Author Topic: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run  (Read 3090 times)

Tsuteto

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Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« on: June 18, 2011, 11:29:07 PM »
So, I don't consider myself a pro by any means.  Hell, with this run, I'm actually very impressed, since normally, I end up with a score about 1/5 of that.  I could've continued and finished out, but then I would've lost the ability to save my replay.  Since I was happy for this one, I decided to save the replay, and have y'all critique me for anything else, or any specifics.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=14352

There are three things I'm majorly aware of:

Bomb usage
Streaming
Knowing stage layout (in terms of when enemies pop out and what not)

So, if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears so I can accomplish this with minimal life loss ^^;;

Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2011, 01:56:27 AM »
First tip: use an easier team, Sakuya is an awful character and that team is only really good for scoring (because of Remi's graze range, though solo Youmu is still better there afaik).  Border team is probably the easiest for beginners, though Netherworld team is pretty amazing too if you can handle unfocused Youmu well.  Magic team is kinda meh, solo Marisa would probably be better than them.

Stage 1 - Letting items drop offscreen and letting fairies fly away is something you should try to avoid.  PoC before the items drop, kill everything as quickly as possible if you can manage it.  Scarlet team specifics, you should try to move under enemies (like that big fairy) before you switch to focus.  Sakuya's shot should only be used for popcorn enemies, familiar killing, and for repositioning yourself.  Try to keep both of Remi's shots under the boss at all times (if possible)

Stage 2 - Get more comfortable with the top of the screen, and PoC more.  I have a feeling this statement will hold true for your whole run.  Be aggressive, it pays off!  Just don't be suicidal =p.  For cards like Mystia's where the familiars will just leave the screen, it's often better to just ignore them, since it won't make decrease the bullets that much.  At least for this team anyway, Youmu and Marisa are significantly stronger than their partners, so non-focus is always quite effective for them on bosses - the point is to focus more on the boss in any case.

Stage 3 - Killing Keine's familiars is generally a good idea, so you're doing okay there.  I can't think of much else to say here.  Maybe stay off to the side a bit on Keine's nonspells when she respawns her familiars so you don't get trapped.  Or at least on the first, the second one might be worth being under her for to kill them off a bit quicker before they start to shoot too much.

Stage 4 - I noticed it a bit before now, but here's where it starts to matter more.  Focus-kill anemies with lots of familiars, since when the fairies controlling them die, the familiars will cancel the bullets around them.  They'll also generally die faster, since the familiars won't be acting as meat-shields.  You'll have fewer bullets to deal with, and it'll help your score as a nice side-effect.  For Reimu... Well, you've got that right!  Stay focused for anything involving yin-yang orbs, unless it's just a quick tap to reposition Remi's familiar.  Practice Concentrate a bit more until you can to it fairly consistently.  The trick is to aim the amulets to the extreme side and a bit up the screen when they turn purple.  Unfocus to get over there more quickly.  For the last card, if it helps you at all, you don't really need to move horizontally much.  You can just wait for the red/white to crossover, move up, wait for the ones under to crossover, move down, repeat.  Just align yourself to the point that it'll happen at and don't forget about the white bullets.

Stage 5 - Practice the hell out of this one.  As a stage, it's really easy, but if you don't know all the enemy spawns it'll be quite good at clusterfucking you.  Particularly those little fairies that come in groups.  Basically you just want to kill stuff before it can overwhelm you.  Second Reisen spell, practice that a bit.  Try to figure out where the empty spaces will be the largest when she unfreezes.  Practice the third one too, since I've noticed that you're not very comfortable when there's a lot of bullets closeby.  Remember, concentrate on the openings, not the bullets themselves!  For the last spell, it doesn't need much practice since it's probably easier than Mystia's cards, but I will say get off the bottom.  Since it's a hard spell to explain with words, I'll just use this pic so you can where the space I'm talking about is.

Stage 6 - Eww, 6A's got nasty bullets on the pre-Eirin fairies... Try to kill them before they can shoot more than a few bullets.  Try to start Eirin's midboss from the extreme left (or right) so you don't get walled.  Eirin's second spell, hug the bottom and only move horizontally.  99% of the time, the blue bullets won't spawn in a way that can kill you if you don't move vertically.  Also, use a continue and finish the stage to unlock 6B.  Kaguya is so much nicer.

Hopefully I got everything.  I was going off your replay specifically, so Remi/Sakuya-specific stuff may not apply if you decide to drop the Scarlet team.  To quickly generalize the others, the border team will mostly use Reimu for stages (Yukari for stronger enemies) and Yukari for bosses (Reimu on occasion for familiar-popping/quick movements).  Netherworld focuses on using Youmu for damage and Yuyuko for fairy-popping and tight dodges.  It really helps to be comfortable with no-focus movement on high-speed characters for them.  Magic team focuses on not focusing.  No really, Alice will just bring you down, so don't focus for anything other than maybe a couple familiar-heavy fairies or really tight dodges.

And I know I've said it a couple times already, but I can't stress it enough: expand your comfort zone.  Do some throwaway runs, do some stage/spell practice on higher difficulties, whatever you need to do to help yourself adjust to moving around bullets quickly, accurately, and reflexively (maybe that falls under quickly...).  It's probably the second-most valuable skill you can have (after dodging =p).  It helps your score, it helps your survival, it helps your damage output... It helps everything!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 03:21:27 AM by Random Stage 1 Fairy »

Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2011, 03:34:46 AM »
Kaguya is so much nicer.

On Hard and Lunatic. On Normal, Eirin's easier, but Kaguya is still the way to go for score and unlocking Extra. I did a no death run of Scarlet Team normal, but screwed up so much throughout that I didn't bother to upload. But Kaguya's first card is WTF compared to the Lunatic one, though I still got it. I screwed up her fourth despite being consistent at the Lunatic one. And I have no idea how to deal with the normal final on Normal while I know how to deal with it on Lunatic, and I pretty much lucked through it. Then I loaded up Normal FinalA, though with Border Team since I don't have it for Scarlet Team and no miss no bombed it just to derp Hourai Elixir.

As for the replay, it's mostly just not knowing how to do stuff. Lots of deaths and bombs were on stuff that's the same every time. Or not knowing tricks for cards. Mainly problems that can be fixed by grinding spell and stage practice.

ふねん1

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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2011, 04:39:44 AM »
On Hard and Lunatic.
I don't know, to tell the truth. A few attacks from both bosses seem to have their own ways of completely screwing you over. Of course, the fact that Kaguya actually has fully memorizeable attacks (which Eirin doesn't, technically) can help, though only with sufficient practice.

I don't have time to look at the replay right now, so I'll come back to it later.
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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2011, 04:50:32 AM »
Iirc the trick to Normal Dragon Necklace is alternating between the left and right side for each wave, whereas on Hard/Lunatic the waves are aimed to miss.  Fourth is legitimately harder on Normal than Hard though, and about even with Lunatic I guess.  Aside from those two spells everything else is basically clones with denser and/or faster bullets the higher you go (and lasers on Salamander Shield Lunatic).  I honestly have no clue how you could manage to screw up Hourai Jewel Normal when you can do it on Lunatic though... It's basically the same but with slower aimed bullets on Normal (and thus way more time to redirect them).  I guess you're just used to the pace of Lunatic for it or something.

ふねん1

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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2011, 12:55:40 PM »
I wasn't comparing attacks across difficulties, just comparing Eirin and Kaguya on the higher difficulties as a response to Engima's statement. Messed up my wording again. :V
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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2011, 01:32:09 PM »
Hourai Jewel's bullets are off the screen a lot sooner than they are on Normal.

Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2011, 01:39:39 PM »
I wasn't comparing attacks across difficulties, just comparing Eirin and Kaguya on the higher difficulties as a response to Engima's statement. Messed up my wording again. :V
Oh no, your wording was fine.  My post was referencing Enigma's.

ふねん1

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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2011, 03:42:45 PM »
Okay, I've watched the replay, and I got some pointers.

Regarding character selection, it's always up to you and what you feel most comfortable with, but I wouldn't say the Scarlet Team is the easiest to use, Remilia's shot in particular. Her familiars, as you may have noticed, stay where they are whenever you first press the focus button, and will only return to you when you unfocus. You need to make sure that when whatever you're trying to hit moves around, you gotta move your familiars too. You do this a couple of times, but considering how often you don't do it, I'm not sure the former was intentional. As for other shottypes, I highly recommend the Border Team: smaller hitbox means you can fit through even tighter spaces (should you come across them on Normal), as well as a slightly slower focused speed for more precise movements through said tight spaces. Their homing shots can help at times too.

You seem a little too eager to kill familiars before the enemies that spawned them (at least before Stage 5). Most of the time you will get more Time Orbs by keeping them alive (i.e. using your focused shot) and killing the main enemy instead. This immediately kills any familiars they produced as well and gives a small "bullet-cancelling" effect around each familiar, which can be useful for survival purposes too.

Bombing habits look okay at first glance, however you're not exactly using Remilia's bomb right. She does the most damage when she sits right on top of the enemy while bombing.

Beyond all this, it looks like you still need to become familiar with enemy locations and timings in this game. Grind everything in Practice Mode (both Stage and Spell Practice), and never be afraid to watch replays of other people playing the game. You may find new ways to deal with attacks that you never knew about before.
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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 06:03:20 PM »
Iirc the trick to Normal Dragon Necklace is alternating between the left and right side for each wave, whereas on Hard/Lunatic the waves are aimed to miss.


Left and right side of the screen or left and right side of Kaguya. Either way doesn't seem to help. Even if I hide in the corner like on Hard/Lunatic, the random balls seem to go toward me more often than they do on the higher difficulties. And the slower speeds cause the stuff to stay longer, so it's usually more dense too. Hard/Lunatic can give you something dense, but it doesn't seem as often. And I have timed out the Lunatic version a few times, I never timed out the Normal one. That and it took me a lot more tries to capture Normal for the first time than it took me for Lunatic,but then I was better when I was trying to get the Lunatic one. While Normal was trying to capture with Marisa solo.

It could maybe be one of the many cases where I find something easy that others tend to find hard or the other way around.

Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2011, 08:49:39 PM »
On Hard and Lunatic

Depends on who you are. Personally I find Eirin to be quite a lot easier than Kaguya.
No roll-of-dice Buddhist Diamond, No Life Spring Infinity, No Hourai Jewel - curse be that card. Eirin has only one card that i'm worried I might slip up on for aggrevating reasons; Omoikane's Brain. The rest of her stuff is pretty cool dodgy stuff with a minimum of luck involvement and pretty much no lasers.

Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2011, 09:32:12 PM »
The lasers on Eirin's first boss card are pretty sucky.

ふねん1

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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2011, 10:15:08 PM »
I'm leaning toward Eirin being less difficult than Kaguya myself. I don't mind Lifespring Infinity or Hourai Jewel, though I'm surprisingly bad at her first four attacks. Eirin just has Apollo 13 and sometimes Genealogy (only because if I have to make big movements to avoid lasers, I have trouble focusing on the bullets in the meantime).
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Re: Seeking Critique on a Normal TH08 run
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 01:43:21 AM »
Apollo 13 and Omoikane are both auto bomb for me.
I can handle Genealogy fine, and occasionally derp Rising Game.
Depends on how much I concentrate and luck, Astronomic entombment can be hard.

Kaguya, I can only reliably do her third card lololol. She is a bit harder, I'd say.