If ZUN died, what would happen to Touhou

[BlueFlameBird]

If ZUN suddenly one day dies from liver failure. What will happen to Touhou? What would become/happen to Touhou fan-base. Will Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Konami, Square Enix, or Namco Bandai try to claim rights to it?

What I think would happen is that, after ZUN's death, many fans will still continue to make fan made stuff, without having to worry about restrictions anymore. The Touhou fanbase would be smaller. Fears that a company, or some company that has little rights over Touhou may make it mainstream, and change it into something its not.

What do you think would happen?

[98digger]

This is actually a very interesting topic. I'd imagine that if ZUN did for some reason die, he has already planned for the rights to be transferred, possibly to Twilight Frontier or another doujin group. Unless the rights to Touhou were put up for sale, I don't think Nintendo or Sony would be able to get ahold of them.

Even if ZUN did die, I don't think the fan base would get smaller. Touhou already has enough existing games and characters to sustain itself among the fans.

Anyways, I am interested in seeing where this post goes  :V

[Serela]

No longer having the promise of more official content coming for the series has a powerful effect. One of the (many) reasons Touhou stays strong is because generally we get a new game at least once a year, if not more. Even if he took longer now and then, fans know it's going to be coming; we know we're going to keep getting more and more Touhou stuff. But if the series ended (due to death of creator), well... the stuff would probably peak as everyone does their swan song or farewells or what not, and then things would peter out gradually. It wouldn't just -go away-, but, it'd be a lot less big of a thing.

Things that are ongoing catch people's attention and hold it long-term. Thinking about what already happened, what will happen next, eagerly anticipating the future, etc. But then once it's over, all you have is looking back on what happened... it's different. One way to think about it is like how an anime (lol) holds your attention; if you're into it, you think about it a lot as it's ongoing, but once they release the final episode and it's over, within a week or two you're probably thinking about it far less than you used to.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

I'm pretty sure the rights would be transferred to some other Doujin Circle, like it was mentioned on the second post.

But knowing the fanbase, they'd probably say that the games post ZUN's death would not be considered canon, even if they were made by Tasofro or something. And that they suck, that they're not like the older games... blah blah blah.

[TresserT]

I don't think the fan base would collapse immediately if at all. ZUN's death would give touhou a lot of publicity. If ZUN transfered rights to Tasofro or some other circle and they continued releasing games, combined with that wave of publicity, touhou would probably get a lot of new fans. But like Synnae said, old fans would probably lose interest.
If ZUN didn't transfer rights and touhou was bought by some larger company like Nintendo I think it would become very mainstream. That would probably be the best route for touhou popularity wise, but I think it would become something completely different anyway. So in the end, it wouldn't really be the touhou we know and love.
If no one continued making official touhou games I think the fandom would stay strong for a while. But with no new official material it would eventually die off.

[Drake]

Will Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Konami, Square Enix, or Namco Bandai try to claim rights to it? [...] Fears that a company, or some company that has little rights over Touhou may make it mainstream, and change it into something its not.

straight up "wat"

[SirSlarty]

The creative rights to Touhou would be willed to Kirin Brewery.

Or his wife.

[I have no name]

But knowing the fanbase, they'd probably say that the games post ZUN's death would not be considered canon, even if they were made by Tasofro or something. And that they suck, that they're not like the older games... blah blah blah.

To be fair this kind of happens already...  :V
In the same token, however, there's still a lot of people who enjoy the new things and that would be the case even here.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Perhaps fan-made Touhou games would soon litter the entire fanbase. Maybe the whole fandom will soon circulate on who is the best clone-ZUN, the one most fit to continue his job?

[BlueFlameBird]

straight up "wat"

Just putting it as a possibility, if ZUN didn't transfer any rights, or if he did, and a large company such as Sony or Nintendo came along, and bought it out. They would most likely change everything, making us no longer recognize Touhou we knew and loved.

[Tengukami]

I'm just going to post what I said the last time this question was asked (and in the future, please do post these random, one-off question in the Miscellaneous Questions Thread):

As a god-king, upon ZUN's death he will be interred in a giant tomb which has already been built under the streets of Akihabara. His burial chamber will be adorned with plushies, scrolls and figmas, and 100 otakus will be buried alive with him. All Touhou fans will shave their heads and observe a period of mourning of a year and a day. It's on his blog, look it up if you don't believe me.

Also:

Just putting it as a possibility, if ZUN didn't transfer any rights, or if he did, and a large company such as Sony or Nintendo came along, and bought it out. They would most likely change everything, making us no longer recognize Touhou we knew and loved.

I think Drake's "what" was based on the notions that a) ZUN wouldn't - or doesn't already have - an heir to Touhou rights, b) that some random company could "buy out" a game series without anyone to buy it out from, and c) if Sony, Nintendo and the like, if they have an interest in the series, would not have already approached ZUN about buying out his one-man doujin operation while still alive.

[BlueFlameBird]

I'm just going to post what I said the last time this question was asked (and in the future, please do post these random, one-off question in the Miscellaneous Questions Thread)

Ah, sorry about that, I will keep that in mind next time.

[Imosa]

Given US copywrite laws (which I realize don't necessarily apply to this case) Even if ZUN did die without passing on the rights to the series, a large company still couldn't come in and start using the series since stuff is protected after the death of the author (for some reason).

[Failure McFailFace]

a large company still couldn't come in and start using the series since stuff is protected after the death of the author (for some reason).

If ZUN dies right now, he would be 37.

US copyright says that your work, after copyrighting it, would be your life + 70 years.

So yeah, if ZUN dies today, none of the big companies would be able to work on it until 2111.

[BlueFlameBird]

If ZUN dies right now, he would be 37.

US copyright says that your work, after copyrighting it, would be your life + 70 years.

So yeah, if ZUN dies today, none of the big companies would be able to work on it until 2111.

Indeed, unfortunately this is not the U.S of A. I don't know if Japan has similar copyright laws to the US. So like Imosa said, it doesn't necessarily apply to this case. Correct me if I am wrong, but ZUN hasn't copyrighted Touhou has he?

[NekoNekoRex]

Indeed, unfortunately this is not the U.S of A. I don't know if Japan has similar copyright laws to the US. So like Imosa said, it doesn't necessarily apply to this case. Correct me if I am wrong, but ZUN hasn't copyrighted Touhou has he?

I'm unsure if it officially is copyright to ZUN/Team Shanghai Alice, but it is stated in his Terms of Use that all Touhou content belongs to his circle.

I would reckon to guess that whoever wanted to continue making Touhou Games would likely need to head the circle in ZUN's stead.

[Clarste]

Japanese copyright law is nearly identical to US copyright law for our purposes. Although I think it's 50 years instead of 70. ZUN has an open license agreement, but he still holds the copyright and can revoke the license whenever he wants, if he felt like it.

Even when the 50 years expire though, that doesn't give anyone the right to "buy out" the rights, in fact it does the opposite: it means no one can own it anymore. It becomes unprotected public domain, like Shakespeare or something. Anyone could use it for any purpose without anyone's permission. While that does give Nintendo or whoever the right to make Touhou products, they would be no more official than doujinshi currently are, and any other major company could also make competing Touhou products at the same time with no legal issues. Just like people constantly make their own variations of Shakespeare's plays.

[BlueFlameBird]

Japanese copyright law is nearly identical to US copyright law for our purposes. Although I think it's 50 years instead of 70. ZUN has an open license agreement, but he still holds the copyright and can revoke the license whenever he wants, if he felt like it.

Even when the 50 years expire though, that doesn't give anyone the right to "buy out" the rights, in fact it does the opposite: it means no one can own it anymore. It becomes unprotected public domain, like Shakespeare or something. Anyone could use it for any purpose without anyone's permission. While that does give Nintendo or whoever the right to make Touhou products, they would be no more official than doujinshi currently are, and any other major company could also make competing Touhou products at the same time with no legal issues. Just like people constantly make their own variations of Shakespeare's plays.

I see, well if that is indeed the case all would be well. Though if he transfers all of the rights to someone ZUN can trust, and is very close to him, like his beloved wife, then I wonder how she would handle our beloved series of Touhou.

In my opinion if I was going to transfer all the rights of my said "Series", I would want to give it to someone who I can trust the most, rather than give it to someone who has different plans, and would change it, ultimately ruining Touhou.

[LunarWingCloud]

I wouldn't mind if the guys behind The Last Comer and Mystical Power Plant would take on the series.

But they need to optimize their games better first. >.>

I remember seeing a comment on a video for ZUN's self-proclaimed theme, and someone said "one day long after ZUN has stopped making Touhou games, someone should make a Touhou game with him as the final boss, and this should play during that fight", or something like that.

Just felt like sharing. :V

[BlueFlameBird]

I wouldn't mind if the guys behind The Last Comer and Mystical Power Plant would take on the series.

But they need to optimize their games better first. >.>

I remember seeing a comment on a video for ZUN's self-proclaimed theme, and someone said "one day long after ZUN has stopped making Touhou games, someone should make a Touhou game with him as the final boss, and this should play during that fight", or something like that.

Just felt like sharing. :V

Saw a bit of game play of those games, and they look pretty fun/great. =D Gotta try them out. That would be amazing, finally getting to fight with the strongest being in all of Gensokyo, the creator himself, ZUN.

I wouldn't really mind if the Touhou series ended on the note of, Reimu or Maribel, waking up. Seeing all those past episodes were nothing but a dream.

[Smokey]

I believe that everyone will spontaneously forget about everything touhou, and every trace of its existence will disappear from the universe. The only thing left will be the meaningless string of numbers that is your scores.

[NekoNekoRex]

Shit, if ZUN isn't even 40, I think the series will taper out before we ever see him die, actually. He may be an alcoholic, but I think he'll run out of ideas before he ever runs out of functioning liver tissue.

There's a new TSA game about every year, right? That's like half a dozen characters every other year or so, factoring in that in-betweens also take like a year to make.

[UTW]

Indeed, unfortunately this is not the U.S of A. I don't know if Japan has similar copyright laws to the US. So like Imosa said, it doesn't necessarily apply to this case. Correct me if I am wrong, but ZUN hasn't copyrighted Touhou has he?

I'm unsure if it officially is copyright to ZUN/Team Shanghai Alice, but it is stated in his Terms of Use that all Touhou content belongs to his circle.

I would reckon to guess that whoever wanted to continue making Touhou Games would likely need to head the circle in ZUN's stead.

Yes, Touhou is copyright to ZUN/TSA/his legal company thing, Kourindou Inc. Or trademarked. I forget the difference between the two. In any case it would be foolish if he didn't. It's both common sense, especially because of how huge Touhou is, and because he does business through it. If he never did, who knows. At a guess anyone else he's entered into business with like Tasofro or his print publishers would have claim to Touhou, but I'm clearly no lawyer so I can't say for sure.

In fact he ran into trouble with this a couple years ago. Basically, while he apparently copyrighted the official variation of the word "Touhou" that we all know, some copyright troll did the same with an unofficial variation of it. In short he didn't copyright all forms of Touhou and got one of them stolen out from under him. Although granted it was a version of it he never used.

Here's the thread on what happened there.

[Clarste]

You're confusing copyright with trademark.

[Tengukami]

Shit, if ZUN isn't even 40, I think the series will taper out before we ever see him die, actually. He may be an alcoholic, but I think he'll run out of ideas before he ever runs out of functioning liver tissue.

Whatever your intentions with this quip, this is a baseless and ageist thing to say. ZUN's age has nothing to do with his capacity to come up with new ideas. As someone who's already past 40, I can attest this is true, and there are numerous examples throughout art history to back me up here.

Maybe you were being ironic r something, but I felt it needed pointing out.

[NekoNekoRex]

Whatever your intentions with this quip, this is a baseless and ageist thing to say. ZUN's age has nothing to do with his capacity to come up with new ideas. As someone who's already past 40, I can attest this is true, and there are numerous examples throughout art history to back me up here.

Maybe you were being ironic r something, but I felt it needed pointing out.

I meant more in the sense that he's likely to live another 40-50 years. If he makes Touhou games at the same pace he's been making them, he'll be left with a simply massive library by the time he's done. I'm wondering if anyone could keep a series like that up that long, with Touhou's penchant for having Loads and Loads of Characters as-is.

I'd be like with Inafune and Megaman. Could Inafune, assuming he had kept going with Megaman until he died, come up with 8 new robot masters in every game? People were already complaining 'he was running out of ideas', after all.

[Tengukami]

I meant more in the sense that he's likely to live another 40-50 years. If he makes Touhou games at the same pace he's been making them, he'll be left with a simply massive library by the time he's done. I'm wondering if anyone could keep a series like that up that long, with Touhou's penchant for having Loads and Loads of Characters as-is.

Well, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of him running out of ideas any time soon. But in any event, it's a completely separate (and speculative) subject than OP's question.

[BlueFlameBird]

Well, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of him running out of ideas any time soon. But in any event, it's a completely separate (and speculative) subject than OP's question.

Indeed, ZUN will never run out of any ideas!

Though if he indeed does start to run out of ideas, I just hope he doesn't get any ideas from Touhou CtC for his last game..... The plot/story for that game didn't make any sense.