Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!

[Fonzi]

Just compare to then and now, Lunar Genso 1 and 2. In 1, "Yes, and she used that ability to bring a throng of youkai here long ago. Of course, we sent them back much worse for the wear." This happened. In Lunar Genso War 2, that did not happen.

What I am saying is not them getting punishment after they got crushed. What I am saying is that the fact that they got crushed like that is punishment. Compare it to the second war, nothing like that happened. After Remilia and co. was beaten, they were relaxing at the beach. You see Reimu complained that why weren't they punished at all?

This is different from the first Genso War, where they were taught the they won't be coming to invade the moon anytime soon lesson.

And why do you think that is so? Because the so-called Genso-Lunar war 2 was not even a war in the first place. They were 4 girls who landed on the Moon in a rocket that shattered and all they wanted was to see the capital (save Remilia maybe.) How can we compare 4 stranded humans (well, 3 and one vampire) who don't even have any ill intentions towards the Moon with a mass invasion of hundres or thousands of hostile youkai with a clear intention to conquer it? The girls in SSiB didn't even attack when they saw Yorihime and the moon rabbits, because that was never their intention.  How can you expect their punishment to be a beating as severe as that which the invading youkai have received over a millenium ago? If taken figuratively, you can also call the conclusion of the girls' adventure on the Monn in SSiB as "crushing defeat". They were given an option to go back to Earth, but instead, insisted to have a danmaku battle, which they all lost. An adequate measure to an adequate situation. The more severe the trespass, the more severe the consequences for the trespasser. These two events cannot be approached with the same level of seriousness.
But maybe I'm wrong. We didn't see the first war taking place, just characters mentioning it. It could have had the same light-hearted atmosphere to it as what we saw in SSiB, only in a larger scale. Their punishment would not have to be anything worse for them than for the 4 girls in the manga. But I suppose when you want to teach someone a lesson (I'm talking about Yukari now and her attempt to make the hostile youkai of Earth less hostile by introducing them to an "unbeatable enemy") you have to make the punishment to be a memorable one. And also a believable one. Having her army lose against mere humans would look too suspicious in the eyes of her subordinates.

And because I haven't asked anything in a while, I ask what is the belief of the majority about Yukari's true intentions behind the first Genso-Lunar war. Simple greed? Or a lesson to teach, all fitting into the grand scheme of creating a barrier around Gensokyo? Was what she told Ran about nobody ever being able beat the Lunarians true? Or a lie that she meant to spread in the minds of all youkai who'd ever get the idea of starting expansion wars on Earth?

[Drake]

Remilia was bored and wanted something to do just like the others.

Anyways, personally when I first read it over and wasn't very well-versed yet, I did interpret CiLR 5 as Yukari trying to gain something herself. But it didn't take long for me to conclude it was for the youkai's sake and to teach them a lesson. Really, the fact that she went there once before by herself and figured out the method to get back, and knew the Lunar Capital wasn't something to be easily trifled with, is enough to reason that if she was serious, she would have also done a preliminary run of an invasion and have planned better. Alternately, she didn't care about getting caught and so came back right away, or perhaps she did test the waters just to know, regardless of knowing she'd be caught. In any case, especially with the whole "she wanted to invade the Capital for fun" part at the beginning, it seems pretty easy to deduct that they were caught "on purpose". The recounting that the goal was to get an infinite energy source is also suspect, along with Yuyuko having been part of the War, among other things.

Yukari's explanation of her surprise about the Lunar Capital's defenses and the 15-day trap seems legitimate, and I doubt Yukari could have known on her first visit about the trap. I think it's likely enough that on her first real trip (that possibly even happened quite a while before), she was caught in the trap. The knowledge she gained from that trip informed and led the subsequent trips.

I think "Yukari did it" is the conclusion most people come to after reading CiLR 5, in general.

I also think that the great display of advanced technology and overwhelming display of the extent of the Watatsuki's power, along with Eirin especially, makes a pretty good argument, both actually and rhetorically (i.e. reasons why you'd write such things) that earthly youkai don't match up to them. It could have been a lie, but that's a pretty deep lie and it's already believable, so why bother taking that step. One main point of going to the moon and using the Watatsuki was to introduce an unbeatable enemy in the first place.

[Fonzi]

Based on the likelihood of Yukari having visted the Moon prior to her first invasion and getting trapped, it comes as slightly strange to me that the Lunarians would not percieve her as a potential threat in the future and would satisfy themselves just by sending her back and not thinking of a more permanent solution to her interference even after her repeated offenses against them, the G-L war 1 and 2. Did they let her live just because that's the worst punishment they can think of for her? Did they believe that her defeat would teach her not to come there again? What gave her the confidence that even if she'd provoke someone much more powerful than she is, she'd get away with it? Where did she take such certainty that they'd spare her life every time she'd end up at their mercy? What SSiB has shown us is that she has at least equal if not greater mental capacity than Lunarians, taking advantage of her previous trips. In a real war, it doesn't always matter if you're fighting agaisnt a better-armed, better trained or more numerous enemy, if you are able to plan better than them. If anything, Yukari has done them a service of showing them weak links in their defenses, some that they still haven't mananged to mend even after a thousand years (such as ways of detecting ghosts or half-ghosts). If Lunarians didn't feel threatened by anything at all, there would be no need for an institution such as the Lunar Defense Corps in the first place.

[Sagus]

Isn't the "being trapped" part just the fact that she had to wait until the next full moon to go back? It doesn't necessarily mean they had her in chains. She could've spent the entire time evading them, and they never manage to deal with her properly. Same thing during the first war, she probably went back to Earth before they could get her. And in the second one, Toyohime was considering taking her as a prisioner to the moon, but for some reason changed her mind after Yukari mentioned her suspicions that the Lunarians were responsible for placing the two thick shimenawas in the Moriya Shrine to seal in the war god Take-Minakata in there. No clue why, though.

[Drake]

That was likely blackmail of sorts. It's possible they were never supposed to meddle in earthly affairs or something, especially considering the implied impact the Lunarians were said to have had in that period.

But yeah I don't think it's necessary that Yukari was captured, the Moon is very big and she is a gap youkai. Stretching a bit, Yukari does mention that the pursuers were easily evaded when heading back to the gap; if she never actually caught the undivided attention of the Lunarians in the first visit, I can easily see her just waiting and planning for a month.

[Sagus]

That was likely blackmail of sorts. It's possible they were never supposed to meddle in earthly affairs or something, especially considering the implied impact the Lunarians were said to have had in that period.

I've thought about that possibility, but the question is, to whom would she denounce the lunarians? The Yamas? The "Higher Gods" that Zun mentioned in the SoPM interview, whatever the hell they are? I don't think the sisters are, alone, responsible for putting those shimenawas; I'd think the order came from higher up, probably from Tsukoyomi or Eirin, specially considering that, during that time, the Watatsukis weren't as high-ranked as they are now.

[Starxsword]

How can we compare 4 stranded humans (well, 3 and one vampire) who don't even have any ill intentions towards the Moon with a mass invasion of hundres or thousands of hostile youkai with a clear intention to conquer it? The girls in SSiB didn't even attack when they saw Yorihime and the moon rabbits, because that was never their intention.  How can you expect their punishment to be a beating as severe as that which the invading youkai have received over a millenium ago? If taken figuratively, you can also call the conclusion of the girls' adventure on the Monn in SSiB as "crushing defeat".

Their actual intent does not matter, it is their perceived intent that matters. While we know their intent, Yorihime doesn't. Remilia made a statement to conquer the moon. Yorihime cannot be sure if Remilia is serious or not, Yorihime doesn't know Remilia. She can only assume Remilia is being dead serious. Yet, the punishment did not fit the crime like the first invasion.

You cannot call the second invasion a "crushing defeat", as Yorihime was having trouble with the last 2 invaders. But that part is irrelevant. Whether it is a "crushing defeat" or not, the point is no implication of punishment, like the first war. There is no need for them to say, "of course, we sent them back much worse for wear.", if that doesn't mean punishment of some kind.

It doesn't necessarily mean they had her in chains. She could've spent the entire time evading them, and they never manage to deal with her properly. Same thing during the first war, she probably went back to Earth before they could get her.

I don't think she did, I think she was caught on the first war. I'm pretty sure she held a grudge against the moon, because of that, even if she says otherwise. Remilia's response to Yukari implies that Yukari still remembers that event, but shouldn't if she wasn't holding any grudges.

I did interpret CiLR 5 as Yukari trying to gain something herself. But it didn't take long for me to conclude it was for the youkai's sake and to teach them a lesson.

I also think she did it to teach youkais a lesson, but there is lots of room for interpretation here.

The recounting that the goal was to get an infinite energy source is also suspect, along with Yuyuko having been part of the War, among other things.

I don't believe Yuyuko was part of the war. She does say something like that, but I think Yuyuko just means her as a citizen of earth.

Did they let her live just because that's the worst punishment they can think of for her? Did they believe that her defeat would teach her not to come there again? What gave her the confidence that even if she'd provoke someone much more powerful than she is, she'd get away with it? Where did she take such certainty that they'd spare her life every time she'd end up at their mercy?

My guess is they were just following Eirin's orders, if everyone is caught, then that is fine. Yukari isn't nearly strong enough to scare them, so they see her as a non-threat.

And in the second one, Toyohime was considering taking her as a prisioner to the moon, but for some reason changed her mind after Yukari mentioned her suspicions that the Lunarians were responsible for placing the two thick shimenawas in the Moriya Shrine to seal in the war god Take-Minakata in there. No clue why, though.

I am checking that chapter out and I don't think that was the case. From what I see, they just left them there after they got notice that the invaders were stopped. The talk about Lord Daikoku and Takeminakata doesn't seem related to her getting released. It seemed like what was related was that Toyohime needs to go back in order to send them back to earth.

I am kind of surprised Eirin is still worried that they may not be good enough to protect the moon.

[Drake]

Their actual intent does not matter, it is their perceived intent that matters. While we know their intent, Yorihime doesn't. Remilia made a statement to conquer the moon. Yorihime cannot be sure if Remilia is serious or not, Yorihime doesn't know Remilia. She can only assume Remilia is being dead serious. Yet, the punishment did not fit the crime like the first invasion.

Er, not really. The rest of them were like "I dunno lol, why did we come here?" before Remilia decided to say so, and Yorihime knew that one of them would be that arrogant. While she was on guard, they didn't act at all like they were hostile and they clearly said that they weren't planning a rebellion. Furthermore, Yorihime knew they were the diversion for Yukari. Of course Yorihime knew they weren't seriously intending to do much of anything.

I don't think she did, I think she was caught on the first war. I'm pretty sure she held a grudge against the moon, because of that, even if she says otherwise. Remilia's response to Yukari implies that Yukari still remembers that event, but shouldn't if she wasn't holding any grudges.

Nobody besides Yukari would be immediately aware of anything besides the actual events and their outcome. Yuyuko is likely the only one in-universe who might have enough information and intellect to form a correct conclusion. Yukari is supposed to act like she has a grudge. I do think she does as well, but not because she was caught during the war.

I don't believe Yuyuko was part of the war. She does say something like that, but I think Yuyuko just means her as a citizen of earth.

Ran: 「これは紫様の命令なのですが?」 These are Lady Yukari's orders, and...
「?知っての通り。紫様は一度月の都に攻め入って敗北しています。」 ...as you know, Lady Yukari has once invaded the Lunar Capital and was defeated.
Youmu: 「藍が「知っての通り」と言ったのは、幽々子様はその出来事を生で見た事がある」 When Ran said "as you know", she was referring to Yuyuko having seen that event in-person.
It can easily be assumed that Youmu is completely accurate here, since she acts as the narrative to introduce and explain this fact that would otherwise never be mentioned. Along with Yuyuko expressing her desire to "take revenge" by stealing something (Yuyuko wanting revenge is almost silly to think about), I don't think there's any doubt.

[Fonzi]

Their actual intent does not matter, it is their perceived intent that matters. While we know their intent, Yorihime doesn't. Remilia made a statement to conquer the moon. Yorihime cannot be sure if Remilia is serious or not, Yorihime doesn't know Remilia. She can only assume Remilia is being dead serious. Yet, the punishment did not fit the crime like the first invasion.

A 4-person invasion force can hardly be taken seriously, even if they were dead serious.

You cannot call the second invasion a "crushing defeat", as Yorihime was having trouble with the last 2 invaders. But that part is irrelevant.

You're right, it's irrelevant, but Yorihime is only one Lunarian. Even if one of the Gensokyo girls wuld beat her somehow, there's still a whole army of Lunarians, so I doubt they'd get very far in conquering. "Almost won or almost lost" doesn't matter in a war or duel. Just "won" or "lost". And they lost 0 to 4.

I don't think she did, I think she was caught on the first war. I'm pretty sure she held a grudge against the moon, because of that, even if she says otherwise. Remilia's response to Yukari implies that Yukari still remembers that event, but shouldn't if she wasn't holding any grudges.

If Yukari went to the Moon with the knowledge and intention that she'd lose the war, why would she hold any grudges at all? It was her plan to lose and she did it like a boss. And just because Yukari remembers her "defeat" doesn't mean she has to be pissed about it. It was simply a memorable experience for her, because I assume she doesn't go to the Moon very often. I remember some of my old classmates from grade school, and believe it or not, it's not because I have a bone to pick with them.

I don't believe Yuyuko was part of the war. She does say something like that, but I think Yuyuko just means her as a citizen of earth.

What Drake said. Nobody really doubts that Yuyuko was involved in the first war, but her dialogue with Ran and Youmu's narration suggests she wasn't fighting in that war, just witnessed the event.

My guess is they were just following Eirin's orders, if everyone is caught, then that is fine. Yukari isn't nearly strong enough to scare them, so they see her as a non-threat.

So they considered her spy crow as a bigger threat than Yukari herself? Unlikely.

I am kind of surprised Eirin is still worried that they may not be good enough to protect the moon.

Well, they did get burglarized.

[ToyoRai]

Just a break of this tennis, are Moon Rabbits immortal or do they have a natural lifespan?.

Spoiler:

And technically the four of them went to the Moon with few Fairy Maids but all they really did was to demostrate danmaku with few Moon Rabbits, and got defeated by them

[Fonzi]

Just a break of this tennis, are Moon Rabbits immortal or do they have a natural lifespan?.

Spoiler:

And technically the four of them went to the Moon with few Fairy Maids but all they really did was to demostrate danmaku with few Moon Rabbits, and got defeated by them

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Lunar_Capital
"The moon is said to be a Pure Land similar to Higan where the impurity of life and death does not exist, and thus nothing can age or grow sick while on the moon. However, allowing either mortals or those who have drunk the Hourai Elixir to live on the moon for too long could result in it becoming tainted. Kaguya Houraisan's manipulation of eternity allowed her to recreate this environment in Eientei."
As for the fairies vs bunnies, the rabbits shot them with their rifles, so they probably didn't get the point of danmaku.

[ToyoRai]

It didn't really answer my question, though I quickly looked it up myself, and apparentaly Moon Rabbits are ageless like Lunarians as long as they stay on the moon (so Reisen has natural lifespan). I primary asked due the fact that not even the seas in the Moon have no life (though it makes me question the peach trees, but thatis me just asking too many questions).

On fairies vs. bunnies... Reisen uses an invisible gun, what's their excuse :v . But serious now, if Eirin can use PILLS as danmaku, I think bullets are as lethal in danmaku battle as anything else (as in, not lethal).

Speaking of which, why did Eirin even become a doctor? I mean, if Lunarians cannot even get sick, what do they need medicine for (and I think they do life in societity where accidents would probably be rare and civil war also rare).

[Tengukami]

To make shady new drugs, of course.

[Fonzi]

I remember reading discussions about this on TV Tropes. The peach trees may be just like the Lunarians themselves. Neither alive, nor dead.

In danmaku duels, everything is adjusted to non-lethal mode, but the rabbits didn't seem to get it the first time the rules and danmaku was demonstrated to them. But since it was only fairies they were aiming at, it's okay even if their bullets were lethal.

Speaking of which, why did Eirin even become a doctor? I mean, if Lunarians cannot even get sick, what do they need medicine for (and I think they do life in societity where accidents would probably be rare and civil war also rare).

To get high.  :V But in seriousness, you probably answered your own question. They still can suffer injuries, however unlikely their occurrence, it's good to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. That, or they used it just how they used the Hourai Elixir - as a bargaining chip or a tool of manipulation on humans.

[Helepolis]

I've been wondering about the corrupted tools in DDC. According to the dialogues of the game, several characters mention the tools getting awareness by that tool the "culprit" uses.

I remember Byakuren was mentioning her scroll was possessed by a force as well, and only she was capable of handling it. Makes me wonder now if there is a connection. Pre-DDC I was suspecting, but during the actual game no connections were made, at least not until now.

And if tools are imbued by their own "life" as claimed in DDC, wouldn't that make Kogasa herself and possibly Medicine more questionable? Or are they totally non-related? (Since it was stated Kogasa has become what she has due to her nature as forgotten Umbrella I assume.

On a semi silly though serious note, what would happen if the tool imbuing thing was used for Alice dolls. I cannot think of the trouble arising for her to control her dolls?

[Sagus]

I am checking that chapter out and I don't think that was the case. From what I see, they just left them there after they got notice that the invaders were stopped. The talk about Lord Daikoku and Takeminakata doesn't seem related to her getting released. It seemed like what was related was that Toyohime needs to go back in order to send them back to earth.

It didn't seem directly related, but Toyohime's face during the whole thing showed that she wasn't pleased with the direction the talk was going. She explicitly said in the beggining that she was coinsidering taking Yukari as a trophy, and for no apparent reason gave up on the idea after she got the notice about the other invaders being stopped. I don't see why she'd give up on locking Yukari just because the other intruders were dealt with, since one thing has nothing to do with the other, and the only other thing that happened during that chap was the discussion regarding the war god.

I've been wondering about the corrupted tools in DDC. According to the dialogues of the game, several characters mention the tools getting awareness by that tool the "culprit" uses.

I remember Byakuren was mentioning her scroll was possessed by a force as well, and only she was capable of handling it. Makes me wonder now if there is a connection. Pre-DDC I was suspecting, but during the actual game no connections were made, at least not until now.

And if tools are imbued by their own "life" as claimed in DDC, wouldn't that make Kogasa herself and possibly Medicine more questionable? Or are they totally non-related? (Since it was stated Kogasa has become what she has due to her nature as forgotten Umbrella I assume.

On a semi silly though serious note, what would happen if the tool imbuing thing was used for Alice dolls. I cannot think of the trouble arising for her to control her dolls?

Byakuren's scroll has a will of its own because it's made from Makai materials, so it's not really related to the side-effects of the Lucky Mallet. Could be considered foreshadowing, though.

I don't get what you mean by Kogasa and Medicine being questionable...

Hm, I wonder if she'd consider her dream of making an autonomous doll fullfilled, or would be pissed that someone turned all her dolls into tsukumogami =P

[Fonzi]

A question that just occurred to me concernes something, which some Touhou fans might consider offensive, and that is the term "primary" and "secondary" in terms of being a fan of the franchise. I got a general idea what is what, but the definitions sometimes vary. Some say primary is a fan who learned about Touhou from the games first, others say it's a person who has at least played the games, regardless of the way they were introduced to Touhou.

[ToyoRai]

Hm, I wonder if she'd consider her dream of making an autonomous doll fullfilled, or would be pissed that someone turned all her dolls into tsukumogami =P

Maybe both? First she thinks that she had discovered to make a fully functional automaton doll, but then she finds out its a tsukumogami and gets pissed off on that. SOME ONE MAKE THAT INTO A DOUJIN!

Spoiler:

And while you're at it, make a picture where the Eientei group mourn over Reisen's passing. Seriously now, I have seen plenty of pictures of Marisa/Sakuya/Keine passing away due of them being humans and others mourning over it, but Reisen would fall into that situation as well, with Kaguya and Eirin being immortals and who knows how long Tewi can live. Its weird to ask to see a pciture of one of your favourite characters dying, but interesting situations over character preference

[Prime32]

A question that just occurred to me concernes something, which some Touhou fans might consider offensive, and that is the term "primary" and "secondary" in terms of being a fan of the franchise. I got a general idea what is what, but the definitions sometimes vary. Some say primary is a fan who learned about Touhou from the games first, others say it's a person who has at least played the games, regardless of the way they were introduced to Touhou.

Broadly it's whether or not you get your understanding from fanworks rather than the original sources, but it depends on how Scottish you are.

[Clarste]

Speaking of which, why did Eirin even become a doctor? I mean, if Lunarians cannot even get sick, what do they need medicine for (and I think they do life in societity where accidents would probably be rare and civil war also rare).

She was a doctor before she moved to the moon. Tsukuyomi was upset by all the death on Earth so she recommended they move to the moon to get away from it. That was her medical advice, as a doctor. A lot of people seem to think of Eirin as primarily a Lunarian, and while that's technically true it's also very important to remember that she's a founder of Lunarian society. She wasn't born a Lunarian, she became one, and was already a highly skilled and experienced adult before anyone even considered living there. It's also heavily hinted that she's Omoikane, the Shinto god of knowledge, and is older than even the big gods like Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. You thought she was exaggerating about her age?

[Fonzi]

She was a doctor before she moved to the moon.

Where is this mentioned, if I may ask?

[Clarste]

Where is this mentioned, if I may ask?

It's not explicitly said, but I think it's implied. In CiLR chapter 3, Toyohime narrates that when the "sage" Tsukuyomi moved to the moon and founded the Lunar Capital, and the person he relied upon most while doing so was Eirin, who's even older than Tsukuyomi. So she was older and wiser than him when he was already a sage? And yet she still hadn't learned a profession? It's just weird to imagine any other scenario. Although yes, I should have said "probably a doctor before she moved to the moon".

[Fonzi]

Still staying on the Moon topic, I read a discussion on TV Tropes about moon rabbits. They were talked about as an enslaved race. They have the lowest status in the Lunarian society, but what source explicitly states that they lived on the Moon prior to its colonization by Tsukuyomi? Because Kaguya in IN says something about all magic and youkai having originated from the Moon. So is it possible that the moon rabbits are Lunarian creations and not the Moon's indigenous population?

[Clarste]

Still staying on the Moon topic, I read a discussion on TV Tropes about moon rabbits. They were talked about as an enslaved race. They have the lowest status in the Lunarian society, but what source explicitly states that they lived on the Moon prior to its colonization by Tsukuyomi? Because Kaguya in IN says something about all magic and youkai having originated from the Moon. So is it possible that the moon rabbits are Lunarian creations and not the Moon's indigenous population?

I don't think there's anything that mentions it one way or another, so I suppose it's possible that they're Lunarian creations. Not that that makes any difference regarding whether or not you consider them enslaved.

Regarding the "all youkai originate from the moon" thing though, in CiLR chapter 5, Yukari clarifies exactly what that means, and it's a lot less literal than you seem to be thinking.  I'll just quote it:

A large mirror that reflects the sunlight, and at the same time illuminates the darkness of the Earth. The most light comes from the full moon. While it may seem as if it were the worst night for youkai, why is it that they are the most powerful under the light of the moon?
   
The reason for that is because the light not only illuminates, but gives rise to shadows as well.   

Under the dim light of the moon, all sorts of things blanket the Earth in shadows, such as grasses, trees, mountains, rocks and buildings. With light as weak as moonlight, it is impossible to eliminate these shadows. And they are the birthplace of humanity's fears, sometimes creating legends of youkai. In a manner of speaking, the moon gave birth to all youkai.

To sum it up, moonlight creates shadows, and shadows are the origin of "humanity's fear of the dark" which is also mentioned in SoPM as the basis of youkai. It's all tied into the old "human belief creates gods and youkai" thing.

[Sagus]

Kaguya's claim is that the lunarians gave the Earth various powers, like magic, and created monsters to control its impurity:

The moon granted many powers to the Earth. Most powers such as magic were originally those of the moon. [...] We of the moon turned some on the Earth into monsters, to regulate the Earthlings' impurity.

Her claim doesn't contradict Yukari's explanation, either; it could be that the lunarians adjusted how much of the sun's light the moon can reflect, dimming it enough so that it'd create the shadows needed to stir and solidify humanity's fear, for instance.

She could just be boasting, of course, but there isn't really anything that outright contradicts her.

[Fonzi]

I already knew of both versions and that they aren't mutually exclusive, but this was specifically related to my question of the moon rabbits' origin, where it would seem more likely that Lunarians created them on purpose so they could serve them rather than having human imagination inspired by fear give birth to them.

It's more complicated than that. Because if both versions are part of the same truth, it means the light of the Moon was dimmed after the Lunarians have settled on the Moon, which would mean that humans knew no youkai before that. But then there's the White Rabbit of Inaba, which is set in the timeline long before the founding of the Lunar Capital, so Tewi had to exist as a youkai before there was any Lunarian civilization. It would be like asking what is older: human belief in gods or human fear and belief in youkai? But Kaguya's words "The moon granted many powers to the Earth. Most powers such as magic were originally those of the moon." make me believe that it was not the Lunarians, but simply the Moon (as in the celestial body) that bestowed such powers upon Earth. Then came the Lunarians and "turned some of the Earth into monsters". This doesn't mean there were no monsters on Earth before that. It could mean that they simply increased their count.

[Sagus]

It gets weirder when you consider that Izanagi and Izanami created Japan 25 million years ago in the touhouverse (as Maribel figures out in NToJ). Humans evolved less than half a million years ago, so why were there gods at all back then, if they're born out of human belief?

...anyway, regarding the rabbit question, I'd argue that they are lunarian creations, mostly because I don't think the lunarians would keep anything generated from the thoughts of the impure Earth humans in their society, even as slaves.

[Fonzi]

It gets weirder when you consider that Izanagi and Izanami created Japan 25 million years ago in the touhouverse (as Maribel figures out in NToJ). Humans evolved less than half a million years ago, so why were there gods at all back then, if they're born out of human belief?

I think CoLA chapter 15 dabbles in this. At first, the gods were all nameless entities and the concept of their being and their powers was much more vague than after they got a name. If we ignore real life logic and only follow the Touhou logic, then the gods were there before humans and before everything. But then again, can we really take Rinnosuke's theories for granted?

[Starxsword]

Furthermore, Yorihime knew they were the diversion for Yukari. Of course Yorihime knew they weren't seriously intending to do much of anything.

Yeah, but the point of contention is still the same. Even if Yorihime knows that fact, their actions are what is more relevant. Remilia's action is what would cause Yorihime to view it as something serious. It doesn't really matter if Remilia is boasting or not, as Yorihime doesn't know these people or their intentions.

Yukari is supposed to act like she has a grudge. I do think she does as well, but not because she was caught during the war.

That could be the case. She mentioned this 6 months ago, comparative to her conversation with Remilia.

When Ran said "as you know", she was referring to Yuyuko having seen that event in-person.

I see, is that the implication? Then, it is safe to assume Yuyuko witnessed it.

You're right, it's irrelevant, but Yorihime is only one Lunarian. Even if one of the Gensokyo girls wuld beat her somehow, there's still a whole army of Lunarians, so I doubt they'd get very far in conquering. "Almost won or almost lost" doesn't matter in a war or duel. Just "won" or "lost". And they lost 0 to 4.

She is responsible for protecting the moon. I'm not sure what this has anything to do with the discussion, could you clarify?

If Yukari went to the Moon with the knowledge and intention that she'd lose the war, why would she hold any grudges at all? It was her plan to lose and she did it like a boss. And just because Yukari remembers her "defeat" doesn't mean she has to be pissed about it. It was simply a memorable experience for her, because I assume she doesn't go to the Moon very often.

No, this is the reference. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/Last_Chapter. This implies she is harboring a grudge. That said, what Drake says is also correct, she could be pretending, as it was set during the events of the gamble she made when she mentioned this to Remilia.

Remilia: "That was so long ago, I have already forgotten. You may harbor thousand-year-old grudges, but I live for the future."
Yukari: "Oh my, harboring grudges? Who mentioned anything like that?" Yukari said with a sly grin.
Remilia: "Hm? Didn't you say something about invading the moon this winter six months ago?"
Yukari: "That was so long ago, I have already forgotten."

So they considered her spy crow as a bigger threat than Yukari herself? Unlikely.

What about the spy crow? It was heading straight towards the capital, so they sent it to the fake moon instead. I'm not sure what this has anything to do with this conversation.

It didn't really answer my question, though I quickly looked it up myself, and apparentaly Moon Rabbits are ageless like Lunarians as long as they stay on the moon (so Reisen has natural lifespan). I primary asked due the fact that not even the seas in the Moon have no life (though it makes me question the peach trees, but thatis me just asking too many questions).

I think there is some misunderstanding here. Lunarians age like humans do, there is no real difference between a Lunarian and a human, as they are one and the same. The difference here is one lives on the moon and the other lives on earth. The separating factor is that the moon has no impurity. It means anyone living on the moon will not die of natural causes.

I think bullets are as lethal in danmaku battle as anything else (as in, not lethal).

Danmaku battle does not cause something lethal to become non-lethal. The user must make sure it is non-lethal in the first place. If those Lunarian rabbits use guns that can kill, then it will. However, you cannot kill a fairy, as they are immortal.

I don't see why she'd give up on locking Yukari just because the other intruders were dealt with, since one thing has nothing to do with the other, and the only other thing that happened during that chap was the discussion regarding the war god.

My reasoning is that Toyohime thinks they are done. By that, I mean they routed all of Yukari's plans, so there is no point to take her into custody. This is mainly because from reading those chapters, I don't see any indication of gods discussion that would have caused Yorihime to let Yukari go.

@Reisen and Tewi possibly dying: Tewi is a youkai, how long she has is not even known. As for Reisen, that is also unknown, but Kaguya can probably keep them alive forever if they wanted to.

But then again, can we really take Rinnosuke's theories for granted?

Unfortunately, it is very hard to trust Rinnosuke, but some of his theories are true. It is just that several of them get disproved directly.

[Drake]

Danmaku battle does not cause something lethal to become non-lethal. The user must make sure it is non-lethal in the first place. If those Lunarian rabbits use guns that can kill, then it will. However, you cannot kill a fairy, as they are immortal.

very debatable