Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 14F

[jester147]

Well, congratulations!

I see Aya on your team, what do you use her for? No mentions of her.
Aya is an excellent evasion tank and switcher.

[Kirin no Sora]

Well, yes. I did use her to buff my characters for speed and stuff. A pity that I did not realize that Flan would one shot Nitori and Wriggle in her first move(they both had over 100 resist, so it's not a matter of weakness, although maybe front liners need about 160 - 200+ resist to reliably survive it)...

She also can act at the start of any fight, giving me some control over it. And her evasion is very useful, only Flan's battle ending attack could down her.

But, in hindsight, I should of put Mokou up in the initial frontline to take hits and spam her WND move, as it debuffs her ATK and MAG with a high infliction rate, which would of made her attacks easier to survive in the first place. I also should of removed the Healer subclass from Komachi and set her up to use her SPI counterattack, as Flan is weak to SPI in the first place.

I have decided to learn from this and give Reimu the Healer class instead of Magician, as she simply can't get the time to actually use it very well. In fact, in that fight, she couldn't use it at all. I need a character that has Rapid Charge and a lot of spare skillpoints to make proper use of Magician, as Magic Transfer is not truly that effective until you max it out. This actually means that I'll need to get some good TP boosting equips for them...

I need to think a bit, but for now, I have Flan, and she is truly a slayer of everything that she sees. Her equips don't even boost her ATK at all, and she's hitting 4.5K with only 30 Voile level in ATK on a pure ATK build. To put in perspective, everyone else can barely hit 4k, and that's with both the same build, 70 Voile levels, and good Attack boosting equips. If I boost Flan the same way that I boost my other main attackers(ATK, MAG, and SPD at 60 levels each), then she's going to be a real slayer of all enemies in sight. And the funny part is that it doesn't matter which stat I power up, because she'll kill them all either way. I may just switch her level up bonuses to MAG and use any MAG powered subclass spells to crush foes, as her stats are enough to turn even mediocre formulas into enemy slayers(Toxicologist comes to mind, due to the elemental diversity those spells give, and the ailments are mere bonuses to the damage that they'll be dealing). And the best part is that she'll be able to use her L?vatein to full strength regardless of her build.

And now that I have said as such, I need to go and get her all buffed up for the battle against the celestial brat herself. Although...

She might not need much in the way of powering up to send Tenshi crashing into the ground with Starbow Break... Hee hee. 

[Serela]

Not quite Kirin; Flandre's attack growth is more than 50% higher than her MAG, 20 and 13.5. Flan actually only has a "standard" high-tier MAG like Satori, Marisa, Kanako/Suwako, Alice, etc. Her passive party buff also impacts the ATK stat. Monk or Warrior would still make her a lot more random-battle-friendly though, yeah. (But yes I imagine she'll easily crush Tenshi WELP BYE MISS CELESTIAL. I don't think most people manage to get Flan before that fight...)

I'd recommend Enchanter Reimu over Healer, as it makes her heal buff def/mnd whilst her buff heals a bit; however, if you want the sub's status heal and not just the 24% increased healing then that's pretty good I suppose!

[Kirin no Sora]

Well, a high end MAG stat is still good, so she can actually do some damage with the mediocre formulas from the other subclasses.  It bothers me that the ATK boosting stuff is much stronger than the MAG boosting stuff. This game is not kind to mages.

Also, the status heal isn't the only reason. I want the single target HP heal as well due to it being cheaper and also being a composite formula, and since I did boost Reimu's ATK via Voile(I actually do use Reimu's Fantasy Seal to clear out floor trash), the single heal will make use of that and the MAG stat, too.

Come to think of it, as crazy as it sounds, Flandre would actually be able to heal insanely well with the Healer subclass spell. The only problem is her surviving long enough to do so, but she is fast, so that might work somehow?

[jester147]

Flandre wouldn't even survive. The only one she would heal is herself, and then she couldn't keep up with the damage. She's better off dealing damage.

And yes, I think the game is not kind to MAG users. Even in the first game I found the MAG items lacking.

[Serela]

Lots of people can heal great with the healer subclass, the glass cannons need to be nuking :V The support role is better suited to people who are durable, or at least have a lot of other supportive effects to bring to the table.

And yeah, the ATK gear tends to be more plentiful/better. But, it's not a big deal. It does mean you don't want too many MAG-based attackers in your party though, as you won't be able to dole out good equipment... a well-built party shouldn't end up so one sided though.

[Kirin no Sora]

And 12F Tenshi down. And I found that Flan can't even hurt Tenshi unless she's debuffed. WTF?

I did find that I had plenty of characters that can do well in surviving Violent Motherland, and I had never ran into the HP to 1 move that the wiki says that she has. Maybe I killed her too fast?

In hindsight, I think that the advice on having people who pierce defenses without the Monk subclass(Kaguya, Eirin, Reisen, Okuu, Meiling) is indeed sound. She's a real pain otherwise.

Speaking of Kaguya, I gave her the Toxicologist subclass for the CLD element spell, since I knew that her passive would make it so that it could do decent damage for dealing with the 13F floor trash, and it truly does the trick. Of course, Nitori does better as she can crush even CLD resistant foes with her CLD spell, but that's due to her passive and the spell itself being maxed out. Still, I was right about the elemental spread of Toxicologist being of great use in certain cases, and Kaguya proves it.

Also, I'm seeing the hell that is the temperature maze, and it is not pretty. I think that the game expects you to leave the dungeon after setting the temperature, and then come back to enter certain areas. This is going to irritating. Oh well, at least the random battles have new music now, and I actually unlocked the final event to get to Yuuka. I wonder if I should just use Flan on her...

[jester147]

Eh, 13-15F. Think of it as 10-12F from the first game, except there's also falling into holes. I think Suwako is great for clearing floor trash there, provided you invested magic a little.

[Spiffspoo]

Eh, 13-15F. Think of it as 10-12F from the first game, except there's also falling into holes. I think Suwako is great for clearing floor trash there, provided you invested magic a little.

The Cirno is beyond broken for trash here.  Any other character with AoE Water spell cards are good as well.

[jester147]

LoT1, beaten Baal Avatar, now stuck beating Agastobrauma. Where's the best place to grind in postgame anyway? 24F isn't enough for me...

[vetokend]

LoT1, beaten Baal Avatar, now stuck beating Agastobrauma. Where's the best place to grind in postgame anyway? 24F isn't enough for me...

I get the impression you don't have access to 27F, but to address the question of best postgame grinding spot, that'd be my answer.  That is, unless you're powerful enough to faceroll 30F.  You face enemies on 27F called "Lilith", I believe, that give a ridiculous amount of skill points, and are pretty common.  Plus, some decent drops occur (like fusion titanium alloy) and can pile up pretty fast.  I grinded out at least 100 levels and a few million skill points (mainly from letting materials pile up and selling in big quantities) on that level.  Music is recommended!

Veto

[Spiffspoo]

LoT1, beaten Baal Avatar, now stuck beating Agastobrauma. Where's the best place to grind in postgame anyway? 24F isn't enough for me...

What level are you?  I don't remember having to grind a whole lot until after I got Eiki for the expansion.

[jester147]

Lowest level is Rinnosuke at lv198, and then I have Remi at lv204 and Patchy at lv205.

[Spiffspoo]

Lowest level is Rinnosuke at lv198, and then I have Remi at lv204 and Patchy at lv205.

How many stars do you have? I think I had 4-5 when I first started the expansion.

[jester147]

How many stars do you have? I think I had 4-5 when I first started the expansion.

5 Stars, how else am I stuck at Agastobrauma? To get there it requires 4 stars to enter.

[Spiffspoo]

That is a bit low level when you get to the mid 20 floors, but 210 should be doable on floor 25.
Make sure you have good elemental resistances, I think he deals a lot of wind damage, and then some death and other aliment resistance gear.
Mystia is good for getting rid of bad statuses.

Don't forget to debuff him, and Tenshi is good for getting rid of his buffs as well.  Getting yourself buffed up is a high priority.
If you are dieing to raw damage, keep out a Def/Mnd Buffer a lot of the time like Reimu or Yukari to keep it up.

The fight will probably take more than 15 mins before level 220, so be prepared.

You might actually have to grind out for items more than levels for a bit to make sure you have everything you need.
I did that for the initial Yuyuko fight since I would always lose to her instant death more than anything until I got several death resistance items.

[Serela]

You're a bit low levelled (your reference level is generally Reimu's though) so you're going to have to grind sooner or later. 20F is still honestly the best spot to do that, iirc the randoms don't really start giving more experience yet? Although they -do- have nicer gear drops on the next floor. Although even if you beat Agastrobrauma, the next floor is a step up in random battle difficulty, and the boss there is much harder as well.

[jester147]

Aaaaaand Agastobrauma defeated, and got the loot! The level is Reimu lv. 226 by the way.

The fight is really luck based though, once it starts using Strengthen Jutsu it's the matter of it using weak Plasma Touch or unleashing deadly multi-target magic attacks.
Mystia proves to be really useful in the battle, healing any status ailments the party might had. I gave her some speed items for healing needs.

And so, off to the next challenges!

[Kirin no Sora]

And Yuuka down. And I won using the power of kappa, surprisingly enough, since Nitori can hit with a weakness and actually hit as hard with her CLD spell as Flandre does with Levatein. Does the CLD Damage Boost and maxing the spell out really make that much of a difference? Much as I would like to say yes, I can't shake the feeling that Yuuka is actually weaker to CLD than FIR. Nitori also had around 4k ATK power which is the same as Flandre at the time, and well...

Here are the formulas, straight from the wiki...

Nitori's formula:
((110% ATK) - (50% T.DEF)) * (1.805 + (0.095 * SLv))

Flandre's formula:
((180% ATK + 180 MAG) - (50% T.DEF)) * (2.28 + (0.12 * Slv))

...and I just read the entry for the Yuuka fight and she is indeed weaker to CLD than FIR. Fancy that.

Still, it's odd to me that Nitori is matching Flandre in terms of damage here. Makes me curious as to how powerful Levatein would be if I leveled it up to maximum, given the damage multiplier...

[jaxter0987]

Aaaaaand Agastobrauma defeated, and got the loot! The level is Reimu lv. 226 by the way.

The fight is really luck based though, once it starts using Strengthen Jutsu it's the matter of it using weak Plasma Touch or unleashing deadly multi-target magic attacks.
Mystia proves to be really useful in the battle, healing any status ailments the party might had. I gave her some speed items for healing needs.

And so, off to the next challenges!

I'm surprised you didn't have any debuffers/ Tenshi to deal with Strengthen Jutsu. I always hated that move so I was really happy I kept Alice throughout the game when I realized she can help negate its effectiveness.

Also what? Status Ailments? Shouldn't you have been geared to be nearly immune to them by now? At the very least, the people meant to be taking hits should already be immune to them by now. I remember my main problem with the fight was me simply lacking the stats to handle it.

[Serela]

Still, it's odd to me that Nitori is matching Flandre in terms of damage here.

Surprising, but if Yuuka takes 50% more damage or more from CLD than FIR, plus Nitori's passive boosting CLD damage by I think 30% at max... (and I guess maxing it is also like 20% more damage)

[jester147]

I'm surprised you didn't have any debuffers/ Tenshi to deal with Strengthen Jutsu. I always hated that move so I was really happy I kept Alice throughout the game when I realized she can help negate its effectiveness.

Also what? Status Ailments? Shouldn't you have been geared to be nearly immune to them by now? At the very least, the people meant to be taking hits should already be immune to them by now. I remember my main problem with the fight was me simply lacking the stats to handle it.

I did use Tenshi and Reisen, but they died later in the battle. And for the status ailment, it's hard to gear up everyone to protect all status ailments without losing important stats, so yeah, I need status healers for mainly healing the nukers. By the way, I'm using Iku as a tank.

[jaxter0987]

I did use Tenshi and Reisen, but they died later in the battle. And for the status ailment, it's hard to gear up everyone to protect all status ailments without losing important stats, so yeah, I need status healers for mainly healing the nukers. By the way, I'm using Iku as a tank.

I don't know, I never had problems getting everyone meant to take hits to be immune to status ailments while still having the necessary defensive stats. Maybe its just confirmation bias doing its thing to me, but I want to say I remember not worrying about status ailments when I got that far into the Plus Disk.

And Iku as a tank is exactly how I'd be using her. Buffers = tanks as far as I'm concerned unless they're self buffs, but even then, there are self buff tanks (Hey there Remilia, I'm glad you're enjoying your stay on my endgame party).

[ZXNova]

Has there been new information on the expansion of LoT2?

[qazmlpok]

Nothing on his site.

A quick search of his twitter shows a long multipart tweet that mentions LoT2, made about 14 hours ago. I think he's talking about game balance, possibly to avoiding the massive level inflation from LoT1's plus disk? I can't say for sure with just google.

[Sungho]

The developer says that the game was balanced so that
Beginning : Doable with spell attacks.
Mid-game : Doable by properly allocating level-up bonuses to attackers.
End-game : Doable with above + hitting weaknesses.

But in the Plus Disk, the developer will balance the game so that it will be hard without proper preparations,
and for rare enemies, there might be casualties even with proper preparations.
To balance this out, the developer will reduce encounter rates and give more experience points so that it changes from
'10 to 30 battles per 1 exploration' to 'party is almost wiped out after 10 battles due to TP reduction, but uses less time battling because of above changes.'

This is about non-boss enemies, by the way.

[jester147]

But in the Plus Disk, the developer will balance the game so that it will be hard without proper preparations,
and for rare enemies, there might be casualties even with proper preparations.
To balance this out, the developer will reduce encounter rates and give more experience points so that it changes from
'10 to 30 battles per 1 exploration' to 'party is almost wiped out after 10 battles due to TP reduction, but uses less time battling because of above changes.'

Okay, now that's gonna be frustrating. If this was LoT1 people would rage away from all the lost experiences.
Well, at least we can level up fast.

[Serela]

That sounds great, really. Random battles are more of a chore than anything else and grinding is meh. This way, even if the time vs. experience ratio is meh at the start, once you can overwhelm them the grinding speed is much higher. (Of course, this game uses level limits, but even hard mode is lifted for post game.)

And also, more interesting random fights! Although, if it was just from TP reduction... well, less grind in your exploration either way.

[DarkAtma]

I Still have false hopes for rebalance

Glares at nitori*

Stares at underused/Weak characters*

[Serela]

Just curious, which characters would you say are not worth using? (Anyone can answer though of course)