Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F (Read 184219 times)

CrazyManiacz · « **Reply #810 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:36:09 PM »

Oh, right, realised that my question was flawed :blush:

Well, uh, who has the potential to be reeeeeally tanky? (Like, a little bit less than Tenshi or so)

EDIT: Actually, if you raise a character's HP, DEF and MND to 500 and elemental affinities to 100 by flooding the library with lots of cash, I suppose he/she could be reeeeeally tanky.
A-anyway, I mean, uh, innately! Y-yeah, that's right! Like, uh, Parsee's gigantic MND stat growth!
Then again if you put all skill points into DEF and MND and HP and give them equips that boost those stats, I suppose he/she could be reeeeeally tanky.

Forget it. This question is retarded :derp:

Well, at least Patchy can be made into a MND tank, though her DEF can't be called glass cannon; it's frailer than air, a vacuum probably has more DEF than she does. Still, poor Flandre is really glass, but not as bad as Patchy's absolutely horrendous DEF >.>
What about: Which characters have good growths in HP, MND and DEF? Like, reeeaaally good. Not at the level of Tenshi, but enough to be able to tank lots of hits.

Yookie · « **Reply #811 on:** October 03, 2014, 06:08:44 PM »

Quote from: CrazyManiacz on October 03, 2014, 05:36:09 PM

Well, at least Patchy can be made into a MND tank, though her DEF can't be called glass cannon; it's frailer than air, a vacuum probably has more DEF than she does. Still, poor Flandre is really glass, but not as bad as Patchy's absolutely horrendous DEF >.>

Patchy is a tissue that has been drenched in magic-repelling fluid.

Quote from: CrazyManiacz on October 03, 2014, 05:36:09 PM

What about: Which characters have good growths in HP, MND and DEF? Like, reeeaaally good. Not at the level of Tenshi, but enough to be able to tank lots of hits.

Yuuka becomes a good second slot tank when late game arrives, Wriggle, Rumia, Kourin with his High-Boosts, Okuu can become kinda like Komachi, Nitori gets to be tanky thanks to Maintenance, same goes for Renko, Momiji can take physical hits, Parsee magical,
Hina is an excellent tank, Yuugi takes physical hits quite well but is not that good a tank since then she doesn't do much else than sponge damage, Ran isn't too frail, Kanako is rather bulky on both sides, Yuyuko has a good Mind stat, Byakuren is also a decent tank.

As you can see that's like a third of the roster. Outside of Kanako all of those can safely hang around in the second slot without being built all defense (Kanako can do that as well but it screws her over skillset wise.) and if you build them as a tank they can also go first slot.

Kaitani · « **Reply #812 on:** October 03, 2014, 07:10:34 PM »

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What about: Which characters have good growths in HP, MND and DEF? Like, reeeaaally good. Not at the level of Tenshi, but enough to be able to tank lots of hits.

If I'm not completely mistaken, the base values given for each stat in character parameters means how well each of those stats grow. So rather than ask for vague "who is good enough" questions, go see the numbers yourself.

Looking at the base stats I found something quite interesting: Aya seems to have the highest base HP value after Komachi. That's certainly unexpected.

ZXNova · « **Reply #813 on:** October 03, 2014, 08:07:16 PM »

Quote from: jaxter0987 on October 03, 2014, 04:49:56 PM

That's a hard question to answer since a lot of characters can be built tanky and China level tanky in LoT2 is not a very high standard imo.

I can count 14 characters in my opinion that can be built just as tanky as China if not better and there are a couple others that can be better than China level tanky for MND / DEF respectively. LoT2 is more more flexible in terms of character building but obviously its going to be hard to make someone like Patchy / Flandre into a tank.

Meiling pls

And speaking of tankiness, Imo, the best second slot tanks are like Meiling, Yuuka, Rinnosuke, Wriggle. Meiling namely due to her passive that reduces damage for not being in the 1st slot. Parsee can actually take some physical hits as well, her HP actually isn't that bad. If you invest in her HP and give her your HP gems, she will also do well taking physical hits. Byakuren is a good tank thanks to her healing passive and overall good stats. And if you make her monk, it gets even better.

@Kaitani

I don't think that's right. I'm pretty sure Utsuho, Flandre, Remilia, and Meiling have higher HP values than Aya.

Kaitani · « **Reply #814 on:** October 03, 2014, 09:23:30 PM »

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I don't think that's right. I'm pretty sure Utsuho, Flandre, Remilia, and Meiling have higher HP values than Aya.

Oh, didn't realise I still had First Aid Kit on Aya when I was checking those values. And HP boost skill. And the fact that those things increase the base value in the character parameters without saying that they are "temporary" boosts.

Kirin no Sora · « **Reply #815 on:** October 04, 2014, 04:08:19 AM »

Quote from: Serela on October 03, 2014, 03:33:24 PM

Anyone who already has good MP recovery is a good magician, assuming you want to use Magic Transfer. People with 3 base mp recovery aren't bad choices... but the star here would be Minoriko with her godly 4mp recovery, Desire To Rest, Rapid Charge, etc to keep an endless flow of MP moving. Her heal/buff skills, high mnd, and passive MAG party buff are icing on the cake.

Technically some people might like magician just for the 1mp passive regen, but I'm not sure how much of a good decision that actually is.

Quote from: CrazyManiacz on October 03, 2014, 04:14:39 PM

Oh, I see! Forgot about Minoriko having the highest natural MP regen (Not that I knew in the first place)

She'll definitely be the healer on my team then, especially since I've banned Eirin and Komachi from my team. Thanks for the answer

What about Mokou? Presuming that you are playing LoT2, she should also have a 4MP recovery, so...

CrazyManiacz · « **Reply #816 on:** October 04, 2014, 10:17:15 AM »

Quote from: Kirin no Sora on October 04, 2014, 04:08:19 AM

What about Mokou? Presuming that you are playing LoT2, she should also have a 4MP recovery, so...

I prefer Minoriko due to her much higher base MP though

And anyway, Minoriko can support really well, while Mokou only has that debuff on her spellcard that inflicts WND damage.

Then again, Mokou can be a tank...

Why must some characters in LoT2 be so versatile @.@

Oh, and thank you all for the suggestion on tanks

ZXNova · « **Reply #817 on:** October 05, 2014, 07:53:42 PM »

Minoriko would make a very good healer and mana battery too. She moves very fast, recovers MP very fast, and can heal very hard. She is one of the best supports in game.

Kaitani · « **Reply #818 on:** October 05, 2014, 10:20:11 PM »

Sanae is very similar to Minoriko in her role, and with her passive skills she also has 4 MP recovery. She's slightly slower than Minoriko but has more health and a better balance in defense stats. Sanae's buff increases all stats instead of just DEF/MND and her heal also removes ailments, so that gives her an edge. Although, if you have someone else taking care of buffing (Byakuren) and are not that worried about ailments, Minoriko's passives and faster healing skill could be more useful in keeping your party alive.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #819 on:** October 06, 2014, 03:35:19 AM »

Sanae appeared that way in lot1 to many people too, but in practice she was seemingly impossible to keep alive due to her slower leveling. obviously that will be almost a non-issue for lot2 since people probably even out their levels during bosses. The other point however was that mino's heal would heal nearly everyone to full even if she spent all her level bonuses on mnd instead of mag, meanwhile sanae's heal wouldn't be so significant. It's worth noting that Sanae's heal also has 30% more delay in addition to her slower speed, making the delay between heals quite noticeable.

In any case I don't think they're really similar enough to really make another redundant, and mp regen is nice for magician I suppose, but even 4 can't compare to just restoring a couple dozen or whatever in one concentrate due to her passive.

jaxter0987 · « **Reply #820 on:** October 06, 2014, 07:09:19 AM »

I never had too much trouble keeping my Sanae alive in LoT1 but that certainly was the most consistent complaint I've heard about her.

And yeah, like Ghaleon said, they really aren't similar enough to make the other redundant. We could go into depth about the various different skills they have or we could just say they're both good supports.

Kaitani · « **Reply #821 on:** October 06, 2014, 03:35:23 PM »

Yea neither one makes the other one redundant, they're both capable front line healers with different focus due to their abilities. Sanaes has higher base MAG though and she always heals her target to full in my experience, so it's only the speed disadvantage that matters in my mind. That and Sanae's heal is annoying if you have Hina in your party...

Anyways, I was fooling around against the Great "C", some 100 levels above challenge level trying to nuke all 5 of them with Flandre. The first one in the center seems to take a whole lot more damage than the others, or it has less health than the others, since I was able to pretty much oneshot that one while the other 4 only took ~50 % damage. Then after the first one died and was resurrected, it seemed to have similar sturdiness to the others. Anyone else noticed this?

Sungho · « **Reply #822 on:** October 06, 2014, 04:10:37 PM »

Might depend on when you nuked it. Any instance will have heightened defense before it takes its first turn.

Kaitani · « **Reply #823 on:** October 06, 2014, 04:21:36 PM »

I'm aware of the defense they have before their first turn, you'll be lucky to get 1 damage done when it's up on those. So it's definitely not that what's causing this.

Starxsword · « **Reply #824 on:** October 07, 2014, 06:29:37 AM »

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Yea neither one makes the other one redundant, they're both capable front line healers with different focus due to their abilities. Sanaes has higher base MAG though and she always heals her target to full in my experience, so it's only the speed disadvantage that matters in my mind. That and Sanae's heal is annoying if you have Hina in your party...

Hmmm if we are talking about Labyrinth of Touhou 1, I tried both and I don't think Sanae was able to heal my party to full, which is somewhat painful at some fights. Even Minoriko doesn't heal some characters to full from a strong hit, but her healing does do more.

Kaitani · « **Reply #825 on:** October 07, 2014, 09:25:25 AM »

Quote from: Starxsword on October 07, 2014, 06:29:37 AM

Hmmm if we are talking about Labyrinth of Touhou 1, I tried both and I don't think Sanae was able to heal my party to full, which is somewhat painful at some fights. Even Minoriko doesn't heal some characters to full from a strong hit, but her healing does do more.

I believe this was LoT2 talk, based on the initial question by CrazyManiacz. I can't say anything about them in LoT1 since I haven't played that game.

Starxsword · « **Reply #826 on:** October 08, 2014, 06:20:34 AM »

Ah, I have just started Labyrinth of Touhou 2 recently, so no comment on them.
Anyone know the approximate damage formula for each spell card? I noticed Minoriko's AoE spell card does quite a bit of damage.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #827 on:** October 08, 2014, 07:22:53 AM »

Quote from: Starxsword on October 08, 2014, 06:20:34 AM

Ah, I have just started Labyrinth of Touhou 2 recently, so no comment on them.
Anyone know the approximate damage formula for each spell card? I noticed Minoriko's AoE spell card does quite a bit of damage.

Nope, spellcard formulas are a complete mystery unfortunately.

Kirin no Sora · « **Reply #828 on:** October 08, 2014, 01:32:48 PM »

And hacking into the game with Cheat Engine or other methods doesn't work, I take it?

qazmlpok · « **Reply #829 on:** October 08, 2014, 01:52:50 PM »

Cheat engine probably wouldn't be the best tool. I imagine you'd need to use a runtime debugger like OllyDbg and document the assembly involved in calculating damage. This would probably also be a monumental pain to do, due to the number of variable involved. I'm assuming this is how they were known on the jp wiki for LoT1 before the database came out, but LoT1 also used simpler formulas.

ZXNova · « **Reply #830 on:** October 09, 2014, 05:52:10 AM »

Cheat Engine (at least from what I've seen so far) can just get you items and monies really easily. And I mean really easily. This game is very simple to hack into.

CrazyManiacz · « **Reply #831 on:** October 11, 2014, 09:41:34 PM »

Just wondering, when is the Special Disk (is that what it's called?) for LoT2 coming out? Oh, and I presume it's gonna bring 12 new characters like LoT1's Special Disk?

Excited for the potential characters that may come out

aUsernameIsFineToo · « **Reply #832 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:11:31 PM »

If it works like LoT1, it will probably add new dungeons as well. Since I don't have the first game, that's as far as I'll go about that.

In terms of new characters, they would very likely be from DDC.

Thata no Guykoro · « **Reply #833 on:** October 12, 2014, 04:11:31 AM »

I'm betting that it'd lean more towards TD characters first, then maybe DDC. As for when it comes out, we haven't heard anything. It might be Comiket 87, but at this point, it's probably more likely to be Comiket 88.

Serela · « **Reply #834 on:** October 12, 2014, 03:05:11 PM »

Shou and Futo are confirmed so far. IIRC there's supposedly going to be a significant amount of new floors, boss fights with every playable character that doesn't have one yet, and an infinite dungeon.

ZXNova · « **Reply #835 on:** October 12, 2014, 04:09:00 PM »

Oh yes, boss fight Eirin, les go.

aUsernameIsFineToo · « **Reply #836 on:** October 12, 2014, 07:03:23 PM »

Quote from: Sathatri Komeiguy on October 12, 2014, 04:11:31 AM

It might be Comiket 87, but at this point, it's probably more likely to be Comiket 88.

Interesting.

Although I'm not planning on getting the expansion until it gets translated and I finish the base game. The latter should take a good year or so as a result of school and part-time job.

CrazyManiacz · « **Reply #837 on:** October 12, 2014, 07:48:27 PM »

Just killed Sakuya with a DTH effect using Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana on the first try (playing an NG+)

lol'd so hard

Managed to kill an extremely buffed Remilia, hooray

By the way, @Serela An infinite dungeon? Like, infinite floors or you can explore a randomly generated map for infinity?

Starxsword · « **Reply #838 on:** October 12, 2014, 09:25:57 PM »

Taking my time advancing this game. So far, Youmu makes a pretty good tank.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #839 on:** October 12, 2014, 10:08:09 PM »

I dont think there were any details given about the infinite dungeon, but i imagine its infinite floors since balancing the trash encounters for a single floor of infinite size would be really wonky.

Also if hatate isnt one of the new characters im gonna refuse to buy it and snap all my lot discs in half (ok i lie, ill buy it and like it and treat my discs like gold).