Author Topic: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?  (Read 35369 times)

Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« on: July 20, 2009, 08:42:54 AM »
It kind of feels to me like he has. I don't think we'll ever find out what happened to Mima :( Also from a lot of what's said about Marisa in CoLA etc. it doesn't make any reference to her relationship with Mima which is a little sad.

AntKiller

Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 08:50:35 AM »
LLS is still my fav touhou game  :V

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 09:03:36 AM »
ZUN doesn't like talking about the PC-98 games in interviews. It is safe to say they are no longer canon. EoSD was likely a reboot of the setting, and seeing anyone from PC-98 again is wishful thinking; the only characters that have made the transition are ones he'd mentioned were his favorites. Mima is a possibility since I think she falls in that category, but don't count on it.

Why he doesn't like referencing the PC-98 games is anyone's guess. Perhaps he thought events like the ones in PoDD and MS didn't fit with the new canon he had in mind.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 09:05:15 AM by Stuffman »

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 09:09:46 AM »
It's clear that PC-98 contradicts the new canon in many ways. It's safe to say it's a reboot of the setting, but I disagree with it being retconned. After all, Alice and Yuka make references to their encounteres in PCB and PoFV respectively.
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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 09:26:02 AM »
ZUN doesn't like talking about the PC-98 games in interviews. It is safe to say they are no longer canon. EoSD was likely a reboot of the setting, and seeing anyone from PC-98 again is wishful thinking; the only characters that have made the transition are ones he'd mentioned were his favorites. Mima is a possibility since I think she falls in that category, but don't count on it.

Why he doesn't like referencing the PC-98 games is anyone's guess. Perhaps he thought events like the ones in PoDD and MS didn't fit with the new canon he had in mind.

Aside from Mima I don't think it really contradicts the new canon that much. it's just a bizarre black hole in the series' past.

Quintafeira12

Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 10:42:41 AM »
I prefer to think it as a distant past, and Reimu and Marisa are Legacy Characters (similar to Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. They all have the same name and looks troughout the game but are different people), and thus, youkai with long life spans like Alice and Yuka are able to find the current Shrine Maiden and a witch look-alike of the old Marisa. Probably direct descendants and heirs to the old spellcards that belonged to each of them.

This would bring some problems about yuka's lines on her first appearence... but any other theory besides the reboot would too.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 10:48:28 AM »
Waaaay too many people buy into the theory that PC-98 Reimu and Marisa are different from the modern ones. There is absolutely no proof of this, Alice and Yuka wouldn't be so dumb to mistake a lookalike, plus Reimu and Marisa recognize Yuka in PoFV as well.

Not to mention ZUN states somewhere in the EoSD profiles (I think Reimu's) that despite the long break between MS and EoSD, not much time has passed in the games. Anyone looking to call them different at this point are just ignoring facts.

EDIT: "Chronologically this title is not too far from the previous title, thus her age stays the same as before."

So there.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 10:51:13 AM by nintendonut888 »
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Quintafeira12

Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 10:51:35 AM »
Not to mention ZUN states somewhere in the EoSD profiles (I think Reimu's) that despite the long break between MS and EoSD, not much time has passed in the games. Anyone looking to call them different at this point are just ignoring facts.

Less than an year. I know.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2009, 11:47:05 AM »
Alice recognises Reimu in PCB, thanks.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2009, 12:33:52 PM »
It's clear that PC-98 contradicts the new canon in many ways. It's safe to say it's a reboot of the setting, but I disagree with it being retconned. After all, Alice and Yuka make references to their encounteres in PCB and PoFV respectively.
This is a bit of nitpicking, but just what is the difference between retcon and reboot of a series?
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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2009, 12:41:43 PM »
I think Zun WANTS to forget PC-98. Mima, Shinki, tongue-ghosts, flying turtles....
rofl bye

AntKiller

Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 12:49:39 PM »
I think Zun WANTS to forget PC-98. Mima, Shinki, tongue-ghosts, flying turtles....

and why? I'll tell you why, I can't eat shrimps anymore  :V


Gpop

Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2009, 12:56:41 PM »
It's not like he's completely forgotten about the PC-98 games:
Quote from: Notes on ZUN?s Genyou Denshou Lecture
Q: What?s happened to the older characters? Like Alice, Yuka-san, and Mima-sama ?
ZUN: Well, it would be a huge pain to try to bring in older characters all the time. They?d show up, and everyone would be, ?Where have you been all this time!?? It?d be weird to fit them into the story. And, I?d rather make new characters. Of course, I won?t say they?ll never show up again ? Hm, Genjii? Well, Reimu can fly, so she doesn?t need him anymore. *g* He?s kind of a Master Roshi character. But he?s a turtle, and turtles are long-lived. He?s probably peacefully living out his days in a pond behind the shrine.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2009, 01:01:18 PM »
What I said: He WANTS to forget about that.
rofl bye

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2009, 01:40:05 PM »
i haf no qualms with pc98.. but most of the char doesn't stick to me as much as Mima does, unfortunately...

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2009, 02:02:05 PM »
It's not like he's completely forgotten about the PC-98 games:
Quote from: Notes on ZUN's Genyou Denshou Lecture
Q: What's happened to the older characters? Like Alice, Yuka-san, and Mima-sama …
ZUN: Well, it would be a huge pain to try to bring in older characters all the time. They'd show up, and everyone would be, "Where have you been all this time!?"

To be honest, I wouldn't even care about where they've been, so long as they show up again I'm totally fine with him bringing them back. If everyone else felt this way we might've seen a a bit more PC-98 influence now.

Frankly, there's not much in the PC-98 history that contridicts what's 'canon', and even then you don't have to think really hard to figure them out on your own. Yuka hasn't appeared in any games beyond PoFV for her history and involvment in LLS to really contridict 'canon'. The other PC-98 characters could easily be said to be 'going on their with their lives without getting involved in other incidents'.

All that really needs to be put to rest is Alice and Mima, and, like I said, I don't care what he comes up with to explain it, so long as I know that what I love most about Touhou (or rather the only thing I love about Touhou) isn't just some retcon for Windows to run over, then I'm perfectly fine with what ZUN comes up with.
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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2009, 03:50:51 PM »
I think your complaint is more about a lack of Mima. A few PC-98 characters have come back, so maybe there will be more. Think of them not as dead but just ... away for the moment.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2009, 03:58:51 PM »
Mima had her time: Being boss + playable character in PC-98 games. Leave them alone, let them enjoy their peace aside getting blasted with danmaku.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2009, 04:24:32 PM »
Everyone else had their time: Being boss and/or playable character in Windows games. Leave them alone, let them enjoy their peace aside getting blasted with danmaku.
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shinyjam

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2009, 04:33:49 PM »
Except bringing Mima back would mean Zun will have to explain things the most compare to other char.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2009, 04:37:26 PM »
Except bringing Mima back would mean Zun will have to explain things the most compare to other char.

Somehow, I think Mima's return would go something like this...

Mima: *shows up at the Hakurei Shrine* 'Sup, homies?  Mima's baaaaaack~
Marisa: Mima-sama, you're back!
Reimu: Oh god, not you again...
Marisa: I haven't seen you for so long!  Where've you been, Mima-sama?
Mima: Oh, here and there...

...And that's all there'll be to it.  Because, come on, how much explanation did ZUN give to Alice and Yuka reappearing?
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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2009, 04:42:09 PM »
ZUN should suddenly take out Marisa and Reimu as playable character for Touhou 13, 14 and 15 (if that ever occurs) just to piss people off. I wonder what would happen.

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2009, 04:55:35 PM »
Except bringing Mima back would mean Zun will have to explain things the most compare to other char.
Then avoid bringing her back. Although, what Theorist pointed out makes alot of sense concearning returning characters. Alice just popped up out of nowhere, ditto with Yuka.  Did anyone question anything of where they've been or what they've done all that time?

No. Not at all.

However, in Alice's case, her reappearance just raised alot of stink about why Makai or Shinki wasn't mentioned in her dialouge or profile, but given what happened in MS one can already make a valid assumption as to what she's been up to, so it doesn't really matter that much.

ZUN should suddenly take out Marisa and Reimu as playable character for Touhou 13, 14 and 15 (if that ever occurs) just to piss people off. I wonder what would happen.
Depends on what character(s) replaces them.

God help you if it's Mima.

You know, that's actually not a bad idea, hell, I'd be happy to see Cirno as the next MC for a change as opposed to the same ol' miko and the same ol' witch.
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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2009, 04:57:55 PM »
TH13 should have teams again, and Marisa and Alice is replaced with Mima and Shinki for no real reason.

Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2009, 04:58:24 PM »
Mima had her time: Being boss + playable character in PC-98 games. Leave them alone, let them enjoy their peace aside getting blasted with danmaku.

I really liked Mima though. Her personality was great and her design made her look like a mad art teacher. The PC98 were light on any dialogue that wasn't between Reimu and Genji. But from what Mima did say, I liked her confidence and arrogance. She was like a mischievous Tendou Souji. I am the God of the human world. It takes some balls to seriously say that and not be completely insane.

ZUN could make a whole game about what happened to Mima. And it would be awesome.

Quote
ZUN should suddenly take out Marisa and Reimu as playable character for Touhou 13, 14 and 15 (if that ever occurs) just to piss people off. I wonder what would happen.

No, leave Marisa in, make Reimu and unlockable character and have some new annoying girl who steals other people's abilities as the main.

"So where's Reimu been lately? I haven't seen her around ..."
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 05:00:07 PM by Rosie Rune »

shinyjam

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2009, 05:29:21 PM »
12 games and we already have 50+ cast...Zun should start revisiting more older cast...

Vile Lasagna

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2009, 05:30:30 PM »
Satori's not that annoying. Just a little bit
rofl bye

Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2009, 05:32:07 PM »
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG SYNDROME

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2009, 05:36:46 PM »
12 games and we already have 50+ cast...Zun should start revisiting more older cast...
Oh god this x10 (no 100, because it really needs to be sought after)

In fact, I don't think we would have this problem if we didn't have a new character for EVERY TIME a new game was released. Change is good an all, but it's getting rather exasperating. Also...

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Vile Lasagna

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Re: Has ZUN forgotten about the PC98 games?
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2009, 05:39:11 PM »
You mean a complete new set of characters randomly more or as powerful as the last batch for no reason and poorly integrated in a long unsustainable scenario? Then yeah, what he said.
rofl bye