Puzzle and Final Fantasy Thread XXV: Throw your Gil at the SOMETHING ELSE

[Espadas]

For the non-IRC crowd:

Thanks Jq, i'll have warm nightmares tonight after seeing THAT.....  :V

I was wondering ccool.... i have zero experience with your kind of team so this might be silly but have you considered A.I&I in place of Beyzul?

You lose that phat x4 and a bit of HP but in exchange you get quite a few upsides..... would the damage of your team be somewhat similar with I&I's active? Because if you still manage to ohko anything she would probably be better....

[commandercool]

Thanks Jq, i'll have warm nightmares tonight after seeing THAT.....  :V

I was wondering ccool.... i have zero experience with your kind of team so this might be silly but have you considered A.I&I in place of Beyzul?

You lose that phat x4 and a bit of HP but in exchange you get quite a few upsides..... would the damage of your team be somewhat similar with I&I's active? Because if you still manage to ohko anything she would probably be better....

Well, first off I don't own I&I, so that's not even an option. But even if I did they wouldn't be fully ideal.

What makes Beyzul special is that his "enhance" stacks with other enhance effects. It's rare for actives like that to be sble to stack in PAD. Assuming I have dual super Gabriel leads, my attack looks like this:

With Beyzul I have 1.5 (friend Gabe)x4 (Beyzul)x2 (Sun Quan enhance) for a total of a 12x total multiplier.

With I&I I have 1.5 (my Gabriel)x 1.5 (friend Gabriel) x2 (I&I enhance) for a total of 4.5x.

So because Beyzul's multiplier is so much larger than other enhances in the game and stacks with other actives in a way that basically nothing else does, it's possible to get much larger numbers with him than it would be with I&I in the same slot. I've used normal, non-Awoken I&I friends before and have learned that havibg two non-stacking enhances is not that useful on this team. Because Reine is required to do huge damage it just rarely comes up that I NEED to burst close enough together that I have time to stall her back up but don't have time to stall for Sun Quan. Granted even one turn of haste might occasionally be a life-saver when talking about a skill with a five turn cooldown, but that's another one of those things where the number of spots in the game where it matters is very few right now.

So there are probably dungeons where a 12x max multiplier isn't required, and in those cases I could hypothetically replace Beyzul with I&I to get more rows, recovery, and skillboosts. But if that's the case then I can't think of a dungeon  where anything I&I brings to the table would actually be required over just a stat stick. I do occasionally swap out Beyzul for something with more skillboosts so that I can handle certain opening floors (the two examples I can think of are Hera Rush and Izanami) but in those cases I've always used black Metatron and it's never been a problem even though most of what she contributes to the team is wasted. And since I&I has only a single skillboost to Metatron's three they actually wouldn't reliably work in even that role.

[Espadas]

This was supposed to be a cakewalk: a no-rcv, mostly dark dungeon should be steamrolled blind by A.Kirin...... it turned into a to-the-last-skill battle that i wish i had recorded


I don't think i ever had so much ridiculous bad luck in a single run, and that is saying something..... i have to thank the OPness of A.Kirin and commandercool's willingness to skill her up a bit that i managed to 0-stone it.
One detail that still boggle my mind: i literally got zero skyfalls for the entire run. ZERO from start to finish in a no-rcv  :X

"Ok, lets go"...... 2 wood orbs on starter board, run already over if Helldark uses Flash Bind  :X
thanks God my only max-skilled LKali was up on first turn..... LKali's active OHKO

floor 2.... pre-emptive Hell Howl = no activable board. Try to clear as much as possible but i botch one match and i'm left with 2 jammers.
Death Bite = another no activable board. Clear again and eat poison match, leaving me with around 10k HP.
Death Bite = activable board! OHKO but i don't want to risk matching the poison, so from now on all my boards will have 2 jammers AND 3 poisons floating around

floor 3 and 4 everything decide to pop up on 1-turn, but here i have my one lucky strike and get activable boards both time.....

floor 5.... Demonic Stare = all subs bound for 4 turns and no activable board..... Game over?.... HERE COMES CCOOL TO THE RESCUE!  :] His Kirin is up just in time to clear 3 binds, one round to clear the last one AND get an activable board then OHKO

floor 6.... I will be your opponent = 3 more poison orbs and no activable board.... Game over?.... MY SECOND UN-SKILLED LKALI IS UP!  Eat shit Luci!

floor 7.... "Ok, finally a normal activable board without trash and i have Athena, Verche and my Kirin up".... then i take a closer look at the board: 2 light orbs, 1 dark orb.  :X
Paranoia kicks in : "It won't be enough, Blasphemy will fuck me up.....It won't be enough, Blasphemy will fuck me up....It won't be enough, Blasphemy will fuck me up...."
"Hello Espa, this is your rational mind. You remember that A.Kirin can clear 3 binds, right? Try to guess how many turns does Blasphemy binds...."
.
.
.
Mephistopheles survive with basically one pixel of life  ---> Blasphemy ----> A.Kirin ----> "UP YOURS BASTARDS!"

Never again, RNG..... never again please....

[trancehime]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJbe9uwaoCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvfh5D89Z8M

Recorded doge farming videos with 2 team types.

[commandercool]

So far this rare monster carnival has been a near-total bust for me. It's been giving me like 50% mythical beasts. Fuck mythical beasts, they are trash. I know one of each is grudgingly acceptable for Awoken Indian materials, but I don't want seven of each.

[The Greatest Dog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJbe9uwaoCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvfh5D89Z8M

Recorded doge farming videos with 2 team types.

for some reason I thought you meant you were farming using Big Dog
but I guess this is acceptable, too

[trancehime]

for some reason I thought you meant you were farming using Big Dog
but I guess this is acceptable, too

I sadly do not own Big Doge

[Espadas]

What makes Beyzul special is that his "enhance" stacks with other enhance effects. It's rare for actives like that to be sble to stack in PAD. Assuming I have dual super Gabriel leads, my attack looks like this:

With Beyzul I have 1.5 (friend Gabe)x4 (Beyzul)x2 (Sun Quan enhance) for a total of a 12x total multiplier.

With I&I I have 1.5 (my Gabriel)x 1.5 (friend Gabriel) x2 (I&I enhance) for a total of 4.5x.

So because Beyzul's multiplier is so much larger than other enhances in the game and stacks with other actives in a way that basically nothing else does, it's possible to get much larger numbers with him than it would be with I&I in the same slot.

This is a very interesting point, something i admit i never noticed before. I always took Beyzul and Co.'s actives at face value, a "sacrifice your leader's cool bonuses for a few turns to burst something down" deal.
But if you consider them like a passive, STACKABLE "enhance" they look quite better and more flexible in controlling how much damage you want to dish out.

I guess the sticking point with Beyzul is evaluating when to use him without putting your team at excessive risk in the next turns?
The fact that your team have very high HP/RCV even when using him probably gives you a bit of a safety net, right?

for some reason I thought you meant you were farming using Big Dog
but I guess this is acceptable, too

Same here  :V

So far this rare monster carnival has been a near-total bust for me. It's been giving me like 50% mythical beasts. Fuck mythical beasts, they are trash. I know one of each is grudgingly acceptable for Awoken Indian materials, but I don't want seven of each.

While i'm getting a lot of mythical beasts too, the real "star" for me has always been Fire Sprite, Parrot.... Seriously, my Yamato Takeru is at slvl 3 just with the Parrots i always get during rare monster carnivals.
And of course today's rolls were.... parrot + cerberus 

Btw, does anyone here know exactly WHY Phoenix is currently the only one with any value, even if only as awoken material?

(inb4 Unicorn/Cerberus required for Indra/Vritra Awokens....)

[OverlordChirei]

Btw, does anyone here know exactly WHY Phoenix is currently the only one with any value, even if only as awoken material?

Because Awoken Shiva is simply just that strong. There is no other reason.

[commandercool]

This is a very interesting point, something i admit i never noticed before. I always took Beyzul and Co.'s actives at face value, a "sacrifice your leader's cool bonuses for a few turns to burst something down" deal.
But if you consider them like a passive, STACKABLE "enhance" they look quite better and more flexible in controlling how much damage you want to dish out.

I guess the sticking point with Beyzul is evaluating when to use him without putting your team at excessive risk in the next turns?
The fact that your team have very high HP/RCV even when using him probably gives you a bit of a safety net, right?

Precisely. It's fairly rare to be in a situation where swapping into Beyzul puts me at significant risk. One of the biggest sticking points for him has been, and still is, something like Threedia following or preceding a floor where I also have to burst. Anything that consistently attacks so as to break my 100% HP, is bulky enough that it's hard to burst in situations where I have to conserve actives or don't have all actives available, and insta-kills me after a certain time passes are sometimes hard to work around. Because as relatively low-risk as swapping into Beyzul is, his leader skill is still very fragile. So if it's a matter of a time limit and not just straight-up tanking he can be hard to work with sometimes.

[The Greatest Dog]

There's still some value in Beyzul's multiplier "only" being "full HP, water only". While you could say that Hathor has a comparable ATK multiplier and considerable bulk of her own, her color requirement is -really- inhibiting.

When you get to Beyzul, nothing is stopping you from Gabriel>Reine>ROW ROW ROW YOUR BOAT

As a result, the damage ceiling is surprisingly high. Similar to how I could easily output millions of damage with One True Dog's 12.25x2 versus old Kirin's x25.

If I was running Sachi Bros X Awoken I&I, I would -gladly- use Beyzul to row it up when I burst instead of trying to work out the combos for Sachi Bros. If we could readily replace our friend leads, that would be cool, but Beyzul can't replace everyone. :c

[commandercool]

Yeah, when being conservative with my actives isn't an issue there's very little in the game outside of resolve (usually not an issue anyway for bulky teams) that survives a Beyzul burst. His damage puts most Awoken Ra bursts to shame, and it's only going to get better as the Gabriel and Reine buffs roll out. And, you know, Beyzul GETS AN ULTIMATE. Rows OP. Even now, in a world of gratuitous triple prongs and x100 rainbow leads, rows are hard to beat.

It's worth noting that large combo shields (6, or I guess more than that in the rare event that they go higher) can be rough on row teams. But there are few, if any enemies that open with big combo shields and can't be safely stalled on by one Gabriel, so it's more of an annoyance than anything. And having Snow White over Ruka should help with that since being able to pick between single and double orbchanges gives added flexibility.

[Jq1790]

Heh, I always find it interesting reading your stuff, ccool, since I also main water rows but in a different fashion.  I sometimes wish I had some RCV boosting to work with as well as soem extra HP here and there sicne I'm still able to be instagibbed by a lot of things' normal moves on Mythical/Legend Plus if they happen to be fire or light.  Plussing will remedy this to a SIGNIFICANT degree, but even then I'll only be pulling like 27kish HP which is pretty rough to try and eat big hits with if I can't delay an enemy or just facetank them with resists.

Then again I'm also running on 12.25x or 1x, minus the effect of row enhances, so there's that as well.   

Also re: combo shields, sometimes I just have to deal with the fact that I can't row it up against some enemies reliably.  I try to use "cascades" (using the term loosely only because I'm usually not perceptive enough to get multiple layers of them going) to get past that but sometimes it's rather difficult even with that.  Part of it is probably just needing better board manipulation skill though.

[Espadas]

Btw, for the water users here: if you need a leader to partner up with, i do have a few decent ones (although not plussed). Ask and i'll put them up 

Here is what i have available (all max levelled and max awoken):

A.Karin (with +59 eggs)
Andromeda (max skilled)
Sarasvati
Reine (max skilled)

....and a Blodin max awoken but lv 47  :V And as soon as i can evolve Aegir i'll have a max awoken A.I&I too (still around lv 30)

[Dr Rawr]

some how no stoned paradise of the holy beasts. also with the extra dong for supergirl think replacing DQ would be a good idea?

[Suikama]

lol we esports now http://www.twitch.tv/esl_pad

[Janitor Morgan]

Advancing directly to championships: Phantomace and Lest
Moving to wildcard tournament: Nick and Lukehouse

[Espadas]

Got home too late to follow the stream..... got my own consolation prize:



First attempt ever. 0-stoned Zaerogoo! 

[Suikama]

I stalled over 50 turns just for this shit to happen

[commandercool]

If anybody has any hypermax Ryune friends please send their IDs to me. Turns out those also don't seem to exist because why would they, she's the trashgarbage color that nobody plays. :colbert:

[Jq1790]

I found...one.

User:  ebola
ID:  348,042,236

It's really a shame, since she's freaking GREAT, but alas.

To be fair, she DID just premier in NA recently, so that might be a pretty big factor since she's a 6* GFE and thus among the rarest to pull in the first place.

[trancehime]

If anybody has any hypermax Ryune friends please send their IDs to me. Turns out those also don't seem to exist because why would they, she's the trashgarbage color that nobody plays. :colbert:

Blue's not really a trashgarbage color as of late.

Blue's major problem of "most of the good shit is impossible to get" still remains though.

[commandercool]

This motherfucker really tried my stalling skills. Partly it was just because I had to be weighed down by using I&I instead of a Gabriel like I would prefer, but he could two-shot me with any combination of moves so I had to heal every single turn for the entire fight. That of itself isn't that bad since I had two heartmakers, but I could have easily just slipped up and not healed one turn and died. But I didn't, so good.

I'm not sure what I think of him. I'm inclined to want to say "Of course he's way worse than Lifive, he's blue", but I'm not sure if he is or not. Lifive's two-turn haste seems great, but I'm not sure how to value locking your own orbs. And making ten orbs of types that you know you can use seems decent on a ten-turn timer. If I cared more I would consider making him for use on my Sumire team for 5x4s, but I don't think it will matter that much.

I found...one.

User:  ebola
ID:  348,042,236

It's really a shame, since she's freaking GREAT, but alas.

To be fair, she DID just premier in NA recently, so that might be a pretty big factor since she's a 6* GFE and thus among the rarest to pull in the first place.

Yeah, I found that guy too, but I read his message of "Only add Athena +297" as "I am only adding friends if they're hypermax Athenas". Maybe he meant "I will only add Athenas if they're hypermax" instead, so I guess I should try.

Is the whole series 6*, or did they just arbitrarily make the blue one the chase one again? So yeah, hopefully she'll get more common with time,

Blue's not really a trashgarbage color as of late.

Blue's major problem of "most of the good shit is impossible to get" still remains though.

It's by far the least played color, which makes getting anything done with a blue team way more difficult than it should be. I main blue, I go way out of my way to add people with blue leads, and blue is the least populated color on my friends list BY FAR. And yeah, that's because a lot of blue stuff is just way more rare for no reason, but that basically does make blue the shittiest color. It can be resisted unlike black and white, which already makes it worse than them, but it's also way harder to collect and to find friends for than anything else. Gungho has gone way out of their way to make sure blue is the worst color, regardless of the quality of any specific blue monsters. There's plenty of great stuff in blue, but it doesn't matter that much if nobody can use it because nobody has it.

[Jq1790]

Dragonbounds, which Ryune is a part of, consist of both 5* and 6* cards just like most/all GFE series.

Gadius and Saria are the 5* ones.

Typhon and Ryune are the 6*s because yes.

Water cards are ALMOST always among the 6*s in whatever series they are in for some reason.  Sumire(one of the JP Dragon Callers) is the only 5* water GFE I know of offhand.

EDIT:  Yeah, Sumire's the only 5* water GFE, so good freaking luck to anyone who wants any of the other ones.  Figures that I would like three of the 6* water GFEs now, with the fourth being someone I'd still totally be ok with(three I want being Skuld and BOdin and Ryune, with BSonia bringing up the rear on desire list among the quartet)

[trancehime]

XMAS REM stuff. No Chibis in this REM

https://twitter.com/pad_sexy/status/674160571038621696 echidna
https://twitter.com/pad_sexy/status/674160663061594112 siren
https://twitter.com/pad_sexy/status/674161863135891456 alraune
https://twitter.com/pad_sexy/status/674161987354386432 archangel
https://twitter.com/pad_sexy/status/674162100176982016 lilith

XMAS Healer Girls will have Menace as their AS. Their awakenings are also the same except they have a row (!!!) of their color.

XMAS Echidna LS = Healer HP x2.5, ATK x1.5. After orbs elimination heal RCV x4
XMAS Siren LS = Healer HP/ATK/RCV x1.5. After orbs elimination heal RCV x4
XMAS Alraune LS = Healer HP x1.5, ATK x2.5. After orbs elimination heal RCV x4
XMAS Archangel LS = Healer HP/ATK x2. After orbs elimination heal RCV x4
XMAS Lilith LS = Healer ATK x3. After orbs elimination heal RCV x4

[Moogs Parfait]

Rip me

[Thaws]

Oh my god 3 turn delay for GREEN finally.

Gone are the days where I have to put SQ or Echidna in Bastet team for lv10 Vishnu
Gone are the days where I have to use SQ to deal with Volsungr

I'm so rolling this till I get an xmas Alraune omg.

[OverlordChirei]

Nov 19 00:34:41 <Chirei>   they double dip and release christmas tree protector alraune
Nov 19 00:34:50 <Thaws>   chirei pls
Nov 19 00:34:51 <Chirei>   I would fucking die forever if they just double down me like that

Dec 01 03:30:05 <Thaws>   Guys it's december who's hyped for christmas REM being back
Dec 01 03:30:56 <Chirei>   watch them do a christmas tree alraune and just double dip just to spite me
Dec 01 03:30:58 <Chirei>   i'm waiting
Dec 01 03:33:18 <Aoshi>   gungho pls

*Chirei WAKES THE FUCK UP AT 6AM



SUPER TILT

[Yukarin]

OH MY FUCKING GOD

OH MY FUCKING GOD

THEY'RE SO DAMN ADORABLE OMFGH A;SLDKFJA;SDLKJFA'LSKDJF

[MatsuriSakuragi]

>Predra infestation incoming

Oh nice, farmable MP!

>They're going to be skillup mats

Fuck.