Magical Madness Mafia Day 5!

[Affinity]

If Dan could mod-confirm himself, then yes, he's town.  If Dan could not, then he was scum.  If anything else was in between concerning role speculation, one would still have to refer to the actions he had done and scumhunt, which is what you should have done instead of languishing in paralysis.  You weren't going to find anything out by your own power otherwise as shown by your 'five aces in the deck post'.  Furthermore, if you truly believed that he was not the right lynch at that time, without bothering to find the bad points about him, then why didn't you consider other people and their actions?  I don't buy your explanation that Dan was the main focus of the day since discussion regarding Shadoweh, Dormio and huhwhat were being tossed around too, and you could have easily participated in any of them with what you had claimed to find D1.

[PX]

Find your own quote.

Here's your music

The Twenty Sixth Lazy Votecount!
No Lynch (1) - Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting: Everyone else

Chaore has been prodded.

Day 3 ends in 42.75 hours.

[capt. h]

If Dan could mod-confirm himself, then yes, he's town.  If Dan could not, then he was scum.  If anything else was in between concerning role speculation, one would still have to refer to the actions he had done and scumhunt, which is what you should have done instead of languishing in paralysis.  You weren't going to find anything out by your own power otherwise as shown by your 'five aces in the deck post'.  Furthermore, if you truly believed that he was not the right lynch at that time, without bothering to find the bad points about him, then why didn't you consider other people and their actions?  I don't buy your explanation that Dan was the main focus of the day since discussion regarding Shadoweh, Dormio and huhwhat were being tossed around too, and you could have easily participated in any of them with what you had claimed to find D1.

Affinity, I did look into his actions and scumhunt. But I could not know whether he was the correct lynch until he either showed or failed to show what he promised - a mod confirmation that he was town. And I will not act rashly when I do not need to. On Polaris' merits, he was scum. If he had shown mod confirmation of towniness, he was town. There was no in between at the time of my first post, because if he was anything less than a perfect townie (which he wasn't, for reasons I mentioned the previous day), Polaris would have been enough to lynch him, while if the mod confirmed him, I would have to assume town (I will not assume lying mod, because that would make the game pointless).

[Chaore]

@capt.H: His Dayvig was still something on the table, and I wasn't sure if he'd be shot for that if he was town. I at first thought they probably would just because it's confirmable, but I eventually decided against it because he well... looked like scum. I figured even if he was town they wouldn't actually shoot him in the face because his face was too scummy and they'd get their bullets dirty. Bard was the obvious protect choice otherwise.

@Affinity: Yes, I didn't really address the actual case on Dan but I didn't disagree with any of it, really. I was honestly not completely sure because everything didn't really make all that much sense to me at that point, but I did agree there was good reason to think Dan was scum. I just...didn't take Bard's suggestion to stop thinking about the night to heart and started thinking about the night.

I am having absorbent amounts of trouble expressing myself tonight. I with this was something that wasn't so unfortunately regular.

I have a town read on Zakeri and LLD. LLD because her early ActionDan case literally makes no fucking sense with her as scum, and Zakeri because he's the only person who hasn't said a thing that has made me make an illegal pitching motion. I simply can't look at Zakeri and seriously say 'that guy could be scum'.

Of the final three, I think I'd like to see Capt.H lynched the most at the moment. I can't properly quantify what the fuck, but I think it's mostly his sudden switch to Affinity as top choice at the beginning of the day coming from 'Dormio is scum and I would like him lynched more'. This is a switch from having a case to someone deduced via 'one of the VTs must be lying'. This change is actually pretty jarring, and I'd like to ask Capt. H why he decided to swap from the person he had a case on to the person who he has no case on and admits has not enough information to judge.

I'd also prefer Dormio over Affinity. I was kind of nursing the idea that Dormio was being his normal brain-dead mole self for a while, but I don't think I could honestly say that town would enter lylo and make no effort to reconsider anything and just go 'EVERYTHING I SAID STANDS'. His second choice for scum (LLD) is basically also picked out because they said something that isn't immediately townie they must be scum. He's putting no effort into even trying to scumhunt today. During Lylo. Please inform me how this is pro-town and I am scum for daring to attack the town-bulletproof for this, Dormio.

Affinity gives me a few odd feelings, but I think his sudden genuflection to disliking Capt.H is honestly genuine, and I'd probably not want to see him lynched over the other two.

If you excuse me, I just spent 7 hours typing this up, it is now 5 in the morning, and I am fucking tired.

@Votecount: That should be Chaore Prodded PX to Prod Chaore.

[Affinity]

Urgh, Chaore, the thing about your post is that it shows that you had almost no opinions at all coming into D4 (except for the LLD town read and Zakeri) town, since most of your (admittedly convincing) views just came from today's actions.  There isn't really much of a connection between your views from D2 to D4 too, so there's this fluidity in your character which I'm uneasy with, since it allows you to chase whatever happens to be the most convenient lynch at any time if you are scum.

LLD, do you have that motivation to make the capt.h case now?  Everything seems too lethargic here.

[capt. h]

Affinity, I would like you to full claim, with all the flavor.

[capt. h]

Affinity, stop waffling on Chaore. You go from #FoSing Chaore to waffling on him and Dormio to admitting cold feet on him and FoSing me, and then you point out that you think what he did was just scummy. It looks like to me you want to point accusations at Chaore without actually voting for him, or distancing.

Furthermore, I really don't like this:

Compared to his active questioning D1, the change is much too large to be ignored.  Even his great D3, where he gives out a lot of questions and opinions, serve to make his D2 look worse, especially when he could have given them on D2 (such as the thing on Chaore).  My opinion on him has tanked, and I need answers to these questions.

I have answered your questions. However, I don't like this statement. You're saying I look bad for not actively questioning players day 2 because I actively questioned players days 1 and 3.  You're using the fact that I did actively question players to make me appear scummier than if I hadn't actively questioned players on any day. It's a trap to make playing generally pro-town seem scummier than playing consistantly anti-town.

@Chaore - I wanted to ratchet up pressure on Rikter's player slot today and finally make a decision, but I felt that the popcorning helped. Your claim explained Night 1 and would be risky for scum because it came before Zak, Dormio's claim is confirmed (even if he is scum), and Zak's claim is confirmable. I think LLD is town. Affinity made a fairly safe claim (probably the safest claim for scum among the popcorners) - He claimed Vanilla Townie when there were already two claimed VT's. We know someone is lying about their role (considering the mod confirm of Dan hasn't been explained), and Affinity's claim is the most likely one to have been fabricated. His play during the rest of the day has affirmed my suspicions.

[WHMZakeri]

@Capt.H: I see. I didn't get that connection because I didn't register Dan as having a wagon on day one (It only had two votes, both by people who couldn't formulate a case to save their lives). The question would then become "Why Dan, but not Shadoweh?" Except for the part where you've been after Shadoweh since you came in. That makes this much more ambiguous than I'm comfortable holding against you, thought the fact still remains that you supported NeoSerela and Polaris over Dan and Dormio.

I agree that Affinity's attack on Capt.H's day 2 is a bit unfair. Pretty much everyone had a bad day 2 compared to the rest of the game, because Day 2 was filled to the brim with role shenanigans and confirmation bias.

Not much, but I have to get something out.

[Affinity]

Blurb on me waffling on Chaore

Fair, and I fully accept this judgment, but it's just that Chaore's impression has been shifting and changing for me.  I misinterpreted his D2 a bit as going for Dan without considering the roleless case on him, but it seems that it wouldn't have made a difference even if he did include it, since Bard said all that was to be said.  His case on Shadoweh was pretty fair too, so it was not as if he was being idle, unlike you, which I thought he was.  However, I really hate his post-D3, as you can see, and taken individually things like his Hero999 chasing post and the last post he made were really disconnected from any accountability, which raises alarm for me.  This is a conflict I have yet to resolve.

You're saying I look bad for not actively questioning players day 2 because I actively questioned players days 1 and 3.  You're using the fact that I did actively question players to make me appear scummier than if I hadn't actively questioned players on any day. It's a trap to make playing generally pro-town seem scummier than playing consistantly anti-town.

No, what you did wasn't pro-town on D2, and no matter what you did on the other days, what you did was still scummy, withholding your vote on Dan, not even following up your cases on others when others did, and opportunistically jumping on the Dan wagon when everything was up and moving with something that wasn't scumhunting but the mere copying of other people's cases, namely Bard.  Of course, you aren't the only one that did that, and that alone isn't bad since there are only so many reasons, but the thing is that you contributed nothing else that day.  Name me someone else on that day who wasn't RIKTER and YJ and did not consider a case other than that of ActionDan; this renders your defense that 'Dan was the only focus of the day' invalid since it was only you who insisted on only going at him.

In the end, all you did on D2 was speculate on Dan's actions in your first post, vote Dan in the second with already accepted reasoning, and chase lurkers.  It has the impression of a wait-and-see, which no one else in the day could claim as they all had subsidiary cases they wanted to pursue.

I stand by my roleclaim.  Fairy Tickle (Majokko Tickle), Vanilla Townie.

[capt. h]

I did not like Chaore's Shadoweh case day 2, and I'm surprised you're defending it. It's a mess up of accusing her over her setup speculation, which is hypocritical considering Chaore's day 2 was nothing but a mess of setup speculation. I would like to know what it is that you liked about his day 2.

The primary issue I have with your request (that I find players other than your playerslot and LLD's playerslot that only talked about Dan) is that there isn't a living player that actually judged Dan on his scumminess and discussed their non-speculation reasons. Dormio linked Bard's case before voting Shadoweh, Chaore based his decision (and all his decisions that day) almost entirely on setup and other player's speculation about it, and Zak talked around the issue only bringing up issues with Huh What and Shadoweh.

@Zak - All I can say about Shadoweh is that when I took a second look at my case on her here, I decided to drop it. I did have a bad feeling about her, but that was it; the fact is she's used fake QT's to avoid suspicion as town in Jojo's, and she almost always fires attacks at everyone day 1. I'd be stretching if I continued to use that case, so I dropped it.

[Affinity]

@capt.h: Urgh, as I said, I never really blamed you specifically for copying the reasons of Bard like everyone else did (after he did post), but again, that you keep insisting that Dan is so important that you couldn't talk about anything else, which is untrue.  In summary, you did nothing Day 2, since your Dan vote was the same as everyone else, and didn't have any other opinions or stances to offer, which doesn't follow well from your Day One.  Gosh, I've been repeating this so many times regarding how not being consistent with your reads and suspicions from day to day is scummy because it allows you to take any voting stance you want without the pain of continuity, which gives scum numerous wait-and-see opportunities to best place their vote; this is a fault of Chaore's too.

As for Chaore's vote, I disagree with what you view as hypocrisy.  Shadoweh's role speculation was using NK speculation to arbitarily clear a few people as townies and directly implicate another set without any further argument.  It doesn't sound strange to implicate this behavior as scummy. 

===

Well, at least this back-and-forth does make me feel somewhat better about you, capt.h, since everyone else with the exception of Zakeri seems completely apathetic about everything right now.  For me, it's more of a choice between determining which is worse?  A bad D2, or a bad post-D3?  Chaore, Dormio, LLD are all in the latter while capt.h and Dormio are somehow in the former.  Zakeri is also somehow a big question mark.  I don't believe that no lynch is the best way to go today for the reason capt.h stated, so I guess I will say that I want Dormio lynched the most right now for that Dan dance and the apathy coming into today.

[PX]

Final Boss Music

The Twenty Seventh WalpurgisNacht Votecount!
No Lynch (1) - Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting: Everyone else

Dormio has been prodded.

Day 3 ends in 23.67 hours.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Hate. Uni. Wireless.

I see nothing that contests my thoughts on Chaore's D3, which is why I say that I believe that that case still stands.
I thought he was scum yesterday, and I still think that he's scum today.
I do find it interesting how capt.h became Chaore's top scumpick, and the one that Chaore would like to see lynched today, in #633 after having almost not mentioned capt.h all game.
This hate doesn't even take into consideration the capt.h's actions from any other day. Just "that change at the beginning of today actually pretty jarring".

And on the note of LLD, LLD admits that she is being lazy in #629 and that she is using the process of elimination to get her town read on Affinity. In MYLO.
The only things that LLD has done today is to start off the massclaim, and to suggest a no lynch.
She calls me scum, but fails to give us any reasoning at all. And she calls capt.h scum with very little reasoning that she only briefly mentioned in D3 and has not bothered to restate or expand on since.

[Affinity]

Bleh, this is boring.  Let's see now, who wants who lynched.

Chaore: capt.h/Dormio
Affinity: Dormio/capt.h/Chaore
LLD: capt.h/Dormio
Dormio: Chaore/LLD
capt.h: Affinity/Dormio
Zakeri: Dormio/capt.h.

Everything is wrong with everyone, but we can only lynch one person.  Zakeri hasn't even really clarified his position yet with these sporadic rereadings he has been making, and LLD is basically relying on YJ's early vote on D2 as her only townie thing to do.  Chaore has problems with accountability which are as yet unexplained, capt.h has immense problems with his D2 but is fairly good and helpful otherwise.  Dormio is apathetic, has a scummy history and is really just shoehorning his case on Chaore (which I somewhat agree with partially) as his only proof of town.  Without motivation or activity, Mafia is not much more than a game of chance no matter what reasoning you give or how much time you take, so I suppose there's not much we can do now but vote.  Head says Dormio, heart says Chaore.  Here's to a life of eternal sadness and misery.

##Vote: Chaore for the reasons I gave in my first post.  As to why him over Dormio and capt.h, it's all due to the chronic inconsistency of his actions and that kind of living day by day, lynch by lynch; what with suddenly finding capt.h scum without questioning.  At least the others gave some explanation; capt.h's vote against me was partially based on his suspicion of RIKTER which was quite elaborate while Dormio felt like he was actively scumhunting by going after Chaore.  So yeah, let's go.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Lynch time.

##Vote Chaore

[PX]

Music

The Twenty Eigth Mogumogut Votecount!
Chaore (2) - Affinity, Dormio
No Lynch (1) - Lady Lambdadelta

Not voting: Everyone else

Lady Lambdadelta has been prodded.

Day 3 ends in 20.5 hours.

[Lexicat]

GET YOUR VOTE OFF CHAORE RIGHT NOW AFFINITY.
 

[Affinity]

##Unvote

Okay, but why do you think Chaore is so town and what about my views are wrong?  I'm willing to hear what you have to say!

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Actually I think she wants the No Lynch.

[Affinity]

Will be putting back my vote in a few hours of so, though, if nothing occurs.

[Lexicat]

Vote: Capt.h
 
Trust in my gut, please.

[Affinity]

I'd rather not.

##Vote: Chaore

[Chaore]

@Affinity: I am very tired, very annoyed you're deciding to pull the 'EVEN THOUGH MY BRAIN TELLS ME I'M WRONG, I'M GOING WITH MY HEART' again, in a lylo situation, and increasingly confused. Please explain how you want me to magically fix retroactively these problems with 'accountability' (What? Am I supposed to suddenly declare myself accountable for something or...?) and what these magical inconsistent actions so I can properly tell you why you do not go with your heart in the middle of lylo and we can lynch scum. I'm going to guess this is all slang for 'Chaore's last post has LEFT ME IN DESPAIR AND CONSTANT WAFFLING', which I don't really have an answer to because I -really- don't give much of a damn this game, but I want an explanation of what you're trying to say in clear understandable terms. Not magical mafia speak.

Use some post links as well. Your cases in general are annoying to try and divine without them, because it's hard to tell what your reference is.

@LLD: ... I thought you had MORE than gut, from what you've been telling us. Is this literally all you've been running on?

[Affinity]

It's more of an attitude than anything else, rather than any specific post.  Day 3, you generally defended yourself against Dormio and went after Hero with infinite zest without giving us the impression of any alternative.  Day 4, you suddenly discover that capt.h is scum all along at the beginning of the day for pursuing me and that Dormio is anti-town with great lethargy.  It baffles me that nothing you said on D4 is telegraphed from D3, and that you could chase Hero with all the conventionally brilliant scumhunting on D3 while 'not being able to quantify what the fuck is wrong with capt.h except for his switch to me' here and yet still be happy with lynching him.  In MyLo.  Also, capt.h is probably the guy with the richest history around here besides you and you not being able to pull anything out of that to support your case is immensely telling. 

Lastly, and I just noticed from your last post; you need to update your cases.  Capt.h posted this post on RIKTER which justifies his case against me, rendering your case against him useless.  In the end, out of all the players in the game, I know where you stand from day to day the least, and that makes me want to lynch you the most, even though Dormio may have a far worse D1-D2 than you do.

Maybe a question to you can help me judge better.  Why did you place capt.h above Dormio in your scumlist?  What makes you think that 'capt. h arbitarily switching from Dormio to me as his main choice of lynch' is worse than 'Dormio being anti-town and tunnelly on you."  All these questions and more; I do not understand your thought processes and stuff like that.

[Lexicat]

I have more Chaore. Tangible evidence is basically D1/D2 postings by Capt.H in relation to Dan.
 
Chaore is town for the reasons that caught Dan. Pushing a stupid RVS/RNG vote by Chaore as legitimately scummy makes dem scumdars go ~PING~.
 

[capt. h]

I reread Chaore's day 2 under the context of him being a doctor.

If he's scum, he was planning on claiming doctor from the very beginning. Lots of hints on day 2, such as asking why there was no indication of additional blocked NKs and figuring Dormio was killed because Dormio was a safe kill, and scum would guess a doctor. Makes sense for the doc to assume scum assume a doc, moreso than I would expect for scum to assume a doc. Basically, his arguments on day 2 make much more sense from the perspective of a doctor than from a normal townie.

I don't want to lynch him today.

LLD, I want you to look at Affinity, and tell us if you see anything odd. My main concern with you is that now that you have scum reads, I don't think you've considered the possibility that players new to the game might be scum instead. I also think that you should question me about the things you find scummy about my play rather than simply state what you find scummy in general. This doesn't change my read on you.

I don't like Dormio's play today - it felt like he was staying out of the discussion, having no opinion either way about what was going on and posting just enough to tell us who he wants lynched. I would like him to explain why he's choosing between Affinity and LLD for his last scum pick. I'd also like his town reads.

Affinity - we don't have 3 lynches, we have 2, and only if we lynch right today. I think you should narrow down your scum picks and decide which player you think is least likely to be scum.

[Affinity]

As you can see, I want Chaore lynched today.  There is not really much point in prematurely deciding which is the least likely to be scum since the flip of today's lynch (if correct) decides the main suspects of tomorrow depending on the connections (e.g a Chaore scumflip would implicate LLD the most and make Dormio look more town etc.).  If you really want an answer, I'll put Chaore and Dormio at the forefront for now.

I really don't like your idea of Chaore's D2 but that's for another day.

[Affinity]

Around 10-12 hours left, I think.  Will be around around 8 hours later.

[PX]

6 hours remain. Votecount when I'm out of class. Chaore is at L-2

[WHMZakeri]

##Vote: Capt.H

This is mostly going by process of elimination now. Town Affinity, I can see wrestling with Chaore's posts in his head, and trying to figure out if he's actually scum enough to vote despite his doctor claim. Scum Affinity, on the other hand, I would imagine he couldn't even think about posting A current wagon analysis and a jump onto the same wagon Dormio is (not actually) pushing for today that close together with a straight face.

Capt H on the other hand has, as LLD said before, weird interactions regarding dan for the end of day one and all of day two. Also, as Affinity said, the fact that he refused to discuss anything besides ActionDan does read a little bit like he was trying to milk a sudden bus.

Cut: 6 hours, got it. I'll be back at deadline to vote move if it's needed.