Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!

[snowflake247]

What's the instrument that ZUN used a lot in UFO (the one that to my musically-unaware ears sounds a bit like an accordion)?

[Drake]

Probably thinking of Reed Romance, which is a tone made of a combination of saxophones.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7011655

[Imosa]

I learned today that Prince Shotoku not only actively supported Buddhism but was pivotal in its establishment in Japan. Why would ZUN choose to use Prince Shotoku as Miko's identity rather then someone else?

Is the relation between vampires and mirrors ever brought up anywhere in canon.

[Clarste]

I learned today that Prince Shotoku not only actively supported Buddhism but was pivotal in its establishment in Japan. Why would ZUN choose to use Prince Shotoku as Miko's identity rather then someone else?

Isn't that exactly why? Even in her Touhou backstory it says she spread Buddhism as a cover because it teaches the peasants to be satisfied with their lives instead of questioning their king. The whole "joke" with Miko wouldn't even make any sense if she weren't famous for being the father of Buddhism in Japan.

[Imosa]

Isn't that exactly why? Even in her Touhou backstory it says she spread Buddhism as a cover because it teaches the peasants to be satisfied with their lives instead of questioning their king. The whole "joke" with Miko wouldn't even make any sense if she weren't famous for being the father of Buddhism in Japan.

Well, I knew she was manipulative. I thought she also actually believed it. 

Another question. Shizuha Aki paints the leaves, but wouldn't that be a fairies job, since that's a natural process? Is there something going on here? I figure she just may not be the only one painting the leaves.

[Fonzi]

Both gods and fairies have powers that can alter natural phenomena, but that doesn't mean that painting leaves should be the fairies' job. We haven't yet been introduced to any prominent or even background leaf-painting autumn fairies. Shizuha is a goddess and she can, like all gods, divide her being ad infinitum, so for her to paint all the leaves would not be anything difficult. Likewise, Kanako is a goddess of rain and wind, but we haven't seen any rain or wind fairies, though there are the tengu who manipulate the wind. Cirno is an ice fairy, but she isn't the one who makes it snow in winter, nor is she the one who is responsible for the beginning of winter.

[Clarste]

I'm pretty sure fairies don't have jobs (unless of course they get hired by kappa). Their duty to nature is merely to exist. Nature doesn't have jobs either. Stuff just... is.

[Imosa]

Both gods and fairies have powers that can alter natural phenomena, but that doesn't mean that painting leaves should be the fairies' job. We haven't yet been introduced to any prominent or even background leaf-painting autumn fairies. Shizuha is a goddess and she can, like all gods, divide her being ad infinitum, so for her to paint all the leaves would not be anything difficult. Likewise, Kanako is a goddess of rain and wind, but we haven't seen any rain or wind fairies, though there are the tengu who manipulate the wind. Cirno is an ice fairy, but she isn't the one who makes it snow in winter, nor is she the one who is responsible for the beginning of winter.

The way I understood it, fairies are natural phenomenon. So since changing the colors of the leaves is a natural process fairies would have to be involved. The more commonly known idea is called Gnome theory which says that all natural phenomenon are actually gnomes, but the concept is the same. Cirno and other fairies are just particular fairies.
I suppose its kinda of a pointless observation to make. If fairies are everything then of course fairies are responsible for things. That's like saying the atoms of the floor are holding you up.

[Sagus]

Faries are the embodiment of natural phenomenon. They represent an aspect of nature; they aren't described as being its cause.

[Starxsword]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if there is too much of a difference. Let's use Lily White as an example. She is a spring fairy, she may not necessarily cause spring, but if she is there, spring is there. In a similar case, if she does not go to a specific place, spring will not be there.

[Drake]

Er no, that's the sort of faulty relationship we want to avoid making. Lily goes where spring is and announces that it's spring, but this doesn't mean that it isn't spring if Lily doesn't show up. While Lily implies Spring, Spring does not imply Lily. On top of that, Lily does not cause Spring, but it's plausible that Spring "causes" Lily in a sense.

Especially since we're talking in the context of fairies having jobs of them to "do/make" nature, yes there is a difference.

[Sagus]

Lily's presence don't even necessarily imply Spring. We see her on PCB before Spring is returned to Gensokyo, and she's around during HM, that happened during Summer.

[CyberAngel]

There's also a fairy of rainy season in CoLA that was the cause of the prolonged rainy season around Kourindou. In general, it seems there's no uniformity among fairies in that regard. Some cause the natural phenomena, like Cirno. Some just hang around where it already exists, like Lily. Doesn't mean there are fairies for each natural phenomenon, though.

[Biakmon]

(Some cause the natural phenomena, like Cirno.) Some just hang around where it already exists, like Lily.

Cirno can do what?

- What the difference between Cirno (ice fairy) and Letty (seasonal youkai)?

- Why does Letty hate to being compared to Cirno, is it related to those lines?

L: Oh, that's a good idea. Well, that's what I'd like to say, but I manipulate the cold. Don't confuse it with manipulating cold air like a certain fairy.
A: They sound similar to me...
L: Those fairies are just minor anomalies of nature. I, on the other hand, am a great youkai that lives in nature.

What youkai use leaves as money?

[Sagus]

Cirno chills the air around her just by being there. You can get frostbitten simply by touching her. I guess that's what C. Angel meant.

Cirno is a fairy, an embodiment of nature; she represents cold air, I'd assume, considering that's what she controls with her ability. Letty is a (type of) Yuki-onna, a youkai that lives on snowy regions and freeze humans. She's not, by the way, a seasonal youkai. She isn't restricted to Winter (she appears on HM, after all), she just doesn't like being around when it's not Winter.

She doesn't like being compared to Cirno because she's stronger than her. Presumably, the difference between "manipulating cold air" and "manipulating cold" is simply the extent on how much control they have over "cold"; how much raw power they have. Cirno can freeze frogs, Letty can freeze humans. Cirno can make snow fall, Letty can make a snowstorm. Stuff like that, I assume.

'sides who the hell would like to be compared to a fairy

[CyberAngel]

Pretty much what Sagus said. Letty prefers to be out when it's already cold and makes everything even colder. Cirno is out whenever she wants but can cool down stuff only in close vicinity. Also, Cirno isn't too strong even in winter - freezing a lake was too much for her, while Letty can make whole snowstorms way worse. However, she can't just plain freeze stuff, unless you count the effects of stronger snowstorms when she's around.

[Clarste]

Cirno doesn't cause natural phenomena though. Yes, she can control cold, but it's almost by definition an unnatural cold. She tries to freeze frogs in the summer, for example. She isn't responsible for the coldness of nature in any sense at all. Cirno is an embodiment of the Misty Lake with ice powers. Sunny is an embodiment of the sun with light-bending powers. Just as Sunny doesn't make the sun rise, neither does Cirno make anything cold as a part of nature. The fact that she has powers of her own doesn't make her any less "hanging around" then Lily. If I had to state a difference between the two it would be that Cirno is connected to a geographical location (the lake) while Lily is connected to a season.

In terms of general fairy-ness, I think it would be much more accurate to think of them as a byproduct of nature than as being related to its functions. None of the fairies are necessary for nature, they just pop up whenever nature exists (which is hopefully always).

[Starxsword]

Lily goes where spring is and announces that it's spring, but this doesn't mean that it isn't spring if Lily doesn't show up. While Lily implies Spring, Spring does not imply Lily. On top of that, Lily does not cause Spring, but it's plausible that Spring "causes" Lily in a sense.

But from the 3 fairies manga that it isn't so. It is heavily implied that Spring won't arrive until Lily is there.

Lily's presence don't even necessarily imply Spring. We see her on PCB before Spring is returned to Gensokyo, and she's around during HM, that happened during Summer.

This is also true.

[Fonzi]

Lily's presence don't even necessarily imply Spring. We see her on PCB before Spring is returned to Gensokyo,

However, it was already springtime by the beginning of PCB, so Lily went ahead to announce the time, regardless of the weather. She is more like a calendar rather than a weather vane, let alone the very cause of spring. Her appearance alone doesn't mean anything, as seen in HM. She wasn't announcing the spring in her usual flurry-of-danmaku way.
Then again, almost every single Windows era character who isn't playable is a part of the background, as if just to advertise the whole series, rather than having any real reason to be there.

[Sagus]

Then again, almost every single Windows era character who isn't playable is a part of the background, as if just to advertise the whole series, rather than having any real reason to be there.

Zun's very controlling on which characters appear and with whom they appear in the mangas. I doubt he just threw them in to "advertise the series".

At any rate, the meta reason for her presence doesn't really matter. She was there, it's a canon game, and so it's canon that she appears outside of spring.

[Fonzi]

ZUN wasn't working on HM alone. There are at least a few things that go against the canon in that game, such as the ability to select the stage of Palanquin Ship or the Temple of Myouren, despite the former becoming the latter after UFO. Another one would be the Chireiden stage, despite the fact that surface-dwelling youkai aren't allowed to enter the underground.
And while Lily did appear outside of her season, she didn't do it to announce the spring. Just to watch some fights.

[Sagus]

What I meant is that, if he's controlling like that in the manga (where he also isn't working alone, you know), I really don't see him not being so in one of the games, of all things.

The Myouren Temple can probably just turn back into the ship (the wiki says it can, although it doesn't give the source for that claim), and none of the youkai of the surface that canonically go underground during this game (as in, go there during their story modes) were originally from Gensokyo (in fact, Ichirin was living there before UFO), so I'd assume that the deal doesn't apply to them. Alternatively, no one down there cares about this rule anymore ever since the events of SA (consider that underground youkai were also forbidden from going to the surface, yet Orin does so regularly now, and Yamame did it at least once, to visit the Myouren Temple).

[Fonzi]

The Myouren Temple can probably just turn back into the ship (the wiki says it can, although it doesn't give the source for that claim)

The Palanquin Ship is an MCV! Somehow I want to see some Touhou modded C&C RTS. I figured that the agreement between the surface and underground was no longer in effect at least after SA. But when you come to think of it, even Patchouli is not originally from Gensokyo, and yet, she couldn't go down there to assist Marisa directly. Or she thought she couldn't go there. Aya also moved to Gensokyo, but that was long before the barrier.
I just don't see what logical reason would bring Yuugi to Human Village or Yuuka and Medicine to the Hall of Dreams Mausoleum.  In any case, to set the topic back on track, no, I don't think the fairies should be the ones painting the leaves in autumn.

[TrueShadow]

Wait...I thought HM was in spring?

[Fonzi]

It was released in spring, but apparently takes place in summer.

[Sagus]

I just don't see what logical reason would bring Yuugi to Human Village or Yuuka and Medicine to the Hall of Dreams Mausoleum.

Suika must've said some good stuff about the alcohol of the surface, I bet.
Yuuka and Medicine, I agree with you. No clue what the hell they're doing there. Out for a stroll, maybe. I can't even tell where the thing is supposed to be; it doesn't look like it's underground, but where else would it be?

[Fonzi]

Wiki says "under Myouren Temple graveyard", but it looks like it has its own sky. That wouldn't be as surprising, considering the snow falling in Ancient City in SA.
Besides, I highly doubt that the humans in the village would have better sake than the oni.

[Clarste]

Suika must've said some good stuff about the alcohol of the surface, I bet.
Yuuka and Medicine, I agree with you. No clue what the hell they're doing there. Out for a stroll, maybe. I can't even tell where the thing is supposed to be; it doesn't look like it's underground, but where else would it be?

Yuugi talks to Marisa about why she's in the village in Marisa's ending. Basically the village is too riled up by the events of the game to notice an oni walking around. She's just there to watch.

[Sagus]

Yuugi talks to Marisa about why she's in the village in Marisa's ending. Basically the village is too riled up by the events of the game to notice an oni walking around. She's just there to watch.

Oh, so that's what she was saying in the ending. I forgot to check the translaions for them. Thanks.

[Fonzi]

Every background character is there to watch. But I can't shake the thought that some of them feel slightly out of place.