The Worst Gensokyans

[TresserT]

Check out these humongous meat balls

Dude, that one's nearly flat. Not helping your case at all.


Now those, those are some pork buns.

[Razzi Zadhna]

i'm not even sure how to respond to how wacky that list is

I don't think you really get to criticize me with a signature like that, Drake.

EDIT: I see the circlejerk dogpile has already initiated. Yay for balanced discussion!

[Romantique Tp]

It's hard to have a balanced discussion when you have no clue of what you're talking about, bringing up fandom depictions of characters and pretty much claiming Touhou is a fetishy sexualized series because the characters are female.

[Razzi Zadhna]

It's hard to have a balanced discussion when you have no clue of what you're talking about, bringing up fandom depictions of characters

GOD you literally are not reading a thing I'm saying. That Alphes picture was an official advertisement.

pretty much claiming Touhou is a fetishy sexualized series because the characters are female.

This has got to be twisting my words so much it's not even funny.

My point was that Touhou has a lot of fetishy elements even if they're not the main focus (and they aren't).

But of course that would require you to actually read and not be a sanctimonious pendant 

[monhan]

Yukari is also not human.

Did you know that when asked which 2hu had the largest boobs, ZUN actually answered (it's Yuugi)?

Remember that Yukari may very well be Maribel. Don't rule that out yet.

Also, one more thing. That question was answered before Byakuren came out, so the battle of the bouncies is not finished yet.

[Razzi Zadhna]

The Yukari-Maribel connection is still unclear.

And besides, Yukari is still a really, REALLY old youkai with broken-as-hell powers who can literally sleep all day because she has a slave with another slave. Expecting her to think like a human is asking a bit much.

[Drake]

I don't think you really get to criticize me with a signature like that, Drake.

I most certainly do. What you should have said is that I didn't actually have any criticism and just expressed my disagreement which by itself doesn't stand for much.

You're sexualizing females in the series for the express purpose of claiming that they're sexualized/fetishized, using language borrowing from fandom in order to make it seem as though what you're saying is founded in the series itself. Seriously, do you really think that listing all possible different age groups that could encompass every character and labeling them in a fetishy manner makes the argument that the characters are fetish material? Moreover, you use fringe examples that some people might never have even heard of as though they were givens and aren't just isolated instances of fanservice done by people other than the main content creator.

Your initial post and its undeserved condescension (and its continuing) is what brought you this apparent "circlejerk". You're pretty well-deserving to be made fun of when your starting point of conversation is so inflammatory.

[Leon゠Helsing]

Oookay, let's get back to the original topic before this goes somewhere unpleasant, shall we?

Personally I've always tried to give everyone a fair chance, but Seija's made me doubt the feasibility of the "thou shalt not kill" rule that's so deeply ingrained in the series. It's precisely because she's driven to cause trouble. Sure, she's pretty weak on her own, but her two appearances has shown that she has the resourcefulness to make up for that. And sure, pretty much absolutely everyone knows and hates her after ISC, but there's always that one new shmuck she can take advantage of to cause another incident that might end up being devastating regardless if it's solved or not. So there, if anyone wants to defend her or poke holes in my argument that she should have been gotten rid of in a more permanent manner, then be my guest. I'm open to new perspectives.

[Romantique Tp]

GOD you literally are not reading a thing I'm saying. That Alphes picture was an official advertisement.

That was a drawing commissioned by doujinshop. You got a free Yuugi phone card if you reserved SA from them. It's not an official ad.

[monhan]

Personally I've always tried to give everyone a fair chance, but Seija's made me doubt the feasibility of the "thou shalt not kill" rule that's so deeply ingrained in the series. It's precisely because she's driven to cause trouble. Sure, she's pretty weak on her own, but her two appearances has shown that she has the resourcefulness to make up for that. And sure, pretty much absolutely everyone knows and hates her after ISC, but there's always that one new shmuck she can take advantage of to cause another incident that might end up being devastating regardless if it's solved or not. So there, if anyone wants to defend her or poke holes in my argument that she should have been gotten rid of in a more permanent manner, then be my guest. I'm open to new perspectives.

Try Hisona's Seija. You might find it interesting.

[StainGlass]

I find topics like this very interesting, so long as they're civil.

To be honest, there are a tonne of Touhou characters I don't care for / dislike.

Patchouli, Letty, The Prismriver Sisters, Wriggle, Tei, Reisen, Eirin, Sanae, Kanako, Satori, Okuu, Nazrin , Futo , Mamizou , Kokoro and everyone from Double Dealing are the main ones.

Most of them are for design reasons actually, especially Okuu (her design is just all over the place), and Satori (her attire reminds me of the dress-ups I would put on as a little girl...)

[Leon゠Helsing]

Try Hisona's Seija. You might find it interesting.

I managed to find one untranslated doujin on Seija by the author you mentioned. If it's the same doujin you mean, you're gonna have to give me a summary 'cause I can't read moonrunes. :V

[Tengukami]

I find topics like this very interesting, so long as they're civil.

And as long as we don't have someone doing more projecting than a movie theater throwing around "loli" and barking at anyone who even mildly disagrees. What a weird derail.

Most of them are for design reasons actually, especially Okuu (her design is just all over the place), and Satori (her attire reminds me of the dress-ups I would put on as a little girl...)

Satori does look like a council estate housewife, it's true, but the one design I can't forgive is Mamizou. You know when you open a carton of expired milk, give it a little sniff just to make sure, and your head snaps back as your lips curl? That was exactly my reaction to her portrait. Even by ZUN standards, it looks sloppy and kind of disturbing on some level. Like you want to chase her away with a broom or something.

[Tiamat]

Slightly on-topic:  IIRC, we don't actually know how Yukari morally feels about what she does or not, alas.  Her own narrative never seems to address it so far, and has always been decidedly neutral and objective/goal-based when she isn't just making philosophical doodles.  Although from the few times we've seen her apparently get genuinely angry, she does hate Tenshi's selfishness and thinks Suwako has gone too far to the point of moral evil, for what it's worth. (her anger in SSiB meanwhile was explicitly an act)

I am still waiting for a Yukari/Suwako/Byakuren interaction in an official Touhou story.  Sadly starting to think I might never get it   I'd LOVE to see their own ideas/clashes on running/influencing Gensokyo.  The Symposium of Post-Mysticism was fun enough but it really could have been so much better with Yukari, the one who (probably) pulled all the strings to make Gensokyo what it is today in the first place, involved.  Although possibly Yukari wouldn't want to waste her time attending a symposium if she didn't think it'd accomplish anything. (she likes philosophical debates, but possibly maybe only in cases where she is unsure of the answer.  She might not care for philosophical debates on matters where she firmly believes she's right.  All hypothetically speaking with "maybe" disclaimers)

Did you know that when asked which 2hu had the largest boobs, ZUN actually answered (it's Yuugi)?

Sorry, off-topic.  Where/when was this?   /genuinely curious

Dude, that one's nearly flat. Not helping your case at all.


Now those, those are some pork buns.

I'm marginally sure that was Not Bigode's point when he posted that flat Yukari pic.

(Yukari's slightly more rounded out in her defeated art though in those games and arguably her defeated art was the closest thing to having sexual implications in official Touhou games thanks to the location of clothing damage before HM came out but even that's mostly just relative and she's fully clothed underneath where the top layer of clothing was destroyed. For what it's worth, ZUN's art has been mostly flat for her but it's extremely rare for ZUN's art to not be flat)

[CyberAngel]

I am still waiting for a Yukari/Suwako/Byakuren interaction in an official Touhou story.

Same here, though I take her inaction as a sign that she's okay with them. She did act in SA and spectated battles in HM, so it's not like she doesn't keep an eye on happenings.

[Tengukami]

I am more than marginally sure Tres understood Not Bigode was kidding, and was just riffing off of the theme. Was the first laugh I had in that derail.

Also, I too would love to see Yukari and Byakuren get involved in something, only without Frogger. Maybe Eirin instead.

[Tiamat]

Same here, though I take her inaction as a sign that she's okay with them. She did act in SA and spectated battles in HM, so it's not like she doesn't keep an eye on happenings.

Yea, that was my impression for why she hasn't confronted anyone about it.  She's either okay with it or doesn't deem it a threat (and, in that case, as I've stated, MAYBE possibly fully believes she's right and thus there's no point to discussing it) or... whatever other possible reason.  But still, an actual confrontation between Byakuren and Yukari could potentially reveal so much (or possibly reveal absolutely nothing if Yukari's being her elusive aggravating self)

Would be interested to see a Yukari and Mamizou serious meeting, too.

There's already been a Yukari and Eirin interaction though (the ending to CiLR.  Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Yukari is the top dog

).  I suppose a Yukari Suwako interaction might not be too necessary (we already know that Yukari disproves, from her win quote to Suwako.  Yukari likes Sanae at least though)

[commandercool]

i'm not even sure how to respond to how wacky that list is

Yeah, I'm gonna... Take a pass on that.

And as long as we don't have someone doing more projecting than a movie theater throwing around "loli" and barking at anyone who even mildly disagrees. What a weird derail.

Satori does look like a council estate housewife, it's true, but the one design I can't forgive is Mamizou. You know when you open a carton of expired milk, give it a little sniff just to make sure, and your head snaps back as your lips curl? That was exactly my reaction to her portrait. Even by ZUN standards, it looks sloppy and kind of disturbing on some level. Like you want to chase her away with a broom or something.

How do you feel about her design in Forbidden Scrollery? From a character design standpoint she might be my favorite in all of Touhou.

Edit:

I find topics like this very interesting, so long as they're civil.

For the record, I do too. I am open to talk about this, I just don't think I have anything to add to stuff people have already said in this case. I initially was going to add something to that first thing I said about how for all I know some of the other characters give off a similar "fetish wear" impression to Japanese people that maid and schoolgirl outfits do to me, but I couldn't figure out how to phrase it right. Is shrine maiden a popular fetish outfit in places where shrine maidens exist? You could argue that Reimu pretty much has to be wearing a shrine maiden outfit because that's what she physically is, but the same thing should apply to Sakuya and she still seems dubious to me in at least some of her iterations. And there's no accounting for Reisen as far as I know.

[SirSlarty]

So far, the thing I learned from this thread is to not read anything fan-created.

[DarkAtma]

Rezzi posts honestly made me chuckle for some good minutes

ERM Anyways, When i am thinking of the whole cast in general the only ones i Truly forget are the bucket girl and yamame  :V its like that part of my brain always forget they exist for some reason

[Espadas]

ERM Anyways, When i am thinking of the whole cast in general the only ones i Truly forget are the bucket girl and yamame  :V its like that part of my brain always forget they exist for some reason

I wasn't a big fan of Yamame either... then i read "Hang in There Kogasa-san" and now i can't wait to see her appear because she is funny as hell  I still don't particularly care much for the 2hou char but at least now i have a legitimate reason to smile everytime i see her sprite  :V

[Razzi Zadhna]

Rezzi posts honestly made me chuckle for some good minutes

ERM Anyways, When i am thinking of the whole cast in general the only ones i Truly forget are the bucket girl and yamame  :V its like that part of my brain always forget they exist for some reason

Add Medicine to that list and you have me. I have to force myself to remember that Medicine exists. She has to be one of the most useless characters in the entire series, just barely passing Kisume.

[CyberAngel]

There were character costumes mentioned earlier, and while I usually don't care much about such things, there is indeed one character that I don't like as much as I could have due to appearance - Kasen. Namely, her... whatever it is that she wears over her shirt and skirt. Seriously, what is it, and what purpose it has as a piece of clothing? It looks similar to something Ran and (sometimes) Yukari wear, but they wear it over a single color full length dress and it looks good on it. On Kasen it looks really out of place. And she wears it ALL THE TIME. Like when it's cold, she wears a jacket OVER it, and it looks especially silly. What's the point? To be fair, it did have some use when she pulled her "teleporting hand" trick, and it does look fine when you only look at her top half, but when you look at her full-height she easily wins "The Most WTF Costume" award, and given that it's Touhou we're talking about, that's saying something. Or am I the only one who feels like that?

EDIT: Looks like that thingy doesn't extend past her shirt on the back. Which only makes that extra length on the front look even sillier as well as completely unnecessary, frankly.

[sekibanki]

She's wearing one of those lead aprons that x-ray technicians wear.

[iPetalchaser]

Namely, her... whatever it is that she wears over her shirt and skirt. Seriously, what is it, and what purpose it has as a piece of clothing? It looks similar to something Ran and (sometimes) Yukari wear, but they wear it over a single color full length dress and it looks good on it. On Kasen it looks really out of place. And she wears it ALL THE TIME. Like when it's cold, she wears a jacket OVER it, and it looks especially silly.

In English is called a 'Tabard'. It is a purely cosmetic item of clothing, used only to accessorize your clothing. In Medieval Europe, they would often carry emblazoned Coats of Arms which identified the wearer, or the House they served.

Tabard-like garments were also worn by scholar-officials and authority figures as part of their formal 'Court Uniform' , especially in the Tang and Song Dynasty eras (This Qing (Manchu) example  is all i could find). They are therefore strongly associated with Taoist Hermits and Celestials and, consequently in Japan, with the practice Onmyudo 'sorcery' which Yukari and Ran use.

[ToyoRai]

So my least favourite Gensokyan?

To me, that would be Tewi. You see, when it comes to fiction, there are either trolls which are enjoyable, and trolls, who are insufferable. Tewi falls into the latter. This might be the cause of fanwork, but unlike, say Yukari and Seija, who are varied about their antics, Tewi seems to only target Reisen, who is one of my favourite characters. Plus, I cannot find anything what really stands out from her in a positive way.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

So my least favourite Gensokyan?

To me, that would be Tewi. You see, when it comes to fiction, there are either trolls which are enjoyable, and trolls, who are insufferable. Tewi falls into the latter. This might be the cause of fanwork, but unlike, say Yukari and Seija, who are varied about their antics, Tewi seems to only target Reisen, who is one of my favourite characters. Plus, I cannot find anything what really stands out from her in a positive way.

This. I was going to say more or less the same thing, but hesitated and decided not to do so at the last moment because I was afraid of people hating on me because of that.

Anyway, this is what I had saved on a notepad:

Well... lemme say who I hate most then: Tewi.

I don't like her habit of bullying Reisen who is a character I like a lot. Plus, this whole trope of "little character triumphs over the bigger one" is pretty boring for me (think about Tom & Jerry). I know all of this is more of a fandom thing, but still...

I was just never fond of small pranksters who likes to troll the others for no reason at all. She is nothing but an annoying little bitch for me.

I'm sorry, Tewi fans.

[Clarste]

To be fair, Tewi does have a reason to target Reisen instead of anyone else: Reisen never seems to realize that Tewi isn't a servant and likes to boss her around. Imagine you're the lord of some mansion and one of your guests brings along an arrogant/racist servant who just assumes that since you're an earthling you must be also be a servant. And also that she has seniority because she's from the moon. Reisen even ignores Eirin's advice on the subject. So while pranking may not be the best option (as opposed to confronting her directly), it's not like Reisen didn't bring it upon herself by continuously being incredibly disrespectful.

[Drake]

Yeah people often ignore the dynamic of Reisen being a moon rabbit and Tewi being an earth rabbit that actually controls the other rabbits, if not the fact that Reisen herself is kind of arrogant. To some extent I might throw Tewi into the "which character is twisted by fandom" thread, since it does turn Tewi into a completely one-dimensional character.

[ToyoRai]

Maybe the case with me is that there is hardly anything for me to like about Tewi in canon (to me, she is a super old bunny amongside others who look just like her who is known to scam people, which isn't precisely the most admirable trait to have), so the most common subject of fan-art about her sticks out, even in context.

I guess there is slight irritation how people say that "Tewi totally beat Yorihime" for falling into one of her pitfalls, which I hardly consider being a proper victory, but that is subject of other time.