Author Topic: STG Thread 12 (Read 65577 times)

pokemon123 · « **Reply #270 on:** December 30, 2014, 06:06:12 AM »

playing the original version actually on this one. Maybe i'm just tired,

Silent Harmony · « **Reply #271 on:** December 30, 2014, 06:13:24 AM »

Sorry I couldn't be more help. If it helps, here's one route if you like to watch replays/guides. The game's honestly not too bad once you know how to approach it.

Kappa · « **Reply #272 on:** December 30, 2014, 07:29:57 AM »

Bee [trophies?] are in the Android (demo) version of DFK, I can confirm that much.
DFK does seem to be more cheese-heavy and therefore easier to rough through, but I'm not going to attempt that until I slay the original DDP. For me, DDP picks up in stage 3, and plateaus there for most of Stage 4, and I'm not entirely sure what comes after that.
If I might inquire, what actually causes the big red cruiser in DDP Stage 3 to drop a 1UP? I did another run today and the compartment where I found it last time was empty. :/

Silent Harmony · « **Reply #273 on:** December 30, 2014, 06:17:30 PM »

There are containers along the big red ship. You must destroy all of them with either your shot or laser and destroy the compartment containing the 1-up without bombing either. Destroying any of them with a bomb will make the 1-up disappear, so your best shot is to learn how to no-bomb the entire section.

Kappa · « **Reply #274 on:** December 30, 2014, 11:26:21 PM »

Quote from: Mimeslayer on December 30, 2014, 06:17:30 PM

There are containers along the big red ship. You must destroy all of them with either your shot or laser and destroy the compartment containing the 1-up without bombing either. Destroying any of them with a bomb will make the 1-up disappear, so your best shot is to learn how to no-bomb the entire section.

Hm. Looked up a video, and I'm pretty sure I've identified these "containers" as the big orange drums off to the side.
As such, Could probably just drop Laser bombs down the middle of the corridor and use the spread shot to nail the boxes. Thanks for the advice!

pokemon123 · « **Reply #275 on:** January 03, 2015, 05:28:38 AM »

Okay so yeah I get hyper now but even then ddp resurrection feels incredibly difficult. The bullets are ridiculously fast and i feel i'm getting walled constantly.

Kappa · « **Reply #276 on:** January 03, 2015, 06:02:01 AM »

Quote from: pokemon123 on January 03, 2015, 05:28:38 AM

Okay so yeah I get hyper now but even then ddp resurrection feels incredibly difficult. The bullets are ridiculously fast and i feel i'm getting walled constantly.

From what I gather, the DDP series makes Touhou look like a walk in the park. I can say that from experience, previously being only a Touhou Normal/[Hard?] player.
Thankfully, the Hypers in DDPDFK let you steamroll over bullets, so you don't have to dodge them all.

pokemon123 · « **Reply #277 on:** January 03, 2015, 06:26:39 AM »

Maybe. I really wish there was some kind of easy mode so I could enjoy myself because i'm having trouble finding something I really enjoy. I really like mushi futari but even on black label the bullet speeds get insane.

I just don't think I like resurrection in general though because of the mechanics and not just because of difficulty. I'll probably keep practicing black label futari for now.

Silent Harmony · « **Reply #278 on:** January 03, 2015, 06:56:20 AM »

I'm shocked to hear DFK's Apple port didn't include an Easy (Novice) difficulty; even the 360 port has one. Cave games (and Arcade games in general) are meant to be extremely hard so that you spend more quarters, but fair enough that you get hooked as you see a 1cc/1-all/2-all as a possibility. As I mentioned before, the idea of an Easy (Novice) difficulty is really a relatively new idea even for console/mobile ports of the games. EDIT: I'm stupid.

Games like DFK and Mushihimesama Futari Black Label are called "easy" not because they're on the level of Touhou Easy, but because compared to other arcade shmups they are much, much easier and/or more forgiving of mistakes. For instance, if you want truly fast bullets play a Raiden game or any game by Psikyo.

In an effort to help, unless I'm mistaken, typically in Resurrection when there are fast bullets most of the time they're aimed and are meant to be streamed. The rest are read-and-dodge and can be bombed; usually these occur on boss fights. For instance, DFK stage 3's boss has fast bullets in her first form that are the latter read/dodge type, but are slow enough to see the gaps. Her 2nd form's opening attack seems hard until you realize you can pretty much stream all of the pink bullets no matter how she moves. The third form is again read/dodge but is so fast that I often eat at least 1 auto-bomb. It takes practice and experimentation but eventually you see what they were thinking.

Another example of fast bullets that aren't bad is the beginning of stage 2. When the big ships arrive, they seem tough; lots of fast circle bullets with another shot mixed in. It's a trick; simply stand still until the bullets almost hit you and nudge slightly to the side; you will find out everything is aimed and will basically "graze" the entire attack. The main problem is that a tank/helicopter may snipe you with their tiny pink bullets if you're not careful (I hate when that happens).

You may already know all of that, and I'm sorry if I'm sounding redundant. If you do have any specific parts that trouble you in the game I'd be more than happy to help. I don't own any Mushi games so I'm unfortunately not much help there.

Also all this DFK talk has me trying once again for that elusive arcade 1-all. I switched over to B-S from C-S and feel like it's overall a better ship for me to my shock. Some parts are definitely harder due to less spread but the higher speed (and the seemingly stronger laser) help make up for it.

I hope someone can answer this: is there a trick to N-Exy's 2nd phase opener that I'm missing? If I don't accidently ram one of the fast pink bullets I seem to always ram a tiny blue bullet that I didn't see due to focusing on said pink bullets.

Also is it just me or is the stage 3 midboss ridiculously harder than the stage 4 midboss (or is the stage 4 one that ridiculously easy)?

pokemon123 · « **Reply #279 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:03:03 AM »

remember i'm playing the original. I might consider firing up my 360 and buying some of these 360 ports since they have novice modes.

Silent Harmony · « **Reply #280 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:05:32 AM »

By "original" do you mean an actual arcade version? That would explain a lot; my bad if so. :blush:

pokemon123 · « **Reply #281 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:10:13 AM »

nah i've always been a little hard to understand XD. But yeah that's what i meant.

Kappa · « **Reply #282 on:** January 03, 2015, 06:31:51 PM »

Quote from: Mimeslayer on January 03, 2015, 06:56:20 AM

I hope someone can answer this: is there a trick to N-Exy's 2nd phase opener that I'm missing? If I don't accidently ram one of the fast pink bullets I seem to always ram a tiny blue bullet that I didn't see due to focusing on said pink bullets.

Since I haven't played a lot of DFK, I pulled up a video and, from looking at that, figured that this is how I would handle it:
The pink shots consistently fan out, but they go faster at first, and then it spins slower. At first, dodge between the pink streams, and then when the spinning slows down try just following the flow of the streams and dodging the occasional blue piece of popcorn along the way.
Strangely, I'm reminded of Futo's final from Ten Desires.

Also, I hope we're not talking about 2nd Loop here. If we are, then discount everything I'm saying, and I don't have a clue how to help you.

pokemon123 · « **Reply #283 on:** January 04, 2015, 06:46:22 AM »

meh think i'm going to take a break from non touhou shmups, all of them except for mushihimesama futari have been bad experiences and i'm just going to try to get better at touhou then tackle some of these shmups later on.

Erppo · « **Reply #284 on:** January 05, 2015, 04:53:23 AM »

Quote from: Mimeslayer on January 03, 2015, 06:56:20 AM

I hope someone can answer this: is there a trick to N-Exy's 2nd phase opener that I'm missing? If I don't accidently ram one of the fast pink bullets I seem to always ram a tiny blue bullet that I didn't see due to focusing on said pink bullets.

Not really, the attack is fairly random. Usually the best bet is to follow the lanes between the red bullets and focus on the blue ones, but you'll probably have to cross the red stream at least once in the second wave.

Silent Harmony · « **Reply #285 on:** January 06, 2015, 05:41:41 AM »

Once again I barely limp into Shotia (this time 0/1) and Game Over.

That was my second run of the game today (the first I won't even discuss) and it feels like I'm getting nowhere.

Honestly I want to say my problem is simply that I really really suck plain and simple. If I have to be more specific, I'd point at stages 3 and 5 being where I suck especially. It seems like no matter how many hours of practice I put into those 2 stages I never get better. Stage 3 especially pisses me off as it eats up more resources than it should.

I like this game sure, but I really hate having this 1-all hang over my head for so long.

Kappa · « **Reply #286 on:** January 06, 2015, 09:00:02 AM »

Quote from: Mimeslayer on January 06, 2015, 05:41:41 AM

Once again I barely limp into Shotia (this time 0/1) and Game Over. That was my second run of the game today (the first I won't even discuss) and it feels like I'm getting nowhere.

Honestly I want to say my problem is simply that I really really suck plain and simple. If I have to be more specific, I'd point at stages 3 and 5 being where I suck especially. It seems like no matter how many hours of practice I put into those 2 stages I never get better. Stage 3 especially pisses me off as it eats up more resources than it should.

I like this game sure, but I really hate having this 1-all hang over my head for so long.

Isn't Daioujou SUPER hard compared to the rest of the 'Pachis? Tis why I started myself with the original DoDonPachi. I feel like I can actually 1-ALL that thing, and I've been able to get to Stage 5's boss, the Citrus Dropper, on a single credit a few times with only a few days of effort.

2-ALL on the other hand... look, you know when you're playing a game and you feel like you weren't supposed to ever beat it - like by design? Yeah, I don't aspire for a 2-ALL. I'm willing to leave that one to the superplayers.

pokemon123 · « **Reply #287 on:** January 06, 2015, 09:20:52 AM »

Quote from: Kappa on January 06, 2015, 09:00:02 AM

Isn't Daioujou SUPER hard compared to the rest of the 'Pachis? Tis why I started myself with the original DoDonPachi. I feel like I can actually 1-ALL that thing, and I've been able to get to Stage 5's boss, the Citrus Dropper, on a single credit a few times with only a few days of effort.

2-ALL on the other hand... look, you know when you're playing a game and you feel like you weren't supposed to ever beat it - like by design? Yeah, I don't aspire for a 2-ALL. I'm willing to leave that one to the superplayers.

I think he's playing resurrection.

Yeah daioujou is really hard IMO(especially white label), Stage 1 and 2 aren't to bad (about a touhou hard mode i'd say) but then stage 3 and onwards 0_0

Also I find it weird how mushi futari seems to control so awkward with a keyboard but when I tried daioujou last week it felt much better.

t_prinny · « **Reply #288 on:** January 06, 2015, 07:00:44 PM »

I guess I'll talk about what I've been up to. I figure writing some of this down somewhere may help me figure out how to deal with things. Outside of attempting PoDD runs (among other stuff), I've sort of been working on Daioujou Black Label. My best run ends at 1-5, both in score and how far I've managed to survive on a single credit. I'm getting a better understanding on how chaining works, but not enough to maintain it (mostly going for survival). Current problem spots right now is the stage 3 boss and a good portion of stage 4 (and I still need to learn stage 5). The main thing that gives me problems with the stage 3 boss is its fourth attack during the first phase, but that is mostly because I'm not really expecting it when I should. I've for the most part got safe enough strategies I can use for the first 3 stages (and can no-miss until the stage 3 boss). I feel stage 4 shouldn't be too difficult as far as survival is concern, but I'm sort of inconsistent with my survival in it (especially the part after the 1up pickup).. Will look at some runs later to get ideas after a small break (hopefully). I did managed to pull off a full chain of stage 1 during my attempts (can't really replicate the results, though). Bee collecting could have been better, but I'm usually too scared to go after that last bee. Stage 1 of run

Also was playing Cho Ren Sha a bit. Nothing too noteworthy at the moment. I've only managed up to 2-0. I'm also using AutoHotKey to give myself autofire.

Also got some decent progress in Eden's Aegis. Playing with wait on at the moment, but I plan to clear Original with wait off later. One run I did with wait off did get pretty far, so I should be able to clear Original with it off after a few attempts. So far only cleared Original with wait on with Nanathy and Eve (and managed a heaven wait off clear with Nanathy).

Kappa · « **Reply #289 on:** January 06, 2015, 07:52:21 PM »

Quote from: pokemon123 on January 06, 2015, 09:20:52 AM

I think he's playing resurrection.

Yeah daioujou is really hard IMO(especially white label), Stage 1 and 2 aren't to bad (about a touhou hard mode i'd say) but then stage 3 and onwards 0_0

Also I find it weird how mushi futari seems to control so awkward with a keyboard but when I tried daioujou last week it felt much better.

Olol, I'm dumb.
still, DFK can be really tough until you figure out exactly when and where to use your Hypers. Or a least for me. But I haven't really practiced it a lot. Too busy with that DDP.
And regarding DOJ... yeah it's a sh!tstorm. Why, by the way, is Black Label supposedly easier? Because WL is just so hard?

pokemon123 · « **Reply #290 on:** January 06, 2015, 08:03:45 PM »

Quote from: Kappa on January 06, 2015, 07:52:21 PM

Olol, I'm dumb.
still, DFK can be really tough until you figure out exactly when and where to use your Hypers. Or a least for me. But I haven't really practiced it a lot. Too busy with that DDP.
And regarding DOJ... yeah it's a sh!tstorm. Why, by the way, is Black Label supposedly easier? Because WL is just so hard?

The second loops is apparently(saying apparently because i've never played the second loop) easier because you don't lose your lives when you reach black label second loop. As for me I feel like in the first loop on white label bullets go much faster and it's much harder to get hypers.

Kappa · « **Reply #291 on:** January 06, 2015, 09:54:44 PM »

Saying that the second loop of ANY Cave game is easier than ANYTHING is, to my understanding, a gross understatement.

KLH · « **Reply #292 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:22:05 PM »

Quote from: pokemon123 on January 06, 2015, 08:03:45 PM

The second loops is apparently(saying apparently because i've never played the second loop) easier because you don't lose your lives when you reach black label second loop. As for me I feel like in the first loop on white label bullets go much faster and it's much harder to get hypers.

With regards to resources, White Label's second loop is indeed harder, but Black Label's attack pattern difficulty in the second loop tends to be harder because the rank increases more. First loop in Black Label was also made easier than in White Label.
The difficulty in obtaining hypers in White Label is the result of a glitch in the hyper drop meter. I am still not fully aware of the specifics.

Erppo · « **Reply #293 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:55:21 PM »

Quote from: KLH on January 07, 2015, 10:22:05 PM

The difficulty in obtaining hypers in White Label is the result of a glitch in the hyper drop meter. I am still not fully aware of the specifics.

Why do people keep saying this.

Actually the answer is probably "because people keep saying it".

Jaimers · « **Reply #294 on:** January 14, 2015, 09:52:26 PM »

~~Holy crap this thread is alive.~~

STG things I did/uploaded since last time:

Suguri - Hard Mode - Arcade Mode ALL Clear 547,661
Espgaluda - ALL Clear 53.5 Million
Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label - 2-ALL Clear 747 Million
Darius Gaiden - ALL Clear 11.5 Million
Dangun Feveron - No-Miss TLB ALL Clear - 10,727,590
QP Shooting ~ DANGEROUS!! - Arcade Super ALL Clear 69.9 Million

Also I just did a Rayforce 8 Million 1cc. That game is amazing.
QP Shooting is surprisingly good, check it out on Steam and stuff. Also Suguri.

Quote from: KLH on January 07, 2015, 10:22:05 PM

The difficulty in obtaining hypers in White Label is the result of a glitch in the hyper drop meter. I am still not fully aware of the specifics.

Yeah I'm not sure where that rumor came from. White label just gives you less hypers because it gives you less hypers.

pokemon123 · « **Reply #295 on:** January 18, 2015, 12:49:21 AM »

man I really wish I could buy saidaioujou so I could play it's novice mode. Starting to get sick of just constantly dying everytime I try to play anything on arcade. It seems like the perfect difficulty, not crazy hard but not incredibly easy that I get bored.

Given up on futari original. Playing blue wish resurrection. Really love this game. Incredibly fun and I love it's accessibility.

KLH · « **Reply #296 on:** January 18, 2015, 02:59:51 AM »

Quote from: Jaimers on January 14, 2015, 09:52:26 PM

Yeah I'm not sure where that rumor came from. White label just gives you less hypers because it gives you less hypers.

Quote from: Erppo on January 07, 2015, 10:55:21 PM

Why do people keep saying this.

Actually the answer is probably "because people keep saying it".

Yeah, that seems about right, just heard a bunch of other people saying this. Would explain why it never made sense; I'd watch the hyper meter and never see any "glitches" of any sort, but never really bothered with anything more than a cursory analysis since I was too busy with Black Label.

Quote from: Jaimers on January 14, 2015, 09:52:26 PM

STG things I did/uploaded since last time:

damn why didn't you post these

Erppo · « **Reply #297 on:** January 19, 2015, 12:29:55 AM »

I guess it's just that not many people have put that much time into WL. I for one still don't know how the max bomb bonus exactly works in that one.

Okay yeah lets post here more. I've currently ended up playing DFKBL Strong. It's surprisingly not that much more difficult than Bomb. I've been doing this pretty slowly though but it seems like I'm getting somewhere with it soon. One of the most confusing things about the game is how you should be optimizing your cancels with Strong since usually you can't just camp in place somewhere like with the other styles. I guess I'm not aiming high enough for that to really matter.

aUsernameIsFineToo · « **Reply #298 on:** January 19, 2015, 02:58:21 AM »

Just dropping by to say that RaidenX is a great fan-port of the classic Raiden II some of you might remember seeing (or playing) at the arcade. In fact, I'd say it's one of the best Flash games period. Compared with the actual game, this gets everything right, from the bullets shot by enemy ships to the three shot types selectable on-the-fly by picking up the different-colored powerup items. Even the original arcade chiptune soundtrack is there, all for an authentic multi-platform experience. It's even vectorized, for smooth-looking graphics across smartphones and TVs alike! I have fond memories of playing this in the library while waiting for my parents to pick me up back when I was still in grade school.

Jaimers · « **Reply #299 on:** January 19, 2015, 05:55:29 PM »

I wouldn't really say that that flash game is accurate in any way to Raiden II. :V
Besides the hilariously overpowered vulcan, homing missiles and generally really easy difficulty you'll notice a lot of inconsistencies as to how it plays if you've played the original Raiden II before. Raiden II and Raiden DX also fairly recently got added to Mame so it's not like they are incredibly inaccessible to play anymore. It's cool it exists though.

Best brower shmup in my opinion is still TM Shooter.