TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth

[Quwanti]

can someone translate the changelist for the patch if there is one? I wanna see all the changes Koishi has now

There is one. It would be too big to place in this topic, however.
--

I like this new Futo. Though, it is frustrating to see a stun early in a combo. Now it is even harder to do a 2000 dmg combo.

[Critz]

Woah. Snatcher only works from below now. And Catch&Rose has no time limit and only works in a combo 

[Lumenebr?]

I eagerly await Gpop's inevitable next combo video for Koishi.

But dang, all this ate up a big rev number.
I suppose we'll have to wait for 1.15 or 1.2
Also expecting a 1.10a/b very soon, since with this many changes, there are bound to be glitches all about.
Has anyone tested if the 2Snatcher exists?

[Critz]

Downward Snatcher does exist indeed. Sorry for the earlier info.

[cuc]

Koishi can block during some triggered animations.

[Sungho]

General

The sizes of the attack hixboxes for the attacks in Dial A combo were increased.
Added 5AAAA and 5AAA 4A (Of course, number of As differ by character) that wallslams and stuns, but can't be canceled into anything but spellcards.
Sharply decreased knockback from projectiles.
Changed conditions for max spirit regen. It will trigger even when the character doesn't have max spirit.
If max spirit is very low, regen will speed up.
If max spirit is fully depleted by guarding, regen will stop for a moment. Duration differs by what attack broke the guard.
Some attacks have decreased damage increase on counter hit.
Fixed a bug where canceling after moving vertically won't work except in adequate circumstances.
When brave guarding, pushback is similar to chicken guarding.
Fixed a bug where getting hit by a projectile while having the same coordinates on the edge of the screen will result in weird directions. (I do not understand)
Countdown won't restart when only a single player uses a spellcard while both players have declared a spellcard.
Added SFX for counterhits.
Removed collision box when teching.
Reduced increment of spell gauge when getting hit.
Increased increment of of spell gauge when attacking.

Popularity System
 

You also get a message for a big change in popularity, and for which reason this is.

Increased popularity penalty for guarding.
Characters will receive popularity changes even while attacking.
---Next one is cut off mid-sentence.
Something about when popularity becomes easier to drop after receiving several popularity drops in a row, --------- when ----- popularity just once.
I guess it will be something about being easier to recover from the penalty from receiving several popularity drops in a row when the player gets a popularity rise.

Changes in popularity calculation when nearing timeout.
-The player with lower HP will receive larger popularity bonuses.
-The fleeing side is more prone to decreasing, the pursuing side is more prone to increasing.

The next is something about adjustment to 'Art Points' (I'm quite sure there is a better translation for 芸術, but my vocabulary is lacking)
which increases when brave guarding, and decreases when chicken guarding or being too much on the defensive.
It seems to be related to crowd cheering and booing.

Art points doesn't decrease naturally. Even brave guarding sparsely will make it easier for the crowd to cheer for the player.
Whenever crowd cheering occurs by increase in art points, the next evaluation for art points will become stricter. Both players share this effect.
Whenever crowd booing occurs by decrease in art points, booing will become less likely.
Decrease in popularity occurred by booing will be consistent no matter how many times it happened.


When overcoming a large HP difference, the opponent won't receive a popularity penalty.
(It was a really s***ty mechanic in Story Mode. One second you have over 90%, the next second it drops to negative just because the opponent got a lucky shot)
Making a difference in HP now gives a popularity bonus.
Having max popularity now also gives increased spirit regen.
Both players will have 0% popularity after max popularity mode ends.


Items
Players can't use items that consume max spirit when the spirit bar is blinking red.

Spiritual Strike Talisman
Defense will drop whenever you use this item for the round.

Magic Mushroom
Changed to one-time use
Increased spirit regen.
Added increased max spirit regen effect.

Virtueless Dharmacakra
Increased max spirit consumption.
Stun increased to 100%

Witch's Broom
Returned the effect of full-speed dashing when used
Reduced number of cancelable attacks
Consumes a large amount of max spirit when used
Koishi and Hijiri uses their own special dashes.
Guard chipping abilities are greatly reduced right after using this item, and the player can't use this item again while this effect persists.

Pagoda of Bishamonten
Increased damage
Decreased Rate reduction
Decreased Stun
Slightly increased cancelling power

Hermit-Style Plate
Increased max spirit consumption
Changed to Melee
Increased damage
Increased Rate reduction
Increased Stun
The next one says Changed Rush Contents, which is obibut I can't make it any better without knowing more about the context.

Ritual Baton
Does not increase popularity directly, but increases art points, which would result in cheering.
Removed penalty for prematurely ending the holding.

Force Shield
Now also nullifies guard chipping when used.

Faith-altering items have higher faith reduction.



I really hope I didn't do any completely wrong translations.
Guard chipping most likely refers to spirit reduction when guarding attacks, but also could be chip damage, or both.

What character next?

[cuc]

"Art score", I guess, or whatever it's called in gymnastics or diving.

[Gpop]

I think it's an overall thing but now x and y projectiles contribute to stun. This is fustrating and annoying especially for Koishi since a lot of her combos rely on that.

Here's a list of changes I've noticed with Koishi.

- Her Y is now no longer instant. Instead it travels across the screen for a bit, so it does make it annoying for keep away since it stays on the screen longer, but it also makes it more easy to dodge due to grazing.

- Koishi's 2 fidgety snatcher is as good as the other versions. so I highly recommend this when people try to go under you.

- Due to the X and Y nerf, a lot of her stronger combos no longer work anymore, which I'm really sad about

-Her called out moves no longer come out after a certain amount of time, this is a buff for her since now Koishi won't get randomly baited out/punished from that.

- 4 Catch and Release seems good, unfortunately the move itself is blockable so I don't see too much of a reason to use it outside of mind games (lol). It's fast, but not fast enough for the opponent to not react to. Might be a good long-distant counter though. I might play around with this move a bit.

- Shinto Koishi no longer creates an 6-way Y move. Instead, it's the same as Neutral but now instead of inputting a direction for the Y move's direction, the move will automatically detect the opponent from one of the 6 directions and if they are in that range it will come out at that direction, regardless of input. So it literally is Koishi reacting to the opponent's position. I find this to be more of a nerf though since now it's harder to hit the opponent, moreso because it's as slow as Neutral.

- Because of this, I feel Buddhist Koishi is the best religion for her now. Her multi-hitting X doesn't add stun until the last hit, so some of the older combos work on here. This doesn't mean Shinto is bad. It's great for keep away and neutral game. But for me personally, I'll be sticking to Buddhist now.

- Her 8B/dial-8A's horizontal hitbox has been increased by A LOT, so now you can finally combo into it midscreen (this was a problem since from midscreen it would never connect). This makes the move even MORE scary.

In all honesty, it felt like Koishi got nerfed more than buffed, but that is more because of the system changes (to get rid of combos such as Nitori's corner loop). Now it makes comboing even more annoying to connect =/. I'll make a video on this sometime this week to show off all the changes Koishi made that I find

EDIT:

Koishi can block during some triggered animations.

Okay now THIS is a HUGE buff. It makes baiting her moves out even harder.

Also, I need to test out the broom thing now that it mentions that Koishi has her own dash for it.

I eagerly await Gpop's inevitable next combo video for Koishi.

Unfortunately, the nerf in projectiles makes it even HARDER to combo, so I dunno what I can do from here unfortunately

[LadyScarlet]

can someone translate the changelist for the patch if there is one? I wanna see all the changes Koishi has now

I've observed the following:
- Fidgety Snatcher has an upside-down version
- Conditioned Teleport now shoots diagonally depending on the enemy's position from Koishi when they enter the ring.
- Growing Pain chains itself together until another special overrides it (I don't know if this is a bug or if it was in the last version.)
- Stinging Mind's roses become visible when the enemy goes near them (again, not sure if it was in the last version)

As for other character-specific changes I've noticed:
- Byakuren's Claw of Garuda now activates MUCH quicker. It still doesn't graze, though.
- Byakuren's Dance of Hanumān can now chain into a 3-hit combo instead of a 2-hit.
- Futo and Miko's dial-A combos have a lower hit count
- Miko's 17 Razors activates much quicker
- Nitori's Kiku-ichimonji Compressor now costs a whopping 200 battery points to use. Less cheap, insane combos as a result.
- Nitori's Photon Torpedo is now slanted more diagonally (Nitori flies diagonally up or down based on the direction, and the bombs are also more slanted)

[Lumenebr?]

The next is something about adjustment to 'Art Points' (I'm quite sure there is a better translation for 芸術, but my vocabulary is lacking)
which increases when brave guarding, and decreases when chicken guarding or being too much on the defensive.
It seems to be related to crowd cheering and booing.

Art points doesn't decrease naturally. Even brave guarding sparsely will make it easier for the crowd to cheer for the player.
Whenever crowd cheering occurs by increase in art points, the next evaluation for art points will become stricter. Both players share this effect.
Whenever crowd booing occurs by decrease in art points, booing will become less likely.
Decrease in popularity occurred by booing will be consistent no matter how many times it happened.

This may be related to the Blue and Red auras that appear around the players. Come to think of it, did anyone actually bother finding out what extra cancels the blue gave to everyone?

I think it's an overall thing but now x and y projectiles contribute to stun. This is fustrating and annoying especially for Koishi since a lot of her combos rely on that.
We did kind of have a triple 6DialA/X Corner combo.

- Her Y is now no longer instant. Instead it travels across the screen for a bit, so it does make it annoying for keep away since it stays on the screen longer, but it also makes it more easy to dodge due to grazing.
Making room for Tao I suppose

- Shinto Koishi no longer creates an 6-way Y move. Instead, it's the same as Neutral but now instead of inputting a direction for the Y move's direction, the move will automatically detect the opponent from one of the 6 directions and if they are in that range it will come out at that direction, regardless of input. So it literally is Koishi reacting to the opponent's position. I find this to be more of a nerf though since now it's harder to hit the opponent, moreso because it's as slow as Neutral.
I don't think this change was too necessary, however.

Going to do lab work on Taoishi now.

EDIT:


OH MY GOD TAOISHI'S X PROJECTILE

Also her Y suddenly has a very short maximum range, which i find extremely odd. Minimum range removed though.
6Y and 5Y are now different.
6Y has a large minimum range, with no maximum.
5Y has a short maximum range, but no minimum.

It seems that Y will activate as long as you're in range, but without checking against elevation. Darn.

C&R Has no maximum range, just takes time to travel.

[Saphir]

I wonder if there is a mid-screen combo with 6/8 or 4/2 radar. It seems the old combo doesn't work anymore

[Gpop]

I wonder if there is a mid-screen combo with 6/8 or 4/2 radar. It seems the old combo doesn't work anymore

There is. You just can't connect her projectiles too early now.

5AAA2A (6/8 radar) 5AAA6A radar connects

Of course, if you end up too close to the all, the opponent will jump out of stun before the radar hits unless you connect X, but that will stun them early.

[Critz]

T-Reimu seems to have her X bullet speed buffed too. They actually changed the amulets into needles, and it might be useful now, I suppose. Not that Reimu needs buffs.

[Saphir]

There is. You just can't connect her projectiles too early now.

5AAA2A (6/8 radar) 5AAA6A radar connects

Of course, if you end up too close to the all, the opponent will jump out of stun before the radar hits unless you connect X, but that will stun them early.

weird, I can't connect 6/8 radar with 5AAA6A in 1.10 .I can't continue atk after input 6/8 radar (I was not close enough to hit my opponent even I moved a bit)

[Lumenebr?]

weird, I can't connect 6/8 radar with 5AAA6A in 1.10 .I can't continue atk after input 6/8 radar (I was not close enough to hit my opponent even I moved a bit)

It requires some good timing. You have to input 6/8 mid-bounce from the Dial2A.
You can no longer chain into the Dial6A if you cancel as soon as 2A lands.

More accurately from this point it is: (Referring to trigger as In and the hit as Out)

5AAA2A        URadar In 3 5AAA6A (X 3) URadar Out (9 A)

The Actions in Parantheses are things you can jam in for a slight bit more damage.
With and without variations here

[Gpop]

weird, I can't connect 6/8 radar with 5AAA6A in 1.10 .I can't continue atk after input 6/8 radar (I was not close enough to hit my opponent even I moved a bit)

There's two ways to go about it.

One is to calling out radar as soon as 2A hits, which then you have to move forward a little to later connect 5AAA6A. The only problem is that if you go against Futo players it will be hard to do as her horizontal hitbox is really small so the timing is really really strict. I dunno if it still works in 1.10 though.

The other way (my preferred method) is to call radar slightly after 2A hits, which Koishi goes up a bit. Call it as she moves up, then dash down to connect 5AAA6A. This is preferred because it will always connect. You just need to practice the timing on the radar declare and when to connect dial-6A. Example of the bounce declare is here, first combo and others that somewhat follows (the full first combo in itself in the video doesn't work on anyone but Ichirin and Mamizou for some reason, so it's not really worth the time to practice it).

[Saphir]

It requires some good timing. You have to input 6/8 mid-bounce from the Dial2A.

That's what I used to do before I update to ver 1.10
Thanks for your video. I really appreciate it

The other way (my preferred method) is to call radar slightly after 2A hits, which Koishi goes up a bit. Call it as she moves up, then dash down to connect 5AAA6A. This is preferred because it will always connect.

It works! But a little bit harder...
Thank you guys

[Sungho]

"Art score", I guess, or whatever it's called in gymnastics or diving.

How unsmart of me. That's what I get for not searching properly. Or not watching the Olympics.

It seems like many people prefer Komeiji Koishi.
Unrelated, but I'm sure Komeiji Koishi would be doing the 'dance' if Kaenbyou Rin was playable.

Komeiji Koishi
All inputs are cleared when in stun(100%)
Input motions have stronger 'brakes' (Refers to inertia cancelling, I presume)
Except for some, Koishi can guard at the recovery frames of the input motions
Removed auto-trigger by time lapse.

Backdash
Can immediately stop backdashing.
Increased duration of attack

66A
Increased forward movement.
Shorter recovery.
This attack will cause medium knockback. (specifically, the sort of knockback that bends back the opponent's head)
Increased hitstop
Koishi's nose rubbing has more horizontal braking.

5AAA
Comes out faster.
Increased forward movement.

5B
Removed attack hitbox on the start
Shorter recovery.
Invincibility frames while spinning.
This attack will cause medium knockback. (specifically, the sort of knockback that bends back the opponent's head)
Reduced blinking time after inputting.

5AAAA
Reduced 'untechable' duration

6[6]B
Larger hitbox.
Removed '空キャンセル' before attack hitbox appears.(空キャンセル, Cancelling into another attack before actually hitting the opponent)
When auto-triggered from dashing for 4 steps, has GRAZE FRAMES, not cancellable into anything but spellcards.
Reduced spirit chipping. (Actually, what do people call it in English?)

2B
Removed attack hitbox at the start.
Falls almost straight down.
Increased falling speed.
Reduced trigger range.
Opponent is also knocked back in the same direction Koishi was facing.

6B
Triggers even when approaching.

X projectiles
Increased damage.
Decreased spirit consumption.
Increased Stun
Shinto, decreased speed.
Taoism, creates a powerful projectile when the hearts intersect.
Buddhism, fixed a bug where the upper projectiles were different from the lower ones.

Y projectiles
Removed counterhitable status that persisted before the bullet came out. (What a serious bug)
Shorter recovery
Increased cancelling power.
None and Shinto, changed bullet properties, will aim the opponent when triggered.
Taoism, changed into a horizontal attack that instantly attacks across the whole screen.
Buddhism, changed into a attack that attacks a short distance around Koishi.

Conditioned Teleport
No input invincibility.
All motions are quickened.
Distance between opponent after teleportation is increased
Inertia is retained during teleportation
The direction of the flames sort of depends on Koishi's movement. (while teleporting)
Reduced Stun
First hit has stronger proration effect, overall reduced proration effect
Using 2, 8, 4 slots slightly changes where Koishi teleports

Fidgety Snatcher
Increased Proration
Increased Stun
Increased recovery
Reduced falling speed.
Won't trigger when altitude is same as the opponent.
4, 2 slots will have Koishi attack below her.


Growing Pain
Uses spirit when the roses come out.
Quickened the 'shooting' motion.
Changed into a attack that triggers periodically until Koishi changes skills, gets hit, or re-inputs.
Rose vines has shorter range, increases as Koishi keeps on triggering.
Repeating triggering will allow Koishi to automatically generate a rose vine as a counter when hit.


Catch and Rose
Will now trigger on hitstuns that are stronger then bending back. (Attacks like Koishi's 66A won't trigger this)
6 slot catches opponents on far range.
6 slot will trigger on any hitstun, or the when the opponent uses projectiles or skills.


Reflex Radar.
Decreased spirit consumption
Faster activation motion
Removed unfair counterhitable frames during activation motion
Cancelling into spells are possible right after triggering.


Brambly Rose Garden
Full invincibility before the 'catch' attack.
The rose whirlpool is vertically more spread.
Increased damage.


Growing Pain really lives up to its name, now.
Who next?

[Gpop]

Holy jesus those buffs.

This will be some work to work on for the video on Koishi changes, I mean goddamn that's a lot of changes.

[Lumenebr?]

That's what I used to do before I update to ver 1.10
Thanks for your video. I really appreciate it
It works! But a little bit harder...
Thank you guys

No Problem.

All inputs are cleared when in stun(100%)
Whew, so it isn't hitstun

Backdash
Increased duration of attack
Hard counter to Reimu Screen teleport. Triple S God Tier

Conditioned Teleport
All motions are quickened.
Noticed that.

Using 2, 8, 4 slots slightly changes where Koishi teleports
Testing this

Growing Pain
Uses spirit when the roses come out.
Quickened the 'shooting' motion.
Changed into a attack that triggers periodically until Koishi changes skills, gets hit, or re-inputs.
Rose vines has shorter range, increases as Koishi keeps on triggering.
Repeating triggering will allow Koishi to automatically generate a rose vine as a counter when hit.
Trap Wire, hmm?

Really surprised Stinging Mind received no changes, when everything around it got buffs.

Here's a video of the Conditioned Teleport changes, which includes something odd that I noticed at the end.

That "small range" is very close to the opponent, but not quite making physical contact.

[commandercool]

- Nitori's Kiku-ichimonji Compressor now costs a whopping 200 battery points to use. Less cheap, insane combos as a result.

Is it just me or is this a MUCH harsher nerf than just weakening the properties of the attack some? I admit it was too good before, but now it's so prohibitively expensive that it seems almost unusable. Or at least it's lost any utility outside of combos because whiffing is such a penalty now.

This seems like it would be a great time for me to jump back into the game, but I'm moving next week. Some day! Some day I will get around to actually putting some time into this game.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Miko's changes.

- Her 6[6]A seems to leave a sort of "lingering movement", basically if you cancel it into just about anything she'll keep moving forward a little.

- Her 6[6]A also knocks up on Level 1 Cape now, instead of just on Level 2 Cape.

- 5AAA 2A Now groundbounces.

Tenfold Listening:
- Now takes a lot less time to actually give you the popularity.

Influence on Eastern World(Ring):
- If you use a second ring while one is still out, the first one vanishes immediately.

Cipangu The Golden Sword(Swords):
- 8 Version seems to knock the opponent upwards much less, allowing for easier combos.

Lazer of 17 Articles(Lasers):
- Now comes out MUCH faster.

Contracting Earth Mantle(Teleport):
- Now happens much faster depending on your cape level (Level 0 seems to be the same as before, Level 1 is a bit quicker, Level 2 is INSANELY QUICK)

Heaven in Palm(The spellcard that's not fullscreen :V):
- Starts out with an obscene amount of orbs, number of orbs decrease as the spell goes on.

Suppression by the Commands of the Sovereign(Last Word):
- NOW COMPLETELY INVINCIBLE ON STARTUP

Didn't really notice anything else, but hell, I'm liking what I see so far.

[Lumenebr?]

So I've experimented around more, and Conditioned Teleport now has a size limit.

Also I found that the Shinto Y can be a decent Hit Confirm.

After that, I figured out a way to extend the basic midscreen combo for a little more damage.

[Gpop]

(the full first combo in itself in the video doesn't work on anyone but Ichirin and Mamizou for some reason, so it's not really worth the time to practice it).

Okay scratch that I found a variation where this DOES work, and it ONLY works with Taoist Koishi

The reason being is that if you hit the opponent with X before they cross it won't do as much stun (only as much as the pre-patch version)

In fact, it really looks like Taoist Koishi is useful now. I might stick to her now since most of my stuff works with that.

[Lumenebr?]

Okay scratch that I found a variation where this DOES work, and it ONLY works with Taoist Koishi

The reason being is that if you hit the opponent with X before they cross it won't do as much stun (only as much as the pre-patch version)

In fact, it really looks like Taoist Koishi is useful now. I might stick to her now since most of my stuff works with that.

Yayyy, Taoishi Viability!

I will say though that the Y is pretty bad now, since it'll activate regardless of whether you're on the same level as your opponent.
I hope it's just a bug, since it could have just been mistakenly carried over from Shinto's homing while differentiating 5 and 6.

[Serela]

As for someone who -isn't- Koishi, Futo's 8B and 2B now activate far far faster in the dial-a combos (8B used to not even combo most of the time), and 6B has the wallslam part without 20 plates. Landing Y bullets in a combo seems much easier now, too...

But yeah, I'm in the "time to playtest Koishi to hell" bandwagon >_>;

[MewMewHeart]

I'm testing Miko and Koishi screw you ducks!  :V

[Gpop]

So I played a couple netplay matches and HOLY CRAP WHY DIDN'T I USE TAOISHI BEFORE?

Her bullets are so good and penetrates so many things so it's even better for zoning if you're good at predicting enemy movements. Her Y is still intact as well.

I guess I know who my main religion is now :V

[MewMewHeart]

So I played a couple netplay matches and HOLY CRAP WHY DIDN'T I USE TAOISHI BEFORE?

Her bullets are so good and penetrates so many things so it's even better for zoning if you're good at predicting enemy movements. Her Y is still intact as well.

I guess I know who my main religion is now :V

SPREAD THE TAOISM!  :V

[Zork787]

Does anyone mind posting the rest of the patchnotes for the other characters for those of us that can't read Japanese please? I'm after Mamizou's patch note's in particular myself.