Author Topic: Omerta - Town of Mafia (Game over Scum wins)  (Read 58058 times)

Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #660 on: March 06, 2014, 04:27:21 AM »
i stopped reading after page 1 and still figured out nnr was scum :>

Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #661 on: March 06, 2014, 04:31:01 AM »
Also I genuinely do think claiming masons immediately can be pro-town, but it depends on context.

Serela

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #662 on: March 06, 2014, 04:42:49 AM »
Maybe "stop doubleposting when the game is over" should be added to the rule list

But anyway, that time you claimed masons and let me live the entire game as confirmed town, I tried to lose that game for town really, really hard.

But the scum just wouldn't let me. Dormio flubbed his fake PR and Conq cried about how it's just not fair when town asks him why he isn't dead yet. <3 Cute.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #663 on: March 06, 2014, 04:43:46 AM »
Wow, yeah.  I was feeling really bad at the end of this game but looking back I was pretty accurate at first and then doubted it and moved away. 

Ahhh.  Well, I still screwed up but I feel like I learned a lot from this game. 

Don Grigio, thank you for running the game.  The flavor text was really fun, and the nicknames characterful and clever :D 
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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #664 on: March 06, 2014, 04:47:08 AM »
generally I feel like outing masons early minimizes the potential time spent by town misreading or trying to read them which increases productivity from the get-go. in a role madness game like Shadoweh's it also draws the kill away from power roles that can actually actively do anything and adds a layer of Doc (or driver lol sf) WIFOM. it's basically double innocent children

E: Obviously this isn't a global thing, in a game where there's likely a SK or second scumteam it's a bad bad idea to claim masons unless you absolutely have to to (learned from experience). But I definitely don't think it's a bad strategy like Shadoweh/Serela are implying.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 04:50:24 AM by Definitely Prims »

Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #665 on: March 06, 2014, 05:18:04 AM »
I like how Sky voted me and convinced everyone to lynch me based on an 8% chance of "fuck you" :v

Not angry, I actually laughed at that.

It does explain why I was starting to seriously read him as scum near the end of Day 3. Of course I can't claim to be useful because if you ignore the fact that I didn't even bother reading Darkie, My scum list was completely reversed from the truth.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 05:23:55 AM by Randomly a Catkeri »

Sky_Paladin

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #666 on: March 06, 2014, 05:27:11 AM »
I am sorry about that, Zak.

I thought you were scummy enough to check.  Then after I'd already voted ActionDan...and then Serela...there were already a whole bunch of people on you. 

I did consider outing myself to save you.  In the end I decided it wasn't worth the risk, because if you were scummy enough for town to want to lynch...you just might be the godfather. 

In the end I didn't get to make a single useful check in the game, despite wanting to check both Raikaria and Serela most nights.  I might as well have been vanilla town. 
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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #667 on: March 06, 2014, 05:34:07 AM »
I can understand it's frustrating when all of your results either get lynched or flipped with the cop result in tow. Especially since there theoretically shouldn't be much crossover between "Scummy enough to investigate" and "Town enough to get Nightkilled." And while I'm complaining about getting lynched as semi-confirmed town, I feel like the only difference would have just been me half-assing my reads again instead of Whatever it was Dan did. Then again, if you had outted yourself as cop and defended me, I probably would have been more on your side day 4.

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #668 on: March 06, 2014, 05:59:19 AM »
i guess i sucked this game

Don't lynch me.

O4rfish

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #669 on: March 06, 2014, 07:33:06 AM »
So ... Schezo was VT, and fakeclaimed cop just to mess with NNR, and then voted Skypal instead of Raikaria because he didn't know how to add to seven. Meanwhile Dan did nothing that Town benefited from, but at least wasn't actively trying to lose the game.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #670 on: March 06, 2014, 07:35:20 AM »
I don't get why Schezo voted Paladin, as his role represented two letters and Raikaria's was supposedly one letter, which would point to the existence of a SK if true, and it was clear there wasn't any. Raikaria was confirmed scum at that point.

My reads reached an all-time minimum this game.
I kind of promised Vhaltz that from now on I'd scumhunt more even if I think there are alternate explanations to what I point out. I'm too afraid of being wrong. But I'm going to be wrong anyways so it'll be fine!

Regarding the mason claim, personally I didn't want to claim because I thought that neither Oarfish nor I would be killed N1 nor lynched D1 if we put some effort and if we were suspected we could always claim. It kind of worked until Paladin made a case on me too late for me to answer and PX decided to vig me for it, or for some random reason I don't understand, before I could answer. It's not Paladin's fault, of course. It wasn't a good idea not to claim in a setup that could have both vigs and SKs, anyways.
I basically wanted to wait until D2 to claim so that our mason clear would be more powerful to town.

Also guys, if you don't plan on posting and scumhunting why do you join games.

This post doesn't convey my overall impression on the game well because I'm complaining about everything when I actually had lots of fun, both while I was alive and on the graveyard. I wish I had more time to enjoy being masons with Oarfish though.

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #671 on: March 06, 2014, 07:37:28 AM »
So ... Schezo was VT, and fakeclaimed cop just to mess with NNR, and then voted Skypal instead of Raikaria because he didn't know how to add to seven. Meanwhile Dan did nothing that Town benefited from, but at least wasn't actively trying to lose the game.
Pretty much.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #672 on: March 06, 2014, 07:41:50 AM »
schezo caught scum and nnr is just salty because of past games. honestly

Shadoweh

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #673 on: March 06, 2014, 07:48:58 AM »
Well, PX's listed reason for his vig is "Possible Serial Killer" so...
I think Mitsuki just somehow got caught in everyone's head. Even the scum wanted to target her!


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Schezo

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #674 on: March 06, 2014, 07:51:26 AM »
whoops.  It was Raikaria Selerla not Raikaria Sky.

Hmmm. no.  Me claiming cop wasn't to "mess with NNR"  I used my read and got a scum lynched. 

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #675 on: March 06, 2014, 07:55:40 AM »
I feell like we could have made better use of Mason strategy if Mitzi had lived a little longer. As it was, I tried to take advantage of it and will use QT in future.

Dorian, your flavor was fine. Your moderation was also fine, unlike a recent game which also had good flavor.

Schezo: do you know the difference between odd numbers and even numbers? We were all clearing Raikaria based on you being a one-shot cop.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Shadoweh

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #676 on: March 06, 2014, 08:00:44 AM »
As far as the setup speculation and confusion over letters, which a few people complained about. Compare this to an actual role madness game and I think you'll agree this was alot more controlled. I also think the confusion would just be solved by playing the setup more then once. For a first game, it went pretty well! I thought the actual setup would play out a little too vanilla and boring >.> Boy was I mistaken..


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Schezo

  • en-counse
Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #677 on: March 06, 2014, 08:00:57 AM »
What do you want me to say?
"I didn't fuck up because the setup does afhsdfo"
"I can count it's just I voted Sky because fdjsiaop"

Like the game is over

DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #678 on: March 06, 2014, 08:44:22 AM »
Well, its over, I guess I have to apologize for pushing for Zakeri to get lynched, generally giving Dan a hard time and didn't really capitalize on my opportunity to make a giant case on Serela before I died.

That's replacements for you. Bleh. It was pretty suckish honestly considering the (fake) roles had me so locked on the idea that AD and Serela are the scums as soon as Zakeri flipped that I didn't even remember Raikaria existed and is powerlurking. :V
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Raikaria

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #679 on: March 06, 2014, 11:33:11 AM »
whoops.  It was Raikaria Selerla not Raikaria Sky.

Hmmm. no.  Me claiming cop wasn't to "mess with NNR"  I used my read and got a scum lynched.

You fakeclaimed Cop with a Guilty.

At best your 1 in 3 gambit worked. You lucked out and it did.

At worst you got a townie lynched and then  got turboed yourself D3 for a fake cop claim.

What you did was not town and was not playing to the town wincon IMO. If you were wrong, which odds were that you were, you'd have probobly lost the town the game right there and then.

Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see you carded, because that was an incredibly stupid and anti-town thing to do that you just happened to luck out on.

Now, to read the QT's.


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Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #680 on: March 06, 2014, 11:41:22 AM »
lol.

Raikaria

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #681 on: March 06, 2014, 11:42:56 AM »
'First thoughts: Raikaria changed his avatar. Isn't that forbidden? Maybe he was lynched after all.'

No, changing your username is what is forbidden. Also I didn't change my avatar, Birthday threads did.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #682 on: March 06, 2014, 11:43:33 AM »
funny how the people complaining about the cop gambit the most are the people who lost a teammate over it

Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #683 on: March 06, 2014, 11:46:25 AM »
Lol. Props to Serela for playing really well to their town meta, after D1 I barely questioned his alignment, and when I did I always ended up finding better-looking targets.

Most of my #121 is useless in the light of being scum, but I disagree with his response to my last bit.

If you want to tell somebody that they're doing something wrong, wait until postgame, scum are bound to take advantage of it and townies are most likely not going to listen to you while the game is running so it's very rarely going to fix any issues and bring anything good to the game. Specially in the first half of D1, interfering with reaching cases is very likely to return any baits that players came up with to get a read on other players to null status, which only halts/slows down progression out of RVS and through D1 in general.

It is essentially a large amount of non-content that doesn't achieve anything, and just like we've seen this game tolerating that kind of thing when Serela is town is bound to allow him to abuse it to avoid scrutiny when scum.

That aside, DNA and Oarfish did really well this game. And I don't think Schezo's gambit was as bad as people are making it out to be, people who know they can get away with it will fake cop guilties frequently to get people they think are scum lynched, people are more likely going to listen to a cop result than a case. You can't really know if he'd play it off well enough to avoid being turbolynched the next day, too, so you can't assume that he was throwing the game by doing it.

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
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  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #684 on: March 06, 2014, 11:49:42 AM »
funny how the people complaining about the cop gambit the most are the people who lost a teammate over it

I'd be fine is he as a legitimate cop, but the fact remains it was a stab in the dark against a player that there are personal issues with [NNR said he dosen't like Schezo] which had a 2/3 chance of losing the game right there.

Valtz also said this in the graveyard:
'but I feel like some of his posts this game consist of just deliberately throwing dirt on people. '

Also:

There are only three reasons they would hit DNA.
1 - Because he was going to lynch Serela (my money is on this one)
2 - Because they want to confuse us by hitting a weird target.
3 - They thought Raikaria might be a doc and they are trying to dodge it.

3 is specifically what we were going for.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 11:51:56 AM by Raikaria »


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #685 on: March 06, 2014, 11:56:35 AM »
I think the gambit thing was pretty risky but it paid off.  If he was wrong we would have lynched him the next day so that would have hurt because we would be two townies down unnecessarily.  A couple of times I thought about lying and saying I had a scum guilty on Serela but I dismissed it because if I was wrong I would be dead. 

The problem was we assumed that Schezo was a genuine cop, and everything on the last two days revolved around assuming we had MMCVx. 

The loss was partly my fault because I voted early in LYLO.  It's a bad move.  I shouldn't have done it.  It doesn't matter how confident I was.  Serela even said "Are you sure you want to vote before Schezo claims" and I saw it and thought "Yep" so screw me for my arrogance. 

Schezo was bad for not counterclaiming Raikaria on day 3 and simply voted without saying why.  I assumed Raikaria was town because the setup said that, if Schezo was telling the truth, Raikaria was town.  Oarfish, ActionDan, DarkNinjaABC and I all believed it.  It was a doubly unnecessary lynch of Zak. 

Schezo actually voting to lynch me when he was the only person who knew for sure that the scum pool was actually Raikaria 100% + a 50% guess of Serela or ActionDan doesn't make any sense.  Therefore I am assuming he just voted me because he saw me vote in LYLO, but Raikaria voted first so he really should have voted for Raikaria. 

I don't think Schezo was bad overall. The goal of mafia is to get the scums killed in any way you can; and he did get a scum.  While he did exhibit anti-social behavior, I view NNR's meltdown that resulted in him getting probated as more serious.  We can if-this-then-that back and forth.  If I hadn't voted, Schezo would have claimed without pressure and we probably would have lynched Raikaria, and maybe still lost it on the balance of Dan vs Serela the next day.  Then again, Schezo may never have elected to change his claim until the last moment regardless.  We'll never know. 

I'm pretty annoyed at myself because it was an unforced error on my part.  There was no reason to vote except I was impatient and thought the game was about to end. 
My programming et al blog;
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You want more mafia?
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Raikaria

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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #686 on: March 06, 2014, 12:00:19 PM »
I just noticed the nicknames/flavor names are all relevant.

Serela is 'Wafflebaker' :V


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #687 on: March 06, 2014, 12:06:12 PM »
Btw.  That probability argument held.  The 21/128 held over the 1/128 chance :)

Don't lynch me.

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
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Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #688 on: March 06, 2014, 12:09:24 PM »
Yes but I was attempting to discredit your argument and get you mislynched.

Also seeing as this is my 2nd scum game [Not counting Kamen Rider mafia which canceled]; how did I do?


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

DNAbc

  • mafia is suffering
  • but I don't exactly hate that
Re: Omerta - Town of Mafia (day four and LyLo)
« Reply #689 on: March 06, 2014, 01:10:17 PM »
I didn't remember you existed before I died, you are one fine scumbag.

Thank you Vhaltzo.

I never really read deeply in the roles tbh so actually having people recounting stuff helps. I was almost clueless on Schezo's gambit.
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