Mirai Nikki Mafia (Day 5 LYLO)

[Bardiche]

Anyway the reason I think BT is scum is because in this post he claims to be venting about being a protective role often. His first post in this thread is actually something about the OP, and then a "furious confirmation", but no venting at all about being a protective role often.

Therefore, I submit that BT must have vented about it but somewhere else, in a private area, and he just slipped and did not fact-check his actual first post. (He does not, in fact, rant about it in the beginning of the game at all, so.)

This logic is shaky however. He could've ranted about it in the QT, at which point I wonder why he would claim so early. Conq, please confirm whether BT vented about being a protective role often in your QT.

So, further reading. Logic in this post, under point 2), relies on BT being a one-man scum-team. He is not. Like I said, it is also a convenient excuse for scum to make. "That would've been a bad target for me," quoth they. Ironically, this post should actually have pointed out how I could not be scum: It'd propose scum would have left a Town Jailer alive despite Kilga mimicking him N1 and, thus, revealing his role to any theoretical scumteams I had. Like seriously guys.

Further points of interest are this post where he decides Conq is Scum because Serela has a Townread on Dormio. Dormio did not prove his role (faulty logic). The rest isn't arguing on how I am scum but how Conq is scum.

Basically if you condense the paragraph and take out the fluff, it reads as:

"Bard is Scum.
Dormio is Town because Serela Townreads him.
Therefore, Conqueror is Scum."

Basically, BT set it up so that there is no scenario in which Dormio should be lynched, and we have already demonstrated that Dormio was lying about his role.

The reason I would not immediately say BT is scum is the way Dormio entered the QTs Conq made...

Conqueror, please shed clarity:

How does your power work exactly? Multiple QTs or one collective QT?
Did Dormio invade any of them at any point, and if so, at what points did he do so? Did you invite him ever?
If you did not invite him, has he stayed in the QT for longer than a day?

Serela.

You are a Mason. You have a Mason QT on top of Conq's QT.
Did Dormio at any point enter your Mason QT? At what point was that? For how long has he been in that QT?

[Serela]

Bard's case on BT is something I actually -can- get behind. Partially because I have like literally no reason to think Conq is scum apart from not being dead.

The point on the venting is totally silly, though, his "furious confirmation" can pretty much qualify. Thinking otherwise I'm pretty sure is just a PoV difference on the matter, which in this case doesn't amount to much

Dormio entered my QT at the end of n2 and remained until the end of n3. He was originally kicked out at the end of d3 but he persuaded Shadoweh to let him back in. Then we both moved to the Conq QT, which he eventually said we because we were masons and share everything, hence when I joined he was brought along. It seems silly but I could just account that as Shadoweh shenanigans.

[Bardiche]

Why do I still bother?

The point on the venting is totally silly, though, his "furious confirmation" can pretty much qualify.

The argument is psychological. The human mind is exceptionally good at remembering and exceptionally good at forgetting. If BT states that he "vented about being a protective role 50% of the time or so", then it must mean he absolutely remembers having done so somewhere. "Furious confirmation" isn't equal, because it doesn't point one way or the other, does not consider odds, and venting is not necessarily fury. Therefore, considering the basis of the human mind, it is likely BT both remembered his action and simultaneously forgot the exact instance of where it happened: This is because the human memory is more prone to remembering actions and the feelings connected to it than it does locations, which are often of lesser importance.

Therefore, deriving from that.

BT is correct in that he must have vented about it. He must have actually done so, and slipped up in his post.
He misremembered the location of doing so, however.

Dormio entered my QT at the end of n2 and remained until the end of n3. He was originally kicked out at the end of d3 but he persuaded Shadoweh to let him back in. Then we both moved to the Conq QT, which he eventually said we because we were masons and share everything, hence when I joined he was brought along. It seems silly but I could just account that as Shadoweh shenanigans.

He claimed his powers disappear after 24 hours/one gameday.
Yet he managed to keep on to his powers for longer (sharing a Mason QT is definitely a power), and even managed to invade another QT (which would definitely count as a power because it interferes with Conqueror's power).
Yet rather than wonder if he might be lying about being a Universal Back-up, you assumed Shadoweh was just being silly by letting Dormio's Mason power last infinitely rather than the One Day stipulation for the other powers, as he claimed.

And that Bard was lying because he knew BT and Conq's roles and it would be much more likely he was a Rolec?op than actually what he claimed.

Oooo... kay... This is why confining discussion to a singular QT is a horrible idea.

Conq I still need your answers to determine if you are scum or not.

[Bardiche]

He was originally kicked out at the end of d3 but he persuaded Shadoweh to let him back in.

Can you tell me who "kicked him out"? Did he claim that? Or did Shadoweh say that? (I'm curious how anyone can be kicked out of a QT as QuickTopic did not have that function last I checked.)

[Serela]

50% of the time is how often he's a protective role, not how often he's venting.

And I still think that regardless of which alignment he is he most likely means his confirmation post. You're going logic a bit too hard on something emotion-based! (It's okay though because I don't disagree with the rest of the case)

Dormio's powers last one game-day, as in the duration of day 3, for example. I claimed for him, and any discrepencies are purely from me being stupid. When he claimed to me he said they wore off at the end of the next night phase or something. At one point I said 24 hours because I was not thinking, and that's entirely my fault (It wasn't me being lazy because that doesn't take any effort to type, it's just a flubup)

Conq has one big party QT and not multiple, which I thought I'd made clear by now, but clarification is always good in any case! Dormio did not leave after 24 hours, which is indeed actually weird, as is how he even got in there. Cong invited ME, and then dormio appeared because ?

Uh I mean one game day, not 24 hours, I already did it again. >:T

Apologies if you really wanted Conq to answer himself D: These should be perfectly fine for me to answer because I can see the discussion occuring in the QT before I had arrived, aka him saying he's bringing me into the QT that night. (and of course I can tell it's all in the same QT) It's more or less all set in stone already and there's more or less no way Conq's answers could differ from my relaying the information, apart from it being way slower.

Cut:Shadoweh stated that he was no longer allowed to post in the QT. She then retracted it. It was by her, so it wasn't Dormio lies.

[Serela]

And that Bard was lying because he knew BT and Conq's roles and it would be much more likely he was a Rolec?op than actually what he claimed.

huh I never did this D: I DID mention your power was similar to a rolecop but it was just an observation and not actually related to me thinking you're scum, apart from not conflicting with it.

I also had retracted the "why did he guess universal backup immediately" thing because I noticed Dormio (attempting) to type it after I read it a few extra times

[Bardiche]

Apologies if you really wanted Conq to answer himself D:

No it's cool, you regurgitating what Conqueror told you is cools, this way Scum!Conqueror can't possibly slip up claims about his role! \o/ When has Bardiche ever had issues with people answering for other people in a Mafia game when they're not 100% mod-confirmed sure of that person's alignment?

Sigh. I give up.

Conqueror, please still answer the questions I asked.

50% of the time is how often he's a protective role,

I know that, that's what I said. He's x role 50% of the time. (according to him)

You're going logic a bit too hard on something emotion-based!

There's no "logic too hard" for something that's grounded in logic. That's how the human mind works. It's a slip. This is what we look for in criminal investigations. This is what a prosecutor looks for in criminal testimonies. Slips. If someone makes a testimony that doesn't jive with reality, it means that there is some key point they differ on and often it is time and/or place.

Stop. Filling in. Shit. For. Other. People. In Mafia it is crucial you let people explain themselves rather than fill in the holes and decide for yourselves what they actually meant. This is actually true for all communication. It's a really annoying habit of yours in Mafia to cover for everyone else. Why the hell would you interfere with someone else's scumhunting? Do you take pleasure out of aggravating me? Am I just simply not allowed to get BT's explanation for the slip? Because hey, here's Serela, giving everyone excuses so they don't have to make up their own?

Seriously? Really?

... Like, really? Do you hate me or something?

[Bardiche]

Also don't answer that. I'm pretty sure if I spoke my mind, I'd be permanently banned from the forum.

[Serela]

It's partially because I think you're nitpicking over things that are either completely insubstantial and barking up the wrong tree, or things that would require Conq to be completely drunk to mess up.

He blatantly states in the QT he was inviting me. He's then very confused when Dormio comes in too. In what world is he going to MESS UP answering he invited me? How high does someone need to be to do that? (The question on single or multiple QTs is similar) I'm staying away from the part on the BT case, though.

Anyway this discussion is getting into heated territory so I'm going to drop it all if that's okay.

[Conqueror]

ahahaha, beautiful. if this is a gambit between you and dormio well played, bardiche, but I don't think that's the case. in any case it saves me a lot of rereading.

quick answers, you people talk too much

How does your power work exactly? Multiple QTs or one collective QT?
Did Dormio invade any of them at any point, and if so, at what points did he do so? Did you invite him ever?
If you did not invite him, has he stayed in the QT for longer than a day?

1 collective QT
I only connected Serela, but Dormio came at the same time he did.
The QT is permanent until my death, so Serela BT and Dormio are all talking in there.

[Conqueror]

bt never claimed in our qt.

[Bardiche]

I only connected Serela, but Dormio came at the same time he did.

Like, exactly the same time, or some time after that?

Did Shadoweh confirm your target? Also, did you invite BT prior to or after Serela? (I think I know the answer to that one already, but this is to have all the facts straight and open right in front of us.)

if this is a gambit between you and dormio well played, bardiche

If it was, man, I think you can agree I'd deserve a win in that case.

[Serela]

Like, exactly the same time, or some time after that?

Shadoweh gave me and Dormio the link inside our Mason QT.

[Conqueror]

Like, exactly the same time, or some time after that?

Exactly at the same time, and Shadoweh announced it in the QT. BT was invited N1, BBM N2, Serela N3, SB N4.


BT, adding on to my query from earlier I want to know why you pushed Bard x me today despite a constant refrain in the later parts of the QT that Dormio is scum.

If it was, man, I think you can agree I'd deserve a win in that case.

I've seen crazier gambits that have lost! Although why did you automatically assume both your and Dormio's role couldn't exist in the game? One's a dead role backup, one's a live role backup. Also, what was your N4 action since you never claimed it iirc?

[Conqueror]

dammit serela stop stealing my thunder

[Conqueror]

ohh nvm I see you copy a power one night and use it the next.

[Bardiche]

Actually, the above is no longer necessary. It's really simple by this point.

I think Conq invited BT before Dormio. Then Dormio came some time after it was confirmed Serela had access to the new QT.

If Dormio flips as a Scum role involving ganking QTs or otherwise intercepting communication, BT ratted out Conq's QT and is scum with Dormio. This is why BT presented a case of Bard + Conq scum.

If Dormio flips as a Scum WITHOUT a role that involves ganking QTs or otherwise, then Conqueror is Scum who gave Dormio the QT information.

I think it's extremely unlikely Conqueror is Scum, as I caught his role as inviting people into his QT and it makes no explanation for intercepting Serela's QT. It'd also be pointless, as opposed to QT-ganker Scum seeing an opportunity to use their role and using it. (It helps that the target is easily eased into.)

I therefore propose the last scum is BT. There is no way both Serela and I will survive to Day 6, as Serela is hard-confirmed Town, and I should be semi-confirmed Town due to Dormio counter-claim to me and turning this into an unnecessary 1v1. As Kiro would say, "This is Bard, it could be a gambit", but I highly doubt a Scum!Conq and/or Scum!BT would prefer my company over Serela's to pull that argument... so.

Therefore I Predict I will die tonight, with Serela having to pick between Conq and BT. And BT is the pick that nails in the coffin.

QED as far as I'm concerned.

##Vote: Dormio



Cut by Conq messing up the explanation I gave above. Whatever. I still doubt Conq's scum because that'd be impressive in its own way.

ohh nvm I see you copy a power one night and use it the next.

Actually N4 I checked out Serious Bananas. I derped up and had wanted to check Dormio but for some reason wrote Serious Bananas apparently. (Shadoweh confirmed I sent her SB so don't bother speculating about redirector)

I didn't think making a QT at this stage would be more useful than getting ammo to counter any fakeclaims during massclaiming stage. And I pretty much expected Serela to die because Confirmed Town due to masonry.

[Serela]

Yes this is pretty much QED. I agree with Bard's assessment.

[Bardiche]

Addendum: Serela said you discussed adding her with BT, so it's probable Dormio used his power to enter your QT at the same time you used your power to nab Serela into your QT.

Case should be solved, or at least acceptable enough to come to a verdict.

Conqueror scum makes no sense as his N1 target is demonstrably who it is claimed to be, BBM posting in QT can be looked for and there's no opportunity for Conq to have both dropped Dormio into another's QT and recruit people into his own QT.

Therefore.

BT must be scum.

[Shadoweh]

Serela x Bardiche Powerhour Votecount 5.4

My heart will die, my hesitation becoming a trigger
"Help me", I said to you, "Trust me", your shaking voice escapes out

"Shall we pray for a miracle? But tragedy is but an unending pulse"
Repeating in the darkness, Screams Pain Anger Spite
The chosen Blood Teller

Dormio (2) Mitt Sereley, Bardiche
Bardiche (1) Dormio

Not voting: Conqueror, BT

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
There are 45 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Ah well, that sucks.
I wouldn't have made that mistake had I not been very rushed to make that post.
I blame real life, but what can you do?
~@big.plays.bigger.throws indeed

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Oh yeah.
##Unvote
##Vote Dormio

[Serela]

hooray

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Also, my power role is as I claimed it, Bard.
I have none of that QT hijacking bullshit you're talking about.

[Conqueror]

Who did you really post restrict then? SB?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Why would I tell you?

[Bardiche]

Also, my power role is as I claimed it, Bard.
I have none of that QT hijacking bullshit you're talking about.

Kind of weird then but okay.

I still think your buddy is BT.

@LastScum
Kill me tonight please.
So I don't have to make up my mind tomorrow.
And be free.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Oh, actually, my PR is slightly different from what I claimed.
I convinced myself with my own fakeclaim. :derp:

[Conqueror]

So mean, Dormio.

Cut by gj.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I still think your buddy is BT.

My only buddy is the Serela I NTR'd.