Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F

[ZXNova]

@ Kirin no Sora

The idea seems nice, maybe those spells probably would be nice on him.

And if I'm not mistaken, at max level, the post usage gauge would be 100%.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Rinnosuke?

Poor?

Rinnosuke is already amazing. And about him attacking, if you sub him in an offense subclass he can pull his weight offensively whilst still being super tanky. Although the damage you can achieve from his efficient formation changing is already pretty large if used well.

So, how worth it is it to use Rinnosuke as a dedicated tank?

As in "replacing Meiling" levels of dedicated.

[Serela]

Better base DEF/MND than Tenshi except with actual HP and higher leveling rate, and auto-atk/mag debuff on his turn plus Efficient Formation Change are both really good passive skills. And then various other high boosts with other cool benefits like high resistances for more tanking, or high speed, etc.

I generally subbed him as a Healer so he could have actual good healing capability, but any of the support subclasses could work. Efficient formation change is a great use of his turns either way.

Meiling isn't anywhere near a master (or even completely ideal) tank in LoT2 anyway. They significantly buffed her attack, if only Gatekeeper Who Likes to Nap's speed boost worked she'd be a pretty cool tanky attacker I think. Well she might still be anyway. Whenever I eventually play through again I'm testing her.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Who are the top-tier tanks this time around anyway? Rinnosuke, Tenshi and Komachi?

[Serela]

I hear Komachi is godly, though I haven't tried it. Yukari/Mokou/Rinnosuke/Renko were my main tanks, and Byakuren was pretty much a tank too even if I didn't quite treat her like one. (The extra buffs she has due to perma-100% as strategist helps put her at tank-tier a lil', but her buffing capability is so critically important regardless)

I hear Hina tank is pretty awesome as well, and Parsee with a First Aid Kit can probably tank like a boss because her MND is LoT1-Patch-tier except her def is nice too. Momiji can tank well (her def is crazy and hp is pretty high, with good mnd) but she's probably better suited to bulky attacker, albiet Parsee probably is too against bosses that aren't mostly magical.

High-tier tanking is a lot looser in this game overall. There's lots of characters who can pull it off pretty well, ESPECIALLY if you're using tank Yukari for her def/mnd smoothing passive. Then suddenly everyone with really high def or mnd becomes a full-on tank. Even Rumia is pretty tanky now that way- they buffed her MND and she's mnd-tanky in a full mag build now.

There's a lot of other people but they're mostly used for the sake of what they do while in a defensive build, and not due to sheer survival ability, so that's different.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Yeah, I kinda noticed Byakuren is sorta stupid, she was taking full zeroes from most of the stuff the 16F boss throwed at her and only occasionally took a tiny bit of damage, Skanda's Leg was also dealing a fair bit of damage despite being level 1.

I'm actually half-inclined to try out a Byakuren-Solo run once I finish this one, :V

[ZXNova]

Meiling isn't a pure tank yeah, but a bruiser kind of thing is definitely what she is. Imo, Meiling is a very good at her role. Passive defensive buff, damage reduction 2nd slot, ability to heal and cleric other people while being able to do moderate damage, and if you give her warrior subclass her damage actually becomes quite good. An example would be Meiling doing about 20k ish damage to Ama no Murakumo at 12% atk and Ama no Murakumo has no buffs/debuffs at all. Meanwhile, an 80% atk Kasen with level 3 Higekiri's cursed arm dealing about 60-70k damage to a non buffed sword. For a move that's not super effective, I would say that's a good amount of damage.
I would say Meiling is best 2nd slot tank, in all honesty. I never made Meiling into a pure support (like healer) but from what I heard healer Meiling is very good. Literally never die.

Sometimes when I use Meiling I feel like she's too fast. Her Brilliant Light Gem putting her gauge at 80% really makes her "fast". It messes up the timing on some of my shenanigans.

To compare Rinnosuke to Meiling is kind of weird to me, cause Rinnosuke can be a very tanky attacker while being in the "FIRST" slot. Meanwhile, Meiling's sole purpose is to be a 2nd slot tank. So maybe you could go double tanky attacker Rinnosuke/Meiling in the first two slots, seems like a really cool idea, I should try that. But... I don't wanna get rid of my herbalist Komachi.

[Yookie]

Hina is a godlike tank even against physically based bosses but you have to base your party around her at least a little bit.
From a certain point on (which came rather early) I had her always in the first slot for anything that's not exploring with maybe a few exceptions where her awful spirit resistance forced me to switch her out.
Like Byakuren she's at an effective +100% all the time and she simply ignores enemy debuff resistance. (your partymembers need around 120 resistance to reliably not get crippled by her by the way)
Kanako is a good "4th slot tank" in that with her you can have a group that is able to stay out forever. (My general group for bosses was Hina, Yuuka, Rumia, Kanako in that order and they just survived everything)
Yuuka makes for a nice 2nd slot offtank, though that might just be because I always spend way more money on her than anybody else. :V
Oh, and Ran can still tank pretty well (at least I used her as some sort of tank in LoT1 since she did nothing but buff anyway) especially with the Yakumo Family passives (though you won't ever take advantage of the full bonus for too long since Chen is not that good a stay-in)
Okuu gets pretty robust in a Komachi-way later on since her HP is quite good and she has Fighting Spirit.
Renko can take hits or evade them for days but she (and maintenance) was already talked about somewhere earlier.

In short there's a lot of characters that can do the job of 2nd slot tank on the side without too much effort.
First slot still needs a dedicated tank imho.

[Ghaleon]

I have not played this game more than once, and I haven't even done post game so I don't hold my opinion as being very experienced, but what I did play with,  Momiji did her job as tank very well. I made her a sentinel even though that basically dooms her to doing absolutely nothing but switching and doing 0s. But being able to self buff, and somewhere it said she'd receive targetted attacks more often (which I really needed, though I'm not sure if it helped in the end). The result was that she was very much like Tenshi in LoT1 only with actual hp. She took 0s very often though, and I *RARELY* needed to heal her at all, she pretty much always had near full health just from incidental heals while group healing everyone else at the time. I definately needed to switch her out far less often than I ever did China in Lot1.

But unfortunately, like tenshi in lot1, she did pretty much squat other than tank. At least she provides the entire party with a very noticeable accuracy advantage (people always overlook that passive, but it's a godsend against anything with any meaningful amounts of dodge).

[Garlyle]

But unfortunately, like tenshi in lot1, she did pretty much squat other than tank. At least she provides the entire party with a very noticeable accuracy advantage (people always overlook that passive, but it's a godsend against anything with any meaningful amounts of dodge).

The free accuracy passive on Momiji is so good I love it.  Also even without too huge of ATK investment she's capable of damaging bosses that I've seen many other characters struggle with simple due to Rabies' Bite low defense mod, so I turned her into a Warrior for some extra element options and she sits out as my nearly-dedicated frontline bruiser.  She isn't too hot against magic and her base ailment resistances are a bit low, but this isn't hard to do something about and she's got more than enough HP to take the couple of attacks that actually threaten her.

I'm only at 13F so far (I desperatley need to resume), but Komachi is also a really good tank.  Between there being a physical affinity existant that she can pump, and the fact that the damage formula seems altered a bit on top of that, she really does survive a hell of a lot.  The fact that her tanking is based on HP and Affinities also is really nice because it means you can save DEF/MND gear for other tanks/tanky supporters.

Other than those two I also depend on Wriggle to maintank, because she does so quite well (especially due to natural near-immunity to ailments); but it's hard to justify her quite as much as many other characters when other characters aren't rendered useless the moment a boss is poison immune (which is far more frequent in LoT2 than 1, sadly)

[Mr. Sacchi]

I've changed my dedicated tank from Meiling to Komachi, after I did that I feel myself no longer really needing a healer for boss fights since everyone is either stupidly Tanky (Komachi, Byakuren, Iku, Reimu, Minoriko, Keine) or stupidly squishy (Flandre, Gambler Nitori, Youmu, Patchy.) literally the only reason I still run Reimu and Minoriko on my party is because Kasen could actually use the healing. It's actually been kind of stupid especially after Byakuren single-handedly killed the Great Mirror on Floor 20.

I'm currently looking for the last two Stones of Awakening so I can get my Jewel of Greater Awakening and distribute subclasses for everyone, but I already checked every single floor and I've found nothing, what gives? Are these last two post-game only or something?

Because I'm literally one step from the Final Boss and I'd want to be completely prepared.

[Sungho]

You can get the last 2 only after beating the final boss.

[Garlyle]

oh god 13F and 14F and probably 15F too oh god switch puzzles with numbers more like obsessive note taking and a small amount of crying and cirno oneshotting every single encounter

although I barely even have to change my frontline from Momiji/Yuugi/Sakuya/Reisen seriously those four just clean house on everything in here

[Yookie]

If you get terribly stuck or frustrated, there are some maps for those 3 floors on of the last pages of the previous thread.
For some reason a lot of the enemies on those floors are also somewhat weak to nature.
But given that next to every nature attacker either also has access to cold or a terrible fire-weakness it's kinda irrelevant. :V

[ZXNova]

I'd really recommend you use Nitori on the 13-15th floor, most of the enemies there are weak to cold and nature. Nitori clears this area like it's nothing. (Though you might get mana starved)

And yeah, on the Japanese wiki there are maps (though, they are in Japanese, but they are fairly intuitive) that can help you if you get stuck, I know I got stuck for quite a while. I think I was stuck on the 13-15 floors the longest. If you need me to get them for you, I can get em.

@ Sacchi Kuroi
Yeah, I don't exactly agree with the idea of Meiling being a dedicated tank. A 2nd slot tanky attacker healer is what I truely believe she is.

[Serela]

ZXNova:Well he said he could clean house super easy, so it doesn't sound like the randoms are a problem.

Anyway, the puzzle isn't as bad as it might seem. For the most part, the temperature shenanigans are isolated into single areas of each map- as long as you don't game over when you're in the middle of one (which can make you have to redo all the setup needed to get back in there in the first place) it's not so bad. 10~12F in ThLaby1 was a lot more complicated, especially to get everything, since several character events were in there.

[Garlyle]

Yeah, it doesn't seem that bad; just kinda more terrifying than actually difficult.

Speaking of difficult, Yuka.  Recovering 25k HP on a move isn't exactly fair... I mean, I've got characters who are almost immune to her, but... dealing damage out is the hard part right now.  Anybody able to recommend anyone?  Cirno's doing a truckload of damage (if I can get her to not get hit), Patchouli and Parsee are near-immune to her damage AND deal lots of damage but can only get that damage out so fast...

[Yookie]

You have to get lucky that she doesn't spam Reflowering.
She's very, very weak to cold, even more so than fire so that's your only proper chance. Or Nitori. But yes, she's not all that easy to beat.
You should also try some specific ailments. She's not immune to everything and there's something you can do to delay her healing.

[Garlyle]

Okay yeah, it did just take a lucky series of Not Getting Spammed By The Worst Moves.

I only really survived that through RNG though, not just on Reflowering luck, but actually because Sanae somehow dodged Master Spark @_@

[Mr. Sacchi]

Wooo, I beat the Final Boss!

It was an annoying fight, to say the very least, after I got his phase 2 to 50% HP he used that move that takes away all my MP and not long after he used the one that takes away all my HP and started spamming World-Shaking Millitary Rule, every time he did that it was essentially Byakuren spamming Magic Milky Way, Kasen spamming Cursed Arm and Komachi spamming Avici to get his buffs to a more manageable level (AKA turn them into debuffs) while Reimu kept them healthy. Keine fell victim to double Great Tree Descended from the Sky and Minoriko fell victim to a DTH proc.

My whole strategy was to get Byakuren into full 100% first, then give everyone in the entire team the full 100% buff, kept Patchy in the back lines with Great Incantation primed for the final form and wailed at the boss with Youmu and Flandre, I would say Nitori but I derped and didn't check the boss's ATB before bringing her out so Gambler Nitori went squish.

Overall a pretty clean victory though, he only got two turns after entering his final form and the first was World-Shaking Military Rule, the second was Start of Heavenly Demise but I had no real problems with it thanks to lolkomachiHP and lolfull100%buffs.

Onto the post-game, I guess.

[Serela]

Gambler Nitori can really throw out a soulcrushing Super Scope, but imo it's really not worth it (plus the mp cost is similarly soulcrushing). Transcendent Nitori with good equipment is very tanky whilst still dealing huge damage.

Start of Heavenly Demise is also soulcrushing ;_; No one on my party could take the hit so I had to crush through that phase lightning fast with gambler Flan and Nitori before he could use it.

Good luck with postgame. Oof.

[Kirin no Sora]

@ Kirin no Sora

The idea seems nice, maybe those spells probably would be nice on him.

And if I'm not mistaken, at max level, the post usage gauge would be 100%.

Force Slash
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Physical
Formula: (100% ATT + 50% MAG) - 50% enemy DEF
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level (Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)

Flash Bomb
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Mystic
Formula: (100% MAG + 50% ATT) - 50% enemy MND
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level (Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)

I had listed the scaling for said spells to avoid confusion.

Also, this...

As a second point, I would also make it so that "First Aid" could cure all ailments other than debuffs when said spell is maxed out(Poison and Terror at the start, Lv2 cures Paralysis, Lv3 cures Silence, Lv4 cures Heavy, Lv5 gives the recipient 1 MP, essentially making it free for Rinnosuke to use on himself and let's him slightly restore another person's MP). The reason for not curing debuffs with "First Aid" is that he has "Battle Command" to deal with that problem.

Is making it so that First Aid gives a target 1 MP when it's maxed out too much as far as improving said skill a bad thing?

[ZXNova]

When I first fought Yuuka I had forgtten about her and was overleveled by about 15, (and no I didn't level down) then I went and fought Yuuka she destroyed me. I felt that she was too strong for her level. Nitori was able to deal good damage, but calming scent is such a dumb move imo (I  really hate calming scent and black hole) Using it over and over, then using reflowering on top of that, that's literally what happened to me the first 8 times. I eventually beat her, she is worth it though.

So before I fight EX bosses, I should probably fight all of the strengthened first right?

[Serela]

ZXNova:You don't really have a choice. They'll be blocked off by "beat _ boss shadows" rocks. The ex boss levels are vastly higher than most of the Shadow boss levels anyway, though.

The first Deformed Boss is lower level and accessible right away but it also feels like you need to be 30 levels higher than it says. Maybe if you had a setup that could debuff it to hell unlike me.

[ZXNova]

Are you talking about the FOE on the 16th floor, or that other EX boss on the same floor? I've seen it. Haven't fought, and am too scared to try it. (Already fought and defeated the FOE)

[Serela]

Of course, I'm talking about the actual boss! FOEs don't have level requirements (I guess it has a level though) and you don't get anything special for the FOE anyway. Well, there's the achievement for having all 12 FOEs dead at once, and it's item drop isn't so bad... but.

I do mean the one right next to it, though, and not the other boss on that floor.

[ZXNova]

Yeah, I meant the boss right next to the FOE. What is that boss anyway?

[Serela]

The deformed bosses are all Maribel's final boss fight v1 summons from Touhou Labyrinth 1. It's pretty cool. And there's significant incentive to beat them, since then you unlock Renko and Maribel.

But jeez, the first is way harder than the second and third, and they have to be fought in order.

[Garlyle]

Is there any information known about the drop of Byakuren's Scroll #4?  I happen to have completely cleared out the fire stratum now and have not had it drop >:

[Yookie]

This was answered somewhere in one of the first threads but who would look there. Someone should really put it into the wiki imho. :V

It's in the area of 14F around the stares to 15F. Just warp to 15F and go down, it drops there.