Author Topic: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition  (Read 61184 times)

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #90 on: May 19, 2014, 02:20:49 AM »
Oh oh! Volcanoes and other levels that generate messages likes that are a big priority to enter! If you don't find their entrance and go in fast enough, it'll be gone FOREVER and we can't get the sweet loot inside (especially valuable armor!!!)

Ice Caves are the only portal we might want to consider avoiding since everything in there is obviously going to resist our Ice Magic.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #91 on: May 19, 2014, 02:31:50 AM »
Volcanoes are harder than most other portals you can around this point in the game imo. Once I was fooling around Wizmode on a draconian and entered a Lair volcano, and there was a freaking vampire that killed me like 5 times until I went "fuck it" and start spamming wand of fireball point-blank >_>

Edit: Volcano might have fire stuff that'd murder our Ice Beasts too. Though it's not always required to clear a portal vault completely, you can either just beat up some mobs for quick exp and leave (one ossuary I ran into was great for that, it had a room full of simulacra and a room full of spectral things, both pretty easy to murder), or even in some case just loot the wares and leave.

And that's weird. I don't see vampires on the spawn list for volcano. Maybe Wizmode screws up vault spawns?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 02:35:49 AM by Raitaki »
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

Validon98

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Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #92 on: May 19, 2014, 02:37:25 AM »
I only didn't go in there because A- I couldn't find the entrance, and B- I was worried it would turn into face rape. :V
Derping at Touhou since June 2012, derping at RPing Touhou since Feburary 2013.

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Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
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Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #93 on: May 19, 2014, 02:45:29 AM »
There was a scroll at Wakisagihime's feet.

What a wonderful explanation for everything that's surely about to happen. Welp, let's get started. Stairs, ho!

I... I thought the next level was supposed to be shiny! Well, let's banish the feeling of having already messed up, and soldier on regardless.

A shop and an Koakuma just steps away! She falls to a single icicle toss, and I quickly remember that you do not move via WASD in this game. This is after I figured out, oops, e isn't the explore key, it's "o". I didn't eat any of the permafood by accident, at least!

Can I not reach the shop in peace!? A wyvern sounds a little scarier than the other monster! With a summoned ice beast and some more icicles, it goes down easy enough, although Waki takes a hit in the process. Considering Wakisagi's already at Starving, it's probably good this happened sooner rather than later! Half a feast of wyvern corpse later and we get to check out the shop~

I'm not actually sure if we want to buy any of this, but I know there was some awesome ring NNR saw earlier in, so I won't spend any of our hard-earned cash myself.

Oh cool, it's that Lair place! Let's just check out the rest of D:9 and we can be on our way~

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

Okay, now things are getting started. Waki summons an Ice Buddy and starts Freezing the enemies to death, but the big group is too much for a single ice beast.

ICE BUDDY #2 LET'S GO. After the first kobold in line dies the Ice Beast takes it's place, allowing her to stab through it at the enemies in complete safety as it tanks things out for us. With the power of teamwork, the fight goes painlessly.

Jackpot! With the 6 needles already possessed, now we have 24.

The glorious power of living(?) ice shields leads to more monsters being stabbed to death flawlessly.

The hippogryph screeches! It looks dangerous, so another ice buddy tanks for us as we snipe at it.

Yessssssssss

Scroll of enchant armor, and... it's an ogre, which is scary, but it's asleep, so it's not scary, uh, right? Waki got poisoned a few turns ago by a snake that I was probably a little too reckless with. I'll be more careful in the future. Anyway, since it's an ogre, I don't take risks and do the same summon-and-snipe strategy... or actually, the ogre gets frozen and becomes confused, and I just let the ice beast wrap things up for us. This thing is just too good. Ice Magic hits 11!

Lair time.

...this really couldn't be any better could it. Anyway, we're near starving, so even though this meat is poisonous...

OKAY OKAY FINE I'll just carry it just in case. I soon decide it's necessary, but... I really can't figure out how to eat it. Welp. We find a porcupine and some unpleasant jackal meat to eat instead, though, so it works out.

Oh cool a wa-I MEAN A DRAGON AROUND THE CORNER, but it's only a komodo dragon and doesn't pose much of an issue. Is what I thought I was going to say, but it's bite actually took out a huge amount of HP and made us sick. Awful, but we're alive. The wand is a Wand of Confusion, but we're overloaded... recalling something NNR said, I run back to the entrance to the lair and drop a ton of things. I drop most of the potions of might, the spellbook of frost (as we learned all it's magic)

Okay, being sick sucks. Anywhere, there's the stash. I pick up the scroll of blinking this time instead of forgetting it as I leave.

Ice buddy really is the best. That crocodile didn't stand a chance against that and our glaive.

Book! And we're not sick anymore.

Oh hey, another book! Whilst it's got a whole lot in it, though, the only relevant spell (I think?) that we don't already have is Metabolic Englaciation. Whether it's useful or not, I'll let everyone else decide. Spellcasting hits 6 soon, and I turn it off along with Ice Magic and start concentrating on Necromancy. I'll turn polearms off as soon as it hits 12.

Another wand of random effects. Is that even any good? I leave it. At this point I realize I'm probably taking too many images (This is about 1.4k turns into my 5k run...) so I start turning it down.

THIS IS NOT WHAT I WANTED AAAAA. Running away ends up being a worse decision than standing and fighting, as my ice beast desummons before landing any hits and I end up having to eventually face the komodo anyway. I realize too late I also could have slowed it first, with Freeze. After the fight poor Waki is back at 29 hp and sick.

r u srs
Okay hi... Keine. Um. Eat cold projectiles.

Shit there's two, ICE BUDDY

ICE BUDDY NOOO NOW THERE'S THREE OF THEM. I summon a new one and it seems to die -instantly-, leaving me very afraid of yaks. I go 'round a corner so that I'm left with one at a time instead of two,

Managed to take out one yak. Still terrified, but too dumb to use those cool scrolls that could save my life right now; thankfully more summoning means less dying.

WHY. Now ontop of everything, Waki has only 3 mp left. Ozucobu's armor does not save me, so I bite the bullet and look at my scrolls... only to realize teleporting has a short delay that I'd die in first. I decide to consult NNR over irc for dire assistance. Crisis averted!

MUCH BETTER. I drink a potion of curing to stop being sick, and slip down a hallway until I have the mp to summon and ice beast between me and the yaks, poking them with my glaive. And then...

Dear god these things are fast, getting two turns to each one of mine. I freeze it to slow it down, but it wears off and then catches up to me in no time. Before I know it I'm about to die again.

Zapping it with the wand of confusion was a very good decision apparently. Thanks for eating yourself to death!

Somehow I lived through a floor, so now it's floor 2 of the lair. I don't like yaks anymore. Mass summoning ends up being justified because holy crap look at all those monsters. We hit level 11 during the fight.

The ice beasts were not enough, run awaaaaaaay. Second image is when I realize the wolves are hitting me even as I run, which is really bad. Each time I think I'm about to find a hallway, it's just a nook in a wall. Fuck. Rounding a corner, I summon an ice beast to hopefully save me please oh god. I stop running because I'm stupid, and we kill the wolves and two yaks... and there's TWO MORE YAKS? What the hell. Since one is confused I dispatch it, but the next runs in and sets me at 3 hp, so even though it's the last yak, it's time to GTFO. And by that I mean I drink a potion of curing and keep going and kill it with 1 hp left. I'm victorious and so suicidally reckless that it's a miracle I haven't died.

I'm only 1.6k turns in! Wow. I should take less images and almost die less.


Okay, here's more exciting news than me using up precious materials because I did something stupid. +2 ring of intelligence!

A giant goldfish! "It looks dangerous." Maybe I shouldn't stand next to it as I kill the Iku. From here on the fights go a lot better. There's plenty of crocodiles, but after a freeze the ice beast rounds them up easily.

Being a merfolk means I can murder all these rats with my polearm in safety. Yessssss. More blood for the blood god.

I then made the terrible, terrible, terrible decision of resting one bit at a time using the Wait One Turn key so all my meat didn't rot away first. Watching my health bar instead of what was around me, an iguana comes up and hits me multiple times without me noticing. I died on turn 12893.


Did I mention how stupid of an idea that was?


edit:WAIT SHOULDN'T I HAVE NOTICED THAT MY HP WAS GOING DOWN? I don't even understand. I didn't see that happen. It was green and then I was dead. Maybe I was clicking too fast >>;;;
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 02:54:13 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #94 on: May 19, 2014, 02:58:01 AM »
serela
press 5 (NOT ON NUMPAD) to rest for 100 turns unless something hostile appears

i'd say i understand i did it too but THE 3 RANDARTS IN THE SHOP NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Serela protected scum winning streak o/
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
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Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #95 on: May 19, 2014, 03:00:30 AM »
press 5 (NOT ON NUMPAD) to rest for 100 turns unless something hostile appears
Oh, I knew about that button! But I only wanted to rest for like 20~30 turns and get to a workable amount of hp/mp, so all my meat didn't go bad first.

The fact that resting this way meant I wouldn't know when something was coming to eat me alive did not occur to me. `-`
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #96 on: May 19, 2014, 03:00:58 AM »
Well, it seems Wakasagihime is failing quite a bit in the Lair of Beasts...and that it's my turn to turn this failboat around.

UncertainKitten, you have until Wednesday, 05/21/2014, 11:00 p.m. EDT to post your relay run

All right boss, I'll get right on it! Or at least I'll have something up Tuesday. Tomorrow is super busy @_@.


NekoNekoRex

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Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #97 on: May 19, 2014, 03:05:13 AM »
Well, you gave it a good go, Serela. Surely I can't have left us in TOO bad of a rut, though...
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #98 on: May 19, 2014, 04:26:33 AM »
In unrelated news I started a mummy necromancer run for giggles even though I know it's probably a bad idea for someone who's unfamiliar with the game, and I immediately got a +1 +2 sling of flame (which is slaughtering everything) an amulet of clarity (confuse is scary as mummies can't get rid of it) and two Protection from Fire rings (so I no longer have the mummy weakness) and a ring of wizardry. Now if I could just take off this cursed ring mail ruining my spellcasting...

e:wait what the orc priests just outright oneshot me with divine providence. Okay mummies -are- hard.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 04:33:06 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #99 on: May 19, 2014, 05:29:38 AM »
Nah Beough and his followers are jerks. You're not the only one tonight ; v;

On other news, I asked someone to name a LoL champ, and they said Sejuani. So I was like fuggit let's roll a DDIE and go melee while abusing Ice Beasts. It's been pretty great, gotten to turn 15000 w/o dying so far. Though I wanted to stick with maces, early on I got a +6/+7 randart staff with ice in the Sewers so I've been sticking with it ever since. Currently doing well, but with a slight problem: Found no good branded/randart armour to replace my +3 leather of rFire, so AC is stuck at like 12 + w/e bonus Letty Armor gives, and charging the wand of healing has left me at 30 max MP (with ring of magical capacity on) for a while :C Right now I'm mainly doing Ice/Air elementalist, starter book for general use, and air book for Flight and Airstirke, with cool beans like Lightning Bolt, Conjure Ball Lightning, Deflect Missiles and Tornado waiting to be mastered C:

On other news, Qazlal Patchy in trunk is great. The elemental clouds she generates around you provide permanent Repel Missiles at a certain point, and can randomly kill many mobs quickly (it killed a 5-headed hydra in 3 hits, though normally it's less reliable since most non-undead won't walk into the clouds intentionally so the clouds have to spawn on top of them). Also, scroll of immolation is great with Qazlal Patchy if you can survive at least 1 hit from it. For each hit he gives you more temporary rFire until you can resist every explosion immolation makes. Just took out a whole pack of blink frogs that way :V Your scrolls in inventory aren't safe, though. Also, Patchy is likely to randomly kill your less tanky summons, so you pretty much give up on spammals and butterflies somewhat.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 05:52:01 AM by Raitaki »
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #100 on: May 19, 2014, 04:31:23 PM »
Leather of rFire is basically the best mundane armor you're gonna get in the entire game for a caster class, bar maybe Mottled Armor (which doesn't come with a good resistance). Artefact Leather can also be better, sometimes, but that's rare.

If you're high-level enough and not relying on anything higher then L7 spells, Ring Mail can also work, but that's harder to cast in.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #101 on: May 21, 2014, 06:24:13 AM »
Disclaimer: I do not claim to have any idea how to roleplay Wakasagihime. But this is what you get, so :dwi:

So, last time we left poor Wakasagihime, she was dreaming of many many deaths in a myriad of embarrassing manners, probably due to her nearly starving state.



After waking up, she reaches in her pack for an apple and continues on her journey deeper into the dungeon.  She quickly reaches a Problem merely two rooms into the 9th floor, namely an enemy ice beast, much like the ones she summons so effectively.



Naturally, the response is to summon her own and fight it off. She triumphs, and proceeds to take out a phantom in the same way after availing herself of some bread. She can feel the increasing danger of the dungeon, but knows that to achieve her dream, she must continue exploring.



A few steps later, she finds a curious staircase down, and gets an uneasy feeling. She saw this in her dreams?there are many dangerous beasts there! It?s much better to ignore that and keep going deeper into the dungeon. The devil you know, after all?like that devil up there, but she?s easily taken care of.



Her reward is this strange fan (that she completely forgets to use on several occasions like a dolt, instead burning less restorable consumables). She ponders how it works before placing it carefully in her pack and continuing on.



After taking out a few monsters with ease, Wakasagihime takes a breather, and sees, not far from her, a book. Curious, she cracks it open, finding it to be a ?Book of the Tempests?. ??first the fan and now this. I wonder if someone is trying to tell me something.? She ponders, before placing it carefully back down in the corner and continuing on. ?The spells are much too powerful for little old me to cast, though.?



A bit further and Wakasagihime sees a strange sight. A single eyeball, hovering in mid air. ?What a curious monster?how could it be dangerous?? She wonders, taking a careful step back to consider her options, feeling strangely concerned about the creature. After a moment?s hesitation, she decides to throw an icicle at it and  quickly dispatches it, but not before it turns its gaze to her, causing her limbs to briefly stiffen.



She proceeds carefully after her brush with helplessness, taking out monsters with relative ease between her magic and summons, but she then runs into a particularly well trained, well armored orc. A bit intimidated, Wakasagihime retreats, summoning ice beasts to stand in the way.



Getting hemmed in, she finally lashes out to let her ice beasts catch up, coating herself in ice for protection, and overcomes the orc warrior. ?I?ve gotten a lot stronger than I used to be?? she marvels, a bit of blood dripping off her glaive. She finishes exploring the floor, and looks around ?I have a bad feeling about what will happen when I go into the Lair of Beasts?I?d better go deeper in search of the Beer of ZUN.?



?So far, so good?? She mutters carefully, as she makes her way down and looks around. She turns the corner, quickly takes out a zombie, and finds a grove. ?Oh?this is nice.? Then she hears a roar, and a distant buzz, rapidly approaching.  She looks around, to see bees throwing themselves against one set of plants, and a bear ripping apart another. In a panic, she summons ice beasts and tries to stab through the plants, but it?s to little avail. Eventually the bees break through, and her poor ice beasts are overwhelmed?



?I have to get out of here?? She whimpers, backing slowly away from the bees that turn their gaze to her. She rifles through her scroll case as the bees advance and nick her with deadly poison. ?Oh I hope this works??



Her surroundings change slightly, and the bees are out of sight. ?Now?to get back upstairs?? She says, her voice faint from a combination of poison and hunger. Taking a few moments to catch her breath and let the poison run it?s course, she decides to set herself to make her casting more efficient so she doesn?t have to eat as often when summoning. After eating a bit more bread, she returns downstairs and has her ice beasts tear back through the bees. She continues exploring and runs into a veritable giant. She feebly summons an ice beast, but it is almost instantly flattened. ?Oh?I can?t handle that. I?I think I have to steel myself for this Lair?? She manages to flee the giant and return to the Lair staircase, looking at it with a gulp?



She steps down?and finds a pack of Kagerou yukkiris, a giant frog, and a komodo dragon closeby to greet her. ?Oh I KNEW this was dangerous? She cries, fighting them off as best she can.



She manages to draw a couple of them upstairs, panting as she stabs at them with her glaive ?There are so many of them?? She breathes, moving back to lure more, only to find they are lying in wait for her in ambush!



The nipping and slamming pack starts tearing deeply into her, likely emboldened by her freely running blood. ?I?I can?t get away. I?m?going to die here. There?s nothing?? Wakasagihime gasps as she backs away, feeling frantically in her pack as an idea occurs to her. Another scroll, which she reads as quickly as she can, and suddenly she grows to 10 times her size, her glaive growing veritable swords off the sides. ?Go AWAAAAAAAAAY!? She shouts, her voice booming, as the beasts flee her, allowing her to retreat and heal.



Breathing heavily, she tends to her wounds for a bit before reapproaching the stairs timidly, going through a few of the beasts that plagued her before ?I?I think that was most of them?? She whispers quietly, almost hopefully?



She steps down the stairs to find it quiet?well, except for the ambient animal noises and faint, almost spooky whispers. She looks around before stepping off the stairs with trepidation, making her way carefully through the jungly area. A snake drops from a vine and spits in her face, but she summons an ice beast to make it go away. After a bit more wandering, she sees a slug, and panic grips her.



?K-keep calm Wakasagi?it?s just a slug?it was just a dream?you can summon an ice beast and it will go away easily?it?s not even that fast?? She says quietly, trying to keep control of her breathing as she says the words to pull another ice beast from the aether. The ice beast lumbers forward to defeat the giant slug in front of her, rending it with ease. ?See?that wasn?t so bad?? She reassures herself, continuing forward before feeling a burning dripping from her shoulder. ?It burns!? she cries out, as she looks for the source of the acid. ?What?what kind of plant IS that?? She says, stepping back, hoping it can?t move?



?but it doesn?t seem to follow. ?I?I?ll come back later. Why does this place have to be so scary.? She remarks, caught between irritation and fear. She continues picking her way through the lair, carefully managing the packs of animals that reside here and grabbing scrolls at she sees them. She eventually comes upon?



?That?s..a strange looking frog.? She comments, almost curious, before summoning a couple ice beasts. It?s practically rote for her by now, to summon ice beasts when she sees something unfamiliar. ?At least it should be cold blooded?? she says as she readies an icicle to support her friends. The spiny frogs go down relatively easily, though not without sticking her with spines. She grabs the ring she saw, and the other items the frog was guarding, and reads a scroll to identify the ring she just got. ?This ring?sustains one?s abilities? What is this even for?? She says, more puzzled as she slips it on and continues on her way.



As the animal corpses pile up before Wakasagihime?s might, she swears she hears the faint whispering get louder, a bit spookier?but it seems almost approving. She spits another jackal, when she hears a carefree woman?s laughter in the distance, and a book appears before her. ?Orin?s?Catalogue of Black Rituals? She reads, puzzled. ?Well?I?ll take all the help I can get.? She nods, opening the book and poring over the contents, committing Animate Skeleton, Corpse Rot, and Regeneration to her memories. ?Maybe these will help me survive better?? She says, a little convinction in her voice as she continues.



After a few more close calls, she looks contemplatively at the spiny frog corpse she just made. ??well...I wonder if that spell does what I think it does. That frog was scary?maybe it?s skeleton will be too.? She walks over to the corpse and starts saying the dark, unfamiliar words to animate the skeleton, which rips itself from the flesh of the animal she just slew, making a silent croak before following her obediently ?Oh, it worked!? She exclaims, before continuing her exploration, her new subject following slowly but obediently until she passes the Oklob, which the skeleton inexorably shambles towards. ?Froggy? What are you doing?? she says uncertainly, carefully skirting the oklob. ?Froggy?? She calls out, as it doesn?t seem to follow. A lump forms in her stomach as she continues a bit past, before doubling back?to see her skeleton seemingly unharmed. ?Froggy!?



?I?m so glad you?re ok?? She says, relieved, looking towards the plant?s territory. ?But?if you?re still animated??



She takes a careful step towards the oklob, only to find it not there. ?You did that yourself? You really are strong!? She says, surprised at the results of her magic. She explores the area around where the oklob was and finds nothing of interest, and walks to a staircase. ?All right?I know Froggy and I can do anything!? She goes down the stairs boldy?only to find Froggy didn?t follow. ?Froggy?come on.? She whimpers, exhorting the skeleton to head down the stairs, but it merely stares off after her, expressionless. ?Well?well I?ll just make more, if you?re gonna be like that!? She storms off, tearing apart more beasts and reanimating their skeletons, collecting a small army.



Her skeleton horde makes the floor go much easier than the first one, and she manages to find an powerful item in the process.



?Oh?good, with this, it?ll be much harder for me to be ambushed?? She comments, sticking it carefully in her pack. Continuing on her way, her glaivework and spellcasting continue to improve, and her army grows and shrinks as new threats appear. She eventually happens on a dangerous for, however?



?I?ve heard of these?they can turn you to stone with a gaze?I have to be careful.? She orders her army to attack, but not a moment later, the basilisk locks eyes with her and her muscles stiffen. ?Oh no?is?is this it?? She whispers as her legs?arms?her entire body stiffens and becomes as a statue.



Wakasagihime blinks, confused to see a bleeding, half dead basilisk in front of her, and shallow claw marks across her stomach.



?I?m?alive? I?m hardly even hurt?I guess in this dungeon the old legends don?t play for keeps?? She remarks with wonder, dealing the final blow to the basilisk. ?Um?good job skeletons!? She says encouragingly, stretching her now mobile limbs and continuing on. She stumbles upon a pair of boots, looking at them curiously, then at her new feet. ??I can actually wear shoes now!? She exclaims, almost giddy as she slips the leather over her feet, a surprisingly snug fit. ?Oh?wow, that is nice. The hard dungeon floor was so rough?? she comments, ordering her skeleton army on and finishing her exploration of this floor of the Lair. ?I think?I?ll take a short rest here. It was scary?but at times like these I really think I can claim the Beer of ZUN and get my wish!? She says, strongly and confidently.



End turn: 16,254.9
Turns taken: 5343

State of the mermaid: Current skills I have on are Polearms (because we probably want to get at least to a halberd's mindelay, though I'm pretty sure glaives just are terrible beyond having good base damage), Necromancy, and Spellcasting so we stop running around hungry/very hungry/near starving when we need MORE ICE BROS.

I played honestly quite poorly this session, and used consumables I never should have had to. In the ambush situation especially, a fan of gales would have saved us our only scroll of fear. Still, don't let this stop you from using consumables to stay alive. It is more important to live than it is to save items, even in a situation like this.

We've broken into necromancy and it'll save you turns to always use regeneration while resting. Corpse Rot is better in cooridors when a monster is standing on a corpse (though I think bigger corpses make more miasma? Someone else will have to confirm). Skeletons are, as always, quite good.

I'd say keep exploring Lair and keep an eye out for better stuff, overall.

Pirate! You have until Saturday, 11/24/2014, 2:00 AM EDT to post your log! The save is attached to this file.

Also, following my own rule, I guess I'll subject myself to going again later.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 06:27:06 AM by UncertainJakutten »


Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2014, 06:45:08 AM »
Frick yes, Air stuff, I approve!
What spells were in the book of Tempests, anyhow? We should bring it along if it has anything useful, and we might be dumping a stash in Lair after all.

Also apparently jellies would spawn on a Lair floor that has an entrance to Slime Pit or an altar to Jivya (I don't know which, the Lair floor I found the jelly on in one of my runs had both), so I think we should avoid making a stash in any floor that has either.
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #103 on: May 21, 2014, 06:47:34 AM »
Oh, right, I tend to stash books and generally non dangerous stuff where I find them. I'm sorry I'm bad at stashing, I just found it took more turns to play the organized stashing game than to just leave it wherever and Ctrl-F any spell I needed. Also, sorry I didn't get a good screen shot of what the Book of Tempests had in it. It does have some good spells, but they're outside of our element.


Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #104 on: May 21, 2014, 12:08:22 PM »
I don't know if ingame special books spawn with more spells than these but at least it has these ones http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Book_of_the_Tempests

But as UK said, they're too out of our element; we'd have to pump a lot of levels into foreign magic to even consider using any of them.

I've been practicing crawl a lil', in the meanwhile! Mobs of orcs with a few wizards and a priest suck. I mean, I can generally handle them, but eventually one tends to do me in. :T They start appearing before I've got more than the first few spells in my starter book, so there's not a lot of options... I've gotten to D:6 a few times.

Running into an aggressive monster that's faster than you and resists all your means of damage sucks a lot ;_; I'm just gonna try a conjurer next. E:It's so nice when you find your intended god on D:2
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 12:24:56 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2014, 02:28:25 PM »
Hmm, I just checked, and it has Static Discharge, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Shatter, and Tornado. Our Spellcasting and Conjurations alone can easily handle Static Discharge (3% failure), and personally I like Discharge, it can be a great melee spell if there are no plants or fungi or such around, though considering we already have Freeze I guess it'd only be a better choice against crowds or something cold-resistant. Lightning Bolt and Fireball are both cool AoE spells though, among which I prefer Lightning Bolt for the multizapping C: They're both at 78% with ring of wizardry on, can we train Conjurations to use LB pleeeeaaase

And yeah, orcs suck. Personally I usually have to find a narrow corridor with turns and corners in it, and lead the orcs in so that only 1 is fighting me and 3 are in sight at any given time.

Edit: Oh yeah I also saw a <SPOILER> on Lair:1. Take care if you go back up there guys :V
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 02:32:15 PM by Raitaki »
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2014, 02:58:27 PM »
(Posting just so people know I'm not dead. Real game starts tomorrow while I try to get used to computer controls. Shortcut keys are welcome)

The lair.

A queer sight in the dreary stone walled dungeon, but just as dangerous. Swords and clubs replaced by the biting, gnashing of all kinds of savage animals, all too keen on feasting upon the flesh of any unlucky adventurer who was foolish to step into nature's death trap. But amongst the wandering wildlife and greenery there was a hint of polished white. Bone, crawling along the grass floor in slow, mechanical movements. They were skeletons, raised as a twisted mockery of life ready to obey the biddings of their master. And within a number of them stood a certain mermaid, resting against the moss covered rock.

"So, what do you think about the lair?"

The mermaid asked in a cheery fashion to one of her skeletons, a rat to be precise. For a moment its jaw hung open, but there was little response afterward. Not even a squeak, which disappointed her greatly.

"You guys never talk," Wakasagihime sighed, still not quite acquainted with the fact that skeletons have no mind of their own, "it's a little boring being alone...and scary too."

Her fin ears perked up however, when she saw the sight of what seemed to be a red orb. Since anything that moved was something to be killed, she decided the first course of action was to try to stab it to death or undeath.

Not that it worked, because not only was the red thing incorporeal, but it had gotten rather angry at this sign of aggression.

"Now hold on there!" It cried, "point that pruner somewhere else. What am I, target practice?"

The mermaid did lower her glaive, but only out of surprise. Nothing in the dungeon really spoke, unless it was a witty line before they tried to rip her throat out, or to sing a few bars of the orcish anthem. Not  to mention they were usually stab-able too.



"What are you?" She inquired, cocking her head to one side at this strange being, "you're red, fuzzy and..."

There was a pause as she considered some other word that would sound nicer to the ears. If the spirit had ears to speak of.

"...poorly drawn."

"Well I'm terribly sorry for that!" The orb exclaimed, its voice clearly annoyed, "the artist was a terribly lazy person and decided to slap on a couple of airbrush marks before calling it a day. Curse me, eh?"

"Oh," she nodded slowly, her mouth slightly agape.

"Anyway!" The spirit made a sound very much like a person clearing its throat, despite not having a throat to clear, "I am...a spirit! An aberration of reality! My job is to guide you through this bloodthirsty, monster filled scourge of a land for a time and ensure your reasonable safety...hopefully."

"Oh...okay!" She nodded again, smiling this time. Gods know if she even followed its words at this point. Her eyes did seem rather glazed, and her expression screamed that of an airhead. A sigh escaped from the spirit. This will be tedious.

"Now onward!" It shouted with bravado in its voice, nudging itself to the direction of the stairs leading downward, "at least, as soon as I figure out the gods smidgened controls..."

"Controls?"

"Nothing of your concern, move on!"

« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 03:00:06 PM by NotaPirate »

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2014, 03:10:09 PM »
@Raitaki: What do you mean? I should have fully cleared Lair 1 and 2. It's possible I missed something but I don't remember anything really strange...

@Pirate: ...this is going to be amazing.


Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2014, 03:18:54 PM »
(Posting just so people know I'm not dead. Real game starts tomorrow while I try to get used to computer controls. Shortcut keys are welcome)
The best advice is probably that if you hover the mouse over something (especially all the buttons on the right side of the screen) it will tell you the keyboard shortcut key. Once you get used to some of those (although keyboard spellcasting is still too weird for me if I need more than 1 spell), gameplay gets a -lot- faster. Using the arrow keys works for movement, too, although mostly using autoexplore is probably safer due to getting auto-stopped when an enemy appears.

Although yes, I'm totally looking forward to your turn now.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2014, 03:59:45 PM »
@Raitaki: What do you mean? I should have fully cleared Lair 1 and 2. It's possible I missed something but I don't remember anything really strange...
Spoiler:
It was a seven-headed Rankurri. If you stood one tile left of the stairs to the dungeon you'll see it just behind the upper wall. Well, it might wake up and wander off somewhere when you guys play, so I can't guarantee it'll still be there.
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
  • *
  • Catgirl Enthusiast
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #110 on: May 21, 2014, 06:39:39 PM »
Spoiler:
It was a seven-headed Rankurri. If you stood one tile left of the stairs to the dungeon you'll see it just behind the upper wall. Well, it might wake up and wander off somewhere when you guys play, so I can't guarantee it'll still be there.
>Implying
Spoiler:
Hydras
are a match at all for Ice Bros in numbers
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2014, 03:18:37 PM »
Wakasagihime was enthusiastic. Too enthusiastic, for someone who was going to risk herself getting mauled by beasts.

"So, so," she spoke, her eagerness all too clear in her voice, "is it time we went, now?"

"Not yet," the spirit barked back, "as your supervisor I must know everything. Your spells, abilities...all that you must have to survive!"

It was given nothing but a simple blank stare, and it decided that it would be quicker if it just did the whole checking itself.





"Seems you have quite the arsenal...we can work with this," the spirit bobbed up and down, as if nodding.

"Uhuh, it's still a little scary though."

"We'll pull through," the spirit spoke reassuringly, "now let us be off!"



The start of the journey was uneventful. Weak monsters that fell quick to the glaive.



There went an enraged black bear, but that too was dispatched with the help of an ice bro.

"Ice bros?" The spirit cut in, a hint of disgruntlement in its voice, "why ice bros?"



"Because they're bros!" Wakasagihime replied cheerily. Not that she knew why she called them that; for some inexplicable reason she had simply picked the habit up. As with...nearly every little thing she did, really.

"Look," she pointed at one by her side, "don't you think it's rather manly and strong, and a cool buddy?"

There was a beat.

"You did not just make that pun."

"I did!" The mermaid giggled, to the subtle chagrin of the other.



Their idle conversation quickly came to an end, however, as things grew severe.



...But yet again failed to match her summons in might.



The third floor was cleared without much resistance. Victorious, she unloaded some of the less useful items she'd found by the staircase. Perhaps she was made to fight a little cautiously, but she couldn't blame the spirit. Erring on the side of caution was, after all, the best way to survive.



Fourth floor. Greeted by a spiny frog, but she crushed it with icicles. Necromancy studying was cut short, given the need for her to cast without hunger.



Fate seems to have taken a turn...



...But only for a mere, fleeting moment.

"Keep it," the spirit suggested, "a slight negative enchant will not quell its crushing power."

She did as she was told, though she hoped her companion would speak in simpler terms.



"Yaks!" The spirit cried, quivering in slight agitation, "take care, they are deadly even alone."

Again, Wakasagihime's response was that of an expressionless gaze.

"Those are hakutakus," she declared flatly.

"No they're not."

"Yes they are," her head bobbed furiously, almost an amusing sight.

The spirit would have wrung its hands then, if it had any, "fine, whatever. Hakutakus. Don't die."



But even caution did nothing to those fluffballs of pure fury and death death. She could only run, urged on by the frantic voice of her companion.

"The exit!" It cried, "to the exit!'

"Not with one of them just behind me!" She half squeaked, panting from both her wounds and exhaustion.

She had to do something. But what?



"Save me, wind!" The mermaid cried, but the breeze hardly stopped them in their rampage. A single air elemental dropped in however, striking down each yak with brutal force.



Wakasagihime had been saved from death, once more.

"So much for cautiousness," the spirit remarked dourly.

"We will be fine," she replied, ever the optimist.



"Oh, what's this?" The mermaid stopped briefly over a stack of papyrus, bounded thinly by a blue cover.

"Ohoho," the spirit remarked with a hint of arrogance, "why, that is a book of course."

"Yes, well..." the mermaid gestured to flip open the book, having no response to the sarcasm.



"A book...of power?" Her eyes widened slightly at the lists of thaumaturgy, all perfect for turning foes to dust. She kept it, though unsure just when she could cast any.



Desperation.

"Potions!" The spirit barked, its voice brimming with concern as the gnashing beasts mauled at her flesh.

"But I might need t-"

"What matters is the present; now do it!"

A potion of haste and healing was quaffed, and Wakasagihime dived into the safety of a corridor. With her flank protected by ice beasts, and the way in trapped by a sickly oozing gas from the corpse rot, she pulled through once more.



"This is too reckless," the spirit sighed, still unused to how deadly the animals were.



Pits, and a boulder beetle.

"If I hit it hard, do you think it will-"

"This is not golf," the spirit interrupted sharply.



"Oh..."

"Dive to the side, you fool!"



The beetle struck the walls with a thundering crash. With one strike, it chomped off the mermaid's flesh, leaving her bleeding profusely with a single wound.




Still, the icy wall provided by the ice bros proved to be more than suitable.



The fourth floor was cleared, but not without problems.



The fifth floor opened to a suspicious clearing in some forest.



A fury of wretched, snapping teeth greeted her. Not that the sharks posed a challenge; ice bros prevailed once more.


A brief interlude.

"Our weapon is horrible," The spirit complained.

"That's what we have, though," Wakasagihime sighed, "even if this is a big, heavy weapon it's not good at all..."

"Then it's high time we made it better," The spirit huffed, "to the stash!"

The mermaid obliged, and with some scrambling for scrolls, ended up with seemed a fair result.



"This will do...hopefully."




"Death yaks," the spirit breathed.

"Death hakutakus," Wakasagihime corrected.

"Yes, yes, deathtakuhakuswhatever," the spirit resisted the urge to shout at the other, "look just stay away and..."

"HEEEEEEYYYYY!" Wakasagihime exclaimed, waving both arms in the loudest show of sound she could possibly make, "HEY I'M OVER HEEEEREEEEE!"

"You-"



"YOU FOOL!"
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 05:51:19 PM by NotaPirate »

Raitaki

  • 雷滝
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2014, 06:58:22 PM »
Oh hey, a book of Power. More reasons to train Conjurations! \o/
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
  • *
  • Catgirl Enthusiast
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2014, 11:35:17 PM »
I find it kinda hilarious that Ice Bros became a game-long thing now
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #114 on: May 23, 2014, 03:46:57 PM »
"Kyahahahaha!"



"Why are you doing this?" The spirit yelled, outraged at the mermaid's complete lack of common sense. There was no answer given; Wakasagihime was simply having too much fun. Round the corners she sped, the death yaks a mere few inches behind her back. Blowing a quick raspberry, she left for the stairs upward, leaving behind all but one death yak.



Alone, the death yak was of little threat to her and the ice bros. It was swiftly pummelled to death.



"That was fun," she exclaimed brightly, but the spirit merely sighed. She was going to die. No insane person would live with that recklessness.

Fate seemed to agree, for Wakasagihime was set upon another conundrum.




Half dead once again, and at threat of being killed, she could only blink away for her ice bros to finish the job, but not without an earful from her companion. But as per usual she simply trundled along like the airhead she seemed to be, resuming her routine of killing things dead.

Just as she struck the killing blow however, she heard a rasping voice in her ear, noticeably familiar:

"You do well under my service, mortal...take this with you."


A book was dropped onto her lap...Kikubaaqudga's Reference Book on Sinister Secrets.

"You worship the creepiest god," the spirit complained, though it did look on to just what was contained beneath the skin-like paper.



"Oh my..." Wakasagihime breathed, a slight mischievous smile playing at her lips.

"Seems there will be some use for necromancy yet," the spirit bobbed.



The death yak returns....but the mermaid had other ideas than running.

"Run if you must," the spirit advised, all too aware of the terrain advantage. She noddded, and threw out her first trick: corpse rot. A sticking mass of rot permeated through the grass, sending the yak into a severe illness.



Those that did not succumb to the rot was led in a circle by the mermaid, swift as she was in the water. With a resounding blow she struck the third in the skull, ending the skirmish with little trouble.



The remaining herd of death yaks...dispatched with ease, of course.



...Or perhaps not.



Wakisagihime began to panic. This wasn't supposed to happen at all. Her healing potions were all but finished, for she was foolish...or reckless enough to attack the yak in its own grounds. A scroll of teleportation was quickly fished out, and she was saved from death once more.

"...We are doomed," the spirit made a cringing noise, "we are without potions."

"You told me the present was what matters!" Wakisagihime countered.

"But not reckless usage!" It snapped back.



Once last rematch...this time in the mermaids favour.



And thus the fifth floor of the lair concluded...but not without loss.




The sixth floor...also the entrance to the shoals.



There was little report. The sixth floor was cleared without resistance. There was only the final floor left...

"I knew we could do it!" Wakasagihime cheered with a little clap of the hands.

But there was no one to listen to her.

"Eh? Spirit-san, where are you?" She cupped her hands about her mouth and called for her companion, but it had long disappeared without word.

"Oh...oh well," Wakasagihime sighed, turning to the jackal skeleton with her, "it'll be back...won't it?"



Turn End

Turn: 22385.5

Of note:

Yes I quaffed all my heals in a fit of stupidity and wrong button pressing. Also some cures because I'm not used to how squishy Wasabihime was. Thankfully I unearthed a wand of healing, so reserve your recharges for that.

Simulacra is almost ready to use. I recommend getting it  online before moving to conjurations.

Stash is on Lair: 3

Corpse rot is luv, corpse rot is lyfe.

(Do put me back on the queue; I promise i won't take so long the next time ;w;)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 03:52:09 PM by NotaPirate »

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #115 on: May 23, 2014, 04:04:39 PM »
* UncertainJakutten grins happily, looking at Pirate with a ^_^ expression

So, Pirate. What is 22,385-16,254?

Is it less than 7,000? Yes. Yes it is.
But is it less than 6,000? Why no, I don't believe it is

* UncertainJakutten growls and tears Pirate's still beating heart out of his body

AS I SAID, you are to take 5,000 turns and not many more! We will still take the log and he can sign up again, but it is unwise to continually provoke my wrath!

All that said, good update, Pirate, and Totaku, you have until Monday, May 26th, 2014, 12:00 PM EDT to post an update

Liking we have a /hw and a bardiche. When we hit 6 starts of Kiku piety, we're going to get a choice where we can either pain brand a weapon of our choice or get the Necronomicon. We probably do not want to pain brand the bardiche because as pirate pointed out to me, we need 26 polearms to hit mindelay and you want pain to go off as much as possible. However, if we find a demon trident, that likely should be something we consider heavily.

I agree with getting Simulacra online, and after that we should probably consider learning and getting Orb of Destruction castable. Fulminent Prism is really good but it's going to start to fall off as we go deeper in the game.


Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #116 on: May 23, 2014, 04:20:21 PM »
Yessssss we got simulacrum in the gift book. Perfect.

Random question:When running a wizardy build, is it worth training up a few levels in shields if you find a buckler (as a normal-size race) to negate penalties, or should you just not bother using it when you have spells that get bothered enough to care? e:five seconds later I accidentally cast blink WHY DID THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN AAAA http://puu.sh/8XWM4.jpg
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 04:22:51 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
  • *
  • Catgirl Enthusiast
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #117 on: May 23, 2014, 06:43:51 PM »
Yessssss we got simulacrum in the gift book. Perfect.

Random question:When running a wizardy build, is it worth training up a few levels in shields if you find a buckler (as a normal-size race) to negate penalties, or should you just not bother using it when you have spells that get bothered enough to care? e:five seconds later I accidentally cast blink WHY DID THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN AAAA http://puu.sh/8XWM4.jpg
Yes, you need 5 Shields for no penalties in Spellcasting with a buckler, or only a measly couple points if you're also wearing a robe. It's never a bad idea to have one, unless you've been training in Staves and have a pretty nice 2-handed stave or lajatang
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
  • *
  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #118 on: May 23, 2014, 07:24:39 PM »
Sign me up.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Crawl Relay Revival, 0.14 Edition
« Reply #119 on: May 23, 2014, 07:26:57 PM »
A potion of mutation took away my Horns 1 mutation (which I wanted so I could put my +3 int helmet back on) and then... gave me horns 1 back at the same time. What. Please.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore