Magical Madness Mafia Day 5!

[capt. h]

You're kidding me Zak.

Creating double wagons in Lylo is the last thing you want to do.

I mean, I didn't care about the Chaore votes because I thought both players on it were scum, but I don't like being placed at L-2 by two players I think are townies.

[capt. h]

You won't be able to vote move in 6 ****ing hours because the game will be over in 6 hours.

[capt. h]

Anyway, the reason I was so interested in Affinity's claim and the reason I asked for her and LLD's role names (which are suspiciously different from one another) is because I'm not a vanilla townie. My role name is Townie Cardcaptor (which is half the reason I dropped all those card references, the other being that I'm a character from card captor Sakura. I wasn't allowed to claim anything other than vanilla townie in the role PM. Once per night, including Night 0 and after I die, I must select one of ten cards. I suspect that they're the reason for the new rules each day.

I can only claim now because I asked PX what the penalty for claiming was. I thought it would be a mod kill, but it turns out the only difference is that the cards are selected completely at random. Which is fine, since I can't predict the card effects anyway.

[capt. h]

The name of the ability is called "Dreams of Reality". It's an active ability. The card names are The Mirror, The Thunder, The Erase, The Dark, The Jump The Shield, The Watery, The Illusion, The Wood, and The Windy. I must select one of these cards each night. Night 0 was the Watery, selected by JOB. Night 1, the Mirror. Night 2, the Jump. Night 3, the Illusion. Since the cards seem completely unrelated to their effects anyway, if the only punishment is that Keine selects them instead of me then all that means is that I'm rolling a dice instead of picking a card.

[capt. h]

Incidentally, I'm very surprised and disappointed that no one noticed that LLD is a Townie Witch, while Affinity is a Vanilla townie. Especially that neither Affinity nor LLD seemed to recognize the fact. I would have brought it up myself, but then I would have to know which one's role was actually vanilla townie. And frankly, I have no idea. Although I would not have been able to claim Townie Witch, even if the role was the same as Vanilla Townie.

[capt. h]

And finally, if you're wondering why I waited until now to fullclaim, it's because I didn't see how admitting to having lied during the popcorning could help town unless I was sure I was going to be lynched. And making multiple wagons is horrible in Lylo, because the only reason Chaore hasn't been lynched yet is because 1) One of the players on his wagon is scum or 2) He's scum. Why the hell would you take that risk twice is beyond me; the only way I won't be lynched in the next hour is if you or LLD is scum.

[PX]

Music

The Twenty Ninth Red Votecount!
Chaore (2) - Affinity, Dormio
Capt. h (2) - Lady Lambdadelta, Zakeri

Not voting: Everyone else

Day 3 ends in 5.25 hours.

[capt. h]

In-game Post-game rants

Affinity, Zakary - Do you two understand that THIS IS MYLO?

If a player is within two votes of a lynch with 2 scum and they aren't dead in 12 hours or less, then it means either they or a player on their wagon is scum. OTHERWISE SCUM WOULD HAVE ENDED IT ALREADY.

Affinity, we can't just lynch Chaore for information and use his flip to determine the alignment of others. He's either scum or he's dead. DON'T TREAT MYLO LIKE AN INFORMATION LYNCH. You're either right or you lose.

And sheesh, I know there's three other townies out there. I also know that every player here other than Affinity has been prodded. Stop being apathetic about the fact that this is the last day of the game. The only reason it isn't a scum tell is because everyone is HORRIBLE.

LLD, your play is the most anti-town play possible for someone I consider townie. I think you're town, but if you're really town and you haven't even noticed the fact that your vanilla townie claim doesn't match Affinity's vanilla townie claim then I have to ask what the hell you've been doing these past few game days. And the same goes for Affinity about LLD. I might even like your case on me if you weren't utterly vague about it, or if it were possible to change your reads. But I don't get the impression you actually learn and improve between games, because you're still pushing cases on cryptic logic without even entertaining alternatives, confirmation biasing town to death.

[capt. h]

Also, TALKING ABOUT SCUM ISN'T A SCUM TELL.

Avoiding discussion about scum, and avoiding discussion about whether or not they are scummy (whether it be because of role speculation in the case of Chaore, because they'de rather talk about Shadoweh in the case of Dormio, or avoiding talking about scum directly in the case of Zakary), is. I especially dislike that Zak, of all the players, is criticizing me for only talking about Dan when his one post on day 2 didn't have any opinion about the now-flipped scum at all.

[capt. h]

Dormio (this only applies partially if you're scum) - What is with you and tunnel vision? Seriously, you picked exactly one player to talk about on Day 3 total, and that was it. You didn't even have opinions on half the game, and your town read on Hero was based on the assumption that Chaore was scum. GDI talk about more than one player per day. Especially in this game, where there is so much scum intent from EVERYONE that I think the reasons to believe a player town are fewer than the reasons to believe a player scum. And your tunneling was especially bad on day 2, where you linked Bard's case on Dan and then tunneled on only Shadoweh. PURSUING ONE TARGET TO THE DEATH DOES NOT HELP TOWN. Not unless you've already considered all the alternatives.

Hero: Townies should NEVER give up. Ever. They also shouldn't rely completely on their roles, and they should make cases. And townies should always have a reason for why they act.

You don't switch votes because you suddenly want Shadoweh dead more, you switch votes because you want to take the more confirmed route over the less confirmed route. An explanation for your actions should never be "sheer laziness and role reliance". And cases are good, they're better than the alternative.

[capt. h]

Zak - You tried to get a townie killed over a scum you ignored on day 2, on day 3 I consider your play rather apathetic towards your primary lynch especially when Bardiche was asking for help deciding, and on day 4 you started an alternate wagon when either at least one of the players on Chaore's wagon is scum, Chaore is scum, or town has already lost.

If you're town, START THINKING. STOP FORGETTING THIS IS THE LAST DAY. Half the reason I didn't want to start a wagon on Dormio is that I think Affinity is more likely at the moment (although Dormio's CONTENTLESS day 4 is giving me second thoughts) and every single additional wagon that gets made today is a huge liability to town. I definitely did not increase the liability by starting a Dormio wagon until I saw if I could get LLD to budge on Affinity.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

@capth: I had town reads in Bardiche and Hero, and wasn't sure about YJ(LLD)/Rikter/you/Zakeri.
I thought that you and Zakeri were more likely to be scum than not, which leaves me to find the scum between YJ(LLD) and Rikter. And again, how was I meant to do that without flipping a coin?
I'd prefer to talk about Chaore because he is my solid scum read. Like you said, this is LYLO. I'd prefer to push the case that I have the most confidence in, because I want to win.

As for Day 2, I've said it before but I was working under the assumption that Dan was going to be lynched. It was a multi-lynch day, remember?
Therefore, I was going to look for the other scum.

[capt. h]

In the future, it looks much better if you say you have town reads on Zak and myself than if you say that you don't know.

Sorry about the rant.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I was unsure, just leaning more town than not.
Because, seriously, how am I meant to read YJ/Rikter?

[capt. h]

YJ was the village idiot.

Rikter was the player hiding behind the village idiot.

I actually can't tell which one's scummier myself. Rikter was a bit more subtle. [urlhttp://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10806.msg715891.html#msg715891]Here he accuses Polaris of being scummy for not finding NeoSerela suspicious.[/url] He later allows Dan to end Day 2 48 hours early, and then on day 3 he claims I told him to do it, when I only told him to vote on day 1 when there almost was a no lynch (using me as an excuse when he didn't have one). I wanted to follow him up on it, but he lurked out.

But truthfully, my town read on the playerslot comes from LLD and the case she made on Action Dan, the importance she places in having her lynch happening as opposed to not caring whether we listen to her or not, and the consistenly helpful guidance she gives town, such as suggesting popcorning, which might not have happened otherwise considering our track record. Part of the reason I looked at Rikter so hard is because he was being ignored though, whereas YJ's anti-town play is immediately obvious.

[capt. h]

EBWOP:
Here he accuses Polaris of being scummy for not finding NeoSerela suspicious.

[Chaore]

@Affinity: Fair enough.

I can pretty much make clear everything that is wrong by motioning up to that post on Rikter. Yes, he addresses and says Rikter is suspicious, There is one thing that makes that move incredibly odd though.

He places you above Dormio. I'd have been utterly fine if it was just placing you at second, that makes sense with the reasons he gives (My claim, You vs. LLD), but he literally wanted to lynch you above Dormio. It kind of makes sense if you take it as a gradual swift from 'Okay just trying to put pressure, still would vote Dormio to actually lynch' but it doesn't actually work that way. All it takes is one waffle onto him and he goes 'Aww yeah lets lynch us some affinity'. It seems incredibly abrupt and honestly he's pretty much actually been pushing Lynching Affinity over Lynching Dormio the entire day. It doesn't help he's not really even said anything about Dormio, preferring to go after you today and ignore him. I'm not exactly sure why this is, so while the captain is here I'll extend if he has an explanation for this.

I find it worse than what Dormio is doing mostly because it simple feels less like something that would actually happen with a town!CaptH. Meanwhile, If you were to ask me if Dormio would be completely and utterly anti-town as town I would be honest to admit that he would in a loving heartbeat. This just seems to be something that clashes with an assumption that 'CaptH is town' more.

@Capt.H: What.

I'm going to be honest in that your claim seems like a really convenient way to explain how you're the dreaming god but didn't mention it earlier. Your arbitrary restraint on being able to roleclaim makes little sense. We can not influence the results of your role in anyway, you claiming dreaming god is not an auto-win button, and if it was giving it such a light restraint is POINTLESS.

I'm not sure what to say about the results either. Day 1 and Today's frankly seem planned. Today's perfectly meshes with a lylo situation and Day 1's would've been game changing any day but. It feels a bit to coincidental you drew them when you did, but It's arguing on a 1/10 and 1/7 or 6 chances and possibilities of happening.

You're also nabbing apart at rolenames and it strikes me as an incredibly pointless thing to do. Affinity could just feel like claiming what their role actually is, rather than the role name. Especially not getting what you're actually asking.

I'm pretty sure I still want you lynched, but I'll wait on your answer.

[Affinity]

@capt.h:

Me not changing my reads?  I've been changing them the entire time, throwing everything up and trying to reassemble them again, and have even been slightly convinced by your answers to the point of not really wanting to vote you today, actually!  I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about me post-game however.

And I never said I was treating today's lynch as an informational lynch.  I was saying we treat each lynch day by day.  If we lose, too bad.  If we win, we analyze things in the light of the new flip.

Day ends in a no lynch if there's no majority however, from what I see.  I'm not sure what to say about your claim but hm, for now I believe you. 

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio

In this case, I'm wondering if people are willing to go for a Dormio lynch instead.  Since Dormio is on everyone's scumlist and people have been suspiciously finding capt.h or me more scummy all of a sudden, which is a favorable position to take for Dormio's scum partner, (especially Zakeri, whose post is all kinds of bad since he doesn't compare between the two), I think Dormio would be the more agreeable lynch.

[capt. h]

@Affinity: Fair enough.

I can pretty much make clear everything that is wrong by motioning up to that post on Rikter. Yes, he addresses and says Rikter is suspicious, There is one thing that makes that move incredibly odd though.

He places you above Dormio. I'd have been utterly fine if it was just placing you at second, that makes sense with the reasons he gives (My claim, You vs. LLD), but he literally wanted to lynch you above Dormio. It kind of makes sense if you take it as a gradual swift from 'Okay just trying to put pressure, still would vote Dormio to actually lynch' but it doesn't actually work that way. All it takes is one waffle onto him and he goes 'Aww yeah lets lynch us some affinity'. It seems incredibly abrupt and honestly he's pretty much actually been pushing Lynching Affinity over Lynching Dormio the entire day. It doesn't help he's not really even said anything about Dormio, preferring to go after you today and ignore him. I'm not exactly sure why this is, so while the captain is here I'll extend if he has an explanation for this.

I find it worse than what Dormio is doing mostly because it simple feels less like something that would actually happen with a town!CaptH. Meanwhile, If you were to ask me if Dormio would be completely and utterly anti-town as town I would be honest to admit that he would in a loving heartbeat. This just seems to be something that clashes with an assumption that 'CaptH is town' more.

@Capt.H: What.

I'm going to be honest in that your claim seems like a really convenient way to explain how you're the dreaming god but didn't mention it earlier. Your arbitrary restraint on being able to roleclaim makes little sense. We can not influence the results of your role in anyway, you claiming dreaming god is not an auto-win button, and if it was giving it such a light restraint is POINTLESS.

I'm not sure what to say about the results either. Day 1 and Today's frankly seem planned. Today's perfectly meshes with a lylo situation and Day 1's would've been game changing any day but. It feels a bit to coincidental you drew them when you did, but It's arguing on a 1/10 and 1/7 or 6 chances and possibilities of happening.

You're also nabbing apart at rolenames and it strikes me as an incredibly pointless thing to do. Affinity could just feel like claiming what their role actually is, rather than the role name. Especially not getting what you're actually asking.

I'm pretty sure I still want you lynched, but I'll wait on your answer.

First off, I asked Affinity to clarify to make sure.

I stand by my roleclaim.  Fairy Tickle (Majokko Tickle), Vanilla Townie.

Second, I think the cards are completely random, and that it was just bad luck that The Watery fell on N0 and coincidence I selected the Illusion on night 3.

Third, I think the restriction is based on Sakuya from Night of the Vampire mafia. PX actually said I wouldn't be able to use my role anymore, but then I asked if that meant I stopped drawing cards and he said no, just that I don't get to pick which ones I use. I actually want to oppose ever using this role restriction again, because it's a huge liability for town in Lylo, especially when it seems likely that there is no "vanilla townie".

The role is really weird. It said I have no idea what the cards do, I have to draw one every single night inclusing N0, and I have to draw every night even after I die. I'm not actually sure why he cares if I claim or not. I'm guessing though, that it's PX's way of implementing new rules every day as opposed to arbitrarily choosing the rules each day. Course, this is all just speculation. All I know is that I must capture 1 card every day no matter what, even after I die.

Still, it explains why we even had a N0.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

##Unvote
##Vote Chaore

Seriously. :/

[Chaore]

Third, I think the restriction is based on Sakuya from Night of the Vampire mafia. PX actually said I wouldn't be able to use my role anymore, but then I asked if that meant I stopped drawing cards and he said no, just that I don't get to pick which ones I use. I actually want to oppose ever using this role restriction again, because it's a huge liability for town in Lylo, especially when it seems likely that there is no "vanilla townie".

I thought you asked what the penalty was, not what he meant by not being able to use your role. If you thought you were able to shut this role down for lylo, you should've claimed the instant the day started. What?

[PX]

Music

The Thirtieth Cleaver Votecount!
Chaore (1) - Affinity, Dormio
Capt. h (2) - Lady Lambdadelta, Zakeri
Dormio (1) - Affinity

Not voting: Capt. h, Chaore

Day 3 ends in 2.25 hours.

[capt. h]

I'm not sure what you mean.

I asked PX what the penalty for claiming was about midway through today, he told me that I wouldn't be able to use the role anymore, I asked him if that meant I stopped capturing cards, and he said no, but the cards would be selected at random.

[Chaore]

...Okay, it just seemed like a weird disjunction to go 'by the way I also had to ask PX what not using my role anymore meant'. It seemed like it was unnecessary.

[Affinity]

From what I see, since scum quicklynches aren't happening on the capt.h and Chaore wagons, everything can be split into two boxes. 

Due to the capt.h wagon, only one of Chaore, Dormio and Affinity can be scum. 

Similarly, due to the Chaore wagon, only one of capt.h, Zakeri, and LLD can be scum.  If not the game is already lost. 

Thus I would like everyone to revaluate their scumpicks, if not today, than tomorrow, especially regarding people in their own box; for example, capt.h can no longer take the position that me and Dormio are the scum.

[Affinity]

Thus, I've been thinking, no lynch might be a fine idea too, since one of the boxes will definitely only have two players left tomorrow, and we can narrow down on these two people tomorrow into a 50-50. 

[Chaore]

@Affinity: We're not no lynching. Give me a moment to think over if I'm completely sure LLD and Zakeri are town, I still hold my town reads and if what you've said is true then Capt.H should be scum by those reads and I have no reason not to put my vote on him, as a 3-1-1 is still a majority to lynch Capt. H, I think.

@MOD: A player does not need to be hammered, just hold the majority, correct?

[Chaore]

To clarify, I don't think No lynching is entirely worth it because I'd rather not have 1 person to screw the whole pooch.

[Affinity]

Rule 9 states that there must be a majority I think.

[Chaore]

Of votes, I don't necessarily THINK that means a hammer, though I could be wrong.