Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 14F (Read 219672 times)

Totalheartsboy · « **Reply #840 on:** August 27, 2015, 03:15:14 PM »

Quote from: Kageshirou on August 27, 2015, 11:21:13 AM

Look like the same user has made more bestiary on later floors. Should I stop what I'm doing and change his one into numbers? (since two bestiaries, just different in how it's written, would be redundant)

I think you should keep going by doing the bestiary section as you started, since the Floor pages already explain the floor overviews about enemies encounter but not their weaknesses. and there is only info on enemy weaknesses for Floor 1 but the for the other Floors none.
Also its nice to see someone adding info about the enemies~!

Shadowlupus · « **Reply #841 on:** August 27, 2015, 03:41:08 PM »

Actually, he has done on Floor 2 and 3. That means he might do later floors too.

Anyhow, thanks for the reply. I will keep going for it then.

EDIT: I have decided to keep the separate Debuff resistance but I will leave out the enemies' drop.

jaxter0987 · « **Reply #842 on:** August 30, 2015, 01:22:03 AM »

Quote from: shadyangel on August 25, 2015, 11:08:15 PM

*LoT2 Mechanics and questions*

Other people have already mentioned a lot of key things for you to think about regarding game mechanics and character building but one thing you should keep in mind is that you can always redistribute your characters' Level Up Bonuses and Skill Points to cater to your needs. So while you were trying to fight Iku, you could have redistributed your tanks' stats to focus on HP, MND, and SPD and redistributed equipment to help deal with Paralysis and debuffs. You can consult the wiki figure out what kinds of attacks the boss uses, though for the people who've played LoT1, they already had exposure to most of the characters and thus knew what kind of attacks to expect.

In LoT1, Iku was a MAG character that had spells for enemy DEF debuffs and allied ATK/MAG buffs, as well as Paralysis so people who played LoT1 before probably had an easier first time fighting her than otherwise. You don't really need to have played the first game to play the second one but it kind of helps in a meta way.

On a different note, we really should refer to the stat bonuses we get from using the Library as "Library Levels" or something as the term "Skill Points" means something else in LoT2 than it did in LoT1.

This isn't the best video to show it, since I got pretty lucky with Hina's last attack missing but this is how you should be using Form Changes: Video

At 1:32 I was debating on whether or not to attack using Marisa's Magic Missle as my annotations indicate or to manipulate the ATB bar to time Marisa's turn to be right after Hina attacks to I could switch in Kaguya safely. Thats why I ended up using Concentrate a second time to further manipulate the ATB bar when it didn't work out exactly as planned since Concentrate has a delay of 1200, which is shorter than a normal Attack which has a delay of 3000 and a Form Change which has a delay of 2500. In hindsight, I should have just Form Changed Marisa to another slot in the front line to set her ATB bar to 7500, which would have made switching in Kaguya safer.

If you're wondering why I'm only using those two characters, this was part of my second play through of the game and I had decided to go with a synergy run, using only certain groups of characters that had synergy with each other. This particular one was MAlice Cannon, Residents of Eientei and two others which I won't name because of spoilers. If you'll notice, my Library Levels of the characters were ridiculously high at that point in the game but that's because I only had those two characters to work with and I knew that they would be part of my end game team.

Otaku · « **Reply #843 on:** August 30, 2015, 09:04:09 AM »

Does anyone have some tips for both the Iku and Yugi fight?

CF7 · « **Reply #844 on:** August 30, 2015, 10:18:40 AM »

Quote from: GanonVic on August 30, 2015, 09:04:09 AM

Does anyone have some tips for both the Iku and Yugi fight?

From what i can remember from the Iku's fight. Anyone who has high mind and/or resists wind is good. Also bring your earth nukers.
Kasen probably works best as a tank, since she has decent mind and resists wind element naturally, plus her earth spell can hurt Iku too. One of Aya's passive skills reduces wind damage taken when she's in the front. Minoriko is also good, since she can heal, her mind is really good, has some wind resistance and she also can attack Iku with her earth spells. I can't remember if you can find some glow crystals, I can't remember if you can find some Glow Crystals at this point, but if you have them give them to your mages as well.
And as always, keep defensive buffs up, heal when needed, switch your attackers when you think it's safe, when Iku uses her atk/mag buff on herself and surviving the coming attack, try to burn her remaining hp as fast as possible.

Yuugi. Hits really hard, but only has single target attacks, so try to raise your dedicated tank's defence as high as possible. She is weak to spirit, mystic and wind. Basically burn her hp down to 50% as fast as possible, switch avoidance specced Aya to the first slot and pray.
If Aya gets knocked out, and if you have Mokou, having her Ressurection skill maxed out with as much TP as you can find works too, but that kinda puts you on rather strict time limit. Basically it's more or less a rush race to defeat her before she oneshot everyone in your party with KOi3S.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #845 on:** August 30, 2015, 10:24:06 AM »

I'm just curious...but how do people like lot2 compared to 1? I love 2, it's a great game, and I enjoy it every time I play it...but...I thought 1 was better.. 2 has better art, more atmospheric music, better character customization. I think they really did a good job taking 1, expanding it in nearly every way...but somehow 1 was more fun for me... it's like the fine-tuned balance of the enemies and the bosses and the characters was absolutely perfect.. and in 2, it's good, but not absolutely perfect.

In 1, I had to play the game like a damn addict from start to finish, and when I finished it, I couldn't wait to start it all over again with a new cast... in 2. Despite enjoying it, I didn't have that drive, and I feel like too many bosses pigeonhole player strategies into def-ignore or glass-cannon tactics with their uncompromisingly high defense without necessarily having high overall difficulty.

But like I said, I still think it's a fine game, and I'm really biting my nails here waiting for that damn +disc! grrr...

Just curious what the other people experienced with both games feel.

Otaku · « **Reply #846 on:** August 30, 2015, 12:43:27 PM »

Quote from: CF7 on August 30, 2015, 10:18:40 AM

From what i can remember from the Iku's fight. Anyone who has high mind and/or resists wind is good. Also bring your earth nukers.
Kasen probably works best as a tank, since she has decent mind and resists wind element naturally, plus her earth spell can hurt Iku too. One of Aya's passive skills reduces wind damage taken when she's in the front. Minoriko is also good, since she can heal, her mind is really good, has some wind resistance and she also can attack Iku with her earth spells. I can't remember if you can find some glow crystals, I can't remember if you can find some Glow Crystals at this point, but if you have them give them to your mages as well.
And as always, keep defensive buffs up, heal when needed, switch your attackers when you think it's safe, when Iku uses her atk/mag buff on herself and surviving the coming attack, try to burn her remaining hp as fast as possible.

Yuugi. Hits really hard, but only has single target attacks, so try to raise your dedicated tank's defence as high as possible. She is weak to spirit, mystic and wind. Basically burn her hp down to 50% as fast as possible, switch avoidance specced Aya to the first slot and pray.
If Aya gets knocked out, and if you have Mokou, having her Ressurection skill maxed out with as much TP as you can find works too, but that kinda puts you on rather strict time limit. Basically it's more or less a rush race to defeat her before she oneshot everyone in your party with KOi3S.

Thanks for the help :3

Genericname · « **Reply #847 on:** August 30, 2015, 01:58:49 PM »

LoT2 feels too casual for my taste, choose the right skills and you can just breeze through it, grind 10 minutes for extra content maybe, really disappointing. Thanks to Ethan I learned that there's software out there to change the amount of exp you receive though, that fact combined with more customization, better graphics make it way better then LoT1 for me.

This contains some spoilers about obtainable characters, I don't know how to mark them as such, can someone point out how to do that?

Spoiler:

Also 20F Boss in LoT2 was really anticlimactic, I expected something epic like in LoT1, but nope, lame music, lame portrait and nothing special about the fight at all aside from relatively high defenses.
No more floors that absolutely require you to visit the wiki, I didn't like that in LoT1 at all.
Overall, LoT1 was more fun for me too actually, but I that was just because it was the first time playing a game like that, experiencing something for the very first time usually leaves a bigger impact. LoT1 was my favorite game back then, LoT2 is my favorite game now, despite all of it's flaws.

The rest of this message contains spoilers about a the boss, I don't know how to hide it, as I said. So all I can do is saying to not read any further if you don't want to get spoilered.

Spoiler:

<Shimatora> Added spoiler tags so I can approve this.

shadyangel · « **Reply #848 on:** August 30, 2015, 02:34:29 PM »

Hey guys just wanted to give a quick update, and some questions.
(Also big thanks guys, Iku got rekt, and I will have my revenge on her next time.)
So right now I'm on 19F and the strategy to redistribute stats from DEF to MND and vica-versa has been working so far against bosses.On 18F, after a quick check on the wiki I could beat the boss (3 golden orbs team) without much difficulty(well with Yuyuko's cheap DTH attack), though i always try to figure out the gimmick for the first few tries.However this late in the game, i have a hard time against random encounters as well.
It wasn't that bad on 16F and 17F but on 18F my girls were pretty much dead all the time because of those dark guys.I was really happy to reach the waypoint before the orb team combo, since escaping the battle was somehow a better option after I lost 1 or 2 members, but it looks like I'll have to face similar things on this floor too.
The minor problem is that these random encounters have enemies that do different kinds of damage and resistant to different things.So only focusing on MND didn't really help my tanks , neither only focusing on DEF did.I tried a different build, putting 1/3 of the stats to HP, then to DEF and MND, kinda hyprid, but I died just as fast (if not even faster).
The major problem is that, you know, I think that these guys should be handled by your rightmost person, the damage girl, because if they die before they get to take an action then it's all good right, but by the time she could attack , she's already dead because those monsters are too quick, ATB fills up instantly.
Also, these battles usually have similar monsters , usually 3-4 in a pack, though sometimes only 2 , and then the occasional rare monsters.They are usually weak against the same thing, though sometimes there is a guy who is resistant to that element, so you'll have to use another girl to kill those guys with a single target spell card , which isn't really problem cause those are strong anyway.
That's just a theory, but in reality the girls either die, have their mana stolen , or get debuffed to a point where they can't deal enough damage to win the damage race.
So damn quick.
On 19F, i found that Yuuka , and Kasen work well with their AOE NTR spell cards, though I admit that they are not the fastest, bulky rather.
Previously on 18F (tbh that was even worse, so far the 19F monster table didn't really scare me, and ofc now that i said that they will be angry) I was doing something else.
I was using Yuyuko for her AOE SPI spell card that inflicts DTH as well , with quite a high rate, which really did work well , but she was painfully slow.
So i swapped out Sanae for Aya, and basically, cheated my way through the dungeon with her.Since she was fast, she got an action immediately, so i filled Yuyuko's ATB bar with her card, and killed everyone without trouble, except for that 1 guy who was resistant, but a flying boulder from Suika got the job done.Gj girl.
But Aya ran out of gas too quickly. I could do that for like 3 encounters, then without Aya i was kinda hopeless, and considering the the warps and switches floors have, there are a lot of encounters.Edit: I also belive that the encounter % builds up faster, I could be imagining thinks, but it seems so, especially on areas you have been on before.
to face.
What do you guys think about that?How ofter do you leave the dungeon?Because man, i was teleporting back and forth, and had to go through those warpers over and over, I guess that is where difficulty comes from, but at least I memorized the whole maze haha.
I was thinking that i should use a naturally quick character, someone like Keine , Sanae and especially Byakuren, that you usually use to buff people, and build them for damage , though I haven't found a quick ,high damage AOE caster with the right elemental damage yet.So many criteria

.
I didn't try putting some points into SPD, not having enough damage is just as bad i think, and they just barely die, no overkill from me.
So yeah would like to hear your thoughts as well, I can't be the only one right? ...right?! :ohdear:

jaxter0987 : thanks for the reply, i kinda figured it out by now, (kinda) but the video did help.If only i could have seen it back then, oh man

, but thanks.

Sorry for the longs post (again) i just can't hold back.

Edit: Also what is plus disc? fill me in with the details pls

qazmlpok · « **Reply #849 on:** August 30, 2015, 09:34:05 PM »

PLUS-DISK is the upcoming expansion for LoT2. It's been in the works for a long time, and there haven't been many updates for it. There's no planned release date.

I don't think the title is confirmed, but that's what the expansion to the original LoT was, so it's probably the same.

Thata no Guykoro · « **Reply #850 on:** August 30, 2015, 10:14:37 PM »

I'd say I prefer 2. The character balance is a lot more viable (I've felt I've been able to shake up my team a lot, rather than pretty much always having to use the same 12 people in postgame that I did for LoT1), the game feels a lot more open to exploring and experimentation, and overall it feels a lot more polished. LoT1 is still very good imo, I just think the sequel is an overall improvement.

CF7 · « **Reply #851 on:** August 31, 2015, 10:06:26 AM »

I am not really sure. LoT2 improved a lot of things, but dungeons are kinda bland and bosses are not that hard or interesting mechanics or otherwise. And LoT1 had great boss battles. Eientei Trio, Yukari, Kourin and especially Mari. Mari was awesome, The Sword... Was not. But on the other hand more or less all the characters are good and there is a lot of opportunities for experimentation. So i guess, i kinda like them both for different reasons.

Spiffspoo · « **Reply #852 on:** September 01, 2015, 12:56:33 AM »

Quote from: Genericname on August 30, 2015, 01:58:49 PM

LoT2 feels too casual for my taste, choose the right skills and you can just breeze through it, grind 10 minutes for extra content maybe, really disappointing. Thanks to Ethan I learned that there's software out there to change the amount of exp you receive though, that fact combined with more customization, better graphics make it way better then LoT1 for me.

This contains some spoilers about obtainable characters, I don't know how to mark them as such, can someone point out how to do that?
Spoiler:
About character balancing, I feel like LoT1 has some bad characters, while in LoT2, you have only good ones, and then those who are even better, it's a bit weird. I'd say that LoT2 has more balanced characters compared to 1 though, since everyone can be useful in some way, without overleveling. I feel like playing defensive is more viable, in LoT2, which is nice. I remember trying a Patchouli-only run in LoT1, giving her a lot of defense. Needless to say, I failed at some point. It should be possible in LoT2 though, just waiting for Plus Disc to try out some odd builds. Also those synergy skills are just totally OP, at least the one I used for Rin, Satori and Utsuho... or maybe it was just Rin being OP, Satori and Utsuhi basically just had to be around to activate Rins synergy skill, Rin basically did everything alone with Extra Attack. LoT1 was also more fun because you had to be careful with what you do with your Money, no resetting everything to overspecialize your team for specific bosses, you had to go with what you have chosen. I ended up killing some fun for myself more then once after respeccing. This game needs a lot of self-imposed challenges to get the most fun out of it. LoT1 was unforgiving, (remember how we had to grind and grind, only to randomly die and reload the safe from 100 fights before?) that was what made it fun for me. Then again having to reload your game was a bit much, LoT2 still should have some kind of penalty for it. LoT2's Hard Mode was disappointing too, I don't like the game restricting me with what I buy.
I had more motivation with restarting and trying out different characters in LoT2, because characters are more unique as they were in LoT1.

Also 20F Boss in LoT2 was really anticlimactic, I expected something epic like in LoT1, but nope, lame music, lame portrait and nothing special about the fight at all aside from relatively high defenses.
No more floors that absolutely require you to visit the wiki, I didn't like that in LoT1 at all.
Overall, LoT1 was more fun for me too actually, but I that was just because it was the first time playing a game like that, experiencing something for the very first time usually leaves a bigger impact. LoT1 was my favorite game back then, LoT2 is my favorite game now, despite all of it's flaws.

The rest of this message contains spoilers about a the boss, I don't know how to hide it, as I said. So all I can do is saying to not read any further if you don't want to get spoilered.
Spoiler:
By the way, for those who played trough the extra content, on 21F after activating all the pillars, an unknown voice says something along the lines of "so the it was defeated by the likes of you...".
Do you think that was hinting at another entity that isn't the (maybe the dragon that was mentioned throughout the game), watching, or was that just the "Energy" that somehow came alive and then merged with the sword for the V2 version?

<Shimatora> Added spoiler tags so I can approve this.

The item distribution in LoT1 was terrible, you would get very good items early on, where as LoT2 you won't get the good items until the later floors. The LoT2 V1 final boss was much hard than the V1 Final Boss of LoT1, but is the exact opposite for v2. I two shot the ver 2 Sword, and I had to clear a good chunk of the append disk levels to even have a change against Maribel 2.

shadyangel · « **Reply #853 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:00:31 PM »

Well i just killed the final boss, got the clear game achivement. It was kinda tough i think, but having read through the previous pages here people seem to think that it's a pushover, so i may have been overleveled(well i don't really know because it said lvl 100 was the requirement, but avarage lvl was like 95 even though i grinded a bunch to get money, )

Any ideas on where i should be headed to next if I would like to continue this save file? I know there's something like "postgame" somewhere hidden , though i have a feeling I'm far from ready yet

.

Btw i had to retry a lot, changed my party a bunch, like i got rid of keine because I didn't have any time to use any of her skills.
Party:
Tank-Herbalist Tenshi, that boost was really nice, and the ability to get rid of buffs too.(was using first aid kit, ate some life gems too), though ran out of MP pretty quickly.
Strategist- Byakuren, Hexer Hina & Gambler Flandre...( don't judge , haha

)
Enchanter Reimu
Healer Minoriko.
Reisen-I gave her HP and made her tanky because pretty much the only things I wanted from her was Intense Vertigo passive and Discarder.
Kogasa -I may have underestimated her in the beginning, she dealt reasonable damage. and thanks to Reisen i was able to proc TRR most of the time.
Kasen- I was actually pretty disappointed with her performance, damage was poor compared to Kogasa, and the TRR infliction rate wasn't as high, but still nice to have her around.
Rumia - Her Dark side of the Moon card did more damage than i thought it would, previously I used Flandre- Laveaetin to clear the golems he summons because didn't know their HP amount, and didn't want to risk it, but a herbalist boost and this card killed them just fine.
Nitori- Super scope, she seems quite strong so far, carrying her around everywhere pretty much.
I didn't really know who the last person should be, I just put Aya in , because why not, though I ended up using 11 girls in the actual battle.Now that I think about it, it would have been wiser to give the Magician sublass to someone to help Tenshi.(I was thinking about Alice , I use her defensively for Trip Wire anyway, and I think her passive would have worked on him.)

The whole fight took like 25 minutes or something, (probably shorter), but I could have made it faster If was attacking more with Flan, but I was scared of losing her

Library levels were kinda high tbh, Nitori Flandre Kogasa Kasen had ATK at 100, the rest around 30-60, same with MAG for Rumia.
The others had defensive stats at around 60-80 as well as SPD. I kinda feel bad about it, but whatever he's dead

.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Validon98 · « **Reply #854 on:** September 01, 2015, 10:51:45 PM »

Quote from: shadyangel on September 01, 2015, 09:00:31 PM

Spoiler:

Spoiler:
The ending mentions thatMarisa previously owned the god sword or something, does this have to do anything with the first game?
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

As for which of the two games is better... I dunno. I think personally while I find LoT2 easier, it's a lot more enjoyable in a few different aspects, one thing in particular the idea of having forewarning on boss fights. One thing that I really didn't like with the first game is that if you just explore and are running along without thinking, you could run into a boss, be completely unprepared for it, die, and have to reload your last save. And if you haven't saved in awhile... that kind of really sucks. There's a few other minor things, like aesthetics, and such, but overall I do like LoT2 better. I do see why other people might like the first game better, but I don't necessarily agree. ^^;

RegalStar · « **Reply #855 on:** September 02, 2015, 03:52:49 AM »

Quote from: shadyangel on August 30, 2015, 02:34:29 PM

<random encounters>

Let Aya pass out free turns to people or make everyone Monks and give them Fast Dash. I never had any problems with random encounters that way.

jaxter0987 · « **Reply #856 on:** September 02, 2015, 05:04:11 AM »

Quote from: shadyangel on August 30, 2015, 02:34:29 PM

*stuff about random encounters*

Just have Aya on the front line and instead of giving people turns using Aya's spell, just swap them in from the back line.

Shadowlupus · « **Reply #857 on:** September 02, 2015, 11:36:14 AM »

For me, I find LoT2 more enjoyable. the characters are more polished and made to be better. (Like, Reisen has better Mind than that in LoT1) The mechanics like characters' skill system, Level Up redistribution and Subclasses provide an interesting and replay values. I can try several different possibilities of what each characters can do.

Also, one thing I like is LoT2 fixes one annoying thing in the previous game. when you select the Row-Target or multi-target skill, the game automatically transitions to spell animation. This would be a problem when I inadvertently pick a wrong skill and it happens countless times. (Like WHY does Ran's DEF, MND buff is placed before her ATK,MAG buff?) In LoT2, you are given a confirmation to reselect your spell in case you select it wrong.

I don't disagree with opinions like "The boss is too easy" or "Many bosses are pretty much walls with high DEF and MND" I see why many would think that. I could be wrong though.

To be fair, it has to do with the fact that this game gives you much more information like enemies' HP bar. since players can see/guess how much damage they must deal for a single character, they would focus on bull-rushing, nuking bosses in 2 turns or less and there you have the LoT2's boss fights in a nutshell.

For those who say that many bosses have high DEF and MND, the only bosses I can qualify as such are Tenshi, Magatama (Its HP and overall stats are surprisingly high at the point in the game) and postgame bosses (Yeah, I agree that they are unfair) I can't really say about the final boss though since I mostly use Flandre or Parsee who completely wreck it.

shadyangel · « **Reply #858 on:** September 02, 2015, 06:54:52 PM »

Thx for the replies.
Any tips for postgame areas?Boss rush done , though seems like my options are fairly limited, I could go recruit the last 2, but Shredding Amnesieri just kills the party. Started exploring extras too, though can't really progress further on 8F and 13F extras, random encounters also kill me (though using Aya so probably could run away a couple of times). Killed the first enhanced(well, managed to inflict DTH on him the first try...) boss but Shadow Poison Wasp is ridiculous , and to be fair, it's really only 8lvl-s above the final boss, but the difference is huge, I don't see any chance.

Battler · « **Reply #859 on:** September 02, 2015, 07:28:30 PM »

In case anyone's interested, I'm streaming more LoT2 here in ~30m.

Shadowlupus · « **Reply #860 on:** September 03, 2015, 01:46:21 AM »

Don't tackle those postgame bosses just yet. I suggest that you

1. Grind at 20F Depth, which gives a hefty amount of EXP, until your Level are at 150-200.
2. Your Library Points should be around your level. (This is somewhat mandatory since even a few level behind can make a difference, I could be wrong though)

I know the above process is tedious but I think at Level 108, you would gain like 20 Levels if you can continuously kill them in one turn until all of your attackers are out.

3. Farm more equipment at the extra areas. There are a few (currently) good items there. Look at Keine's Bestiary if you don't know what to get.
4. If you want to fight the postgame bosses at challenge Level (which only gives you more Gems/Manual), you can delevel at the shrine. Note that you don't have to delevel your Level Up Bonuses, you can stiull keep the excess with no penalty. (I think this is what the game/developer expects you to do.)

I recommend that you beat those 3 minions first since it opens more floor (And 16F extra gives you a lot of really great items) Shredding is the hardest one out of the three. The other two minions are laughably easy.

Shredding likes to spam the attack that cuts your front liner's Max HP but that can be prevented by having enough DEF and Dark resistances. Once it falls below 50% HP, it gains a single-target version that is very powerful. Shredding also has less chance to do the multi-target version. It has one cold nuke which only serves to give you a free turn since its Magic is terrible. Note that Shredding gains 24 SPD each turn. You have kill it quickly before it becomes too fast and regenerates all of its HP. Also, if it regenerates above 50% HP, it reverts back to its first phase.

P.S. If you run out of patience and want to cheese the postgame bosses, just use Diva Aya.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #861 on:** September 03, 2015, 05:01:18 AM »

I found Lot1 more difficult and Lot2 more friendly

At least in Lot2 you can see boss icons from away, instead of accidently bumping into them and losing progress to a wide party kill (Hello yuugi), and redistribute your level up bonuses, you could not do that in LoT1 unless cheat engine

Meanwhile,Lot1 bosses were WAY better than 2, i dont know if its their bullcrap mechanics, but i found it more exciting, talking about youmu,Eientei Trio,Mokou,Yukari,MANnosuke,Maribel

And lets not even talk about the post game ones:Utsuho damage race,Yuuka final spark,Eiki auto kill first slot,Beast of centaureas BOMBBEER

And finally the last three, serpent of chaos was the one who most impacted me, i sadly galaxy stopped WINNER to death, plus having only touhou enemy random encounters on the last floor was neat

Another gripe in LoT1 was that some unique drops werent 100% (Machine god lucifer,reactor,Regalia) i mean, if they are supposed to be the last bonus bosses, at least make their drops 100% man.....

And to end,Nobody is useless at LoT2,Lot1 had PLENTY of useless characters who couldnt do anything to contribute in the party

jester147 · « **Reply #862 on:** September 03, 2015, 10:19:25 AM »

Quote from: DarkAtma on September 03, 2015, 05:01:18 AM

I found Lot1 more difficult and Lot2 more friendly

At least in Lot2 you can see boss icons from away, instead of accidently bumping into them and losing progress to a wide party kill (Hello yuugi), and redistribute your level up bonuses, you could not do that in LoT1 unless cheat engine

Meanwhile,Lot1 bosses were WAY better than 2, i dont know if its their bullcrap mechanics, but i found it more exciting, talking about youmu,Eientei Trio,Mokou,Yukari,MANnosuke,Maribel

And lets not even talk about the post game ones:Utsuho damage race,Yuuka final spark,Eiki auto kill first slot,Beast of centaureas BOMBBEER

And finally the last three, serpent of chaos was the one who most impacted me, i sadly galaxy stopped WINNER to death, plus having only touhou enemy random encounters on the last floor was neat

Another gripe in LoT1 was that some unique drops werent 100% (Machine god lucifer,reactor,Regalia) i mean, if they are supposed to be the last bonus bosses, at least make their drops 100% man.....

And to end,Nobody is useless at LoT2,Lot1 had PLENTY of useless characters who couldnt do anything to contribute in the party

I agree, Although LoT1 is harder, the bosses were really entertaining. LoT2 doesn't have any entertaining ones, except maybe 9F and 12F Tenshi or RemiSaku.

About the drop, it was made that way because the bosses can respawn, but make it the drop more often at least, not 10%, that's too low even from respawning bosses. Even so I had been grinding for WINNER and I never get one Exoskeleton while I can get TWO Badges. WHY!?

Nobody is useless at LoT2, just because of subclasses. Nobody is useless at LoT1 too, if you have preset party for New Game+. Some characters have their niches.
For example:
Cirno is a fast PAR attacker, while having crap stats in everything else.
Wriggle is a poor man's Komachi with better defenses and excellent resistances on top of reliable PSN.
Reisen and Maribel has crap stats to compensate for their self-buff, if you build them well they will do massive damage.
Keine is Ran without the offensive capability and maybe lesser defenses with better buff, her buffs are better but frontline only and without MND boost, which is weird...
Patchouli is the best MND tank in the game that can also nuke everything unlike any other tanks and covers 4 elements and a piercing non-elemental spell. Her downside is her crap HP, DEF, and SPD. Especially her SPD. She needs support to do well.
Marisa has better stats than Patchouli aside from MAG and MND and way faster but sadly she only have MYS spells.

And any other things I can't think of...

Ghaleon · « **Reply #863 on:** September 03, 2015, 02:48:27 PM »

I know many people disagree but I find sakuya to be useless tier in lot1.

Her speed buff doesnt sell her for me because it isnt really a potent and controllable as ayas. And it just kinda screws with your character order if you have that tuned like I like to do with kaggy bowls and yukari spirits. And her nukes cant dent anything with the slightest of defenses, and while she isnt swuishy, she certainly doesnt have defenses that justify non existant dps (unless target has like NO defense).

Mokou is another really poor character imo.

Marisa imo is actually good because master spark basically makes her like a 5th slot character for dps... Its actually good late game if you dont try and wait for 1600mp. Just wait for a couple hundred (which doesnt take long cuz she is fast) and it still is extremely powerful unlrss target resists mystic well.

I use rans def buff all the time btw. It is nice being able to def buff squishier characters without having them out and vulnerable. Even a little bit like 20% is a large help for slot 4s vs row attacks.

Otaku · « **Reply #864 on:** September 03, 2015, 07:09:31 PM »

This may be a little off-topic compared to what's going on in the thread right now, but am i the only one who wants to see the Prismriver sisters appear in the game?

Genericname · « **Reply #865 on:** September 03, 2015, 07:11:52 PM »

Edit: Something to help grinding, don't use it when playing normally, as you won't be able to open locked chests.
Basically it disables some fade-in/fade-outs and disables some animations to improve fps.
I didn't make an extra file for just the spell animations since I already uploaded a cheat table for that.

Battle screen looks like this:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=295uyqv&s=8
Yeah, there's still flashy and spinning things that probably drop fps, but I just made this for myself and doing this much was enough without making the game look much worse.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=70500865214928631717

jaxter0987 · « **Reply #866 on:** September 03, 2015, 11:16:24 PM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on September 03, 2015, 02:48:27 PM

I know many people disagree but I find sakuya to be useless tier in lot1.

Her speed buff doesnt sell her for me because it isnt really a potent and controllable as ayas. And it just kinda screws with your character order if you have that tuned like I like to do with kaggy bowls and yukari spirits. And her nukes cant dent anything with the slightest of defenses, and while she isnt swuishy, she certainly doesnt have defenses that justify non existant dps (unless target has like NO defense).

Sakuya is fine until post game where SPD buffs become useless. Her speed buff also shouldn't be affecting turn order. At worst, it affects the time between turns but even then, SPD has diminishing returns so its not even too big a difference. She starts off as a mediocre trash clearer and ends up being a beefy SPD buffer until post game where I dropped her.

She's not useless but she's not one of those characters you'd keep from start to finish.

I don't understand how you all can say LoT1 Bosses were more exciting. The only thing LoT1 bosses do better than LoT2 bosses are the form change bosses.

Spoiler:

Everything else is comparable.

Spoiler:

all fall under form change bosses.

Plus we haven't even see Plus Disk bosses yet for LoT2 so we can't even compare

Spoiler:

, and we shouldn't really compare

Spoiler:

anyway.

My guess is the lack of excitement is purely due to the HP bar being present. rather than being in suspense the entire time. Having to wonder how long the fight will last / whether you can survive X number of more turns is thrilling in its own way, but I much prefer being able to see the boss HP bar. Having to count your damage to be wary of thresholds was another interesting thing to have to keep track off in LoT1.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #867 on:** September 04, 2015, 12:44:48 AM »

Great C can go die in a pit, thats the only enemy in the entire game that forced me to change my party setup to poison all 5 and have a chance to win

I consider Desire eater to be a equivalent to Serpent of chaos look wise, both look intimidating and menacing

I forgot to mention alice in Lot1 :V, i hated so much the 18f one way paths

Ghaleon · « **Reply #868 on:** September 04, 2015, 03:17:18 AM »

I'm not sure if my post was part of what was in min for jaxter's reply. I honestly don't know if I feel lot1's bosses are more exciting than 2 or not.. I just think they were balanced better. Like I said, I only played lot2 once so this is just my impression, not my judgement. But lot2's bosses later on felt more like you could't defeat them at appropriate levels without either a specific counter to them, or by having glass cannons, and then if you did have said counters or cannons, they'd drop like a hot potato...

The only example I can really think of like this in lot1 is yukari. If you have an ordinary party and you don't know what to expect, she's actually very difficult. If you have a nuke-oriented party, she's pretty normal... if you have atk suwako and some way to speed up her attacks, yukari is almost helpless. But asides from yukari, I felt like you could stand a chance against most bosses with any kind of party except for some weird parties that have no magic nukes or physical nukes for bosses like hibachi twins or bloody papa (was that his name? lol I forget).

Most people liked teh glass cannon characters in 1, and many of them really were high tier like nitori, kaggy, etc. But while it was pointed out lot2 only had a handful of super mega high defense bosses...they were kind of important milestone/climax bosses.. Like the equivilent of yukari, entei, mannosuke, maribel. I feel like I was cheated that the game's ultimate bosses were ALL of the "you must have a glass cannon focused party or else you'll deal 0s" variety.

Don't get me wrong though, I said flat out I think lot2 was in fact a better game, I just think lot1's balance wasn't just better...but it was specifically tuned for my own personal tastes, making it less about being objectively 'better', but a special thing just for me =P

Shadowlupus · « **Reply #869 on:** September 04, 2015, 07:25:37 AM »

Hello again, I've made the suggestion on the wiki's Character page. You know, LoT2's mechanics are much more complex due to the inclusion of subclasses so questions like "How to build X?" or "What subclass should I give to X?" are frequently asked (this is not a complaint). I think the suggestion page would answer those questions. Anyone who has suggestions can go edit there.

On the topic, IMO, the Desire-Eating Demon can go die in the Black Universe. It has the second highest HP in the game, pretty much immune to Magic attack, super lightning speed, can inflict ailments and debuffs which hinder your gears even more and that freaking 1 million damage Death attack which even targets randomly. What's worse, after it is used the first time on 4th turn, it is used again on every 2nd turn after that. That means 26 turns before Death to all party members provided all of them are nukers. Combined with its lightning speed, that is completely unfair. I know that it is supposed to be weak to Shock but...sometimes it's just pure luck if it doesn't proc.