Author Topic: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)  (Read 129834 times)

Colticide

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2015, 05:05:34 PM »
Utsuho and Youmu can work so well in this game. Yukari would be interesting in how she works, she could have reflector moves or storing moves, EX: her gaps could shoot danmaku back out or store it and power it up Mr. G&W style. I'm interested in how Sukuna could work.

Characters I want to see are Alice, Sekibanki, Kagerou, Mystia, Parsee, Satori (Possibly even Koishi as a skin or both of them Ice climbers style), Aya, Momiji, I'll stop actually I could keep going. :D
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Alcoraiden

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2015, 05:25:36 PM »
Personally I would show preference now to late-stage bosses who *weren't* in the Touhou fighters. Namely...

Mokou, Kaguya, Eirin, Kanako, Orin, Shou, Nue, Ran (no, Yukari's summon doesn't count), and I'll grandfather in Keine and Satori since they matter to the later-stage plot of their game a lot and Keine would do a really cool Zelda-to-Sheik transition style. I'd personally rather not see fairies or early game bosses but that's just my personal character preferences and I'm weird. Yuuka is already in or she'd make this list too; same with Eiki and Shinki. I'm holding off on TH14 because we don't know who's in ULiL yet. Namely, people I would like to see *less* even though I love them anyway include Youmu, Patchouli, and others who are repeat fighter characters. I'd be totally awesome having a "touhou fighter characters expansion" later, but the starters I'd like to see as a chance to use characters ZUN overlooked.

Flandre not on the list because I don't like Flandre but she does count as a non-fighter late boss so it'd make sense anyway.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:27:29 PM by Alcoraiden »

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2015, 06:02:32 PM »
With five spots left (including the randaom fan vote draw), if I had my way entirely, I'd pick Aya, Reisen, Miko, Iku, and Kasen.

Really, though, I'll probably be happy with anything that isn't just the same old people over and over again. If at least two of the unknown-as-of-yet characters aren't any of Marisa, Patchouli, Remilia, Alice, Youmu, Yuyuko, or Yukari, that would be fine.
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Flandre5carlet

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2015, 06:16:13 PM »
With five spots left (including the randaom fan vote draw), if I had my way entirely, I'd pick Aya, Reisen, Miko, Iku, and Kasen.

No offense to you, but I'm glad you don't have your way, because legit all of those are in Touhou fighting games and I'd be really disappointed if that turned out to be the roster.
I'd be more for what Alcoraiden suggested. Aside from the iconic Reimu and Marisa who would be obvious additions, I'd have important characters and late-game bosses that have yet to appear in fighting games. Namely, I'd love for Kaguya and Mokou to be in. Flandre also, doubtful though with how popular she is. Really glad for the Eiki addition, not so much the other two but they're alright I guess.

Well, in my dreams I'd have the entire roster, but we all know how technically doable that is.

Kilgamayan

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2015, 06:31:57 PM »
Hey, if things are left to me, I'm going to pick my five favorites that aren't already in the game. ;\ I think there's also an argument to be made against Kaguya, at least, when it comes to trying to pick underexposed characters. Don't forget that there are three(!) complete written works sets out there where Eientei is the prime focus.
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Flandre5carlet

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2015, 06:44:46 PM »
I did only mention "that weren't in fighting games"... So not much to do with under or overexposition (though I'd also enjoy for underexposed characters to make the cut.)
And I didn't bring up just Kaguya; I didn't list many characters because Alcoraiden already did so before me, but as I said, I'd like characters that are late-game and not in fighting games, that's all.
Sorry if I sounded mean or something, I was just saying...
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 07:00:10 PM by Flandre5carlet »

Colticide

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2015, 07:02:12 PM »
Your all wrong! The only important character for this game is Beerko! Beerko for TSSB 2015!
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Flandre5carlet

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2015, 07:11:36 PM »
Your all wrong! The only important character for this game is Beerko! Beerko for TSSB 2015!
Entire roster is Beerko. I second this. Fund it.

CK Crash

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2015, 07:27:03 PM »
Here's what I'm thinking the fighting styles of the new confirms will be:

Tewi: Mostly similar to Wario, G&W, and Pac-Man, a character with high air mobility but lacking KO power on air moves. She lacks dense danmaku, but can endlessly frustrate enemies with traps until she can land a decisive hammer blow. Her good luck means her attacks often induce tripping or guardbreaks...

Shinki: Combos and disjointedness of Ness, with the powerful smashes of Palutena. Since she created Makai, her wings and attacks are also constructed using dark magic, giving her unexpected reach. Her spell cards don't directly attack, but create constructs that amplify her normal danmaku.

Eiki: Similar to Palutena for different reasons. Side special is the Cleansed Crystal Mirror. It can reflect projectiles, but if nothing hits it, it has a light burst that works similarly to Lucario's side special. Has a unique counter mechanic: Her down special uses the Rod of Remorse to parry. As the "sins" of enemy attacks are etched into it, normals and smashes performed with the Rod of Remorse will grow stronger until the offender is KO'd, resetting it.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2015, 07:33:37 PM »
As far as Touhou GS goes. I like many people contacted them thinking the same thing, that things were exactly as they had stated in their update posts. But to my surprise they had told me that they actually did  have absolutely no actual back and forth communitarian with ZUN because of the language barrier. They told me that things would have been different if only they could have communicated with him.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2015, 08:06:10 PM »
Here's what I'm thinking the fighting styles of the new confirms will be:

Tewi: Mostly similar to Wario, G&W, and Pac-Man, a character with high air mobility but lacking KO power on air moves. She lacks dense danmaku, but can endlessly frustrate enemies with traps until she can land a decisive hammer blow. Her good luck means her attacks often induce tripping or guardbreaks...


Thats kinda what I am thinking of going with with Tewi. She doesn't have many spell cards to work with, so I wanted to use her speed, luck, and tricks to win. She'll have a pitfall, and also have Bunny summons to help her out. I was thinking of pulling a few more things from Inaba Inaba too into her playstyle. But yeah, her main weapon will be the mallet, or at least be in her smashes.

The luck thing will be hard to make work in a competitive game. People hate luck playing a part, but luck is a key part to tewi. It's possible that she can have just a passive increase to sheild damage or her attacks can trip, or she can buff herself with luck to take reduced damage and just dodge attacks easily.

Alcoraiden

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2015, 08:42:56 PM »
I'd like to see Keine have a transform move that turns her from defensive/dodgy human to heavy werebeast attacker. It'd be a nice thing. And yay, other people agree with my "priority to non-fighter characters" thing!

For Eiki I'm going to guess this will end up mainly ranged, with a melee rod attack. Possibly the rod changes damage based on something -- maybe the "mass" of the other attacker? To sub in for the "heavier if you're evil" thing? Or maybe how much damage you've done since you last took damage or something. Whatever. The mirror's functions in canon are to show someone's actions -- perhaps not a reflect, but maybe a Kirby-like "gain one use of the enemy's last move that touched the mirror"? Or something. The reflect could be there also, like Youmu's sword-spin from SWR. Very dodgy and twitchy with good short dashes but her sprint speed is nothing to write home about. Alternatively, and I'm not sure how bad the positive feedback would be, she could have a rod-based move that does more damage the more damage you have -- so it's a killer finisher but does jack all to a newly spawned player. That might be OP as balls though.

For Shinki, I'm thinking DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE but literally no close-range power. All about really tight projectile blasts and lasers. Less dodge ability but maybe some sort of magic shield for more "dynamic" defense instead.  Average speed, maybe some sort of slow magic "rocket" as her recovery "up B" move. Her melee would probably be low damage with knockback, like a little magic hand-flick or something. Possibly something kinda like Sheik's movable whip, where you deploy it and it hangs out there and can be moved, but with some sort of beam or lash or something, so that her schtick becomes "extended attacks" sort of. Using a "wing deploy" attack for a slow chargeup, maybe like Samus style, adds to the "long-duration attacks" thing. Maybe she charges her hands up and then can do a big deploy. Devil's Recitation is an obvious theme for her spell card, but if you want something less "of course," then perhaps she starts a series of explosions around the arena or something. After all, she *did* set Makai on fire with that card.

Alternatively for Shinki, magic amplification. She has to have setup. Her wings can be manipulated to give her extra stuff on her otherwise mediocre attacks. Or something.

Not a fan of Tewi, so what she gets is what she gets. But as for the luck thing, there is nothing I hate more in a game than "whoops you rolled badly," so I for one will be infuriated as all hell if she gets luck-based attacks...

Yuuka is probably a Ganondorf-like. Big chargeups, big attacks, slow as balls, heavy to move around. One thing I'd like to see played with here is some of her PC98 moves, including the ability to split herself into two individuals. One could argue that was a factor of the dream world, like maybe that was just a dream version of Yuuka, because her flower abilities don't directly suggest she can do this, but I'd still like to play with it. In that case she'd maybe end up Ice Climbers-style for a while, with one main controlled body and a 'tagalong" that assists for a move or something. Or maybe it's a timer on how long she can stay copied or something. I dunno. Alternatively, if Yuuka isn't assigned to HEAVY AND DAMAGING, she could go 'crowd control.' Slows, binds, weighing down enemies, stuff like that. Her distant weak attack could be a thorn throw or something, and she could have a vine motif for grabs and throws. Although I do kind of at one point want to see her just pound somebody into the earth or something. XD

Tenshi is Tenshi and already kind of has a template from SWR. I assume it'll be used.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 09:04:38 PM by Alcoraiden »

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2015, 08:55:07 PM »
Well, in my dreams I'd have the entire roster, but we all know how technically doable that is.

This is possible with DLC/add-ons/etc.

Since this game is going to released for PCs, I can see that being a viable option, just like how the USF4 DLC adds new characters and stages.

CK Crash

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2015, 09:51:24 PM »
Honestly, Tewi with luck-based moves would work great if it was restricted in the same way as G&W hammer. It has the same range every time, and can't get the same result twice within a certain number of uses. If you get hit by such a slow move, you pretty much deserve whatever the RNG throws at you.

Tripping moves aren't bad either: Smash 4 often had trip properties on moves that were already fast enough to chain into themselves, so it wasn't really about random chance. It was more about spamming the move until you see them trip so that you can combo into a grab or something similar.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2015, 10:17:51 PM »
If I'd go for a top 5, I'd pick Orin, Murasa, Shinmyoumaru, Mokou, Seiga.

Orin as I've explained before has lots of stage 5 boss potential which nobody has ever used before in a fangame, like zombie fairy minions, flaming wheels, a cat form, a mountain of needles, etc. I feel that she, together with Shou, is the most underrated stage 5 boss (especially compared to Sakuya or Youmu or whatever).

Murasa because archors are a sweetass weapon, especially combined with ghostliness. I've always felt Murasa would do absolutely great in a fighter, but so far hasn't had the chance to show that yet (Ichirin too, but she was in HM).

Shinmyoumaru because I feel that's the best choise if we want someone from DDC, since she's most versatile, having interesting powers combined with a weapon. Seija would do better as an assist trophy, I think.

Mokou, because I feel she is literary Capt. Falcon. Capt. Falcon is Mokou. Confirmed.

And Seiga because she's my favorite from TD, and Wall-teleportation style combined with Zombie guard would probably make her a really cool character to play as.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2015, 10:48:36 PM »
Honestly, Tewi with luck-based moves would work great if it was restricted in the same way as G&W hammer. It has the same range every time, and can't get the same result twice within a certain number of uses. If you get hit by such a slow move, you pretty much deserve whatever the RNG throws at you.

Tripping moves aren't bad either: Smash 4 often had trip properties on moves that were already fast enough to chain into themselves, so it wasn't really about random chance. It was more about spamming the move until you see them trip so that you can combo into a grab or something similar.

Those are not bad ideas. Having her luck being tied to a move or 2 would be good, but with G&W he has bad luck, but tewi supposidly doesn't have bad luck.

I do like the idea of maybe the more she hits she increases a trip chance/shield break/maybe a slow chance or make them fall out of a fly. I also think she would have a self buff as well, kinda like Shulks manodo. I'm still tossing out a lot of ideas. Right now I am set on pitfalls, bunny summons, hammer for her main attacks, Being very fast and lots of jumps like a kirby, but no true up B like Yoshi.

Colticide

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2015, 10:54:35 PM »
Murasa because archors are a sweetass weapon, especially combined with ghostliness. I've always felt Murasa would do absolutely great in a fighter, but so far hasn't had the chance to show that yet (Ichirin too, but she was in HM).

Shinmyoumaru because I feel that's the best choise if we want someone from DDC, since she's most versatile, having interesting powers combined with a weapon. Seija would do better as an assist trophy, I think.

Yes, all of the yes. Murasa-san!
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2015, 11:49:35 PM »
Yeah I'm still wondering about that quote, as it has yet to be explained. Though, making a claim like "ZUN didn't actually shut down the project" in public where GS can easily show up and be like "no you're wrong" is ballsy, so I expect there are at least a few grains of truth.
Well, according to video IIRC, the reason he said that was because he had talked to GS and gotten clarification.

And I just now noticed there was another page. Woops.

>_>
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 11:51:31 PM by blabla1994 »
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Kilgamayan

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #78 on: January 10, 2015, 12:57:21 AM »
@Flandre5scarlet: No worries! No anger over here, certainly. Just a disagreement, perhaps founded on a misunderstanding.

@Everyone else: Gandalph and I are going to discuss what we'd like to see in Eiki, probably tonight and tomorrow. I do have some ideas, and I'm sure he does too. Not gonna talk about it much, though, since I want it to be a surprise (and because there's no guarantee our ideas won't be overriden anyway).
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #79 on: January 10, 2015, 04:27:38 AM »
Hello there!

About the new Dev Log (#84), I noticed something strange, but I don't think it has to do with the animations. At 1:15, Sakuya's feet aren't against the ground. I can see that there's a gap between her feet and her shadow cast on the stage. It does get itself fixed after she throws Reimu soon after. Though I see it happening a lot throughout the video (like at 0:39 or 4:10) It even happens to Reimu at 2;11 after being kicked.
I don't know if it's important or not. I might've only noticed it because the game was slowed down to show the animations.

As for the animations themselves, I think they're pretty good. The only change I suggest right now is that Sakuya's curtsy taunt is a tad too short at regular speed. I think it might look better if she held at the extreme (before the lets go of her dress and starts to head back to the idling pose) for a little bit more.


I feel I should've said this a while ago, but I'm enjoying this project and the Dev Logs! I don't know if I can donate, but maybe I can at least contribute some music someday.
I'm hoping your plan goes smoothly, Saijee!  ;)

pasu

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2015, 08:48:42 AM »
Tewi: Mostly similar to Wario, G&W, and Pac-Man, a character with high air mobility but lacking KO power on air moves. She lacks dense danmaku, but can endlessly frustrate enemies with traps until she can land a decisive hammer blow. Her good luck means her attacks often induce tripping or guardbreaks...


Dedede's hammer tho  :V

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2015, 09:33:30 AM »
We cannot have tripping because we don't have prat fall animations. We can however have instant knock downs, such like what happens when Sakuya D-air's someone who is standing.

I don't mind things that are "lucky" but I feel like we will do what we can to avoid anything that is truly "random"

Kulgia

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2015, 01:38:30 PM »
Hey uh Mr. Sajee. I just want to ask whether the weather system is in this game? Just like what SWR and UNL did. I know its complicated but yeah just wondering.

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2015, 01:45:38 PM »
Hey uh Mr. Sajee. I just want to ask whether the weather system is in this game? Just like what SWR and UNL did. I know its complicated but yeah just wondering.
I don't mind things that are "lucky" but I feel like we will do what we can to avoid anything that is truly "random"
I think that works too. Randomness is terrible in fighting games.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2015, 04:36:31 PM »
We cannot have tripping because we don't have prat fall animations. We can however have instant knock downs, such like what happens when Sakuya D-air's someone who is standing.

I don't mind things that are "lucky" but I feel like we will do what we can to avoid anything that is truly "random"

Yeah random is a no go for a competitive fighter. Tewi's luck power will need a lot of careful work with it. I'll figure something out that fits her and works within the game

Dedede's hammer tho  :V



I think I'll have her using something like that, a Moochi Mallet

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2015, 05:51:56 PM »
Kuni's coming over tomarrow, maybe it's a property of Tenshi, who knows....

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2015, 05:01:15 AM »
I can see Tewi possibly having a ambush attack similar to Greninja, where, when she's hit, it's revealed that you actually attacked an underling of hers, and then she attacks from behind.
Would her spellcards be about setting up traps? Because trap setting seems like it would be a way to "claim" an area of the stage, and also having a second way to do that through spellcards might be too much. I guess you could have two spells for traps and then one spell with danmaku...

I did have to look up if she was in charge of the other earth rabbits, but while doing so I didn't see anything about her herself being lucky, only giving luck TO people. Can someone clear that up for me?  :V

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2015, 12:04:08 PM »
I feel like Tewi would have some Villager-esque/Kirby/G&W/Megaman attacks.

Instead of a tree, a pitfall that doesn't go away until you set another or an opponent falls in - grounds the opponent. (Down Special)
Have a DeDeDe/Kirby Hammer attack/Mr. G&W's Judge(Side Special)
Her recovery move could be she bounces on another rabbit's head(Maybe have a chance of it being Reisen, who shoots a beam like ROB, Unless Reisen is in the game)(Up Special)
She could also pelt mochi at the opponent(Neutral Special)

« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 12:05:57 PM by PhantomSong »

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2015, 04:35:01 PM »
Seems like everyone likes Tewi Having a pitfall, which I think is a must for her. I do think she should have 1 or 2 specials that use danmaku though, since this is a bullet hell smash and if all her moves are close range it may hurt her. I think her side or netrual special will be her calling out rabbits that bounce arround and do danmaku, and she can call out multiple rabbits at different places.

Her final will most likely be ancient Duper.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2015, 07:10:37 PM »
She also has those weird bouncing sigil things from her PoFV EX attack, I suppose those could be akin to Pikachu's neutral B in that they bounce along the stage.