Final Fantasy 9 Mafia (GAME OVER: SCUM WIN)

[Shadoweh]

Apparently I am not being loud enough VOTE POLARIS AND STOP BOTHERING WITH THE LOUD AND THE PX.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

And what happened to NNR is basically scum to you, except now you're ignoring him.

                      _{caring                that person                                                 why                                            future}
Stopped omoiyari about ano hito. Was supposed to tell BT naze sometime in the near mirai maybe.

[NekoNekoRex]

qq

Obviously I can't change up my game and be a little more cautious, especially when I start the game off without any good leads. Nope, Overly Agressive is the only way I can play NekoRex without getting lynched as town (even though I get wagoned on D1 and D2 in every game anyway)

BT, consider the following: I think you're town because you're actually scum hunting competently. Obviously you're wrong on your opinion of me being scum, but I cant have a perfect batting average either. Your last game's scumhunting was clearly fake and badly done, while this game your scumhunting looks more genuine and well thought out. That's why I'm not voting you and why I think you're town.

Your "PX is town" argument looks clearly awful, however. Here's why:

He doesn't seem afraid or hasty to push whatever.

How does this make him town?

He made it clear he didn't want rawr lynched pretty much when it was first relevant so that strengthens the likelihood that, yes, he does have something on rawr, and if you'd notice he doesn't want him lynched because keeping him alive is beneficial to the town, which seems like a town reason.

If it's so obvious, then why doesn't PX reveal exactly why rawr can't be lynched? Making that link only makes it obvious rawr would have some kind of power role, and only puts a big target on rawr's head.

Dan and possibly others were reading him town but others were sure to call him out for it (a thing which is happening now) and if the scumteam's plan was to off Dan, the guy that insta-read PX as town, then this is extremely super dumb.

Dan read me as town too, your argument is invalid.

It's not like PX made an effort to get a scope of reads to make himself less lynchable. Competent Scum PX wouldn't have pulled such useless shit when the rest of his content was visually lacking and open for all out assault. It just makes no sense.

metametametametametametametameta

anyways I'm just going to go poof because my internet is limited and I'm kind of sick of this game now anyway. Obviously the only winning move here is to tunnel on one person the whole game and never make any reads or comments about any other player bar some barebones "X is town" reads, because doing anything else otherwise will get your integrity questioned because some of your reads might be less complete, and you may have forgotten reads on certain players, because of course it's either "all or nothing" with Mafia amirite? Clearly PX is the best player here and everyone should unvote him right now and vote me.

[NekoNekoRex]

Also congrats IHNN, having a world record in something is pretty cool indeed.

[BT]

##Unvote ##Vote Shadoweh

shadoweh vote takes priority  over others because my feelings for her are the strongest

nnr scum supports shadoweh scum and vice versa

1) Why are the feelings stronger
2) How does that support one another

BT, consider the following: I think you're town because you're actually scum hunting competently. Obviously you're wrong on your opinion of me being scum, but I cant have a perfect batting average either. Your last game's scumhunting was clearly fake and badly done, while this game your scumhunting looks more genuine and well thought out. That's why I'm not voting you and why I think you're town.

Duh, I know you read me as town and your reason for that is sound. At the same time though you've made that "like Scum-Serela" argument and the one line I quoted that are just out-of-place and disappear later on.

On PX: Same thing I told Affinity. His strong start raises the likelihood of him being town. The risky link to rawr early on raises the likelihood of him being town. Killing Dan despite PX's shaky play raises the likelihood of him being town. Yes, meta also raises the likelihood of him being town. None of this makes him town alone but all of them together make up a case, similar in nature to my current case on you which points to you!scum.

If you truly want PX to get lynched, show me why he's more likely to be scum in light of his actions and behavior overall. You're trying to deny specific points and that's a fruitless endeavor and is more like denial than anything else.

Also, regarding that point concerning rawr, PX made it clear that revealing the reason would not be good for the town. Sure, it makes rawr a potential target by leaving it as is it, but perhaps revealing the reason would make things even worse. Fact of the matter is that we don't know yet and we WILL know eventually because PX will either flip or claim before the game ends, and this shouldn't and can't be a point against him until that happens.

Congrats noname :toot:

[BT]

I want this matter to be settled BEFORE these 24 hours are over. Everyone should read my posts despite :words: and sheep make their opinion clear.

[BT]

Wait hold on Shadoweh

Why don't you just vote NNR? And why is Dormio town?

[Dorian White]

DORIAN: Your whole point about PX choosing to lynch Zak before NNR becomes moot when you realize, if we assume PX/NNR aren't scumbuddies (which hoo boy they aren't), that Scum PX wouldn't have a reason to make a fuss over jumping from one town wagon to another.

Is that so? Dormio already pointed out why he couldn't just go and clear NNR and I think ?getting rid of the Town Inventor? would be actually a good reason to prefer an Zakeri lynch. The point that he didn't took roles into account fits quite well into the picture, NNRs claim could be a safe claim and the role wouldn't be too much of a lose for town if he said the truth while Zakeris claim were provable and actually worthy to at last consider a try, cause that would point into the other direction. Sure he said that he thought it were a fake claim but seriously, ?softclaiming vig is just wishfulness? but ?claiming an exotic role like Inventor is a trick to get people off of him?? I don't think so.
Do you still think that my points are moot?

[BT]

Not entirely, but different question. Who are your townreads?

[BT]

Dormio, you exist. Same question: who are your townreads?

[Dorian White]

Not entirely, but different question. Who are your townreads?

Quick answer, case I'm about to collapse.

My Town reads are:
Affinity, because I see no reason to think that he's scum.

You (BT), I doubt that you would take the leader role as scum.

Conq/Polaris, same as Affinity.

Dormio, great town minds think alike.


So if you excuse me now, I really need some sleep.

[BT]

Going "I see no reason to think that Affinity/Conq is scum" when you haven't addressed everyone (you haven't addressed Serela all game and you haven't laid down a read on Shadoweh at all, for example) is kind of what. Are they better than the rest? Because you haven't laid a reason for that.

I'd also like to know what your current stance on NNR is. How much from your D1 case have you retracted? Do you agree or disagree with my case?

(Answer whenever you're back?)

[Affinity]

@BT:

However, consider scum's motivation for posting ~*~suspicions~*~. The problem here is that he chose to combine [reading me as town] and [churning out posts that read like :good scumhunting:]. Those posts didn't match the fact that he was, in fact, town-reading me.

You're right that scum post suspicions to look as if they are doing something.  But NNR is a special case because he was certainly not making any such pretences about his Zakeri vote, which counters your point about him trying to look as if he's really scumhunting, because that's a rather easily attackable thing.  Again I have to say, this incongruence between his scumhunting and his vote was not at all needed and does not lead to the impression you suggest.

Same thing I told Affinity. His strong start raises the likelihood of him being town. The risky link to rawr early on raises the likelihood of him being town. Killing Dan despite PX's shaky play raises the likelihood of him being town.

I don't agree with any of these.  How is the link to rawr 'risky'', when scum could link to town or scum with impunity?  And how does the NK thing work if scum can kill anyone they want?  Yes a strong start is good at all, but it petered out till today without redemption so how does it count?

In general, I find your ideas of what scum/town are likely to do and not questionable,  You are asking far too much of people to explain a reasonable vote, expressing your view of what is by itself WIFOM without flipping it around.  In fact I don't know why you are complaining about people not seeing the bigger picture regarding PX when PX himself is merely picking up random nitpicks in his crusade against NNR.

===

PX latest post against NNR is not impressive, given that it is mostly a simplification.  Him defined by only his drifting case on NNR, stretched far beyond feasibility over a period of two days through a variety of reasons, is reason enough to cement my vote on him.  I would also like him to answer my question here, because he seems prone to these sorts of conclusion-jumping

Upon reading Dorian's posts and his switch to PX today I find his sudden waving off of NNR rather jarring and unbelievable.  Compare this post and this, and there is a great lacuna as to where all his issues with NNR went.  Especially when he says that he 'understood what he felt like to be under such pressure', but why didn't he come to this understanding in day one?  Would like Dorian to explain.  Granted I don't see scum really doing this unless NNR is scum as well (which I don't believe), but it does seem questionable.

Also Shadoweh had might as well be in an echo chamber with those reads.  Whatever she's saying I can't see as having much impression on the movement of things here.  Two exchanges with Conq on some extremely minor point regarding vig choices that don't really go anywhere, and then when Polaris replaces in, boom omgus lynch this guy plz.  I'm like really whatever.

[I have no name]

Bandersnatch Infested Votecount
Affinity:     (0)
BT:     (0)
Polaris:    Shadoweh (1)
Darkoda:     (0)
Dorian:     (0)
Dormio:     (0)
NekoNekoRex:    PX, Serela, BT, rawr (4)
PX:    NekoNekoRex, Affinity, Dormio, Dorian (4)
rawr:    Darkoda (1)
SasAmra-san:     (0)
Serela:     (0)
Shadoweh:    Polaris (1)
Not voting:          SasAmra-san

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
You have  32  hours remaining.

[BT]

You're right that scum post suspicions to look as if they are doing something.  But NNR is a special case because he was certainly not making any such pretences about his Zakeri vote, which counters your point about him trying to look as if he's really scumhunting, because that's a rather easily attackable thing.  Again I have to say, this incongruence between his scumhunting and his vote was not at all needed and does not lead to the impression you suggest.

I... don't understand what you're trying to say here. Like he said himself countless times, it's easier to find things to talk about if the guy you're talking about is posting more. Focusing mostly on other things while his vote was standing there isn't necessarily something he chose to do.

My reason for discussing this point was that you say his read on me was natural and town-ish when in reality it... just... isn't, and at worst null. Why do you disbelieve that NNR is scum?

I don't agree with any of these.  How is the link to rawr 'risky'', when scum could link to town or scum with impunity?  And how does the NK thing work if scum can kill anyone they want?  Yes a strong start is good at all, but it petered out till today without redemption so how does it count?

Let's look at it differently: PX told everyone not to lynch rawr without elaborating at first, which could very well have been him expressing a townread, but later he explained that it was role-related. Do you claim that it is fake? In that case, why would PX choose to fake it? Is it a scum-scum gambit? Unless it IS a scum-scum gambit it's unecessary and risky because... do I really need to explain the risks? It makes people eye him instead of rawr, it locks him into a claim (and unless he has info on rawr this is a shot in the dark during claimtime)... It realy does make no sense. The only acceptable option remaining in the case of scum-town is that PX decided to gambit early (because he told everyone not to lynch rawr early on), which doesn't fit the fact that he seemed :srsbsns: about this game.

[Serela]

Shadoweh you tell me I'm being the worst scumbuddy but Affinity is pretty much hitting the nail on the head here. Nobody is going to listen to you on Polly because your insistence on voting him is starting to become kind of weird, and really it's just a weak case on an otherwise very townie person whose replacement actually has kind of a legit reason to vote you back due to the strange way you're acting.

Please join us in everything else that's going on! :C

Dorian I keep asking you stuff but you never respond to me! It doesn't help that some of the stuff I'm asking you is stuff you -should- be doing anyway, like providing general reads on the players as you haven't yet! Your answer to BT on why you're voting PX makes it look better, but there's a reason I've asked you multiple for more reads on people. Are you just skimming my posts because they're huge (either since you're scum or since you're town who thinks I'm town and therefore uninteresting, I can feel you there because I'm skimming most of bt's posts for the latter reason, he is super townie 5000), and missing them or something :c

Okay, actually, it turns out as a followup to BT's question he asked for your townreads so you DID actually go give those. But aksdfjafkljak

Re:Dormio
First half of your post (The part before PX votes NNR most of the day) happened during RVS. PX is even blatantly predispositioned to voting for whoever is a big wagon in RVS because it's part of his beliefs that it helps break the game out of that stage. While it's true that inbetween there and his NNR there should have been something since the game started going somewhere, him not being around isn't explicitly scummy (it wasn't -that- long) and I don't think there's significant dissonance between voting NNR and then lynching Zak instead since NNR actually posts and should be easier to read d2. Because, well, IT WAS D1. D1 doesn't tend to give particularly firm fabulous reads.

You've managed to explain your position enough that I don't think you need to ~*~die immediately~*~ but as seen here I think the former half of your response is pointless because rvs phase and the latter half is mostly based on stuff I think is pretty explainable from a townie point of view, so, well. Tunneling on PX today doesn't help, even going so far as to say "I don't care" about the person who's going to be competing with PX for being lynched.

People who aren't voting NNR/PX need to weigh in on which wagon they like more. Waiting to the last minute to lynch just because is boring when it's pretty much gonna be one of the two. Even if you don't vote switch just yet, start formulating a solid opinion because you're gonna have to decide soon.

[NekoNekoRex]

People voting me: Why do you care so much about my reads when PX Your Lord And Savior doesn't provide any himself? Nitpicking on my flimsier reads and not caring about the lack of explained reads in general on PX The Prognosticator is really annoying.

In fact, PX Soothsayer Of Scumminess, when I flip town, who's going to be your next target? You haven't even come up with another scumread this game. There's three scum in this game you know, and that's only made worse when you realize I'm not one of them.

[NekoNekoRex]

BT would you rather I came off as tunneling on Zak by plugging him in literally every single post? There are only so many things you can talk about when the player you're voting refuses to post more then once a day.

Telling me I'm scum for sitting on a lurker vote is WIFOM because I'm not going to have much to say about him either way.

[Darkoda]

Meh, since PX has the votes, him first.

##Unvote
##Vote PX

[BT]

No it isn't; you didn't say anything about him but you didn't say anything about anyone else either. When one "sits" on a lurker vote it's usually the scum-motivated "I'll put my vote here and not do much else" kind.

cut Actually it's a tie and Shadoweh would put her vote on NNR making it 5-4. ?_?

[Darkoda]

@BT - If your reasoning for why PX is town is based on previous game behaviour, that's not going to sway me at all. Don't know you guys previous behaviour so I'm ignoring anything about that and focusing on what I see here.

And no matter how it's spun, PX's behaviour towards rawr is suspicious and so far has no real explanation.

Seriously, when stuff like:

because he doesnt need to give a reason if he doesnt want too and you shouldnt be trying to force a reason out of him.

currently
town - px bt shadoweh conq
scum - people voting px

Is the best reason you can give, that's sounds very scummy to me. I stand by my opinion that both PX and rawr are scummy. If one ends up flipping town the other would likely be town too but again, I haven't seen anything to really convince me.

[BT]

Darkoda, there are plenty of circumstances in which this is perfectly normal behavior from townies. This is one of those times.

Trust me. It's not scummy. In fact scum usually refrain from being blatant about connections like that so if that's what you're thinking then it's not it.

[Serela]

Yes, everyone is generally pretty cagey about revealing role-related info until either LyLo, or if they're about to be lynched. It's stuff that generally doesn't help the town much to know yet, but benefits the scum.

[Polaris]

Also I am quite clearly not scum with Dorian as I tried to lynch him yesterday. If you had actually read me when you voted you would know that instead of guessing.

nnr scum supports shadoweh scum and vice versa but i don't think dorian fits into the puzzle ?_?

you see i already covered that by saying "dorian doesn't fit into the puzzle" and you should know what i mean by that.

also your post is more of an omgus though because you were just like 'la-dee-dah let's vote conq' and then you react to my post and vote on you with 'omg die the death sentence to death great equalizer is the death'

1) Why are the feelings stronger
2) How does that support one another

i can't explain these feelings that come from the bottom of my heart

also maybe i should have said "nnr scum does not contradict shadoweh scum, and vice versa" while dorian is, like i said, sort of out there.

honestly as much as I'd like to feel strongly about either nnr or px i feel like they're not worth my time, they're objectively both lamers but they're always lamers so i can't decide whether they're town lamers or scum lamers >_> it's like i want them dead but i don't want to waste a lynch on them, this must be what zakeri felt when he made a list of people to shoot overnight `_`

leaning towards lynching nnr though but uuuuugh. i kind of want px to roleclaim just for my own convenience but i don't suppose anyone else thinks it's a good idea

of course we can always lynch shadoweh, we don't have to restrict ourselves to lynching between nnr and px

[NekoNekoRex]

No it isn't; you didn't say anything about him but you didn't say anything about anyone else either. When one "sits" on a lurker vote it's usually the scum-motivated "I'll put my vote here and not do much else" kind.

you didn't say anything about him

Clearly I had to say stuff about him because I voted him and I made multiple posts discussing why I thought he was scum. The original vote was a sheep, but I came up with my own reasons and didn't end up parroting Dan either.

you didn't say anything about anyone else either

This is a complete crock of crap, and you know it.
People I read D1: BT, Dormio, Dan, PX, Affinity, Darkoda, Amra, Rawr, Shadoweh
Townjesus PX made one readpost at the very start of D1 and then neglected to read anyone else for the rest of the day.

Where's the discrepancy?

[NekoNekoRex]

Darkoda, there are plenty of circumstances in which this is perfectly normal behavior from townies. This is one of those times.

Trust me. It's not scummy. In fact scum usually refrain from being blatant about connections like that so if that's what you're thinking then it's not it.

This is why you don't get into role spekulashans

[NekoNekoRex]

I'm about to turn around my town read on BT for his fictional postings

[Polaris]

semi-conspiracy post: bt is hard defending px because they're both scum i suddenly find it odd that bt and shadoweh are both being very vocal about px being town. i was kind of iffy about scum!px because I thought general opinion of him was not scum, but then I realized bt/shadoweh does not constitute general opinion `_` kind of interested in px now

[Polaris]

guys i am not getting anywhere just from mindlessly rereading this game, where is everyone

also just to make sure, i don't really think bt is that scummy, i just don't get why bt needs to defend px so much ?_? i kind of think px is sort of scummy tho

[PX]

I really have nothing to say :/

Of the four people voting me, 3 have dropped everything and gone to absolutely talking about me. Can't really add anything to NNR other than he's acting like a bitch. And most of the day has basically devolved to me vs him, and I don't think people are changing their opinions no matter what is said. I can say that with NNR, he has officially moved to everybody voting him is scum, and his thoughts of Dormio have moved from "probably scummy" to totally town. Because he's not voting him.