Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ～ Double Dealing Character released!

[Zil]

EosD
- Graze to raise the value of bullet cancels.
- Bomb for bullet cancels.
- Bomb for point items.
- PoC without bombing when possible.

DDC
- Graze to raise the value of point items.
- Bomb for bullet cancels to raise the value of point items.
- Bomb for point items.
- PoC without bombing when possible.

-

And people truly believed Benben would overshadow the great Recliner.

[chum]

The reason I'm not sure I would compare DDC with EoSD is because in EoSD grazing is the bulk of your score while in DDC it is really minor.

[Zengeku]

And people truly believed Benben would overshadow the great Recliner.

From the moment I first laid eyes upon her, first her legs then her face, I knew that she would be the superior sister. Everyone who didn't know that are *insert random bigotty sexual-orientation remark here that neither makes sense or has an relevance here*

Also, Infinite Ultima Wave, please recline from talking about things you clearly don't know anything about alright?       

[Sage Ω (Ultima)]

We don't just PoC and graze for score in the other games.
Play more, no offense. Namely IN Lunatic and Extra.

I never said that was all you do in the other games. My point being is that DDC doesn't have EoSD scoring. There's more to it than simply getting to the POC, the multiplier is what separates the two. And like I said, grazing can play a part in the score in other games as well.
Anyway, I won't make a big deal out of it, as it's not like it is a bad thing.

If I have over 10hours of gameplay as well as another 15hours from when I had the game on another computer I think played IN enough. Especially Extra.

Also, Infinite Ultima Wave, please recline from talking about things you clearly don't know anything about alright?       

Or, how about I talk about whatever I want. Is that alright?

[Aba Matindesu!]

Soooo technically, MarisaB's nerf... isn't really a nerf. After all, why would you powerbomb during a spellcard?

(But maybe that's just me trying to bridge the gap between scoring and survival. I suppose that explains why, to this day, I've only 1cc'd normal with SakuyaA )

[Hawk]

Shining Needle Sword is just...I can't do it.  I've never been good with dagger bullets.  That's probably the only card that seems unassailable to me right now.  Are there any strategies for it or its complementary non-card prior?

Sukuna has made me afraid of final bosses again.  She's ruthless.

[BT]

Shining Needle Sword is just...I can't do it.  I've never been good with dagger bullets.  That's probably the only card that seems unassailable to me right now.  Are there any strategies for it or its complementary non-card prior?

You can memorize both of them.

Just play them a bunch.

[Formless God]

You can memorize both of them.

Are the blue knives static? I have a feeling they are but I can't really confirm it.

[BT]

I've felt that they're slightly different sometimes (a few pixels different horizontally from where you'd expected) but when that happens the following waves are always different by the same margin and, besides, the blue knives always "act" the same. The white knife streams become longer and longer and the extent of which is static. So yes you can pretty much learn how to do the spell and capture it most of the time.

I think the third nonspell is completely static by the way.

[Formless God]

I think the third nonspell is completely static by the way.

Welp, that makes for 6 static attacks. Good job on that final boss ZUN

There's more to it than simply getting to the POC, the multiplier is what separates the two.

And you get this multiplier once every 1,000 graze at the bottom of the screen, right?

I never said that was all you do in the other games.

Uh ... so we're in agreement? DDC is similar to EoSD and not any of the other games in the sense that point item collecting and grazing are all there is to scoring and there isn't an extra layer of silliness on top of it such as cherry, time, faith, magnetism, UFOs or spirits.

played IN enough.

The stuff I was talking about are all on Lunatic.

[Tengukami]

Sakuya's bomb makes use of the cherry mechanic, even awarding its own version of the "border bonus". How that's related to scoring, though, I honestly haven't paid attention. Might have no connection at all.

[Zengeku]

It's similar to a cherry border in survival respects but I wouldn't say it makes use of the cherry mechanic. It's just another temporary shield like MarisaC in SA. It's scoring uses are that you can gather items by activating it as well as gather items by breaking it again which means you can get two collections per bomb. It's quite different from the cherry system which generally wants you to not break the border as well as grazing unfocused for mad PiV gain.

From a survival perspective though, it is pretty much the same thing except you can pop it on command. 

[Tengukami]

Ah, thanks, Zengeku. Maybe I oughta use the maid more!

[FleetingGaze]

For Shining Needle Sword, if you shotgun Sukuna (you'll want to be at about 1/4 of her health bar circle) and not the bowl, you'll do significantly more damage and end the card faster. Of course, you can only do it in the beginning of the card until the silver knives start pushing you back toward the bottom, but that will be enough to make it somewhat manageable.

That was one spell I never attempted to capture until like 100 practice runs of it.

[Sage Ω (Ultima)]

And you get this multiplier once every 1,000 graze at the bottom of the screen, right?Uh ... so we're in agreement? DDC is similar to EoSD and not any of the other games in the sense that point item collecting and grazing are all there is to scoring and there isn't an extra layer of silliness on top of it such as cherry, time, faith, magnetism, UFOs or spirits.The stuff I was talking about are all on Lunatic.

Yes, but my point was while they're similar POC multiplier is DDC's gimmick, it's not as glaring as trance, or cherry, ect... Your post made me think you were saying that it was the same.

[Fumi]

For Shining Needle Sword, if you shotgun Sukuna (you'll want to be at about 1/4 of her health bar circle) and not the bowl, you'll do significantly more damage and end the card faster.

Wait, the bowl does not have a hitbox like Sukuna where you will die if you touch it? 

[BT]

It isn't a solid hitbox no. For shots like SakuyaB it's EXTREMELY advantageous to shotgun her (unfocused, so that all of the knives hit the bowl) for as long as possible, especially for ending the first stage of the second nonspell before it gets dense.

[FleetingGaze]

Wait, the bowl does not have a hitbox like Sukuna where you will die if you touch it? 

The bowl has no hitbox. Go crazy inside it. However, Sukuna still has her hitbox, so don't get too wild. The fact that you can share..."bowlspace" with her makes SakuyaA murderous against her, because the focused knives will instantly tack themselves on it instead of the delay it usually has. ReimuA can also shove the gohei in her face for good damage as well, and MarisaA...well, you couldn't ask for a better shotgun opportunity. Even if the shottype doesn't rely on shotgunning, you'll do noticeably greater damage by getting up close and personal.

[touhoumaniac]

Even if the shottype doesn't rely on shotgunning, you'll do noticeably greater damage by getting up close and personal.

I did some testing.
Final spell bonus with SakuyaB:
*Unfocused inside bowl most of the time 14,511,300
*Focused shot 12,908,760

[FleetingGaze]

I did some testing.

The best part about that is that she can do it even faster. Though you won't get many times to pull off getting right in her face, the times you do certainly count for something.
*Shotgunning Sukuna. 14,942,820

As further proof of better damage, I have run a test with MarisaA.
*Shotgunning Sukuna (15,697,980)
*Shotgunning Bowl (14,721,840)

All of the bowl-based spellcards and noncards can be made slightly easier by getting close.

[Karisa]

I'm not sure the 3rd spell would be easier by approaching the bowl. Even on Easy, where there aren't many small knives, I find that streaming the large knives at close range forces you to the side, so you're not always under the bowl. (If you have a replay that shows otherwise, could you upload it?)

It's definitely useful for the final spell and 2nd nonspell though.

Interesting how you can actually go that far into the bowl. Assuming it can be done reliably for the final spell, it'd gain about a million (every million counts) over my current SakuyaB score, and 2 million for my MarisaA score...

[FleetingGaze]

(If you have a replay that shows otherwise, could you upload it?)

Challenge accepted. I offer two sets of data.
MarisaB
* MarisaB without initial shotgun. 17,023,180
* MarisaB with initial shotgun. 18,870,770

You can't completely hog her bowl on the third card, but you can get in precious seconds worth of shotgunning. THEN you get pushed back and forced to rely on however you normally capture the card. You shave off like 4-6 seconds from your regular capture...4-6 seconds that could've caused someone to get walled by the knives or clip the side of one. Notice how after MarisaB has to dodge the first wave of knives, that Sukuna's health is ~ half of her max. Instant profit as opposed to not getting close, where she has ~ 3/4 of her health.

SakuyaA
* SakuyaA without initial shotgun. 19,277,640
* SakuyaA with initial shotgun. 21,271,970

Not only does the card take almost 12 seconds, but it also makes the attack pitiful compared to the usual Lunatic version. I even broke my normal pattern of dodging the spell because of the knives slowing down the pattern. SakuyaA is just too good.

[Karisa]

Oh, so that's what you meant. I guess the initial damage is much more significant if you go inside the bowl rather than on the edge.

[FleetingGaze]

Yep. The bowl is similar to hitting Yuyuko's fan. It's probably next to impossible to actually stay in front of Sukuna for that card, so that's a task best left to TAS runs. My guess is it'd take less than ten seconds to finish it like that.

[Spectral Nexus]

So, am I right by saying that Sukuna's Bowl-Shield is her own "Hat", increased in size by the power of the Lucky Mallet? I never quite understood. 

[FleetingGaze]

From what I gathered from her background story, the bowl was used as a boat. So in the fight, she pulls a Futo, and we fight those with nice boats. Since she also happens to wear a bowl as a hat (ZUN being drunk like normal), the bowl/boat she protects herself with must be a second bowl...unless ZUN was too lazy to give her animations without her bowl hat.

[BT]

I thought it was something she enlarged with the hammer. Huh.

[Quwanti]

It seems SakuyaA's knives has quite an impact on Raiko's survival card, looking at this comparison footage.

[FleetingGaze]

It seems SakuyaA's knives has quite an impact on Raiko's survival card, looking at this comparison footage.

That's interesting. It also seems that her knives slow down the timer as well. Only catch is you have to stay focused the entire time, otherwise you lose the advantage. SakuyaA breaks yet another challenge. What will she break next?

[Zil]

I've heard that only works in spell practice.

SomeGuy712x and I have both tested it for a while, and it seems like it won't occur in full runs. Here's a replay of a run where it really seems like it should have occurred, but didn't (then I somehow captured it anyway). It's really easy to reproduce in spell practice though, once you know it exists.