Aww, that was really heart warming to see you guys make up like that.
I think the discussion about the false dichotomy of Casual/Hardcore and Danmaku!!'s place on the depth/complexity spectrum IS important, and I'd like to have that discussion once I've processed the thoughts of friends & acquaintances on the matter.
For the moment I want to post something more trite that I gave my word to provide, and that's a tier listing of the unstable version of Danmaku on Steam. I would like to start that this is entirely my opinion from hosting this version twice weekly for a couple of months now, and while I may have some experience with gaming (Touhou, MtG, excetra) I am by no mean an expert on the matter, nor am I the perceptive of it of people I know, BUT I feel like some good can come of this experience and so I present to you: dem teirs.
A forward, I'm going to reference concepts such as 'card advantage' and virtual 'cards' while I can't really do those concepts justice myself, there is plenty or reading material out there on the subject (for example:
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/lo/286)
You can find the character images here: (
http://i.imgur.com/jebVhkk.jpg)
Tier 0, Insane (Extremely Powerful): Eirin Yagokoro
Tier 1, VERY Good (Powerful abilities that can get even better): Reimu, Reisen, Remilia, Sakuya, Youmu
Tier 2 (Solid, get a lot more powerful with luck): Alice, Keine, Patchouli, Tenshi, Satori
Tier 2.5 (Oddballs): Aya, Meiling
Tier 3 (Luck Dependent): Byakuren, Cirno, Marisa, Nitori, Sanae, Yukari,
Tier 4 (Weak, very situational abilities and/or lack of synergy between abilities): Futo, Suika, Yuuka
Tier 5 (Does very little): Miko, Utsuho
Eirin: While her passive isn't all that impressive, her Spell Card's ability to turn 4 cards into 7 is card advantage alchemy bordering madness, coupled with an ally and you've got a duo that can easily face 3 opponents. [That's Spiritual Attack/Bomb + 3 random cards -> 1 Shoot (the attack) + 3 Life (each takes 1 card from an opponent to remove & nets you a card from swing draw)]
Reimu: Her passive allows you to get damage through very easily, add a power or stopwatch and you have some nasty damage output that put players down quick when you want to. Add on a Spell Card that gives you control over what you're most afraid of (Shoots, Bombs, 1-Ups, & Tempest are all solid options, Graze doesn't help you as much, but can allow an ally next in turn order to finish one or 2 players off), and you've got yourself a powerhouse.
Reisen: Her passive can often generate a free 'card' which is really nice. Her Spell Card is a huge turn around, (If you consider the average spell card to be 3 'cards', then a successful copy is deny an opponent 3 cards and generating 3 for yourself, which is nuts, but more conditional than you might assume, please consider the card advantage less if you're forced to discard these cards due to being unable to play them, or if you're canceling cards that would be used against an opponent.) though due to it's reaction speed it can be played around to an extent, but this has the advantage of being a nice deterrent for using Spell Cards against you.
Remilia: Her passive and Spell Card do not respect range, which is huge (and is why Yukari is much lower). Her passive generates some great card advantage and works quite well as an intimidation factor (each graze replaces itself and denies resources from your opponent, that's a 2 for 1, PLUS you can get even more from having a Supernatural Border). Her Spell Card is ends players, respects nothing (range, avoidance, & cancels) and can often net you an opportunistic kill, generating loot (another 2 cards!). Probably the best of this bunch.
Sakuya: +2 Danmaku/Round is very powerful (artifact level even) and lets you dish out damage quickly, your biggest restriction being range at that point, which is easy enough to get around (Power, Mini-Hakkero, Laser Shot, Melee), if you're lucky enough to draw a Stopwatch you can often kill a player on your own with a deluge of Danmaku. Her Spell Card looks situational, but due to the nature of the game and your passive, if they're unable to use all their attacks you usually come out ahead in any damage race.
Youmu: "Yo dog we put a shoot in your shoot so you could wreck face while you wreck face" Yes you need 2 targets, so she may not shine as brightly as a Stage boss, but if she's one of the many roles with multiple obvious enemies, they need to watch out, because it doesn't take much for her to lay on the hurt. Her Spell Card is just more damage, hell the infinite range is just icing off of the cake of wrecking your enemies, it doens't take much for Youmu to put out 6 damage in 1 turn (Spiritual Attack/Bomb + Shoot + Power/Melee/Stopwatch)
Alice: Being able to build up power & hold onto your Supernatural Border through damage is really nice, but leaves you a great target for Borrow & Seal Away. Basically Alice gets better the longer players leaver her alone, however her Spell Card has the tendency to annoy players and attract aggro, and since it's non targeted it's harder to politic with it, though in the late game it can dish out some nice hits.
Keine: For a passive that's easily forgotten, card selection is no joke in Danmaku, and when it's remembered it's quite good, maybe not as good as generating free cards, but good. Her Spell Card on the other hand gives her an unprecedented amount of control over the game, stopping inopportune tempests, 1-Up uses and action Spell Cards with a damage on top of it is great value, and can often stop tide turners
Patchouli: A large hand is powerful & intimidating. Patchouli needs to time her major plays before Tempests to really keep ahead, as a smaller hand can be blown past by characters who can generate card advantage. Her Spell Card is IMO standard fare, a grimoire (Sutra Scroll in older versions) stapled onto a shoot for 3 'cards'. With only 2 1-Ups (Beer in older versions) in the deck she's not particularly busted, but if you play with 3 or 4 she becomes much more powerful as she has the ability to draw into them more easily than most other characters.
Tenshi: Like Patchouli Tenshi draws a lot of cards, and like Patchouli this can be intimidating to other players. Unlike Patchouli she doesn't have as strong of an early game, though her Spell Card is substantially better (Chalenge + Grimoire, avoids graze/border/distance even if you fail you take cards from them & draw 2 more!). Also like Patchouli she gets a lot better the more 1-Ups are in the deck, as she also can draw into them, and then draw even more cards!
Satori: The best Spell Card in the game, but it's more situational than you might think, largely due to currently being unable to use defeated character's Spell Cards, so as the game goes on you will have less & less options. Her passive is situationally useful (Seeing if Remilia or Yukari have grazes in hand, and being able to out a player unable to defend themselves), but unfortunately it's also easily forgotten.
Aya: Highly dependent on having Danmaku cards. Luckily this is the most common type of card in the deck (32/80) unluckily without them she does very little. Canceling Laser Shots and Reimu's Shoots is quite good, plus her Spell Card has the effect of being a draw 2 or better 2/3rds of the time. What makes her slightly awkward it that your offensive resource is the same as your primary defensive resource, each shoot spent attacking someone is a potential life point saved for yourself or your ally, and these decisions can make a substantial difference.
Meiling: I'm Biased, 1st she's my fav Touhou, 2nd I really like her wonky playstyle. Speaking of Such skipping a turn to draw 2 more cards is not as bad as it sounds. Early game it gives you card selection while staying out of the political intrigue, late game it allows you to gain card advantage AND dodge incidents that can be potentially deadly (Fairies & Trees). Her Spell Card kind of Synergizes with her passive, allowing you to attack when you're turn has been skipped, ignoring range. However, you can often end up discarding due to already filling your hand to max, or being unable to finish someone off on your turn because your bomb is reactive. Play Meiling smart and you will do well.
Byakuren: Like Aya you need Danamaku, unlike Aya you need to know your target and wait for them to attack while still having other means of protecting yourself if they attack you. Her Spell Card is powerful especially the range, but due to the prevalence of cards & Spell Cards that ignore range (Laser Shot, Melee, Last Word, and to a lesser extent Mini-Hakkero for example) poping it does not make her as safe as she used to be.
Cirno: Funny passive, though just because the person you target is 2 distance from you doesn't mean they can't get revenge relatively easily. Her Spell Card is good, denying someone both 2 cards and the ability to play actions & items before they discard from Swing draw or tempest is powerful, but players tend to HATE skipping turns, so don't be surprised if you are murdered quickly solely for picking Cirno. Also she's the most common target of Capture Spell Card, freezing her so she doesn't freeze others.
Marisa: Man that passive looks good, and it is... when you get through, when they have an item left after they discard a power-up. It's not impossible to get your hands on items through her passive but it's harder than it looks. Her Spell Card does have synergy in this regard, though it's almost surprising how the players with items to lose are much more willing to expend cancels or grazes on your attacks over others.
Nitori: Main distance isn't what it used to be, not that she's bad, especially since you can't have both focuses, so your max distance is +3 (passive, focus, stopwatch), though she faces the same problem as Byakuren in that regard. Her Spell Card is situaltionally very useful but lacks the power of characters higher up on this list.
Sanae: Giving cards to allies is big game, and preventing swing draw or the person after you from getting really good cards isn't bad either, there's some synergy with Lilly White and SWR incidents too. Her Spell card is this all or nothing role of the dice that sometimes gets grazed, sometimes does 1 damage and sometimes just kills someone (look for people with cards in hand that haven't had a power/stopwatch for 2+ turns). The only problem her is that none of her abilities can reliably give YOU card advantage, so it's best to make friends, & quick.
Yukari: Another graze focused character, but Yukari is range dependent, which is a big deal when the players wailing on you are out of range due to items/positioning/abilities. ON the plus side your passive is a good deterrent for the players next to you, often wanting to be (temporary) friends on the bad side this may make it so you don't have any good targets for your passive. Her Spell Card takes a card from hand, which is best right after a tempest, when players haven't played their best cards yet, otherwise you often net another graze. Lastly her Spell Card also respects range so make sure to hold onto a way to extend it.
Futo: Her passive isn't bad but requires that you've built up a board presence unmolested (that means dodging Borrows, Seal Aways & Worldy Desires as you can do nothing about those) which is a lot easier said than done. Her Spell Card can be very good IF you've got an ally whose hand is comparatively low, as you can't switch your own sometimes the hand switching effect doesn't do much of anything.
Suika: Her passive is fair (2 cards for 2 cards), especially since you have the option of discarding items in play, the problem is this is only good when you would otherwise need to discard, which is rare outside of the early game (where you often have max life anyways). Empty hands lead to taking damage and losing your life again, though this effect is useful against life loss incidents like Lilly White & the tree. Her Spell Card has 3 modes, everyone is in range, everyone is out of range (barring Mini-Hakkero), and everyone with less range bonus than you is boned. Personally I favor the later, as putting everyone out of range means you can't attack with the card, and isn't going to give you enough time to heal up. Putting everyone in range can work but it can also backfire spectacularly.
Yuuka: Wow she looks so much better at 1st glance than she is. Her passive looks great, and is... when you actually can hit someone (like Marisa easier said than done, especially when they're more careful of you). Her biggest problem is her Spell Card works against her passive (Tempest + Shoot). Any extra cards drawn before your Spell Card Activation get discarded, and the attack from the spell card and her subsequent attacks have to get through her opponents fresh hands! Though if you can get your hands on a Sutra-Scroll that's living the dream, just don't expect to hold onto it.
Miko: So the thing about Miko's ability is you can only get your free Spell Card activation once all card & ability effects have resolved, no playing a Voile as your last card, no activation during tempest, you need a legitimately empty hand, the problem being is that her Spell Card is not very good ([new] Party + Shoot) means everyone gets a card, everyone knows what your only card is, and you have to give a card to the player your attacking (Graze to block it, a shoot to hit you back with, or something even better). If you have more enemies than allies (which is usually) then you're actually generating card DISADVNATAGE whenever you play her spell card. Consider playing Miko's current incarnation Lunatic Mode.
Utsuho: She looks like she does things, but she really doesn't. I've noticed that in all the time that Overdrive has come and gone through the games I've played I can count the times people have paid life for their spell card on 1 hand, and that's for Spell Cards that are a LOT better than Utusho's. IMO Utusho's Spell Card is worth 1.5 'cards' (1/2 of the 3 average I mentioned earlier) it's worth 1 card if grazed/canceled and 2 cards if it hits or grazed by a different player. In the best case scenario you can pay a life in place of a Spiritual Attack/Bomb (1/10th of the deck) to finish someone off, but often in damage race situations you won't have the life to pay OR their hands are full enough that a graze is likely.
In conclusion I'm not saying the game isn't fun or that perfect balance is the ultimate goal or anything concrete like that, just that some characters lead to a better time than others. I hope this information is useful to you Danmakers new and old.
