Theoretical Bad-future to Touhou

[AMZYoshio]

Ok, let's all pretend that ZUN might release a new game, Touhou 14, but then suddenly gets struck with a huge urge to stop making the series, and completely drop it all together. That, or perhaps something terrible happens and he's no longer able to (OD on Sake~ (horrible joke)).

What do you guys think would happen to Touhou as a whole? What would the fans do? Where would the fandom go? Would there be someone to try and pick up the slack? Would they even be nearly as good? Would we just stew around in the current character list and continue to make doujins based off it?

[Cadmas]

People would likely Stew, Then vacuum, what follows in likely to be many wannabes, and then a miracle.   

[Romantique Tp]

People would still make SDM doujins.

[Darkoda]

People would likely still make doujins and fan-games, but without ZUN, it just wouldn't be the same.

[Widermelonz]

Well I doubt anything drastic is gonna happen. I mean, there are a bunch of popular fanbases that are still going strong even after their respective series have stopped/ended. And also Touhou is pretty damn big, so I doubt the fanbase will die out anytime soon or anything like that.

[Ibaraki Ibuki]

The fandom would create games and doujins in honor of ZUN, followed by some "Touhou 15"s with many people complaining their games are not in the spirit of ZUN's games. At this point, the fandom would continue as before (and eventually decides who will be ZUN's successor

Spoiler:

namely everyone

) or splinter into many different factions (until another savior unites them all under a new Touhou).

[pineyappled]

I would laugh so hard if he started suing people for copyright infringement.

[Esper]

Yes.

[Aba Matindesu!]

White Canvas would have less visitors?

[Tengukami]

Hm. Well, let's examine the two scenarios separately:

ZUN retires: Dude makes a post on his blog announcing he's out of ideas/going blind/doesn't care anymore/won the lottery, and that he's not making anything past his swan song game, Touhou 14. No music CDs, no manga, no Reitaisai appearances. However, he won't be changing his attitude about doujin works of Touhou material. So thousands of otaku go into a fury of production, banging out manga, music arrangements, Flash videos and games at a higher rate of speed for a while. A couple unofficial "Touhou 15"s are released. And then it tapers off, little by little, until the fandom is a smaller, but more dedicated, nest of otaku - some of whom cling to hope that some day, ZUN will change his mind and start making games again.

ZUN dies: Suddenly - and without warning - he is no more. If he died in a regular ol' way, there'd be a burst of doujin works of great magnitude that would eventually quell into a core of fanatical Touhou zealots. If he died heroically, it would be the same, only on a much larger scale. Posthumous awards may even be involved. But if he died in some shameful, embarrassing, or shocking manner; where his reputation and even his merit as a human being is severely damaged due to the circumstances of his death, then this would likely obliterate most of the fandom in one strike. The few remaining true believers would have to move underground to avoid public scorn and ridicule.

[haoreos2]

would have to move underground to avoid public scorn and ridicule.

'Cause at the moment its a well-respected gentlemen's hobby, amirite? But yeah, that analysis sounds about right, though the scandal would need to be pretty severe considering what other pop icons get away with, and that ZUN probably isn't well known enough for the news outside japan to pick up a story about his shenanigans.

[Aba Matindesu!]

It would probably need to be something Michael Jackson-level. Except beer instead of kids.

And even then he's a total boss.

[Ibaraki Ibuki]

Something like ZUN, while drunk on sake, breaking into a beer factory and

Spoiler:

peeing into the beer

?

Spoiler:

*walks out to get brain bleach*

On a more serious note, it doesn't really matter whether what ZUN does to be involved in an incident is not newsworthy outside of Japan because the Western fandom keeps a close watch on what goes on in the Eastern fandom. If Japan is in an uproar over a scandal involving ZUN, the rest of the world will follow suit.

Personally, I feel ZUN is more likely to die from overwork than from shame, but since Japanese society tends to value honor it's still a possibility.

[haoreos2]

It does matter, I think, because the point was that people would have to go underground to avoid ridicule.
Even if the fandom is fully aware of the scandal, there still wouldn't be any need to be extra secretive about being a fan because it still wouldn't be general knowledge among the public.

Remember Touhou fans are few and far between if you take a step back from the internet and look at the general public. A random person off the street is probably more likely to know the plot of episode 6 of Star Trek than who ZUN is.

[Tengukami]

Maybe so, but it still does enjoy a certain level of popularity in certain demographics and social circles, and while usually kept on the down-low, my point is that a truly shameful and reputation-destroying death for ZUN would drive the resulting fanbase core even further into the shadows. In case that wasn't clear.

EDIT: For comparison purposes, see Gary Glitter fans. Not a huge fanbase, nor a very well-known musician, and then a major scandal broke. Now his fans are far, far fewer, and most of them are far less public about their fandom.

[haoreos2]

Oh, your point was perfectly clear, and one I agree with. I was just adding that it would need to be a pretty big deal to have a significant impact; Michael Jackson was involved with some pretty serious charges, but his fans are still pretty open and his music is still everywhere. Considering ZUN doesn't have a huge level of fame, it wouldn't whip up such a media storm, so the resulting backlash would be less severe.

[Tengukami]

Yes, it would have to be something really shocking. However in interviews I've seen with him, he seems very normal and assuming, so this possible future is not a likely one. But if he was doing something on a grand scale, like running drugs and weapons between rogue nations through a series of underground spy cells around the world for years without anyone knowing until he was gunned down in a stand-off with police, that might leave people conflicted - sure, it's wrong to do those things, but it'd be difficult to not admire him for it. This might leave the fanbase in a state of quantum uncertainty for a while, with eventually smaller core of doujin artists being edgy in their continuing fandom.

[Darth_Sirov]

Oh, your point was perfectly clear, and one I agree with. I was just adding that it would need to be a pretty big deal to have a significant impact; Michael Jackson was involved with some pretty serious charges, but his fans are still pretty open and his music is still everywhere. Considering ZUN doesn't have a huge level of fame, it wouldn't whip up such a media storm, so the resulting backlash would be less severe.

Though I wonder how Japan would react to such with regards to ZUN?

[Kilgamayan]

The turn this thread took makes me sad because it reminds me that I'm no longer publicly allowed to be a fan of Chris Benoit's work.

Anyway, I think we have sufficiently many character already that if the flow of characters was cut off here, people would be okay. We might even still get one or two new ones from Tasofro or something.

[RSFiye]

I can't comment on the effect of it in Japan because, frankly, I don't understand their culture.

"ZUN took his time to start with Mountain of Faith. After he had finished and released Shoot the Bullet he was not sure if he should make another game and took a break. He waited some years to see if the fandom would die out. But the opposite happened, and he worked on Mountain of Faith anyway." - http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Mountain_of_Faith

Forgive me for quoting a wiki.

It'd be something new, for sure. You're talking about someone who's created a thing that had become insanely popular in the timespan of a decade. (Excluding PC-98 releases).

It not like the 40+ years Michael Jackson has had to give his effect across generations. My grandmother, father, and myself knew his music. And if you find someone who doesn't know who Michael Jackson is, they're met by a swarm of "Buah!?"

While I'm like one out of two people in Reactor Department on my ship that actually know about Touhou. (And don't just refer to that insane japanese game with the flashing lights)

Although, would people fight for the rights over the universe, characters, and etc...?

[YukkuriPaste]

Hopefully this is all hypothetical and will never happen, if it does I will become a Touhou terrorist.

[Firestorm29]

....
Although, would people fight for the rights over the universe, characters, and etc...?

Nope, with that whole White Canvas thing going on, if he dies someone will still own rights legally... the question would more if the new owners decide to keep Touhou the same or try and market it mainstream style.

I have to say I have slight concerns about ZUN showing up in future Comikets thanks to that. Sorta the same reason why IOSYS isn't on the doujin floor (or in the convention period?) anymore.

[Tengukami]

I was under the impression IOSYS got the banhammer for unauthorized use. I don't know why this would have any effect on whether or not ZUN himself would go to Comiket.