League of Legends Thread XIII: http://www.twitch.tv/saltyteemo

[Raikaria]

Except Sivir's passive gives more movespeed. So surely if movespeed was the reason; Sivir would be the pick.

And also it doesn't matter how fast you move; a slow is still gonna let you get stuck to; and slows are more than common enough that removing one is unlikly to remove everything the enemy team has. Hell; Randuin's Omen is a great example of that; as are AoE slows like Void Ooze and Mega Adheshive.

There's a reason why Flash is standard and not Ghost. You are vastly over-estimating the power of raw movement speed.

[Ryuu]

sivir doesn't have a low cd dash and an ult that lets her auto while moving that also resets said dash

[Raikaria]

sivir doesn't have a low cd dash and an ult that lets her auto while moving that also resets said dash

The Culling is also regarded as among the worst ultimates in the entire game and is often outright ingored outside of poke or an attempt to finish off a longer-range target. Hence why Culling resets are hardly reliable.

And an 80% AS boost on Richochet + Sivir's passive + the MS boost from On the Hunt and Sivir may as well be attacking while moving.

Honestly I'd say the best thing about Relentless is that it removes slows; not the dash. If you dashed 475 with a slow on you in most cases you would still be caught up with. But then again; with the Sivir argument: Spellsheild.

That said Sivir *is* broken right now. It makes sense that she's pretty much better.

[Ryuu]

i've never seen anyone who actually understands how the culling works call it bad

the ability to auto attack and simultaneously move is probably one of the strongest things in the game

[Raikaria]

i've never seen anyone who actually understands how the culling works call it bad

the ability to auto attack and simultaneously move is probably one of the strongest things in the game

Except you're not auto-attacking. It's a spell. Auto-attacks carry on-hit effects and can critical strike; and apply lifesteal. Auto-attacks are not blocked by other units. Auto-attacks are dodged by Jax's Counterstrke and parried by Fiora's Riposte. The Culling is in no way an auto-attack. It does none of these things. Clearly you are the one who does not understand how the ability works if you are calling it auto-attacking.

And the ability is easily evaded by simply moving to either side; taking a mere fraction of the damage; if any at all due to the projectile flight time. Meanwhile Lucian has to be careful of where he is going to line up damage because he is paper. And all during this time he is not casting his other abilities and auto-attacking to make use of his passive and Trinity Force and his burst.

And it's a channel so any hard C.C stops it.

It's OK for backpedaling; but a smart enemy will just make you pop the ult in a defensive manner like that; then step to the side and laugh as you zoned yourself. Or continue to close the gap by moving in a diagonal fashion as Lucian attempts to line up the shots but can't due to the flight time. It's low C/D is also good for seige senarios; but it is easily evaded.

Frankly the main use I've seen for it in high level play is mowing down a creep wave so you might get 1 or 2 extra shots on a tower in a seige. Great Ultimate right there.

[Ryuu]

you sure do take every word said very literally. it's not a literal auto attack, no, but the purpose of the spell is to allow him to "auto attack" while moving. that's literally the phraseology used by the person who designed him, and other members of riot staff in red posts. it's meant to allow him to simulate auto attacking while remaining fully mobile, allowing him to kite and chase with greater ease

also the main use i've seen for it in high level play is kiting the shit out of me(lol i can say this now) with his massive free movespeed. i have to literally use all of my abilities to keep up with him and kill him before he can hurt anyone else. if he gets any peel from his team it's basically game over for me unless my ult is up. conversely, i never have this problem with sivir. sticking to sivir is pretty easy, it's just a matter of popping her stupid spellshield with the right ability. unlike lucian that can chunk a ton of health and then run away while doing damage

[Mr. Sacchi]

Considering how much I love using Lucian, I can say with confidence I'm one of the few people who know that, though The Culling IS a bad ultimate, it is, by no means, useless.

The sheer kiting potential it gives you by using it right after a W... Hell, I've escaped scot free after a warwick and a fricking ZAC jumped me. A suppression and TWO knockups, with further slows nullified by my E and further damage nullified by sheer kiting thanks to PD, Trinity and W procs with my ultimate.

Sure, I only survived the initial burst because BC + Trinity makes me a lot tankier than most ADCs but you get the idea.

Sure, movement speed isn't ABSOLUTELY FENOMENAL and the ABSURDLY GODLY STAT, but it *is* one of the strongest stats in the game to EVER have. Why do you think boots are such important items, and champions with high movspd are so few? Lucian even has 330 movspd, 5 points higher than pretty much any ADC not called Vayne (I seriously cannot remember another adc with 330 base movspd besides Vayne) and he can easily get 370 from his W without any movspd items, that's more than Vayne can say until level 6!

He's by far one of the most mobile ADCs out there, give me just a little bit of peel, I barely require any peel whatsoever when playing him, especially when my opponents rely on slows. I seriously went 20/0/21 on an hour-long match once because the opposing team had nothing but slows + Zac (And aside from the two short knockups, ZAC pretty much only has slows). I kept myself alive purely by dodging with high movspd, removing any slows they put on me and kiting the shit out of them with WR.

And raikaria, you keep saying that Lucian will always miss his ultimate and whatnot, you seem to forget that most bruisers require to be POINT-BLANK to hit him. Unless you're one of the guys playing at Saltyteemo, I think it's pretty hard to miss a point-blank The Culling, and the damage on a full-hit The Culling (By no means hard to get when your opponent HAS to chase you down) is quite scary. I took over 50% of ZAC's health with a full channel of The Culling in the aforementioned hour-long game.

[Ryuu]

as a support/jungle main, i fucking hate w + the culling*

*edit: unless i'm vi, then i don't care

[Raikaria]

Well; besides the Lucian point [My point isn't even his R. It's he's picked for his Q/W/Passive burst and tower pushing :/]; I just went 5/0/17 in a ranked game as Seju.

Feels good stealing a jungle Riven's red buff as Sejuani because she tried to gank bot when the buffs spawned.

I still got boar skills.

[Ryuu]

lucian is only picked for those things in regards to lane, and it's very true that he's good at those things

but compared to other champions good at bursting and bullying lane, he's also exceptionally damaging and slippery in team fights

those two things together is what makes him such a top pick rn

[Aba Matindesu!]

Everyone else just sheeps a scene that dosen't even apply that well to SoloQ cause 2v1 lanes and such. [This annoys me so much when people say 'THIS ISN'T VIABLE BECAUSE PRO'S DON'T USE IT IN TOURNEYS.' or 'YOU'RE NOT PICKING WHAT XYZ USED YOU TROLL' when the pro scene is an entirely different beast to SoloQ.]

tbqh this is what i sometimes imagined you did, but apparently it isn't, so... sorry :V

i'm surprised there hasn't been a jinx comparison thus far but that's probably because we're looking at easier dashes, isn't it

[theshirn]

PATCH NOTES

[Suikama]

...at this point i think sona might be the only champion in the game that still has an increasing mana cost ult >_>

i'm pretty sure that's she's the only support this is true for since pretty much every single other support recently got their ults reduced to 100 flat mana

[Cadmas]

Fid fear and rammus taunt nerfed. I'd never though I'd see the day.

[Suikama]

rip fiddle support

long live annie

[EyeMtheStron9est]

https://riftch.at/

Try using this if you can to make your team be able to communicate in random games.

[Raikaria]

tbqh this is what i sometimes imagined you did, but apparently it isn't, so... sorry :V

No I'm always complaining why isn't XYZ picked at high levels? Like Maokai.

Only time I complain about what other people pick is dumb stuff like AP Shaco toplane that just doesn't work. Or picking a 4th physical damage-dealer against a team with Taric giving us only a Lulu for magic damage.

[Ryuu]

No I'm always complaining why isn't XYZ picked at high levels? Like Maokai.

but then when someone tries to explain why you just go "no no no no no" so

[Raikaria]

That's the point of complaining.

And half the time I'm right and a champion does become popular anyway. Like I called Kayle OP long before she actually picked up.

[EyeMtheStron9est]

I didn't read nearly all of it but Lucian was considered 'bad' because no one knew how to use him overall.
Many people would play him like a truly standard ADC which preferred to stand in fights and such.

Now people for whatever reason are staying farther back and only going in with the double hit proc or spacing with ultimate.
His ultimate truly does great things if you aren't bad. Many times it has won fights or dealt a large helping into that because of 'free auto attacking' for so many hits compared to the enemy adc who can't come close due to an assasin.

This is largely amplified by Rengar being picked frequently.
Lucian can space out the enemy easier than almost every other ADC while the other options are almost required to be in Rengar's range.
Also Lucian can hit Rengar with the ultimate too.
So Lucian beats Rengar often and is actually wonderful with him as well.

I don't watch LCS or any other tournament or big name streams but that's a great thing that has changed in the top spectrum of ranked.
Of course as always "pros did it so now it's good" applies to everything so a LARGE margin of games involve Rengar bans or picks for whatever reason.

Which I'm thrilled about due to it being a 100% free lane for Rumble.


Forgive the way I'm writing this or if it doesn't make any sense. Feel free to ask for clarification because I know how you guys are being nitpicky often over dumb shit like calling Lucian's ult an auto attack when it is in essence close to the same dps.

[Aba Matindesu!]

people are still bashing on ap skarner toplane for whatever reason

i tried it in ranked a long while back and got counterpicked by jax and my team was like "should've dodged when i saw ap skarner top"... clearly that's not the case though since i've had a fair bit of success with him in most of my matches

so now i ask, is there a way to not lose lane to jax as skarner or do i have to reserve him for 4th/last pick?

[Cadmas]

If you're fighting a jax there basically isn't a way to not lose other than be better.

[Ryuu]

or play someone who does damage primarily via spells and not auto attacks lol

[Mr. Sacchi]

Somebody who can kite really well and gives zero fucks about stuns with a low cd escape is also good.

So pretty much, pick lucian. :V

[Aba Matindesu!]

If you're fighting a jax there basically isn't a way to not lose other than be better.

yeah being of equal skill just didn't cut it for me ;_; i crie evrytim

or play someone who does damage primarily via spells and not auto attacks lol

ap skarner

Somebody who can kite really well and gives zero fucks about stuns with a low cd escape is also good.

So pretty much, dodge. :V

FTFY I don't own Lucian... yet. :C

Well, all of this was a fairly long time ago anyway so I guess things have changed since then (namely Jax getting better and Skarner's kit rework remaining in development hell even after pre-S4 hit). Do I really have no recourse but to get better sit here crying about the RP I spent on him?

[Cadmas]

Guan Yu skin for Tryndamere. Oh man.

[hyorinryu]

What about Rumble? He does that stuff too. I think Kennen should be okay as well.

[Ryuu]

ap skarner should poop on jax what with the forever slows and most damage not being from auto attacks

but then again he doesn't get the effect from his passive if jax is counterstriking iirc so hm

[Aba Matindesu!]

there's also the fact that skarner basically needs to stick to jax for the permaslows and god forbid anyone should ever stick to jax

[Garlyle]

Support Zilean during the league prelims.  Actual support Zilean in highest level competitive.  Being played against Dignitas (who got absolutely trashed).

Damn.

EDIT: Zilean Ban afterwards ahahahahaahaha oh my goooood