Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER

[Sky_Paladin]

Bard, I guess the main reason I was worried about you is because I felt like you were only refuting points that players had made, and not going the extra step to clear yourself.  I also felt that Shadoweh was doing a more credible job of defending you than you were, which was kind of odd.  I also didn't like your comments about wanting to be mod killed and wanting to get out of the game.  Lastly, I felt that your actions were not consistent.  You checked me on night 3 after town clearing me.  You didn't check me night 4 because of mysterious restrictions, and you didn't check me night 5. 
You kept saying that you couldn't discuss why you could/couldn't track.  Conquer and I both asked you in the previous day phase (Conqueror later retracted it) but I feel like a towny player would have jumped at the chance to try to be useful or to clear there name in some way.  At least, that is what I would have done. 

That's kind of how I do my scum tests.  I think "Given the information here, what would town!me have done?" and I try to find the player who deviates most from that. 

I would have tracked Conqueror last night.  I really expected you to say it.  And I would probably have lynched you for it, because that would mean you only couldn't act once in the whole game, which is kind of a non-existent restriction.  Instead you said about the only thing that I could buy, so, we have a game. 

I'm still not sure because it's a choice between Shadoweh killing her buddy but not killing me to win the game, and the choice of yesterday 'BT vs Bard' which is such a sweet, sweet easy option. 

But you did the right thing so now I have to re-read the whole damn game.  Dammit. 

[Bardiche]

You kept saying that you couldn't discuss why you could/couldn't track.  Conquer and I both asked you in the previous day phase (Conqueror later retracted it) but I feel like a towny player would have jumped at the chance to try to be useful or to clear there name in some way.  At least, that is what I would have done. 

... You would've gotten yourself modkilled in favour of discussing the condition? That doesn't seem townie.

[Bardiche]

I feel like you've been pushing me about the modkill point unfairly. Being frustrated with the game and requesting an out isn't indicative of alignment, it's indicative of being frustrated. I get frustrated because I've got shit outside of Mafia games too, and they're not always happy shit.

I think it IS indicative of alignment that you say a "townie would've done something to get themselves modkilled instead of requesting it"─I feel like you were trying to push me into getting myself modkilled to "prove" how townie I am, precisely by doing so when it's already clear I'm frustrated. That's anti-Town, because Town doesn't benefit from modkills; it takes away control and flips, two things Town wants to retain at all points during the game.

There's no ITP, unless you want to argue the ITP could only kill every night once scum died. I'd buy that argument if no one died N6, but someone died, so there's scum.

hrrng.  So let me get this straight.  One of you are ITP.  And one of you are scum.  But what kind of ITP doesn't make hits...

I don't even how you come up with these gems. Dormio said either lynch non-Town or face unwinnable situation. This means the current situation is winnable. So if we lynch Scum, we win, because IF THERE IS AN ITP, they're not harmful to Town's wincon. If there's a Survivor or something.

Sky!scum would have shot Shadoweh last night because Conq/Bard would have been an easy mislynch of Bard. 

2 - Scum know I want to lynch Bard so I can't see scum!Bard letting me live overnight.  Which means it's probably Shadoweh who assumed I would lynch Bard. 

These are WIFOM. I know the second one argues in my favour, but it's still WIFOM and that's why I'm wary of it.

[Sky_Paladin]

... You would've gotten yourself modkilled in favour of discussing the condition? That doesn't seem townie.

Of course I wouldn't have done such a thing.  I thought you were lying about the modkill if you discussed your track/not track capability.  I actually thought that you were using this reason "I will be modkilled" instead of the reason of "I dont want to give away the information to scum", which should have been your first motive.  Because your first stated reason was to avoid modkill instead of to hide information, I questioned your priorities and thought you were faking about a modkill. 

I think it IS indicative of alignment that you say a "townie would've done something to get themselves modkilled instead of requesting it"

I'll be honest I was pretty pissed with you.  I couldn't believe after how hard I had tried you were saying that.  It was the first time anybody had looked sideways at you and I was "I cannot believe he is throwing the towel in.  Fine, do it!  We think you are scum anyway."  I don't really want anybody modkilled because look how annoying it is.  I missed out vigging Serela for you because of it.  I was totally going to do it, it's in my QT as 'if I ever get to a vigshot like Shadoweh is teasing me, I'm putting it through Serela' and then Serela went pop and THEN I got the vigshot.  WHY.  Does Dormio vapourising him count? 

Anyway, I was angry with you.  I thought you were being a selfish jerk.  And I admit to being frustrated too.  I could see you were really frustrated and angry after hammer but it's not like I can send you *hugs*. 

I don't even how you come up with these gems.

If you ever see the shit we pull over on Megatokyo, you'll understand how.  Bastard role madness doesn't even begin to describe it.  We are talking some serious Event Horizon level of warp chaos.  Time travel mafia with three different town factions that are also all individual scum teams?  Games where players have 9+ actions and some of them have 20 or higher effective attacks and 30+ night lives?  Night actions where you have to spend lives to get addicted to the life-giving potions or die of starvation...  You have to have a special degree of bent to get through that.  Man, I'm just enjoying playing here where I don't have to network and try to infiltrate all the teams at once, and voting is done in public.  Aaaaaah.  It's so great.  I don't have to lie to everyone.  It's such a relief. 

Anyway;

These are WIFOM

It's not WIFOM if I am telling you what I would have done :V

But I digress; let me paraphrase from my QT on the previous night phase ramblings.  AKA more WIFOM. 

***
Who is scum?  Is it...
Bard - I'll be dead.  Bard can't allow a confirmed town Sky that wants him dead to contest LYLO with virtual town Shadoweh.
Shadoweh - Unclear.  She knows I think scum!Bard, so she may choose to keep Bard/Sky for the easy LYLO win.  In which case, Conq will die.  She may choose that confirmed town Sky is too big a risk though. 
Conquer - Reverse. Probably will hit Shadoweh actually because of the same Shadoweh scenario.  However I showed distrust of Conqueror near phase end so I think he would choose confirmed town over not confirmed town. 

So that's about a 4/6 chance of death.  Thats actually better odds than I expected since I thought it was nearer 90%.  Or maybe you know, it's just bargaining before loss :/ :/

***

Basically I can't see any realistic sensible situation where scum would have allowed a confirmed town Sky and a confirmed town Shadoweh to last til Lylo when they could have killed Shadoweh off two night phases ago, and the only reason to not hit her is because they were afraid of your tracker.  In which case they should have hit you (not SB), then Shadoweh.  Because they hit SB when it was tactically demanded and they hit NNR tactically to implicate me, and they hit Hikaru because he was confirmed town to Shadoweh and I.  They were tactical hits.  So they should have tactical hit Bard instead of SB, I think, if they were afraid of the tracker. 

So who is not afraid of the tracker - the one person who was already 'cleared' by the tracker; Shadoweh. 

I mean in what situation do scum ignore the confirmed towns and the town power roles and go for the players in the grey?  lalala one of the 'confirmed town' or 'power roles' is actually not a confirmed town/power role. 

Well let's look at that 'confirmed town'. 

Shadoweh;
I want to evaluate if she was forced to lynch Zak or not.  The main argument against it is that we already thought she was towny enough to vote her Kingy.  She didn't have to lynch her scumbuddy.  She could easily have mislynched Dan. 

Sky:
The main argument is that Sky announced 'Hey I got vig upgrade <3' and then shot Dan.  The main reason I shot Dan thinking scum was because he named CF7 and Zak as scums on day 1 which is a bit of a big coincidence.  I figured the only reason he would actually be so accurate is because he actually knew.  This is kind of the same argument against Shadoweh and myself, interestingly, because we both voted for CF7 and I pushed for a Zak lynch.  Except that Shadoweh hard bussed CF7 whereas I thought he was a mislynch~~ I didn't know for sure.  Did Shadoweh? 
Scum Sky would not have announced I got a bonus vigshot.  I would have killed Bard (because tracker hissss) and Shadoweh (confirmed town watcher hisssssssss).  I would have said I had an upgrade and then the next day say I got doc and had covered SB, so sad. 
The second reason for shooting Dan was because I knew if he was town alive in LYLO or the day-before-LYLO, we were going to lynch him and not have the giant dragged out conversation that we had to have. 

On a related note, Dan actually added Bard to his list of scumpicks on day 1 after being prompted by Conqueror, so he does have that going for him. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Oh right and that whole business with me being a vanilla town on day 2. 

Anyway apparently because I can be upgraded for one night that counts as not vanilla.  Well we can discuss that later~~~

I gave out all the role info I could. I don't have anything that says "If you share this then you and your goldfish will die", otherwise I would totally go "Bard is my PR bro" and we could lynch Shadoweh, feast on her corpse, and live happily ever after in Mother Russia with your stolen sub, you commie bastard.  No, I'm a common or garden variety vanilla town, which is hilarious because in my QT one of the first things I posted was "AHHH THANK GOD VT I CAN HAVE A NICE CALM RELAXING GAME" well that worked out well for me. 

So anyway. 

Let's make a TL;DR

I thought you were scum lying about your role restriction because I didn't believe that it was impossible for you to state if you could/could not track in advance.  And this situation turned out to be true; you posted about it and did not die.  So I will scour through the threads and show where you said this, and if I can't, then you can offer me up a big I told you so. 

Man I need to lay off the coffee.

[Sky_Paladin]

Ah right, here it is. 

Because Scum don't need to know, and Town only needs to know what my results are. Isn't that obvious? Why the hell would I want to tell Scum, "Hey guys, you can do whatever tonight, it's totally cool; I can't use my ability"? What benefit does Town have from knowing whether or not I can Track? It doesn't do anything for you. "But Bard," I hear you say. "We can verify the truth of your words!" Given how inattentive most people are I'm amazed no one can think of what the condition is.

Oh man this crow is fucking delicious om nom nom. 

OK, never mind.  Actually, I'll apologise and you can tell me whatever you want to say. 

Bardiche, I'm sorry I didn't read that post correctly.  It's even worse because I quoted parts of it later.  I completely missed the first sentence and focused straight on the parts of it that I didn't agree with.  I am an idiot who unnecessarily added stress and frustration to your life.  I really am sorry for this screw up. 

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

I did come across this. 

Bard:

You're proposing that Ninja Kill is put in specifically to prevent Shadoweh from seeing who kills her, unless the stars align and a) Sacchi targeted Shadoweh and b) Shadoweh correctly guessed the night kill afterwards and c) Scum actually use the ninja kill there. Shadoweh saying her power is a "General" means no one can inherit so basically the only situation in which a ninja kill would be useful according to your argument is if the above scenario happens and the stars align.

So anyway, look at the time, rocking 1 am again.  On a work night.  Up at 7.  Saaaaa. 

Bard, I'm sinking my case on you for tonight and I'll ISO Shadoweh in the morning.  If you're town, great, let's work this out.  If you're scum I guess you should hammer me overnight or something. 

[Shadoweh]

There is no ITP. >_> It just means if we no-lynch, scum wins. Jesus how do you do this.
I am quickly remembering why Sky being scum would be a monumental trip into insanity. Let's make this simple.

##Vote: Bardiche

Sky, if somehow you're scum and you've been posting those walls please hammer now so I can have my jaw drop repeatedly onto the floor.

[Shadoweh]

No matter which way this goes it ends with me having white-knighted scum in some form. :/ I CAN SEE YOU'RE ONLINE HURRY UP AND FUCKING POST SO I CAN STOP GOING CRAZY OVER WHETHER YOU DID THIS KILL JUST TO SCREW WITH ME SKY.

[Sky_Paladin]

This is me not hammering :/  Sorry.

[Sky_Paladin]

I'm not saying I will never, ever, not vote Bard. It's just, 2 am here.  I didn't stay up so late for so long and have all my friends die just to throw it all away now. 

Sighduck

[Shadoweh]

I feel like I've put town's fate in the hands of a lunatic, and the only reason the lunatic is alive is because both of us saved him. >_> Bard said his track has a condition. I'm guessing 'I can only do itt when I'm not killing people' is the condition there. Alternatively it has a 'can't target scum' for when/if it passes onto Rawr.

Alternatively he lied about it being a track and forgot that he was crumbing Rolecop to me:

Out of these three I'd lynch Dan>Zakeri>Sacchi, but I feel like I should read BT/SB again. Slowly starting to look like everyone is Scum, but I believe in Shadoweh at least. I just can't see her doing anything untoward to people during the night except maybe send angry glares.

Because I can't think why else he would mention me watching him in some way. Sigh. Really shouldn't have lynched BT. I just wanted to believe.

I supose I should actually make the case on Bardiche's gameplay then. It's been quite silly.

[Bardiche]

That wasn't a crumb at all, Shadoweh. What.

[Shadoweh]

Oh, it was just you professing your love and adoration for me while happening to mention how totally innocent I am at night, huh? I'm sure it was suposed to mean nothing. You're only nice to me when you're scum, Bard. The demotivation is pouring off of you, understandably from being in a role madness game where you've probably felt pressured having to unexpectedly fakeclaim since Day 1. Everyone else was trying to figure things out yesterday and you wanted to go play Payday because this is a lost cause to you.

[Bardiche]

It's not even a crumb, you're looking at shit that isn't even there, what the hell.

[Bardiche]

I'm saying the worst you can do is angry glares because you've talked about them in a Mafia game before, christ. I've been nice to you even without being scum. Lots of times. Are you basing a scum case on me being nice to you?

[Bardiche]

In fact, why even would I crumb rol?ec?op after already crumbing Tracker? That doesn't make sense.

[Sky_Paladin]

Make out already

Anyway Bard, I guess that probably means I'm town since otherwise I'd be going hammer gimme back my sub. 

Now I sleep.  Tomorrow I ISO.  Goodnight folks. 

[Bardiche]

And if I "felt pressured" to fakeclaim since Day 1, why the hell would I pick Tracker as a fakeclaim?

Shadoweh are you scum trying to pressure Sky Pal into quickhammering me for you?

I did come across this. 

My line of logic there is that the argument for me being a Tracker is that a Ninja Kill in case stars align is just too stupid to even consider. Don't quote out of context.

[Shadoweh]

I'm still shocked that Conq flipped town after proposing we lynch the Town counterwagon on Day 1. If you'd left him alive there's good odds I would have voted him, you know. >_>
Cut: Bard are you going to pretend you think I'm scum or keep admonishing me? :p Of course I'm not basing it on you being nice to me, that was a joke about how you refuse my proposals every game. I still want to believe Sky just doesn't realize he's won and just needs to hammer to win.

Scum interactions:
Mentions of Bard by CF7: Nope, none here.
Mentions of Bard by Zakeri: Four mentions.

Bard's thing almost looked like a good thing, but I'd hope he'd have let Serela post a little more before revealing that it's obviously not a thing. Still refusing to read Serela after proving how bad I am at it last game.

"Bard's thing sure looked like a thing" <_<

Actually now that I'm not glancing at the thread and instead reading it, I really don't like how Serela ended up using his role because Bard provoked him.

Not really a mention of Bard, he continues on about how Serela is Scummy after all.

Bard and Oarfish are Waltzing with how much they're going in circles around each other. I think it's safe to say that Kingault's poor play is less than half the reason people are voting Oarfish so one of them should probably go ahead and drop that point.

Admonishing without really doing anything about the Oarfish wagon, nat. And the last mention is literally "Hi Bard."

Conclusion: None of what Zak said is alignment indicative of Bard. If he thought the Serela thing was scummy he never seemed to have a scum read on Bard, even after Serela became obvious Town after CF7's lynch. Same with the Oarfish thing. And 'Bard's thing is a thing' is really sad that we let him get away with that. <_<

[Bardiche]

##Vote: Shadoweh

Sky makes an excellent case for him being Town.

Shadoweh, I thought SKy was scummier than you and would have voted him, but given the lack of quickhammer on his side, it's unlikely he's scum then. That leaves you by process of elimination.

>_> Scum Self-Watcher is the most glorious thing ever if you actually trueclaimed, and killing Zak for massive towncred took balls.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh are you scum trying to pressure Sky Pal into quickhammering me for you?

Honey I had all night to do that and waited for you instead. Trust me, I am an expert at giving candy to babies, and rule #1 is not to let the other person post. Are you going to ask me to make sense of your actions now? Tracker or Rolecop, I think you had a good idea that you couldn't just pretend you hadn't done anything.

[Bardiche]

Quickvoting Shadoweh flipped scum in balanced game of mafia, whereas normally Shadoweh in a LYLO situation doesn't try to force  a quick lynch on LYLO I don't think. Unless you have evidence otherwise but I'm p. sure you're not normally so impulsive, and with Sky Pal talking of lynching me this truly could have been a good attempt to just push the lynch through before he changes his mind through reading and reasoning.

[Bardiche]

Kill on Sacchi makes sense now, too; with Shadoweh already knowing what she gets on being powered up and deeming it not useful enough, obviously she'd prevent Town from being powered up further.

[Shadoweh]

LOL The other person was confirmed town that game, of course I quickvoted the other person. This isn't even impulsive, quickvoting would have been 'oh Sky Paladin you are so handsome and your posts convinced me seven hours ago, let's kill Bardiche for Justice!!!!' Buuuut, if you're really going to question my belief in Vote up or Shut up..

I DON'T ALWAYS GET TO LIVE TO LYLO
BUT WHEN I DO I LIKE TO MAKE IT REALLY SHORT

Votes make you a cop in LYLO. Besides, Sky is just trying to hard to ever be scum. As opposed to your start of trying to lynch Serela just because and sinking into a deep depression the likes of all humanity could not pull you out of.

I'm p sure you killed Sacchi because he was obvtown, btw. I didn't read to see if he was suspicious of you.

[Shadoweh]

...Oh shit it's like a half hour later then I'm suposed to leave BYE

[Bardiche]

As opposed to your start of trying to lynch Serela just because and sinking into a deep depression the likes of all humanity could not pull you out of.

I didn't sink into depression until everyone was all, "LET'S LYNCH THE TRACKER". You pretend my depression is game-related when it isn't. I KNOW WE LIKE MAKING SHIT ARGUMENTS, but that one is the most shit yet. Next you'll tell me I'm emotionally unstable because ~Mafia~ instead of ANYTHING that could have happened/be happening outside of it.

Seriously, leave my depression out of it. It has nothing to do with the game.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
Bardiche (1): Shadoweh
Shadoweh (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (0):

Not voting: Sky Paladin

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

You have ~59 hours remaining

[Shadoweh]

Geez, I'm sorry. It's not like I know what's going on outside the mafia and you haven't mentioned anything before.
You're still scum though. You're getting mad at me for saying you're scum For The Wrong Reasons. If you really thought I was scum you probably wouldn't be getting mad at me, knowing I was doing my best to fling crap at you so I could win. I do genuinely think as scum people get affected by IRL excuses to not post in the mafia more. As Town it's a good distraction to throw your mind into. As Scum the apathy just makes a person want to lay down and sleep until the game is over.

[Bardiche]

I always get mad at Scum for making shit cases. Your later part of arguments is a Personality Thing. I've posted by far the most in this game, how can you accuse me of being apathetic.

[Shadoweh]

I'm not going to check if that's true, but I suspect it isn't. Activity is one thing this game hasn't been lacking in on all sides.
Maybe apathetic is the wrong word. I know you've done some pretty angry things as town, but I don't really believe you as Town would have been so upset yesterday at the prospect of being lynched. For Scum it was a game over out of your control, headed into a next day with literally nothing but people who want to lynch you.

This situation is an act of desperation. Leaving the two 'towniest' people alive in the hopes that they'll have a bout of temporary insanity because quote unquote no one ever leaves the townie people alive, making them suspect each other. I don't remember the term for it anymore but it's the same reason why I claimed the craziest results in Urist Fortress, to make people think they're so crazy they might be true. All it takes is looking over this game and the state we were left in to know it looks nothing like my scumgame. I'd say I'd have taken Conq to LYLO over Sky Paladin, but if I were Actually Scum (tm) Conq would have died 5 days ago.

I'm really just killing time until Sky P wakes back up. And trying to cockblock your admittedly potent AtE of the same flavor that made me never want to lynch you ever.