Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[Serela]

I was about to go to sleep and realized "wait, but I'm not voting in mafia and I work early tomorrow again"

...well, there's still plenty of time left in the day. I need to Seriously Consider Chaore/Polly's slot, now that polly's been around the block enough, and I can't just let Moridin/Massaca continue to fly off my radar anymore so I'll have to actually iso them. Oh yeah, and re-evaluate Zak. I don't think I'd want to lynch anyone else today.

It makes me feel bad since I'm actually coming under scrutiny now but I might have to start complaining about being too busy with college/work for thorough mafia play. We'll see, though, I'm probably overestimating how bad it'll be (well... considering Sunday should be an actual nighttime, at least)

[Polaris]

What, were you giving me a free pass just because I only recently replaced in? B(

[Sky_Paladin]

Vote count of the confused sea chicken:

Currently voting:
Conqueror (1): Anonymous.
Dr Rawr (2): BT, Zakeri
Zakeri (3): Moridin84, Dr Rawr, Conqueror
Serela (2): SB, Polaris
Oarfish (1) : Raikaria
NNR (1): Just

With 14 alive you need 8 votes to make a decision.  A little over two days remaining.

Not voting
Massaca, O4rfish, NekoNekoRex, ActionDan, Serela

[Conqueror]

Mafia sucks.

I kind of want to jerkvote Zakeri for keeping his vote on rawr without even mentioning the claim but I don't know how wise that would be.

Moridin, do you actually suspect Raikaria and NNR or were you just trying to make a point about them?

I'll need to reread a recent scumgame of Serela's to remind me how he plays as scum. Nothing about him has really stood out to me, and I proved how good I was at reading Serela the last game I was in with him.

Massaca reads decently town to me. Reading through his iso, the only suspicious thing to me is that he barely touched on Dorian yesterday when he was a major wagon.

Oarfish, who are your scumreads now? You seem to have petered out after your casing on Raikaria yesterday.

BT is a PoE lynch but I don't have anything against him personally; I just don't have him as strong town. Would revisit after more scum flips to see if he fits in. Polly is kind of the same but with role shenanigans mixed in.

So I think I want to vote between Zak/Moridin/Serela/Oarfish.

##Vote: Zak
I'm taking Zak complaining about the votes on his disappearing so quickly as scumplaining because that never happens to town!Zak. :V On a more serious note, I'm interested in hearing from Zak his progression of reads from yesterday's end of day post where he voted Serela to today's PoE list as some of it seems suspect (yes I know he promised a content post, but I'll believe it when I see it). His vote progression doesn't really enthuse me from the stuff I mentioned yesterday. Also, not reacting to rawr's claim (even to say he didn't buy it or something; we know he's reading the thread because he responded to several other things in between) and also having SB as a poe suspect (really? come on).

[Conqueror]

EBWOP: Moridin, what do you think of other people aside from Zak? You've been basically talking about him and Dorian (and a smidge of Dan) for most of the game. Also, why are you voting Zak right now?

[Polaris]

Story time! In Gensokyo Holy War mafia I thought Serela was scum from the very beginning and practically tunneled him all the way to his D2 lynch where he flipped scum. And then I used the power from that lynch to vig a second scum!! Yeah!! Probably my best game overall.

Of course, in, like, the next game I played (Justice Juice Mafia) Serela was my Town Best Pal and I lynched him anyway. Q_Q Sorry Serela!

There is no moral to this story, I just wanted to share the deep bonds that veterans of MotK mafia share, and also I'm bored.

[Conqueror]

Well, you think Serela is scum for easy wagoning? Who would be your second/etc choice?

[Polaris]

Moridin.

Also I have a town read on Zak b/c I don't think scum would try to make up role reasons to fake-suspect town :L

Serela/Moridin are also, separately, the results of superPoE (although I admit some of my clears might be TOO lenient) so ?_?

[Conqueror]

The being suspicious of you thing?

[Polaris]

Yep. Seems like a pretty town way of handling things, at least to me.

[Conqueror]

I have a hunch the explanation won't be very satisfactory. The most suspicious part of you being blocked is the lack of kill, which isn't anything specific to anyone's role except for Bard's, and Zak didn't say anything about his role implicating you on D2.

[Polaris]

Well, Zak didn't know I was blocked on D2. :V That info only showed up D3. The fact that I'm apparently suspicious because I was blocked doesn't seem like something scum would fabricate.

I can make a guess on what might have happened, but there isn't really much point in that.

[Conqueror]

No, I mean, the info about you being blocked only showed up today, but Zak is implying his N1 result made him suspicious of you in light of that. A result that is apparently fine after the nokill on N1 but suddenly becomes suspicious after we know your action was delayed? Any info he had relating to you he would already have had N1, and the knowledge that you were specifically blocked would change nothing since given the nokill N1 he should have already made any connections then.

It's a little badly worded because roles are hard and rolegaming is harder, but I guess my point is that role-based suspicions are pretty easy to fabricate without backup.

[Polaris]

Well, I don't really feel like having to break out role speculation, and this point probably isn't gonna make-or-break the case on Zak anyway, so is it all right if we agree to disagree? :L He said he'll claim if necessary, anyway.

What you should take away from this exchange is that I'm not gonna be voting Zak for my given reason, so yeah.

[O4rfish]

I keep trying to write a good post and keep getting more tired. It's Bard's fault.
My current scumreads are Raikaria, Serela, Massaca, not as a teampick though. I'll explain, later d3.
My current townreads are Conq, Polaris, SB, and dependent on this roleclaim Dr Rawr.
I have strong mixed feelings about Bard, strong mixed drinks about NNR, and need to reread everyone else.

[Conqueror]

What you should take away from this exchange is that I'm not gonna be voting Zak for my given reason, so yeah.

absolutely kimoi waru B(

[Polaris]

do you mean kimochi warui b/c if yer gonna japanese at least japanese properly

When I come in tomorrow I expect to see the results of whatever D3 magic that'll save the world that Raikaria talked about. B(

[Raikaria]

Hey NNR, since you're RED does that mean you can make the factional kill

Raikaria, when did you say anything like this?

My crumbs about being Toyosatomimi.

Also what other people said. It's not obvious he is Sakuya.

Tick tock just relates to time running out.

Bard mentioned eating N2. That suggests KEINE.

It just feels word you would call him Sakuya when he has neither stated he is Sakuya nor is the cause of the time thing unknown. I refer to the stump-maker as 'Yuyuko' because we don't know who it is.

So I thought you had access to information you would not otherwise have. Seeing this at 11pm made me jump on it while I went to sleep.

Still; seeing the hints actually suggest Keine and not Sakuya make me shrug and pass things off.

#Unvote

Also my 3rd member is indeed BT. Considering he appears to have vanished. He has not even really spoke much in the QT D3 so far; although he claims to have been busy; which means I don't know if he's done what he needs to do yet.

Which means I'm not explaining that bit yet.

[Raikaria]

Oh yeah forgot to vote; going back to Zakeri.

#Vote: Zakeri

[CF7]

Oh, ah, eh, votecount.

Currently voting.
Conqueror (1): Anonymous.
Dr Rawr (2): BT, Zakeri
Zakeri (4): Moridin84, Dr Rawr, Conqueror, Raikaria
Serela (2): SB, Polaris
NNR (1): Just

With 14 alive you need 8 votes to make a decision.

Not voting
Massaca, O4rfish, NekoNekoRex, ActionDan, Serela

[O4rfish]

My crumbs about being Toyosatomimi.

Please point out which post those first appeared in.

[O4rfish]

Tick tock just relates to time running out.
Bard mentioned eating N2. That suggests KEINE.

Yeah well, Keine doesn't make time slow down, and ...
eh, maybe Kaguya would fit better for speeding the night up and slowing a person down. I just assumed Sakuya because of the Tick Tock thing.

Also just in case, I would really appreciate it if we could wait until BT has confirmed he is Raikaria's neighbor, before any further wagoning.
You know, just in case.

[Massaca]

I looked at Serela's posts from #417 onwards and then read the line of SB's post about Serela's votes and it matched what I thought. Serela's justification for voting Zak over Rawr is pretty poor in all honesty and his following switch to Rawr cause Zak made a big post that Serela hadn't even really looked at yet? Reasons his Rawr vote as megalurking (fair enough but eh) and asking Dan to claim during the 1v1(I see nothing wrong with this considering the circumstances) then says that even though Rawr has a meta of megalurk scum "it's not really part of the vote".
Now I kinda feel it's too obvious poor reasoning to wagon on for scum to run with especially since he specifically states Zak is not scummy and Rawr is a bit better but then later changes that to "they were both my scum reads" but that isn't really true? at least for Zak.

Iunno, I'm conflicted on Serela but would probably sheep the vote if it came to it.


But for now
##Vote: Moridin
This is where I'm standing.

[Raikaria]

Belive it is this one:

https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17271.msg1121429.html#msg1121429

Also there's a couple of other reasons I want to make notes when I think someone is townie or when something important IMO happens. I need to earmark important things so I can listen to their voices again in my head. So I don't get lost as easily when there are so many voices around. Sixteen people is a lot. I get confused sometimes in games with more than 10 people.

I want to invite people who at the time I thought were either townie or important to my quicktopic to listen to them. I specifically state ten people as the limit because Ten desires; one from each person.

Not the only time I do this.

[Moridin]

So I've been asleep and now I'm at work. I'm not sure about how much I'll be able to post today but let's see if I can get everything out of the way now.

- I am assuming that there are 4 MAFIA because that's what NNR said
- I believe that Raikeria is TOWN, since it doesn't make sense to give MAFIA the ability to create a quick topic. He seems to trust NNR absolutely but that's probably just a mistake
- I think NNR is honest about everything, except possibly his win condition
- I don't know about Polaris. He replaced Chao-whatever right? Chao-whatever seemed a bit MAFIA but Polaris seems TOWN
- I'm not as confident of my opinion of Zakeria being MAFIA anymore. I'm waiting for his full claim before I will change my vote though
- Conqueror is probably TOWN
- SB is very likely TOWN
- I think O4rfish is MAFIA
- 50/50 on whether Serala is MAFIA
- I think either Dr. Rawr or Zakeria is MAFIA, but not both.
- I was thinking Just was MAFIA because of how much he was distracting everyone by talking about NNR, however, he seems to have pushed against both Dr. Rawr and Zakeria in the past so I'm going with him being TOWN
- ActionDon is very likely TOWN
- I don't know about BT, since he hasn't posted much
- I don't know much about Massaca. I disinclined to trust him because he seems to think I might be MAFIA. I'm suspicious of this because I haven't been acting against TOWN in any way and even if I'm not posting "enough", I don't think that post count is low enough to be considered "hiding". Dr. Rawr also loses points because of this

If I end up switching from Zakeria I'll probably either vote for Dr. Rawr or NNR. NNR is someone who needs to be lynched, so I'd be for him if I'm not confident about Dr. Rawr being MAFIA.

It's true I'm "going with the flow" to a certain extent.  Unfortunately, it's rather difficult when you don't know anyone, I have trouble keeping track of who is who and who said what. I'm starting to pick that up now though.

[Massaca]

@ Bardiche,
Do you legitimately think Raikaria could be scum? Do you think there is/are scum in his QT?

[O4rfish]

And why are people claiming their role names? Since from what myself, O4rfish and Chaore said about the role mechanics and role names being aligned, it is possible that giving out our role names/characters is giving the mafia more information that is required of us.

The bold part is kind of weird, right? Raikaria has spent the game saying "oh I mistook Oarfish for Dorian, sixteen players too many amirite" but nobody would ever type "myself" instead of another player's name.

I claimed my role here when I was accusing ActionDan of claiming (which it later seems he wasn't claiming) to have some mechanics which weren't tied to his flavor role. I mentioned how MY mechanics and flavor fit together perfectly.

After which, Chaore(Polaris) posted here that his role and mechanics also fit together, but he was wary of giving away too much information too soon.

Then Raikaria posted his response to my attack on ActionDan, including the above quote. I didn't notice that part of it at the time, but at face value, he is saying that he has also posted how his flavor and mechanics fit together.
This is the type of thing one might have posted about in a scum QT.
In fact, I assert that he DID post about it in the scum QT, and then forgot about WHERE he posted it.

Now, Raikaria is claiming that the bold quote is referencing crumbs indicating he is Miko. That would be a stretch to justify "the role mechanics and role names being aligned" but looking back on each of his posts, I cannot even find any such crumbs. Let me link to each of Raikaria's posts appearing earlier than this one:

confirm post
talking to Dormio
Dormio's internet
a serela vote
confusion over who Dormio is attacking
rvs explanation
asking ActionDan about PR
still confused that SB exists
attacking ActionDan
dorianmio
PR =/= PR
3rd on wagon
Zak is silly
everything is still fine

So Raikaria, in which of these posts did you mention that role mechanics and role names were related?


Cut by:

Belive it is this one:
? Reply #202 on: August 22, 2014, 12:55:38 pm ?

Yes, that was a very good crumb. It did not, however, qualify for being referenced by your post, the very first quote in THIS post:

? Reply #149 on: August 22, 2014, 12:47:31 am ?
And why are people claiming their role names? Since from what myself, O4rfish and Chaore said about the role mechanics and role names being aligned, it is possible that giving out our role names/characters is giving the mafia more information that is required of us.

and it doesn't even qualify as saying something ABOUT the role mechanics and role names being aligned, as it merely references a role persona with the implication that mechanics are somehow related.


Scumtell.
##vote: Raikaria

[Raikaria]

I thought I had crumbed Miko before that point.

Still; I have my role PM. My role fits with my flavor. Therefor it is correct of me to use my own role as part of that assumption. I have my role PM.

You are just grasping at straws now O4rfish. Voting me for thinking I had already hinted at myself being Toyosatomimi because apparently that's a scumtell? That's desperate. I have the evidence needed to associate myself with Roles being linked with character flavor because I have my own role PM.

I think I am entitled to use the information contained inside my own role PM to make a hypothesis without it being a scumtell. A hypothesis that appears to have been proven correct looking at the flips alone; let alone things like 'NNR is Reimu and can exorcise spirits aka remove stumps' and 'Bard is hinting he is Keine because he ate N2 and made it end'.

[Raikaria]

I'd almost think that you are pushing on me so hard and attempting to find any tiny thing because you know I'm town and don't want me to amass more town allies.

That and you want people to not trust what the 3rd person in my QT; BT; will reveal at some point... when he shows up...

[Raikaria]

I mean; what's scummy about me; even if I had not crumbed Toyosatomimi yet; confirming 'Yes my role lines up with flavor too guys'.