Author Topic: Omerta - Town of Mafia (Game over Scum wins) (Read 42915 times)

DNAbc · « **Reply #450 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:01:00 PM »

Serela is being too Serela.

Yes I have a very strong gut feeling of him being scum in the regard he seems to be deliberately makimg his sentemces too long to be understood.

I will make a big case tomorrow when I have the energy to digest the celery, consider Serela as my third scum member read atm

DNAbc · « **Reply #451 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:06:09 PM »

On a side note I would very much prefer if Serela can refrain from associating myself with himself in the matter concerning Sky P's case for I feel mocked in the regard that its Serela whose...nevermind

Serela · « **Reply #452 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:16:42 PM »

Quote from: Darkninjaabc on March 02, 2014, 06:01:00 PM

Yes I have a very strong gut feeling of him being scum in the regard he seems to be deliberately makimg his sentemces too long to be understood.

...what?

Almost all the recent posts are purely complaining at SkyPaladin anyway >_>; They aren't even very relevant for anyone else.

O4rfish, Schezo isn't disliking the other cases because he's a hipster, he gave reasons he doesn't agree and just because "they're logical" doesn't mean people have to sheep them. I mean -I- don't agree with them either. Albiet as the day goes on and Dan continues to cruise I feel more meh about him :T

ActionDan · « **Reply #453 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:43:14 PM »

My time scale for this game is not your timescales. Generally speaking. I will however get a good look at rain aria sky and zak today. As in sunday

O4rfish · « **Reply #454 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:58:36 PM »

Quote from: Serela on March 01, 2014, 06:56:36 PM

I have to admit I have some trouble interpreting it too, but... >> I dunno. Most of Raikaria's posts make me go "Well, I suppose I can understand them doing this, but", and having that reaction -so often- makes me concerned.

Serela. Is this your case on Raikaria? Because lemme ask you this question.

Has ActionDan ever done anything in this game that made you think "gee that post is more likely to come from town than scum" at all?

Raikaria · « **Reply #455 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:07:28 PM »

Quote from: Sky_Paladin on March 02, 2014, 02:20:33 PM

Secondary factors: I think Raikaria is either roled town or scum, and I want a claim so that if he claims a role then the real roled towny can counterclaim. I don't need to know what his role is. I just want 'yes I am roled town' or 'no I am vanilla'. So I removed Raikaria from my equation until I get a result.

Oh you actually wanted me to claim if I was crumbing a role or not? I thought you were theorying that I crumbed a role, which I was not willing toi answer either way, to keep the mafia guessing.

Personally, I'd rather keep the mafia guessing. Maybe I am crumbing a role to inform you that I am important. Maybe I am crumbing a role as a decoy to the mafia as a VT so I get shot over someone more important. I do not feel like confirming if I was or was not being truthful about role-crumbing before, but I will confirm that I was [attempting to] crumb.

Raikaria · « **Reply #456 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:08:15 PM »

On another note I just returned to my Uni home and it's a torrential storm which is so bad my mobile's signal has entered 'Airplane Mode'.

Yeah. May or may not be online for a while.

Serela · « **Reply #457 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:08:56 PM »

Quote from: Darkninjaabc on March 02, 2014, 06:06:09 PM

On a side note I would very much prefer if Serela can refrain from associating myself with himself in the matter concerning Sky P's case for I feel mocked in the regard that its Serela whose...nevermind

Serela · « **Reply #458 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:11:39 PM »

Quote from: O4rfish on March 02, 2014, 05:52:53 PM

Serela, what is your case on Raikaria even made of?

Most of Raikaria's posts make me go "Well... I guess that's not -that- bad because of _____, but...", and having that reaction over and over and over is a pretty bad sign IMO. For specific examples you can go review my reread of d1 post, #395

Serela · « **Reply #459 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:16:58 PM »

Oh wow I totally missed O4rfish's last post. This is what I get for seeing the "you were cut by 2 posts" warning when I hit Reply and just using the Topic Summary below the Build-A-Post box to read the thread.

About ActionDan, I thought a decent amount of the analysis he was getting done in his catch-up at the end of D1 was pretty good. But as I admitted before, his attitude at the end of that was kinda meh, I guess >>; I kind of tiptoe around ActionDan because he has a unique playstyle/attitude or however you'd call it. For example, I really don't think I can blame his d3 play as scumplay so far just because... well... that's how Dan works.

Also I had thought we'd been in D3 for like 2 days already but it's actually only been like one and a third. Oh. I guess that makes it a bit less bad since it's more realistic he was just busy, I guess.

O4rfish · « **Reply #460 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:26:20 PM »

Quote from: Serela on March 02, 2014, 07:16:58 PM

About ActionDan, I thought a decent amount of the analysis he was getting done in his catch-up at the end of D1 was pretty good.

Please point that out because I just ISOd him and did not see any of this.

Serela · « **Reply #461 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:34:34 PM »

Quote

by the end of page 3 I think this is the best bet. The expanded case on NNR looks more like an attempt to solidify a shoddy case more than actual scumhunting.

Quote

I can sorta understand where skypal is calling Mitsuki's posts chronic emptiness only because I am wary of her too, but a good example would be cheez who apart from the early NNR case has little else to show.

Well... there's these, but when I reread it again, it feels like I remembered there being more than this and looking again I don't see it... >> <<

plus several townreads etc, (It's easy for scum to give townreads but as long as there's actual scumhunting it's good to have those, you can't turn on them without a good reason or it just makes you look bad)

...I thought there had been more than that. ;_;

ActionDan · « **Reply #462 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:48:15 PM »

quick check: Everyone thinks Serela is town right?

tbh we are 2 mislynches to spare but perhaps getting a few ducks in order is good at this stage. Like the above question. speak now or forever hold your piece

ActionDan · « **Reply #463 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:48:56 PM »

oh wait one mislynch to spare.

Serela · « **Reply #464 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:55:41 PM »

Oh right, SkyPal wanted to know why I think we only have one more PR letter instead of three. Well, we know we (most certainly) have MMVC??? right now.

There was no innocent child, so don't have 3 Ms. Technically another mason pair is possible I guess, in addition to having a B or D, but...
Schezo is a cop. We could have 2 Cs and he could be fullcop hiding so he's less likely to be nightkilled, but if there's more Cs that means either we have a one-shot cop who hasn't claimed their result (I guess if it was a useless result like their target died...) or we have a fullcop apart from Schezo who...
...well I guess it's not that weird that the fullcop apart from a one-shot schezo wouldn't have claimed yet...
...you know what nevermind ;_; I guess my reasons don't hold up as strongly as they did in my head. I still think it's very unlikely that much power is still out there due to there being no evidence of it (unless it was another masonpair which leaves none until death) but I guess I don't actually have strong reasoning for that being the case like I thought I did. Oops. >_>;

cut:Well apparently SkyPaladin thinks that because I haven't been voted by people, I'm very likely to be scum. >_>;

Serela · « **Reply #465 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:56:55 PM »

And we have two more mislynches before lylo, assuming no kills are stopped. If one was, we'd have 3 mislynches.

Serela · « **Reply #466 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:57:40 PM »

Also Darkie -just- started saying he thinks I'm scum because of... me being wordy? Idk

(I wouldn't be restating this if Dan hadn't just asked)

O4rfish · « **Reply #467 on:** March 02, 2014, 08:30:26 PM »

So Serela. The only thing that makes ActionDan seem townish to you is when he attempted to discredit Cheez's case on NNR.
This is part of my case AGAINST him.

Like, I'm not trying to attack you personally (cough Schezo cough), but can you see why this is frustrating to me?

O4rfish · « **Reply #468 on:** March 02, 2014, 08:31:23 PM »

Sorry that cough was supposed to include DNA instead of Schezo.

Serela · « **Reply #469 on:** March 02, 2014, 08:48:12 PM »

Quote from: O4rfish on March 02, 2014, 08:30:26 PM

So Serela. The only thing that makes ActionDan seem townish to you is when he attempted to discredit Cheez's case on NNR.
This is part of my case AGAINST him.

Oh I can imagine why that looks suspicious post-flip

Raikaria · « **Reply #470 on:** March 02, 2014, 09:29:28 PM »

Requesting a sub be prepared in the event of the worst. At this point I am 50/50 on if I can honestly continue with this game and put in enough time.

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #471 on:** March 02, 2014, 10:46:42 PM »

I am removing Schezo/Oarfish/myself/Raikaria from the suspect list because of uncounterclaimed town, confirmed town, I know I'm town, uncounterclaimed town.

Raikaria's claim is as good as Schezo's until somebody decides to counter claim him. That leaves five possible scum players and a finite set of possible scumteams.

NNR + Serela + Zakeri
NNR + Serela + ActionDan
NNR + Serela + DNA
NNR + Zakeri + ActionDan
NNR + Zakeri + DNA
NNR + ActionDan + DNA

The goal at the moment is to find scum teams that make sense, find the common denominator, and lynch that person. Interactions with another player are not conclusive unless they also include interactions with NNR. Note that failing to mention or comment on NNR is also an interaction. Selectively ignoring players is a technique where the scum avoids mentioning/commenting on their buddy, thus making it impossible to prove a direct interaction event. It's much harder to prove that something doesn't exist than it is to prove that something does exist (You just have to find it).

Unfortunately because Schezo made his guilty claim so early, day 2 interactions were soured. Scums knew that the claim was legit and strongly arguing against it was folly, and going along with it probably best.

The goal of interaction analysis is to see if we can rule out some scum teams.
Examples: There's lots of interaction between Dan and Serela, in particular, they both love to town clear each other for no particular reason. There's some interaction between NNR, ActionDan and Serela, specifically, Dan town cleared all of them, and NNR countervoted me when I voted for Serela, and Serela and NNR both made 'r u serious' responses to me and both voted for CF7 mislynch with the same general 'its too hard to read' case. Finally, Serela was the first person to vote NNR after Schezo's claim, after posting 'oh dear' all on it's own.
So the scum team of NNR, Serela and ActionDan is not only plausible, it's also likely. There's plenty of interactions and the first half of day 1 is especially incriminating.

When I consider a scum team with Zak, your options are +Serela and ActionDan, or +Serela and DNA. I always lumped in Zak with Oarfish and Mitsuki for associations so it's kind of odd that they would turn up masons and Zak is *a mystery*.
So let's go through and examine Zak's interactions. We already know that NNR/Serela/Dan had a lot of chats, so I'm mostly interested in what Zak had to say about them, and what NNR/Serela/Dan/DNA have to say about Zak.

Vote for NNR because of dropped vote on ActionDan.
Countervotes Sky because of a vote on DNA.
Quote: "I also ignored Serela because it's too early for him to be scum yet." Main point is dismissal of DNA's case on Raikaria.
Mentions of Dan, NNR, DNA. This post is probably worth exploring in greater depth but I'm just scanning for now.
Quote: "I don't have an argument for Dan's case on Cheez8 but it would help if he provided a link to Cheez's case on NNR so we could at least go back to recheck how the case buildup actually reads rather than just taking his word for it." This, honestly, is the post that seems true to me the most. I can't really consider a case of Zak/NNR/Dan.
Quote: "If Mitsuki does turn out to be scum, I think that clears Me, Oarfish, Raikaria, and suggests that CF7 and Sky may both be town as well. " Not the kind of thing scum would say, since they know that Mitsuki is town.

Well, that was day 1. Day 1 looks okay for Zak. Day 2 looks pretty bad though.

Response to Serela and votes Schezo after cop claim.
Congralates Dan for role speculation.
Openly states that we can't trust the cop result.
Quickahmmer.

Day 3.

Votes for ActionDan. Townclears for Serela, DNA.
Final comments as argument with DNA.

Looking at this in assessment; on his own Zak looks pretty scummy. Early day 1 interactions look scummy. But who is his team? Not DNA, who he debates with and doesn't vote. And not ActionDan, because he defended NNR but is abandoning ActionDan. That leaves only Serela, which there are considerable interactions for.

Therefore, I'm going to exclude the cases with Zak except for this specific one.

NNR + Serela + Zakeri
NNR + Serela + ActionDan
NNR + Serela + DNA
NNR + ActionDan + DNA

Now we are down to four viable cases! And three of them have Serela in it.

Serela · « **Reply #472 on:** March 02, 2014, 10:57:59 PM »

uh you do realize raikaria claimed "Maybe I am a PR and maybe I am not a PR" right

I'unno why you're calling him confirmed town

Schezo · « **Reply #473 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:00:46 PM »

inb4 he claimed for Raikaria

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #474 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:05:45 PM »

OK, let's look at Bardiche/DNA.

Votes Serela for OMGUS.

That's, uh, actually everything of note from Bardiche in the topic. He mostly focused on Raikaria and myself.

Day 2 absent.

Day 3
Let's lynch a Zak.
Dan please post more.
Argues with Zak and then...
Votes for Zak.
More on Zak.
Response to Serela.
Serela is scummy.

That's all folks. Unfortunately that doesn't clear DNA on any cases except for Zak; so simply reinforces that there's no chance of NNR/DNA/Zakeri scum team.

With the way that DNA is shaping up against Serela, I'm also thinking there's no chance of NNR/DNA/Serela.

I'm not going to ISO Serela. Every time I've lynched Serela she's always town. It's so frustrating and cruel.

cut by;

I'm saying that he crumbed a power role and he confirmed it. Therefore unless another towny wants to counterclaim him, it's as good as saying he's town.

Sky_Paladin · « **Reply #475 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:10:58 PM »

So at this point my remaining scumteam picks are:

NNR + Serela + Zakeri
NNR + Serela + ActionDan
NNR + ActionDan + DNA

There's two chances of Serela scum. There's two chances of ActionDan scum. There's one chance of Zakeri scum. And there's one chance of DNA scum.

I think that the team of NNR/ActionDan/DNA seems unlikely because interactions exist but they are very weak.

Therefore, I want to vote Serela as scum in both of my two remaining team picks, without even considering the several posts of nonsense and garbage in day 3.

##unvote
##vote Serela

Serela · « **Reply #476 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:13:37 PM »

SkyPaladin.

Raikaria claimed that he may or may not be a VT or a PR.

He is by no means clear. And a real PR has no reason to counterclaim it. >_>; He didn't really claim anything. I'm not sure if admitting he crumbed a PR is important if he's not actually a PR. Maybe I should find it suspicious if he isn't one? I dunno. We've been over him having an objectionable playstyle already this game and he said "maybe if I'm a VT I wanted scum to NK me over actual PRs!" so whatever :V

But yeah, if you're hunting scum explicitly off of trying to find a whole team that makes sense, passing a not-confirm-town off as confirmed town might mess up your findings >_>

...huh? Bard did more than that D1. You only poked his RVS vote... I'll respond more in a sec I need to go pay attention to boiling pierogies I GOT CUT BUT I MUST PIEROGIE

Serela · « **Reply #477 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:24:26 PM »

Quote

I'm not going to ISO Serela. Every time I've lynched Serela she's always town. It's so frustrating and cruel.

*Giggles*

Quote

without even considering the several posts of nonsense and garbage in day 3.

And what are these garbage posts I made? The posts telling you that goading PRs to claim right now is Bad and that scum bus eachother so you can't just use who voted who to clear people? >_>;

Anyway, I think your Serela vote is garbage. You literally haven't used a single thing about my play to justify me being scum. Not only that, but your team!hunt is flawed because you assume Raikaria is confirmed town for being a PR... which he never said he was. What is the crumb, anyway? I want to see this crumb you think you see from Raikaria.

Take a step back and think about what a theoretical scum!Raikaria would do when a townie starts talking about how they think Raikaria was crumbing a PR day 1. Should they say "Yes, I'm a PR"? No, because why would they? They could get counterclaimed, they could get outed for not being NK'd later as a cool PR, they're not under pressure so they don't need to claim anyway. But if they say "No, I'm a VT" they can't claim a PR either. Raikaria gave you a yes no maybe answer that doesn't say anything about his role or alignment >_> The fact that you're using pure PoE to vote me whilst giving people town passes who don't deserve it is blasphemy.

Serela · « **Reply #478 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:25:53 PM »

(but at the same time skypal has put so much effort in and done a few such incredibly strange things, that it would be very hard for me to see him as scum, so I can't even OMGUS him ;_;)

Serela · « **Reply #479 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:29:22 PM »

you say "Raikaria isn't counterclaimed so he's town" but I mean dear god what is supposed to be counterclaimed when he explicitly didn't claim anything and only admitted that he wanted to look like he was crumbing something

If I was a PR and counterclaimed that and Raikaria said "oh sorry I'm VT" I'd feel pretty dumb. And then if Raikaria was scum he'd both have a free pass (he made it clear he wasn't claiming a PR) and a PR would be outed for him to nk. Not that anyone would ever counterclaim that, because there's really nothing to counterclaim there, just as this example shows.