Author Topic: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)  (Read 104597 times)

Chaore

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #720 on: September 03, 2015, 09:54:51 PM »
What was the order of the 300k mons again?  Was it Shivagon-Nepgon-Claire-Odingon-Ragon?

Might see if they just slip her in as a "fond reminder of summer now that fall/winter are here(depending on timing)" or something.  I mean, I am firmly convinced that gunghoNA does not have it out for us so maybe they'll pull some strings to get the bikiniclad Valk to us anyway.  Also keep an ear to whatever the next stream is since I doubt youd be the only one wanting to ask.

Claire was alongside the mp shop dragons, not replacing, same as the monhun cards will be, or I wouldn't even be mentioning this.

I am -slightly- curious if they have it programmed as such in cycles, and they'll only be able to put her in somewhere alongside neptune or odin dragon, but that would be an AWFUL way to program it, especially if more collab monster cards continue to come along. For the system to work for us, they'd have to start learning to reprogram cycles anyway if it's not an additional trigger to show in the monster point shop.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #721 on: September 03, 2015, 09:55:44 PM »
And other signs of resignation and non-chalance.

...no? What are you even talking about?

If I wanted her-- and I still might, I have not decided yet-- believe me I'd be first in line to get her. But there have been developments since this past mess that has been having me rethink what I want to do in the long term, which involves Awoken Tsukuyomi-- and she'd be fine on such a team, but also not entirely what my team concept focuses on, which is bulk, time extends, and dark orb enhances over TPA and raw power. Any position she could fill would be better filled by Pandora at the moment, who I already have and don't need to sink a shitload of MP into. Thus, I am choosing to not blow all of my MP on a whim and someone I'm not entirely sure I super need anymore (definitely want her, god I do) and waiting to see what else may come along that suits my desires better.

I still feel we got shafted and it's still a pretty low thing for GH to do just so they could have rushed an event, but calling my thoughts on the matter resignation and nonchalance when I actually agonize over big decisions like this is pretty unnecessary.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #722 on: September 04, 2015, 02:43:44 AM »
Completely unrelated: I don't want my JP account anymore. It'll just go to waste if I delete it, so if anyone wants it, let me know.

Rank 91
REM/Notable stuff:
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Ronia
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Freyr
Freyja
Sun Quan
Dragon Rider
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sun quan
dqxq
Earth Dragon Swordsman
Dark Dragon Swordsman

Shynpy
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Extreme King Metal Dragon
Devilit
Super King Gold Dragon
Queen Gold Dragon
Present Egg


Plenty of room for growth there, they just need evo mats and cost to run on :v

Jq1790

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #723 on: September 04, 2015, 03:13:59 AM »
So, NA's gotten some new assets.

>Ult ROdin/DIza

>New Batman stuff

>Zha what'sit and the pig thing

Presumably that means not too long til AKarin as well, to complete the set.
If you're a Pazudora player and aren't on #puzzleandlibrarians, come join us!

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #724 on: September 04, 2015, 04:44:53 AM »
Quote from: Suikama three months ago
hey chirei have you cleared extreme endless yet :V

MEDJE MVP



I'll be back with other teams once I get them set up.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 06:09:06 AM by OverlordChirei »

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #725 on: September 04, 2015, 05:27:13 AM »
I'm really digging this new type for the damage numbers, I can actually read it now
Naked expression; purple raspberry flavour

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #726 on: September 04, 2015, 07:26:12 AM »
UPC saying new LS for batmens split ults -

(D/L) Physical+Machine HP and ATK boost by a bit, Dark ATK x4 when HP is full OR HP is less than 50% (Dark version of Gon but boost Phys / Machine)

(D/B Split) Balance+Machine ATK and RCV boost by a bit, Dark ATK x4 when HP is above 80% (Killua but boost Balance/Machine instead Devil/Attacker)

Catwoman AS randomly now generate 5 Red Orbs

Arkham Knight Harley Quinn = Silver Egg


D/L Awakenings:
Dark OE, Bind Resist x2, Dark Row, TPA, SB

D/B Split Awakenings:
Dark OE, TPA x2, Dark Row, SB x2

ult your batmens RIGHT NOW FOR NA
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 07:53:48 AM by tranceHiME »

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #727 on: September 04, 2015, 08:24:14 AM »
[03:57] <Chirei> bruce wayne used his billions of dollars to give NA the MP shop and his ults super quick
[03:57] <Chirei> the hero we all needed

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #728 on: September 04, 2015, 12:49:32 PM »
Dammit I've got crap for dark balanced.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #729 on: September 04, 2015, 02:54:18 PM »
Quick reminder that Fatty Dragon Guerrilla is up today for those who actually care.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #730 on: September 04, 2015, 03:30:05 PM »
harsh discovery

switching haku from D/D to D/B means that suddenly my friday mythical strategy no longer works

losing that one dark element means i can't sweep floor 2 with two dark AoEs o o p s

Jq1790

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #731 on: September 04, 2015, 03:38:50 PM »
Dammit I've got crap for dark balanced.
EVERYBODY has crap for dark balanced because GungHo hasnt really given it much.  It has what?  Loki?  Vamp?  Sleeping beauty at a stretch?  I think maybe a Yomi form?
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Mr. Sacchi

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #732 on: September 04, 2015, 03:46:12 PM »
(Dark Balanced would be in a much better state if Pandora was Balanced.)

(gungho please)

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #733 on: September 04, 2015, 03:54:51 PM »
EVERYBODY has crap for dark balanced because GungHo hasnt really given it much.  It has what?  Loki?  Vamp?  Sleeping beauty at a stretch?  I think maybe a Yomi form?

This was pretty much the same reason why Lucifer getting a Balanced ult was weird to me. It's as dead of a type as Dark Healer has been for so long (and still kind of is when it only has four super-significant cards in Claire, Bikini!Claire, AHaku, and Persephone).

Dark Balanced in NA (main attribute, at least):
Typhon
Batgirl & Batwoman
D/R FA Lucifer
Sleeping Beauty
Mulan
Ult AA Lucifer
D/B Vampire
D/D Yomi (and there's like zero reason to keep her that way once Awoken Tsukuyomi comes out)
Thanatos
CDK Voice
and that new Batman ult.

Broadening the search to Dark subattribute gives you:
Wadatsumi
Cu Chulainn
Gronia

That's really it.

As for Dark Machine:
Diadem
Kakkab
Kaworu
Hysferzen
Deus Ex Machina
edit: Oh, and the new batman boss too, he's machine.

So while the new ult is cool, his sub pool is, uh... really, really limited. If you've got enough of these you're in luck though? :V

Your best option, assuming you've got none of the REM stuff, more or less appears to be, if you want everyone to get the 1.3x bonuses:
D/D Bats/Hysferzen/Mulan/Vampire/Arkham Knight

Hysferzen for bulk and damage reduction/defense break, Mulan for bind removal, Vampire for orbmaking, and Arkham Knight for delay.

You can still always run any dark type in general, but they wouldn't necessarily get that nice 1.69x boost you'd get from running two leads.


Meanwhile I'm more excited about just farming the boss. Having a skillmax Private Military Arkham Knight will be super useful because he's nice and bulky and has a two turn delay while having two dark OE. Good for an Awoken Tsukuyomi sub! :O

(Dark Balanced would be in a much better state if Pandora was Balanced.)

(gungho please)

as if adding one sub would change much :V
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 04:01:57 PM by Guildmarm Matsuri »

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #734 on: September 04, 2015, 04:04:05 PM »
Well you would be able to just stack pandoras and have row madness coming

although i suppose that wouldn't be much of a dark balanced team so much as it would be a ghetto dark row team

hyorinryu

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #735 on: September 04, 2015, 04:24:10 PM »

as if adding one sub would change much :V

Seemed to work for Liu Bei :V

*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #736 on: September 04, 2015, 04:29:37 PM »
Well you would be able to just stack pandoras and have row madness coming

although i suppose that wouldn't be much of a dark balanced team so much as it would be a ghetto dark row team

That assumes the player in question has multiple Pandoras to begin with! :V

And nah, that'd be legit as a row team, nothing ghetto about it-- you'd just need stuff to go with her. Having four of the same "switch two color" actives means you'll be running out of resources almost as quickly as not having them at all :p

Chaore

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #737 on: September 04, 2015, 06:00:50 PM »
as if adding one sub would change much :V

it would have probably changed the game's history entirely really



d/d bats nu is cool though, he's got a lot of potential and could bring actual demand for balanced and machine type cards in the future

probably my favorite part of batdate, everything else seems kinda...eeeeeeeeeeehhhh

Jq1790

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #738 on: September 04, 2015, 06:52:42 PM »
Prob wont affect me much re: any REM stuff, but Ill have to look at the farmables when I get home to see what they're all about.  Hopefully a useful skillup or two will reveal itself to me or something?
If you're a Pazudora player and aren't on #puzzleandlibrarians, come join us!

Chaore

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #739 on: September 04, 2015, 07:00:07 PM »
meanwhile ./muffled screaming at tierlists

why are we doing this now too, this is such a stupid endeavor

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #740 on: September 04, 2015, 07:23:29 PM »
it would have probably changed the game's history entirely really

that is kind of an enormous overstatement

At the greatest effect it would probably draw attention to Dark Balanced in general instead of adding her to the already long but very versatile and very good list of Devils, which is kinda Dark's bread n' butter archetype and always has been (along with Fire Attacker, Water Physical, Wood Balanced, and Light Healer). They've expanded a lot since then, sure, and roles have evolved to bring greater versatility among types and attributes. We're seeing a surge of Dragon and Physical among Fire, Water's seen a lot of Healers lately, Wood has been really stepping it up with Attacker, Light has been seeing kind of a steady spread of everything in general, and Dark has been getting some growth in Physical (and kinda dominates the Machine market right now-- especially with this new Batman stuff).

Meanwhile, lesser used types for Dark like Balanced and Healer are still struggling. Dark Healers just got four super-fantastic units in the past couple months with Awoken Haku, Persephone, Asmodeus and not-tan BikiniClaire. As a type in and of itself, Dark Healer simply cannot stand alone, since there are only really six super viable units in it altogether, if you add Dill Sirius and normal Claire to the list. And your odds of getting two of the six listed here are really low because lol collab/event golds. Kurone and Aamir are also valid, at a stretch. But the rest? Pretty damned empty. The type simply cannot stand on its own. And even if you ARE lucky enough to have all of these, only three of them are viable leaders for the rest (Awoken Haku, Asmodeus, and normal Claire). Persephone's leader skill kinda blows unless pairing her with a partner that has a really good atk multiplier; BikiniClaire is great but she boosts Devil atk, not Healer. Aamir's leader skill is kind of awesome... only if you're willing to throw away two slots on junk units. Kurone boosts HP only. Dill Sirius only works when you use a skill.

Thus my point is, even if a type gets some great stuff, it simply cannot stand on its own unless it has a wider pool of options. Which may yet still happen for Dark Healer, who knows? But it's gonna be a pretty long time before it becomes a game changer. And the same goes for Dark Balanced, which has MORE shit already than Dark Healer does and is still struggling. Adding Pandora to the list would, at best, use her popularity as a springboard to get a couple more Dark Balanced types to pop in as subs, thus making the type a bit more viable. (And even then, they'd in most cases... still be used as Pandora subs, just like pretty much all Dark Balanced can easily do already, right now.) But I wouldn't say that it would change the history of the game-- I think that's a pretty big leap. And even then, we now have things in Dark Balanced that, while they work differently from Pandora, can certainly match her strength and then some with Typhon and this new Batman. Like Pandora, Typhon doesn't rely on type for the leader skill, so both of them can use pretty much any subs they like (they both work as subs for each other as well, even if their active skills are incompatible together). It's the new Batman that suffers a bit because of all of this, but what I'm trying to say is that one simple change for Pandora when her ult came out wouldn't have fixed that-- it would have just made it a little more viable at best and had next to no effect at worst.


meanwhile ./muffled screaming at tierlists

why are we doing this now too, this is such a stupid endeavor

It's just more whaletier circlejerking tbh. People just want another excuse to lord themselves over other people for having better things by having a list to use as an excuse of "look at all of my S-tier cards, peasants".

and so on.

Chaore

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #741 on: September 04, 2015, 08:15:07 PM »
that is kind of an enormous overstatement

it's really not

At the greatest effect it would probably draw attention to Dark Balanced in general instead of adding her to the already long but very versatile and very good list of Devils,

yeah that would've changed a lot, especially given pandora's popularity.

meanwhile i don't think she really did a whole lot for dark devil, another orb changer, certainly not as big as hanzo devil was ultimately

i'm sure she's an often used sub but she wasn't a game changer, merely a slight upgrade to an already fantastic pool

dark balanced would've made loki have a team and a strong combo between her and vampire. the last slot was open, but with options like sleeping beauty and typhoon coming down the road dark balanced could've taken off and gained popularity, shifting how the game grew to throw some cards their way and make them an actual type like blue healer became

balanced pandora WOULD have really changed the game ultimately

but nope, she went devil. Still a terrible decision.

Thus my point is, even if a type gets some great stuff, it simply cannot stand on its own unless it has a wider pool of options.

Your point is bad. edit: it is bad precisely because -you need a small pool of options that work to gain a type popularity. Reasons cards like I&I and GZL eventually change games is because of established teams- yes, you need a wider pool to grow, BUT YOU NEED A COHERENT SET FIRST. Pandora would have overwhelmingly given Dark Balanced that.

Your entire paragraph is mostly fluff that annoys me because you know this but react poorly every time gungho tries to build a pool.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 08:48:44 PM by Chaore »

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #742 on: September 04, 2015, 09:20:00 PM »
I'm... sorry for indulging in my right to have an opinion that doesn't match yours? I do not now, never have, and never will understand your unnecessary hostility over discussing opinions in this game, but it's getting exhausting to have to walk on eggshells all the time to try to speak my thoughts on things without annoying you.

I don't "react poorly" when they try to build a pool. I am merely saying now (and every time we've discussed this, in fact) that adding one or two good cards to a currently low-density category does not necessarily make them the savior of that category. Every time this comes up you mention Loki as the quintessential leader for the Dark Balanced pool. Granted, he's good. But what you keep proposing is one very specific setup that requires someone to have all of the pieces for it to work at all, and I feel that doesn't give it much standing ground.

You are correct when you say that popularity would pull more cards into the pool to make the type more useful, I never disputed that. But I also feel that, like what I explained for Dark Healer that you so ever so kindly brushed off as insignificant, that alone is not enough. You can have lots of cards of a type that are great in their own right, but they do not necessarily always have great type synergy, which is the case for Dark Healer.

My feelings on neglected attribute-type combinations don't match yours because I don't feel sending them one or two great cards necessarily makes them saviors for the type. It has happened before, yes, but it is not always the case. I am not now and have never been against GH building up pools. My issue has always been "okay, great, you added a few cards to this, now let's wait for a few months to a year or more for them to slowly trickle things into it to expand it while the card in its current situation is disadvantaged by its currently weak pool to choose from". This is the fate Loki has been trapped in all of this time. He's a fantastic card, just like the rest of the Norse pantheon, but is pushed to mostly be a sub because his leader skill just doesn't have the pool to support it. I've never disagreed with you on that matter, in fact. I just do not think adding Pandora to that list would have been the huge change you claim it would be-- though it would have been a perfect selection for Loki's leader skill. Pool building is good. Having a vast span of categories to choose from and build with is what makes this game great. But I feel your claim is just not a cure-all to all of a type's issues. Yes, it would have helped. But without a much more significant amount of growth, I just don't think it would have amounted to helping THAT much.

What I feel needs to be done is for GungHo to take more advantage of the three-type system that is now a thing and use that to build up categories they've not focused in-- especially in descend/pantheon gods. It would be much better for people to be able to use things they already have or can farmably obtain to revitalize dead attribute/type combinations than simply throwing more needles in the haystack for people to dig for.

And yes, I wanted Pandora as a Devil type.  That's how I've felt all this time and I still feel the same. I like her where she's at for the express purpose of the fact that I have a lot of Devil types and I enjoy being able to use her on Devil teams. Did Devil type need her? No, not really. Does her type really matter for her purposes as a leader? Not really, she would have worked all the same as a leader. Would Balanced have seen a benefit from having her? Yes, of course. But without more expansion, I still disagree with the notion that she alone would have fixed the category, too.

GungHo has taken steps to really actually change how this game is played by introducing the concept of having three types at once. They just need to take advantage of that in favor of categories they've been neglecting all this time. I feel that will do way, way more for them than just throwing them a tasty bone and pretending it's a full course meal.

I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but that's how the way I am thinking it should be. I'd much rather us agree to disagree rather than keep being dismissed as being annoying and saying my points are bad when I'm at least making an effort to explain where I'm coming from.

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #743 on: September 04, 2015, 09:21:35 PM »
it's getting exhausting to have to walk on eggshells all the time to try to speak my thoughts on things without annoying you.

Isolating and bolding for emphasis because I am sick of it as well.

O4rfish

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #744 on: September 04, 2015, 09:42:29 PM »
I'm confused.  Are we talking about GungHo introducing monsters to a set so that GungHo will introduce more monsters to a set, or are we talking about GungHo making leaders viable so that our friends choose them?
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #745 on: September 04, 2015, 10:07:31 PM »
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the game is made on the JP side, but it seems like to some degree both of you guys are talking about popular types gaining new additions because they're popular, like green attackers being made in greater quantities because players like GZL. Is that right? Because typically that's not totally how games work. If GZL was good and we got more green attackers after that I'd be inclined to think it was because Gungho decided they were going to push green attackers, not because they were necessarily responding to people liking him. We like him because they made him good and they made him good because they wanted green attackers to be good. Is that off base? Or am I missing your point entirely?

I mean, to some degree I imagine it goes both ways, if types do take off because they decide to push them they probably factor popularity into that decision. But I don't think it's all just a matter of making things dependent entirely on what player perception is, or Loki never would have been made as he was in the first place.
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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #746 on: September 04, 2015, 10:20:27 PM »
Seems to be the former, like.

"GungHo introduced I&I as blue healer, and was followed by Andromeda, Gabriel, etc."

Compared to

"GungHo introduced Loki as a dark Balanced, but did not receive Pandora as a sub."

I think the issue is, if GungHo had given Balanced Pandora, they would have been more likely to give -other- good dark balanced mobs. Balanced Awoken Byakko using Mulan and Wadatsumi as ingredients? Balanced Persephone instead of Healerphone? Even Okuninushi or lol Vritra? And so forth.

O4rfish

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #747 on: September 04, 2015, 10:59:43 PM »
omg
on PF they are now referring to adding 5 x 0.05 seconds to a card as "fisting"
as in "dude you need to fist that waifu"
smh
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Chaore

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #748 on: September 04, 2015, 11:29:41 PM »
Seems to be the former, like.

"GungHo introduced I&I as blue healer, and was followed by Andromeda, Gabriel, etc."

Compared to

"GungHo introduced Loki as a dark Balanced, but did not receive Pandora as a sub."

I think the issue is, if GungHo had given Balanced Pandora, they would have been more likely to give -other- good dark balanced mobs. Balanced Awoken Byakko using Mulan and Wadatsumi as ingredients? Balanced Persephone instead of Healerphone? Even Okuninushi or lol Vritra? And so forth.

This is what I mean ultimately. I've said this a bunch really.

Especially since in the first example, I&I got a pretty strong team that was improved on over time, and led to a pretty solid build of cards (if still strong options) that gungho continues to work on.

Loki got none of that. Pandora would have been the start of that in my opinion, because she would've got him getting -used- if only by a small amount of people or whales, drawing attention to him. Before that, He was just kinda sitting there- that'd have been a really big change for him imo.

I'll leave it at that, since people would rather I do so.

omg
on PF they are now referring to adding 5 x 0.05 seconds to a card as "fisting"
as in "dude you need to fist that waifu"
smh

this though is a thing and super fucking gross

pf is the absolute worst

Re: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 23 - LET'S GET WET (and salty)
« Reply #749 on: September 05, 2015, 12:28:41 AM »
hey guys what did i mis-oh shit MP shop wat

also i still cant beat challenge 9 i need a hermes pls