Author Topic: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie  (Read 94278 times)

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2015, 01:44:42 PM »
...really? She's pretty fucking amazing as she is.

mostly the complains I saw were in the AS and the awakenings.

Moreso the AS than the awakenings though. In fact, YamaP tweeted they aimed to make Awoken Kirin friendly to clear Ultimate Arena but they received a lot of negative complains for them so they need to figure out the best way to address them. Personally I felt that gravity + bind clear feels really awkward, especially since it's 10 turn CD. For example, Ame no Uzume healed 4 turns at 8 CD max and provide RCV buff.

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2015, 02:11:06 PM »
mostly the complains I saw were in the AS and the awakenings.

Moreso the AS than the awakenings though. In fact, YamaP tweeted they aimed to make Awoken Kirin friendly to clear Ultimate Arena but they received a lot of negative complains for them so they need to figure out the best way to address them. Personally I felt that gravity + bind clear feels really awkward, especially since it's 10 turn CD. For example, Ame no Uzume healed 4 turns at 8 CD max and provide RCV buff.

I think the greater problem I can see with it over the cd is that, when would you ever need to grav and bind clear at the same time? If you use it for one purpose over the other, then you're forced to fly without it for the remainder. Very awkward indeed.

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #92 on: September 19, 2015, 02:16:29 PM »
I think the greater problem I can see with it over the cd is that, when would you ever need to grav and bind clear at the same time? If you use it for one purpose over the other, then you're forced to fly without it for the remainder. Very awkward indeed.

I just had a heated discussion about this over at PF, it's basically the SQ dilemma but oversized, because at least with SQ it's much more evident: When do I need enhance? When do I need delay? And also the question of, this team, I will use SQ for his Enhance. Or, I use SQ for his delay.

In this situation, the line is much blurred, I think if AS clear 3+ turns it would be easier

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commandercool

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #93 on: September 19, 2015, 02:32:14 PM »
Is it just me or is ultimate Verdandi kind of lame? Not that I'm too disappointed, I don't think the Norns needed a huge buff, that's just pretty uninspired.

Unclear on what I think about Awoken I&I. My first impression is that Gabriel doesn't care about them and their mere existence just made my team worse because now I'm actually going to lose ALL of my I&I friends instead of just 95% of them, but maybe I just need more time to evaluate them.

I just had a heated discussion about this over at PF, it's basically the SQ dilemma but oversized, because at least with SQ it's much more evident: When do I need enhance? When do I need delay? And also the question of, this team, I will use SQ for his Enhance. Or, I use SQ for his delay.

In this situation, the line is much blurred, I think if AS clear 3+ turns it would be easier

As someone who has a hypermax Sun Quan and plays him on like every team, forcthe most part his active is just flexible. You might want euther part of it at different times within the same dungeon, but you usually don't need both. There are exceptions though, like if you want to do a small attack on the first turn of the delay to get a one-turn haste, then kill the enemy on the second turn, or if your attack is low enough (like with Gabe before a leader swap) that you need both turns to kill something.

And worst case scenario if you activate Sun Quan for the enhance and botch your combo, the delay is incidentally there to save you. You might not want both parts of the active 100% of the time, but it's not completely asynergistic by any means.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 02:36:02 PM by commandercool »
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Jq1790

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2015, 02:46:22 PM »
Oh, yeah, I love SQ's dual purposes, it I think is a selling point as opposed to a bad thing, haha.

I hadnt known Kushi's was a super ult.  In that case I'm actually rather excited!  Attacker is a great typing to have wood cards get of course, so giving her the ability to actually hit things and get boosted by GZL amd such is a wonderful thing.
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trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #95 on: September 19, 2015, 03:05:49 PM »
And worst case scenario if you activate Sun Quan for the enhance and botch your combo, the delay is incidentally there to save you. You might not want both parts of the active 100% of the time, but it's not completely asynergistic by any means.

That's the thing though. Bind clear as a defensive option is way way WAY more limited than delay lmao

It's not the same, you would use A.Kirin gravity for boss burst, but then if you have to use Bind Clear to not die, you lose that boss burst basically indefinitely cause 10 CD is too long to be stalled effectively; but if you enter the dungeon with just A.Kirin to clear binds, then you are already resigned to give up Gravity in the first place.

Unliked SQ's active skill, A.Kirin's AS has only illusion of choice

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commandercool

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2015, 03:20:20 PM »
That seems like an odd distinction to make. Sun Quan doesn't really give "choice" either. You either need one or both parts of his skill in a situation or you don't. There's not much to choose. For him you're much more likely to be in a situation where both parts of the skill matter than Kirin is, but I guess I don't understand what choice you're referring to.

That said, I do think Kirin's skill is excellent. Bind clear may be situational, but when it matters it really matters. Even if you assume the two halves of her skill are mutually exclusive, which they aren't quite, having two strong options means she has a useful tool for two situations. That's great. And I don't know a ton about Kirin teams, but if I'm not mistaken she doesn't typically draw all of her colors from bind-immune sources, which makes bind clear much more relevant than it is on Ra.
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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2015, 03:31:26 PM »
Case one. Mephisto binds gods below 75% HP, so if you have a bind clear it's a free turn. But, you're likely to use Kirin gravity to get to that point in the first place...

Kagoogs binds devils below 75%, Zhuge Liang only does his team bind when he's already very low on HP (such that a gravity doesn't even do very much).

Can we... give Kirin a haste so an actual bind clear can do something sooner? A damage reduction? A light orb enhance? We can give her a row-heal instead of her bind clear active and that's much better as a cleric than before. :/

They also removed one of her light orb enhances, so that's not nearly as spammable as before.

So can we talk about I&I as a sub for uvouvo Sachi bros? Both physical types, both have doubledongs, I&I doubles water attack for a turn and covers dark? Hell yes.

I'm sure they can find some way to get a light mob in there. :V
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 03:47:15 PM by Fpurin Fanatic »

hyorinryu

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2015, 03:53:20 PM »
...really? She's pretty fucking amazing as she is.

What's next, complaining that 5 stones and 5 pys aren't enough?

I really think those people need to just learn to shut up and take what they get sometimes I mean holy crap.  She's always been a mini-resist to most/all statuses...plus I think her LS is plenty fine.

Getting past whiny people for a bit though...I wonder how Freyja is gonna be.  I like the LSs, that stat set will be pretty great.

Ult Noah is pretty good I think, but I'll have to think to decide if I wanna invest in her given all the other water stuff I already HAVE.

Kushi gets even better which I like, but given her first ult was full of extra Awakes she'll prob lose em which makes that a no sell if it's the case.  I dontt lead with her so the LS boost wont help me.

Overall cool stuff I think!
'
Isis and  the other Chinese have had off color enhances. Does that mean it would have been alright if they kept them. The mini-resists never really did that much. Sure it was nice when they bailed you out, but you still had to play like they weren't there.  This  feels less like an Awoken ult and more like a side one tbh.  Compared to the other ults, this one is more work for less reward.


Kind of annoyed that Awoken I&I isn't healer. Cool art though.  I like the Izanagi ult, but  it would be nice if he had something over Kanna.

*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #99 on: September 19, 2015, 05:20:58 PM »
I was hoping for Ult Noah to be Goemon tier but this is ehhhh

Also wtf why are Ama, Okuni and Izanagi split ults but Kushi and Shotas super ults???


Also if only Kushi gained an extra skill lock resist then I could run her perfectly on Ra Dragon and I could forget about Indra bluhhh

Oh hey Awoken Thor has two and I have thor and...

HE'S NOT A GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

HOW CAN THOR, GOD OF FUCKING THUNDER, NOT BE A GOD


lmao the AoT cards are a spoiler
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 06:12:13 PM by Suikama »

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #100 on: September 19, 2015, 06:36:17 PM »



well that certainly happened

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2015, 07:04:58 PM »
This gave me a lesson. Look at the damage numbers before going into the dungeon...
Died the first time against Osiris, when skyfall droped him below 30% and he oneshot me.


Eat that board!

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2015, 07:14:08 PM »
Man it's kind of sad that the Awoken Norse still have strictly worse actives than Kanna despite the fact that they're awokens

Also they still have stat awakenings like pls

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #103 on: September 19, 2015, 07:30:58 PM »
ok I did it right this time


Thaws

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #104 on: September 19, 2015, 08:08:16 PM »
Kind of annoyed that Awoken I&I isn't healer. Cool art though.  I like the Izanagi ult, but  it would be nice if he had something over Kanna.

This so much. They had valkyries for uevo mat, but no they went for DQ Hera, What the hell.
LS is like a less restricted sonia 1/2.5/2.5 but who even uses sonia leads anymore.

I'm hyping izanagi, his only thing over Kanna is being L/D, so HATHOR sub. Yay!
scerw blue teams blue healers are ded ;; , I'm gonna invest in a hathor team if they don't screw up her ult.

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2015, 08:28:44 PM »
YamaP probably decided to just throw water into the trash because of Baggi

Chaore

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #106 on: September 19, 2015, 10:10:43 PM »
Man it's kind of sad that the Awoken Norse still have strictly worse actives than Kanna despite the fact that they're awokens

Also they still have stat awakenings like pls

awoken norse's active is a lot stronger because an element is a -huge- pool of cards compared to dragon/god.

their awakenings are still amazing with stat awakenings included, though yes, kinda annoying those are still in

awoken norse are actually pretty fucking baller, probably the best released cards in this set imo

their one weakness is right now there isn't really a hands down match for their LS, but it's still a very good ls in the end, especially as they're strong cards as always

edit: well to rephrase- relevant to the actual builds you'd use each card in, element is a lot more useful tbh :v

some elements only match dragon/god if you include all elements but that'd be extreme nitpicking
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 10:15:07 PM by Chaore »

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #107 on: September 19, 2015, 10:52:10 PM »
dragon/god is still a really really big pool though

they really just need to reduce it to 10 cd so there's no debate on who's better or w/e

most people are just going to end up not using them even though it's just slightly worse just like how everyone is all over Ra but not Horus
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 10:54:15 PM by Suikama »

Chaore

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #108 on: September 19, 2015, 11:08:53 PM »
dragon/god is still a really really big pool though

they really just need to reduce it to 10 cd so there's no debate on who's better or w/e

most people are just going to end up not using them even though it's just slightly worse just like how everyone is all over Ra but not Horus

if it was 10 cd norse would be flat better, ngl

dragon/god is but like half the shit won't want to be on the same team as kanna or as useful for her to boost (like i you know, just mentioned)

like I said, element is a lot more useful of a pool in the end

it's just a plain stronger active from a building perspective so it's really worth the 12 cd

edit: kanna doesn't even actually conflict or fight with most of the norse anyway though suikama

literally, she will not effect their usage. If they don't get used it's because of other reasons such as 'i don't think i need or want an enhance'
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 11:12:09 PM by Chaore »

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #109 on: September 19, 2015, 11:41:55 PM »
Having the same cd mean's it flat out better? So how is 12 cd not flat out worse?

Teambuilding-wise sure but if you have the subs it doesn't matter and Kanna has an optimized haste engine with 4 apocalyse subs while Norse have... Awoken Chinese I guess??

Actually no because 12 turns is too long for an engine to work. You need 10 turns or less for 4 orb change + 2 enhancers.


Also I'm not saying they're bad and obviously they work fine as subs, but being 12 cd means you can't pull off certain stuff which is disappointing and would be easily remedied with a 10 turn buff
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 11:47:03 PM by Suikama »

Thaws

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #110 on: September 19, 2015, 11:50:56 PM »
I can see where Chaore is coming from. This reminds me similarly of when I argued with you about Shiva-dora when it was out.

Basically Awoken Norses are more user-friendly, but caps off at a lower potential.
Kanna's optimal teams are pretty specific and hard to get (herself is hard to get anyways!) but when you have them you're op.

Similar to how Isis and Horus isn't exactly bad but all the high-end players would rather spend more effort and use Ra, because if you put the same amount of effort into Isis or Ra you get more out of Ra.

I was hoping for something with higher potential, and wouldn't mind even if it meant all those blue healers I invested in are useless when I can built a blue physical team that can actually fight back against today's lv8+ enemies. But now I look at this 1/2.5/2.5 LS here and tbh I can probably do more with B/L I&I's 1.35/3/1. You know if the new I&I was healer we could've done 1.35/7.5/2.5 but NOPE. lame

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #111 on: September 19, 2015, 11:54:19 PM »
Similar to how Isis and Horus isn't exactly bad but all the high-end players would rather spend more effort and use Ra, because if you put the same amount of effort into Isis or Ra you get more out of Ra.
most people are just going to end up not using them even though it's just slightly worse just like how everyone is all over Ra but not Horus

also 'hard to get' is kind of a moot point since every card is really the same difficulty to 'get' since it's all just luck based. Like Trance can't get any DKali while I somehow got 2 but could never get Muse who isn't even a godfest card while plenty of other people have him. "statistically' they're harder to get but that doesn't really apply until you pull like thousands of times.

so like one person might get kanna + 4 apos while someone else might get like I&I + 4 karins but the kanna player is just better off because ~balance~
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 12:01:38 AM by Suikama »

Thaws

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #112 on: September 19, 2015, 11:57:01 PM »

welp I got found out I just lazily skimmed through all your posts. :V rip

Oh yea, some people suggested the 2.5x rcv which would usually be overkill might actually is designed with match play mode in mind where you and your partner's hp are combined and you have like 40k+ easily.

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #113 on: September 20, 2015, 12:00:27 AM »
Huh if they're balancing cards for coop mode then uh sure cause I can't really say anything about that yet :V

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #114 on: September 20, 2015, 12:41:29 AM »
wow i just got killed by my battery low warning why

Jq1790

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2015, 01:16:23 AM »
wow i just got killed by my battery low warning why
Because even your phone/tablet/whatever device wants you to die.

I've had this happen before too, having it pop up so I can't see what I'm matching in the middle of moving or it stops me cold.  Super annoying.  Always remember to charge your device if you're gonna do anything of actual difficulty!
If you're a Pazudora player and aren't on #puzzleandlibrarians, come join us!

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #116 on: September 20, 2015, 01:23:28 AM »
I tried looking for a way to turn the warning off but nope thanks Apple

Also my battery is still over 50% wtf???

The Greatest Dog

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #117 on: September 20, 2015, 01:33:44 AM »
... you know, I wouldn't mind pairing up with Awoken Thor if I had no other Big Dog friends.

#bigdogpositivercv

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #118 on: September 20, 2015, 01:40:08 AM »
So uh if the MP shop is supposed to rotate every two weeks, then Neptune Dragon should be out today in NA...

unless of course NA is going to be slower as usual...

don't tell me I'll have to wait till 2016 for Ra Dragon >_>

Jq1790

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 24: Attack On Big Flamie
« Reply #119 on: September 20, 2015, 01:43:23 AM »
 



First 297~!
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