Author Topic: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?  (Read 40992 times)

Reddyne

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2014, 03:39:58 PM »
I'm a pro. I'm a MASTER. I got this in the bag already. I'm clearing off space on my wall for Shinryu's head and Omega's dopey 50's car headlight eyeball already. Clever trickery and milking the system for all it's worth are my specialties. Normal/Natural/BERSERKER RISK all the way.

...Is it true that I have to sign up via twitter? What devilry is this? True final boss discovered.

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Garlyle

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2014, 04:22:01 PM »
...Is it true that I have to sign up via twitter? What devilry is this? True final boss discovered.
The FJF is literally the only reason I have a twitter

triangles

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2014, 04:39:35 PM »
It takes like what, 3 minutes to sign up for a Twitter and then the fiesta?   :V
I mean I signed up for a reddit account for further discussion in some circles that's considered like treason or something

Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2014, 04:51:52 PM »
I mean I signed up for a reddit account for further discussion in some circles that's considered like treason or something

BURN THE WITCH

I'm not actually sure if I'll fiesta this time around; I never actually finished my first run last time just from getting burnt out on it.

Reddyne

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2014, 04:55:17 PM »
It takes like what, 3 minutes to sign up for a Twitter and then the fiesta?   :V
For every last moment I have spent on the interbuttubes,  I have resisted the temptation of such bourgeois things as twitter. But now it seems I must conform after resisting for as many years as the average person on this board has been alive.
I mean I signed up for a reddit account for further discus
Important question: Do you weigh as much as a d
BURN THE WITCH
Shit son you beat me to it. Also, it might help to just make a project out of this. Stick a bit more dedication into it. It could help you out if you just see it as more important than some other hobbies for a bit. The game is only so long, and you can always map the fast forward button to the space bar for grinding. :V

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2014, 07:30:23 PM »
And yeah, that's the thing about Natural - you lose out on synergies, which can damage a lot of classes (Red Mage isn't so bad when you can transfer even just the doublecasting to allies, but it suffers a lot more in a Natural game because you can't even do that nevermind going the other way around and dragging other magic from other classes into it)

Yeah as much as I encourage FJF as a first playthrough of FFV this is the main thing that has me worried for a friend who's considering doing Classic as his first go at the game - I think he'll still be fine because I did run the numbers on chances of hitting at least X number of Knight/White Mage/Black Mage, but Red Mage and Monk both suffer a looooooooooot in Natural.

Garlyle

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2014, 07:54:40 PM »
Yeah as much as I encourage FJF as a first playthrough of FFV this is the main thing that has me worried for a friend who's considering doing Classic as his first go at the game - I think he'll still be fine because I did run the numbers on chances of hitting at least X number of Knight/White Mage/Black Mage, but Red Mage and Monk both suffer a looooooooooot in Natural.
Actually Monk isn't too bad; you lose the ability to give it shit other than attacking but eh.  Monk more just suffers from its awkward nature as heavily level reliant and basically being a somewhat inferior Knight in this instance.    Red Mage is definitely suffering there though.

I had this discussion with a friend last night actually.  For a first timer to FFV, Team 750/No Restriction/No Risk is almost certainly the easiest, and one of the best ways to get acquainted with the game, I personally think, especially with the variety of abilities you'll have access to  in order to keep gameplay interesting even if you don't break any rods.  You're guaranteed one of White, Blue, or Black mage as your first slot in T750, which is basically "That's it, you're set for the rest of the game".  The worst combination you could get after that would be Red Mage, Geomancer, Dancer - which RM would still enable you to do silly things with all three base magic classes and hey, rod breaking.

It takes like what, 3 minutes to sign up for a Twitter and then the fiesta?   :V
I mean I signed up for a reddit account for further discussion in some circles that's considered like treason or something
BURN THE WITCH
Spoiler:
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a
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e
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« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 08:00:15 PM by Garlyle »

Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2014, 08:26:56 PM »
Actually Monk isn't too bad; you lose the ability to give it shit other than attacking but eh.  Monk more just suffers from its awkward nature as heavily level reliant and basically being a somewhat inferior Knight in this instance.    Red Mage is definitely suffering there though.

Fair. But yeah, 6.25% chance in Classic of no characters as Knight/WM/BM, 25% of exactly one, 37.5% chance of exactly two, and then since it's symmetrical due to as many classes being those as not-those, 25% chance of three and 6.25% chance of all four.

Though that's of hitting *any* of those so while it's a damn slim chance (around 0.08% of all four characters being the same specific class*) you could always end up with that "all four getting jobs from that pool" being 4 white mages. :V

*if you don't care which class it's ~0.46% chance of all four characters in Classic mode hitting the same class, just for completeness's sake there./

Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2014, 09:04:56 PM »
I wonder if anyone doing FF1 Jobs will have the misfortune of rolling 4 White Mages or 4 Thieves, since duplicates are allowed. Or if Gilgabot is nice enough to not have that even be a possibility.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2014, 09:51:21 PM »
I don't think 4 Thieves would be that hard. You can steal hi-potions in the fire-powered ship, which means the "outlasting attacks" aspect that plagues weak jobs in world 1 is not an issue for them, and twin lances are really good weapons and will easily carry them through the rest of the game. Almagest is a pain to survive but that holds true for pretty much any class.

Stuffman

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2014, 10:09:25 PM »
Naaah four thieves sounds like really bad times to me, the only thing thieves are good for is getting items for better jobs. Their strength is underwhelming and they don't learn any abilities that improve their performance in battle.

Four white mages sounds even worse though. At least until you get Holy. Then you destroy the universe.

Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2014, 10:30:36 PM »
Four white mages sounds even worse though. At least until you get Holy. Then you destroy the universe.

Yeah but have fun getting it. >_>

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2014, 10:51:03 PM »
Well, it's all relative really. Twin Lances are just really good so thieves will have no problem with damage dealing beyond midgame, and in world 1 being able to steal hi-potion is a HUGE help against things like Sol Cannon (you'd have to kill hundreds of Moldywinds for Elixirs otherwise, see Geomancer). Thieves aren't great and they'll still have a harder time than most classes, but more or less it just amounts to more time spent healing, which doesn't increase difficulty substantially. And they save a lot of time by being able to steal Flame Rings and Reflect Rings anyways.

White Mages, on the other hand, have it much worse with their problem of "no damage output except against undead". They can outlast most boss battles and wise application of status effects can simplify many otherwise difficult random encounters, but some boss battles just really own them. Byblos can drain, so you more or less have to run out of his stock of 1000 MP; Sol Cannon has too much HP so you will be spending a ton of Ethers trying to cure your team; Enkidu can drain as well; Atomos is a brick wall that rains meteors on your face; ExDeath is a choice between taking level three black magics in the face or not being able to cast any support/healing spells on yourself. Of course once they get Holy they destroy everything, but yeah... good luck getting there.

Stuffman

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2014, 10:57:29 PM »
> four geomancers

oof

What's the worst possible job spread, anyway?

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2014, 11:20:13 PM »
Four Berserkers, obviously. But that's impossible in a FJF, so four white mages pretty much.

EDIT: Oh and geomancers actually don't have it that hard for the most part. It's just that terrain against Sol Cannon is purely wind-elemental and Sol Cannon is immune to wind so...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 01:24:14 AM by RegalStar »


Reddyne

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2014, 12:32:07 AM »
Signed up for the show. On 2 on 2 lets do this.

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Garlyle

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2014, 06:45:59 AM »
Can we talk about how amazing every single Galuf is.
ahahahaha YES I stared way too long at that Berserker Bartz though

> four geomancers

oof

What's the worst possible job spread, anyway?
Depends on what configuration you're talking about, but if we're on like... Random/Natural/Risk it'd be like... Thief, Berserker, Geomancer, Monk probably.  In that order so you only get Monk when it's starting to hit its weaker point.

Reddyne

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2014, 12:46:49 PM »
QUESTION! Just what's the story on using skills from other classes? If I roll black mage as my first class and everyone has to swap over to BM until the next crystal, does this give me permission to grind like a maniac until I can have all my characters use high level black magic, allowing me to give them black magic as a backup skill for the remainder of the game? Does Natural put a kibosh on any of that silliness if it's permitted?

Also, anyone have any recommendations for taking a series of screen shots instead of slugging through several individual copy-paste-crop sessions in Paint?
What's the worst possible job spread, anyway?
The fewer tricks in the bag, the worse off you are. With that in mind, there's probably a lot of bad setups out there, but there are enough good ones to make both getting by or even excelling quite possible. A friend mentioned that he beat Shinryu with 2 zerkers and 2 WM's and anyone who knows a trick or two knows just how possible that is.


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Validon98

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2014, 01:04:32 PM »
The way it works is that in a normal run (without Natural), you can switch everyone's jobs to the others you have as long as you always have at least one character directly in each of the jobs. This means that once you get all four jobs, all four jobs have to be active at once, meaning if you switch one character's job, you have to switch things about with the others until you have all four in. This permits ability switching, yes. Natural makes it so that a character only has that job for the entire game, and cannot switch. If Bartz gets Monk from the Wind Crystal, for example, he's a Monk for the game, end of story, no switching, ability mixing, etc. Also, Natural makes it so that only the person tied to each crystal gets the job for that crystal (Wind- Bartz, Water- Lenna, Fire- Faris, Earth- Galuf/Krile), so the others have to stay Freelancers until they get to their crystal.
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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2014, 01:07:58 PM »
Negatory on that for your Natural run.  People get locked into their jobs one by one, so at the Wind Crystal only Bartz is a Black Mage everyone else is Freelancer until ~their crystal~ and thus no ability double dipping. 
Garlyle and I had the same party but he was running Natural which completely  ??? ??? ??? me on how he was able to beat a certain boss with that restriction, Sol Cannon I think,  until mentioning since you still have Freelancers at that point they could equip element attribute swords and such.

Reddyne

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2014, 01:37:59 PM »
OK so Normal actually means one character gets one job for every one crystal. Does Random mean characters can get any and have classes all over the place from any crystal? Like 2 rangers, a samurai, and a berserker? Argh I want to snoop but I can only wander so far from home on the internet at work OK back to work.

I might have to beg O Mighty Gilbabot for forgiveness for not properly understanding the directions first.  :flamingv:

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Validon98

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2014, 02:33:39 PM »
Yeah, basically Random means that instead of the next job being guaranteed from the next crystal only, it will be one from all of the crystals you have gotten up to that point. Combine that with Natural, and that means that each character simply gets locked into the job generated for each crystal, regardless of if that job does not belong to that crystal.
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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2014, 02:34:11 PM »
Sort of, since the crystals are progression locked. 

I did a Normal run last year, my Wind Crystal was White Mage so I had to have everyone a White Mage, plinking away for the first 2 hours of the game.  Then I rolled BERSERKER (sans risk mind you!) so at that point I could have either 2 of each,  3 White Mages and one BERSERKER, or one White Mage babysitting 3 BERSERKERS.  I then got Bard, so I would have 2 of one job class and one each for the other two, and when I finally got Dancer everyone had to be a different class, but I could mix and match however I wanted within those four jobs as long as they were all represented.

If I was doing a Random Run I'd still only be able to get Wind Crystal jobs at first, but then instead of BERSERKER I might have gotten Knight assigned for my 2nd job, since the potential job pool adds everything up to that point it doesn't restrict to the new classes like Normal does.  So you have a better chance of getting earlier jobs with Random.

tl;dr you get a maximum of four usable jobs + their respective abilities for the entire game.  You can't "overwrite" an earlier roll with a later job class, so your example wouldn't be possible.

This can be reduced only by Random BERSERKER RISK which of course puts that job back on the table for Fire and Earth draws even if you already got one at the Water Crystal (which is why I think Normal BERSERKER RISK is kind of pointless, since it can't overwrite your Fire/Earth Crystal jobs and one BERSERKER isn't a liability minus like 2 bosses you'd need to have her dead for) and the new Classic Mode which gives you any combination of the FF1 classes right at the start, but it's under the Natural ruleset so no class change shenanigans either.

Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2014, 02:40:07 PM »
Random used to be able to give duplicates, but as of last year that is no longer possible. The only way to get a duplicate class is Berserker Risk(Berserker only), FF1 Jobs(any). It might even be possible to Job Fair for multiple Berserkers or classes in FF1Jobs(I think someone may have done this last year with Zerkers but could be remembering wrong)

Reddyne

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2014, 03:24:10 PM »
OK so Normal is 1 job for 1 character for 1 crystal. Random has no dupes except for a chance for berserkers, but characters can wind up with multiple jobs from a single crystal over the place for jobs like 1 red mage, 1 berserker, 1 summoner, and 1 dancer. Hopefully I can swap up or lern 2 reed directions.  :fail:

Thanks guys. This has been informative.

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Garlyle

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Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2014, 03:41:44 PM »
OK so Normal is 1 job for 1 character for 1 crystal. Random has no dupes except for a chance for berserkers, but characters can wind up with multiple jobs from a single crystal over the place for jobs like 1 red mage, 1 berserker, 1 summoner, and 1 dancer. Hopefully I can swap up or lern 2 reed directions.  :fail:

Thanks guys. This has been informative.
I don't blame you for getting confused; it's super simple once you sort it out in your head but yeah.

The basic rules (No Natural Challenge) is "we give you one job at each crystal, and you just have to ensure that you have at least one character in each job at all times (and all characters are always in a job, not in Freelancer) - past that we don't care what you do, mix and match, go nuts."

Normal gives you one job from the jobs given by the Wind crystal when you get there; when you reach water, you get one of those; when you reach fire, one of those; and your last job at Earth is from the Earth Crystal.

Random changes it so that instead of "one wind crystal job, one water crystal job, etc.", you instead get "one wind crystal job first; then at the water crystal one of the wind or water crystal jobs; then at the third crystal you get one of wind/water/fire" etc.  It's not 'any' job, just any that would be available to you at that point - new crystal or old - are added to the pool you could draw from.  And you can still mix and match them freely, so long as one person is in each class at all times.  So technically your example party can't be rolled, but that's because the first job still has to be one of the wind crystal jobs - but the remaining three could easily be water crystal jobs, for instance (eg Knight, Red Mage, Berserker, Summoner is entirely possible).

Team 750/No 750 work like Normal, but cut the amount of possible rolled classes in half, roughly between magic-oriented classes (Team 750) or physical-oriented classes (No 750)

Natural Only is the added restriction that makes it "the character is forever locked to this class, no switching around, characters for whom you haven't gotten their crystal stay Freelancer until you do".  It's the closest thing FJF has to a Hard Mode, because while there are times where Freelancers are actally advantageous, past the first act of the game you can't do this anymore and you are ultimately more restricted than a normal player with the same team because you lose the ability to mix and match abilities.

FF1 challenge gives that entire thing the middle finger and goes "here, when you get your first crystal we immediately give all four of your characters a fixed class.  No mixing, no nothing, they're in that class forever, and they can be repeats.  Also if any were Red Mage, you have to keep them Freelancer until you actually get it since it comes a crystal later."

Also I decided I had to get into the spirit of things, enjoy seeing unfairly attractive pantless berserker bartz for the next two months
Spoiler:
you should all do it too
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 04:27:01 PM by Garlyle »

Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2014, 05:48:02 PM »
Spoiler:
you should all do it too

Yeah sure fuck it.

triangles

  • gotta stock up on dark matter
  • each pound of which weighs over 10,000 pounds
Re: FF5 Four Job Fiesta 2014: Can I !Mix you a !Drink?
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2014, 09:30:12 PM »
YES
WE SHALL FILL THE THREAD WITH AMAZING