Revolutionary Girl Utena Mafia - Night 3 (Student Council Thread)

[Polaris]

I'd probably say BT's vote on the Shadoweh wagon D3 is the most unexpected and arguably the worst, because it's a spontaneous and haphazard fourth vote on (dare I say it) an easy target without any kind of deliberation that I would expect.

SB's Shadoweh poke in D2 is probably the best example of something that does not seem like a genuine town thought process. (this is something I noticed just recently in my attempt to get across what i mean about huh what's genuine thought process thingie)

huh what's Shadoweh vote could be considered the least bad since it was first, but I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else

[Polaris]

I HOPE I'M NOT CONFIRMATION BIASING, I SHOULD PROBABLY GO TO SLEEP AND REFRESH MY BRAIN SO THAT I CAN THINK BETTER

[FinnKaenbyou]

Not going to lie these last two pages were very hard to read. Mainly because the attitude and frustration in the Shadoweh/Prims exchange >.<

OK first off all with all the talk about roleblocking no-one has touched on the most obvious and effective route scum can (and almost definitely will) take tonight: roleblock Serela and kill me. I'm basically playing on the premise that I won't be around by D4. If I am still alive then all bets are off.

@Rou- You've never played with me, so what classifies as "off"? Unless you meant "off" as just generally suspicious rather than "off from regular play".

I mean that, for lack of a better phrase, your play looks decisively non-townie. You have the attitude of smug scum writing off any attempt people make to accuse you. Stuff like your 'whatever, this is just gut' line feels a little like scum bragging 'HA, you can't pin anything on me!'
Secondly your OMGUS accusation on Dan has now expanded up to a full-fledged vote. For not finding 'gutreads' dangerous, you sure are keen to go after someone who made a gutread on you.

How many people are voting me btw? 4?

Three, actually.

##Unvote
##Vote: BigBangMeteor

NOW it's four. Which I believe is L-2?

[Shadoweh]

Sorry. It's a bit frustrating to have the first response to The Great Revival be 'lol scum flail more' and anger was probably more productive then curling back into a ball and dying. I've gotten way too good at the second one lately. I hope huh what knows I still think he's the best mafia player that is secretly a bird.
Also Serela'll be dead before the day ends, won't he?

[FinnKaenbyou]

Also Serela'll be dead before the day ends, won't he?

The description in Kilga's post says he dies at the start of Day 4. But he gets to post overnight so that's a good thing?

[Kilgamayan]

Frontflipping Onto The Hood Of Your Car While It's In Motion Like a Boss Vote Count

bofh (0): Polaris
ActionDan (1): Roukan, BigBangMeteor
Shadoweh (2): Prims, Polaris, BigBangMeteor, Serious Bananas, BT
Polaris (1): Serela
BigBangMeteor (4): ActionDan, Polaris, Shadoweh, Roukan

Not voting (2): Prims, Conqueror

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. You have about 36 hours to vote.

For clarification, since there seems to be a lot of confusion around the issue. Serela will game-mechanically-die during the transition from Night 3 to Day 4. This means he will still be game-mechanically-alive during Night 3 unless something else cuts that off prematurely.

[BT]

Yeah judging by a skim of the last few pages I probably have to wait until tomorrow to make a proper post. I'll try posting something tonight but no promises. #thursdays

[Serela]

Rou:Roleblock me and kill you I was also assuming, yes, but I didn't want to give them any ideas juuust in case maybe they had a derp moment. That being said though it's kind of obvious so yeah. Hopefully they only had a one-shot roleblock (...probably not or they wouldn't have wasted it, unless Prims is cooler then expected and they knew it) or maybe we'll get lucky and lynch the roleblocker today.

anyway I have work, poof

[BigBangMeteor]

@Rou- My vote on Dan isn't an OMGUS. I don't find him scummy solely for finding me scummy. There's nothing inherently suspicious about finding someone who thinks you're scummy also scummy. If the sole reason you think it's an OMGUS is because I didn't start talking about him until after he voted for me, that's because I haven't had time to go after multiple people all the time this game. I barely have time to make a case against one person and keep pursuing that.

meh #YOLO

ActionDan, this sword isn't just for show!

[BigBangMeteor]

Polaris, why was it necessary for all the votes on Shadoweh to be bad? Like even the Prims vote you classify as "the least bad".

[ActionDan]

that looks like a one-on-one duel ability.

bring it!  your opponent is a purple monkey-mouse!

[SB]

dat dayvig

[BigBangMeteor]

No I just wanted to see how you'd react. It's a Dayvig activation line from an old SF game that I've always wanted to use. In hindsight I shouldn't have used something that SB and Prims would recognize as a fake and notify you with if either was your buddy, but oh well. I don't think either of them are here atm anyways? Also if one of them had tipped you off that it was a fake, you probably would have talked about getting dayvigged just now rather than getting into a 1v1 duel. You also seemed really eager to get into one, which is not something I'd expect from scum.

ugh I will re-evaluate my vote after lunch

real claim: I'm Shiori, nightvig, with some restrictions I don't particularly want to reveal atm.

[BigBangMeteor]

err I didn't fix that properly after getting cut by SB. He is there to tip you off, but again, if he'd done so you would have talked about getting dayvigged rather than getting into a 1v1 duel

[Shadoweh]

Nightvig, huh? To be clear, you're claiming the kill on Serela, yes?

[SB]

BBM: have you shot yet?

No point in roleblockspec imo considering that they could've been the one to take the night 1 kill or it could've hit a vanilla. Poly should check for more hooks though imo. And Dan should announce every night from now on if he doesn't want me to think he's scum (cut: dayvig thing).

First off: Dan isn't scum. I don't know why you want him to be scum so badly but he isn't. He didn't announce last night because he wanted to keep whether his 'clear' was a cop ambiguous. He also, when Polaris told us his ability, tried to hint to him that he shouldn't waste his role looking for Dan. As scum he has no reason to do that, it's more beneficial for him to just let Polaris waste his role. Trying to use a 'shitty' role to break the game is exactly the kind of thing Town Dan does. So stop lining him up for tomorrow.

So basically, he's town for using his role in a scummy way? If he was going to advocate massclaim today and invalidate his potential cop report that I don't think anyone else believed, why would he care about hiding it for a few more hours? I still think the idle because he performed a factional kill thing is totally valid thing. This is a bad defense imo.

Since you asked this specifically btw: Your votes are lazy and have the smell of scum slowness and apathy in changing them. Just look at where your votes ended up, today is the only day your opinion is going to be relevant to the game.

My slot didn't exist period till late D1. D2 is the only time I've been on unpopular wagons but I still don't see it as scummy and saying my opinions are irrelevant because they were on unpopular wagons doesn't make it meaningless.

That said her posts afterwards make me think of an angry townie? I dunno.

I actually have no idea who the third scum would be. I have a hard time seeing Shadoweh/BBM as scum/scum wagons today and have yet to read a decent case on why BBM is scummy. I've already said I don't think SB's push wasn't strong enough for him and Shadoweh to be buddies, and also I'm not sure how Rou's response to my read on SB is really incongruent with my thoughts on him? SB made a good point but didn't really do much with it and just left his vote down there.

Shadoweh wasn't really around much before today so I'm not really sure how I could've pushed it further?

Prims' godfatherspec actually kind of bugs me, it reads like mudslinging when really there wasn't a reason to think "oh there might be a godfather".

Well yeah. Out of the people on your wagon I'm the only one you're not pushing and you're going out of your way to be an ass and belittle me. Which alignment antagonizes townies?

I thought you read PToE.

I kinda want to see more from SB because I always read him as null and this game is no different. SB, is the main reason you dislike Shadoweh because she hadn't done anything at that point? Also how does your Dan read measure up when you think about the other games you've played with him?

I dislike Shadoweh because her content is lackluster (not just in quantity, but in quality too) but I'm sort of waffling on it now due to her recent posts feeling more genuine. I've never played with scum!Dan iirc so I don't really have anything to compare him to, I guess he's kind of similar but the announcer thing is seriously bugging me.

SB's Shadoweh poke in D2 is probably the best example of something that does not seem like a genuine town thought process. (this is something I noticed just recently in my attempt to get across what i mean about huh what's genuine thought process thingie)

huh what's Shadoweh vote could be considered the least bad since it was first, but I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else

Hi isn't this a complete contradiction, my vote was actually the first Shadoweh vote. Also, what happened to the start of the day where you were townreading me? I don't think you ever did anything that says why I'm suddenly scum apart from in the post I quoted, and randomly included in some scumteams that he came out with for no real reason. Not really happy with this, I need to reread Poly at some point, possibly in general.

[BigBangMeteor]

No, I didn't kill Serela. I would have claimed it if I had. I haven't shot yet, because of :reasons:. I can only guess that the mafia have some type of extra kill, considering it doesn't seem like a third party kill.

##Unvote sigh, Dan's reaction was not a scum reaction to a possibility of dying.

Voting someone atm would pretty much be solely for the sake of having a vote, because I don't have anything better atm. I'll try rereading SB, Prims, and BT I suppose.

Question to Conq- I get why you haven't liked BT's D3 actions, but why do those outweigh his D1/D2 actions if you thought he was town then?

[FinnKaenbyou]

I admit the idea of there being two kill powers in one game is extremely difficult to believe. Also the part about 'I have setbacks which I won't mention' feels like it might be setting up for excuses involving why he can't shoot whoever we ask him to. Also the whole duel thing with Dan felt a little too...theatrical to be legitimate. I don't know if anyone else gets that feeling?

The other thing I have to ask is 'why is everybody so sure this bonus kill is scum and not third party?' I'm not sure if this is a balance thing I'm not aware of, but.

Anyway if BBM is going to claim vig then I think the only reason we should let him live is if town basically tells him who to shoot tonight...although if he kills town I'm pretty sure tomorrow is LYLO with a potential third party still in the fray. This is difficult.

[ActionDan]

if he kills town with his 'vig' it's gg not lylo. 

and there is not going to be a third party whose kill is "your kill is shitty poison that makes your target able to live an extra day + use their role the next night" 

[ActionDan]

So I hear it's time for the rest of everyone to claim besides maybe conq who can claim if he wants to.

so order will be

Shadoweh claims VT again
then SB claims
then BT claims
then Prims claims.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Why that order in particular, Dan?

Not sure how I feel about the massclaim, but I suppose with the cop and the doc already outed we don't have that much to lose.

[Conqueror]

haven't read any of the posts since i was last on but i need to ask this question in light of some things:

rou: did you get an extra pm from kilga at the start of night 2?

[FinnKaenbyou]

haven't read any of the posts since i was last on but i need to ask this question in light of some things:

rou: did you get an extra pm from kilga at the start of night 2?

Yes, but I'd would rather you specified what you mean in particular before I clarify my response. Just to be safe.

[Conqueror]

rou: something that gave you an extra power for a phase. why didn't you use it then? :<

Question to Conq- I get why you haven't liked BT's D3 actions, but why do those outweigh his D1/D2 actions if you thought he was town then?

I'll be going over this a bit later when I have more time, but the tl;dr version is that BT is a skilled enough player that I don't think any of his D1/D2 play would be amiss from him as scum. something something about not looking for townreads while i was driving, ill make this more coherent later

re: third party kill vs scum kill; it's possible, but we've already had a third party flipped so i think it's more likely to be a scum power?

[BigBangMeteor]

I don't want to mention the drawback because it's very easily exploitable by the mafia if they know what it is.

The dayvig shot on Dan was a fake so I'm not sure what you mean by it being theatrical.

As I see it, there are a few different things my Vig claim could mean:

1) I am speaking truthfully.
2) I'm a mafia member with no ability to kill someone.
3) I'm a mafia member with the ability to kill someone.

3 can be ruled out I think because the mafia having that much extra killing power would be kind of OP. As to whether it's 1 or 2 will be pretty obvious after tonight.

[Conqueror]

Except, three makes sense if you're a mafia one-shot delayed vig who shot Serela?

[Conqueror]

If you didn't vig Serela, then who killed Serela? A third party? A mafia extra kill in a game with a town vig?

[Conqueror]

actually yeah the fact that kilga didn't announce *YLO makes BBM confirmed scum.

Unless we're going to assume another third party, 3 scum 6 town one Serela makes sense.
assume town mislynches today, and BBM!town misvigs tonight, then tomorrow there would presumably be 3 scum 3 town, meaning gg. So today should be MYLO if BBM is telling the truth about being a town vig.

But to make this simple

@Kilga, will *YLO be announced?

[BigBangMeteor]

Except I specifically claimed that I didn't kill Serela. I claimed another method of killing someone. If I'm the mafian who killed Serela, then I'll have no way to prove this extra method.

We know *YLO is announced from Raikaria's role PM.

[FinnKaenbyou]

rou: something that gave you an extra power for a phase. why didn't you use it then? :<

OK that's good enough that I'm willing to specify.

Right so. In short, on Night 2 I received a PM from Kilga saying I had magically been given the power to talk during the night phase. However, I decided not to use the power for several reasons:
-Being the only guy who could talk at night seemed like an easy way to get noticed by scum. Given I was a PR, this was bad.
-I had a mildly paranoid theory that maybe this had something to do with the announcement on D2 - i.e. if I kept quiet my alignment would be revealed. This was not the case.
-Much of what I would have said N2 if I DID speak was LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF ALICE, but I hadn't got my investigation back yet. I figured on the off chance that he returned town (which he did) being so against him and then abruptly pulling a 180 would look awful for everyone involved and pretty much force me to come out. (This is effectively what happened anyway, so yeah. |:)

In any case unless there's a counterclaim from nowhere I'm pretty sure this means you're claiming to be the Night Whisperer or whatever role this is.

@BBM: Theatrical as in both of you played it up a bit, and Dan reading it as a duel seemed a bit unusual on both your parts.
In response to your claim that scum getting an extra kill is unfair, let's look at the numbers.

Assuming Dormio was the only third party, the split is 11 Town/1 ThirdParty/3 Scum.
To achieve victory in this instance, assuming the scumkill goes off without a hitch every night and Third Party does not fulfill their win condition, scum would need to achieve 5 successful mislynches. With an extra delayed kill like the one on Serela this number drops down to 4...but then it goes up to 5 AGAIN considering that Rai can now come back from the dead before a LYLO day to add an extra vote.

So yeah balance wise I think this is exactly the sort of thing scum would get to even the playing field a bit.