Which characters got "twisted" or misused by the fandom the most?

[Miki Revolverhead]

I agree so bad with most of your opinions here, guys. I wish I could quote each one but it would take forever. Especially this one:

But what really grates my nerves most of all is "[X] is a slut". I mean really. It's not just that the 2hus aren't having sex (that we know of), because I get it that these "slut" accusations are not actually serious. But it's also a weird reflection of the casual misogyny that lonely virgin neckbeards love to throw around with impunity, into almost any game, no matter how non-sexualized it is. It's just strange, tedious and yuck.

It disturbs me SO MUCH. I'm aware that it's unavoidable than a game with a cast of approximately 99,9% women is obviously going to get sexualized, but it kinda gets off the limits when people portray characters as, say, Sanae (as much as I dislike her) as sluts or whores and it gets ACCEPTED on parts of the fanon and incorporated as part of the character. Ugh. 

I believe the cases that annoy me most apart from that are Alice being portrayed as an exaggerated tsundere and Shou as an inefficient employee who relies on Naz to do everything. Another thing that I hate that I also see portrayed lots of times is Eirin and Tewi joining forces to make Reisen suffer. I mean, while it's true in canon that Eirin does try her medicines on rabbits because she sees them as tools, Reisen is supposed to be her apprentice (to the extent that Eirin even gave her a surname), so I don't think she'd be that violent with her.

[Koneko]

Talking about what fanon did and how wrong some of those things are will take a good 300 pages discussion I think
But then again, I don't have much problem witht the fanon, maybe because that's how I get to know about Touhou, before those canon and stuffs

[GoKonRin]

lol I just came across this on youtube and immediately thought of this thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0l_Y7sp8m8

[Razzi Zadhna]

While writing a new chapter for my fanfic I got thinking about one meme I hate, and how it's emblematic of a certain strain of memes in the Touhou fandom.

I hate it when people are all like "hurr Cirno's a literal idiot". Cirno's not an idiot. She's a prideful fairy whose pride leads her to do rash things, like challenging people way above her level, making boastful claims, and failing to check for blind spots on her spell cards as Icicle Fall - Easy shows. If you asked me, Cirno's actually pretty smart and learns quickly--she just does rash things, which is why ZUN called her an idiot. She's basically a shounen hero, having the same kind of childish yet endearing "I CAN DO ANYTHING" mindset, except she to her misfortune lives in a world where one can't succeed solely by sheer force of will and egotism.

/////

Which brings me to my most hated memes in Touhou fandom: the fandom has a lot of memes which basically take characters and boil them down to "HURRR [X]" or "MUH [X]" and then they spam these memes fucking everywhere even though:

-They're not funny half the time and when they are funny they stop being such after being spammed 8 quadrillion times

-They often ignore interesting interpretations of the characters in favor for stupid-as-shit memes

I wouldn't care so much if these memes weren't usually some of the first things a new Touhou fan learns. And then they get a really distorted view of Gensokyo as this happy-go-lucky anime wonderland with quirky and weird waifus when it's not that. It can be that, and I don't mind those kinds of stories, but it can also be so much more. Hell, I'm guilty of this, I'll admit.

[Clarste]

While writing a new chapter for my fanfic I got thinking about one meme I hate, and how it's emblematic of a certain strain of memes in the Touhou fandom.

I hate it when people are all like "hurr Cirno's a literal idiot". Cirno's not an idiot. She's a prideful fairy whose pride leads her to do rash things, like challenging people way above her level, making boastful claims, and failing to check for blind spots on her spell cards as Icicle Fall - Easy shows. If you asked me, Cirno's actually pretty smart and learns quickly--she just does rash things, which is why ZUN called her an idiot. She's basically a shounen hero, having the same kind of childish yet endearing "I CAN DO ANYTHING" mindset, except she to her misfortune lives in a world where one can't succeed solely by sheer force of will and egotism.

She's also stupid, because fairies are stupid. Well, more like "innocent" I guess. They don't understand basic things like death. They're fundamentally childlike and ignorant.

[game2011]

I hate it when people are all like "hurr Cirno's a literal idiot". Cirno's not an idiot.

"Cirno attempting (and failing) to sell water-flavored shaved ice in Oriental Sacred Place"

[Razzi Zadhna]

She's also stupid, because fairies are stupid. Well, more like "innocent" I guess. They don't understand basic things like death. They're fundamentally childlike and ignorant.

Uh...I did mention that. That's why I compared her to a shounen hero. Also Cirno is not that average fairy, given that she's powerful enough to use spell cards and can at least moderately stand up to the cast. Which is probably why she's so bold, she is one of the strongest fairies (even if that's like being the fastest compact car in a world of sports cars) around.

To clarify: I'd say that Cirno isn't stupid: she does stupid things.

I still feel my "brash and naive jackass who does stupid shit due to her inflated ego" is more interesting than "HURRR SHE'S A BAKA NINEBALL" anyway. Much like how, say, portraying Reisen as an overworked Only Sane Woman in a world of crazy mystical shit is more interesting than "HURR USELESS BUNNY" and "HURR EIRIN'S TEST SUBJECT".

[Tengukami]

To clarify: I'd say that Cirno isn't stupid: she does stupid things.

Stupid is as stupid does!

I mean for real I love Cirno, love her childlike brashness and enthusiasm and all that, but she is really pretty dim as well. I just think it's part of her charm.

[Razzi Zadhna]

Eh...if it wasn't an insufferable meme I doubt I'd care as much. But the fact that it's a constantly spammed meme drives me nuts sometimes.

The fact that she's often the butt of jokes due to it irks me too. I just don't like the idea of the "butt monkey", and I don't like the other examples in Touhou fandom like "Mystia gets eaten by Yuyuko all the time", "Reisen is constantly picked on by Eirin and Tewi", "Sakuya pads" (especially since that one was triggered by the mere fact that a different artist drew for the fighting games), "Meiling gets beaten and abused by Sakuya all the time", etc.

Man these are all really old memes.  I've been out of the Touhou fandom for too long (dropped out around a little before Ten Desires came out, came back like...2 months ago), I've become that guy who listened to music in like the 80's and now I'm going up to modern listeners and am all like "god, I hate [OLD AND OBSCURE-AS-HELL 80'S BAND NO ONE CARES ABOUT]"  :V

[game2011]

"Cirno attempting (and failing) to sell water-flavored shaved ice in Oriental Sacred Place"

*quoting it to grab Razzi's attention*

[CyberAngel]

"Cirno attempting (and failing) to sell water-flavored shaved ice in Oriental Sacred Place"

Except that she's, you know, RUNNING A STALL. Besides, think about it. She's an ice fairy, she probably sees no problem with eating "water-flavored shaved ice" in winter. Heck, for all you know she did the same thing in summer and was successful, thus she decided to do it again. Just because she missed a few facts that are obvious to everyone else isn't a reason enough to call her "idiot". She's just childish, and fairies essentially ARE children, physically and mentally.

[Tengukami]

You are a very generous soul, C.Angel, but all those things do in fact indicate a pretty ... uh not smart person.

[Espadas]

I have to agree with Tengukami and the others. Cirno is possibly the smartest fairy in Gensokyo but their level is so low that it basically means she is smarter than a 8y old....

Taken by The Free Dictionary:

"stupid"

- Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
- Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
- Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless.
- Lacking in common sense, perception, or normal intelligence
- Trivial, silly, or frivolous

Cirno is practically the POSTER GIRL for "stupid"  :blush:

[CyberAngel]

I'm fine with our beloved idiot being called that jokingly, but when people try seriously arguing that she's an ACTUAL idiot it shows they have zero idea what they're talking about. "Idiot" is an actual medical term that refers to severe mental retardation. You can't seriously call small children that act like their age "idiots". They may be stupid, but they can't help not knowing things, even some that you'd think to be obvious. Not trying to make this sound like serious business, but when you know such things, seeing serious attempts to prove that point is really jarring.

[TresserT]

I have to agree with Tengukami and the others. Cirno is possibly the smartest fairy in Gensokyo but their level is so low that it basically means she is smarter than a 8y old....

- Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
- Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
- Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless.
- Lacking in common sense, perception, or normal intelligence
- Trivial, silly, or frivolous

Cirno is practically the POSTER GIRL for "stupid"  :blush:

I think it's mostly about perspective. Compared to a human, yeah, she's everything you just said. But compared to a human, so are a lot of things like, for example, a squirrel. If there were a squirrel who had the mental abilities of an 8 year old (they could communicate, do basic math, read and write) would you call that squirrel stupid? That squirrel isn't a rocket scientist but it is far more intelligent than most squirrels. You're basically saying "it's not good enough that the squirrel can do multiplication tables, it should be able to do long division as well". That's kind of ridiculous. Same goes for Cirno. From a human's perspective yes she's kind of slow, but from a fairy's perspective she's got every right to call herself a genius.

[Espadas]

I think i understand your point now. I can't speak for the others but i call Cirno an idiot/stupid because she act exactly like those definitions i posted before, but i don't go so far as to say she is actually mentally retarded. There is some space between "acting stupid" and "clinically retarded"....

One more thing i want to point out:

They may be stupid, but they can't help not knowing things, even some that you'd think to be obvious.

THIS. This is exactly the problem i have with Cirno and the main reason she is my least favourite char. I can accept not knowing things, i can accept acting like a child, what i cannot accept and mark her as stupid is KEEPING DOING IT!

Small kids do act foolishly, but THEY LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKE. After getting burned by the stove a few times, they start avoid it. After discovering that doing something hurt them, they learn to stop. Fairies doesn't have a normal concept of death but they do have a normal concept of PAIN, so they should act accordingly.

Cirno doesn't learn. She keeps going against beings that she witnessed many times are much stronger than her. For the love of God, if you take Hisoutensoku's as canon she willingly went into HELL to face Utsuho! An ice fairy going into a literal inferno..... /facepalm

If she made tons of mistakes or rash decisions once or twice i would call her simply childish. Since she keep doing it despite knowing the outcome i call her stupid.


EDIT:

From a human's perspective yes she's kind of slow, but from a fairy's perspective she's got every right to call herself a genius.

And i totally agree with this. Like i said she is probably the smartest fairy in all of Gensokyo, but she doesn't call herself the strongest/smartest while dealing with other fairies, she does so with anyone, despite getting utterly trashed by them.

[Prime32]

she is probably the smartest fairy in all of Gensokyo

I'd argue that Star Sapphire is smarter. Or at least... wilier?

[Drake]

who in the everloving fuck is ever trying to claim cirno is literally mentally retarded

what

[game2011]

Except that she's, you know, RUNNING A STALL. Besides, think about it. She's an ice fairy, she probably sees no problem with eating "water-flavored shaved ice" in winter. Heck, for all you know she did the same thing in summer and was successful, thus she decided to do it again. Just because she missed a few facts that are obvious to everyone else isn't a reason enough to call her "idiot". She's just childish, and fairies essentially ARE children, physically and mentally.

Who in the right mind would try to open a stall with the intention of selling something that people wouldn't buy?  And what claim is there that eating water-flavored shaved ice is nothing wrong since she is an ice fairy?  Where was it said that ice fairies eat that?

Think of it like this: little children usually like to eat sweet things, so it makes sense for them to think that other people like sweet things as well.  If they are given the decision to sell either juice or water, they will most likely choose the former because juice tastes sweet, and since they like it, they will want other people to try it out as well.

Therefore, the fact that Cirno thought selling water-flavored shaved ice really shows how much brain she has.

[CyberAngel]

And what exactly is wrong with unflavored shaved ice? If that was the only cold snack you had in hot summer, would you decline just because it had no special flavor? Besides, it's sort of a moot point - she did the same thing in WaHH chapter 21, but did add the flavor this time around. Except she still had no customers because it was, you know, cold outside. Which was my point actually - she's an ice fairy, there's no such thing as "too cold" for her, so it's harder for her to catch on with that one. Not because she's stupid, but because it's plain impossible for her to comprehend it. Don't just attribute to stupidity something that can have a viable explanation.

[game2011]

If your intelligence is average, you wouldn't consider selling something with no flavor to customers or sell the wrong kind of food in the wrong kind of weather and environment.  If something you like very much is something that is normally not well liked among other people, you should at least be smart enough to not shove what you like into other people's faces and expect them to like it.

It doesn't matter how good Cirno is at doing business, her intelligence is below average by human standards.  Words like "smart" and "genius" are not words you would use to describe her.

[Clarste]

Long story short, Cirno isn't the Platonic ideal of stupidity, but she ain't too bright either.

[Teewee]

I agree so bad with most of your opinions here, guys. I wish I could quote each one but it would take forever. Especially this one:

It disturbs me SO MUCH. I'm aware that it's unavoidable than a game with a cast of approximately 99,9% women is obviously going to get sexualized, but it kinda gets off the limits when people portray characters as, say, Sanae (as much as I dislike her) as sluts or whores and it gets ACCEPTED on parts of the fanon and incorporated as part of the character. Ugh. 

That bolded part...since when was sluttyness incorporated into her character? That sort of thing being accepted in fanon is common among many fanbases other than Touhou's, but it actually getting put in canon? What.

[Hideki]

That bolded part...since when was sluttyness incorporated into her character? That sort of thing being accepted in fanon is common among many fanbases other than Touhou's, but it actually getting put in canon? What.

As far as I can tell, that's never been canon to the game series.  What the bolded part is talking about is the fact that it's been referenced in fanon so much that it is an almost universally accepted fanon trait of Sanae, and people use it as sa part of her character n works that otherwise wouldn't have that interpretation of her character.

[Sparrow Song]

Seeing Mystia called chicken or food all the time gets really old imo. 

[Tengukami]

That bolded part...since when was sluttyness incorporated into her character? That sort of thing being accepted in fanon is common among many fanbases other than Touhou's, but it actually getting put in canon? What.

Yeah, as per the thread title, Miki is talking about fandom only; that fans have made this meme about Sanae a part of their POV on the character herself.

Seeing Mystia called chicken or food all the time gets really old imo. 

I guess Yuyuko is partially to blame for this, but yeah. It's like when someone calls someone a funny, teasing name one time, and the whole class thinks it's hilarious, and then they keep saying it and saying it until it's beyond done to death.

[game2011]

Momiji getting treated as a dog is pretty annoying as well.

[Teewee]

@Hideki and Tengukami: I see. Based on the wording, I figured he was saying it was such a popular fanon meme that it eventually got incorporated into canon, like Yuyuko's gluttony was.*

* Not all creators add traits in non-subtle ways. The way I see it, the gluttony was added but toned down a bit from the fanon original.

[H4xolotl]

Kaguya, Tenshi and Meiling are indeed among the worst victims but i always thought Yuuka got a strange situation....

It's practically canon that there is something "wrong" about her (the people interviewed by Aya are frigthened by her despite her totally passive demeanor, and Akyuu gives her the WORST possible ranks, even over confirmed human-hater like Medicine or slightly insane potentially lethal characters like Flandre) but the fandom twisted her BOTH ways:

1) "dark" twisted = Ultimate Sadistic Creature and similar, with obvious corollary of "Hello, punching bag Tenshi"

2) "light" twisted = Noukarin and similar

Personally i always took her as basically a really strong but peaceful person with a big teasing streak AND an hidden violent side (a remnant from her PC-98 attitude)....

I always thought she should be like Unohana from Bleach. Perfectly polite and non-threatening, yet even the violent members of squad 11 who have no idea who she is freak out when they meet her.

[Tiamat]

ZUN himself called Cirno an idiot.  It's in the PoFV manual.  And I don't just mean the infamous 9 picture.

From her bio:

"An ice fairy who usually stays at the lake, which is like her headquarters. She's basically just a fairy, so she's an idiot who loves pranks."

Also, personally, I found all three of the three fairies to be smarter. At least, if my memory is correct (been years).  They actually tried to comprehend intellectual matters on several occasions in Oriental Sacred Place and at least attempted philosophy at times, unlike Cirno.