Author Topic: Smash 4 Hype Thread - 3DS is out; WiiU hype train FULL STEAM AHEAD (Read 110939 times)

Suikama · « **Reply #930 on:** November 19, 2014, 11:25:24 PM »

Both of those clips are Shulk though, and Shulk was changed so that he first hit of all his Monado stabs have less knockback/hitstun now

Esoterica · « **Reply #931 on:** November 19, 2014, 11:26:28 PM »

Well it only worked on those types of hits in the first place.

That first one is like, a ~65% dthrow though.

In other major news, vectoring confirmed replaced with Melee/Brawl DI in 1.0.4.

Suikama · « **Reply #932 on:** November 20, 2014, 12:20:15 AM »

Hmm odd I'll test it more

But before that VECTORING IS DEAD

LONG LIVE DI

on the other hand FUCK I HAVE TO RETRAIN MY REFLEXES AGAIN

also time to retest all of my combos

okay combos are pretty much untouched but the biggest change is to actually killing. No more hold down to survive to 180% for free

Good Lord Wii U's Final Destination is fuckin amazing

Mounting Jaggis · « **Reply #933 on:** November 20, 2014, 08:08:44 AM »

I just noticed something with Meta Knight's sword. The hitbox ISN'T half the size of his sword, he just forgot how to use it. Pointy bit goes forward, dummy.

I was testing Meta Knight's hitbox since I haven't seen anyone talk about it after the patch, or I just might have missed it. But I noticed that the problem isn't the sword's hitbox itself. It's the animation, motion trail, and active frames. In that first image, Meta Knight never points his sword forward during his down smash and the motion trail makes it seem longer than it is. He holds the sword sideways until the second swing, so the sword never hits the opponent despite the misleading motion trail. In Brawl, he does an overhead swing and points forward in the first swing.

The motion trail not matching the animation is one of the problems. The other is the active frames. In Meta Knight's down air, his sword will clearly go through an opponent behind him. Turns out, the active frames of the hitbox end the moment his sword is pointing backwards. It will hit no one, no matter how close they are.

For some reason, they made the hitbox be the sword itself rather than the motion trail that's more noticeable. Same goes for his neutral B, when the hitbox is himself rather than the tornado.

Esoterica · « **Reply #934 on:** November 20, 2014, 02:21:06 PM »

Meta Knight's hitboxes are really just a mess of them not matching animations. uair/dair are more like an upward/downward stab in terms of hitbox but they still have the wide arcing slash animations.

While a lot of the motion trails are indeed deceptive too (hi ftilt), if you keep a careful eye on his sword it frequently does no damage at the tip on most of his attacks.

Suikama · « **Reply #935 on:** November 20, 2014, 03:28:41 PM »

Okay so apparently Vectoring is only half gone so now DI is a complete mishmash of crap. What is certain is that holding down no longer lets you survive longer against vertical sending attacks, but that's it. Horizontal attacks are a complete mystery now.

Esoterica · « **Reply #936 on:** November 20, 2014, 04:00:22 PM »

My guess is vectoring is still the thing but vertical influence is gone on vertical attacks because of the stupidly huge effect it had on things (i.e. Dedede nair being survivable to over 150% despite black lightning at 110%ish by holding down during multihit, Pit sideB KOing as stupidly early as ~50% if holding up).

Which I guess I'm probably okay with but VI is a total clusterfuck in how it affects knockback, despite how intuitive the name makes it sound.

Sparrow Song · « **Reply #937 on:** November 20, 2014, 04:51:39 PM »

Saw some Amiibos at work yesterday (I work retail), they look really nice. Very tempted to get at least one of them. Zelda or Palutena...hmmmm.. >_< Cant' decide. No one seems to know if the AI really improves with "levels" or not, though.

Esoterica · « **Reply #938 on:** November 20, 2014, 06:21:42 PM »

Quote from: Sparrow Song on November 20, 2014, 04:51:39 PM

Saw some Amiibos at work yesterday (I work retail), they look really nice.

Quote from: Sparrow Song on November 20, 2014, 04:51:39 PM

Very tempted to get at least one of them. Zelda or Palutena...hmmmm.. >_< Cant' decide. No one seems to know if the AI really improves with "levels" or not, though.

I haven't really had much interest toward Amiibos so I don't have much input here, but my understanding was that their AI learns by what you do and that levels are their own thing (stats based on equipment you fed them or something maybe idk). Most amiibos didn't really catch my eye aside from Dedede's...from the pictures I'm seeing the hair on Zelda's looks kind of lazy, and I...can't actually find any pictures of Palutena's :V

Spotty Len · « **Reply #939 on:** November 20, 2014, 06:35:25 PM »

If I ever buy an Amiibo, I think I might just extract the chip and put it in another figure.

Except if the Captain Falcon Amiibo looks awesome, but eh... not sure about that.

Sparrow Song · « **Reply #940 on:** November 20, 2014, 06:36:02 PM »

@Esoterica: HA, well the ones I saw (Pikachu and Mario) looked REALLY good. That one you linked looks pretty awful though.. ^^; I heard that only the "first edition" Amiibos will look good, then the ones after will be the more lazy/ugly ones you mentioned.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-04-hands-on-with-nintendos-final-amiibo-designs

Also they will get cheaper if Nintendo takes the "card" route they are talking about.

http://www.joystiq.com/2014/11/06/nintendo-discusses-cheaper-amiibo-figures-trading-cards/

Esoterica · « **Reply #941 on:** November 20, 2014, 07:39:11 PM »

I think we all expected it anyway but finally confirmed that Mewtwo will be available as paid DLC as well.

Suikama · « **Reply #942 on:** November 20, 2014, 09:36:39 PM »

oh yeah turns out Rosalina actually got a shitton of nerfs

Dtilt nerfed
Fsmash weaker
Usmash weaker
Nair gutted in almost every way
Fair weaker
F/B throws weaker
And of course her Luma nerfs

Comparatively Shiek just got 3 nerfs: Fair damage, Uair knockback, and Bouncing fish knockback

Basically tl;dr of this patch:

Most character based glitches fixed.
Significantly Nerfed: Rosalina, Greninja, Sheik
Noticeably Nerfed: Little Mac, Dedede, Pacman, Bowser, Lucario
Significantly Buffed: Ike, Shulk, Metaknight
Noticeably Buffed: Ganondorf, Luigi, Pikachu
Other characters got minor adjustments but they aren't really that noticable

Could be some more stuff but it would all be small adjustments to ending lag and stuff like that

Esoterica · « **Reply #943 on:** November 20, 2014, 10:04:25 PM »

Sheik can cheat the Bouncing Fish nerf by using the customs because they weren't nerfed :V

Some of Rosalina's nerfs aren't straight-up nerfs, or are only really relevant solo; Luma's smashes weren't nerfed, just her solo ones. Weaker nair is bad but iirc it can start true combos with dash attack now or something (the hitbox nerfs are real though), and the first hits of fair are stronger so she can land before the last hit and combo into jab (before if she landed during it she'd get punished for it). I still feel like she'll be top 5 material at any rate.

I don't really feel like the Bowsercide nerf was really a big deal either but whatever. I guess he may as well not even have the attack when he could command grab a shield and have the opponent force him to suicide for it...and then make it back to the stage themselves. But I don't get the impression that sideB was really that big of a deal for him anyway.

Also I take back whatever I said before about the Ganondorf nair buff not being significant. Not really sure how the frame data works out on shield but the landing lag difference is a lot more noticeable than I first thought. And that nair is a ton stronger than I thought oh my god

Suikama · « **Reply #944 on:** November 20, 2014, 10:09:06 PM »

It's noticeable since you can't play him the same way as you did before. Other adjustments like small damage changes are far less noticeable in comparison.

I mean bowser that is.

oh there was another japanese tier list last week

Buffs and nerfs seem to be in the right place, but they forgot to nerf Diddy so yeah he's the best now :V

I don't think Zelda is the worst, so that means in the new patch the worst character is probably... Kirby welp

It doesn't help that his customs aren't really good. Funny how they buffed Ike and Ganondorf who also already have good customs.

inb4 for glory is NO ITEMS DIDDY ONLY FINAL DESTINATION

Esoterica · « **Reply #945 on:** November 21, 2014, 03:57:02 AM »

It kind of surprises me that Zeldas aren't complaining about their pivot grab being gutted this patch as well as the loss of roll cancel pivot grabs to do their pivot grab in place. It's a pretty average grab now, and it was definitely one of her cooler perks before particularly with the dthrow>farore combo.

As far as that list goes I think all I really disagree with are how low Sonic, Pac-Man, Marth, Robin, and Shulk are. I don't necessarily agree with some of the other placements (Mario above half the characters he's above, Doc above Falco, etc) but eh.

Suikama · « **Reply #946 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:03:29 AM »

The list is pretty irrelevant now anyways with the new patch, other than MetaDiddy

Although Diddy isn't really that op aside from his dthrow and uair. WHY IS HIS UAIR SO GOOD. WHY CAN I SPAM IT 50 TIMES AND STILL HAVE IT KILL AT 120%.

Side B is pretty annoying too I guess although it MIGHT have been nerfed

Esoterica · « **Reply #947 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:14:20 AM »

I'm not even sure what the not-jab changes are for Diddy lol

scripts are hard

Suikama · « **Reply #948 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:16:25 AM »

I'm guessing it's a reduction of the grab hitbox of his side B because someone did report that earlier

but that's just a guess :derp:

Esoterica · « **Reply #949 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:19:46 AM »

Well that's what I was guessing too but whatever the thing that actually has a modification like that is does 1% damage

I'm almost wondering if it was a decrease to the AoE of his pummel during his command grab but I don't care anywhere near enough to try and test that theory

Suikama · « **Reply #950 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:55:48 AM »

Wii U version is out! (In NA)

_{And I don't have it RIP}

Esoterica · « **Reply #951 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:57:51 AM »

Hooray I get to be the only person still playing 3DS :getdown:

MewMewHeart · « **Reply #952 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:59:00 AM »

Quote from: Esoterica on November 21, 2014, 04:57:51 AM

Hooray I get to be the only person still playing 3DS :getdown:

Not anymore! :matsurismirk:

Gpop · « **Reply #953 on:** November 21, 2014, 05:15:25 AM »

Quote from: Suikama on November 21, 2014, 04:55:48 AM

Wii U version is out! (In NA)

_{And I don't have it RIP}

Don't worry, you can enjoy it with all of us tomorrow :V

You can bask in the glory of HD

Spotty Len · « **Reply #954 on:** November 21, 2014, 06:50:02 AM »

Meanwhile, in Europe...

"This just in! Sadness has taken over the continent. Everything will be officially shit for the next week."

Happy smashing though.

Suikama · « **Reply #955 on:** November 21, 2014, 07:34:44 AM »

Okay so turns out because you can charge smash attacks with the c stick now, it also messes with your momentum if you use it for aerials. You can circumvent this by either just tapping the c stick for 1 frame, or by changing the controls from smash to tilts, but it's still pretty annoying :/

Mеа · « **Reply #956 on:** November 21, 2014, 10:07:27 AM »

Quote from: Suikama on November 21, 2014, 07:34:44 AM

it also messes with your momentum if you use it for aerials.

Wait, but this is like the entire point of the c-stick

Garlyle · « **Reply #957 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:17:57 PM »

Quote from: Spotty Ren on November 21, 2014, 06:50:02 AM

Meanwhile, in Europe...

"This just in! Sadness has taken over the continent. Everything will be officially shit for the next week."

Happy smashing though.

I'm sorry >:

I might not get it for a few days though myself so idk

True story though: I realised technically all you need to play the WiiU is its power cord and the gamepad. You don't even need a TV to hook it up to.

I could bring my WiiU to work and smash all night long on the last couple nights.

Suikama · « **Reply #958 on:** November 21, 2014, 04:20:35 PM »

Quote from: Mea on November 21, 2014, 10:07:27 AM

Wait, but this is like the entire point of the c-stick

Yup

basically the c stick sucks in smash 4 aside from doing actual smashes

maybe it will be standard to just set it to B moves for dem wavebounces (unless that doesn't work either...)

Garlyle · « **Reply #959 on:** November 21, 2014, 05:06:45 PM »

Quote from: Suikama on November 21, 2014, 04:20:35 PM

Yup

basically the c stick sucks in smash 4 aside from doing actual smashes

maybe it will be standard to just set it to B moves for dem wavebounces (unless that doesn't work either...)

I dunno if it was just the 3DS version but I was having a shitload of trouble doing tilts on it, so I'll probably set it to the various tilt moves so I have a way to reliably do them.

Will have to see how it controls once I get my hands on a copy. (Certainly can't download it dat space)