Author Topic: Defence of the Ancients 2: Dreams go in, salt comes out. You can't explain that. (Read 105952 times)

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #60 on:** October 23, 2013, 09:43:35 PM »

Yes, 6.79 has been live for a few days now.

Namago · « **Reply #61 on:** October 24, 2013, 04:30:51 AM »

Quote from: Amra on October 23, 2013, 05:57:30 PM

Orb walking also puts you in the same ranges (ie past the creep wave, if you're making use of the fact it doesn't draw aggro) and curse/word have much longer effective ranges. In addition, pulling aggro from creeps is not always a bad thing; in fact, in many dual lane situations, pulling the lane backwards a tad is beneficial.

For one level of curse, you deal around 15 damage and 8 mana loss at the very least plus whatever mana they burned to get the curse off, or you do around 100 damage and 48 mana burn, or some interim, for 75 mana. Conversely, one level in Glaives adds around 10-12 damage per 15 mana, which results in around 50-60 pure damage for the same mana cost as a level one curse of the silent.

The differences in damage per mana cost increase severely as you level curse in comparison to glaive, as each level only adds 20 mana to the cost for +15 damage and +8 mana drain per second per level. Curse also features 550 (800 cast range, 350 radius) more range than your autoattacks, and is arguably safer than orb walking. If you're in a mid situation, forcing the opponent to cast a spell to get rid of curse or otherwise take damage is highly advantageous. I won't argue the smoke ganks, but those don't occur in pubs until far after the leveling issue is moot and silencer isn't picked in pros. I'm not arguing that orb walking is cool beans, but math wise you're generally going to get more out of levels in Curse now that you don't need glaives for int steal.

If you put it on a damage to mana cost perspective, it makes sense, but losing so much utility for one point isn't worth it. Silencer has been picked in competitive with very good stats lately, with people like Vanskor and Smile playing it with very good win rates http://www.datdota.com/hero.php?q=Silencer. Vanskor in particular doesn't skill curse in the first few levels, he goes for a glaives/last word build, even when playing as a support in an offensive trilane. I have played with him before and I can give him credit for being a great support player. I'm not saying that you should put no points in curse, the ability can be quite useful, and I would personally max it in most lineups versus glaives, but some players still consider it trash.

Amraphenson · « **Reply #62 on:** October 24, 2013, 05:09:43 AM »

He's been played in one game as of 6.79, I wouldn't use pro games as a gauge until there are a bunch more. It was a win by Vanskor though. One point in glaives was the norm before 6.79 since you wanted the int steal. I won't argue that you get glaives pre 6.79 but the whole point of the argument is that now you don't need to because of 6.79.

trancehime · « **Reply #63 on:** October 24, 2013, 06:22:15 AM »

Quote from: Amra on October 24, 2013, 05:09:43 AM

He's been played in one game as of 6.79, I wouldn't use pro games as a gauge until there are a bunch more. It was a win by Vanskor though. One point in glaives was the norm before 6.79 since you wanted the int steal. I won't argue that you get glaives pre 6.79 but the whole point of the argument is that now you don't need to because of 6.79.

if you actually saw the game though EMPIRE won that match because PR ran heroes that got absolutely maimed by Silencer, so honestly that particular game isn't a good indicator

Bardiche · « **Reply #64 on:** October 24, 2013, 08:39:52 PM »

>Everyone still debating an off-hand comment I made
I like the harass Curse of the Silent provides and like to build into full support mode first. Everyone else can get last hits and shit. So that's why I get Glaives late.

ALSO

NYX ASSASSIN IS EASY MODE HERO, or, How I Counter-Picked And Loved OD.

27/0/17.

I felt so pro.

helvetica · « **Reply #65 on:** October 25, 2013, 04:05:06 AM »

http://dotabuff.com/matches/357703075

Decent clockwerk run, and of course I didn't stream/record it so no record