Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F  (Read 184219 times)

Kuilfrayt

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #180 on: July 03, 2014, 03:23:52 PM »
Also, I checked the wiki recently, and apparently someone has been doing a lot of cleanup, since for one thing "Arm Twisting" is now called "Sheer Force" on said wiki. I'll investigate further into these changes and post what I find(unless someone else reports those changes first)...

Edit: Marisa's nonfunctional skill is from the current version of LoT2(version 1.203), correct?
I'm the one doing the cleanup. Don't do anything yet, I'm doing this while QCing the translation, so not everything will be kept as they are in the current version.

Yes, Main Character - Marisa is bugged in 1.203
I stared into the abyss, and the abyss didn't stare back. Even the void doesn't want to be my friend :(

Now working with Touhou-Online in French

ZXNova

  • Life is an explosion!
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #181 on: July 03, 2014, 07:24:03 PM »
Since I'm farming gems on Ama no Murakumo now, I've noticed that Kasen's damage had went up a significant amount since I gave her ten atk gems.

Kasen with all points in transcendent, 80% atk with 36% boost and 0 atk gems did about 111-125k ish damage to Ama no Murakumo with -50% def and no terror applied.  (with Higekiri's cursed arm) With terror applied it goes up to 125-140kish damage.

When Kasen has 10 atk gems, 80% atk with 36% boost, she did 211k-225kish damage to le sword when it had -50% def, and with terror applied it goes up to 225k-250kish damage.

Ofc Flandre still did more damage (and this was before I put gambler on her).  About 305-320kish damage with 80% atk 36% boost from starbow break and -50% def on le sword. Terror doesn't even need to be applied.

Some characters definitely do need gems a lot more then anyone else (like Chen, Chen, Chen, and Cirno). But it definitely isn't a bad idea to put it on someone who can do a very good amount of consistent damage (like Reisen, Kasen, Remilia).

And Byakuren seems like that one character who would want (but maybe not necessarily need) ALL of your gems. 10 of every gem in every stat. Rinnosuke too. (well except atk or mag depending on where you're going).

Also, I have mentioned this before, but has anyone ever put points into "Sudden Impulse" on someone like Marisa? How is it?

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #182 on: July 03, 2014, 08:20:20 PM »
On the matter of "10 of every gem", you most likely aren't going to get much more than 10 gems for mnd/def/spd as far as I can tell. Unless that was just the way my lottery drops went and it's complete chance- but I had more atk/mag gems and lots of mp/tp gems, whilst having far less def/mnd/spd- didn't even break 10 gems on def/mnd until postgame.

Of course, if you farm the final boss for gems, that's a different matter- but I don't imagine a lot of people will bother since you have to view the entire ending each time.

Rinnosuke doesn't need gems more than a normal character because they don't really synergize with High Boost, not like they do with Maintennance. He can be a decent offensive tank though if you give him an offensive subclass, since eventually (especially with manual dumping) you have enough points to max out ATK or MAG high boost along with all the ones you want for tanking with.

That Kasen example is interesting. Ame-No-Murakamo has ridiculous def/mnd so that'd explain the large damage increase, but that's a REALLY large damage increase... it leads me to suspect something else had also occurred, but I'm too lazy to research myself.

I haven't tested Sudden Impulse, but some people seem irked by the concept. The concept itself is that, instead of, say, 10% damage variance (where the attack could do up to 10% more or 10% less damage than the calculation's damage result) her moves would have maybe 30% damage variance (random guess). However, it also says it increases damage, so in some manner the skill probably skews the variance in the positive direction. It's most certainly beneficial, but research into -how- beneficial would be nice, yeah.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ZXNova

  • Life is an explosion!
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #183 on: July 04, 2014, 01:25:51 AM »
Ah, I actually did make an error. I had made a 2nd save before Kasen had 10 atk gems and did again.
She actually does 150kish damage max with 80% atk and 36% boost with Ama no Murakumo having -50% def and no terror applied. The 111kish damage is what happens when the 36% boost wears off. Sorry I made an error.

And yes, I am farming gems from le sword.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #184 on: July 04, 2014, 01:28:46 AM »
Well, I'd imagine that characters who have spellcards with high multiplier on their offensive stats would also make great use of those gems. Like, if someone has something that has the same formula as SFN from LoT1, mag gems would certainly help that a lot.

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #185 on: July 05, 2014, 03:14:34 AM »
SFN?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

ZXNova

  • Life is an explosion!
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #186 on: July 05, 2014, 04:52:12 AM »
Supra Funky Noise?
Semi-Freaky Narwal?
Supra Force Nosehair?
Sexy Fox Nurse?

Sorry, I went there.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #187 on: July 05, 2014, 07:11:19 AM »
Saigzai-wtf you spell it, flawless nirvana... the spell that actually kinda has a better formula than megawatt cannon and/or master spark (kinda sorta.. sorta kinda.. potentially kinda without eating your sp.. kinda).

That said better stats always help better formulas.. but yes, gems help people with better formulas (nitori) and less so stats more than people with better stats and less so formulas (remilia).
Also about nitori being even more op than lot1 or not... I'd have to say IMO she *IS* even more op... her offensive capabilities are...honestly they are both better, worse, and samish at the same time. Basically she could punch thru high defenses in lot1 better...But so could many other characters (and I don't mean ignore). HOWEVER in lot2, she could brute force thru them better than far far more people than could in lot1, though the times where even lot1 had a high defense enemy, she didn't do so quite as effectively (like so if you did megawatt on tenshi 12f in lot1, she'd pretty much do most of its damage.. but if you used 3d cannon in lot2 against amane no whatever, yes it would do more damage than like 98% of every other attack, but it still would be very mitigated unless boss had debuffs).

Provided boss doesn't have much defense at all, I find 3d cannon to be more powerful... megawatt was on par with every other full action bar nuke like ko in 3, eternity slash, kaggy spirit nuke, eiki nuke, etc. But in lot2, if enemy has low defense... 3d cannon plows the socks off everything else, including effing master spark.

also in lot2, nitori has good defense if you gear her with best gear overall instead of attack only. PLUS her evasion is not too bad, and evasion actually matters... so my final verdict, in most cases, nitori is...even more effing op.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #188 on: July 05, 2014, 04:29:06 PM »
The reason Nitori is OP is because not only is Megawatt generally the strongest option available apart from gambling glass cannons (and cases where defense ignoring is required- where even then it sometimes blows through anyway) but IN A FULL OFFENSE BUILD SHE CAN TANK NEARLY AS WELL AS YOUR ACTUAL TANKS.

It takes a little while to get there, of course, but once you've got the great gear to give Nitori (that boosts ATK along with everything else), she'll have 300~400 affinities and not tooo much less def/mnd than your tanks. And she has maintenance+cooling down to give her insane MP regen to spam skills with even while using overheating... cooling down seems to work even if your HP is not full, for that matter. And she'll also be one of, if not -the- fastest character in your team, to offset her delays.

Yogurt Doll and maintennance+cooling down gives her obscene mp regen (like 24 per focus) and the max MP to not waste it, especially if you dump 10 mp gems on her. The affinites/def-mnd become less crazy near the end of postgame where your tanks have great affinity too and NEED it, but then you get the Quartz Charm and she gets +40% damage dealt -40% damage taken and you laugh as she gradually nukes through the strengthened final boss without leaving frontline.

Even without overleveling much, setting Nitori in the frontline, almost never taking her out, and letting her practically do all of your damage against the boss... is a very legit strategy for a lot of the postgame. Also, Nitori's ATK stat is actually very solid in LoT2 due to maintenance- it's not a matter of her formulas being amazing, although they really seem to have underestimated her potential.

As an aside, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana doesn't have a better formula than Master Spark/Megawatt in LoT1. But Yuyuko's MAG is better than Nitori's ATK and she's much tankier. Too bad a lot of the big postgame bosses have high SPI resist- she's one of the best postgame characters except for how often she's resisted against. Nitori was the best damage dealer in LoT1 in nearly all cases (exceptions being the magical double hibachi and someone's big nuke hitting a boss weakness like Yuugi vs. Yuuka) but she was actually fragile, unlike LoT2.

Nitori seems to be a dev favorite, considering how they uberbuffed Megawatt in Special Disk (well, and previously the unstable version of plus disk) and then this happens in 2.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

CF7

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #189 on: July 05, 2014, 07:17:21 PM »
Somewhat realted.
Old screenshot from a while back of my first victory against
Spoiler:
***WINNER***
. Basically it shows who was really broken awesome.
Sometimes rumors are just... rumors

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #190 on: July 07, 2014, 02:49:01 PM »
This leaves us with a question: Is Nitori powerful enough to use effectively without the Maintenance skill? Because if so, then it's clear that she's OP thanks to Maintenance, and therefore doesn't need it.

Also, I did ask this before, but I was wondering if it would be better if her "Maintenance" skill was replaced with a skill that reduces the rate of which buffs would decay on Nitori, so that her self buff will stack up to maximum all the faster and stay at higher levels for longer. Essentially, said skill would be one of Maribel's skills under a different name(I forget what it's called though).
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #191 on: July 07, 2014, 03:43:13 PM »
Nitori is no good without maintennance. Her ATK stat goes plummeting down without it, and because this is a game with subtractive formulas, it means her damage would become awful, especially against the mounting enemy defense later in the game. Without maintennance she also becomes very fragile.

It's clear she's supposed to use it to make up for her low stats, but the issue is that the farther in the game you get, the more overcompensating it gets.

Since buffing isn't a huge deal later in the game, reducing decay wouldn't make a big difference. Even at permanent-100% it's questionable if she'd be worth using, although she wouldn't be crappy at least... after getting buffed.

The best way to bring Nitori to a reasonable point would probably be nerfing maintenance to a 1.5x equip boost instead of double. She'd probably still be a quite great character, but not overwhelming- both her surprising tanking capability and her overwhelming damage would be brought down to balanced levels, I think.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 03:49:46 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ZXNova

  • Life is an explosion!
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #192 on: July 07, 2014, 07:30:44 PM »
How about make it so that maintenance only increases certain stats, or only increases certain stats by a certain amount. Or maybe have maintenance decay or something. Like if say you get 5000 atk from equipping this one item, it instead decays to 4500 atk because of some weird formula or another.

How much affinity resistance she gets is the literally the most notable thing I see on her when I give her items. Not just her attack and other stats.

I thought Rinnosuke had delicious resistances after investing in high affinity boost, but oh my god, Nitori is nuts. Fix her.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #193 on: July 08, 2014, 01:04:42 AM »
As an aside, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana doesn't have a better formula than Master Spark/Megawatt in LoT1. But Yuyuko's MAG is better than Nitori's ATK and she's much tankier. Too bad a lot of the big postgame bosses have high SPI resist- she's one of the best postgame characters except for how often she's resisted against. Nitori was the best damage dealer in LoT1 in nearly all cases (exceptions being the magical double hibachi and someone's big nuke hitting a boss weakness like Yuugi vs. Yuuka) but she was actually fragile, unlike LoT2.

Nitori seems to be a dev favorite, considering how they uberbuffed Megawatt in Special Disk (well, and previously the unstable version of plus disk) and then this happens in 2.

Of the bosses Yuyuko will face in a normal game, the resistant bosses you run into are Orin, Hill Gigas (lol), Yukari, Rinnosuke SPI/Final form, Cosmic, Master Light Wings (ver1&2), Flame Tyrant (lol), Shikieiki and Serpent of Chaos. Even better elements like FIR only have a few less bosses resisting it. It doesn't hit weakness as often, but it's certainly not that often resisted.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #194 on: July 08, 2014, 01:42:59 AM »

As an aside, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana doesn't have a better formula than Master Spark/Megawatt in LoT1. But Yuyuko's MAG is better than Nitori's ATK and she's much tankier.

I emphasized the kinda sorta very much...It is better if you consider certain specific angles.

First off, it has a better formula than master spark IF you don't have more than minimal mp for master spark, straight up. And when you do have more than minimal sp, it won't eat up all your sp, so you can cast twice (combine with the fact that yuyu is actually kinda tanky, staying out for a second casting is not unreasonable).

Oh yeah, and it hits every target, both marisa and nitori only hit one.

As for compared to megawatt, it's kinda sorta sorta kinda better because its formula  is not too far off against lower defense targets, but its delay is much much better. So again, looking at the angle of staying out to cast twice, it can be considered better (especially if you need to damage more than one target). I'm not arguing that it's normal for nitori to stay out to use megawatt multiple times, or that SFN is in fact a better spell. I'm just saying why I think another user would refer it as an ultimate spell, because it really is in some ways. Provided you keep a character out and the target has no resistance, it probably offers the most "dps" (as unimportant a stat that is where switching is so important I know) over any other spell in the game. Chen's nuke only works well after she buffs herself, which is a moot point if you have access to offensive buffs anyway, and cats walk (if anyone is actually considering it), is just too weak overall to make a significant dent beyond enemy defenses, not to mention it uses alot more delay than listed since overflowed delay just gets wasted.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #195 on: July 08, 2014, 02:48:27 AM »
Aya is best dps if you're staying out, and iirc she can take a minor hit (although it's true that staying out at all is still quite risky for her), but again this is a postgame strat. Yet in this case the bosses that resist usually aren't as severely resisted as with Yuyuko, and Aya STILL does good damage on those bosses :V Except that I think Serpent of Chaos also resists WND 100% of the time like SPI... Aya can at least turboswitch in a panic, speed buffing is kind of awful that late in apart from PWG.

Anyway, the thing about the list of bosses that resist SPI is that- Yuyuko is crap in the main game. Only SFN is a good attack, and it'll burn up far too much SP even at final boss. You're only going to be able to spam SFN (making her actually good) probably after you've finished most of the initial postgame bosses like v2s and bloody seals, meaning there's only a few significant bosses left... and out of the handful of bosses still left, being complete dead weight on Shikieiki and Serpent of Chaos (one of which is imo the most difficult boss before 30f, considering you can just come back to most of the others later with a bit more levels) is pretty buh- when you need her most, she can't make a scratch. Very few characters just turn into dead weight when one element is resisted- plus at that point in the game there's a decent chance half of your team is non-damaging, so having one be useless is bleh.

Switching her in after Shikieiki is probably the best bet- that or doing it as soon as you have the SP and then switching her with HP-leveled Komachi for Shiki's fight. (By Serpent of Chaos it's kind of impossible to decently temp-switch in anyone, since the lowered out-of-party exp and library levels is too severe, but I guess you could switch in someone with half-decent atk/mag investment as a meh glass cannon. Flandre is flandre no matter how you look at it)

As for Ghaleon, I hadn't really noticed you were emphasizing "but it's not actually better" :V That's a kind of weird way to go about it. The meta in LoT1 kind of makes the points against Marisa and Nitori's formulas vs. SFN not as significant as you might think, though (part of it being you're likely to switch yuyuko out to reset delay anyway- you'll likely have a support with a turn for swapping and nothing better to do a decent amount of the time)  and since Yuyuko's speed is rock bottom the 40% delay is actually still a pretty long time... although speed proration helps a lot since you can't use Yuyu well until well into postgame regardless.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kirin no Sora

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  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #196 on: July 08, 2014, 06:19:19 AM »
Nitori is no good without maintennance. Her ATK stat goes plummeting down without it, and because this is a game with subtractive formulas, it means her damage would become awful, especially against the mounting enemy defense later in the game. Without maintennance she also becomes very fragile.

It's clear she's supposed to use it to make up for her low stats, but the issue is that the farther in the game you get, the more overcompensating it gets.

Since buffing isn't a huge deal later in the game, reducing decay wouldn't make a big difference. Even at permanent-100% it's questionable if she'd be worth using, although she wouldn't be crappy at least... after getting buffed.

Okay, so buffs are somewhat pointless in late/post game. How about "Sheer Force"? Or "Extra Attack"? Or "Piercing Attack"? Could any of those work as a replacement for Maintenance?

If not, then...

As far as reducing the power of Maintenance, how about this?

Maintenance
Skill Point Cost: 5
Max Level: 6
Stat boosts and effects from equipment are boosted by (SLv * 10)%

Costs more(full cost is 30, same as Rinnosuke's High Boost Skills, which makes sense given the effect of this skill), but can actually be used earlier in the game and increased over time(Max Level makes it 60%, which shouldn't be too much, right?).
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #197 on: July 08, 2014, 04:22:24 PM »
Maintenance is perfect for Nitori both mechanic and flavor-wise, it's just that it's too strong. Nerfing it to a lower percentage would most likely be best. Nitori could still eke out passable durability to take a hit (just not tank everything out), and her attacks would still be strong (without creaming other people), and there'd still be the "you should give her your best gear so she can increase it" thing, it's just she wouldn't be OP from it.

It's probably going too far to make it's cost obscene if it's effectiveness is cut in half, since Nitori would no longer be OP after getting it- she pretty much needs maintenance to not suck in the first place. It's probably fine with it's level/cost left as is. I'm not sure if the game can even properly handle having to round up/down (or just ignore) .5s of a point from 50% (or other) increase on odd numbers, though.

There's implications for Renko in here too, and Renko having super-maintenance would be a passable alternative but kinda weird, but it's not worth going so deep into discussion that the devs will never even know about.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ZXNova

  • Life is an explosion!
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #198 on: July 08, 2014, 07:13:18 PM »
I like the idea of having the the stats gained from items decay after a certain amount. That way you don't gain the full amount of stacks, but you won't get incredibly strong. Strong, but not OP.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #199 on: July 08, 2014, 08:57:10 PM »
I don't understand and it would probably be overly complicated to implement just for the sake of Nitori :S
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kirin no Sora

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  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #200 on: July 08, 2014, 10:24:25 PM »
Maintenance is perfect for Nitori both mechanic and flavor-wise, it's just that it's too strong. Nerfing it to a lower percentage would most likely be best. Nitori could still eke out passable durability to take a hit (just not tank everything out), and her attacks would still be strong (without creaming other people), and there'd still be the "you should give her your best gear so she can increase it" thing, it's just she wouldn't be OP from it.

It's probably going too far to make it's cost obscene if it's effectiveness is cut in half, since Nitori would no longer be OP after getting it- she pretty much needs maintenance to not suck in the first place. It's probably fine with it's level/cost left as is. I'm not sure if the game can even properly handle having to round up/down (or just ignore) .5s of a point from 50% (or other) increase on odd numbers, though.

Bear in mind that paying 5 skill points isn't an obscene cost for activation, and strengthening said skill over time makes it so that Nitori can get stronger as the game goes on and you get better equipment while improving the skill, making them more effective.

Still, if Nitori's abilities are so bad that she needs this sort of skill maxed out quickly in order to be worthwhile from the moment that you get her(I was kinda under the presumption that she would be usable without the skill when you first get her, but would have trouble keeping up later on unless she gets this skill up and running), the cost could be reduced to 3(which would make the cost of maxing it out 18, a mere 3 points higher than what it is now, and unless I'm mistaken, the same cost as one of Hijiri's auto-buffs).
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #201 on: July 08, 2014, 11:23:26 PM »
You seem to have a skewed view of how good activating it early is- if you can only get 10% or 20% it'd hardly be doing much, especially considering that early in the game is when the equipment is quite weak- with both of those considered it'd barely do anything at all. 30 points is also an obscenely huge amount of points- Nitori has a lot of other expensive skills she likes, too...

Nitori's okay early on without it, kinda. She mostly rides off of the 40% cld damage boost on her other skill until you get decent equipment, actually. Super Scope sucks at first. Still, 30 points is something that would hurt even in postgame. But, in any case, I don't really like going off on theoretical tangents for anywhere near this long, so I think I'll stop now :V
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #202 on: July 09, 2014, 01:07:05 AM »
You seem to have a skewed view of how good activating it early is- if you can only get 10% or 20% it'd hardly be doing much, especially considering that early in the game is when the equipment is quite weak- with both of those considered it'd barely do anything at all. 30 points is also an obscenely huge amount of points- Nitori has a lot of other expensive skills she likes, too...

Nitori's okay early on without it, kinda. She mostly rides off of the 40% cld damage boost on her other skill until you get decent equipment, actually. Super Scope sucks at first. Still, 30 points is something that would hurt even in postgame. But, in any case, I don't really like going off on theoretical tangents for anywhere near this long, so I think I'll stop now :V
Agreed.

For a change of pace, lets consider something interesting...

What's the strongest attack spell from each element?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

ZXNova

  • Life is an explosion!
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #203 on: July 09, 2014, 06:41:50 PM »
I don't understand and it would probably be overly complicated to implement just for the sake of Nitori :S

Basically if you normally at first get 2x bonus stats from this powerful, (like say the グラン・はてなの仮面 [The Guran, uh well... mask] which gives 100% in every stat) would instead decay to like say, 150% instead of 200% in every stat because it's such a powerful item. That way you can still get the 2x bonus in weaker items, but as the game goes on, the extra item bonuses decrease because they're getting so powerful now.  That's how I'm thinking.

Yeah, it might be too complicated. But there isn't enough science for NITORI!

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #204 on: July 10, 2014, 01:36:22 AM »
So hey, looks like my save file came along with my HD's backup, hooray!

So I had stopped on the temperature puzzle madness of floors 13~15, I just managed to get through it, mostly anyway, I seem to not be able to go through the Yukari rock, though I already did recruit Byakuren.

I also accidentially met the Vacuum Worm FOE, when I noticed how screwed I was, I did the only smart thing that someone that has not saved in a while would do: cheat!

Essentially I just locked the boss's ATB at 0 and pummeled it with Rumia and Youmu (With Iku and Keine keeping them buffed) until it finally died. Would've been much faster if I had managed to do that before it killed Nitori though.

Anyway, about the second rock at 15F, the one that requires me to "subdue all spirits", what do I do to get past it? It's been ages since I played this.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #205 on: July 10, 2014, 01:57:16 AM »
I also accidentially met the Vacuum Worm FOE, when I noticed how screwed I was, I did the only smart thing that someone that has not saved in a while would do: cheat!
Except LoT2 doesn't do hard game overs anymore, instead just putting you back at Gensokyo with no progress lost :V
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Mr. Sacchi

  • All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
  • Not postponed. Not in the end. Not for long.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #206 on: July 10, 2014, 02:30:43 AM »
I haven't played this game in a while and I remembered something about the Game Over rules being different for FOEs so I was like "nope not risking it".

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #207 on: July 10, 2014, 02:58:00 AM »
While a flat % reduction on maint would certainly make it more balanced... I think leaving alone, and maybe even buffing it by 20% or something is a more interesting possibility. Drawback being instead of buffing all equipment by 100(or 120% if buffed), it only takes effect on one item slot (the first sub item slot i guess). This would reduce its value by even more than a 50% reduction in theory, but will less so in practice if your 3 items are not equal. I didnt play post much though so im not sure if there is anything like a machine god lucifer (which you can only hope of ever having one of until you ready finish all the post-game).

This also might nerf maint less in te early game too where the player only has 1 or two good/decent items assigned over 4-5 characters.

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #208 on: July 10, 2014, 05:38:49 PM »
While a flat % reduction on maint would certainly make it more balanced... I think leaving alone, and maybe even buffing it by 20% or something is a more interesting possibility. Drawback being instead of buffing all equipment by 100(or 120% if buffed), it only takes effect on one item slot (the first sub item slot i guess). This would reduce its value by even more than a 50% reduction in theory, but will less so in practice if your 3 items are not equal. I didnt play post much though so im not sure if there is anything like a machine god lucifer (which you can only hope of ever having one of until you ready finish all the post-game).

This also might nerf maint less in te early game too where the player only has 1 or two good/decent items assigned over 4-5 characters.

Okay, given that info, how's this, then?

Maintenance
Skill Point Cost: 3
Max Level: 5
Stat boosts and effects from equipment in the first sub item slot are boosted by (SLv * 30)%.

I hope that a maximum level effect boost of 150% to that one slot isn't considered too much...

Also, is there anything in that could be put in the main item slot that would be broken by increasing its effect? Because if not, then there's no reason for said skill to not affect that as well now is there?

--

On a separate note, I had thought of how to actually help out Rinnosuke as a character: by giving him this...

Spells:

Force Slash
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Physical
Formula: (100% ATT + 50% MAG) - 50% enemy DEF
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level(Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)

Flash Bomb
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Mystic
Formula: (100% MAG + 50% ATT) - 50% enemy MND
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level(Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)

Reasoning: Rinnosuke possessing some attack spells wouldn't be a bad thing from my point of view, and these Spells, while weak as all get out, are at least marginally better in terms of formula than the Attack command from the start, although the MP cost of said spells make them a poor choice to even consider using in the early game. However, skill point investment does fix the MP cost problem, as well as speed them up considerably, to the point where he can at least use these spells as a means to delay his turn slightly while trying to deal damage. These spell, plus the "First Aid" and "Battle Command" spells that he already has, would make him a more well rounded character.

As a second point, I would also make it so that "First Aid" could cure all ailments other than debuffs when said spell is maxed out(Poison and Terror at the start, Lv2 cures Paralysis, Lv3 cures Silence, Lv4 cures Heavy, Lv5 gives the recipient 1 MP, essentially making it free for Rinnosuke to use on himself and let's him slightly restore another person's MP). The reason for not curing debuffs with "First Aid" is that he has "Battle Command" to deal with that problem.

Skills:

Given that he already fills up all six slots, I would do the following...

Fuse the money making skill and the increased item drop rate skill together, so that it takes up less space.
Fuse the attack debuff skill and the magic debuff skill together, for the same reason.

And now that there are two free slots, I would fill them with "Healthy and Lively", so that he can recover from ailments that do hit him faster, and as strange as this may sound, "Extra Attack", because him having a chance to do any of his moves repeatedly without additional MP or time loss would help him out.

What do you guys think of my little idea for improving the poor guy?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F
« Reply #209 on: July 10, 2014, 09:40:25 PM »
Rinnosuke?

Poor?

Rinnosuke is already amazing. And about him attacking, if you sub him in an offense subclass he can pull his weight offensively whilst still being super tanky. Although the damage you can achieve from his efficient formation changing is already pretty large if used well.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 09:42:20 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore