Author Topic: Smash 4 Thread #2 - Now With Another Crossover  (Read 35809 times)

Garlyle

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Smash 4 Thread #2 - Now With Another Crossover
« on: November 24, 2014, 12:31:49 AM »
First Thread

We need a friend code list or something here.  Nintendo Network IDs maybe.

Point is, 3DS Version is old news out, and WiiU version is the only version also out.  Unless you're in Europe.  In which case you have my condolences.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 08:17:01 AM by Garlyle »

Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 01:02:08 AM »
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Also reposting stage list because it's pretty

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 01:05:23 AM »
Man, that's a lot of nerd rage red. Makes me glad I don't Smash competitively. <_<
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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 01:09:49 AM »
The Japanese stage list is worse.

It's pretty much just FD, Battlefield, and Smashville, which is probably why we got a literal no items fox only final destination mode. :V

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 01:16:34 AM »
Competitive Smash pisses me off. Like yeah, let's strip the game of all its features and everything that makes it fun. Ban a ton of stages. Ban items. Ban characters.

It'd be a lot more fun playing the game as it was meant to be played and I just cannot see the appeal. If you want something so strict go play Street Fighter or something.

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 01:23:48 AM »
The Japanese stage list is worse.

It's pretty much just FD, Battlefield, and Smashville, which is probably why we got a literal no items fox only final destination mode. :V

The thing that confuses me the most about that meme was that until relatively recently  Sheik was the one on top of melee tier list. I guess fox is more fun.

Competitive Smash pisses me off. Like yeah, let's strip the game of all its features and everything that makes it fun. Ban a ton of stages. Ban items. Ban characters.

It'd be a lot more fun playing the game as it was meant to be played and I just cannot see the appeal. If you want something so strict go play Street Fighter or something.
The only reason they do that is because if they don't a lot of dumb stuff happens, like random infinites and things like that. Given the power items have, especially since some guys are balanced around being all melee, it can tilt stuff. It is a way the game was meant to be played, that's why we got the optoin turn all that stuff off. Some people find it more fun this way, where everything that happens was due to a choice someone made and not random chance.

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 01:29:49 AM »
As someone who plays street fighter competitively and who plays smash for fun I can see why people like a competitive smash scene. Can I explain it? No. I just love the rush I get from playing competitively, but I feel smash just has to many things to think about for me to get real into it. Yes during tournaments stage hazards are @#$%ing cheap! Especially when all your lives get taken by them and people rag on you for sucking, that was an aweful day.

I'm getting off topic but what I should be saying is its good to know what stages and characters are close to the rest of fighting games, imagine street fighter stages having a stage hazard, I'd lost my mind over that. (Where was I going with all this again?)

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 01:36:12 AM »
I've always thought of Smash as more like a party game, not a fighting game. Kind of excited to try out that Mario Party mode when we get it in the mail (hopefully tomorrow?).

Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 01:40:06 AM »
The thing that confuses me the most about that meme was that until relatively recently  Sheik was the one on top of melee tier list. I guess fox is more fun.
If by relatively recently you mean like 8 years ago :V :V

Competitive Smash pisses me off. Like yeah, let's strip the game of all its features and everything that makes it fun. Ban a ton of stages. Ban items. Ban characters.

It'd be a lot more fun playing the game as it was meant to be played and I just cannot see the appeal. If you want something so strict go play Street Fighter or something.
Essentially you can think of competitive smash as an entirely different game. Without random stuff it's pretty much a competitive fighter like Street Fighter but with it's own set of mechanics which don't exist in any other fighting game.

That said the community became completely insufferable once Brawl came out and everyone became butthurt one way or another. And it's happening again with Smash 4 so I'm mostly following things for old times sake but I don't actually give a fuck about the scene anymore :V

I've always thought of Smash as more like a party game, not a fighting game. Kind of excited to try out that Mario Party mode when we get it in the mail (hopefully tomorrow?).
I hear Mario Party mode kinda sucks compared to actual Mario Party

8 player smash is where it's at BV
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 01:41:37 AM by Suikama »

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 01:40:31 AM »
I've always thought of Smash as more like a party game, not a fighting game. Kind of excited to try out that Mario Party mode when we get it in the mail (hopefully tomorrow?).

Smash tour felt weird to me, I had trouble controlling my mii on the map... Oh and I've only tried it once but that's cause my game glitched, everyone "died" on the last match except for two and it said the match was over, but the two computer kept fighting in slow mo after the announcer and everyone ended up on the bottom of the stage unable to die. Kinda had to restart.
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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2014, 01:46:41 AM »
If by relatively recently you mean like 8 years ago :V :V

Well, yeah it was a while ago, but I could have sworn the fox only thing happened before that.

That said the community became completely insufferable once Brawl came out and everyone became butthurt one way or another. And it's happening again with Smash 4 so I'm mostly following things for old times sake but I don't actually give a fuck about the scene anymore :V
I hear Mario Party mode kinda sucks compared to actual Mario Party

I remember the melee vs. Brawl stuff. I don't remember it being that bad though, then again, I was 11 or 12 at the time.

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 01:56:32 AM »
Basically when Brawl came out Melee players got super mad that Sakurai purposely redesigned the game to be more like a party game with the removal of advanced techniques, simplification of physics, and the addition of tripping. It also split the community pretty hard, with some people willing to move on to give the new game a chance while others stuck to Melee. However some people weren't happy with Brawl taking any of Melee's spotlight so they purposely would troll Brawl tournaments and the overall smash scene kinda self destructed. Then Melee made a comeback in the last few years with the release of Project M and the Smash Documentary, but now that Smash 4 is out things are starting to go to shit again.

Meanwhile the entire time Smash 64 players gave no fucks :V

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 02:01:17 AM »
I have to wait until christmas because I don't have any money. Still, better than not getting it at all.

I still have the ability to brush up on my Marth in the 3DS version, though, and I'm trying to see how obnoxious I can make my Marth play.
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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 02:19:09 AM »
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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 02:42:36 AM »
Basically when Brawl came out Melee players got super mad that Sakurai purposely redesigned the game to be more like a party game with the removal of advanced techniques, simplification of physics, and the addition of tripping. It also split the community pretty hard, with some people willing to move on to give the new game a chance while others stuck to Melee. However some people weren't happy with Brawl taking any of Melee's spotlight so they purposely would troll Brawl tournaments and the overall smash scene kinda self destructed. Then Melee made a comeback in the last few years with the release of Project M and the Smash Documentary, but now that Smash 4 is out things are starting to go to shit again.

Meanwhile the entire time Smash 64 players gave no fucks :V
Yeah, the whole term "tourneyfag" derived from that iirc. It's kinda why I don't take the competitive community as seriously as others.

Anyways, putting my info:

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I don't have anything unlocked in my account atm because I was playing with my sis more on her account. Also don't expect me to try to get a lot of custom moves because I honestly don't care too much about em atm. :V

Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 02:43:20 AM »
I think unlocks are actually not account based for Smash 4 :V

ふねん1

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2014, 03:27:33 AM »
No ID info yet since I don't have either version or either system it runs on lol, but I do want to look into online play for the Wii U down the road. Even from what I've seen of the Wii U version so far, holy crap am I hyped up. I seriously want to try so many characters now, especially with their new custom moves. And there's the requisite metric crapton of modes and things to unlock to keep me busy. :V

I remember the melee vs. Brawl stuff. I don't remember it being that bad though, then again, I was 11 or 12 at the time.
The fact that it's still around after 6 years and is now creeping its way into the Smash 4 scene should answer your question.

I haven't been involved with the competitive scene since like 2009, so I can't say that I have a totally accurate read on the pulse of the community. I know that there are still people who will decry anything that's not Melee or even Project M (then again, every community is gonna have its toxic people), but I still get the impression the effect is less now compared to the original Melee vs. Brawl debate. I'm seeing a lot more people who like Smash 4 speak out about how much they like it. But as far as I'm concerned, if people can't accept that Brawl and Smash 4 should be judged by their own merits, that's their fault, not anyone else's.

Competitive Smash pisses me off. Like yeah, let's strip the game of all its features and everything that makes it fun. Ban a ton of stages. Ban items. Ban characters.

It'd be a lot more fun playing the game as it was meant to be played and I just cannot see the appeal. If you want something so strict go play Street Fighter or something.
"Fun" is subjective. Probably best if I leave it at that.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 03:29:07 AM by ふねん1 »
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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 03:41:31 AM »
Competitive Smash pisses me off. Like yeah, let's strip the game of all its features and everything that makes it fun. Ban a ton of stages. Ban items. Ban characters.

It'd be a lot more fun playing the game as it was meant to be played and I just cannot see the appeal. If you want something so strict go play Street Fighter or something.

As Funen said, fun is subjective. Competitive smash is not strict. That's Melee, and even then Melee is very relaxed for a competitive fighting game with a large following.

If I were to play Brawl for "fun" and not ban shit, I'd have a metric assload of random factors contending to whether I win or lose. Kat-Ana pretty much guarantees a lost stock, same with Latios/Latias. Also, let's not forget about the fact that Meta Knight is overpowered as shit. Marth is hilarious in Melee and Brawl, but he doesn't hold a candle to Meta Knight's speed, hitboxes, launch ability, etc.

The problem is that with competitive games you have people trying to win and therefore make the game less chaotic and fun. I would rather have a game where people not all use the same character. I would rather have a game where winning is based on skill and not "oh hey my Metagross that I got by random chance kept demolishing you kek" or "thanks for the extra five points, Gust Bellows :B" or some other shit.

I play to win but I still have fun trying to win. Plus, you have to admit that it's really satisfying to have a method of sending people across the screen faster than mashing buttons and hoping you use the right move. :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 03:43:27 AM by Esper »
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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2014, 04:38:43 AM »
You know, items are actually fun when you aren't trying to tryhard everything and just want plain ol' chaotic and casual fun. Brawl is actually fun when you do it that way.

Because of that I love the stages like the WarioWare stages. Playing minigames while brawling is hilarious and pretty creative.

If I wanted to play a game to win I'd rather stick to games like Under Night In-Birth or Street Fighter 4 (despite how hilarious some of the glitches are in that game atm). I enjoy the chaotic side to Brawl, which is why I absolutely love 8-man Smash.

Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2014, 04:48:54 AM »
meanwhile i just troll every fighting game :V

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2014, 04:53:32 AM »
Wow so I started to train my amiibo Marth personally and he's at lvl 10 and getting really close to being above my level. These thing are great for training yourself cause I feel like I'm playing against myself who just keeps getting better, sure is making me get use to the gamepad  though lol.

So are you able to do 8 player smash online at all?
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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2014, 04:59:20 AM »
Nope no 8 player online

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2014, 05:06:54 AM »
I personally prefer playing without items. 8 player smash already has a tonne of insanity, and adding on to that with items just makes everything a little too insane. Not to mention trying to complete the game's challenges has made me despise items, after all the Classic Mode nonsense. I'm also the type of guy who used to unwind playing League of Legends, so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt. :V

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2014, 06:13:52 AM »
I'm also the type of guy who used to unwind playing League of Legends, so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt. :V

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2014, 07:06:48 AM »

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2014, 10:00:51 AM »
Competitive Smash pisses me off. Like yeah, let's strip the game of all its features and everything that makes it fun. Ban a ton of stages. Ban items. Ban characters.

It'd be a lot more fun playing the game as it was meant to be played and I just cannot see the appeal. If you want something so strict go play Street Fighter or something.
Since I'm a bit into the competitive side of smash, let me offer you my perspective.
First of all, it's not that I want to play a competitive fighting game, it's that I want to play smash competitively. I suppose I shouldn't have to explain, but there's a thrill to knowing that you're mastering a certain craft, whether that be in gaming or in some other field. You want to test your knowledge and skills with others. I like smash a lot, so I want to play better at it. This entails playing with people better than you so you yourself can learn, practice, and further hone your playing skills. This is more or less the entire point of the competitive scene, at least for me.
It's still playing, it's not a boring strict thing that I'm enjoying. I'm having fun in the same way, just with a different mindset. Obviously, if people gather at a party just to play for casual fun it would be boring to turn off items, have a time limit, and restrict stages. That's why no one does that at a party scene: these features are all fun, that's why we keep them in.
With a competitive mindset, you seek to hone your mastery of the game. In the case of fighting games like this, the character you play as. You pit these skills you've accumulated against the skills of whoever you're playing against. This is a battle of skill and mastery: whoever has more is and should be the victor. It's where this 'should' comes into play that we have to start thinking of situations that would deny the 'should'. There's always the case where the one with the more skill/mastery loses anyway because that's just how the match worked out due to misses, slips, accidents, luck, misreads, outplays, etc. And then there are the cases where the victory didn't go to the one with greater skill/mastery because of a chance element, mainly due to the whims of the RNG goddesses. Here is where you have to start drawing the line and try to remove factors that can arbitrarily tip the match to someone's favor. The most important part being 'arbitrary' part, a chance element. This is especially the case when the arbitrary factor tips the match regardless of the skills of the competing players: a starman spawns on top of the winning player; a bob-omb spawns in front of the forward smash that would have killed the other player; both players get a pokeball, one gets a goldeen and the other gets a lati@s; ships randomly start shooting at you in Corneria; etc etc etc.  The chance factors impede the comparison of the opposing skills, thus we consider it and then take it out. This is what you mean by strict, but don't think of it like that. It's just weeding out elements of unfairness. It would be entirely unfair to the loser in a situation like this if he lost through no fault of his own. That's what the rules try to prevent.
I think the competitive smash community is rather well known for being quite bitter and needlessly toxic, but like any other absolutely disagreeable people, just ignore those. I have fun playing like this, and so do those playing with me. I also have a lot of fun playing without the tournament rules with other friends. I'm pretty sure the original Metroids weren't supposed to be sequence broken and speed run, but there are some that have fun doing that and the others that have fun playing it 'the way it was meant to be played'. I'm sure the same applies for Nuzlocke runs on Pokemon. The way a game was 'meant to be played' never has and never should dictate the way a person should have fun playing the game.
(The assholes that pompously declare their way of playing superior? Fuck them, ignore them, move on. Fortunately, this forum is devoid of those.)
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Garlyle

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2014, 10:34:04 AM »
The way a game was 'meant to be played' never has and never should dictate the way a person should have fun playing the game.
Thank you for this. I have the same kind of feelings towards Smash.

Competitive Smash may restrict things a bit with stages and items, but it is in no way less fun than a standard Smash, it's just different. It's a whole different experience that is definitely not targeted at the same people, with different feelings and ways to play. Fooling around with my friends is fun, I get it, I love playing with my friends like that, but I also love the thrill of a match where only the skill of players count towards the victory.

I get a lot of "If you want to play competitive and if you want to play to win, just go play Street Fighter". Why? Why the heck would I play Street Fighter for a different reason I am playing Smash? I play all fighting games with the same mindset. Sometimes for fun, sometimes for the win. Even in "dedicated" fighting games it's possible to play the same way you play Smash "normally". I remember playing BlazBlue with some friends where we decided to only use Unlimited characters, or another time in Street Fighter IV were only Dragon Punches were allowed (god, that was a stupid idea).

Smash allow for this kind of customization even further with items, modes, 8-players and even more stuff. Nintendo allowed for a level of customization that no other fighting game reached. If you can customize it to be chaotic and explosive, there is certainly a way to customize it to be fair for players to enjoy competitively, because if it wasn't enjoyable, there wouldn't be people playing like that.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 10:44:28 AM by Spotty Ren »

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Re: Smash 4 Thread #2 - WiiU Version Out Now!
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2014, 01:52:23 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 04:27:43 PM by Suikama »