Author Topic: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all  (Read 182190 times)

commandercool

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #330 on: January 29, 2015, 04:08:12 AM »
Are fangame questions fair play in this thread? I can start a new thread if we want to keep this one main series only.

Anyway, in Shoot Shoot Nitori does anyone know how to get Keine to drop a unique item (like Suwako's hat, Flan's robot, etc)? I'm assuming she has one because every other boss does and there seems to be a slot in the item room for her to have one, but the usual tactic of "hang out really close to the boss when they're about to explode" has yet to yield one. Is there something special you have to do to get it, or does she just not have anything?
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #331 on: January 29, 2015, 10:30:40 AM »
Also it's not actually double bombs-- MarisaA takes 12 power items per bomb while others take 20. The bombs are also pretty much only for the brief invulnerability, with almost no pattern clearing (though if used at close range they actually deal significant damage-- you'd have to plan ahead to use them like that though).

I meant actual stocking - like, with other characters you can only stock 4 tries, but with her you can stock 8.
And yeah, I would personally take 8 brief moments of invincibility over 4 long ones, but I guess that's just my play style :P
(And you actually deal quite a bit of damage if you bomb and no-focus shoot at the same time, but I can see how that can be difficult to use efficiently as well)
Lunatic 1cc: 6, 7, 10, and 11 with All Shots; 8 with All Teams & Both Routes; 12, 13, 14
Extra Modes Clear (All Shots): 6 (0-3), 7, 8 (0-3), 10, 11, 12, 13, 14
Other: 9.5 & 12.5 All Clear; Have tried 7.5, 9, 12.8, and a few fan games
Currently working on: Maybe I'll try IN solos or something
Score? Survival? Who cares - it's bullet-dodging catharsis, and I didn't even continue~!! *dances*

Sakurei

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #332 on: January 29, 2015, 11:52:48 AM »
Yuyuko is a lot about memorization and strategies and less about dodging. Watch a replay and learn how to approach every pattern. Some of them can be handled in exactly the same way every time.

Koog

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #333 on: February 03, 2015, 08:56:31 AM »
I need help with Raiko 3rd and 5th spells. Especially the third. That eats all the lives I get with MarisaB.
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Cream Soda

  • stage 2 boss
Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #334 on: February 03, 2015, 11:02:49 PM »
The method I like to use for "Three Strikes at Midnight" is to get in front of Raiko, move to the side when the drum in the middle fires, get on top of its bullets and still stay under Raiko, and then when the third wave of bullets comes (two of the drums will fire horizontally), move downward , dodging through the previous wave of bullets. If you remain under Raiko, you should finish the spell before you have to dodge again.

For "Den-Den Daiko," I like to stay at the bottom, directly under Raiko, and dodge the curvy lasers vertically, which I believe is safer than doing it horizontally. The yellow bullets move slowly enough that you can adjust your position slightly to avoid them.

You're using MarisaB so even if you lose 8 lives on the same spell, you can get them back almost as fast~!

Ozzter

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #335 on: February 06, 2015, 07:48:14 AM »
I'm having a bit of trouble while practicing stage 3 of DDC, hard difficulty. For the most part, I can get through most of the stage and Kagerou's spells, but her midboss spell and second boss spell keep draining all my lives. When I spell practiced them, I only capture them on what seems like luck. I can't seem to find a pattern, but I'm assuming it isn't as random as it seems?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 10:51:50 AM by Ozzter »
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #336 on: February 13, 2015, 10:46:23 PM »
Any advice on how to improve precision ? (that is, accurate character control)
I'm kind of tired of randomly flying into bullets during patterns I can read.
I've tried practicing fast random patterns (mostly VoWG, and stuff in PoFV) and setting games' speed to 90fps a bit, but it didn't seem to help.

(I hope this question has its place in this topic, even though it's very general...)

Sakurei

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #337 on: February 14, 2015, 07:01:55 AM »
The logical approach would be to practice attacks that require precision movement. There is, however, more than one type of precision I find. There's things like Hourai Jewel or Honest Man's Death which require you to just tap at proper (very small) length consistently. On the other hand, there are attacks that require precision with unfocused movement and stopping at the right place such as Xu-fu. Then there is precision with circular movement like Imperishable Shooting. There are obviously also attacks with more than one of those. Ex-Keine's second spell card for example requires very precise movement circularly as well as proper tap movement lengths, if you want to do it well.

Basically, supergrazing requires character control and if you want to improve your precision, learning some would help, probably. There are of course other things that require character control to be done properly, such as cancels in Imperishable Night or some positioning in games like SA and EoSD. However, nothing will be a guaranteed improvement. Skill often doesn't transfer, not to mention character speeds are different between the games, unless you play Reimu/Marisa in every game. There is also the thing that even if you can do the grazing, it doesn't mean you're doing them well, which again would not help much; but doing them well requires time and practice that may not be worth the time you are investing.
I'm inclined to say that as your goals become more difficult and reach higher levels, your precision will improve naturally and trying to force the issue might just distract you from practicing other things just as important that you are not good at yet. But if you do want to try the grazing bullshit I'm spouting here, then PCB and IN are probably the best games for that. A lot of variety in those two.

PS: setting games to 90 fps isn't helping because the character also moves 50% faster, so when you go back you still don't really move the way you want.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #338 on: February 15, 2015, 03:57:04 PM »
Thanks for the reply, Sakurei.
The 90fps stuff was mainly because I remember someone (Naut maybe ?) advocating this was a really good way to improve lots of "transferable skills", but I'm still not sure what to make of it.

I'm inclined to say that as your goals become more difficult and reach higher levels, your precision will improve naturally and trying to force the issue might just distract you from practicing other things just as important that you are not good at yet.
I guess you're right about this ; just playing games as usual might be the best way to do it.
I don't find supergrazing motivating, since I usually don't care about scoring, but there are some good ideas about which attacks to practice, so thanks for that.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #339 on: February 16, 2015, 12:56:59 AM »
The 90fps stuff was mainly because I remember someone (Naut maybe ?) advocating this was a really good way to improve lots of "transferable skills", but I'm still not sure what to make of it.

Playing at 90 fps is similar to practicing on Lunatic or Hard with the intent of beating the game on a lower difficulty, it's a brute force way to improve your reaction times and bullet reading skills, and it also helps you stop panic bombing. These are all skills that will make you better at shmups in general, not just Touhou.

As for you accuracy issues, it's possible that your monitor is a bit laggy.

Mr Jovial

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #340 on: February 23, 2015, 07:36:57 PM »
Any tips for "Vengeful Cat Spirit's Erratic Step"? I can end it fast enough to only need to dodge one wave but I can't seem to survive it for that one wave very often (my capture rate is roughly 1/10 and most captures are due to extreme luck where I just happen to dodge stuff unintentionally). If it matters, I'm using Marisa A and I'm practicing with the boss rush patch.

ふねん1

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #341 on: February 23, 2015, 10:55:44 PM »
I don't think there's too much to Catwalk beyond the dodging you mentioned. I think what helps make it so tough is that because the bullets come from multiple directions, each set may end up keeping your attention long enough to prevent you from reading the next set of bullets before they're right on top of you. While I need to spend more time with the attack myself to see if this would work (I haven't played it in a long time), my main advice would be to keep your vision as wide as possible so you don't get caught by surprise. Back when I was going for a full perfect run of the stage, I had managed to get my capture rate up to about 1/3, getting more used to it with all the retries I had to do lol. You're definitely capable of doing the same, just keep at it, and best of luck.
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Ozzter

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #342 on: February 25, 2015, 07:19:05 AM »
So I'm working towards a 1cc of SA on normal, and the one attack that keeps draining my lives before Utsuho is Orin's "Mountain of a Former Hell" spellcard ( I think that's what it was called? The second to last one ). My main problem is that I find it really hard to predict where the circles of spirits are headed, and get hit by those all the time. Am I missing something, or do I just need to work on my reaction?
Gah, darn Orin. Finally nearly no-deathed the stage and boss, but then this spellcard comes up. 
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LunaWillow

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #343 on: February 25, 2015, 09:01:03 AM »
So I'm working towards a 1cc of SA on normal, and the one attack that keeps draining my lives before Utsuho is Orin's "Mountain of a Former Hell" spellcard ( I think that's what it was called? The second to last one ). My main problem is that I find it really hard to predict where the circles of spirits are headed, and get hit by those all the time. Am I missing something, or do I just need to work on my reaction?
Gah, darn Orin. Finally nearly no-deathed the stage and boss, but then this spellcard comes up. 
I think spirit circles are static. I dodge them by going repeatedly into two spots. First, I dodge the ones that come in your way, then I head back were the first circle was. Repeat until spellcard is finished. And don't get killed by purple bullets :V
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS
Hard 1cc: PoFV
Extra Clear: PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF
Other Stuff: ISC all clear

Aeteas

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #344 on: February 25, 2015, 09:32:33 AM »
I think spirit circles are static. I dodge them by going repeatedly into two spots. First, I dodge the ones that come in your way, then I head back were the first circle was. Repeat until spellcard is finished. And don't get killed by purple bullets :V

They're actually aimed directly at you. They don't seem like it because they're slow, so you've probably moved away a bit by the time they reach you. The method you mentioned seems more or less correct though.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #345 on: February 25, 2015, 10:18:51 AM »
The ghost wheels aren't quite aimed directly at you--they're actually aimed slightly to your right. They're also aimed when you hear the sound, which might be a bit earlier than you expect, so that could also throw you off.

In a way, the attack is not unlike Utsuho's first spell in that you have to micrododge through dense clouds of small stuff as you work your way around large aimed stuff. Just keep in mind that it's harder to move right than it is to move left and plan accordingly.

Aeteas

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #346 on: February 25, 2015, 02:44:23 PM »
I just did some testing, and you're correct that it goes a bit to the right. I think the angle is calculated so that if the ghost wheels came from the center of Orin, they would be aimed directly at you. But they actually spawn from Orin's hand, which is to the upper right, so the wheels end up a bit to the right. In practice, given the size of the wheels and all the other things you have to dodge, it's about the same as if they were aimed slightly to the right of you.

I assume I didn't notice this before because I haven't practiced ghost wheels much on any difficulty. I just bomb it.  :V

Ozzter

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #347 on: February 25, 2015, 03:00:02 PM »
Ah, I think I'm moving a bit much then between each wave. Thanks for the help!
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Karisa

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #348 on: February 26, 2015, 04:36:36 PM »
I assume I didn't notice this before because I haven't practiced ghost wheels much on any difficulty. I just bomb it.  :V
On Easy they're actually aimed around you, so you can just ignore them entirely.

...granted, I bomb them all the time on Easy since it's worth so much to spawnpoint-graze all four at once. (Strangely, only their edges are grazeable, not their center.)

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #349 on: March 01, 2015, 10:42:21 PM »
Does anybody know the requirements to unlock Unseen Area 3 for practice in Phantasmagoria Trues? The wiki says just to reach it in both Standard and Advanced, but that doesn't seem to have worked.

alternatively is there a straightforward way to force-unlock it

Koog

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #350 on: March 06, 2015, 10:27:30 PM »
I need help against Sakuya and Remilia in EoSD.
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LunaWillow

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #351 on: March 06, 2015, 10:51:51 PM »
I need help against Sakuya and Remilia in EoSD.
Are there any specific spellcards/nonspells you have problem with? Or just battles as a whole?
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS
Hard 1cc: PoFV
Extra Clear: PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF
Other Stuff: ISC all clear

Koog

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #352 on: March 07, 2015, 05:27:06 AM »
Are there any specific spellcards/nonspells you have problem with? Or just battles as a whole?
Everything troubles me sometimes. Except Sakuya's final spellcard. Pretty easy to capture.
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LunaWillow

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #353 on: March 07, 2015, 09:06:29 AM »
Sakuya's spellcards aren't all that hard. Especially her first one, in which knives are mostly aimed at you. Dodge a little to the right/left, wait for next set of knives, repeat until she dies. Her second one is probably her hardest, as now knives fly all over the place. I don't have any tips sadly, because I usually bomb it. Her nonspells are all about bullets reflecting from walls. Not too hard if you can read them properly. Her midboss nonspells however can easily wall you, especially one from stage 6 as kunai's move much faster and I don't think it's possible to go between them. Eternal Meek is just random spam. Nothing much to say about it.

As for Remilia, her opener isn't too hard. Move into gaps and watch out for bubbles. Bullets have weird hitboxes in this game. Her first spellcard is her easiest. Gaps between lasers are very big and bullets move slowly so you shouldn't have problems with it. Her second nonspell can catch you of guard. Bullets are very fast and spread a little bit. Always be ready to bomb. "Scarlet Netherworld" can be troublesome. There's one thing that makes it easier - if you dodged one set of crisscrossing bullets you dodged them all. Always remember it, don't panic, prepare to bomb. Nothing much to her next nonspell, other than that it prevent you from collecting point items and thus getting full power if you died. Nonspell itself is just line of knives that can be easily dodged. "Curse of Vlad Tepes" for some reason always gets me. Best way to do it is to stay at the bottom of the screen and dodge what comes in your way. Next nonspell is set of three repeating patterns and Remilia cannot be hit when attacking. Random flying rice-like bullets, aimed bullets, aimed fireballs. Only rice is dangerous and can catch you of guard. "Scarlet Shot" is her second nonspell all over again, but this time the pattern is a little bit diffrent. Every shot is aimed at you. I don't have to much to say, I always bomb it. And finally, "Red Magic". It's similar to Curse of Vlad Tepes, but throws bubbles that bounce off the walls . Stay near the middle of the screen and dodge what comes in your way. Be prepared to bomb.

I hope my advices will help you.
Normal 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS
Hard 1cc: PoFV
Extra Clear: PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF
Other Stuff: ISC all clear

Cream Soda

  • stage 2 boss
Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #354 on: March 07, 2015, 02:29:28 PM »
Her second one is probably her hardest, as now knives fly all over the place. I don't have any tips sadly, because I usually bomb it.
Assuming this is the second boss spell: get close to her (not too close) and misdirect to the side before the time freeze. Then move down and out of the way. For the first boss spell, it's probably best to stay near the bottom and make horizontal dodges. The last one, you can avoid on Normal by waiting for the time freeze a small distance away from her and going right and then above the knives. On higher difficulties, you just have to dodge while trying to stay between the seams in the knife wall.
Quote
Eternal Meek is just random spam. Nothing much to say about it.
If you're feeling brave, you can learn a safespot on Sakuya's right side, right next to her.

Koog

  • I live to protect those dear to me,
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #355 on: March 16, 2015, 10:38:37 PM »
Alright thanks for the tips. I keep having problems with Scarlet Shoot and Scarlet Netherworld... and Patchouli's nonspells...
Mwahahahahha!

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #356 on: March 16, 2015, 11:27:54 PM »
Alright thanks for the tips. I keep having problems with Scarlet Shoot and Scarlet Netherworld... and Patchouli's nonspells...
Patchouli's nonspell is weird, but there's a trick to it. Note how the second set of lasers will push you to the right/left side of the screen? Stay on that side of the screen. When the second set of lasers reappears, let the lasers "push" you to the other side. Stay on that side of the screen, rinse and repeat.
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
Normal 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS, CtC.
Extra 1CC: EoSD, PCB+Phantasm, IN, PoFV (K&S), MoF, SA, TD, HSiFS, CtC+Phantasm.
Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, TD, CtC.
Lunatic 1CC: EoSD

Koog

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #357 on: March 16, 2015, 11:30:22 PM »
Patchouli's nonspell is weird, but there's a trick to it. Note how the second set of lasers will push you to the right/left side of the screen? Stay on that side of the screen. When the second set of lasers reappears, let the lasers "push" you to the other side. Stay on that side of the screen, rinse and repeat.
I just beat the game with MarisaA (it seems I'm pretty good with Marisa and terrible with Reimu...)
I'll try this later with Reimu.
Mwahahahahha!

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #358 on: April 04, 2015, 03:59:26 PM »
Update for other PT players: from a review of the code, it looks like reaching an area's *boss* in each mode it's available in unlocks the area for practice. It's neither sufficient to simply reach the stage, nor is it necessary to actually beat the boss.

Also, the game's menu code is easily modified to allow any stage to be practiced.

superkawaii☆pandora-chan♥

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #359 on: April 05, 2015, 03:18:16 AM »
I'm playing MoF right now and I'm having trouble of consistently go through this part  :ohdear: Sometimes I get through unscathed, other times I got hit. So can anyone help me with this  ???
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 03:27:35 AM by crazymarisafan101 »