Author Topic: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival  (Read 14007 times)

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2014, 04:55:50 AM »
Tried scoring Easy with ReimuB. The first 30 seconds of Stage 5 scared me back to ReimuA.
Since I got 1.515b without much practice, 1.54b+ is my goal for now. Have been making notes and experimenting on stage practice.
NANA's stage 4: http://youtu.be/Ge0gbFVSfU4 if anyone's interested

Zil

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2014, 05:00:01 AM »
http://www.twitch.tv/okina_flying_fantastica/c/3622801

Also I got another 105m run with Kotohime. Aiming for 115-120.

Also also, I improved the overall Easy score (WR?) in PoFV to over 170m with Cirno, and have all of the non-Extra high scores for every character on this site's PoFV scoreboard and, as far as I can tell, the gensokyo.org uploader. Royal Flare has nothing and I don't know where else to look. If only more people cared about PoFV scores. :<

I guess I'll play Extra now...

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2014, 05:23:20 AM »
After some practice runs on SA I got:
S1 - 39M
S2 - 45M
S3 - 56M
S4 - 274M
S5 - 261M
S6 - 154M

So I watched every replay as a "full run" (basically locking each stage's score and graze so they carry over to the next replay) and this translates to roughly 3.4bil.
Of course this is a little exaggerated given the somewhat idealistic conditions of practice mode, but if I could just string these together, I believe I would get around 3.2bil

Things I've done (and maybe will improve):
SA L6MNB | SA Lunatic 3b Scorerun | MoF LNB | PCB LNB |DDC LNB

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2014, 08:06:57 AM »
Got a combined score of 700M in practice mode stages with ideal resources. Now to pull it all off in a full run...  ::)
S1: 25M
S2: 42M
S3: 229M
S4: 121M
S5: 191M
S6: 117M (103M without insane strategies)

/edit 710M
//edit 725M

Okay, Stage 1 is probably improvable by 1-2M, by doing the midboss grazing properly and getting crazy good RNG on Rumia (since that's what the whole stage 1 scoring is pretty much about). Getting a score higher than 25M in a real run is very unrealistic though, since the luck is such a big factor. Stage 2 is improvable by including Daiyousei graze into it, probably into 45-47M, but not much more. So in theory I could have 70M entering into stage 3, but my best in full runs so far has been 66.1M. I have been practicing Stage 3 a lot recently, and can follow the WR's score and graze fairly well. Most of the time I'm about 100-200 graze behind entering the boss, depending whether I get the stage opener right (difference of 1150 graze vs 1250 graze). I've had the same graze amount as the WR holder exactly once, and that was on my PB run of 229M, which had a few mistakes such as starting bombing on the wrong side of Meiling on the 2nd non, which cost me a few million (possibly more), and messing up a bomb on the last nonspell which cost me 2M. Without those mistakes it would have probably been equal to the 235M of the WR. I don't do Meiling's openers scary waves where you have to jump away to the side during the waves in full runs yet, unless the score and graze are hideous. At some point I will have to start doing those too, which will make it even worse of a restart-fest. Staying on top of meiling on her midboss nonspell during the first wave doesn't seem worth it to do at all, since it gives less than 50 graze and is extremely risky and luck based. I don't really understand how the score works in Stage 4, since I don't seem to be able to get 120M consistently, even if I enter Patchouli with the same score and graze (if not more) than the WR. There's something I am doing wrong, and I am not sure what it is. The 121M run died on Water elf, which probably cost me 1M or something, and didn't really have great graze on 2nd nonspell, or a good cancel on Mercury Poison. My stage 5 is improvable by 10M, but it's very hard to do so and also RNG plays a big part in getting as much graze pre boss as possible. My 191M run had 200 less graze entering the midboss than it could have, and I believe the midboss grazing wasnt perfect either. I don't think I timed out the nonspells of Sakuya, and that could give a few million points. I think 205M would be possible with great luck and cancels. I haven't really thought much of stage 6, the score could be a lot higher with some ridiculously luck based things like Remilia's 3rd nonspell knife spinning supergraze, but I am never doing that in full runs, so 102M seems like a good score. 105M is probably the maximum score with good luck and timing out all the nonspells, with great cancels, and probably NMNB Remilia, although I am not sure whether I want to go for that or just bomb Meister every time. Maybe if the run is not great then I would do that, but probably not.

At the moment I am not ready for a WR run, my consistency on things is not good enough, and my understanding of spellcard cancels, timings, muscle memory and strategies is still not perfect. I believe 650M is achievable on any run at the moment, I just need to get lucky enough not to die on the things that are scary such as Water Elf (I am very much about not bombing this spell, which causes me to die often with multiple bombs ending the run), Meek safespot and Gensokyo. A good run that doesn't sound too unrealistic would probably go about with these scores: 60M entering stage 3, 270M entering stage 4, 380M entering stage 5, 555-560M entering stage 6, and 650M if I clear. It could be better, even as high as 640 as a gameover or 660-670M on a clear if I play well and have good luck on the important things like Meiling's opener, Stage 5 midboss nonspell graze and so on. I don't know whether I want to use my risky but high scoring Stage 5 strategies in a full run yet, since it's very difficult to pull off. If the score is too low but my resources are somehow still great (as in bad stage 3), then I would probably have to go for it.

Once I get 650M, it's time to go all out, and attack on Ichizoku's weak point, that is his Stage 5. Even if I can't do as good on Stage 3 as him, I can still beat the WR if I get 20M better than him on Stage 5. Full runs are already feeling difficult to reach later stages and becoming a bit frustrating, but it's only going to get worse from this point on.

what an embarrassing post this was wwwww

//edit Okay so I did some really insane Stage 6 which included getting insane point item RNG on the stage fairies, having 150 items going into the midboss, I was kind of low on graze entering Remilia (1350, could be 1550), I bombed Remilia's opener for 100 graze (could be more?), I had perfect cancels on pretty much everything, spinned around the 2nd and 3rd nonspells (4 waves of 3rd non gave me about 800-900 graze). Of course this isn't something you could do in a full run unless you were insane, or you were just on a bad run I guess...

725M total score combined in practice mode now, with the resources the WR route gives you. 750M is probably possible, but that's as high as it will ever go, most likely. (70M entering S3, 310M entering s4, 435M entering s5, 635M entering s6 and then a 115M s6 with spinning knives nonspell.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 05:01:04 PM by cactu »

chum

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2014, 04:02:38 PM »
Epic Thread

Touhou is ded

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2014, 06:08:21 PM »
There's no use for this thread if the blogging thread exists, so this might as well be ignored completely in my opinion and let people post in the blogging thread instead no matter what they do in the games.

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2014, 06:28:42 PM »
Nobody scores.jpg

chum

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2014, 06:29:17 PM »

CyberAngel

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2014, 07:36:09 PM »
I promise I'll come here asking for IN scoring pointers when I'll start working on it. Just keep it alive until then.

...The sad part is that it'll be in around half a year :(

Sakurei

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2014, 07:42:52 PM »
What you say it'll in half a year and not, let's say, right now? I'm pretty sure you could start easy mode scoring for example, or work on normal mode even. I understand you want to do other things first, but why specifically hlf a year?

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2014, 08:01:47 PM »
Posting I guess:
My stage 1-3 sucks dongs. Stage 4 is okay, stage 5 is okay but I keep fucking it up in runs, stage 6 is okay but I keep dying to Okuu in runs.
Parsee 2nd spell 2 hard. Yuugi's 1st spell 2 hard. Satori's 1st spell 2 hard.
I guess I can learn a better stage 4 and I can get 4b even if I scrub 1-3.

Edit:
After I get 4b I'm gonna play MoF again. Goal being 2.17b.
And after MoF maybe EoSD ;)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 08:04:52 PM by dxk »

CyberAngel

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2014, 08:41:18 PM »
What you say it'll in half a year and not, let's say, right now? I'm pretty sure you could start easy mode scoring for example, or work on normal mode even. I understand you want to do other things first, but why specifically hlf a year?

Just a rough estimate of when I'll be done with everything else I want to do until I try IN again. A closer estimate would be 3-4 months. I don't want to delve into scoring yet because I'm pretty tired of IN already and want to just finish what I planned to do for now. But I'm sure I'll be pretty glad to be back to it after that long.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2014, 08:06:11 AM »
I'm inconsistent as heck on everything, but I think I should be able to get 650M soon, since I have runs that could reach that score even with the mistakes I constantly make (for example dying on s3 and losing 15M score and still being on the path of reaching 650M if I just don't fuck up more). Right now I should probably restart runs that have a score lower than 250M entering stage 4, but I don't since I just keep playing on those runs for practice. My scores reaching stage 4 are usually ranging from 230M (complete shit, mind you this was the score I had on my 605M run), 250M (good enough, 120M s4, 180M s5 and 100M s6 is enough for 650M, although I don't expect to hit 650 on runs that have this score, so I just play for a chance of getting a PB or just for practice.), sometimes I have runs that have 270M or so, which allow 650M even with mistakes, or if I play really well should reach 670M, or maybe even 650m on a Gensokyo gameover... I just hope that doesn't happen, lol.

Seems like Hayamin likes my strategy of bombing and suiciding on Meiling opener, that's cool.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2014, 10:56:20 PM »
My score progression in EoSD. All the other runs are with ReimuB, other than the first one.

265M 10-04-2012 (Gameover, MarisaB)
300M 25-04-2013
339M 28-04-2013
372M 29-04-2013
383M 03-05-2013
400M 03-05-2013 (Western Record)
472M 19-09-2013
500M 09-10-2013
558M 19-11-2013
574M 16-12-2013 (Gameover)
605M 16-01-2014 (Gameover)

Also uploaded a related video regarding scoring... kind of.
I still think this thread should be merged with the blogging thread, instead of having two of these.

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2014, 01:34:50 AM »
I think that the thread's original purpose was too discuss scoring tactics but since nobody plays the same categories it just turned into a blog.

chum

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2014, 02:12:44 AM »
Blogging is good.

The goal is 600 million points in all Lunatic routes combined, and I currently have 554,2 million.

A1: 91,8 (WR: 103)
A2: 112,4 (WR: 115)
B1: 89,3 (WR: 100)
B2: 89,7 (WR: 100)
C1: 89,7 (WR: 99,5)
C2: 81,3 (WR: 101,8)

WRs combined = 619,3 mil.

All of the non-A2 runs are pretty much shit. It's always surprising how much you fall behind even when you think you aren't doing that badly somewhere, it's because the gains aren't obvious at all and the key to this game is to write down shittons of notes for every little thing. Think I'm going to start doing that for B1 and then I can hopefully start increasing it further.... Why B1? Petty reason, I'd like to at least be #1 for every route on MoTK, but BaitySM has the B1 high score at the moment. I have to wonder, why B1 of all things... but whatever.

I don't have any exact plans for each route since the familiarization process takes some time, and there is always a chance that I'll suddenly decide to try and exceed that goal, or that I drop the goal completely. Still, I think 94 or 95 million on all the routes is going to be required, while certain routes will undoubtedly be pushed further.

C1 is the route I have the second most experience with and I do think I can get pretty close to WR-level in that. At the moment, I have no plans to play A2 for a while. I'm happy with the results from the 100-something hours I put into it, although I didn't WR, one run did have WR-level execution (if not better execution) but worse luck, so I'm satisfied with the results from the grind, I really did put in my all and was patient with the game, and I don't want to go through that again, because the immense luck required, while also not making execution mistakes, is just too significant.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2014, 02:24:30 PM »
I got a 244.8M Stage 3 yesterday, and another 236.4M stage 3 right now. So that's Ichizoku's stage three beaten twice so far... Maybe I can actually do this!

Mino ☆

  • PCB player.
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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2014, 10:38:31 PM »
So I started getting back into PCB Lunatic scoring again. I've been enjoying myself. I've improved my first three stages tremendously.

I had a great run going, but unfortunately I fucked up the last three stages, and only got 1.776bil out of it. :(

But that was only one run. It definitely had 1.9bil material. And if I can get a better stage 4, I can definitely get into the 2 billions.

Speaking of stage 4, that's definitely my biggest weakness. Gotta practice it up~

My ultimate goal is 2.5bil. It might not seem like a lot, but it will definitely take a long time to get to. Scoring is hard.

If I even do reach that milestone, I'll have to see if I want to take it further...

-

Also. I've been taking a peek at Ten Desires scoring. Sue me, but it looks intriguing to me...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 10:40:17 PM by Mino ☆ »

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2014, 06:59:05 PM »
Well here are some practice PBs. Runs later:
Stage 1: 7500
Stage 2: ??? (Never practiced)
Stage 3: 10500
Stage 4: 22800
Stage 5: 9500 (NM), 14000 (1M) entering Orin. Graze on Orin depends

Anything entering stage 3 with 33k graze should be 4b potential now. Realistically stage 3 should be 9-9.5k (not fully time-out nons). I realize this is pretty scrubby but I can't be bothered to do Parsee's 2nd spell graze or most stage 1 grazes.
Stage 4 is very static, I'm still only grazing two sunflower fairies, maybe I should learn 3? I noticed recently I've actually been ending Satori's 1st spell 1 wave too early (miss about 200 g). I hope to get 22000 g in this stage in a real run.
Stage 5 route depends on how I do on Satori. If I bomb Insect Nest I lose 2k g from 1 less bomb on the opener. If I die to Satori I can't suicide on midboss Orin.
Stage 6 should be simple enough. (80-87k g entering). If all goes well I can 4b even if I clear with no lives.

Mino ☆

  • PCB player.
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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2014, 12:42:06 AM »
Started learning the Chen bombs and borders.

When I first saw scoring runs dying and bombing on Chen, I didn't understand what the gain was. Now that I have more experience with the game, I understand it. The first bomb is to get cherry+. A suicide grants you more bombs and allows you to full power clear the second nonspell in order to get enough cherry for a second border. You then bomb the first non again to make sure you have just enough cherry+ for a border on her first spell.

You get the border on the first spell, time it out, and then get the border on the second nonspell via getting the full power clear (and cherry items that spawn from the other power items on screen).

With this method, you get two borders instead of one on Chen. So now I understand.

Also, with good play, I should be able to reach 450,000 CherryMAX at Chen. (440,000 at minimum).

Now I'm gonna try and learn stage 3 better. I want to do the graze on Alice's second midboss non.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2014, 11:36:46 PM »
EoSD scoring in a nutshell right here. That 579M run was a 640M potential run that gameovered on Young Demon Lord. All of those (6)'s, soon even my last place clear will go away. :(


Also experimented with extended Mooooooooooooooonlight ray supergraze, seems pretty easy to do and it gives about 2M score, so once I go for WR I'll probably use this instead of Daiyousei graze.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 11:58:53 PM by cactu »

redlakitu

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2014, 03:04:59 PM »
My fingers hurt after practicing IN Easy Stages 1 through 5 for a few hours. My best score so far is just barely over 2 billion using solo Reimu, now I want to improve this score significantly using solo Marisa. So far, in my best practice runs I can get around 6k time points on Stage 1, almost 14k on Stage 2, >16k Stage 3, >19k Stage 4 and again >16k Stage 5, much better than my old run in every instance. Also thanks to input from three separate sources, I'm getting better at Reimu's first midboss nonspell. I might still want to bomb it for now, though. This would mean a total of three planned bombs, the other two being a certain place in Stage 4 and Reisen's first nonspell. And finally, my item collection is getting better, too. All in all, I should be able to achieve my initial goal of 2.2 billion in the foreseeable future.

chum

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2014, 07:27:27 PM »
Update

A-1    91,894,240
A-2   112,406,610
B-1   96,002,610
B-2  89,763,550
C-1   89,727,350
C-2   92,027,760
Combined: 571,822,120

B-1 is not looking too bad, I think that I could get 98 or 99 million, but 100 million or higher seems really unlikely... way too much RNG magic. I'll try, but you really hit a wall when you're roughly a few million from CLR in just about any given route, it seems, because the game is just a total mystery. I felt like I had a better grip of what was going on in A2 and my strategies were better than CLR's, but luck and execution just never came together. In B1, I really can't tell when It's a matter of luck or if I'm really doing something terribly wrong.

Route-wise I'm not really sold on any of my ideas so far. CLR's suicides in stage 2 make sense, but I do like the idea of placing suicides elsewhere, this unfortunately tends to be impossible due to accidental deaths. Star is a total nightmare. I think the worst parts about the suicides is that they may have to be decided on the spot due to the freezes determining your Perfect Freeze. I may have to note down very exact PF numbers for every part of every stage at this rate, in order to correctly determine suicide placements in runs.



« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 07:29:53 PM by chum »

redlakitu

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2014, 08:30:51 PM »
OK, well, looks like IN Marisa is too hot too handle for me, so to speak. More precisely, I am completely unused to her unfocused speed and the consequences are disastrous. Numerous really promising runs were ruined on Stage 6 because I keep dashing like a maniac instead of gently evading bullets. So while I could easily get a 2.2 billion score with my usual performance in earlier stages, all the mistakes I make trying to survive Kaguya mean that I need to postpone my goal a bit. Maybe it's time to switch to another game for a while. UFO, PCB or even EoSD are all nice alternatives.

Meanwhile, why do I even like IN Easy scoring? Imperishable Night was the first game I tried scoring in, the first game where I achieved my scoring goal, and still the most appealing one in terms of scoring. Why? Probably because of the feeling of power. For a relatively bad and inexperienced player (e.g. me), playing Touhou usually means feeling overwhelmed by all the bullets and action for the better part of the game, intimidated into staying on the defensive. IN Easy is different in that I actually feel in control almost all the time.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2014, 11:06:17 PM »
Give EoSD Normal a go ;3

redlakitu

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2014, 07:06:59 PM »
Give EoSD Normal a go ;3
I might, though when it comes to EoSD, I prefer survival to scoring. A No Death EoSD Normal run is long overdue.

CyberAngel

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2014, 08:27:46 PM »
I made a promise, so I'm back! The allure of scoring got so strong I decided to cut everything I can, so I'll be able start my IN Easy scoring attempts in a week or so. Anyway, while I have time to prepare, here's what I understand on basic IN scoring pointers. Please, feel free to correct me if I got something wrong or add useful tips to keep in mind that I'm not aware off.

  • Survival. I already had a taste of how losing a life can hit the score, so no-miss is almost a must, I guess. Not bombing is preferable too, but maybe not as much? I can think of a few cases where I might want to bomb for survival less hassle and autocollecting items, like in stage 4. What do you think, not a bad idea, I hope? Also, seems like failing the final Last Spell rush would have a big impact too, so not missing there is needed as well, I guess.
  • Familiars. In stages, wait for the fairies to release them, then kill their master while they're still on screen. During bosses, almost time them out so they release as much as possible. Finishing them with as much familiars on screen as possible might be a good thing to keep in mind too.
  • Gauge. Stay human during stages for double point item value, PoC as much as possible. Stay youkai during bosses for grazing. Though, outside of supergrazes, Easy mode doesn't seem to be very profitable with that. Maybe staying human might be a good idea in a few places.

All this applies to teams. Solo youkai would be the same, sans staying unfocused in stages. But what could be improved for solo humans? Not destroying familiars and letting them appear as much as possible is one thing that would improve scores. Is grazing useful for them? They do seem to get more score for it, but does that make a big enough difference worth the risk?

Karisa

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2014, 11:08:22 PM »
Nice to see someone else learning the scoring systems.

IN isn't one of my better games regarding scoring mechanics, but I noticed a few things:
  • Familiars. In stages, wait for the fairies to release them, then kill their master while they're still on screen. During bosses, almost time them out so they release as much as possible. Finishing them with as much familiars on screen as possible might be a good thing to keep in mind too.
Finishing with more familiars on screen is more important than the total number released. Also, the location of the familiars matters-- the familiar explosions cancel bullets and turn them into extra time orbs.

Capturing spells gives more time orbs based on how quickly you capture. So in spells where it's not useful to graze for time orbs, it's generally better to try to speedkill them unfocused (waiting at the end if needed to cancel familiars at a good time).

Note that familiars give more time orbs to solo humans (including solo Youmu) for some reason-- they're different categories anyway, but it means you can't directly compare the time counts between them.

  • Gauge. Stay human during stages for double point item value, PoC as much as possible. Stay youkai during bosses for grazing. Though, outside of supergrazes, Easy mode doesn't seem to be very profitable with that. Maybe staying human might be a good idea in a few places.
I think in Easy scoring, when playing as a team or solo Youmu, it'd be better to stay unfocused nearly the entire time (though in some places it can be useful to focus as a team to avoid letting your shots destroy familiars).

If you do focus for a spell, anyway, don't forget to unfocus when you capture it, to let the time orbs bring the gauge back to -80% before reaching the PoC.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 08:45:33 PM by Karisa »

Sakurei

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2014, 12:42:08 AM »
Survival: Generally on easy mode, you don't die planned. The Solo Youmu record suicides once for some gain in stage 4, but that's a strat you wouldn't be using unless you went for really really high scores. I don't know if other solo humans could apply that suicide, but I high doubt any team or Solo youkai would. Take a look at the WR for you category and see about possible suicides (I don't think you will find those a lot) and bomb placements. There are a few bombs, depending on who you use. My Youmu route uses two, for example. Current WR uses one bomb (but suicides in stage 4, which isn't something I did. It's also not optimal, but infinitely easier to do than doing it without the suicide). If you're cautious or not too confident, there are 3 places to bomb for Youmu. As I said before: Take a look at the WR, it'll always be the most optimized run you will find and if you're not sure why they do something, feel free to shoot me up a PM and I'll take a look at it too and try to understand it. I'm sure that at almost every shot uses a bomb or two somewhere, but not much more than that.
It might be okay to bomb This section for the point items on solo human characters (I don't believe teams or solo youkai should have any issues with killing things, aside from perhaps Magic/Solo Alice, because her shot is questionably useful for stages). It's a very hectic section and one of those places where you'd probably incorporate a bomb with solo Youmu if you're a careful player since dying there is really easy. For the Last spell rush at the end of the game: Yes. It's a break or make. An otherwise perfectly good run can go to hell there, so practice all spells a lot. When I started easy mode scoring I didn't for the supergraze on the 4th last spell until I had 2.8b I think. But I played solo Youmu, I feel like it's much more significant on solo youkai, if you're planning to play one of those. Regardless of whether you want to include it in your runs, you should start practicing it already because eventually you will want to include it in your runs and it's easier to put something into a run when you can already do it. Practice all 5 of them as they're the most important attacks in the game to capture.

Familiars: Yes, generally speaking it's better to let enemies spawn as many familiars as possible. They're almost exclusive to stage 2, but there are enemies that don't spawn all familiars at the same time, but one after another. Those fairies you have to be careful on. The maximum they should spawn is 4 familiars, otherwise you will lose the next fairy, which loses score. The problem with letting them spawn 4 familiars however is that the window is extremely tight in which you can kill them off. A few frames at most. So I don't think you should include it until your scores reach a fairly high level of optimization. Unless I am forgetting something, those fairies that spawn familiar after familiar also exist in stage 3 (So those one-by-one are exclusive to those two stages), and there are a few ways to handle those on easy mode. You could kill them asap, which I wouldn't recommend as that loses some score. What I do in that run is wait for them to spawn familiars and then kill them off before Keine appears on the screen, but the current WR (with Youmu) actually waits even longer and cancels out some of Keine's bullets with the fairy (I was told to try it on normal too, but I got rekt mercilessly, so I dunno if they were joking or not w). I haven't tried doing that on easy, but I imagine it's quite difficult still, so I'm not sure you should go for it. Try it and decide for yourself, I guess They also exist later in the stage, at which point the thing to keep in mind is that if you don't kill them in time, they'll die due to boss appearance, causing you to lose the time they'd have otherwise given you, so be wary of that. Anyway, it's important to know that you're missing enemies if you wait too long for the fairies in stage 2, but not for those in stage 3.
Another thing to keep in mind is that when there's fairies that spawn bullets after spawning familiars (and there are plenty of those in the game) that you gain most time the moment they spawn their bullets. This is especially important in stage 2 and 3, learn to kill the enemies at that moment. Enemies that spawn the familiars at the same time, but delayed also give more time for a few frames at most, it might be only one or two frames, I'm not sure. Those are most common in stage 1. I don't think anyone every pulled of a flawless stage 1, so don't worry about getting it all right too much. Just makes sure to not fuck up too much by killing a bunch of familiars everywhere. Another thing to keep in mind, that you probably already know, is that the more bullets you cancel out with enemy familiars, the more time you gain. I have no idea how much it is per bullet and probably varies depending on a lot of factors, but I want to go with this is that in a lot of places in the game, you want to lure aimed bullets towards familiars for time gain, like I did here. Depending on the section, it will require some practice, but I think it's significant enough to go for regardless of skill level. It also clears the bullets out so you don't have to dodge them w.  And yes, you are correct when you say that you usually wanna finish them of with as many familiars as possible on the screen, since offscreen familiars give no time.

Gauge: For starters, if you're playing a solo youkai, you can't reach -80, so you'll be stuck at 80 forever. I am sure you noticed that, which is also the reason why solo youkai score like half of what solo human get. The reverse is true for solo humans (Youmu is the exception, but she's the best anyway). So with Solo youkai you're virtually always focused and stay at 80%, and with solo human you're almost always unfocused (You only focus to dodge, really) and stay at -80%. The teams and Youmu have a few spots where they graze (like Reisen's last nonspell or the 4th last spell from Kaguya), but not a lot. So basically unless you play a solo youkai you rarely focus for anything ever. However, if you are facing a difficult attack that you aren't sure to capture if you were to stay unfocused, don't feel bad if you have to focus. Failing a spell would be far worse than losing some time and spellcardvalue. Something a lot of players do is tap focus to dodge. That way you stay at below -80% and still have focused speed for the dodge. It requires some practice to get used to, but once you got the hang of it, it'll come automatically. Just be careful not to tap focus for too long or too often in short succession, otherwise you'll get pushed over -80%. But again, if it's an attack you have troubles with, don't beat yourself up over it. I've fucked that up plenty of times myself. And yes, PoC'ing at below -80% gives you twice the points, so always always do that. The stages are designed so you can basically PoC every item in the game. Not always safely, but it's possible to do.

Solo human grazing is about as useful as it is in PCB (assuming it's not a spellcard and you have no border active). You get 6000 points for every graze you do at below -80%. Additionally, when you finish a spellcard (nonspells too?) you gain points and the number of points you gain are determined by your graze, so it's somewhat important to do some grazing even if you're playing solo human. Don't got for some sick supergraze however as the risk is basically never worth it 8Except Wriggle's last spellcard, due to you having to PoC it anyway, which is why you hug her unfocused even on solo humans, not sure if you've seen that before). But things like Mystia's last nonspell are things you're supposed to stall one way or another and you can get some easy graze through it. Those are the kinda things you should go for. It's not some gamebreaking secret technique to graze with solo humans and good grazing won't turn a mediocre run into some superplay, but it's significant enough to keep in mind to go for some free graze.
Not destroying familiars in stage potions is probably the hardest part about solo human scoring and it starts with stage 1 and finishes only when you're done, basically (destroying them on Kaguya isn't really much of an issue, but eh, saying from start to finish makes it sound cooler, lol). This is particularly important on stage potions. Most of the time bosses respawn familiars and if they do not respawn them, they're very durable (Marisa has examples for both: She has attacks with very durable, basically indestructible familiars and some where she respawns them). It's a case-to-case thing whether you want to destroy a boss' familiars, but most of the time it goes something like this: If the boss' familiars are durable, they don't respawn, thus you want to finish the attack with all familiars intact (Kaguya's Buddhist Diamond). If the boss' familiars respawn only after you have destroyed one, you will want to milk the familiars as much as possible (midboss Marisa's first nonspell). If the boss spawns familiars in waves and does so regardless of whether you shoot them or not, then you will want to prefer to not destroy them (Mystia's last nonspell). Those 3 statements aren't universally true, but I think they're a decent guideline for what to do on a certain attack. There are some attacks where the boss spawns more familiars regardless of what you do, but you still shoot them (but try not to destroy them), like Keine's nonspells. That's a bit more high level I guess (?), but still something worth noting.
Also note the following: You deal less damage to the boss when you shoot her familiars instead of her directly. This is used in some spellcard to gain more time without losing spellcard value (Like in Keine's first spellcard on easy. With Youmu it's free extra points, the others will require some knowledge on how much you can damage the familiars). And while you can finish off a spellcard by shooting familiars, you can not kill a nonspell like that. The boss will basically remain at 0 health without you ever finish the attack if you just shoot her familiars. This is useful on a few nonspells where you have durable familiars that don't respawn, but you still want to milk them as much as possible: You shoot the boss until she is low of health and them milk the familiars just until before you destroy them (Marisa's first boss nonspell). Tei is the only exception to that. Only her nonspells can die by shooting her familiars. But be careful during the milking. If even a single one of your bullets touch the boss, you'll move on to the next attack. I imagine that being a massive problems with Reimu's homing and with Marisa's napalm to an extent. Careless handling with Youmu's option will also cause that. Sakuya's spread has to be paid attention to as well. Of course, that sort of milking doesn't exist for solo youkai, but they milk differently.

I hope that helps and I also hope I didn't forget anything super important w. If you wanna chat it up some more, join either of the the IRC channels #kusoplay or #pc-99 on the Rizon network. #kusoplay is somewhat NSFW, so if you have a problem with a bunch of weirdos, I suggest you join #pc-99 instead. I'm in both channels a lot under the nick Sakurei or Spacebuffalo.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 01:14:42 AM by Syaro »

Jirachi

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2014, 12:51:42 AM »