Author Topic: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer  (Read 195611 times)

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #480 on: November 28, 2014, 08:45:40 PM »
So basically when Mokou and Kaguya drank the Hourai Elixir they:

1- Cannot age
2- Cannot become ill
3- Become Immortal 

But as soon as they have the 3rd taste ( which grants Immortality ) they also, basically seal their child's fate ( if the Immortality inherits ) because the child would't be able to develop meaning:

1- The child wouldn't be able to neither speak or walk
2- Would outright rely on their parent's to survive

All this for an eternity ( literally )   
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #481 on: November 28, 2014, 10:10:16 PM »
Or if it truely works in that way their body would go back to what it was and they would never get pregnant. Outside things in their body are not originated from them so it would reverse, is my guess.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #482 on: November 28, 2014, 11:31:11 PM »
Actually that would make sense.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #483 on: November 29, 2014, 01:57:26 AM »
With all this talk on it, I've been pondering on immortality when I got hit by this question: if the Hourai Elixir keeps the drinker in the same state, how did the Lunarians manage to minify Kaguya for a considerable amount of time? Granted, she grew at an accelerated rate, but it still took months for her to regain her normal appearance [1]. Is there a canonical explanation or a widely accepted fan theory for this? Or is it a given, because 1) wacky Lunarian tech---with Eirin behind it, no doubt---and 2) fairytale? (Whatever the Lunarians did/used must have been quite potent.)

Also, interesting to note that, in the actual story, the Moon people had her drink from the 'medicine of immortality' [1] when they came to retrieve her.

EDIT: Fixed 'quiet' to 'quite'.

--
[1] http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Kaguya-hime
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 05:36:32 PM by Kaizaki »

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #484 on: November 29, 2014, 03:17:05 AM »
I don't believe she was small in the touhou canon. In the bamboo cutter she was but that's not the same kaguya we know. Also she either gained immortality from her ability or from Eirin, please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember if it was mentioned how she became immortal.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #485 on: November 29, 2014, 03:29:18 AM »
But if all humans have faith that a certain event will occur in a certain date, would that event actually occur [...]

I know this is probably too far-fetched to be true, but self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'll just leave it at that. The rest is up to your interpretation.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #486 on: November 29, 2014, 05:47:36 AM »
I don't believe she was small in the touhou canon. In the bamboo cutter she was but that's not the same kaguya we know. Also she either gained immortality from her ability or from Eirin, please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember if it was mentioned how she became immortal.
She's immortal because she drunk the Hourai Elixir, which was made by Eirin on her orders. Why, exactly, Kaguya asked Eirin to make the elixir is unknown.

And yeah, as far as we know, Touhou's Kaguya wasn't miniaturized when she was exiled from the Moon.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #487 on: November 29, 2014, 05:58:44 AM »
She's immortal because she drunk the Hourai Elixir, which was made by Eirin on her orders. Why, exactly, Kaguya asked Eirin to make the elixir is unknown.

OK just wanted to know, I know a while back we all talked about how Eirin is immortal too but she was only able to make the elixir with the help of kaguyas ability.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #488 on: November 29, 2014, 03:50:55 PM »
Is it okay if I remind about my question?
I was reading about Richter scale  and it got me thinking about how strong Tenshi's earthquake was. It leveled Hakurei shrine and the shrine doesn't look like specially designed against earthquakes, so I think it was between 6 and 8 on Richter scale. I'm not a seismologist and there is no earthquakes where I live, so it may not be even an accurate rough estimate.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #489 on: November 29, 2014, 03:57:01 PM »
Well its seems more like a statement than a question. It could have been anything since Tenshi uses the keystone to do it, it could have been a massive one but contained. Trying to think of it scientifically doesn't really work in Gensokyo since things like magic exists.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #490 on: November 29, 2014, 04:36:52 PM »
I don't believe she was small in the touhou canon. In the bamboo cutter she was but that's not the same kaguya we know. Also she either gained immortality from her ability or from Eirin, please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember if it was mentioned how she became immortal.

She's immortal because she drunk the Hourai Elixir, which was made by Eirin on her orders. Why, exactly, Kaguya asked Eirin to make the elixir is unknown.

And yeah, as far as we know, Touhou's Kaguya wasn't miniaturized when she was exiled from the Moon.

Yeah, Kaguya's reason isn't known at all, but I found some interesting passages in their chapters in Cage in Lunatic Runagate:

"[...] I committed a minor error. That minor error was to give the Hourai Elixir, that is, the elixir of immortality and eternal youth, to Princess Kaguya." [1]

"I think it was the same when I was still in the lunar capital. I became fascinated with Earth due to my boredom [...]." [2]

There doesn't seem to be any definitive Word of ZUN on her reasoning, but if I were to make bold observations based on the above statements, I'd say that:
  • Eirin didn't count on Kaguya drinking the Elixir (if she knew beforehand that the princess would, she never would have made it in the first place).
  • Kaguya's decision to drink it may have been influenced by her curiosity towards Earth (how influenced she was is debatable).

However, it's still unclear if the princess premeditated this, or simply drank the Elixir on a whim. That is, we have two scenarios:
  • She planned this all along, and drank the Elixir when she got hold of it.
  • She never had any intent to drink it in the beginning, but as soon as Eirin gave it to her, well, you know.

(The second one draws an interesting parallel with Mokou's case: both were overcome by 'temptation', so to speak, to consume the Elixir when it was within their reach. The difference is that Mokou was tempted by the thought of immortality, whereas Kaguya's was the opposite: transient Earth life.... But that's not the point of this post. :V)

I suppose what truly happened is a mystery for the ages (well, not to ZUN).

(Now on to the actual question!)



In her chapter, Kaguya herself said that she was tiny when the bamboo cutter found her: "I remember how the old couple that found me were especially careful when they picked me up. It's only natural. I was found inside a glowing bamboo shoot in the forest, too small to be thought of as a human being [...]." [2]

At first, I thought that the thing with the Elixir and her being shrunk was a mild inconsistency on ZUN's part, in order to fit in better with the fairytale. But CiLR was released a good five years [3] after Imperishable Night, and he made a point of mentioning that, so it's highly likely to be deliberate.

On a minor note, there is a weird implication from that quote that Kaguya was aware and conscious when she was stuck in that shoot. (Lunarians, what the h-... ?) Also, I got ninja'd twice. :derp:

EDIT: Added Colticide's quote.

--
[1] http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/First_Chapter
[2] http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/Second_Chapter
[3] http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 04:40:02 PM by Kaizaki »

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #491 on: November 29, 2014, 05:34:02 PM »
Good observation, Kaizaki!

Kaguya's CiLR chapter stays vague on how long she was small, so maybe the "restore to original state" effect of Hourai immortality just took some time to kick in (and it didn't necessary had to be months as per Kaguya-hime legend) and the old couple came just in time before it did. Speaking of which, it makes pretty clear that she was small in size, not in age (it says she could be taken as a youkai, not as a child), so there's another difference with Kaguya-hime.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #492 on: November 29, 2014, 07:06:39 PM »
Oh wow, good catch Kaizaki. I really need to re-read CiLR (or, well, re-read something other than the last section of the last chapter =P).
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #493 on: November 29, 2014, 08:15:31 PM »
I feel really dumb now, I've read her wiki page so many times and no where did it mention she was small. I really need to get around to reading CiLR, I'm really sorry...
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #494 on: November 30, 2014, 03:44:48 AM »
Aww, thanks.  :3

Good observation, Kaizaki!

Kaguya's CiLR chapter stays vague on how long she was small, so maybe the "restore to original state" effect of Hourai immortality just took some time to kick in (and it didn't necessary had to be months as per Kaguya-hime legend) and the old couple came just in time before it did. Speaking of which, it makes pretty clear that she was small in size, not in age (it says she could be taken as a youkai, not as a child), so there's another difference with Kaguya-hime.

You make a very good point on the vagueness of the duration. As for size versus age, there are different versions of the story where Kaguya was mini, a baby, or a mini baby. I never considered other variations aside from her being found as proto-Thumbelina. Thanks for pointing me in this direction. Your explanation makes much sense.

Oh wow, good catch Kaizaki. I really need to re-read CiLR (or, well, re-read something other than the last section of the last chapter =P).

I'm somewhat in the same boat actually. Although in my case, rather than re-reading, I need to read chapters other than the 1st, 2nd, and 4th. :p (Pool party at the SDM!)

I feel really dumb now, I've read her wiki page so many times and no where did it mention she was small. I really need to get around to reading CiLR, I'm really sorry...

It's cool. :) I also checked Touhou Wiki and realised that her article doesn't mention it all.

--
Re: Kaguya's motivation, a forum search for "Cage in Lunatic Runagate" turned up this intriguing topic by cuc!

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #495 on: November 30, 2014, 08:24:02 PM »
Anybody else catch some possible S.T.A.L.K.E.R. references in Labyrinth of Touhou? I haven't completed the game yet, but I've noticed that there are enemies on 16F called bloodsuckers and that the music on 9F sounds very vaguely like a more chill version of the song "Against the Ionized Odds". Here are the two for comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrjECcaUZUo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB6Et0aw6K0

Does anybody else notice or is it just me drawing connections that aren't there?

Colticide

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #496 on: November 30, 2014, 08:37:01 PM »
I hear similarities but they still feel too different. They could have taken inspiration from it too, just me personally I feel they are very different.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #497 on: December 01, 2014, 09:30:03 PM »
Here is another amusing question:

What if Seija succeeded in her plan for a Hierarchy Rearrange  who would be the most affected? And would Seija then like to spin it back to the way it was if the others accepted ( they probably wouldn't ).

Clearly the fairies would be the most respected Youkai in all of Gensokyo. And i think we all know about a certain Gap Youkai and Shrine Maiden who would be quite... affected by it.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:22:06 PM by UnidentifiedPhantasm »
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #498 on: December 02, 2014, 09:32:49 PM »
Much like supernatural phenomena themselves, Touhou characters' backstories just don't hold up under close scrutiny.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #499 on: December 03, 2014, 12:56:36 AM »
Not under real-world standards, anyway. Gensokyo's framework of possibility is a bit broader. But in Seija's case, her aim is (from her profile) "to turn Gensokyo upside-down. She wanted to smash the current, stable Gensokyo where the strong ruled the land, and change it into one where the weak had more value", which she pretty much paraphrases in DDC. The endgame is up for any number of permutations where that would work out, in terms who would be the first and the last. But trying to work that out veers right into power levels and eh.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #500 on: December 04, 2014, 09:38:06 PM »
What kind of keyboard(s) or other instruments does ZUN use to compose the Touhou soundtrack?

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #501 on: December 04, 2014, 10:19:00 PM »
CBX-K2, SD-90, Cubase and a bunch of VSTs... You need the full package (except keyboard) if you want to get that Touhou sound, so don't even bother buying anything if you aren't willing to spend over 2000 dollars.

Note that the CBX-K2 is just a MIDI controller that can't produce sound on its own. These days keyboards with built-in sounds are generally only used for gigs and tours and certain places like small churches. Most video game music is made with VSTs and/or standalone synth modules.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:30:51 PM by Not Bigode »

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #502 on: December 07, 2014, 08:23:36 PM »
What arrange is this? Thanks in advance.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #503 on: December 10, 2014, 02:41:17 AM »
Does anyone have any info on how White names Spoiled Past's Extra is going?  I've seen a bunch of posts on their blog but nothing about the game it seems.  To be quite honest I just wanted to know who the culprit is already!!

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #504 on: December 10, 2014, 04:11:33 AM »
What arrange is this? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #505 on: December 10, 2014, 05:09:17 AM »
Locked Girl, from the album Over the Rainbow by CROW'SCLAW.

I'm amazed by you hearing ability, I could barely make out the bgm.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #506 on: December 10, 2014, 06:03:16 AM »
Right away I recognized that I had heard the arrange before, but I wasn't too sure about the guitarist (thought it was minami at first) and had to check a few circles.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #507 on: December 10, 2014, 02:07:58 PM »
So why is Yorihime and Toyohime so strong compared to the other characters?
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #508 on: December 10, 2014, 02:16:58 PM »
So why is Yorihime and Toyohime so strong compared to the other characters?

Can you clarify what you mean by "strong"? Bearing in mind that power level discussions are forbidden around here.

If you're just talking about their general strength, well, they were written that way would be my guess.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer
« Reply #509 on: December 10, 2014, 02:40:07 PM »
So why is Yorihime and Toyohime so strong compared to the other characters?

It's not explicitly stated why they're so powerful but really, there's like, a ton of possible reasons when you think about it.

They're Lunarians.  Just like how a bear is physically stronger than a deer.

They're old.

They trained a lot of their life. They've spent a lot of their lives getting stronger because being powerful is a requirement for their JOB.  (They've been members of Lunarian's defense corps for millenia, IIRC, and its leaders for a few years too)

They had Eirin as a teacher.

Toyohime gained her own powers when she had an epiphany while learning from Eirin.

Yorihime is backed by  a lot of experience with channelling the power of the gods (millenia of experience compared to say, Reimu.  Or the majority of beings in existance.  Again, they're old).

Toyohime is armed with powerful Lunarian technology (te fan), of which Perfect Memento explicitly points out their weapons far exceed earth's.

etc etc etc