Author Topic: Puzzle & Dragons forever 17 - Star Vault Didn't Go So Well: I Was Nonplussed (Read 133915 times)

commandercool · « **Reply #690 on:** February 16, 2015, 03:30:54 AM »

Last Sunday I made a spreadsheet of all of my friends and their ranks. Today I compared their current rank against the record and deleted everyone who didn't rank up at all under suspicion that they don't actually play and just log in for the free stones. Ended up deleting five people out of 59. That seems like quite a lot to me. Also found that quite a high number of people only ranked up once. I considered deleting some of them, but decided against it for now.

Does anyone on here and on the US servers have a white Kali who isn't my friend yet? Or is anyone raising one up and wants more Kali friends? Mine isn't up all the time, but feel free to send me a request if you're interested, I have the space right now.

Quote from: tranceHiME on February 16, 2015, 02:04:04 AM

I only have a mini SunQuan so unfortunately I would not use him; I would prefer to have a booster that boosts all of my team. Before I could fit Izanagi into my team I was using Arcline, though I can see the logic behind using Sun Quan, because his active is a delay. I put Light Metatron into the team because I would like to have a get out of jail free card versus bind attacks (example: Hera-Is).

Fair enough if you don't have him, and boosting your entire team is nice. I'm unsure how often Metatron's get out of jail free ability will be the part of her that matters. Things that bind you tend to only do it at certain times that are avoidable, or be fragile (Hera-Is), or do it for more than two turns. For a stallier team having that ability is great, but for a megaspike like Kali for me the get out of jail free card is usually a Kali active to just destroy the thing that would bind me before it does. That doesn't necessarily help against very bulky things that bind or just plain mistakes though, so Metatron definitely pulls a lot of weight beyond her great stats and awakenings, but I don't feel the need to have that ability on a Kali team necessarily. Of course I got lucky enough to get two Kalis so I have three of her active to lean on and can be more careless with them, so it's different enough anyway.

trancehime · « **Reply #691 on:** February 16, 2015, 03:33:13 AM »

Quote from: commandercool on February 16, 2015, 03:30:54 AM

Fair enough if you don't have him, and boosting your entire team is nice. I'm unsure how often Metatron's get out of jail free ability will be the part of her that matters. Things that bind you tend to only do it at certain times that are avoidable, or be fragile (Hera-Is), or do it for more than two turns. For a stallier team having that ability is great, but for a megaspike like Kali for me the get out of jail free card is usually a Kali active to just destroy the thing that would bind me before it does. That doesn't necessarily help against very bulky things that bind or just plain mistakes though, so Metatron definitely pulls a lot of weight beyond her great stats and awakenings, but I don't feel the need to have that ability on a Kali team necessarily. Of course I got lucky enough to get two Kalis so I have three of her active to lean on and can be more careless with them, so it's different enough anyway.

I enjoy having 1000 RCV on one monster on her own :getdown:

EDIT: Just realized Chibi LMeta would actually be more optimal than normal LMeta for damage alone :V Too bad i don't have her

commandercool · « **Reply #692 on:** February 16, 2015, 03:59:08 AM »

Quote from: tranceHiME on February 16, 2015, 03:33:13 AM

I enjoy having 1000 RCV on one monster on her own :getdown:

EDIT: Just realized Chibi LMeta would actually be more optimal than normal LMeta for damage alone :V Too bad i don't have her

Sometimes better, maybe. I'm a big, big fan of Metatron's two skillboosts. Losing both of those is rough.

trancehime · « **Reply #693 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:02:12 AM »

Hahahahahahaha Alt. OoH and Alt. Tower to the Sky are All Att. Required

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

commandercool · « **Reply #694 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:04:09 AM »

Christ. That's mean. Although with the new easy mode restricted descends will those become really easy as well?

Jq1790 · « **Reply #695 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:27:52 AM »

Quote from: commandercool on February 16, 2015, 04:04:09 AM

Christ. That's mean. Although with the new easy mode restricted descends will those become really easy as well?

Ask the 12k Mystic Masks with IIRC 600k Def and 40 HP in OoH.

trancehime · « **Reply #696 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:28:38 AM »

Quote from: commandercool on February 16, 2015, 04:04:09 AM

Christ. That's mean. Although with the new easy mode restricted descends will those become really easy as well?

not really.

Beautiful Being boss; Cosmos Venus 2.7M HP, 1 timer, 21K Attack

Ocean of Heaven; has 40 HP, 600K DEF Mystic Masks, 1 timer, 12k Attack @_@

OverlordChirei · « **Reply #697 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:34:27 AM »

Quote from: tranceHiME on February 16, 2015, 04:28:38 AM

Beautiful Being boss; Cosmos Venus 2.7M HP, 1 timer, 21K Attack

-69/10 would not run

worst dungeon 2k15

commandercool · « **Reply #698 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:47:50 AM »

Quote from: tranceHiME on February 16, 2015, 04:28:38 AM

Beautiful Being boss; Cosmos Venus 2.7M HP, 1 timer, 21K Attack

I'll take it! But I probably won't farm it.

Quote from: tranceHiME on February 16, 2015, 04:28:38 AM

Ocean of Heaven; has 40 HP, 600K DEF Mystic Masks, 1 timer, 12k Attack @_@

I'll take it! Where did I put that pile of Ra duplicates? :derp:

Is there anything to Neptune? He seems like they could make him really nasty or a total pushover.

trancehime · « **Reply #699 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:59:14 AM »

Quote from: commandercool on February 16, 2015, 04:47:50 AM

I'll take it! But I probably won't farm it.

I'll take it! Where did I put that pile of Ra duplicates? :derp:

Is there anything to Neptune? He seems like they could make him really nasty or a total pushover.

he is not too bad... he's basically the same as the normal OoH Neptune except with about 300K more HP and doing 50K more damage.

hyorinryu · « **Reply #700 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:21:21 AM »

[01:19] <hyorinryu> I was so hyped about Perseus beating challenge 7
[01:19] <hyorinryu> I forgot the true way
[01:19] <hyorinryu> http://imgur.com/TUP9eXX

trancehime · « **Reply #701 on:** February 16, 2015, 08:08:44 AM »

https://twitter.com/pad_sexy/status/567230655704997888

AS: Over-Reflection - Leftmost column turns to Light orbs, Rightmost column turns to Dark orbs, and for one turn, counter attacks with heavy Light damage
LS: Regulation of the Mirror World - Dragon and Devil Types' ATK and HP x2, counter all attacks with some Light damage

why cant we have her she is so pretty.

OverlordChirei · « **Reply #702 on:** February 16, 2015, 11:21:44 AM »

So Z&H actually looks pretty damn powerful. I wonder how hard it'll be to beat them, though...

EDIT: So by "popular" request, I've finished updating the Alt. Castle of Satan drop log. It now sits at 659 runs, and the percentages seem to have been staying at more or less the same values compared to when I only had 250 runs logged.

In addition, while i'm not allowed to share the link, someone else used my data (with my permission) and mixed it with data from about 7 other people to total a little over 1800 runs of the place. The total number of Flampy dropped was... 18, which would mean slightly over a 1% chance, which is also not that different than what my log suggests. So I think at this point I can probably personally say that the actual chance of getting a Flampy out of there is in actuality no less than 1%, and a 1/100 chance ain't that bad, I suppose!

commandercool · « **Reply #703 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:01:55 PM »

I thought I wanted Yomi or maybe Okuninushi to fill the dark sub spot on my Kali team. Then I met ZeHeusra. Daaaamn. RIP Tengu, we all know you held onto that triple skillboost exclusivity a little too long.

Quote from: tranceHiME on February 16, 2015, 04:59:14 AM

he is not too bad... he's basically the same as the normal OoH Neptune except with about 300K more HP and doing 50K more damage.

Okay, so the important thing is that they didn't quadruple his defense or anything. That doesn't seem too bad. Not that he has to be, since alt carbuncles are pretty big already, but it's better than I expected.

Quote from: OverlordChirei on February 16, 2015, 11:21:44 AM

So Z&H actually looks pretty damn powerful. I wonder how hard it'll be to beat them, though...

EDIT: So by "popular" request, I've finished updating the Alt. Castle of Satan drop log. It now sits at 659 runs, and the percentages seem to have been staying at more or less the same values compared to when I only had 250 runs logged.

In addition, while i'm not allowed to share the link, someone else used my data (with my permission) and mixed it with data from about 7 other people to total a little over 1800 runs of the place. The total number of Flampy dropped was... 18, which would mean slightly over a 1% chance, which is also not that different than what my log suggests. So I think at this point I can probably personally say that the actual chance of getting a Flampy out of there is in actuality no less than 1%, and a 1/100 chance ain't that bad, I suppose!

Sounds pretty reasonable. And with boosted droprates that would become very attainable. Do you have any theory as to how other, non-Castle dungeons compare to those numbers?

OverlordChirei · « **Reply #704 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:07:42 PM »

Quote from: commandercool on February 16, 2015, 02:01:55 PM

Sounds pretty reasonable. And with boosted droprates that would become very attainable. Do you have any theory as to how other, non-Castle dungeons compare to those numbers?

They also compiled stuff from the other dungeons that rotation, and I was also seeing drop rates of about 1%. If I combined all runs across those five dungeons into one pool (almost 4000 runs!) ...it was still close to 1%.

I should probably ask the guy if I can at least take images of the spreadsheet, so y'all can get a better grasp of the numbers.

EDIT: random musings:

Four 45% gravities = 90.849375% HP removed
Three 45% gravities = 83.3625% HP removed
Two 45% gravities = 69.75% HP removed

Four 35% gravities = 82.149375% HP removed
Three 35% gravities = 72.5375% HP removed
Two 35% gravities = 57.75% HP removed

Four 30% gravities = 75.99% HP removed
Three 30% gravities = 65.7% HP removed
Two 30% gravities = 51% HP removed

Two 45% gravities are stronger than three 30%'s, so I wonder if this means another boon for Lucifer with the additional sub slot?

Mr. Sacchi · « **Reply #705 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:19:54 PM »

And now I'm seriously starting to wonder how the hell did the JP guys get that 1 in 6000 number. Because that's not even close to a 1% rate, and assuming they really did do the 6000 runs they said, the sample size is big enough that probability should've done its job. So I'm like :wat:

Yukarin · « **Reply #706 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:20:27 PM »

holy shit i got a flampy

holy shit holy shit omg the drop was so hype too

trancehime · « **Reply #707 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:24:07 PM »

Quote from: Toyosatomimi No Sacchi on February 16, 2015, 02:19:54 PM

And now I'm seriously starting to wonder how the hell did the JP guys get that 1 in 6000 number. Because that's not even close to a 1% rate, and assuming they really did do the 6000 runs they said, the sample size is big enough that probability should've done its job. So I'm like :wat:

aggregates can be misleading I guess

OverlordChirei · « **Reply #708 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:42:30 PM »

Quote from: Toyosatomimi No Sacchi on February 16, 2015, 02:19:54 PM

And now I'm seriously starting to wonder how the hell did the JP guys get that 1 in 6000 number. Because that's not even close to a 1% rate, and assuming they really did do the 6000 runs they said, the sample size is big enough that probability should've done its job. So I'm like :wat:

They literally just took runs from all alt dungeons regardless of rotation and mashed them together into one mess. NA players are currently working to get the real rates out there.

EDIT: dug up the old picture

If I'm reading this correctly, they're suggesting that the drop rate is 1/171, which is almost half of 1%. In addition, they're suggesting that the plus egg rate is about 5%, which it is very clearly not for Alt. Castle of Satan, and is easily at least 6x that. The main thing I and the other loggers are ultimately trying to debunk is that these rates are not the same for all the Alt. dungeons, and that some are more worth your time than others.

Chaore · « **Reply #709 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:50:15 PM »

Quote from: OverlordChirei on February 16, 2015, 02:07:42 PM

Two 45% gravities are stronger than three 30%'s, so I wonder if this means another boon for Lucifer with the additional sub slot?

Oh hell yes. Especially sporting 1000 autoheal and 3 skillboosts per Z&H, along with a large bucket of HP and decent rcv. And Prong.

Z&H alone may kick lucifer back up a few tiers, so ofcourse they'll be a pain to actually get for lucifer :v

OverlordChirei · « **Reply #710 on:** February 16, 2015, 02:54:31 PM »

One more addendum before I head to class, assuming I did the math right.

Assuming I get a Flampy drop in AltCoS roughly every 94.14 runs, a Flampy there is worth roughly 2071 stamina. I have no idea why people love to measure these things in stamina costs, but there it is if you're one of those people.

Suikama · « **Reply #711 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:08:28 PM »

Defour 0 stoned ^{isis still da bes}

All normals and technicals cleared BV

commandercool · « **Reply #712 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:15:19 PM »

Quote from: DJ Suikama on February 16, 2015, 06:08:28 PM

Defour 0 stoned ^{isis still da bes}

All normals and technicals cleared BV

I gotta get around to clearing those last few, but I never have spare stamina any more. Too busy grinding up stones from alt dungeons. Defour looks semi-hard.

Suikama · « **Reply #713 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:21:42 PM »

He's not too bad since you get 6 turns + you can Echidna him so you have a lot of time to beat him down

Sapz · « **Reply #714 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:22:08 PM »

Late, but I got GZL this last godfest. Time to smash some dudes. :getdown:

Mr. Sacchi · « **Reply #715 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:31:14 PM »

Speaking of GZL, does anyone have any tips towards clearing King of the Gods? Not even with three TPAs x2 multiplier GZL team I can OHK Zeus.

Anything I can do instead of just waiting for Liu Bei's uvo?

Tamer Anode/Cathode · « **Reply #716 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:39:49 PM »

Athena Descended cleared with only one stone used on the CuChu phase. Team used was Kirin/Bastet/Echidna/Reine/Verche/Kirin.

am I allowed to call double Kirin "SKATE OR DIE" because that's pretty much how it works

commandercool · « **Reply #717 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:40:11 PM »

Quote from: Toyosatomimi No Sacchi on February 16, 2015, 06:31:14 PM

Speaking of GZL, does anyone have any tips towards clearing King of the Gods? Not even with three TPAs x2 multiplier GZL team I can OHK Zeus.

Anything I can do instead of just waiting for Liu Bei's uvo?

Have you tried subbing in Echidna? You're at the mercy of skyfalls to an extent, but you get a while to hammer on him. Mmmmaybe even bring Satan or Hercules?

Mr. Sacchi · « **Reply #718 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:46:16 PM »

Quote from: commandercool on February 16, 2015, 06:40:11 PM

Have you tried subbing in Echidna? You're at the mercy of skyfalls to an extent, but you get a while to hammer on him. Mmmmaybe even bring Satan or Hercules?

Satan and Hercules are non-essential since I have two heartbreakers (Liu Bei and Cu Chu), so so long as skyfalls don't fuck me over, I'm good on that front.

I'm gonna try subbing in echidna instead of Michael, maybe it will help.

@Edit

Welp, it worked. By the skin of my teeth yeah, but it worked. I now have access to Bullshit Earth, Bullshit Seaway (No RCV™) and Bullshit Rush - Devil, God and Hera editions!

(Not like I'm gonna attempt any of it any time soon anyway.)

Thanks for the suggestion :toot:

commandercool · « **Reply #719 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:58:15 PM »

Quote from: Toyosatomimi No Sacchi on February 16, 2015, 06:46:16 PM

Satan and Hercules are non-essential since I have two heartbreakers (Liu Bei and Cu Chu), so so long as skyfalls don't fuck me over, I'm good on that front.

I'm gonna try subbing in echidna instead of Michael, maybe it will help.

I'd be worried about the skyfalls, but I guess if you just want the stone and not to farm it it's cheap. You can just try again if you get unlucky. And if you were going to bring Satan it might as well be a Satan team.

Also speakingbof Satan, could I get away with Satan/Satan/Satan/Hanzo/Vampire/Satan? Is there any reason to put that together? I'm throwing away so many Devilits I figure I might as well use them to uvo something.