PC-98 input lag

[K.B.]

Do other people experience this?  I'd like to determine if this is a setup issue, which I hope could be resolved, or if this is an inescapable side-effect of pc-98 emulation (or of pc-98 Toho, as I imagine it could just as easily be a part of the games themselves [sup EoSD]).

[Yesterday, I thought this was just a bomb delay in PoDD (which might still exist in addition, I dunno), but it's more than that.]

I'm getting slight input lag/delay with both Neko Project and Next.  The lag is similar to PCB's input lag without vpatch, which I guess would be about two or three frames (I don't know of any way to quantify this).  I've tried PoDD and LLS; both have this slight lag.  I've read the stickied config threads as well as this one (as an aside: I request that this thread be stickied, as it's very good), and I've looked through all the other tech support threads related to pc-98, and I haven't seen any discussion on this.  Performance issues seem to be limited to fluid emulation (full framerate, no choppiness, etc), and once that's achieved, the discussion dies.  Fluid emulation isn't an issue for me; I'm able to get that.  I still gave those threads a shot: I tried tinkering with all the settings that folks have said can affect fluid emulation, and I'm still left with the same input delay (when the changes don't completely break the emulation, that is).

Anex is unusable for me (at least when compared to NP2/Next) due to choppiness/frame-skipping that I can't figure out how to resolve.

I'm only smart enough to push buttons and see what happens (and to reset the program each time so the changes take effect), so I probably haven't tried everything, especially if it's something unintuitive (ex: prior to reading the config threads, I wouldn't have thought to tweak sound settings to improve video performance).  And especially-especially if multiple things needed to be changed at once, since I only diverged one setting at a time from the recommended configurations.

System specs, in case they're relevant: windows 8, i5-3570k cpu, intel hd 4000 gpu (1gb of system ram dedicated), 2x8gb ddr3 1600 ram, asus p8z77-v lk mobo.

Any advice or knowledge on any of the above would be appreciated.

[Agent of the BSoD]

I'm not really certain there is a way to remove all input delay for these games. I play with minor input delay as it is, doesn't bother me too much. (and btw, SoEW bombs are quite delayed)

It's awesome that you looked at my guide from a while ago. While I haven't been able to get the games to run any faster than what I've put in that guide, it should probably be re-written before it gets stickied, as it's a little bit sloppy, and lacks the new Neko Project II emulator, since I made that guide before that emulator was compatible with Touhou.

Anex always has the flickering graphics. It's pretty much an incomplete emulator in that regard, along with playing music. It's lightweight, yes, but it's just not as robust as the others, and T98-Next is just incredibly resource heavy.

So all in all, I think you're just gonna be stuck with it. :\ (as with the rest of us)

[Zil]

A bit late. I saw this thread and meant to post something, but then forgot about it.

In my experience, each of the games has its own levels of lag.

HRtP - nothing relevant
SoEW - not too bad
PoDD - almost unnoticeable*
LLS - egregious
MS - annoying but not horrible

Using Anex86 (T98 is laggy and slows down sometimes, NP2 is a living nightmare) with these settings, and always fullscreen (windowing anything makes it unplayable with these settings, though other settings can make windowed a lot better). For me, using 32 bit color tends to make things flickery when certain backgrounds come up, like MS stage 2, and it completely destroys PoDD. Full color makes black backgrounds the same color as the borders of the screen, and actually converts Chiyuri's background from green to black, but it's my only option, since having neither of those checked is apparently equivalent to 32 bit color.

* For PoDD, I also need to be recording the game with Fraps for it to work properly. Otherwise its behavior ranges from laggy to completely unplayable. See this thread if you're interested in reading more about that.

That's been my experience with it anyway. I'm not sure what to tell you other than "try the things I've tried," since none of it makes any sense to me at all. Maybe if I understood how these things work and stuff I could hazard a guess, but as far as I can tell everything is completely balls random, and you just have to experiment until you get something that works, and then hope it continues to work in the future.

[K.B.]

Thanks for the replies.  I mostly agree with you two in that the input lag is minimal (in PoDD, at least), and I figured that the most likely answer would be that it's unavoidable so dwi, and I can live with that.  I was just hoping for the less likely, more desirable answer, as eliminating that extra frame or two might make the difference for me given my current goal (and it would certainly alleviate considerable frustration).  A silver bullet akin to vpatch would be lovely.


Agent: even if it doesn't quite meet your standards, that thread had the best Next config tutorial I could find a year or so ago when I googled for one, and the Anex section is more detailed and helpful than the stickied Anex thread, so it's a shame that it's buried (especially when no Next thread is stickied, which is highly wth-ish).  But eh, it's your baby, so I can respect your sentiments.  Regardless, if you do polish it up and put it in a new thread, it'll certainly be (even more) sticky-worthy.

Tangentially, I feel obligated to mention that the existing NP2 thread is excellent.  Nothing between the lines there, I just didn't want to ignore it / inadvertently throw it under the bus.


Zil: tried those Anex settings, no improvement.  Thanks for trying, though.  And I had read your various poddventures, including those with fraps, and still the only sensible explanation I can see is that your computer is possessed.  Please return Mima; she is missed.

[Agent of the BSoD]

Agent: even if it doesn't quite meet your standards, that thread had the best Next config tutorial I could find a year or so ago when I googled for one, and the Anex section is more detailed and helpful than the stickied Anex thread, so it's a shame that it's buried (especially when no Next thread is stickied, which is highly wth-ish).  But eh, it's your baby, so I can respect your sentiments.  Regardless, if you do polish it up and put it in a new thread, it'll certainly be (even more) sticky-worthy.

Thanks. My plan is to get together a new thread for configuring all of the emulators sometime this summer. After that's in order, I'll see if I can get someone to sticky it.

Tangentially, I feel obligated to mention that the existing NP2 thread is excellent.  Nothing between the lines there, I just didn't want to ignore it / inadvertently throw it under the bus.

I'll give credit to Arcorann for the np2 one and give proper links to both their thread and my own. Not really fair to not give credit to the person that worked through it in the first place. My thread will probably just have the same configuration that they have, just in my own words. (I might add a tweak in there or two if I can find one that works)

It's actually more of a benefit that my computer kinda sucks here. It's much easier for me to test lag and issues within the emulators, as my computer can lag for the most ridiculous reasons.

[nintendonut888]

I have a magical emulator tweak that has never failed to make people's jaw drop. I'll leave it here:

Open Anex86's config menu.
Open the Video Tab.
In the upper-left section, select "Sync" instead of "Async."
Change the value of "Sync" to 1.
Play da game.

I have absolutely no idea what any of it means, but through sheer brute force I discovered this and it eliminates virtually all input lag, in some ways even exceeding the Windows games with Vsync patch. I hope it works for you as well.

[Zil]

I think it's safe to assume most people are using that Donut, as Anex is nigh unusable without it, and it's mentioned in Agent's thread. :V