Author Topic: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over  (Read 130681 times)

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #750 on: October 29, 2014, 01:04:16 PM »
I'm going to finish my Chinese with Haku this time for sure.

>finishing your Chinese girl set
>be me
>not have a single one of them despite PCGF and a godfest with them in it

:fail:

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #751 on: October 29, 2014, 01:31:32 PM »
Didn't we have a Norse/Archangel carnival recently? Pretty sure that's where I got my Gabriel from.

Probably won't be rolling on this one. I wouldn't mind Uriel, I&I, another Gabriel, or any of the Chinese, which is quite a big chunk of the available things, but I feel like I should be saving up still for Three Kingdoms. Was kind of hoping that would get paired with Chinese this time actually, since I still don't have a Chinese. None of them particularly do anything for me right now and I don't have time to start a new team, it just feels weird that I don't have one. Starter dragons replaced with Chinagirls when? They seem like the best thing we've got for new players.

I don't know, maybe I'll do one roll. I'm due for some good luck on my single rolls.

Chinagirls barring Kirin are thankfully extremely easy to build a team around. They are one of the most versatile leads in the entire game.

Edible

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #752 on: October 29, 2014, 02:00:55 PM »
At this point I would probably trade half my roster for a haku.  She's just such a vital member of a lot of teams I can run.

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #753 on: October 29, 2014, 02:03:08 PM »
At this point I would probably trade half my roster for a haku.  She's just such a vital member of a lot of teams I can run.

you'd probably trade your soul for a D/D Haku, huh?

In other news, I've reset my PADherder and completely updated it so that it reflects my current state in PAD. Please check it and provide advice on new directions to take my teams and help improve my teambuilding skills.

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #754 on: October 29, 2014, 03:00:53 PM »
fuck chimera double strikes. I'm like 500 HP away from being able to survive them which means i have to farm 50 more +eggs just so i dont die to this bs

hyorinryu

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #755 on: October 29, 2014, 03:09:01 PM »
Chinagirls barring Kirin are thankfully extremely easy to build a team around. They are one of the most versatile leads in the entire game.

Kirin is pretty easy  too. Doesn't need any REM stuff either.

*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #756 on: October 29, 2014, 03:21:01 PM »
Kirin is pretty easy  too. Doesn't need any REM stuff either.

>doesn't need any rem stuff
>the best alternatives are takeminakata / sandalphon / valk / angelion

you keep telling yourself that hyorinryu. :V
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:29:53 PM by auri.ca »

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #757 on: October 29, 2014, 03:22:01 PM »
If anyone wants my second Haku you can have her...

ahh if only
I have uses for Thor, Loki, Freyja, Karin, Genbu... but I probably won't roll.
There's still the DC comics thing approaching and I think I'd rather save stones for that.

Also Ruka hit skill level 5 off a feed today.
-the dream is becoming real-

Edible

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #758 on: October 29, 2014, 03:24:25 PM »
>doesn't need any rem stuff
>takeminakata / sandalphon / valk / angelion

you keep telling yourself that hyorinryu. :V

... but none of that is REM ???

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #759 on: October 29, 2014, 03:27:21 PM »
... but none of that is REM ???

no my point is the non-REM subs are mostly goddamn DESCENDS so newer players who get "lucky" and pull Kirin end up having to make ghetto rainbow teams

evolved nepthys art
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:30:29 PM by auri.ca »

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #760 on: October 29, 2014, 03:32:51 PM »
I made it through the entire game just fine with my 'ghetto rainbow team' so

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #761 on: October 29, 2014, 03:35:17 PM »
I made it through the entire game just fine with my 'ghetto rainbow team' so

and i got through a good chunk of the game using rainbow healers... :|

but when i'm discussing optimal team setups... :|

元素召唤 || pad & msl news translator robit
twitter xx motk resident whale

Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #762 on: October 29, 2014, 03:38:00 PM »
but we weren't talking about optimal teams?

Chinagirls barring Kirin are thankfully extremely easy to build a team around. They are one of the most versatile leads in the entire game.
Kirin is pretty easy  too. Doesn't need any REM stuff either.

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #763 on: October 29, 2014, 03:40:51 PM »
it is way easier to build a good RGL team for Leilan than it is to build a good L-primary team for Kirin

that is basically my argument in a one-liner comparison

there's no point in just using the "ease" of building a team as a metric for that because you could literally just make any shitty RGBL team for Kirin and somehow make it work because theyre huge-ass stat sticks or they have a billion pluses on them or you're some goddamn PAD god like LUKA who can consistently trigger huge-ass combos with x25

for real this is pissing me off :V

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #764 on: October 29, 2014, 03:46:31 PM »
well I disagree

I think Kirin + echinda + orb changers works just fine as a solid farmable team

for real this is pissing me off :V
am I not allowed to disagree without pissing you off?

trancehime

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #765 on: October 29, 2014, 03:50:41 PM »
am I not allowed to disagree without pissing you off?

i'm seriously just getting the impression that my view on the matter is just being totally dismissed

maybe i'm just fucking shit at this game but i sure as hell aren't going to get work done on even legend descends with my scrub-tier bastet team

it just gives me the mindset where something "simple" like the core you suggested just won't cut it without pluses

EDIT: then again why am i even bothering when x25 is basically non-trivially huge anyway lol
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:53:51 PM by auri.ca »

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #766 on: October 29, 2014, 04:21:42 PM »
It's not about the +eggs, it's the orb changers and heart breakers in particular. Having orb changers isn't just about giving you enough colors to activate Kirin, it also can tremendously boost your damage.
Basically you can think of it like a multiplier, since every orb you consume increases damage. If you pull off a regular Kirin burst vs a Kirin burst with Valk + Verche the damage difference is huge, like way better than King Slimes or any of those guys huge.

Like here's some numbers:
Lets say you have a 5k light attack Kirin team and you do a basic x25 match with 3 orbs of each of the 4 necessary colors. The Damage calculator says that would deal 218750 light damage.
Lets say you have some sort of x3 light active skill in there. That's 656250 damage.
Now on the other hand if you run orb changers instead of a x3 active skill. Let's say you have a valk and a verche and each provides just 4 extra light orbs which you match separately. That's 1093750 damage! Much more than the x3 active gives.
Even if you match all of those light orbs in a big cluster and miss out on damage from having more combos, that's still 656250 damage. Yep having just 8 more light orbs gives as much damage as a x3 active.
Of course it's possible to have more or less than this depending on your board, but if you can properly manage your orbs the damage potential is huge.

My point is you don't need stuff like Sandalphon or Takemina or whatever to deal good damage because Orb changers make the biggest initial difference.
Of course to hit the next level of damage you then stack multiplers on top of orb changers, but you can never neglect orb changers because that's where most of the damage comes from.


This goes for Bastet too. You can get a lot more damage if you build mono green with rainbow subtypes and have Chu somewhere in there. And then if you have a slime burst on top of that you're golden.


Oh yeah on another note though base stats do matter a LOT. If you don't have plus eggs then at least you want to farm Super Dragons until everyone is level 99 before you try tackling descends.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 04:27:43 PM by Suikama »

Edible

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #767 on: October 29, 2014, 04:35:42 PM »
The reason cookie cutter kirin is a thing is because valk/verche/echidna/insert-blue-thing-here is not only easy to farm, it's also highly efficient and safe.

The goal with high multiplier teams like kirin is to be able to activate the multiplier whenever possible, and stall when you can't.  Orb changers make the former much easier, and echidna makes the latter much easier.  The blue thing is a stat stick more often than not, but damage reduction through midgard or light izanami is hugely beneficial, and hera-is is a great all-around stat stick with gravity.

Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #768 on: October 29, 2014, 04:43:13 PM »
Also Valk is pretty hard to get at first, but you still can get pretty good mileage with Sieg/Chu, or any other dark/heart clearing REM orb changer that you might just happen to have


Echinda + Two heroes is just a favorite combo of mine, especially since my REM luck was just GARBAGE. Covers all colors but light, has good stats, and heartbreaking gives good damage.

Way back when Isis had no ult evos I used Uriel in the final slot and did Uriel + heart breaker as my boss clearing combo. It wasn't that strong but was good enough for my level at the time.

Then we got Physical Isis so I dropped Uriel for King Bubblie and I've used that until now where I've swapped Chu for Grape Dragon for the additional utility.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 04:50:58 PM by Suikama »

Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #769 on: October 29, 2014, 05:04:37 PM »
Right now I only uses phys isis with my best color rainbows, it's really mashed up and can cause clashing - Bastet right now has better compatiability with my rainbow.

hyorinryu

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #770 on: October 29, 2014, 05:05:49 PM »
The reason cookie cutter kirin is a thing is because valk/verche/echidna/insert-blue-thing-here is not only easy to farm, it's also highly efficient and safe.

The goal with high multiplier teams like kirin is to be able to activate the multiplier whenever possible, and stall when you can't.  Orb changers make the former much easier, and echidna makes the latter much easier.  The blue thing is a stat stick more often than not, but damage reduction through midgard or light izanami is hugely beneficial, and hera-is is a great all-around stat stick with gravity.

Yeah. Pretty much. The only problems are Valk and Hera-Is/Izanami. I used Bleu/Siren/Siren/Midguard/A. Hera/Gabby for Valk and DJ/double Siren/Midguard/A Hera/Odin. I blew 1 stone on Valk and 5 on Hera-Is, but when you using that team for everything in the game, it's worth like 10-15 stones.

*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #771 on: October 29, 2014, 05:41:25 PM »
- math about orb changers and burst damage -

Wow, never thought orb changers would be that much of a burst multiplier! Since i don't like King Slimes this is a really good news for possible alternatives....

Quote
Oh yeah on another note though base stats do matter a LOT. If you don't have plus eggs then at least you want to farm Super Dragons until everyone is level 99 before you try tackling descends.

This is basically what i'm dealing with right now....
My only real powerhouses atm are Karin and GOdin (although GZL will be getting there thanks to tomorrow's Super Emerald) while everyone else is either too low level or doesn't want to skill up (I'M LOOKING AT YOU ECHIDNA! :colbert:)

commandercool

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #772 on: October 29, 2014, 05:42:22 PM »
Out of curiosity, when you guys use descend prize monsters on your teams how many skillups do you have on them? Aside from maybe Hera they seem really rough to skill up. I kind of want my Noah skillmaxed but that sounds like such a crazy investment of time, especially since it would be spread out over many months.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #773 on: October 29, 2014, 05:49:22 PM »
There's no point (other than for some like Hera)

All descend bosses have like really high skill levels so basically the only way to skill them up is if you can consistently clear them on mythical without a problem and you are high enough rank that you can get many runs with a stone. At that point you'll already have a super strong team so there's no point other than for collection's sake or for trying out fancy teams like mono red with max skilled Goemon or something.

Besides since descends are limited in time, you literally HAVE to spend stones to skill them up, or you can skill them up very very slowly over time I guess.

On the other hand skilling up Hera is actually much easier now though since Hera is a normal dungeon.

Oh yeah Two Heroes is too, which means technically you don't have to do poring tower to skill them up anymore :V

commandercool

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #774 on: October 29, 2014, 06:05:54 PM »
That makes sense. I suppose few of them work in such a way that they're unusable without skillups.

 Japan has some kind of guaranteed skillup system for max-level same-name monsters, right? But doesn't that only work on REM monsters? If it worked on descend prizes I could see myself snagging a Noah every time she rolls around to work on maxing for skillups as a side project.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Thaws

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #775 on: October 29, 2014, 06:57:57 PM »
That makes sense. I suppose few of them work in such a way that they're unusable without skillups.

 Japan has some kind of guaranteed skillup system for max-level same-name monsters, right? But doesn't that only work on REM monsters? If it worked on descend prizes I could see myself snagging a Noah every time she rolls around to work on maxing for skillups as a side project.

It only works for monsters with ult-evos.
And most descents gets a skill change after ult evos anyways so that is the main way to skill those up.

I actually skill maxed my Hera-Is before Hera became a normal dungeon, it took me over a year. :V and then gravities stopped being a thing in rainbow teams and I never actually used my skill maxed Hera-Is's skill. :V inb4 her skill gets changed when she ults
I also skilled up my Sandalphon to like skill lv7 by being extremely lucky (6/17), but his cd is still so long I've never used him.
I have no idea what I'm doing. :V

For us non-iAPs I feel like the better approach is to just snags some skill ups here and there when hunting for jewels. :/

Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #776 on: October 29, 2014, 07:08:16 PM »
I think gravities might actually work well with the new Egypt 2.0, since they don't hit as hard BUT they have much better tanking and stalling ability than normal burst teams.

commandercool

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #777 on: October 29, 2014, 07:14:12 PM »
The more I look at them the more I like new Egypts. They're an interesting attempt to stabilize the metagame away from "spike or go home". I assume we'll be seeing descends that suit their particular strengths to match.

I have no idea if they're actually competitive enough to facilitate any kind of actual meta shift, but they at least give people the tools to play teams that function a little differently and maybe like different subs.

Edit: In fact, the argument could be made that SopThot already is a descend that suits the strengths of New Egypt.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 07:15:51 PM by commandercool »
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Thaws

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #778 on: October 29, 2014, 07:17:28 PM »
I think gravities might actually work well with the new Egypt 2.0, since they don't hit as hard BUT they have much better tanking and stalling ability than normal burst teams.

Indeed. I really want a Hathor right now :V
1.8/20.25/1.8 sounds too good on paper.
Hera-Is isn't light though, but she can cover two elements so I have greater freedom on the rest of the team so it should be fine.
Nephthys could really use the gravity and Hera-Is is part-dark, maybe that would work better.

The more I look at them the more I like new Egypts. They're an interesting attempt to stabilize the metagame away from "spike or go home". I assume we'll be seeing descends that suit their particular strengths to match.

I have no idea if they're actually competitive enough to facilitate any kind of actual meta shift, but they at least give people the tools to play teams that function a little differently and maybe like different subs.

The new *something* RUSH dungeons all have insane pre-emps and high damage so most non-all +297 teams don't really have a chance. They might open up new possibilities for less iAP-heavy teams to clear them, like how new Roman ults became the best choice for the Lv10 challenge dungeon last time.

commandercool

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Re: Puzzle and Dragons 13: Always evolving to ensure you're always screwed over
« Reply #779 on: October 29, 2014, 07:46:18 PM »
Just got a text from my roommate, who works in a comic book store. Apparently DC is running PAD ads in their new books this week.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.