Author Topic: Power of the ladies: How do they work?  (Read 73720 times)

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #210 on: July 28, 2013, 09:48:07 AM »
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Usually they use the word "Youjutsu", seen in Reimu and Youmu's profiles at various points, and in PMiSS's description of Mokou, among other places, which uses the same "you" as in "youkai". On the other hand, Suika describes herself and Yuugi as using "Jujutsu", which uses the kanji for curse.

If we are to divide it, it is also worth noting that Magicians do not use "Youjutsu". They use "Mahou".
This difference sort of matters, since it mentions that Byakuren uses "Youjutsu", but no such mention for Marisa, Alice, or Patchouli.

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #211 on: July 28, 2013, 07:14:06 PM »
Byakuren's power is described as both youjutsu and majutsu in her profile. Like, in the same sentence. Majutsu is clearly just a way of talking about mahou, so she clear uses mahou as well. My assumption would be that youjutsu is a very broad category that includes majutsu. Or we're reading too much into various words that are basically synonyms.

Here's what a brief survey of "magic" has revealed to me:

Youjutsu: The generic term used most often for supernatural powers like Reimu and Youmu and Mokou. Since it includes Reimu it doesn't seem to have negative connotation, right?
Majutsu: "Magic" as used by magicians. Seems to require research and study, but Akyuu also says the term is broad.
Houjutsu: Buddhist arts. Cleric-style divine magic used by monks to exorcise and whatnot. This is what Byakuren started with, but she twisted it into Majutsu.
Senjutsu: Hermit art. For our purposes, Taoist magic, although I guess Kasen uses it too. Sometimes also called doujutsu, which is more literally Tao arts.  Requires training.
Jujutsu: Curse arts. Mentioned by Suika in Yuugi's SoPM article. Not sure what it implies.

And some other "jutsus" that show up but probably aren't magical:

Taijutsu: Martial arts. Comes up a few times in IaMP profiles and such.
Kenjutsu: Fencing/Sword skill. What Youmu's good at (this is her power).
Hijutsu: Secret art. Presumably just another kind of art that happens to be secret. Sanae and Eirin both use Hijutsu.
Wajutsu: Rhetoric. Murasa has a silver tongue.

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #212 on: July 28, 2013, 08:14:26 PM »
Majutsu is clearly just a way of talking about mahou, so she clear uses mahou as well.
There is a bit of difference between -jutsu ("techniques") and -hou/-dou (roughly "way").

Anyone who can use a sword is using kenjutsu, but kendo is a fencing sport with explicit rules. Likewise judo is newer and more focused than jujutsu. Here, the different term could imply that Byakuren approaches magic less scientifically than a "mahou" user.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 08:16:16 PM by Prime32 »

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #213 on: July 28, 2013, 08:26:42 PM »
Except her profile says her ability is "enough to use mahou" and other magicians have been described as using majutsu. As Akyuu says, "mahou" is vague.

In this sort of analysis there's always the danger of focusing too much on the wording when the author just intended them to be synonyms. The nuance may be different, but that doesn't actually mean they're different things.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 08:31:27 PM by Clarste »

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #214 on: July 28, 2013, 10:32:54 PM »
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Youjutsu: The generic term used most often for supernatural powers like Reimu and Youmu and Mokou. Since it includes Reimu it doesn't seem to have negative connotation, right?

Not sure if I completely agree with that. Reimu does have some pretty shady attacks in Hisoutensoku that looks like they belonged to someone evil. I understand it was Meiling's dream, but I believe the attacks themselves are a depiction of what the character in question can do. She also pulls some shady attacks in Silent Sinner in Blue.

Her knowledge of Youjutsu is mentioned in her Immaterial and Missing Power profile. From that profile, I am unsure what opinion I should form on this. Her knowing does imply that it should not have a negative connotation, but on the other hand... refer to my earlier to paragraph.

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My assumption would be that youjutsu is a very broad category that includes majutsu.

This is really the part I don't agree with. I don't think that Youjutsu would include Majutsu, but it is hard to tell.

This is Gensokyo and most enemies are Youkai, so I understand why Youjutsu would be most commonly used, but I don't think we should extend to cover other fields. Until I see users that have little business with Youjutsu use Youjutsu, I can't say I am incline to think Youjutsu as the larger category of magic. By that, I mean people like Tenshi, Kanako, Yorihime, Kaguya, Eirin, Aki Sisters, Eiki, Komachi, and some others. Suwako, I am unsure, because she also uses some pretty shady attacks.

The thing that makes it harder to guess is mainly the fighting game profiles really mention these different magic styles. Most of the other games don't mention it.

Drake

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #215 on: July 28, 2013, 11:17:43 PM »
Not sure if I completely agree with that. Reimu does have some pretty shady attacks in Hisoutensoku that looks like they belonged to someone evil. I understand it was Meiling's dream, but I believe the attacks themselves are a depiction of what the character in question can do. She also pulls some shady attacks in Silent Sinner in Blue.
While I don't really agree with the implication that Reimu's use of youjutsu means it isn't negative-etc, the point is still that youjutsu shouldn't mean a sort of negative-ish power or technique just because it uses the same you from youkai, especially since the character doesn't mean anything negative or shady either. Is there another reason it should?

Until I see users that have little business with Youjutsu use Youjutsu
This too; while I don't necessarily agree that youjutsu is a broader category (seems probable though), this reasoning sounds unfalsifiable.

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #216 on: July 28, 2013, 11:26:15 PM »
I'm really not sure what you would consider "having little to do with youjutsu". I mean, what does Mokou have to do with youkai? And Reimu exorcises youkai (using Taoist symbols like Yin-yang...). Whether or not Reimu is shady as an individual, no one's ever challenged her on the grounds of using inappropriate magic (which they constantly do for Byakuren).

Anyway, what I would consider the strongest evidence is that Byakuren's magic is described as both youjutsu and majutsu. In the same sentence. With a comma implying that they're just different words for the same thing (and in fact our translation doesn't bother separating them and just says "black magic"). Now, I suppose it's possible that she uses three separate kinds of magic to do the exact same thing, that seems like more of an assumption than the simple linguistic fact that these words are mostly interchangeable.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 11:28:20 PM by Clarste »

cuc

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #217 on: July 29, 2013, 08:16:36 AM »
Also 奇術 kijutsu, literally "strange arts", that's Sakuya's sleight of hand; 幻術 genjutsu, "illusion arts"; 催眠術 saiminjutsu, "hypnotism".

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Jujutsu: Curse arts. Mentioned by Suika in Yuugi's SoPM article. Not sure what it implies.
The character 呪, other than "curse", can also mean "spell", as in the magical words you recite or written down in general.

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Reimu's Hisoutensoku spell card
That one is nothing but a result of Meiling's fervent dream. Going by the example of Mamizou's HM midboss cards, it can be argued that this card should be attributed to Giant Catfish or Taisun rather than Reimu, since it's not used by the real her.

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Why does the word "youjutsu" appear so often in the IaMP profiles?
The context matters. When writing the profiles for his first fighting game, ZUN apparently felt the need to describe each character's magical and physical capacities one by one. "Youjutsu" is used here as the standard word for "magical capacity", while "taijutsu" was used for the later.

ZUN's unusual choice of using a relatively negative and specific word "youjutsu" for a neutral and general concept, is why the word has been used for Reimu. Most modern writers would have used the word "mahou", since this is the word that has come to serve this general purpose in today's usage.

And there is a precedent. ZUN's diary from 2003 Feb 16:
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東方の場合は、弾幕は魔法であり、妖術であり、得体の知れない力なのです。
In Touhou's case, danmaku is mahou; it is youjutsu; it is a power of unknowable nature.
Here, a younger ZUN used both "youjutsu" and "mahou" together to describe "mysterious magic".

ZUN might have felt the word "mahou" has become so overused as to be meaningless - it's in almost every RPG, after all, so he came to prefer the less popular word "youjutsu", which has the implication of uncanny sorcery, to preserve the sense that the magic is beyond human understanding. That's my theory.

Within the universe, "youjutsu" is probably only for youkai and sorcerers, and only a newly arrived outsider who knows nothing about how Gensokyo works would describe Reimu's spell as "youjutsu".
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 08:23:14 AM by cuc »
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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #218 on: July 29, 2013, 09:09:47 AM »
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While I don't really agree with the implication that Reimu's use of youjutsu means it isn't negative-etc, the point is still that youjutsu shouldn't mean a sort of negative-ish power or technique just because it uses the same you from youkai, especially since the character doesn't mean anything negative or shady either. Is there another reason it should?

I don't quite know enough about Japanese culture, but in Chinese, the word 妖 has negative connotations. It almost always means evil, even if the user isn't necessarily evil.

Youkai, Youma, Youki, etc. all have negative connotations. Even though Youki really only means "妖" - "Energy". You can usually see this in fighting animes where they talk about Youki or different types of ki, like Yuyuko Hakushou, and some others. There are less animes that talk about different types of magic, so Youjutsu, Jujutsu, and stuff like that don't get mentioned.

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That one is nothing but a result of Meiling's fervent dream. Going by the example of Mamizou's HM midboss cards, it can be argued that this card should be attributed to Giant Catfish or Taisun rather than Reimu, since it's not used by the real her.

That might be it, but this should be in Meiling's perspective, being Meiling's dream. I don't believe Meiling was actually invaded by any dream demons or anything like that. So, the cards Meiling faces would be cards that Meiling believes the character in question can use.

The dream sequence starts when Meiling is in the Clock tower, which is after fighting against Pathcouli. Her two opponents before Reimu are Alice and Marisa, both using cards that aren't unusual about them.

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Here, a younger ZUN used both "youjutsu" and "mahou" together to describe "mysterious magic".

In this context, yes, it would mean that Youjutsu and Mahou mean the same. So, this is his diary?

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ZUN might have felt the word "mahou" has become so overused as to be meaningless - it's in almost every RPG, after all, so he came to prefer the less popular word "youjutsu", which has the implication of uncanny sorcery, to preserve the sense that the magic is beyond human understanding. That's my theory.

What is confusing is why would he differentiate it in the profiles? He does not interchange Youjutsu with Mahou when talking about any of the magicians. Actually, I don't think Youjutsu and Mahou are ever used interchangeably, but I could be mistaken.

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I'm really not sure what you would consider "having little to do with youjutsu". I mean, what does Mokou have to do with youkai?

You don't necessarily have to be youkai to use Youjutsu, like Byakuren, she learns Youjutsu. Mokou's been alive for a thousand years or so, so who knows what she has learned. I made a list of those people, because I don't believe they would have anything to do with Youjutsu or unlikely to. Now, this is based on the assumption I make that Youjutsu has negative connotations. Which how I got those names. If any of those people I mentioned uses Youjutsu, then I am simply wrong.

Reimu is kind of on the iffy side because of occasions in which we do see her using "dark" type attacks.

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Whether or not Reimu is shady as an individual, no one's ever challenged her on the grounds of using inappropriate magic (which they constantly do for Byakuren).

This is a good point, people would have challenged Reimu if her magic is considered evil.

cuc

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #219 on: July 29, 2013, 09:47:11 AM »
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In this context, yes, it would mean that Youjutsu and Mahou mean the same. So, this is his diary?
Source
In that sentence, he used "youjutsu" immediately after "mahou", as "mahou" was insufficient to convey what he wanted to say, that danmaku is beyond human comprehension, so they are technically not the same there :-).

I think this sentence can be used as proof that when speaking from an omniscient narrator perspective, ZUN may use "youjutsu" as a neutral and general term for "magic", which is the case with IaMP profiles. In-universe, the word "youjutsu" should be negative and associated with youkai, yes.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 10:25:47 AM by cuc »
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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #220 on: July 30, 2013, 08:17:06 AM »
Waiting for the magician discussion to end so that I can put in something in of my own....

(If you want to know, it's about the fact that SanaeB in UFO recognizes the fact that power and point items exist in the Touhou universe....)
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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #221 on: July 30, 2013, 01:09:08 PM »
Yeah, Sanae's 4th wall breaking has been covered quite a lot.

Also, please don't be shy about jumping in. These discussions can get very ... detailed.

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #222 on: July 30, 2013, 02:24:45 PM »
There are more 4th wall breaking instances in Touhou. Such as when Flandre tells Marisa that she has to play with one coin and can't use a continue. Or in PCB, where the heroine colletcts spring (the cherry items) that's being mentioned throughout the game, but I'm not sure if that counts as 4th wall breaking as these items are unique to that game and relevant to the story, same as UFO's or Divine Spirits.  But there, Reimu also refers to Chen as "just a stage 2 boss". At least in my current game translation. The wiki's dialogue translation does't mention that.
Another example is Yuuka's Bad End monologue in MS.

ToyoRai

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #223 on: July 30, 2013, 02:44:49 PM »
Yeah the "item existing in-universe" is probably just 4th wall breaking. And I don't think it is worth talking about in this thread.
Spoiler:
I mean, I wonder how come Miko can shoot fire in HM but I don't bother bringing that up. Or summoning swords from midair. Or teleporting, but the last one doesn't really matter me as much as the other two and I mainly ignore this one.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 02:49:25 PM by ToyoRai »

Tengukami

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #224 on: July 30, 2013, 05:12:27 PM »
Yeah the "item existing in-universe" is probably just 4th wall breaking. And I don't think it is worth talking about in this thread.
Yeah, breaking the 4th wall isn't really a "power" per se; it's just a cute literary device ZUN seems to be fond of.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #225 on: July 30, 2013, 07:18:32 PM »
Spoiler:
I mean, I wonder how come Miko can shoot fire in HM but I don't bother bringing that up. Or summoning swords from midair. Or teleporting, but the last one doesn't really matter me as much as the other two and I mainly ignore this one.
The answer to this is "magic".

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #226 on: July 31, 2013, 05:58:21 AM »
@ToyoRai: Many characters can perform things that are not listed in their abilities. Don't be too surprised if the character can actually do those things in universe.

ToyoRai

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #227 on: July 31, 2013, 06:37:53 AM »
I guess my "problem" with those things is that how out of nowhere they are. I mena, you are trying to figure Miko's moves and suddenly, concealed flamethrowers. In fact, it sort of reminds of one comment what Drake made previously on this thread
I mean sure you can decide to continue saying Yuugi's ability really is to "manipulate the supernatural" whatever that means, you'll just be wrong for the same reason saying Sanae's ability is to breathe fire.
(In the sense that Miko now has shown being able to st least shoot fire)
Again, it doesn't bother me and not really worth talking about any further, but yeah, they just come out of nowhere
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 06:40:18 AM by ToyoRai »

Imosa

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #228 on: July 31, 2013, 07:19:51 AM »
I don't see how being able to shoot fire is a problem for Miko. Miko used to be human and we've already seen a human shoot fire... Marisa in DDC. What stopped Miko from dabbling in Flame Thrower magic and having this attack as a remnant? Heck, what stops her from doing it now? I feel like many characters could learn abilities outside their normal skill set if they just sat down and studied, or is there something saying that isn't right.

ToyoRai

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #229 on: July 31, 2013, 07:48:54 AM »
Again, I am not claiming she cannot do that, I am just saying how out of nowhere it feels especially a lot of Miko's moveset focuses on lasers and energy orbs. And bringing Marisa into this doesn't really help your case as she specializes in light and heat magic and she shoots fire out of the corrupted Mini-Hakkero, which was originally a furnace.Again, I really don't think this subject needs any further discussion. Let's just leave it as one of mysteries which doesn't need deeper look at.

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #230 on: July 31, 2013, 07:51:35 AM »
Well as I just mentioned, several forms of magic are explicitly studied. "Mahou" seems to be mostly alchemy actually, and even normal humans like Marisa can become magicians just through study and research. "Senjutsu", including what Miko does of course, seems to be pretty much the same. Taoist alchemists are actually a historical thing (they invented gunpowder, for example). I can't pretend to know what casting a spell actually feels like, but in most cases it seems to be something they learn to do through experience rather than an innate unchangeable property.

Youkai might work a bit differently since their very existence is magical, but characters like Yukari are shown to use traditional forms of magic like onmyouji (binding familiars and whatnot) so they can probably learn spells too. In addition to their innate powers, perhaps.

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #231 on: July 31, 2013, 08:18:05 AM »
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Taoist alchemists are actually a historical thing (they invented gunpowder, for example). I can't pretend to know what casting a spell actually feels like, but in most cases it seems to be something they learn to do through experience rather than an innate unchangeable property.

Well, from what I know of Taoism from movies and series I have seen, they set up an Altar, then, they chant to cast spells. Generally speaking, they would also have a sword, usually wooden. I think that acts as a channeller, but I don't know. They can also cast normally, but I think that is less effective or something. They also use paper amulets, like the things you see Reimu use.

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Again, I am not claiming she cannot do that, I am just saying how out of nowhere it feels especially a lot of Miko's moveset focuses on lasers and energy orbs. And bringing Marisa into this doesn't really help your case as she specializes in light and heat magic and she shoots fire out of the corrupted Mini-Hakkero, which was originally a furnace.Again, I really don't think this subject needs any further discussion. Let's just leave it as one of mysteries which doesn't need deeper look at.

But it isn't much of a mystery though. Taoism casters tend to drink water/wine and blow fire into the candle when channeling spells. It isn't all too surprising that Miko, a Taoism user would be able to shoot fire.

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Youkai might work a bit differently since their very existence is magical, but characters like Yukari are shown to use traditional forms of magic like onmyouji (binding familiars and whatnot) so they can probably learn spells too. In addition to their innate powers, perhaps.

It is my pet theory that Yukari was a Hakurei shrine maiden about 1000+ years ago.

Imosa

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #232 on: July 31, 2013, 12:30:00 PM »
Youkai might work a bit differently since their very existence is magical, but characters like Yukari are shown to use traditional forms of magic like onmyouji (binding familiars and whatnot) so they can probably learn spells too. In addition to their innate powers, perhaps.
Magicians are Youkai so at least some can learn magic.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 12:31:57 PM by Imosa »

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #233 on: August 02, 2013, 03:25:24 AM »
I actually like to imagine that many of the listed abilities (that is, the self proclaimed "capable of blah" ones) are magic that the character in question specializes in, rather than an innate thing.
For example, Mokou as a human probably doesn't have any innate ability to manipulate fire, and it doesn't seem likely the elixir would've suddenly allowed him to. Therefore it's likely he simply specializes in using fire magic.
We have lots of abilities that, as far as I am aware, aren't naturally attributed to any particular type of youkai; border manipulation, elementalism, distance warping, destroying things and so forth. Either those with these abilities belong to a generic youkai species, with members of which possessing arbitrary abilities, or youkai possess some degree of innate magical talent, and their listed abilities are simply determined by their primary usage of it.

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #234 on: August 02, 2013, 03:48:20 AM »
Well, the exact wording of it is something like "enough ability to manipulate X", which of course implies that they might also have enough ability to manipulate Y too, if it's easier. The translation has been a subject of some debate, but the point is simply that the descriptions are worded very inclusively rather than exclusively.

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #235 on: August 02, 2013, 04:27:45 AM »
For example, Mokou as a human probably doesn't have any innate ability to manipulate fire, and it doesn't seem likely the elixir would've suddenly allowed him to. Therefore it's likely he simply specializes in using fire magic.
Surprise, being able to shoot fire isn't one of her listed abilities.

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generic youkai species
I think calling youkai a species at all is sort of misleading. It's much too rigid and implies all youkai are sort of the same things, when really it's much more flexible and ambiguous than that. I would indeed say that they possess arbitrary abilities. That's how people have always made up youkai: very arbitrarily.

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Imosa

  • Any sufficiently advanced technology
  • is indistinguishable from magic
Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #236 on: August 02, 2013, 04:36:56 AM »
I actually like to imagine that many of the listed abilities (that is, the self proclaimed "capable of blah" ones) are magic that the character in question specializes in, rather than an innate thing.
For example, Mokou as a human probably doesn't have any innate ability to manipulate fire, and it doesn't seem likely the elixir would've suddenly allowed him to. Therefore it's likely he simply specializes in using fire magic.
Mokou is a strange case to me. I don't think there is any canon reason for why Mokou has the phoenix theme, is there?

We have lots of abilities that, as far as I am aware, aren't naturally attributed to any particular type of youkai; border manipulation, elementalism, distance warping, destroying things and so forth. Either those with these abilities belong to a generic youkai species, with members of which possessing arbitrary abilities, or youkai possess some degree of innate magical talent, and their listed abilities are simply determined by their primary usage of it.
Now this isn't true, is it? A lot of  youkai don't just have powers, the powers are central to their existence. Rumia doesn't exist and then get her control over darkness. The darkness control comes first (fear of darkness, darkness is trying to get people, whatever), and then Rumia comes out of that. Komachi (a little different but it might still apply) didn't learn how to manipulate distances, there was a need for distance manipulation, and that became Komachi.
...I can't seem to think of more examples which aren't gods, who obviously fit this criteria.

Can I just say that I just finished CoLA, and youkai has now officially lost all meaning. Whatever, I guess it's just a term for the weird things in the world.

ToyoRai

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Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #237 on: August 02, 2013, 04:49:47 AM »
Mokou is a strange case to me. I don't think there is any canon reason for why Mokou has the phoenix theme, is there?
Nope, aisde for being SYMBOOOLIIIC~ *Bufu'd*

On characters who's powers are part of their existence, all fairies are born from certain concepts of nature, meaning they would have been created from those things. In extension, they can manipulate the thing they presetent.

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #238 on: August 02, 2013, 05:35:50 AM »
Surprise, being able to shoot fire isn't one of her listed abilities.

I'm just reading the wiki here, which has "Eternal youth and immortality, resistance to and manipulation of fire". In any case, she's hardly the only example.

I think calling youkai a species at all is sort of misleading. It's much too rigid and implies all youkai are sort of the same things, when really it's much more flexible and ambiguous than that. I would indeed say that they possess arbitrary abilities. That's how people have always made up youkai: very arbitrarily.

My understanding is "Youkai" is a superset (so, a genus or family rather than a species), encompassing oni and tengu and kappa and such, in the same way the term "dog" encompasses a large variety of breeds. As such, characters who are listed simply as "youkai" under the species tab is the same as listing your pet as a dog; the implication is the pet is a type of dog. In the post you're replying to, I was saying the individuals with a power that doesn't seem linked to their species could belong to >>a<< species of youkai that possess arbitrary powers (some catch-all breed of humanlike supernatural beings), not that youkai is a species in and of itself.
In any case, proposing that each youkai in the series with a different power each belong to a separate species is a bit weird, in my opinion; it'd suggest that either the characters aren't nearly as unique in terms of their abilities as one would expect (what with a whole race of peers behind the scenes and all), or that we have dozens of species that include only a single member.

Now this isn't true, is it? A lot of  youkai don't just have powers, the powers are central to their existence. Rumia doesn't exist and then get her control over darkness. The darkness control comes first (fear of darkness, darkness is trying to get people, whatever), and then Rumia comes out of that. Komachi (a little different but it might still apply) didn't learn how to manipulate distances, there was a need for distance manipulation, and that became Komachi.
...I can't seem to think of more examples which aren't gods, who obviously fit this criteria.

I dunno, I find several of them fit that logic fine (fairies are embodiments of nature, youkai who are born from some sort of fear would presumably have abilities related to it), but several don't.
I've never heard of legends about borders, nor does it seem like a prevalent natural fear. The Prismrivers don't seem like they would have an innate connection specifically to instruments, if they were meant to embody the concept of a Poltergeist. The ability to crush things through empathically linking the core of an object to one's palm doesn't seem to have any obvious relation to vampirism. Flowers, luck, ki control; even excluding all the abilities that aren't demonstrated at least once, youkai with abilities that don't seem based on any existing type of youkai or ones that don't seem like they'd be born of a prevalent fear seem pretty common.

Re: Power of the ladies: How do they work?
« Reply #239 on: August 02, 2013, 05:42:51 AM »
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Mokou is a strange case to me. I don't think there is any canon reason for why Mokou has the phoenix theme, is there?

Probably because of the Hourai Elixir. That and Kaguya has the Dragon theme.

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Now this isn't true, is it? A lot of  youkai don't just have powers, the powers are central to their existence. Rumia doesn't exist and then get her control over darkness. The darkness control comes first (fear of darkness, darkness is trying to get people, whatever), and then Rumia comes out of that. Komachi (a little different but it might still apply) didn't learn how to manipulate distances, there was a need for distance manipulation, and that became Komachi.

Youkai also have abilities unrelated to their existence. For example, Medicine and Kogasa.
Komachi is not a youkai.

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Can I just say that I just finished CoLA, and youkai has now officially lost all meaning. Whatever, I guess it's just a term for the weird things in the world.

Yes, it is a term, but it is a monster for that term. So, you have youkai of falling asleep when you least expect to. And youkai of losing track of time or random things like that.

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On characters who's powers are part of their existence, all fairies are born from certain concepts of nature, meaning they would have been created from those things. In extension, they can manipulate the thing they presetent.

I wouldn't say all fairies, otherwise you will be hard pressed to explain the 3 fairies of light.