Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F  (Read 269177 times)

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #540 on: February 07, 2016, 08:21:00 PM »
Sanae is actually a really good damage dealer subbing Gambler only for double mp cost; she has very high mp regen after she can max her passive, and her moves are very cheap to start with, so it's not even hard. (This will be a non-option after the gambler nerf, though. She's still pretty alright afterwards, but not particularly compelling; you'd do it I guess if you wanted the family synergy but not her support, or just really liked offensive Sanae.)

*blink*

I got it! Youmu needs Grand Incantation as a skill to buff her damage so that she can hit harder(she'll be using concentrate every other turn, so it makes sense). Would that work?
This... would actually be really nice, yeah. -Really- nice. Works for her sort of suggested build gimmick perfectly and fixes the damage part up with no fuss. It'd just need a rename, which wouldn't be the first time someone in the game has the same ability with a different name slapped on.
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jaxter0987

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #541 on: February 07, 2016, 09:16:49 PM »
Its pretty funny when you think about it.... Kanako, a contender for quite possibly the best bulky attacker in the game, has Majesty to gain 6% buffs every turn for free while Youmu has to jump through hoops to make Meikyo Shisui gain 12% every two turns.

Kanako also comes with more balanced Elemental Affinities and Status Resistances, more useful spells (targetting DEF while being a MAG attack, inflicting Heavy, debuffing ATK and MAG), and stronger passives at the cost of lower SPD and level up rate.

Its not exactly fair to compare Youmu to the best of the best, but she doesn't even come remotely close to Kanako when it comes to being a bulky attacker.

Grand Incantation would be absolutely perfect. "Lore" wise, she could be like one of those swordsmen that excel at attacking while unsheathing her sword.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #542 on: February 07, 2016, 10:39:11 PM »
Youmu in-canon tends to intensely concentrate or somesuch before doing a huge attack in her danmaku spells, anyway.

But yeah, Kanako is pretty intense. She's got an amazing endless corridor skill too and can also benefit more from the family synergy, so she'll continue to be awesome. Team Moriya is pretty sweet long-term... and yeah, probably a contender for making one use offensive Sanae since her buffs aren't particularly compelling in the end.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #543 on: February 07, 2016, 11:28:08 PM »
Quote
What are you using for her Main Equip instead? Orb of Eartihin and Jogurt Doll are pretty easy MP recovery equips...

Primal Armor or First Aid Kit. They help defensively.

Quote
Huh? But... if you're using regular attacks, her damage is going to be abysmal; not even close to being worth activating Meikyo Shisui (it's nice, it's not god. Monk+Strategist puts you at 100% forever which is sweet, but if you're normal attacking what's the point of having those buffs?).

It isn't abysmal really. Regular attacks are 100% atk - 50% def I believe. 2 regular attacks is like 200% atk - 100% defense, that is equivalent to a spell card that Youmu has.
Since regular attacks have a delay to 70%, less if you get the Monk skill. It is very easy and very fast to buff her to stats. However, her damage will never be that impressive, but she will be a good switcher, while tanking.

Quote
And... hey, wait a second! If you're concentrating every other turn, you're instantly doing half the damage most other characters can pull off, because you're wasting half of your turns doing the same or less damage than they would. zzzzz. This is why Youmu is bad. If you have to concentrate every other turn, the fact she does the same or less damage as everyone else suddenly turns into doing effectively half their damage. But yeah in end-postgame she'll have a huge damage up to make up for that... albiet it's gimmicky so she'll still be meh, but, vastly more usable. (Plus in postgame you can sorta fix her MND and make her tankier. Or just tweak her HP harder for regen, but.)

Yes, I am aware of that. But it requires an MP recovery item, which is no go. If her MP recovery gets buffed, at least you can mix and match a bit more. It brings her from bad to mediocre.

Quote
Its not exactly fair to compare Youmu to the best of the best, but she doesn't even come remotely close to Kanako when it comes to being a bulky attacker.

Grand Incantation would be absolutely perfect. "Lore" wise, she could be like one of those swordsmen that excel at attacking while unsheathing her sword.

Yeah, she needs something, because looking at the new skill set, I don't think it will help her past being bad.
She's really hard to use right now and the best path I took was to just make her a tanky normal attacker and I can't even use any sub classes that power up normal attacks that messes with her MP, because she needs it to trigger Meikyo Shisui.
They could buff Desperation, because she's pretty nice with desperation on or a stronger desperation.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #544 on: February 08, 2016, 12:00:37 AM »
It isn't abysmal really. Regular attacks are 100% atk - 50% def I believe. 2 regular attacks is like 200% atk - 100% defense, that is equivalent to a spell card that Youmu has.
Since regular attacks have a delay to 70%, less if you get the Monk skill. It is very easy and very fast to buff her to stats. However, her damage will never be that impressive, but she will be a good switcher, while tanking.
Yeah, it's equivalent to her worst attack, at 40% delay, or 46% after monk. High DEF influence gets increasingly problematic the farther you get in the game, which will have her hitting pretty depressing numbers against many of the bosses; generally the ones that are more problematic fights in the first place. And, yeah, you can sub Warrior to make them a good chunk better (Not that Meikyo Shisui or her tanking abilities are really worth it... in postgame with Blood Sword for draining normals maybe) if you have a Magician cast Magic Circuit on her now and again.

<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

jaxter0987

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #545 on: February 08, 2016, 12:43:58 AM »
But yeah, Kanako is pretty intense. She's got an amazing endless corridor skill too and can also benefit more from the family synergy, so she'll continue to be awesome. Team Moriya is pretty sweet long-term... and yeah, probably a contender for making one use offensive Sanae since her buffs aren't particularly compelling in the end.
I don't know, two of her Endless Corridor skills further push support / tank Sanae though. And while Miracle Fruit is worse than Duplicating Chant, its not THAT much worse plus if post game has taught us anything, its that having multiple people that can buff is a VERY good idea.

I should get back to exploring the Plus Disk Trial...

Lollipop

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #546 on: February 08, 2016, 01:16:35 AM »
Is there an easy way to get Great Tree's Leafs? I've spent the last 30 minutes and haven't gotten one. nevermind
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 01:22:56 AM by Lollipop »
Touhou 1CCS:
Hard: LLS, EoSD(NB), PCB(NB), IN, MoF, TD, DDC(NB), LoLK
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Extra: LLS, EoSD, PCB(Extra&Phantasm), IN, MoF, SA, DDC, LoLK
Current Focus: 1cc SA Hard, or an Extra

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #547 on: February 08, 2016, 02:41:49 AM »
So, I've managed to beat this malignant eater's shadow with a yuyuko/reisen combo. And my Kasen is hitting the next shadow wasp for like 1 damage with it 2 shotting Komachi like nothing. What do I do to beat these?

Also for post game content, generally what's the Library level for you guys?

Edit: And according to the wiki, the dungeon part has 9 stones of awakening, which are floor 5 then 7-15. Is it missing one of these?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 02:48:07 AM by seakill »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #548 on: February 08, 2016, 02:52:46 AM »
Library levels sorta vary because some characters (byakuren) are a lot more expensive than others. But generally you should be sorta close to your level. Or well past it, on more important or cheaper leveling characters.

The first few bosses and the last few are the hardest, when it comes to the refights. The paralyzing wasp is also DTH'able, so you should probably just do that. After that most of them aren't a huge deal; the main issue is you have to get your buffs up IMMEDIATELY because it's the difference between handling attacks fine and your tanks getting one-shot (especially so on poison wasp). Even properly prepared, yes, it will do that; it's fine once you can get started without big losses. After that, the only thing I think you can DTH is the Glowing Azure Giant, and it isn't actually all that vulnerable; but if you just set up speed-build yuyuko in the front with Reisen and spam gameover-resets until it works, it won't take long.

Also, use Hina. Like, against every boss; all of them. For Biorhythm. You can make due with other debuffers instead if you've got several ones in your party, but Hina will make everything easier. Postgame can be very cruel without those debuffs and buffs up; even if you're surviving, people who don't do well at piercing def/mnd (whether through formula or sheer atk/mag) can struggle to hit decent numbers on a lot of fights, even good attackers like Kasen, and most bosses can have their offensive stats lowered after a few casting attempts which will make a world of difference.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Lollipop

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #549 on: February 08, 2016, 03:19:09 AM »
Does anyone have any tips for Komachi? (I could just grind, but I want the level reward bonus)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 03:53:42 AM by Lollipop »
Touhou 1CCS:
Hard: LLS, EoSD(NB), PCB(NB), IN, MoF, TD, DDC(NB), LoLK
Lunatic: EoSD, PCB, DDC, LoLK
Extra: LLS, EoSD, PCB(Extra&Phantasm), IN, MoF, SA, DDC, LoLK
Current Focus: 1cc SA Hard, or an Extra

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #550 on: February 08, 2016, 05:45:13 AM »
This... would actually be really nice, yeah. -Really- nice. Works for her sort of suggested build gimmick perfectly and fixes the damage part up with no fuss. It'd just need a rename, which wouldn't be the first time someone in the game has the same ability with a different name slapped on.
Grand Incantation would be absolutely perfect. "Lore" wise, she could be like one of those swordsmen that excel at attacking while unsheathing her sword.

Well, I'm glad that I thought of it.

Does anyone have any tips for Komachi? (I could just grind, but I want the level reward bonus)

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Characters/Character-Building_Suggestions
This should help you out a bit.
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

jaxter0987

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #551 on: February 08, 2016, 07:18:12 AM »
He wanted tips on how to beat the Komachi fight, not on how to build Komachi.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Dungeons/3F#Komachi_Onozuka

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #552 on: February 08, 2016, 08:12:39 AM »
He wanted tips on how to beat the Komachi fight, not on how to build Komachi.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Dungeons/3F#Komachi_Onozuka

Oh... Oops.  :blush: :blush: :blush:

At least the reward for beating her is worth it, as Komachi is one of the best characters in the whole roster...
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

jester147

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #553 on: February 08, 2016, 12:05:38 PM »
Progress update: got 1 million money now, and proceed to sink it to library points, and realized that I almost never invested in library points. From 1 million money down to 100k money.

Even then...

Spoiler:
The Great "C" are still very terrifying to fight. Even with debuffs on, they can shred anyone with their MND ignoring attack, and also Black Universe. Black Universe and that attack is guaranteed to kill my tanks. Also because of Black Universe, Komachi is not the tank for this. Other than that, having to deal with 5 of them at once is too terrifying. Seems like I can't beat them.

On the other note...
Spoiler:
The wiki said The Great "C" needed 2 formidable enemies' shadow to pass, but when I reached the rock, it said it gives way after pressing a switch... Is this a bug or am I missing something? Funny thing is I never did boss rush until after this.

EDIT: Ignore this, I got around it somehow.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 06:50:32 PM by jester147 »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #554 on: February 08, 2016, 12:18:18 PM »
Library levels sorta vary because some characters (byakuren) are a lot more expensive than others. But generally you should be sorta close to your level. Or well past it, on more important or cheaper leveling characters.

The first few bosses and the last few are the hardest, when it comes to the refights. The paralyzing wasp is also DTH'able, so you should probably just do that. After that most of them aren't a huge deal; the main issue is you have to get your buffs up IMMEDIATELY because it's the difference between handling attacks fine and your tanks getting one-shot (especially so on poison wasp). Even properly prepared, yes, it will do that; it's fine once you can get started without big losses. After that, the only thing I think you can DTH is the Glowing Azure Giant, and it isn't actually all that vulnerable; but if you just set up speed-build yuyuko in the front with Reisen and spam gameover-resets until it works, it won't take long.

Also, use Hina. Like, against every boss; all of them. For Biorhythm. You can make due with other debuffers instead if you've got several ones in your party, but Hina will make everything easier. Postgame can be very cruel without those debuffs and buffs up; even if you're surviving, people who don't do well at piercing def/mnd (whether through formula or sheer atk/mag) can struggle to hit decent numbers on a lot of fights, even good attackers like Kasen, and most bosses can have their offensive stats lowered after a few casting attempts which will make a world of difference.

I've never used Hina since I liked reisen more lol. So she's more effective as a debuffer?

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #555 on: February 08, 2016, 12:55:41 PM »
Hina's debuffs are more accurate than Reisen's (even when accounting for Reisen's passive... I think.), hit the entire field at once (Granted, this includes your party, but as long as you get Warding Away Bad Luck and maybe the Hexer subclass's defense thing, it's not that bad, really) and with the Hexer's Strengthening passive you're looking at about -40% to a stat if the debuff lands. Or -33% without. Reisen is -20% or -16% and single target.

And perhaps even more importantly, Hina is -really tanky-, especially if you dump a first aid kit on her for her HP, but even without, she has very high MND and moderately nice DEF, wheras Reisen is fairly liable to die. The only real tradeoff is if you build her as a tank she doesn't do damage, but the debuffs are ridiculous.

...Reisen can pretty much cover it for single target bosses if your attackers have debuffs on the side and you make sure not to lose her, though.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Shadowlupus

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #556 on: February 08, 2016, 04:07:12 PM »
I'm thinking of making a separate page for an overview of the whoie 11F - 16F extra areas, giving information like the rest of the Stone of Awakening and some noteworthy enemies.

So, I wanted to ask if we should move the extra bosses (Cookie, Second Sun, Desire demon, Culex) information to this extra area page or just leave them as that.


Also, in LoT2, Reisen is given a huge buff in her defensive stats. She is actually as tanky as Alice now, and that's not even taking her self-buff into accounts.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 05:15:32 PM by Kageshirou »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #557 on: February 08, 2016, 05:40:38 PM »
I've been sitting and finding my last stone of awakening in the main game for 3 hours now.  So sad :( I currently have 10 stones, with 1 from the post game area but I can't find the bloody 1 stone left with like every single tile explored from floor 5-15. //rant

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #558 on: February 08, 2016, 06:58:58 PM »
I'm thinking of making a separate page for an overview of the whoie 11F - 16F extra areas, giving information like the rest of the Stone of Awakening and some noteworthy enemies.

So, I wanted to ask if we should move the extra bosses (Cookie, Second Sun, Desire demon, Culex) information to this extra area page or just leave them as that.
I'd say move them. It'd be weird to have the whole overview (don't forget 8-10F!) and then "go look at this other page for the boss". Much simpler to have everything together

Otaku

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #559 on: February 08, 2016, 11:20:20 PM »
I've been wondering if I could get some help with the F12 Tenshi fight.

My party is the following:
Mokou
Hexer Hina
Enchanter Keine
Patchouli
Eirin
Kasen
Reisen
Nitori
Satori
Minoriko
Komachi
and Kaguya

Is there someone I should put in instead of someone else, or should I keep my party as it is?

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #560 on: February 09, 2016, 12:45:44 AM »
Rumia/Satori combo can do some massive damage on that fight, like, enough that with a bit of setup tweaking you can effortlessly cheese it. But, just throwing her in to replace a non-effective attacker with minimal investment into her MAG is fine too. Honestly, I don't know much about how to do the fight normally, because opening up with Satori/Rumia and characters to buff their mag/speed gave me enough DPS that Tenshi never got to use an unscripted move, none of which were attacks. Parsee's passive DRK boost can also help if you want to go that route, and in any case Kaguya should do big damage as well; Reisen and Eirin have potential due to piercing def/mnd and having her weakness but you'll need to apply debuffs first if you're gonna use them.

And no, Reisen still isn't a particularly durable character. She's not glassy by any means as she has fair stats, but her def is fairly eh and her hp/mnd are only just good enough to be pretty alright. In any case she won't even remotely compare to a character built for tanking. I mean, I guess you could build Reisen for durability as she Discards, but if you do that it seems like a waste to not use Hina instead; Reisen's biggest upside is actually doing damage at the same time. (Alice has about 1 base more def and 1.5 base more mnd along with huge EVA, so I'd say she's fairly more tanky, although it's true that Reisen isn't terribly far behind; she's similar if synergy is up. Alice's EVA potential is pretty sweet, though.)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 01:04:55 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Shadowlupus

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #561 on: February 09, 2016, 02:09:05 AM »
I've been sitting and finding my last stone of awakening in the main game for 3 hours now.  So sad :( I currently have 10 stones, with 1 from the post game area but I can't find the bloody 1 stone left with like every single tile explored from floor 5-15. //rant

http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/

If that's so, I think you should compare your map with the one on the Japanese wiki.

Go here. First, you need the Google Translate function to render it in English. I think the translation of one of the menu should say "Dungeon cheat". Find that  one,click it and select the floor number. It will tell you all about the map and the item's location.

I guess you miss the last 2 stones on Floor 13 and 14 since both are quite tricky to find. You have to drop down onto one of the holes from the above floor.

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #562 on: February 09, 2016, 02:41:44 AM »
I'm thinking of making a separate page for an overview of the whoie 11F - 16F extra areas, giving information like the rest of the Stone of Awakening and some noteworthy enemies.

So, I wanted to ask if we should move the extra bosses (Cookie, Second Sun, Desire demon, Culex) information to this extra area page or just leave them as that.


Also, in LoT2, Reisen is given a huge buff in her defensive stats. She is actually as tanky as Alice now, and that's not even taking her self-buff into accounts.
I disagree with moving them. I'd rather have the bosses listed in the floor they're actually found on.

If you must do an overview of the extra areas, put two overviews on the extra areas, one for floors above on floor 13 and one for floors below on floor 11.

Actually, now that I think about it some more, I'd actually much rather just have a floor overview for each extra area floor on the floor itself. Is there a way to spoiler tag on the wiki?

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #563 on: February 09, 2016, 04:45:17 AM »
Wouldn't it be better to just have them in "postgame __F" as if it's a seperate floor than force postgame info onto the earlygame page? This has already been done for the postgame Shadow bosses, after all. I think it's pretty silly as it is that the postgame superbosses are listed on the floors so you instantly see them the first time you open the wiki page to peek at the normalgame boss stats. Spoiler-hiding entire sections of info sounds like a pain and it'd be for no real purpose, if it's even possible.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 04:47:53 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #564 on: February 09, 2016, 06:09:00 AM »
I was only talking about spoiling the overview of the extra areas. The boss info can stay where it is just like its done in the LoT1 pages.

But you're right, putting the info in a spoiler is excessive. I don't know it feels like the current Postgame page already does enough. Its not like we're writing a walkthrough on how progress in the extra areas. Its just supposed to be a little summary of what to expect (notable enemies for example).

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #565 on: February 09, 2016, 01:09:58 PM »
http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/

If that's so, I think you should compare your map with the one on the Japanese wiki.

Go here. First, you need the google Translate function to render it in English. I think the translation of one of the menu should say "Dungeon cheat". Find that  one,click it and select the floor number. It will tell you all about the map and the item's location.

I guess you miss the last 2 stones on Floor 13 and 14 since both are quite tricky to find. You have to drop down onto one of the holes from the above floor.

Wow, thanks a whole bunch!! I've found it! The one i was missing was on the 13th floor where you have to drop consecutively for 2 times from F15 down to F13. Thanks again for the information  :]

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #566 on: February 10, 2016, 08:07:20 AM »
What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.

I'm on floor 19-20 btw.

bit of a late response but I've had really good results with Aya + Patchouli (or optionally Kaguya).  Patchouli hits hard enough to kill a lot of enemies instantly if you hit a weakness and she regenerates MP every turn if you have the appropriate passive/slot.  MP for Aya is a bit of an issue but you can have her Concentrate and then pass a turn to Patchouli before any enemies act most of the time.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #567 on: February 10, 2016, 09:23:03 PM »
bit of a late response but I've had really good results with Aya + Patchouli (or optionally Kaguya).  Patchouli hits hard enough to kill a lot of enemies instantly if you hit a weakness and she regenerates MP every turn if you have the appropriate passive/slot.  MP for Aya is a bit of an issue but you can have her Concentrate and then pass a turn to Patchouli before any enemies act most of the time.

 I think both patchy and kaguya is a bit too slow for the job. Unless I find a way to pump a tons of speed the enemy will 1 shot them most of the time :/

Unless yeah you're using aya so you get to hit first.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #568 on: February 11, 2016, 12:02:03 AM »
SPD Build Aya can be pretty silly, yeah. Considering she has a 100% go-first-turn passive and that, yeah, if you build for speed (and she's got a passive spd buff too) you move pretty blindingly fast, it's just not usually worth building a character specifically for SPD. If you sub her Guardian for efficient concentration that'd go pretty well for randoms regardless of your party.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #569 on: February 11, 2016, 01:58:54 PM »
Hello everyone, I'm mariarthas, and i have a little problem and wanted to know if someone could help me.

Yesterday i was playing Labyrinth of Touhou 2 all normal and saved the file before going to sleep.

But today i opened the game and the save file was like "empty" like i never saved a game in that slot.

Has someone got something similar or knows the solution?

Any help will be appreciated.

Sorry for my bad English =P