Hearthstone

[Suikama]

I'm not sure if you even need legendaries. Like you're thinking of basically control warrior + taunts, but with bolster working like a weaker but meatier and permanent savage roar, it might work better as a midrange deck that plays a bunch of taunts and sticky minons, clears the board with weapons and spells, and then threatens lethal with bolster or maybe even warsong + frothing lol

Or maybe dragons + taunts is best, i dunno it's too early to say. Warrior does have Alexstraza's champion for that

Gorehowl might be good in the deck since you have a ton of taunts protecting your face

Oh yeah another good thing about sparing partner is be can 'bypass' taunts. Like if they have belcher + KT, you taunt the KT and then you can attack it etc.

[Raikaria]

The Warlock already got great flexibility in decks due to their Hero Power. I also agree they didn't get too much, but it doesn't really doom any of their current decks. The most interesting card of theirs might be Dark Bargain because there is no single card removal that actually removes 2 enemy minions (Twisting Nether and Deathwing aside). If the meta does slow down, I think that card has a place.

If anything, Rogues got seriously shafted. I don't think they got enough support for a Control archetype despite Anub'Arak. Cutpurse might be their most impactful minion, but it has to stay alive a turn. It's going to be Oil Rogue and Pirate Rogue, but it's hard to say if Pirate Rogue will be any good otherwise, it's just more of the same. Rogues are not very exciting at all.

High impact cards are most definitely there and it's unfortunate not every class got them.
Shaman: Mistcaller, Healing Wave, Ancestral Knowledge
Druid: Mulch, Darnassus Aspirant and Living Roots (1 mana choose). And Aviana.
Hunter: Acidclaw+Dreadscale, King's Elekk (2 drop with Joust draw) Powershot, and Ram Wrangler for their control archetype, much more exciting than any Rogue control.

I think only the above 3 classes truly got really exciting cards. The rest:

Paladin: Mysterious Challenger (6/6 with secrets), Seal of Champions (their version of Velen's Chosen). And a bunch of weird psuedo removal.
Priest: Holy Champion (solid 4 drop at last), Wyrmrest Agent (2/5 taunt if running Dragon Priest) to pair with Twilight Guardian.
Mage: Effigy. Not so much other things, but possibly Coldarra Drake and Fallen Hero.

Warriors got relative crap with the exception of Varian.

If Warlock, Rogue and Warrior get any deck types, it'll probably have to come from the unique neutrals for TGT.

Cut: Looks like my opinions are more or less mirrored with Suikama's.

Warlocks got nothing. The best card they got this expansion is... uh... Frost Giant? Which is a completely optional card.

Rouge's not shafted. Buccaneer is good enough to run outside of Pirate Rouge. Beneath the Grounds is an awesome card in mill. Shado-Pan should find it's way into Oil as a 7HP body; and might even revive Tempo. Burgle is a 2 for 1 carddraw; which should never be under-estimated.

My opinions on each class; including usable Neutrals:

Druid:
Firstly; I was wrong about Astral Commune; apparently you only get the Excess Mana if you play it at 10; not always. This means the best standalone cards they got were Mulch [Which plugs Druid's only weakness and mill Druid can work around the downside] and Living Roots. Aviana is good but only in specific situations. It's not as niche as Fizzlebang. Blizzard are REALLY pushing Beast Druid now, to the point it might actually be a thing. Question is if Knight of the Wild reduces it's cost when you summon 'Druid of the X' which is summoned as a non-beast but then transforms into one.

It is worth noting Druids only got 1 class card which interacts with hero powers at all. I also don't really see many Neutrals making the cut in Druid; but Druid class cards are so good anyway in general. The only card Druid is getting that probobly won't see play is Wildwalker.

Hunter:
The only card in the entire set geared towards Face Hunter is Brave Hunter. Which is garbage. But as I said earlier; it seems Blizzard really; really want to kill Face Hunter [Which is one half of the stranglehold on deckbuilding atm; the other being Patron which I'll talk about later]. Every single other card in Hunter's set is heavily pushing a control hunter; either being higher-cost cards, or defensive in nature. Hell; Hunters might actually be one of the best anti-aggro decks out there now between Explosive Trap and Powershot. King's Elekk is also pretty nice in midrange/contrfol Hunters; provided the meta doesn't slow down so much midrange only wins on a highmane pull.

Again, I do not see much for Hunters in the neutral department. Justicar Trueheart is the worst value in Hunter. Control Hunters might run one of Sideshow Spelleater to trade their hero powers for something better. Maybe.

Mage:
I find the Mage cards the most interesting. The only one which stands out as potentially powerful on it's own right is Effigy. However, most of the cards have niche uses. Even Flame Lance can be run to conserve Fireballs for face damage. Also honestly I'd rather see Arcane Blast cost 2 but be able to go face. But I guess a 12 damage nuke for 2 mana from Malygos is a thing that Blizzard are scared of, even if Malygos would have to survive a turn. Not liking how Rhonin is basically useless unless you have Antonidas. Boar is a finisher in Face Mage; and is probobly the single best aggro card revealed. [IT'S ALWAYS HUFFER]. Everything else will see play in gimmicky decks, and due to mage having a lot of hero power class cards this is where you might see a full-on inspire deck.

Paladin:
No Paladin card is bad [Except maybe Argent Lance; even Murloc Knight isn't bad], but no Paladin card except Tuskkar Jouster really stands out either. Enter the Colosseum would be bad on any class except one with such a heavy focus on Divine Shield; allowing their champion to trade with the enemy one for free. Mysterious Challenger is a decent body with a mild upside. Warhorse Trainer would be awesome if it cost 4 mana; had a bigger body because of MFB.

Also; in the neutrals; pretty significant Dragon Pally buffs.

Preist:
I'm hyped. I'm so hyped. Not a single card here is unplayable, and literally every Priest archetype except Randuin got something cool [And Randuin got the Legendary at least ]. Aggressive Priests have Flash Heal which they can Alchenai into Burst; Spawn of Shadows; and Refeshment Vendor [Alchenai is 4 damage to each hero]. Combo Priests got Confuse. Generic Priests got literally every card in the set. Holy Champion might be one of the set's top cards; especially with Refreshment Vendor healing both heros thus giving her +4. Even Dragon Priests got toys.

And yes; I'm hyped for Refreshment Vendor in Priest.

Rouge:
Nowhere near as shafted as most people are claiming. Yes their legendary sucks.  So does Poisoned Blade. None of the other cards are outright bad, and Beneath the Grounds [Mill]; Shado-Pan [Tempo/Oil] and Buccaneer [Any] should easily find deckslots. Burgle; Cutpurse and Undercity are also all certainly playable.

Shaman:
We knew Blizzard were gonna buff Shamans. They buffed Shamans. They did get 2 pieces of complete garbage [Totemcarver and Elemental Destruction which is a Flamestrike which you pay 1 more for in total and nukes your own board too] but everything else ranges from borderline broken [Healing Wave; Mistcaller; Totem Golem] to powerful; with the possible exception of Charged Hammer; which is certainly playable. Also; Shamans tend to press the button quite a lot; and Justicar Trtueheart gives them an effective x4 hero power boost; by far the best.

Warlock:
Every card here is garbage, and they got nothing from neutrals. Truely shafted.

Warrior:
Firstly; with the exactly 0 ways to deal with Patron added into the game, and the fact that Blizzard actually does nerf low-interaction decks [Freeze Mage; Miracle Rouge] and OTK decks [Giant Warrior; Miracle Rouge], I consider a Patron Nerf either with the release of TGT or shortly afterwards when Blizzard sees it's still stupid as inevitable at this point. Especially since Sea Reaver is a potential Patron Buff; and Sparring Partner can help stem off the Warrior getting rushed.

Varien and Sparring Partner are easily the best cards here. Bolster is not garbage because Sparring exists. Everything else is average at best.

I think the winners of TGT were Priest; Shaman and Druid. The loser was certainly Warlock.

[qMyon]

Preist:
I'm hyped. I'm so hyped. Not a single card here is unplayable, and literally every Priest archetype except Randuin got something cool [And Randuin got the Legendary at least ]. Aggressive Priests have Flash Heal which they can Alchenai into Burst; Spawn of Shadows; and Refeshment Vendor [Alchenai is 4 damage to each hero]. Combo Priests got Confuse. Generic Priests got literally every card in the set. Holy Champion might be one of the set's top cards; especially with Refreshment Vendor healing both heros thus giving her +4. Even Dragon Priests got toys.

And yes; I'm hyped for Refreshment Vendor in Priest.

*snip*

I think the winners of TGT were Priest; Shaman and Druid. The loser was certainly Warlock.

I'm pretty happy for the Priest cards. Could result in some elevation of Priest decks to more competitive levels.

The only thing I'm concerned about is how so much of the new stuff is banking on Auchenai as an enabler. It feels as though Priest will become more and more combo-reliant - which may not turn out well. One of the big problems I notice with Priest is how it is very reliant on synergy to compete. Furthermore, existing Priest decks already feel fairly clogged with mini-combo pieces - which makes it difficult to decide what to cut.

Granted, Warlock got shafted - but I'm pretty stumped as to what could improve on what's there without being pretty overly strong. Handlock and Zoolock variants have been strong for ages, so I doubt they will get too hurt.

I'm very interested to see if new deck archetypes like Taunt Warrior or Inspire Mage will go anywhere.

[PX]

Not liking how Rhonin is basically useless unless you have Antonidas.

Dude, 3 mana Avenging Wrath +1 Damage
Or just throw one spell damage and it's 12 damage flying around

[Mr. Sacchi]

Or use it with Malygos and you suddenly have 24 damage flying around.

Or just pop your flamewakers or something.

I mean it isn't even impossible if you get bad card draw and go for lategame.

Flamewaker -> Flamewaker -> Arcane Missiles x3 = 15 damage dealt to random enemies. That's a lot.

I don't really see Patron getting nerfed too hard tbh, they'll probably just reduce Grim Patron's damage from 3 > 2 and call it a day.

[Iryan]

Beneath the Grounds might be nice in like Mill Rogue? It basically gives you potential minion value as you mill. It's still a useless card on the turn you use it though. Also it makes their deck bigger which is counter intuitive to milling so eh.

Actually, if it works anything like the iron juggernaut (which I am pretty sure it does), drawing a trap immediately makes them draw one card after, so if they DRAW the trap, then you do not increase their deck size at all. The question is, what happens when a trap is "drawn" while they already have 10 cards in hand. If that burns the nerub without drawing extra cards, then this card would not be too good for straight-up mill but might still be useful in... well, I'd think of something. If it would trigger the nerubs but not draw a new card, or does draw another card without triggering the nerub, it would be a decent card for mill. If milling it does trigger the nerub AND makes them draw the additional card, it would be pretty sweet.


Unrelatedly... booya, best arena run yet. 12/1 with mage. 

[PX]

If you burn the mine from too many cards, it doesn't activate because you never drew it. I'm assuming the same thing happens here

[Suikama]

I don't really see Patron getting nerfed too hard tbh, they'll probably just reduce Grim Patron's damage from 3 > 2 and call it a day.

i assume you havent seen the real patron combo :V

the problem isn't the patrons, it's frothing being able to otk for over 50 dmg in one turn with no counterplay whatsoever. if you play minions they get more damage, if you play taunts they get executed, if you play nothing then they STILL BURST FOR 50

[Raikaria]

And the OTK is what I think will get hit.

I think they'll make it so Warsong Commander is an aura; not 'when you summon give charge so if a Frothing goes to 5000 attack it loses charge.

Boom; OTK gone; and Patron as a cool alternate decktype of control is still usable.

[Suikama]

yep that's pretty much the perfect nerf. stops the stupid frothing bs while hurting nothing else

the frothing combo would still even work if you can get frothing to live one turn, but one turn is all you need for actual counterplay so it would be way more fair than it is now

[Suikama]

Triple Oil OP

e: LMAO I even got oil from my packs

[Bio]

RIP Booty Bay Bodyguard, Magma Rager.

[Raikaria]

> Mage Arena
> Epic picks
> All bad; best choice is Fel Reaver since my deck is rushy anyway
> Play Fel Reaver 1st game
>< Instant Humility
Lose

Of course the enemy has the exact card needed to screw me.

[Mr. Sacchi]

i assume you havent seen the real patron combo :V

the problem isn't the patrons, it's frothing being able to otk for over 50 dmg in one turn with no counterplay whatsoever. if you play minions they get more damage, if you play taunts they get executed, if you play nothing then they STILL BURST FOR 50

And what could they do to fix frothing? Raising his mana wouldn't work cause of Thaurissan, turning him into a 4/2 would make him literally unplayable, making him a 2/3 makes him far too vulnerable, and restricting his effect to himself would also gut the card.

At best, they could make it so that only your minions count but then EVERYONE GET IN HERE happens and that changes the 50 damage to 40, or they could make it so that only enemy minions count and then it becomes good against aggro and that's about it.

[Suikama]

make it so warsong doesnt charge him if he goes above 3 attack. Then the otk is impossible unless you can get your frothings on board to survive a turn. This also prevents later shenanigans if they make a frothing 2.0 or something

[Sahgren]

I'm not certain that's actually the answer. Charge (the card) would reenable it, as would any other card that grants charge that they decide to make in the future. Sure it's an extra card in the combo, but that's still a counterplay-less OTK. For the sake of getting rid of reactionless gameplay it would probably be more efficient to just nerf Frothing itself somehow and not have to keep designing around it in the future.

[Suikama]

one extra combo would actually make a significant difference. Right now the whole patron deck just has so much synergy and versatility. Like frothing and warsong can be used to OTK BUT you can also use them for removal vs more aggressive decks like face hunter.

Charge on the other hand is a pretty garbage card outside of otk decks, and forcing it to be included hurts the deck severely. Charge otk decks exist already with wargens but it's nowhere near as good as patron because it's not consistent thanks to charge being terrible.

Also charge only gives ONE minon charge. Warsong gives EVERYONE^{GET IN HERE}

[PX]

Honestly Frothing is not the problem since it pretty much requires a full board to activate properly. The problem is Patron which just floods the board instantly. Maybe nerfing Warsong Commander is the way, but I love the card to death. Fuck Patron though

[Raikaria]

Patron Warrior's wincon is 90% of the time an OTK with Frothing after/during a Patron flood however.

Patron flood is cool. It's like a bigger UTH. Which needs multiple cards and at LEAST 8 mana.

OTK's are not cool.

[Suikama]

lol no you dont need a board at all to otk

you can deal over 50 damage from your hand on an empty board

[Sahgren]

one extra combo would actually make a significant difference. Right now the whole patron deck just has so much synergy and versatility. Like frothing and warsong can be used to OTK BUT you can also use them for removal vs more aggressive decks like face hunter.

Charge on the other hand is a pretty garbage card outside of otk decks, and forcing it to be included hurts the deck severely. Charge otk decks exist already with wargens but it's nowhere near as good as patron because it's not consistent thanks to charge being terrible.

Also charge only gives ONE minon charge. Warsong gives EVERYONE^{GET IN HERE}

Yes, Charge sucks. The problem isn't just that Charge exists and could reenable the combo. It's that any card that grants charge, like Charge, they produce from now on has the potential to reenable the OTK combo. I seriously doubt that people aren't going to find a card they can afford to cut from the current decks if it allows them the chance of getting 50+ damage in a single turn without any possible reaction or preempted defense. Especially if the card is halfway decent enough to stand on its own outside of the combo. And frankly, designing future cards around the fact that they might bring back a OTK combo because they don't want to nerf one card for being a problem strikes me as bad game design.

I guess they could also try nerfing Grim Patron to 3/2. That'd cut down on the number of activations they could get.

[PX]

lol no you dont need a board at all to otk

you can deal over 50 damage from your hand on an empty board

Congratulations, you found a 16 mana combo. Every single deck can do that
And my point still stands that the entire enabler to that is commander and patron. Without either of those, the Frothing does nothing, and you're punishing a card that can get enabled

[Suikama]

Yes, Charge sucks. The problem isn't just that Charge exists and could reenable the combo. It's that any card that grants charge, like Charge, they produce from now on has the potential to reenable the OTK combo. I seriously doubt that people aren't going to find a card they can afford to cut from the current decks if it allows them the chance of getting 50+ damage in a single turn without any possible reaction or preempted defense. Especially if the card is halfway decent enough to stand on its own outside of the combo. And frankly, designing future cards around the fact that they might bring back a OTK combo because they don't want to nerf one card for being a problem strikes me as bad game design.

I mean by that logic nerfing frothing is bad too because they still need to balance all future cards around not being able to snowball off charge

Congratulations, you found a 16 mana combo. Every single deck can do that
And my point still stands that the entire enabler to that is commander and patron. Without either of those, the Frothing does nothing, and you're punishing a card that can get enabled

okay so I said frothing is the problem but I also said warsong is the one that should technically be nerfed

patrons by themselves aren't op at all. if they were then you'd see them in other decks but you only ever see warrior

in any case blizzard is going to either gut the whole deck like they did to miracle (nerf patron + warsong + frothing all at the same time riot games style Kappa), or just nerf the otk and see what happens first (which imo would be smarter)

[Kyo Tanaka]

I finally decided to try out this damned game since I'm sick of all the ones I have. Sent out friend requests to everyone on the US Battlenet in hopes of having someone to play with.

Anything I ought to know?

[Suikama]

At first you get a bunch of cards really quickly and some of the initial quests give a lot of gold, but then progress slows down a lot. Then most of your gold income is restricted to daily quests, unless you learn to get really good at Arena. But that's also a grind since you need to win a lot of games for it to be really good.

[Sahgren]

I mean by that logic nerfing frothing is bad too because they still need to balance all future cards around not being able to snowball off charge

Nerfing a problem card doesn't become a bad thing just because they have to continue balancing the game so there aren't OTKs. The alternative is to nix the idea of having cards grant minions charge completely, which sounds like a wasted opportunity to me.

That or they could introduce instants. And eventually Hearthstone will transform into the decently implemented Magic the Gathering Online we've all been waiting for.

[Suikama]

Having counter cards would be interesting, but I think Blizzard wants to keep this game simple compared to other card games, and having traps/instants/whatever would require them to add a whole WOULD YOU LIKE TO ACTIVATE A CARD? HOW ABOUT NOW? WHAT ABOUT NOW system and I'm pretty sure they don't want that

[Mr. Sacchi]

make it so warsong doesnt charge him if he goes above 3 attack. Then the otk is impossible unless you can get your frothings on board to survive a turn. This also prevents later shenanigans if they make a frothing 2.0 or something

That would require dynamic checks from warsong's part which would also affect any patrons that get inner raged/cruel taskmaster'd and would need a change of wording from "When you summon a minion" to "give a minion".

Basically it would be a coding nightmare and would probably have some serious side effects that none of us can really predict since "buffing a charged minion's damage" is a super common tactic. It would, at the very least, be a mega nerf to warsong.

[Suikama]

Changing the wording pretty much would be the nerf, and I don't think it would be too hard to do since there are already situations where charge can be removed under certain circumstances like silence

[PX]

Or give it the Tundra Rhino's effect where "Your minions with 3 or less attack have Charge."