Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 14F

[jaxter0987]

I just Death'd the Magatama on 12F... I didn't even know it was possible without Reisen's Intense Vertigo...

I was on my last leg so I figured I'd just use Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana just cause and it happened to Death it.

[Kirin no Sora]

Was Yuyuko on the Toxicologist subclass at the time?

[Monothemeerp]

Might have been able to keep the wind crystal up instead of fire, I just don't know what it does since I accidentally instant killed it the first time I fought him with Yuyu and just kept doing it  :V

It has Calming Scent.

I think that should speak for itself

[jaxter0987]

Was Yuyuko on the Toxicologist subclass at the time?

She didn't have a subclass. I double checked my set up right after and there really was nothing that aided in inflicting Death. I wish I had the reaction speed to screenshot it as it was happening...

[Kirin no Sora]

Well, I guess that explains why Yuyuko doesn't have Sheer Force as a skill: she doesn't need it to Death stuff.

Of course, given that she herself isn't normally available until the fire stratum, I'll presume that you're using a New Game + to pull this off, yes?

[jaxter0987]

Well, I guess that hat explains why Yuyuko doesn't have Sheer Force as a skill: she doesn't need it to Death stuff.

Of course, given that she herself isn't normally available until the fire stratum, I'll presume that you're using a New Game + to pull this off, yes?

Yeah, its my third play through of the game using characters that I didn't use in my other play throughs. Still quality checking the rest of the translation before the latest translation patch and enjoying the story for once while I'm at it.

[ZXNova]

I just Death'd the Magatama on 12F... I didn't even know it was possible without Reisen's Intense Vertigo...

I was on my last leg so I figured I'd just use Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana just cause and it happened to Death it.

A friend of mine actually suggested I should death the magatama/mirror shadow. It it indeed possible without intense vertigo/toxicologist, but the chances are incredibly slim.

[DarkAtma]

Has nobody stopped for a moment and wondered how a big tree got things like

First floors: A forest, okay normal so far
Next: Water, you assume its the water the tree is absorbing to sustain itself
Next: Jungle, Normal still
Next: A burning forest, Maybe tenshi set the thing on fire trying to take out some characters from interfering
Next: Desert, Maybe the forest fire already ruined these floors
Next: Dark and dusky Pitfalls, Seems something you would find inside  yukari gaps
Final: Heavenly Top of tree, Looks like you have reached heaven and looks celestial

Not to mention all the monsters,FOE and bosses inside it

[jaxter0987]

The desert came before the burning forest and no I never stopped to think about it because its a Touhou game and a LoT one at that.

[qazmlpok]

Not to mention all the monsters,FOE and bosses inside it

Personally I've always felt that the characters are the oddest part of the dungeon, namely the ones that got really far in. They managed to do alone what you needed a group of 12 to do. Especially when you have ones like Keine in LoT1, who got very deep into the postgame area without even having very good attacks.

[Spiffspoo]

Personally I've always felt that the characters are the oddest part of the dungeon, namely the ones that got really far in. They managed to do alone what you needed a group of 12 to do. Especially when you have ones like Keine in LoT1, who got very deep into the postgame area without even having very good attacks.

They were "bosses" before they joined the group, even if you didn't fight them.  :V
When they joined you they just magically got weaker or you beat them up previously.

A lot of games are like that actually, sometimes it has no real story relevance and is mainly for gameplay, as in LoTs case.

[ZXNova]

Rather than just magically get weaker, I'd like to think they're just holding back now that they're in a group.

Or in a more logical sense, they actually didn't get weaker. The monsters/bosses just got stronger. Along with some other mumbo jumbo.

[Pesco]

[ ] Magic
[ ] Eirin's shady new drug
[ ] Yukari fooling around again
[ ] A Moriya shrine conspiracy

Pick one

[Kirin no Sora]

[ ] Magic
[ ] Eirin's shady new drug
[ ] Yukari fooling around again
[ ] A Moriya shrine conspiracy

Pick one

I like to add "It's because they became protagonists" to the list of forbidden templates, if I may.

Also, has anyone tested how effective Hexer's Conversion is with Iku? I only have hypothetical knowledge here, not actual experience, and I would like to know how useful it is in practice for those who use her. I hope that no one minds that I ask about this...

[Spiffspoo]

I like to add "It's because they became protagonists" to the list of forbidden templates, if I may.

Also, has anyone tested how effective Hexer's Conversion is with Iku? I only have hypothetical knowledge here, not actual experience, and I would like to know how useful it is in practice for those who use her. I hope that no one minds that I ask about this...

I stopped using Iku after a while since she was pretty slow and there were better de/buffers.
If she was faster, I might have used her more to find out what would have worked well with her.

[Serela]

RE Hexer's Conversion on Iku:The def/mnd debuff is brutal, she'd just fall over dead. (I don't -think- flexibility works in the way where that'd work out, but if it leaves it as a debuff for other intents and purposes I guess it'd be good? ...huh, I never used those passives.) Assuming Flexibility just calculates debuff skills into buffs it's still a good tactic to use the move on herself though. Also helps with that speed thing you were mentioning, since her spd buff turns into a spd/def/mnd buff! Interestingly, you want to leave it at lv1 to use it like that... although, if you max it then it only debuffs by like 12% and becomes usable on everyone. So, it's a tradeoff.

Although jeez I probably should test how that works now. But I'm lazy.

[Kirin no Sora]

RE Hexer's Conversion on Iku:The def/mnd debuff is brutal, she'd just fall over dead. (I don't -think- flexibility works in the way where that'd work out, but if it leaves it as a debuff for other intents and purposes I guess it'd be good? ...huh, I never used those passives.) Assuming Flexibility just calculates debuff skills into buffs it's still a good tactic to use the move on herself though. Also helps with that speed thing you were mentioning, since her spd buff turns into a spd/def/mnd buff! Interestingly, you want to leave it at lv1 to use it like that... although, if you max it then it only debuffs by like 12% and becomes usable on everyone. So, it's a tradeoff.

Although jeez I probably should test how that works now. But I'm lazy.

Actually, if I read the nature of the debuffing on that spell right, it gets stronger but gains a lower chance of affliction. And I did actually ask about this earlier...

A few questions about Iku and the Hexer subclass...

0297   Whiskers of the Dragon God
      Lv 1   + 56% SPD, -60% DEF/MND 140%
      Lv 2   + 60% SPD, -68% DEF/MND 130%
      Lv 3   + 64% SPD, -76% DEF/MND 120%
      Lv 4   + 68% SPD, -84% DEF/MND 110%
      Lv 5   + 72% SPD, -92% DEF/MND 100%

Apparently, the debuff for this spell increases as it levels up, so this spell is clearly meant to be used with Flexibility. My questions are this...

1. Does the Hexer's skill to strengthen debuffs affect the debuffs on this spell?
2. When Flexibility activates, is the debuff removed from Iku? Because if not, then that would mean that Hexer's Conversion could be used here to great effect, helping her as it does for Chen, and unlike Chen, Iku can actually use the HP recovery to help her stay alive, which would help her immensely for the sake of being a support type(not to mention that gaining the power to debuff Mind synergies with Heavenly Maiden's Blow(doubles the effect of Mind debuffs when Iku attacks with anything)).

No the debuff is still there for Hina and other characters that work off debuffs.

Then Iku can use Hexer Conversion from the debuff? That would really be good if she could.
I'm editing the wiki as we speak, so knowing whether or not the Hexer's skills would benefit her would help out a lot. I hope that I'm not being pushy by asking here...

The debuffs are still on her as debuffs and interact with the Hexer skills.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, Whiskers is a self buff, meaning that Iku can only use it on herself. This kind of makes sense as she's the only one who can use that spell so effectively once Flexibility is turned on.

[jaxter0987]

Also, unless I'm mistaken, Whiskers is a self buff, meaning that Iku can only use it on herself. This kind of makes sense as she's the only one who can use that spell so effectively once Flexibility is turned on.

Whiskers is most certainly not a self buff. With enough resistances, Iku is an absolutely great offensive buffer imo (until you get buffing god Byakuren of course). Iku isn't the only character with Flexibility and with debuff resistance, the draw backs of Whiskers is hardly anything.

I've been using Iku as part of my party of 12 characters I never really gave a chance to. While I can't say for certain since I haven't gotten to that point myself, I'm pretty sure shes similar to how she is in LoT1: a risky offensive buffer until your team can be made PAR immune. When I HAVE gotten Stickleback to not paralyze Parsee and Kasen, they wreck faces. And since I have Hina in the party, I'm already trying to get most of my characters to be highly resistant to debuffs anyway.

Also, for your question about whether Hexer's Conversion works on Iku: without actually trying it out myself and based on what I've experienced, I'm inclined to believe Hexer's Conversion doesn't really work on Iku. Unlike Hina, Iku has to frequently use Whiskers to keep herself debuffed and you're basically using the cost of Whiskers for a small HP and MP regeneration. There's probably a balance where you don't keep yourself fully debuffed but still enjoy enough HP and MP regeneration to make the frequent casts worth it but I would think its difficult to find that balance.

[Kirin no Sora]

Well, to be fair, it was said on the wiki that Chen could benefit from the use of Hexer's Conversion to keep her MP powered up without the need for Beat Down thanks to her buff, so I figured that since Iku could do the same thing, but better, since she becomes bulkier from the debuff thanks to Flexibility, and Iku can benefit from the HP regen, even if it isn't that much to begin with. And Whiskers is her least expensive spell at 3 MP, so it's not like she couldn't just use this on herself to increase her survivability and then quickly help out others with her other spells. Basically, my thought on the subject is this: if this skill can power a Chensaw, then it can power a electric oarfish.

Also, if you've only tried Hexer's Conversion with Hina, then that would skewer the results a bit, since Hina only gets 1/3 of the effect that it would deliver otherwise. And I'm not saying that the HP regen would be uber-tier, just that it would help her out a bit. It certainly couldn't hurt, right?

Edit: On a completely different note, I need to ask if posting this link that I found on the previous LoT2 thread up on the first page of this topic would be against the rules...

http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852

I also found this as well, as a set of instructions on how to download from said site...

http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc

If anyone can tell me, please let me know. Thank you.

[Kuilfrayt]

Edit: On a completely different note, I need to ask if posting this link that I found on the previous LoT2 thread up on the first page of this topic would be against the rules...

http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852

I also found this as well, as a set of instructions on how to download from said site...

http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc

If anyone can tell me, please let me know. Thank you.

I don't think it would be against the rules, if anything, it would be a good idea, to give people who don't have the game a way to get it for themselves in a legitimate way.

[Kirin no Sora]

Thanks, Kuilfrayt. I'll go do that right now...

Edit: and it's done. I really do hope that this is okay...

[Axel Ryman]

Posting to say Ethan has provided values for Passive Skills


Here's the link to the text itself.
http://textuploader.com/6s2t


That is all.

[Monothemeerp]

Posting to say Ethan has provided values for Passive Skills


Here's the link to the text itself.
http://textuploader.com/6s2t


That is all.

Holy crap, so level 2 of Blazing/Froggy Power/those skills blah blah blah increases/reduces damage dealt/taken by a whopping 30%? That's huger than I thought.

[Starxsword]

Yeah, the bonus seemed pretty big when I was trying it out. Sanae in party with a spirit magic user boosts the spell fairly significantly.

[Axel Ryman]

I just noticed that The Shinigami's Work wasn't listed, so I don't know how much it increases the chance now.


Ah that's fine. He's done so much I won't bug him for one little skill.

[Kirin no Sora]

A note on Hexer's Conversion:

Hexer's Conversion
   The user will recover 0.25% HP per point of debuff and 1 + 2% MP per point of
   debuff. Of course, the recovery is reduced by a third for Hina.

If this is correct and a point of debuff is the same as "1% debuff", well...

Edit: The reason behind my post is simple. If this is true, then a single -50% debuff would restore 100% MP...  I somehow think that a "point of debuff" means something else MP-wise. HP-wise, it's a bit less broken, since the same debuff would restore 12.5% HP(which is a bit more than the 10% HP regen from the Regeneration skill), which doesn't sound broken until you realize that one can have two of these debuffs easily from some of the buff spells that exists in the game(Kimontoukou and Whiskers are two notable examples, with the latter being able to target any ally, rather than just the user), which means a 25% HP regen. Of course, said regen would degrade due to the debuffs degrading, so it's more like a 15% to 20% HP regen at first. Still, a near complete restore of MP after a single cast of Whiskers with Hexer's Conversion is rather OP, isn't it?

I would want to think that a "point of debuff" means "for each separate debuff", but then there would be no need to weaken its effect for Hina, as the max for five debuffs would be 1.25% HP and 1+ 10% MP regen. What I think is needed is a clarification as to what a "point of debuff" actually means in game terms. I would ask Ethan myself, but I don't know his e-mail address and as he himself have stated, PMing him is not the best of ideas for a prompt reply.

[Starxsword]

I am not quite sure what that means, but it has to be quite potent, otherwise there would be no need to nerf it to 1/3 of its value for Hina.

[Serela]

It might be 1 + 0.02 mp (I don't know which way the rounding would work) for hexer's conversion? A full debuff for one stat would be 1 point of mp, so Hina would get 6 per turn (but then pushed down to 4 by her nerf on it?)

The easiest way to check would be for someone to actually see what happens ingame with a little Hina and Iku testing. (whilst I continue to be too lazy to actually spend 5 minutes doing this myself)

As a side note, the self-debuffs all hit def/mnd, so I don't really see it being a viable option for Not-Hina unless you have flexibility, and it'd still be awkward to keep up when the rest of your party wants buffs if Flexibility works that way. (I am also too lazy to test how it works, rip me)

[Starxsword]

Uh the effect on Hina is 1/3. It means if it gives 6 mana normally, it will give 2 mana to Hina.

[Terminal Velocity]

Just tested it.Hina with all 50% debuffs restores 20% HP and 2 MP. Iku with Lv1 Whiskers gets the same amount (it debuffs DEF and MND for 50% ,but once Iku gets a turn,debuffs decrease to 40%)