Author Topic: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!  (Read 194774 times)

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #600 on: November 15, 2013, 12:01:59 PM »
i mean editing the various wiki pages on the subject, because that is very much a source of misinformation and confusion
awwww...

- I know the manga has currently 12 chapters from touhou wiki but will there be "more" (maybe a 13 - 14 chapter) is my question?
Or were you telling that manga will have only 12 in total?
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.
No, the manga won't have only 12 chapters. It's unknown how many chapters FS will have.

- What I wanted to know if there a link where I can find "all" (66 masks and not just 9 masks) of Kokoro masks and the different emotions that they represent?
There's none. We only ever see those 9  masks in game and there's no mention of what the rest of them may be/represent.

Question time: Is there an english translation patch for Touhou 13.5 and 14 yet?
Here's the thread for 13.5's translation.
I'm not aware of an english patch for 14.

Is there any detailed information regarding the 4 devas?
Nope. We only know that there's 4 of them and that Suika and Yuugi are part of the group.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 03:26:53 AM by Sagus »
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Goomba98

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #601 on: November 15, 2013, 11:16:23 PM »
Will ZUN ever come to a con that's more accessible for me? Like, near PA, and in the summer?

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #602 on: November 15, 2013, 11:18:28 PM »
There's always a possibility, of course, but only ZUN himself knows. We can't predict whether or not he'll go to any particular cons (or even if or when he'll make another trip to the US) unless he says so himself first.

Burning Love

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #603 on: November 16, 2013, 04:36:04 AM »
Can you spoiler me regarding the endings in DDC? I've already 1CC all the characters and I really need to know what happens after that.
Still waiting for a good sig. image

Tengukami

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #604 on: November 16, 2013, 01:30:12 PM »
Can you spoiler me regarding the endings in DDC? I've already 1CC all the characters and I really need to know what happens after that.

ZUN has expressly forbidden spoiling endings, but I think with some basic Google-fu you can find the results of folks who've gone ahead and done it anyway.

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ToyoRai

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #605 on: November 17, 2013, 09:12:26 AM »
Do Sanae's usage of star-shape danmaku patterns have any meaning to them, or are there just there to make her special?

Drake

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #606 on: November 17, 2013, 09:22:13 AM »
sanae is a GENKI GIRL and GENKI GIRLS always need STARS EVERYWHERE

I guess stars are a sort of wish motif, which you could attach to the whole miracles thing. But really I think it was mostly ZUN thinking of cool patterns. The star symbolism I don't think is all that prominent in japanese culture.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #607 on: November 17, 2013, 09:38:56 AM »
The pentagram is the symbol of the five elements in East Asian culture. I never even thought of it as a "star" symbol since it's blatantly a pentagram every time she uses it. Contrast the stars used by Marisa.

CyberAngel

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #608 on: November 17, 2013, 10:52:27 AM »
Could also be related to Douman Seiman, given she has a "Nine Syllable Stabs" spellcard too.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #609 on: November 17, 2013, 09:23:05 PM »
Is there any info about Sanae parents? Did she just disappear like that from the Outside World?
Also any idea if Zun is still planning to release some sort of data book about his characters height?

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #610 on: November 18, 2013, 03:26:57 AM »
Is there any info about Sanae parents?
Nope.

Did she just disappear like that from the Outside World?
No info on that either.

Also any idea if Zun is still planning to release some sort of data book about his characters height?
I imagine you're referring to his "I might officially announce an order of height if there's a demand" comment on this email. As far as I know, he hasn't said anything regarding the characters height since then. Cuc mentioned that the artist of the Three Fairies manga was the only one who asked Zun about the characters' heights, so you I suppose you can consider the heights shown in those manga to be the canon ones.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 08:21:50 AM by Sagus »
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Despite the name, it's mostly 3D models.

My fanfics.

cuc

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #611 on: November 18, 2013, 07:10:34 AM »
The pentagram symbol is not widely used "in East Asia culture" - it's invented by the great onmyouji Abe no Seimei, with five points symbolizing five elements.

The crosshatch motion is an application of the nine syllable spell which you are familiar with from any number of fiction involving Japanese magic. The nine syllables also appeared in Reimu's bombs in HRtP and SoEW. This action - 4 vertical cuts and 5 horizontal cuts - is supposed to be performed using katana, and Sanae doing it with her gohei might be ZUN's invention.

While both the nine syllables spell and the pentagram are widely used in Japanese pop culture, I don't think I've seen a fictional work other than Touhou use the crosshatch cuts yet.

However, as C.Angel said, the inspiration for putting the two symbols together in Sanae's spell cards, may originate from an even stranger place. "Seiman Douman" or "Douman Seiman", a pentagram together with a crosshatch, is a symbol from the female Ama divers. They draw it on their tools and clothes using purple ink from shells, for warding off demons. The Ama are a people with their own unique culture and religion yet to be fully understood, so it's not known how do these two symbols found their way to the Ama, although it's popularly assumed "Seiman" refers to Seimei, while "Douman" refers to Douman, Seimei's contemporary rival magician.

Wikipedia says the protagonist of the pulp novel "Teito Monogatari" (Tale of Imperial Capital) made use of Seiman Douman. This is one of ZUN's old favorites, from which he had drawn a few story ideas, so he should have known about this symbol.

Anyway, thanks to C.Angel for giving this lead!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 07:13:51 AM by cuc »
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #612 on: November 18, 2013, 07:22:46 AM »
The pentagram symbol is not widely used "in East Asia culture" - it's invented by the great onmyouji Abe no Seimei, with five points symbolizing five elements.

Well, I just got that from wikipedia, specifically the article on Wu Xing. Although now that I think about it there's a pretty big difference between a diagram and a symbol.

cuc

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #613 on: November 18, 2013, 08:44:36 AM »
Well, I just got that from wikipedia, specifically the article on Wu Xing. Although now that I think about it there's a pretty big difference between a diagram and a symbol.
Indeed, it took an inventor to turn a diagram into a magical symbol. Perhaps Abe no Seimei, like all great sorcerers in history, was primarily a master of marketing.


A deeper examination on the matter of magical borders in Touhou.

The word 結界, pronounced kekkai in Japanese, is translated from the Sanskrit "s?m?bandha" (most occurrences on the web spell it as "siimaabandha" or "simabandha"). According to this dictionary, "s?m?" means "border", and "bandha" means "tying", with dozens of extended meanings such as "combining" and "arrangement". 結界, then, is a direct translation of this word, 結 = "tying" and 界 = "border".

In fact, "bandha" is etymologically from the same root as the English words "bind", "band", "bond", "bend" and "bound".

The best source I've found on 結界 in Buddhism is a Chinese article.

Quote from: Rough summary
1. Areas delineated to ensure monks do not break moral taboos in everyday life. For example, cooking food at places of residency is forbidden, and must be done in a designated area.

2. Area of the temple.

The following meanings are mostly used in Japan:
3. Areas delineated by esoteric schools for training, which offers protection against demons, Almost the entirety of Japan's Mt. Koyasan and Mt. Hiei are this type of kekkai.

4. Areas delineated by Zen school for training.

5. Areas where taboos such as women, meat food, spicy food etc. are not allowed to enter, often marked by boundary stones.

By the way, the English wikipedia article currently corresponding to kekkai is about boundary stones in Thai temples. Kekkai also has other expanded meanings in Japanese, but they are irrelevant to this discussion.

If you are familiar with religion studies, you can see that kekkai is based on the concept of creating sacred space by defining its boundaries, which is universal to all human cultures. We'll get back to this later.

As everyone knows, in Japanese pop culture, the esoteric Buddhism function of kekkai, "keeping demons out", has been greatly expanded. Now when kekkai is brought up in anime, we think of powerful supernatural barriers that can separate space into pocket dimensions. No doubt ZUN started working from this place.

(To be continued)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 02:04:19 AM by cuc »
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cuc

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #614 on: November 18, 2013, 09:28:21 AM »
In EoSD, Gensokyo was simply a hidden paradise for youkai, safeguarded by Reimu. When she set out, she was worried that if the red mist spreads to where humans live, humans would discover Gensokyo and destroy it. While the English text on the EoSD startup screen talks about "border land", it refers to Gensokyo's status as a land on the border of human civilization (EoSD manual).

In PCB, the concept of a powerful kekkai that separates Gensokyo from the outside has been established. This theme of boundary is echoed in other places: a kekkai separates Netherworld from the real world; a youkai of borders; and the Supernatural Border system.

The Supernatural Border system is written in Japanese as 森羅結界 Shinra Kekkai. 森羅 originally means "many things juxtaposed like trees in a forest". The modern Japanese mostly know it as the first part of 森羅万象 shinra-banshou, "all phenomena in the universe", i.e. "everything there is", which has become another fanciful term abused by Japanese pop culture. ZUN was mostly using it to sound awesome, as proven by his answer about its meaning:
Quote
何故森羅結界かというと、辺りは冬、プレイヤーの周りだけ桜を集めて春、
超自然的な境界(Spuernatural Border)になるのでこういう名前にしておきました。

About why it is Shinra Kekkai, the name comes from that the surroundings are in winter, while only the area around the player has turned into spring by the gathered sakura petals, forming a Supernatural Border.

(To be continued)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 09:42:10 AM by cuc »
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Goomba98

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #615 on: November 18, 2013, 10:08:00 PM »
Where can I see the scroll you guys made as one image with just the art?

Drake

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Prime32

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #617 on: November 19, 2013, 09:21:39 PM »
While both the nine syllables spell and the pentagram are widely used in Japanese pop culture, I don't think I've seen a fictional work other than Touhou use the crosshatch cuts yet.
Super Robot Wars seems to like them.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rBW3kzy7WA&t=4m
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc2lwQyftB8&t=50s (not the right number but still)

EDIT: They show up in Tokyo Ravens ep7

[Kekkai]
I guess you could call it a "sanctuary" (in both meanings of the word), though I've never heard that term used in relation to it.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 10:35:33 PM by Prime32 »

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #618 on: November 21, 2013, 04:11:22 AM »
So, about the moon. There's the fake moon that you and I see out the window, the "scientific moon". There's the real one that has the Lunar Capital, with oceans and peaches. But in Imperishable Night, Eirin swapped out the true moon with another fake moon...by sealing the earth? Except the moon was fake all along because the real one would drive everyone mad? ...How does the moon really work in Touhou?

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #619 on: November 21, 2013, 10:29:52 AM »
It is more likely that Eirin swapped the true moon, as in the Lunar Capital one.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #620 on: November 21, 2013, 03:52:09 PM »
My understanding is that the Lunar Capital and our scientific moon is exactly the same, just in different dimensions. Lunar Capital is basically like Gensokyo, protected inside a barrier that prevents outsiders from coming in.

In IN, Eirin didn't replace the moon. She replaced the reflection of the moon in the night sky. For an analogy, think of it as instead of looking at the night sky through the window, the window is covered by a black curtain with cardboard cutouts of moon and stars.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #621 on: November 21, 2013, 04:47:13 PM »
What Eirin did references the "Earth in a Bottle" story, which is also one of her spellcards. So it's best to think of it as her surrounding the earth with a large barrier that has a false moon painted on it (as the above poster mentioned). The real moon is still out there, but we can't reach it from earth. And yes, the real moon is the same one that the Apollo missions landed on, it's just that the Lunar Capital is hidden by a barrier of illusion like Gensokyo that can only be reached by people who know the secret route necessary to make it reachable. Or come directly from Gensokyo liek Remilia's rocket (Which implies that they actually share a barrier? Or that their similarity makes them necessarily linked?).

Fonzi

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #622 on: November 21, 2013, 05:37:59 PM »
Or come directly from Gensokyo liek Remilia's rocket (Which implies that they actually share a barrier? Or that their similarity makes them necessarily linked?).

I think the Sumiyoshi gods that Reimu summoned might have something to do with that.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #623 on: November 21, 2013, 05:59:14 PM »
Yea, I believe it was addressed in SSiB that a normal rocket couldn't reach the Lunarian capital that way, but Remilia's could due to the gods.  Or because of that charm Eirin secretly placed on it (that Patchouli found out about, anyways).  Or both. I forget.  If I recall correctly, Eirin said it was perfect as it was for getting to the Lunar capital (thanks to the gods thing, presumably) but added the charm just in case.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #624 on: November 21, 2013, 06:13:19 PM »
There's also Yukari messing with the boundary of the real and fantastic moon.

Fonzi

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #625 on: November 21, 2013, 06:32:21 PM »
Which had nothing to do with the flight of the said rocket.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #626 on: November 21, 2013, 06:39:42 PM »
Yea, I believe it was addressed in SSiB that a normal rocket couldn't reach the Lunarian capital that way, but Remilia's could due to the gods.  Or because of that charm Eirin secretly placed on it (that Patchouli found out about, anyways).  Or both. I forget.  If I recall correctly, Eirin said it was perfect as it was for getting to the Lunar capital (thanks to the gods thing, presumably) but added the charm just in case.

They specifically said it was because it was from Gensokyo. The gods are just sailing gods that ensure a safe voyage, they have no particularly Lunar Barrier penetrating powers.

Sagus

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #627 on: November 21, 2013, 06:56:31 PM »
Which implies that they actually share a barrier? Or that their similarity makes them necessarily linked?
I'd wager it's the second, since the Hakurei barrier is much, much younger than the Lunar Capital.
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Despite the name, it's mostly 3D models.

My fanfics.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #628 on: November 22, 2013, 07:03:14 AM »
Quote
The real moon is still out there, but we can't reach it from earth.

The issue here is Kaguya's dialogue refutes that. Kaguya's dialogue seems to imply behind her is the real moon. I am not quite sure how to interpret that.
It could be that at Eientei specifically, you could see the real moon?

Quote
Kaguya: This is the true full moon. I wonder when it was that this full moon vanished from the earth, along with its power to drive people insane.
Remilia: This full moon is... Sakuya! Watch out!
Kaguya: Yes, this true full moon will drive mad any human who looks directly at it.

Quote
They specifically said it was because it was from Gensokyo. The gods are just sailing gods that ensure a safe voyage, they have no particularly Lunar Barrier penetrating powers.

I don't think that is the case. I am pretty sure it is because what Patchouli did. Patchouli's comment and Eirin's responses seem to imply that it is dependant on how the rocket is built.

Re: Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!
« Reply #629 on: November 22, 2013, 09:10:53 AM »
I don't think that is the case. I am pretty sure it is because what Patchouli did. Patchouli's comment and Eirin's responses seem to imply that it is dependant on how the rocket is built.

Those comments imply that Patchouli actually has no idea what she's doing. She doesn't even understand that it's supposed to be difficult. She built a rocket to chase after the object in the sky, no more and no less. In that sense, she did exactly the same thing NASA did, except from within Gensokyo, where their understanding of what the moon is is slightly different.

As for what the design of the rocket actually is, it's just a vessel for the three part gods of the voyage, dressed up as an outside world rocket based on pictures from a magazine and topped off with a personal touch (the bat). Absolutely no part of it is designed to pierce the Lunar barrier. It's just an object that flies towards the moon.

She did mention something about timing it to arrive on the full moon on the next few pages though, which seems incredibly more relevant to this discussion.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 09:12:46 AM by Clarste »