Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F

[Kaitani]

There's none in any chests (Or I overlooked it in my runs.)

There is one actually, but it's in a post game area (can't remember where exactly).

[Serela]

Actually yeah she didn't hit for 0 for me, and that self buff nuke was pretty good...I never actually got to make her do THAT  much damage though, and I played her to the very end too. Still though, I just find that her general value got buffed a lot in 2.

LoT1!Aya's PWG is heavily influenced by how high her ATK buff is since it doesn't pierce defense all that well (damage drastically drops as it gets lower), and she also relies on the low delay in tandem with her SPD selfbuff (using her plain spd buff once or twice being helpful despite postgame speed proration), the value comes from how many hits she can get in during a small amount of time. Her potential admittedly depends on how much you're willing to risk leaving her out for a boss turn or two now and then (she can -kinda- take a single hit...?) or if the boss is miraculously PAR'd or SPD debuffed, since that drastically increases how many attacks she gets in for the same amount of time.

She's kinda like a maingame Chen with more complications but somewhat less paperness.

[Eilaris]

One of these days I really should try playing through LoT1 with primarily defensive builds, it just always feels like such a waste to invest levelup bonuses in defense on some of the cannons.

[Ghaleon]

Well you obviously don't do it for flan or chen or something. But it's perfectly viable for remi, patchy, yuugi (though protecting her from magic based damage is still really hard so I don't know if it's a good idea in her case). In addition, I think it's almost a waste to NOT build certain "cannons" defensive, notably kaggy and eiki. For kaggy, her stone bowl spell is amazing good, even with no attack stats at all she can provide top-tier dps by using that spell on someone like flan, nitori, etc...in addition her other nukes ignore defenses, so losing half your attack power will only make them do half damage, where other characters would go to like 1/5 of its previous damage, or 0, or whatever. Same with eiki. Even without building her for atk, her nuke ignores defense so it still is quite potent.

Also, if you grab a neconomicon before kedamageddon or whateve its name is, slap one on a mnd-build patchy and have fun soloing the boss =P (this is actually what Id id in my first playthru, I wasn't able to manage that boss except for patchy taking 0s from everything it threw at me, even its super nuke!). Incidentally, something people don't realize is that more than twice as high in one defense low in another characters actually survive composite attacks better than a balanced character. For example a mnd kaggy will tank rinnosuke's big composite nuke and hopefully take 0 long before a relatively tanky in both stats but not focused in one character like a mag build alice or something.

edit: Just beat final boss (non-postgame) on my first try on a half-assed attempt, half-assed cuz I didn't bother changing gear around like making certain characters insta-death immune, focusing on spirit resist, etc... of course, both byakuren and hina (my only main buffer and debuffers respectively) got insta-deathed on the very first falling tree attack despite having plenty (just not 100) of death resist.. effing game...that said they and parsee were my only casualties...speaking of parsee, she went from being crappy to op to... she hasn't been useful at all since like 14f again. I don't really understand her... her small box big box nuke used to stomp gugnir by like 4X damage, now it does like 1/3? her long-lasting terror/silence never landed ONCE on the final boss either despite the boss having no resistance at all, and that attack also being rank 5... her defenses are great but geeze, she's just so usless otherwise. Even tenshi/china can do more useful stuff lately... I'm not saying she sucks but maybe I'm just really unlucky with landing terror, or I got "small box" damage at max rank like.. the last 50 attemtps in a row? I dunno.

Hina on the other hand is way more useful.. despite not having arm-twisting, her debuffs seem to always land on every boss, kinda like kogasa's mnd-reducing nuke, which I assumed did that because of her arm twisting.

[Serela]

What's your Parsee's levelup-boost build at? Although I assume it's likely full ATK if you're complaining about too low damage.

Damage scaling in this game can be weird since this game has a HEFTY amount of crazy-high def/mnd bosses. Attacks that wrecked in most of the first part of the game can suddenly start to suck if they aren't particularly good at getting through defenses.

Whenever I do a second run of the game I'm definitely investing more in debuffs and defense ignoring characters; I had negligible amounts of either in my first run.

[DarkAtma]

The ONLY thing i miss fro Lot1 is the ability to change the paragraph to my liking, oh and messing with the skipping walls teleport glitch to skip yukari and some puzzles

[Ghaleon]

Yeah my parsee is built for attack, though maybe she really really relies on terror being on the enemy to do good damage, I dunno. I mean I try to apply it with her but it never lands.. I actually have more success landing a terror with kasen's dark attack, but that one doesn't really last very long. And yeah, later game bosses tend to have a huge increase in defenses, but it just feels like parsee's nukes were affected more. Maybe it just has a particularly terrible defense piercing formula kinda like killing doll made hard to notice early because of incredible potential power...But even that I kidna doubt because on bosses with near no defense like knowledge, I dont recall her nuke's power didn't double in damage or anything (back then), whereas some other characters' nukes did (and killing dolls like x50'd =P.. ok slight exageration).

Terror DID land on occasion back then though. I thought that would only be like a 20% increase or something though =/.

Part of me wonders if the attack formulas in this game in general are far more complicated.. more than just  x*(atk*y - def*z). but crazy stuff like before and after mitigation affinity reductions, IF something, do something (in the formula I mean).

Parsee is one of my two characters with no subclass too because she was doing such major damage for so long I felt like she didn't need it and her nukes would be far better than anything a subclass can offter, and most of my other characters kinda had gaps that could be filled by a subclass quite well. Anyway, because hina's pain flow is just plain amazing now, I tome'd her, and just made her a hexer in the end after all. that 1/3 nerf to skill is actually not too bad when I thought about it because other characters aren't sitting around at -50% effing everything (at least not for very long at all), but hina does so she still probably makes far more use from that than anyone else ever would, that and despite her not having arm twisting, her debuffs seem to always land as though they had a 200% affliction rate instead of 100% or something. I remember on my first playthru I could NOT land ANY debuffs on the final boss except kogasa with her -mnd...But my hina didn't fail to apply at least 3 (and even that is low) a single time (while she was alive, she got insta-death'd by falling tree at one point).

[qazmlpok]

Part of me wonders if the attack formulas in this game in general are far more complicated.. more than just  x*(atk*y - def*z). but crazy stuff like before and after mitigation affinity reductions, IF something, do something (in the formula I mean).

They must be more complicated than in 1, simply because you have additional factors like skill level. Then there's others like large box small box that outright state they do weird damage.

[Serela]

Status effects do have some kind of move-specific accuracy now, which is weird to adjust to because DTH is the only LoT1 ailment that had variable accuracy.

[Ghaleon]

They must be more complicated than in 1, simply because you have additional factors like skill level. Then there's others like large box small box that outright state they do weird damage.

Yeah, I mean that it's even more complicated than is initially obvious.  really wish we could see how much of an improvement you get for increasing the ranks on spells though. Seems really silly that the player can see stuff like 10% * skill level this, 50% * skill level that, + 1 per skill level this, but skillpoints invested in spellcards tell you squat except for rare examples like byakuren's buff stating skillups will make it not copy debuffs (but even then it doesn't say if 1 extra skillup will accomplish this, or if you need to spend 4 more).

[qazmlpok]

Yeah, I mean that it's even more complicated than is initially obvious.  really wish we could see how much of an improvement you get for increasing the ranks on spells though. Seems really silly that the player can see stuff like 10% * skill level this, 50% * skill level that, + 1 per skill level this, but skillpoints invested in spellcards tell you squat except for rare examples like byakuren's buff stating skillups will make it not copy debuffs (but even then it doesn't say if 1 extra skillup will accomplish this, or if you need to spend 4 more).

Just one level does it. Same with Reimu's yin-yang, a single extra level gives it PAR.

The non-damage ones are "obvious", at least. Wiki includes the numbers on how much leveling up a buff spell improves it for some.

[Serela]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Reimu. Even though you can actually use your support characters offensively now with a quick respec into mag levelup bonuses, I forgot about her having attacks, because I dropped her from my party after awhile :V

I'd say you no longer have those cornerstone characters who undeniably greatly improve a party, but instead there's OP-tori (or 'still', depending on PoV) and then in lategame you've got god-buffer Byakuren... and from multiple sources it sounds like Hina's debuff accuracy is high enough to pretty much land her on the list, even without considering stuff like Pain Flow nuking or regen-tanking, as being able to easily lock down even heavily resistant bosses with all debuffs is a game changer.

And then Aya is probably worthy of being in there for feeding turns and passively buffing SPD, but I haven't personally used her.

[ZXNova]

Aya is a very good support. During boss fights invest all of your bonus points into speed and just speed along, buffing speed, and depending on your subclass (magician, healer, loldiva) you can do a lot useful things very fast. Magician and Healer Aya are both very good subclasses for Aya and Diva... well you know diva. You don't even need max conchela dance to be able to do a good job and making sure your teammates get buffed and the boss barely moves. (In fact, I would recommend keeping it on level 1 [or is it 2? It depletes everyone's gauge by 2500] so that you at least have to challenge yourself and think ahead, especially when dealing with those really fast bosses).

[Ghaleon]

I forgot what the suggested order for postgame was...was it enhanced bosses, then boss rush, then maribel/renko, then new floors with bosses like the great 'c', then final boss 2.0?

edit: Final boss beatered, and I can get past the rocks asking for the final boss beaing beat, but I see no enhanced bosses, bwuh?

[Yookie]

The normal Boss rush unlocks the enhanced bosses.
It should generally be no problem to explore the extra areas but I suppose it's best to just do some of everything. The later enhanced bosses are certainly more difficult than the first ones.
You should wait with the Mari/Renko bosses a bit, especially the first one can be troublesome.

[Serela]

Yeah, just do everything as it feels comfy; although the order you mentioned is basically right, you might explore a good chunk of the extra floors before finishing all the bosses. They are VERY large (read:inevitable exp bags), and gives you some good stuff from chests, so it helps with the shadow/marirenko bosses.

There's going to be a lot of grinding on 20f regardless, though. There's never any better place to do it, iirc.

[Nightassassain]

Za, so I gotta ask, who have you guys used that turned out better than you initially thought?
So far for me its has been...
Rumia - She is kind of like an awesome hybrid between marisa and reimu. Her attacks are strong, can pierce defenses, and if things are looking dire she has a random frontline heal. Her increased damage against humans made the touhou bosses really easier. Although, i think that everyone has found rumia to be amazing, so i shall avoid going too in depth.
Kanako - I already talked about her, so it would be redundant to mention her again.
Sakuya - So sakuya has two different purposes, without subclasses of course. In random battles she is a mob- clearer due to her piercing attack, and various target all spellcards. In boss battles, her lunar clock allows her to buff up speed, and with lucky extra attacks can cause her to buff up everyone to 100% speed on one cast. However, since that is kind of unlikely, I shall just say that a fully leveled lunar clock and one extra attack will allow her to buff up the party to satisfactory levels. She is bulky, and while she does have the tendency to drop off in usefulness as a buffer in the post game, there is nothing stopping someone from giving her the warrior subclass, flamesword spellcard, and crossing their fingers for some lucky hits on bosses.
Remillia - When I first heard about remillia, people kept saying that she was kind of like a watered-down version of kasen. She only has a buff, which hurts her, and a physical move as her two spellcards. However, I found what really sets her apart from Kasen is her last fortress ability and majesty. I have alternated between giving her the monk subclass and warrior, and to be honest I dont know which one is actually better for her. But to go back on topic, last fortress causes her to act as a way to salvage a losing boss fight, or a hilariously cheap random encounter. Majesty is awesome when combined with the warrior/monk passives. As it ensures that she is able to stay at 100% attack when she goes on the offense. She is surprisingly really fast, and can be used as a switcher with no issue. And her mental concentration makes it so that she can use her relatively low cost spell cards with no issue. To be honest, I think that the only reason that she is overshadowed by kasen is that people get kasen first, so they find no reason to make the switch over to everone's favorite vampire. Last, but not least, is that she is really, really bulky. That combined with her attack power makes her awesome.

._.

As always, this has been my long rambling post that no one asked for, but everyone received anyway.

[ZXNova]

Just an fwi, Remilia isn't surprisingly fast. The speed of a vampire is comparable of that to a Tengu, so she should be really fast.

Besides majesty and last fortress, one thing I would say that seperates is that Remilia does really well against physical weak bosses. Imo, if Remilia maybe had Sheer Force, she would just be an alternative Kasen.

[Ghaleon]

Rumia for me... moonlight ray was always powerful in lot1 but her bad stats made it so it never really seemed all that great most of the time..however in lot2 it seems even MORE powerful, AND she can bypass some defenses with her passive skill, ensuring moonlight ray is ALWAYS either decently powerful, or stupid effing op... oh, and her group heal is bigger and better and faster than reimu's was in lot1, oh and it cures debuffs too, geeze...Might be my imagination but she seems a bit less squishy too. I mean I'm not saying she has better defenses than 1 but she just doesn't seem to get randomly 1shot as often if you leave her out.

I WOULD say Aya but I actually expected her to be pretty effing amazing as soon as I saw she had an atb-filling spell... fast character + atb filling spell = more than double anyone's dps. Oh yeah, and the fact evasion works now doesn't hurt either.

nitori... now before you ask how could I not think she'd be op? Well she was pretty op in lot1 already, so I figured she'd get nerfed a bit at least... instead she got buffed?! what?! Yeah, I didn't expect THAT.

hina: Wasn't expecting her debuff move to work so frequently on enemies that resist everyone else's debuffs (except kogasa's) all the time.

As for Remilia, I still think she's kinda  watered down kasen, I mean yeah the sdm buff seems to matter, and as for last fortress... I don't know, I haven't had any boss battles with more than 2 deaths yet. But I found she was much better in lot1, and nobody else really thought she was all that in lot1 but me. In lot1 spear was more powerful I found (as in enemies with extreme defenses that take 0 from attacks that were not full action bar moves like slash of eternity, koin3, megawatt, SFN, etc, would take damage from remi's spear before nearly everything else that wasn't specifically good at piercing defenses like silent selene, asteroid belt, minoruke's single target spell, etc). Her self-buff in lot1 was more significant too because there were no majesties or monk passives, no byakuren, no party-buff passives like the one for guardian...AND in lot1 it was pretty easy to make herself immune to poison and paralyze WITHOUT gimping her stats (iirc one item seemed almost made just for that, heart of badges or something? I forget the name)...Last, spear did non-elemental damage, now enemies have physical resistance, which makes her usefulness even more situational (though the odd boss that is weak to physical is obviously going to hurt)...Also, could be my imagination, but I'm pretty sure she's slower in lot2 as well. But that might just be because high speed items in lot2 are far more common like ninja mask, meteor drive, lillium's panties, etc...And none really seem to be good fits on her so much as other characters). I mean she's still fast, but she's always hit 1000 at the start of the fight while other medium-speed characters like reimu were still not even at 9000, maybe even 8000. She was FAST.


I still haven't tried many characters like kanako though.

[jaxter0987]

I don't know, I rather like my current team and Remilia has never left it.

[Ghaleon]

I got the one on floor 19 east (or was it 20 east? wahtever), but wasn't there another stone that required 88 achievements to unlock? I thought it was in the lava zones but I can't seem to find it qq.

[Axel Ryman]

I think it's 20 West that has that rock.

[Ghaleon]

Thanks but i mean i thought there was one earlier than 19/20f (its east btw, the west side was 240,000 money to unlock).

[DarkAtma]

I think the item behind the 88 achievements rock is a megasphere, pretty useful on mages/mokou, Unless you really wanna farm Cyber Elf-Grandies

[Flamon-kun]

Ok, so I've encountered a couple problematic occurrences while playing this game
-The game crashes when I enter 21F
-None of the enhanced bosses are anywhere to be found
-Extra areas of floor 13 and 11 are nonexistent and I can't move when go there
-And boss rush doesn't exist
In short, there's no aftergame.
I've beaten the final boss twice and looked around in these threads to try and find a solution - I haven't found anything that helped at all
Anyone know how to fix this? (I'm playing on version 1.203 with the English patch)
^{Any help would be greatly appreciated...}

[Kaitani]

Ok, so I've encountered a couple problematic occurrences while playing this game
-The game crashes when I enter 21F
-None of the enhanced bosses are anywhere to be found
-Extra areas of floor 13 and 11 are nonexistent and I can't move when go there
-And boss rush doesn't exist
In short, there's no aftergame.
I've beaten the final boss twice and looked around in these threads to try and find a solution - I haven't found anything that helped at all
Anyone know how to fix this? (I'm playing on version 1.203 with the English patch)
^{Any help would be greatly appreciated...}

I'd recommend you install all the game files again, and make sure you apply the english patch last. So 1) game files 2) 1.203 patch 3) english patch. Just make sure you backup your save files.
First thing you can (or should) do is the boss rush which is on the east side of 20F depths.

[Flamon-kun]

I'd recommend you install all the game files again, and make sure you apply the english patch last. So 1) game files 2) 1.203 patch 3) english patch. Just make sure you backup your save files.
First thing you can (or should) do is the boss rush which is on the east side of 20F depths.

Hooray, it worked! Or at least I think so? I can get to the Extra areas and 21F now, but I don't see any enhanced bosses (According to the Wiki, they're supposed to be where each of the original bosses were, or am I getting my details wrong?)
Also holy crap 11F just got a lot harder!

[Axel Ryman]

Ok, so I've encountered a couple problematic occurrences while playing this game
-The game crashes when I enter 21F
-None of the enhanced bosses are anywhere to be found
-Extra areas of floor 13 and 11 are nonexistent and I can't move when go there
-And boss rush doesn't exist
In short, there's no aftergame.
I've beaten the final boss twice and looked around in these threads to try and find a solution - I haven't found anything that helped at all
Anyone know how to fix this? (I'm playing on version 1.203 with the English patch)
^{Any help would be greatly appreciated...}

Sounds like you're playing the English 1.203 patch on a 1.51 or lower patched game. At least those were the results I got when I tried messing around with post game content on 1.50. I'd say get the 1.203 patch itself, not the English one, from the link in the first post, install it, then see if you can get into those areas, then try with the English one.

[Kaitani]

but I don't see any enhanced bosses

They appear once you beat the boss rush.

[Flamon-kun]

They appear once you beat the boss rush.

...How are you supposed to beat those under the challenge level? Byakuren dies before she gets a move even (She has like 560 Speed or something currently)