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Ask a Librarian 24- Chaore

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theshirn: You are the Human Village on Lunatic.  What do?

Chaore: --- Quote from: Killer Purvis on July 30, 2011, 08:45:45 PM ---All excellent choices, Berserker Caligula made me jaw-drop with glee. But you missed a golden opportunity for Billy the Kid as Archer. --- End quote --- Ooh. Good point. --- Quote from: Killer Purvis on July 30, 2011, 08:45:45 PM ---Also, I meant on the particular heroic spirits we know and love. --- End quote --- Also ooohhh. In that case, also sure, but I'll stick to the 5th holy war's cast on account of never having played Fate/Extra (never will because I lack a psp), and read Fate/Zero. With another important servant to how the 5th plays out. Spoilers below etc. Saber- Saber is one of three 'Knight' Classes, along with Archer and Lancer. They've a reputation for being the strongest servant. While I have a feeling that probably is very very much a false dichotomy caused by the fact that it's probably easier to find an artifact for a strong hero known for using a sword than for a lance etc because a lot of famous people use swords, Saber is a monster and probably proves the dichotomy pretty fast. Saber uses of course, a sword, but a hidden one due to the fact it shows off who she is right fast. This means she is using a weapon you can't accurately judge and watch, making it hard to block her blows. Couple this with the fact she also infuses her blows with Mana to make them hit damn hard, and that she's quick and powerful on her own, and in normal combat it's hard to match her. The only person who bested her in normal combat this war was Beserker, who I'll get to in a bit. She is however, also suffering from having a weak magus who can't properly feed her mana to keep her at full power though, so we don't even get to see her at full. Oh, and as a Knight class she has innate spell defense- In Saber's case you need essentially a wave motion cannon to break through. Her Noble Phantasm, however, is what makes her pretty much indisputably the strongest. It's Excalibur. It can take down castles. If there is a situation she can't get out of normally, she can probably Excalibur the fuck out of it. Again though, not having the mana to use it more than once is a downside. She also has Avalon, if certain things happen, which is basically able to negate any attack. Combine the two and she's pretty much invincible at full. As a character, Saber isn't my favorite servant, and if she wasn't hidden under a huge list of badasses and good characters, she'd be awesome. That said, I direct you to my BMW LP for my proper reactions to her anytime she shows up. She's awesome and I like her. Lancer- Lancer is the second of three Knight classes, and focuses on long range weaponry and being quick motherfuckers. So which quick motherfucker do you get for your war? Cu motherfucking chulainn that's who. Lancer is outright said to probably be the fastest possible Lancer, and he shows by excelling in getting the fuck out of dodge. That's not to say he's weak though. Lancer basically has three main weapons, one being a quick motherfucker and rapid assaulting. This typically does nothing to anyone. Two is the fact he has magic runes he can use. These runes can do a lot of different things, from setting shit on fire and blocking projectile weaponry to just powering him the fuck up. In a normal war this would probably get a lot of use and be heavily used. In this war...well, that's for later. The Third is his Noble Phantasm, Gae Bolg. This is basically an instant death spell, straight down to surviving it through use of Luck. Stab the spear anywhere and it's result is changed to 'Hitting the Heart'. It's possible to survive it, but it's not very likely you can avoid taking a serious wound from it. The only way to dodge this move is to not let it happen. Lancer is awesome. He's probably my favorite servant, if you haven't noticed my avatar. Probably has something to do with being half-irish. The thing is, Lancer gets shafted INCREDIBLY hard. First Route, he dies offscreen, even if it's fighting the good fight and going against one of the most overpowered assholes in the Nasuverse. He did little else the entire route. Second Route, he pretty much gets to play Hero and it's his finest moment, straight down to dying by setting himself on fire, AFTER taking out to jackasses and freeing a kidnapped ally, ALL WHILE HAVING STABBED HIS OWN HEART. Third Route he gets insta-gibbed by a new lame villain. Nasu kind of hates Lancer, I think. That said, The only reason he isn't more known for being universally badass is because he gets so few scenes. Archer- okay so. Archer class, only thing that matters is they can spend time not connected to a master. Archer is extremely different than your typical archer, and really the most spoilery to talk about, so let me just get this out of the way. He's awesome because he summons swords and turns them into arrow bombs and can fight god damn well. Archer is overhyped though. It's mostly because of the big secret involved in him that makes him twice as awesome, and the fact he gets a LOT of screentime, and is related to awesome scenes that don't involve him doing the awesome things. That said, he can have his moments and he's a great character. I just really find him a bit overhyped. Caster- CASTERS ARE MAGICIANS. This war's caster was a bitch who casted super powerful spells and had a knife that could server contracts to make servants obey her. She dies like a chump most of the time. Second route is her swan song. She's really kinda boring as a character seeing as her fanatic devoting to her master while she strings him into doing what she wants is her characterization. She's just kind of a cheater and a bit of a jerk, and the best scene she's involved in is Rin kicking her ass. Assassin- We're going to be ignoring Hassan and focusing on Sasaki because fuck Hassan. Sasaki isn't an atypical assassin as he's better fit to be a swordsman, and he is also the cannon example of a fictional heroic spirit. He's a person who isn't shown to have ever existed at one point in time, and instead is actually suggested to have been a farmer who just happened to stumble upon a super killing technique. He is likely not the actual person named Sasaki Kojiro and never actually fought Masamune or whoever he was rival to. He uses an overly long Katana and swift techniques, and isn't able to outright best Saber but is able to match her when using the high ground. His noble phantasm is a technique which is basically three slashes happening all at once. Sasaki is awesome even if you don't see much of his because the fights with him are some great scenes. He comes with awesome music as well, and even if he doesn't really have characterization and is instead just kinda there to fight, that's characterization in itself. He just wants to fight, and god damn does he fight well. I like him. Hassan sucks and isn't worth mentioning. Beserker- My love for you is like a Truck. A truck labeled 'Hercules' and rushing you with a giant stone axe to kick your fucking ass. Beserkers are a class that basically involves driving a heroic spirit mad and taking reason away to make them stronger. Hercules is already suggested to be an incredibly strong heroic spirit. They made him stronger. ...yeah, he's the guy who wrecked Saber's shit in normal combat. He's fast, massive, and incredibly strong. He is also functionally invincible thanks to his noble phantasm. He still dies in all three routes. He usually dies in pretty awesome scenes so he's forgiven though. Beserker is a bit boring, but he's awesome and there's a good reason I'd like to see a sane Herc. He'd probably be a god damn badass. Rider- Riders normally ride things. They're still Heroic Spirits though, though I dunno if they all fight similarly having not read Fate/Zero to see how that rider fights. FSN Rider however fights quickly and with odd weapons. She's not much in combat, though pretty damn fast, but her power lies in her noble phantasms, Bellerephon which summons a pegasus to kick your shit in, Bloodfort which melts humans and feasts on their power, and Mystic Eyes Cybele which turns people to stone because she's medusa. Rider is pretty much plot important, and even then she doesn't do much in UBW and in fate only gets the honor of being the first target of Excalibur. In Heaven's feel though she kicks in full drive, becoming both important to the plot and overly all more active. As a character though she remains kind of bland, but she gets her good scenes and I'm driven to agree shes a pretty awesome character. Archer from the 4th- Yeah so remember how I said some archers can act on their own. Yeah this guy has been acting on his own and sucking souls for a full 12 or so years, however long it was between the 4th and 5th. He's another not normal archer like archer, only being an archer because he shoots weapons around like a machinegun. This is because his noble phantasm has a million noble phantasms in it. That's literally all there is to his fighting style. ABUSE NOBLE PHANTASM MACHINEGUN 24/7. He's pretty much the second strongest shown servant, next to Spoiler: What a Beserker Arcueid should be. He knows it as such and is kind of an annoying egotistical jackass who you enjoy seeing get his ass kicked. This makes the scenes he's involved in that involve his ass getting kicked awesome. I don't really like him because I guess you're not supposed to, but really he's a sexist overbearing egotistic villain, even if he's earned his ego it is really hard to like him. He is rightly an excellent villain in this regard though, and god damn he can be a magnificent bastard in his own right. I'll admit, I might've preferred him doing things more over the HF's big 'baddy'. --- Quote from: Beach Vacation Colossal on July 31, 2011, 04:27:12 AM ---What is a "rabbit slam"? Can I get that at Denny's? --- End quote --- A Rabbit slam is a maneuver in which a Giant Enemy Rabbit crushes you beneath it in a magnificent slam. I have been informed after several days of research, that a Denny's near you does in fact, have a Giant Enemy Rabbit, and you can in fact, order a Rabbit Slam at your local Denny's. I don't know why you would though. --- Quote from: theshim on July 31, 2011, 08:59:51 PM ---You are the Human Village on Lunatic.  What do? --- End quote --- Attempt to push my way into the location of another faction's and get a wall against my back and try and hold out and build up. In reality, die terribly because I was terrible at that game really.

Hello Purvis: I am afraid you are wrong, because Hassan is actually awesome as fuck, and it is a tragedy that we cannot have Hassan and Kojiro at the same time. Hassan owns because he is his class; he's the reason why his class is a thing in Western culture, and unlike ninja, actually existed instead of being just folklore.  In fact, we can stretch this out a bit. We don't really know if Sabre's historical counterpart existed. We don't know if Cu Chulaintn existed, or any of the many Greeks who show up. We are very sure there was an Old Man of the Mountain, original and descendants, because we know of the deeds of the Order of Assassins. Even if distorted by folklore, we know there was a Hassan, even if that wasn't his actual name. As well: Hassan is the only heroic spirit who isn't full of himself. He knows he's not the baddest cat on the playground, and makes no bones about it. So he plays trickybitched instead, and uses the terrain and things that the opponent doesn't know to his advantage. It can be said he doesn't win his own victories, as he usually relies on trickery, but I'd say he definitely bests his opponents. Hassan also gets credit, I think, for being a throwing knife guy. Too bad most of the heroic spirits are completely immune to that kind of thing. He's also one of the high points in HF, which is necessary given how much of that storyline is devoted to Cooking Mama and a villain who just can't measure up to the other two main ones. But enough of this! How do you reconcile the separate storylines in both major works? Or do you not even try?

Chaore: --- Quote from: Killer Purvis on July 31, 2011, 11:57:54 PM ---How do you reconcile the separate storylines in both major works? Or do you not even try? --- End quote --- Multiple universes. It kind of helps they're outright stated to exist due to the existence of big papa Zeltretch. Each storyline happens, just in a different universe. Hell, technically I imagine every bad end happens as well. Those 50+ ends were Shirou got his ass ganked? Those are the places Rin is probably drawing all those excalibur blasts from in the end of HF. The Nasumultiverse is a pretty crowded place, when you start including stuff like Fate/Extra as well. It's pretty easy to reconcile seperate paths in a setting that literally confirms alternate universes. While there is of course, a favored storyline that'll get continued, all the storylines did actually happen. A good example would be the idea that Spoiler: Archer is actually Fate Route Shirou- or just that character's existence in general, as a timeline has to exist where he made that choice. The more interesting question is if once Saber became a heroic spirit, if she got a thousand different books detailing how Shirou gets himself stupidly killed.

Hello Purvis: That strikes me as largely making everything meaningless. If all the things happened anyways, than none of the choices made would matter. There's no point in choosing if all the possibilities happen anyways, you've lost all power to determine what does or does not happen. You could argue they're discrete universes that don't affect each other, but at the same time, Zeltretch's dagger has done exactly that. And given at least a couple endings involve that dagger ending up at the feet of a thing with practically infinite power and malice, following this theory it all the other realities would be screwed by default. In fact, looking into the past, they'd all already have to be screwed due to past events that would cause bleed over. So, I don't think many worlds ideology can really apply here. Separate stories, perhaps, but separate ones sharing a reality? It wouldn't work in the long run. That said, I generally prefer to think of them as just ways things could have happened. In all but HF, for instance, Gotou didn't deem it the proper time to move. In all but that one path, Kohaku wasn't able to get revenges by that point and let it slide until later, and so on. Real questions: Who got robbed worse? Lancer or Chaos or Satsuki?

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