Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: Helepolis on May 26, 2013, 02:03:01 pm

Title: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 26, 2013, 02:03:01 pm
Compared to the 13.5 full game, this is going to be a quick cover up. Well, demos being demos and such. Did I hear a wolf howling? Headless girl?

Touhou 14  - Double Dealing Character DEMO article

(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss00a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss00.png)

Introduction
Double Dealing Character is the name for the 14th danmaku game our one-man-wonder ZUN has been working on. A pleasant surprise for Reitaisai10 visitors as they will be blessed with two Touhou games. As usual, the demo provides only 3 stages and revealing 3 bosses. The game is being sold (or was sold at this point of time) at Reitaisai for 300 Yen. Either way, let us quickly take a look at what ZUN has been working on in secret.

(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss01a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss01.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss02a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss02.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss03a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss03.png)
Our three selectable heroines. No extraordinary fashionaaabluh clothes here, unlike Marisa in UFO for example.

Gameplay
The game impacts us with a surprise return from Sakuya. While I am sure many of you have already noted this from the CD photo, I will say it here again: Sakuya is playable. A long with Marisa and Reimu, our three girls seem to have head to fly through the stages, fire danmaku, hold spell card battles and then. . . who knows. It is a Demo! Bloody hell!

The girls have two shot types. You've all already heard of the "Dark Spark" or "corrupted weapons". The rebellion of the weapons themselves seem to be very visible when you're using your shottype or spell card. So you can decide: Fight with possessed and 'dark' weapons or stick to your faithful clean and divine weapons. The girls themselves don't change appearance themselves for the shottypes, so people who thought Marisa might be wearing some alternative clothing, sorry to disappoint you.

CharacterNon FocusFocusSpell Card
Reimu (corrupted)Homing amuletsTarget lock GoheiGiant gohei, sweeping in front of Reimu
Reimu (clean)Homing amuletsStraight needlesFantasy Seal
Marisa (corrupted)Laser and magic shotsFlame throwerDark Spark
Marisa (clean)Laser and magic shotsMagic shots and exploding missileMagic Bomb
Sakuya (corrupted)KnivesKnives + delayed homing knives? ? ? ? ?
Sakuya (clean)KnivesKnives + straight green knivesInvincibility and removal of bullets

Above a quick overview of the girl's shot types. Reimu is pretty straight forward and always feels like the more easy to use characters in every game. Her corrupted gohei strongly resembles Imperishable Night, Border team where you summon Ran in Yukari mode who locks on the first target before moving to the next. Useful when the boss is forcing you away from her. Marisa's straight forward shot type makes it difficult to handle bosses if they force you to move. Though her corrupted hakkero's focus mode leaves a burning trail, which does some damage. So you're not always in a loss! And finally Sakuya has an interesting ability where just like Reimu, you summon several knives who lock on target then rush forward to deliver them pain.

Be aware that Reimu's corrupted spell card makes her immense slow. You need to be in front of the boss to deal damage. Reminds me of Youmu's slashing charge shot in 10D. Marisa's flame thrower hakkero has a pretty long range. Sitting at the bottom of the screen, you can keep hitting the boss easily.

(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss04a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss04.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss05a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss05.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss09a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss09.png)
Reimu's Gohei being out of control. Look at that beast! / Marisa's corrupted Hakkero, spitting deadly flames. / Dark Spark, the true corrupted form of her fierce magic. Oh my.

The bosses are a fish/mermaid girl by the name 'Wakasagihime', A pretty creepy girl 'Sekibanki' and the howling girl 'Kagerou Imaizumi'. Again the electric guitar is the leading theme for these girls. Interestingly the stages you visit are quite familiar. Just play and see for yourself.

(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss11a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss11.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss06a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss06.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss07a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th14/ddcss07.png)
The three bosses from the demo. ------ Wait, did Sekibanki just DETACH her head? ----- We've already been in this place, don't you agree?


Demo impression and conclusion
As a demo, it is hard to gauge the overall impression of a game. So I will be holding my judgement until the full game appears. However, many things can be noted here. ZUN has adapted his graphics again. Small detail such as the spawning animation of bullets or the scattering/vanishing effect seem to be done using different textures. Bosses use a dark, evil looking "charge up" animation giving the game an interesting look. Even when a certain mid-boss appeared using that animation I was surprised. Electric guitars (if I am not mistaking) seem to be the leading instrument during theme songs. Especially fighting the third boss, the lead instrument is clearly an electric guitar. Feels quite energetic and yet another brave move from ZUN to sway from his traditional romantic trumpets. Though those always remain around so fear not.

The demo looks promising so far. ZUN seems to indeed have eliminated any complicated system such as the trance mode in 10D. Basically you're using power, bombs, graze and some other scoring mechanics to play through the game. I am sure the experts among us could explain this part better.

Again, for final judgement, please watch warmly as girls do their best to prepare for the full game.

--Helepolis
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 02:08:25 pm
(Gonna carry over my last post from the previous thread over here, if no one minds.)

I absolutely love the fact that the game rewards you for going unfocused against bosses, and for bopping up over the PoC. If I'm not mistaken, it seems you lose a life and a bomb when you pichun, too, which probably makes up for the way this game shovels green stars at you.

If anyone figures out better how the PoC bonus works, please do share. This game is a lot of fun to play, and I'm for the first time considering trying for High Score runs over at HME. I mean hey, Easy Mode needs representation, too, right?

In conclusion: fun as hell, nicely rewards risk-taking, and WAROUN!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 02:09:58 pm
Can some one give me/us a short summary of character's shot types, thank you.

Yeah, Iw as right on the PoC part after checking it out myself.  I guess when the game calls it "Item Get Border Line", I wasn't sure those were the same thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 26, 2013, 02:11:02 pm
Can some one give me/us a short summary of character's shot types, thank you.
Ah I forgot to cover that in my article orz. Hang on.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 26, 2013, 02:13:27 pm
This seems like a good return to form so far. Glad they made it simple---the trance system in TD was interesting but felt more like another button I had to worry about.

Kagerou's a straight-up badass.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 02:15:00 pm
There is SO MUCH GRAZE in this game that if grazing is a good scoring factor it's going to overshadow everything else easily.

I think it's possible to safespot~supergraze Cirno completely, or at least her spellcard (I'm assuming the nonspell works the same way). If I'm wrong, it's because you need to be really fast to manage to circle her when she fires those icicles.

Oh, nevermind, it's definitely possible, just really hard.

You can also milk Cirno's nonspell pattern for graze by staying under her right before she shoots the icicles and skedaddling.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Unroyal Paladin on May 26, 2013, 02:19:02 pm
I'll copy my message here too, with an addition:

->I find it funny that bosses bleed power items if you do them unfocused. Kind of reward for risk type of thing, huh.  And for Marisa-B (Magic Missile I believe that is?) , even if you're focused, as long as you hit the boss, they get you power items at about the rate TD bosses drop divine spirits when you're not close to the boss. Tested, doing so in this game yields nothing regarding this power drop. If it does, it's low enough change to go without me noticing.
->The stage 1 theme's start reminded me of Bad Apple!! , (Edit: And another reminded me of Reincarnation!!!! MIMA IS BACK OMG- *shot*) , but I liked it nontheless.
-> Stages 2 and 3 totally remind me of Story of Eastern Wonderland - The Dullahan (forgot the name >.<) reminds me of Noroiko (SoEW stage 2 midboss) and Kagerou, as someone already said (I think) , of Meira (SoEW stage 2 boss). Personally, I love the referrence there with the final attack being like one of Meira's attacks.

If I'm not mistaken, it's every third time you do PoC with the bomb-limit number of items, instead of bomb fragment, it gives you a life fragment instead. And of course, the 2.0 bonus seems to always give a life fragment. Dem different sound effects, I liek.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 26, 2013, 02:23:55 pm
Updated shot type quick overview. Does anybody know the name for Sakuya's corrupted spell card? I think it reads: "Dual Banshee" but a more useful name would be better?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Garlyle on May 26, 2013, 02:31:06 pm
So... what exactly do Sakuya's bombs do?  I mean, Reimu's Fantasy Seal/Gohei swing and Marisa's Dark Spark are obvious, and the new bomb for Marisa(standard) is pretty self-explanatory upon use - it creates a little field thing that transforms bullets into power items.

But the question is, what do Sakuya's bombs even do?  As far as I can tell it just wipes bullets away after a couple seconds and turns them into points or something which is pretty standard but also years weaker than anything else... or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 26, 2013, 02:35:55 pm
Dayumn, but Cirno's sprite looks pugly. :V

Everything else looks solid graphically, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: redlakitu on May 26, 2013, 02:37:34 pm
My very first reaction to the music in this game was one of disappointment. Now I'm in the Music Room and just can't stop listening to the Stage 1 Boss theme. Incredibly addictive.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 02:39:06 pm
Should there be a Talk About Gameplay thread in HME or should everything be dumped into this thread? At least for the time being, since it's going to happen sooner or later.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 02:39:22 pm
If I'm not mistaken, it's every third time you do PoC with the bomb-limit number of items, instead of bomb fragment, it gives you a life fragment instead. And of course, the 2.0 bonus seems to always give a life fragment. Dem different sound effects, I liek.

Yes. Furthermore, what's neat is that this game happens to be perfectly suited to exactly the way I play - hanging out just under the PoC, and bopping up over it every now and then to collect everything because can't see shit, Captain. This even happens during boss fights, if you manage to capture a spellcard and zip over the PoC. Awesome stuff.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Frog on May 26, 2013, 02:39:33 pm
So... what exactly do Sakuya's bombs do?  I mean, Reimu's Fantasy Seal/Gohei swing and Marisa's Dark Spark are obvious, and the new bomb for Marisa(standard) is pretty self-explanatory upon use - it creates a little field thing that transforms bullets into power items.

But the question is, what do Sakuya's bombs even do?  As far as I can tell it just wipes bullets away after a couple seconds and turns them into points or something which is pretty standard but also years weaker than anything else... or am I missing something?
Sakuyas corrupted bombs as far as I can tell, activate a cherry border like field ala pcb.
If you get hit it'll then clear the screen, but if you survive it without getting hit you get back 3 bomb stars.
There may or may not be a few frames of invincibility before and after activating it... I can't tell.
Essentially a more op version of Mari C from SA.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on May 26, 2013, 02:51:46 pm
I played ReimuA and for the first stage couldn't stop going "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS"

It's like she's the grim reaper throwing her homing scythe around from Castlevania or RosenkreuzStilette or something.

Anyway, this game looks pretty cool, and I love the stage 2 and 3 bosses' attacks. I'm really excited for this game.

Also, MarisaB's bomb is... interesting. I'm not entirely sure what it does in terms of damage, but it creates some kind of forcefield that moves up the screen where you can sit to be invincible for a very significant chunk of time; and all enemy bullets that go in turn to power items. And yeah, SakuyaA's bomb is Nitori's Camoflague almost exactly, save for possibly having a nice chunk of invincibility on cast.

I'm not sure how I feel about SakuyaA. Her possessed knives tend to do stupid things like all locking onto a wimpy fairy or two, or attacking the second bosses'... uh... familiars... instead of the boss itself and making me time out a - midboss noncard-. They're pretty good on the third boss though.

MarisaA's flamethrower doesn't seem to have much worry about vertical length like Youmu's gimmick did in TD; it seems nice.

Should probably be noted that Sakuya's unfocused is Spread Knives. And, I'm still not really sure what SakuyaB's bomb exactly does. (I mean, invincibility and removal of bullets, yeah, but more or less all bombs do that) I guess SakuyaB's bomb in PCB pretty much only did that, but it was in exchange for a pretty powerful shot type and the most bombs per life...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 03:00:52 pm
If general discussion is allowed here, so spectulation time:
Since my "new youkais" theory got debunked by making the bosses seem like they have been living here for a while, I have another theory. Everytime boss apears or are charging up an attack, black smoke appears. So would it be possible that this black smoke is what is causing youkais to start attacking? Especially since the new bosses seem to be passive otherwise.

Site note, I find Sekibanki's "burning wire" bullet pattern to be verry cool. Heck, she is porbably my favourite boss of the three. Though I find it weird that she's called rokurokubi even though her ability makes her more like nukekubi (rokurokubi is the one with elastic neck where as nukekubi is the one with detachable floating head).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on May 26, 2013, 03:06:50 pm
Updated shot type quick overview. Does anybody know the name for Sakuya's corrupted spell card? I think it reads: "Dual Banshee" but a more useful name would be better?
Pretty sure the translation is 'Silver-Coloured Another Dimension', where Another Dimension is in katakana. Less awkward wording would be something like 'The Silver Otherworld'?

The 'clean' card is Dual Banish, I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:23:14 pm
Is it just me, or do the non-spells seem a lot harder than they did in the past in lunatic?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 26, 2013, 03:27:10 pm
-EDIT-

Nevermind, I managed to find it out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Solais on May 26, 2013, 03:29:03 pm
The Stage 2 Boss theme is SO YS, it's incredible. For me, the music of TD was meh at best, but this one is just either beautiful or outright super awesome. Those electric guitars are very fresh, and... yeah, it's really a lot like Ys. Which is awesome.

Besides this, the unique weapons, the particle effect changes and the weird characters, along with the POC gimmick, I'm in love with all of them. If the final game will continue with this, I'll may have a new favorite.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 26, 2013, 03:31:02 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/iry3S14.png)

can someone tell me what's written on those options? I really need to know.

Look at the tools that the previous games have it's the same thing. (TH11-13) It has something to do with input response.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gray21oh on May 26, 2013, 03:33:48 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/iry3S14.png)

can someone tell me what's written on those options? I really need to know.
They are the input latencies, usually you'd set them to what your computer can handle. It goes from top to bottom Simple > Normal > Automatic > Fast. Its recommended that you have it on automatic.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 26, 2013, 03:35:25 pm
Sometimes automatic gives me problems while I'm recording, despite my overall good computer. So, it's better to put it as fast to ensure good speeds. But anyway, that's just me.

Thanks for the info!

But anyway... as for my opinion about the game so far:

characters are FUCKING AWESOME

Guitars are FUCKING AWESOME (Especially stage 3 boss' theme <3333)

Flamethrower and dark spark are FUCKING AWESOME!! :getdown:

Seriously, I almost cried... everything is too awesome so far for me and I loved everything about the game. I'd say this has the potential to become my favorite touhou title when the full version is released.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:45:32 pm
characters are FUCKING AWESOME

Guitars are FUCKING AWESOME (Especially stage 3 boss' theme <3333)

Flamethrower and dark spark are FUCKING AWESOME!! :getdown:

Seriously, I almost cried... everything is too awesome so far for me and I loved everything about the game. I'd say this has the potential to become my favorite touhou title when the full version is released.

And this is why I've been on these forums for going on 5 years now. There is no Touhou community in Iceland, and trust me, I've tried converting these people. Their bodies are not ready. So in lieu of that, there's nothing that pleases me more than being able to share in the joy of a new release with others here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 26, 2013, 03:50:59 pm
** pats Ammy on the shoulder **

Do not worry my friend. The number of touhou fans in NL is quite unknown and low as well. I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 03:54:53 pm
I understand that myself.  I live in a tiny town and pretty much all the gamers here are into FPS or Sports games.  I mostly end up playing alone and spending a lot of time on the computer goofing with anything Touhou related.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sparen on May 26, 2013, 03:56:29 pm
The game laaaaaaags for me. The graphics are awesome (except for player death, which is sort of seizure-inducing), but I think some of them were overdone, so the game runs at 30 FPS...

Oh yeah, and that 3rd boss's spell is cheap. When the boss moves on the lower half of the screen and rams the player without warning, it's impossible to do the spell blind.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gray21oh on May 26, 2013, 04:04:00 pm
Am I the only one who thinks the music is a tad bit of a step backwards from TD? Cause Stage 1's boss, Stage 2 and Stage 3's boss themes are kinda meh to me. :V
But hey everyone can't agree on some subjects, the game play is pretty alright, the auto point gimmick is pretty alright although I hope it doesn't get too brick crushingly hard like SA's graze gimmick. Typing's are pretty interesting (Reimu A is pretty sweet) along with the new characters that appeared.
Overall so far so good, hope it continues to be good in the full version, and I hope I don't look over the tracks yet to come.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on May 26, 2013, 04:18:21 pm
I suspect I AM the Scottish Touhou scene, pretty much. I think I've bumped into 2 or 3 people in the whole country who know of the series.

Also, an interesting excerpt I found in the MarisaB Scenario:
Quote
Marisa:
A werewolf, huh?...
As if meeting a mermaid in the lake wasn't enough for today,
I had to meet a half-human as well.
I'm not sure about rokurokubi, though...
are they humans from neck down?


Kagerou:
A mermaid in the lake?...
Do you mean Wakasagihime?


Marisa:
Exactly.
Do you know her?


Kagerou:
Somewhat.
Through Youkai Grassroots Network.
Though I also tried to eat her once
by mistake.


Marisa:
Hmm, I see.
So you are planning something, right?
Normally quiet youkai
are secretly gathering...

[Grassroots was a very specific translation, it seems. I had to look up the term, but apparently it's a political phrase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassroots).]

This seems to be the first big hint at the source of the problem. Could our villain be a leader stirring up the proletariat into rebellion?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 26, 2013, 04:24:18 pm
Am I the only one who thinks the music is a tad bit of a step backwards from TD?

Yes, you're the only one :V

As for myself, I LOVED the guitars as Zun's instrument of choice this time... and I'd say I prefer the boss themes over the stage themes overall, but the latter is also pretty good.

I don't know... I think those guitars gave the game a "darker tune" something that gives a macabre or sinister feeling... and for me it turned out pretty well. Some innovation is always good, but most of the time they go wrong and move backwards. However, I still think Zun did a step forward instead.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Garlyle on May 26, 2013, 04:25:09 pm
This seems to be the first big hint at the source of the problem. Could our villain be a leader stirring up the proletariat into rebellion?
Oh shit

As for the TD music thing: I kind of liked TD's music and kind of didn't; it was great while in-game but a lot of it felt lackluster to listen to on its own?  We'll see how this entry feels in time I guess
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 04:27:02 pm
The game laaaaaaags for me.
Dude, I use Linux - I can't even open custom.exe. Fortunately my room-mate has a Windows machine, so I'm jumping between the two computers, trying different configurations to see what could reduce lag.

If anyone feels like sharing how to reduce lag, please share.

Through Youkai Grassroots Network.
FINALLY! Class struggle in Gensokyo! For so long I have said that the Spellcard Rules oppress the youkai while giving the humans privilege, the elitist bourgeois that they are. How long, brothers and sisters, how long will we stand for this inequity? Youkai of Gensokyo, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains (and possibly your lives)!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sparen on May 26, 2013, 04:37:45 pm
Dude, I use Linux - I can't even open custom.exe. Fortunately my room-mate has a Windows machine, so I'm jumping between the two computers, trying different configurations to see what could reduce lag.

I couldn't open it either. Using Wine 1.5.27 b/c 1.5.30 breaks Danmakufu.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 04:55:03 pm
Well, after jumping back and forth between Windows Comp and Linux Comp, I think I found the configuration that best reduces lag. And because all I can see are "?????????????????????????" with each option, I don't really know what I'm picking here. I basically checked and unchecked everything, one option at a time, until I found the best combination.

In the end, the only changes I made are:

1. Selecting the bottom option for the CPU thingy.
2. Selecting "1/2" where it lets you pick 1/1, 1/2 or 1/3.

This gives me relatively consistent speed, i.e., from like 52 to 60 FPS.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: OtakuGray on May 26, 2013, 05:10:42 pm
Wait, did Sekibanki just DETACH her head?

Could she be a Nukekubi by any chance?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 05:15:44 pm
Could she be a Nukekubi by any chance?
This is a weird thing. You see, her species is listed as being rokurokubi which, as you can guess, is really weird considering her ability to detach her head rather than make her neck elastic. Then again, her title is "Bizarreness of the Rokurokubi", so it might be intensional.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: OtakuGray on May 26, 2013, 05:19:52 pm
This is a weird thing. You see, her species is listed as being rokurokubi which, as you can guess, is really weird considering her ability to detach her head rather than make her neck elastic. Then again, her title is "Bizarreness of the Rokurokubi", so it might be intensional.

That is strange. Maybe it's ZUN's way of referencing Hearn because according to the wiki on Nukekubi, " Lafcadio Hearn relates that the Nukekubi can be misidentified as Rokurokubi."
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 26, 2013, 05:24:36 pm
So, impressions from the demo! I played through on Hard with Reimu Possessed/A, but I've also dabbled a bit with the other shottypes. Reimu Possessed, by the way, is awesome. Finally the gohei is used in a shottype, and I love the bomb. It even rocks Reimu back and forth when you use it, as if Reimu has to struggle to hold on. Nice touch there, ZUN.
It seems like we'll be visiting some pretty familiar places as well. When I heard Stage 3's theme, I was a little surprised that ZUN made another Theme of Eastern Story remix for it, but it shouldn't come off as too much of a surprise.
The gameplay seemed to be somewhat easy on Normal, hence why I skipped straight to Hard. Of course, the Stage 3 boss caught me totally off guard. I had to resort to swinging that fricking bigass gohei like it was going out of style. Nevertheless, it's all good fun.
Finally, the system of this game is pretty nice. I really like how you can go to the top of the screen and just go nuts collecting resources. Of course, a lot of my deaths were from doing that, so it's very much risk-reward.
All in all, I really like the game so far and I can't wait for the full version. This is certainly going to be something good.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: OkashiiKisei on May 26, 2013, 05:27:13 pm
Youkai Grassroots Network.
I actually thought that meant that youkai's answer to internet/telephones was magical long-distance communication through grass. :ohdear: Kinda like how elephants communicate on long-distance through earth vibrations.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 05:42:25 pm

FINALLY! Class struggle in Gensokyo! For so long I have said that the Spellcard Rules oppress the youkai while giving the humans privilege, the elitist bourgeois that they are. How long, brothers and sisters, how long will we stand for this inequity? Youkai of Gensokyo, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains (and possibly your lives)!

It's not like all youkai follow those rules for all humans they eat, eh?(PMiSS/PostMyst reveal as much in character profiles)

Yukari once said bad things happen when humans gather. The same goes for youkai, but much worse can happen should they gather.
But the question is, who is causing these rebellions? Who is causing these weapon malfunctions?
The answer is obvious.
Liquid Ocelot is utilizing Guns of the Patriots and Sons of the Patriots in Gensokyo, and Armstrong will be the Extra boss.
It's either that, or Mima became some uber-poltergeist or something.


Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on May 26, 2013, 05:43:38 pm
OK, this is going to go straight into speculation territory but I just want to get this theory out here.

So the characters have all had their weapons possessed and powered up. When they use these possessed weapons they seem almost possessed themselves, showing levels of aggression that seem unusual even for Gensokyo's standards. Without the weapons they're much calmer and making an effort to solve the problem rather than just beat down everyone.

At the same time, a group of docile youkai has risen up in rebellion - supposedly acting on their own terms, but with their actions too in-sync to be coincidental. The only clue we have as to why is that one mention of the Youkai Grassroots Network, which we know at least two of our current bosses have been involved in.

Now, based on those two points, here's my theory - the culprit is responsible for the weapon possession and inciting the revolution because, for some reason, they will benefit from war between humans and youkai. This is the meaning behind the title - Double Dealing Character, because the villain is goading on both sides at the same time. Why I'm not sure, but given the kanji title my suspicion is that it's something demonic.

Obviously very little of this is based in fact so far and I'm mainly throwing it out so that if I'm right I will be able to feel like the smartest person on earth for about a week.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 05:45:10 pm
Now, based on those two points, here's my theory - the culprit is responsible for the weapon possession and inciting the revolution because, for some reason, they will benefit from war between humans and youkai. This is the meaning behind the title - Double Dealing Character, because the villain is goading on both sides at the same time. Why I'm not sure, but given the kanji title my suspicion is that it's something demonic.

Obviously very little of this is based in fact so far and I'm mainly throwing it out so that if I'm right I will be able to feel like the smartest person on earth for about a week.

 War economy, eh? (http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/War_economy)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 05:45:20 pm
Liquid Ocelot is utilizing Guns of the Patriots of Sons of the Patriots in Gensokyo, and Armstrong will be the Extra boss.
It's either that, or Mima became some uber-poltergeist or something.
Give Suika her gourd back. It is obvious you have been drinking way too much all this time.
Also, why it is always Mima? Didn't PC-98 already have one poltergeist character?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 05:47:17 pm
Give Suika her gourd back. It is obvious you have been drinking way too much all this time.
Also, why it is always Mima? Didn't PC-98 already have one poltergeist character?

Maybe ZUN decided to make them into one character.
Shh......
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 06:00:34 pm
This sounds totally plausible and ZUNesque. I'm sold.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tiamat on May 26, 2013, 06:28:26 pm
That is strange. Maybe it's ZUN's way of referencing Hearn because according to the wiki on Nukekubi, " Lafcadio Hearn relates that the Nukekubi can be misidentified as Rokurokubi."

That would be pretty funny if that were true.

Reimu: And there was a Rokurokubi that detached its head!  Rokurokubis aren't supposed to be able to do that!

Aya: To get to the bottom of this, we decided to ask resident youkai expert, one Miss Yukari Yakumo.

Yukari: Rokurokubi have always been able to detach their heads.

Aya: I really do not believe so many people could made a mistake about this ability of such a common youkai that lives among humans.

Yukari: Certainly, that is why I am the resident youkai expert, and they are not.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 26, 2013, 06:35:24 pm
I am in love. This is definitely the best first half of any Touhou game to date. My one and only complaint is that there is input lag, which is unfortunate because 10D was the first game since PC-98 that didn't require a vsync patch on my end, but that will be fixed eventually. In the mean time, good fun on all three stages, a score/survival mechanic that actually encourages you to play the game, and pulse-pounding music. This could shape up to be one of the best in the series if the second half continues this momentum. :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 26, 2013, 06:44:42 pm
So just played the demo with all characters on Easy :V

The game looks amazing, but Kagerou's last spell is ughhhhh.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 26, 2013, 06:45:17 pm
That is quite a well thought out speculation Rou. Mainly because it is true that there seems to be corruption going on and making the girls aggressive. Beautiful.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Savory on May 26, 2013, 06:49:56 pm
Just beat the game on easy. Didn't die once!  :V

I am so drawing Kagerou.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on May 26, 2013, 07:06:22 pm
Oh gawd, the game absolutely AWESOME. It's absolutely perfect for POC whores like myself, and both stage and boss gimmicks are just... :o

That said, I kind of think the soundtrack's rather meh compared to most of the series. They're fine on their own, but I don't see them being remixed anytime soon. I'd say the best themes were Sekibanki's and Stage 3. Wakasagihime's and Kagerou's were passable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 07:10:53 pm
So MarisaB's bomb is fucking ridiculous.

Died? Have three fresh bombs. Use them to get 2.0 life pieces effortlessly. Extend get. Ran out of broken bombs? Commit suicide.

The best part is that the bomb acts as a shield until it's gone. You can spam it against bosses and have no fear for your life whatsoever. If ZUN is going to raise the number of life pieces needed for a life, it's because of this.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 07:16:35 pm
I'm willing to bet that Roe's speculation will prove to be true.
It fits what's happening in the demo perfectly.
I wonder, who will the culprit be? What Youkai/mythological being could she be based on?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Qwertyzxcv on May 26, 2013, 07:40:56 pm
Normal mode is too easy and Lunatic is too hard. The spells aren't really that fun, and they aren't that amazing. It lags and crashed twice. Im happy there is Cirno, the first character is cute, the second one's head?...and the third one's head looks, weird. The music is REALLY boring, I wish ZUN went back to PCB or IN style music...  :(
Dissapointment  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yonowaaru on May 26, 2013, 07:47:31 pm
Hereby my expectations:


- The final boss will be a third deva. The japanese title, kishinjou, means 'Shining needle castle' written like it is, but with other kanji, it could mean 'Oni god castle'
- The final boss of this game is also responsible for the events of 13.5. In Miko's storyline, she mentions that Kokoro is actually a tsukumogami originating from the masks of Kawakatsu no Hata.
In the prologue of Double Dealing Character, it is mentioned that the main character's weapons are also becoming tsukumogami.
- Kokoro might reappear in this game, since she has the ability to control emotions, which is what seems to be happening to the main characters using their 'cursed' weapons.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 26, 2013, 07:48:32 pm
Did you all go to Reitaisai and get your copies? I want to play this game.

Cirno's artwork reminds me of a picture I drew long ago:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/e7zcis.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 08:08:24 pm
OK I know I asked this before, but all I heard was "just because, it looks weird", so let me ask again:

What is so wrong about Cirno? Because I'm not seeing it. There's nothing, to me, about her proportions that makes this Cirno design so much more derp than any other Cirno that ZUN has done before. So you artistic experts out there, break it down for me, please. Am I nuts? Why does her sprite look totally fine to me? What's wrong with how she's drawn?

And please don't say "head too big for torso" because come on. That's par for the course with ZUN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 08:14:10 pm
OK I know I asked this before, but all I heard was "just because, it looks weird", so let me ask again:

What is so wrong about Cirno? Because I'm not seeing it. There's nothing, to me, about her proportions that makes this Cirno design so much more derp than any other Cirno that ZUN has done before. So you artistic experts out there, break it down for me, please. Am I nuts? Why does her sprite look totally fine to me? What's wrong with how she's drawn?

And please don't say "head too big for torso" because come on. That's par for the course with ZUN.

I thought it was the mindless expression she has.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 26, 2013, 08:15:07 pm
There's nothing wrong with Cirno!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on May 26, 2013, 08:15:34 pm
Well, ZUN did the boss sprites differently before. It wasn't just the ZUNart pasted into the game but instead looked more like the player sprites. Look at Cirno's PoFV or StB appearances for example. (Looks much better imo.)
(http://i.imgur.com/KnZVxzv.jpg)

By the way, is the demo something you can download for free, or will it eventually become one? If so, how long does it take?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aeteas on May 26, 2013, 08:21:13 pm
The demo was pretty fun. Overall the patterns seem quite fun, but I feel like they're a bit lacking in variety. For survival, none of the shot types are terrible, though I think the giant gohei shot might be the easiest. The stage 2 background seems to cause a lot of lag on my computer while stage 1 and stage 3 don't. I'm pretty sure its the background since I get lag during the nonspells, but not during the spellcards.

Also, Kagerou is hard.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 08:23:56 pm
Well, ZUN did the boss sprites differently before. It wasn't just the ZUNart pasted into the game but instead looked more like the player sprites. Look at Cirno's PoFV or StB appearances for example. (Looks much better imo.)
Ah, but Cirno's DDC sprite is consistent with the other sprites in the game, which are all basically much, much smaller versions of their cut-in portraits.

Although I did used to giggle at the way Cirno's little legs wiggled in StB.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SirChaotick on May 26, 2013, 08:35:14 pm
Ooh, a demo~ Not for me though, not going to get access to any conventions anytime soon. I'll be content with Youtube for now...

This new game seems rather nice though. The visuals are a huge notch up, at any rate. Absolutely love those.
The music... it's rather different from the usual fare, but it sure is refreshing. I'm a bit divided about the electric guitar emphasis, but I feel I could get used to it.

The actual gameplay I'll have to wait for I guess.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on May 26, 2013, 08:39:16 pm
it seems like ReimuA can have a pseudo MariAli beam by mashing Shift to get both unfocused homing amulets and the homing gohei at the same time, although I'm not sure if the dps is any actually higher
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 26, 2013, 08:41:34 pm
By the way, is the demo something you can download for free, or will it eventually become one? If so, how long does it take?

You can download the demo, it worked for me~

How long does it take to download the demo? It took about 10 minutes for me. I think it takes about 10 or 20 minutes to download the demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on May 26, 2013, 08:42:08 pm
ReimuA looks more like the new Border Team to me since the gohei behaves pretty much like Ran did. Not sure if she is as strong, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 26, 2013, 08:45:10 pm
Great. The game crashes every time I try to boot it up. :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 08:46:34 pm
Great. The game crashes every time I try to boot it up. :(
Rename the Japanese-named folder to something else.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AJS on May 26, 2013, 08:48:46 pm
I usually prefer boss themes significantly more than stage themes, but this time I love them both equally.  ZUN's new music style is quite different, and I welcome the change. :D

Not saying his previous style was bad, of course.  It's just nice to hear some variety.  I was also pleasantly surprised by the two songs he did for Hopeless Masquerade, which I almost didn't think were done by ZUN until I checked the music room.

As for gameplay, I'm pretty satisfied.  1cc'd on Hard, and it was a sufficient challenge for me, and the gimmicks for each boss were quite interesting.  Sekibanki's my favorite so far in terms of design and danmaku.  And those heads are just adorable. :3

I couldn't be more excited for the full game to come out.  So far it looks very promising to me!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 26, 2013, 08:59:35 pm
I couldn't even 1cc Normal. I hope this absence of deathbombing doesn't become a trend. :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 09:01:01 pm
There's something about the music that has this space feel to it. I love it!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 26, 2013, 09:02:04 pm
The music isn't sticking to me yet, but I probably just need a little more time and some more sleep to pay attention to it :U
All the new characters are pretty cool, but man, the danmaku in this game is hard!

According to Wikipedia, amanojaku can "able to provoke a person's darkest desires and thus instigate him into perpetrating wicked deeds." Which is a relatively plausible reason behind the stirring of normally quiet youkai.
Someone suggested the black smoke around the bosses is a sign of some sort of possession or something. I wouldn't be too surprised.

Now, based on those two points, here's my theory - the culprit is responsible for the weapon possession and inciting the revolution because, for some reason, they will benefit from war between humans and youkai. This is the meaning behind the title - Double Dealing Character, because the villain is goading on both sides at the same time. Why I'm not sure, but given the kanji title my suspicion is that it's something demonic.
I think this is a pretty cool theory too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AJS on May 26, 2013, 09:09:34 pm
I couldn't even 1cc Normal. I hope this absence of deathbombing doesn't become a trend. :(
It still exists.  I should know because the first time I 1cc'd the game, I did so by deathbombing while on my last life while the stage 3 boss was exploding. :V

Maybe the window of opportunity's been shrunken a bit?  I'm not sure, though.  I didn't notice a difference.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on May 26, 2013, 09:11:48 pm
I couldn't even 1cc Normal. I hope this absence of deathbombing doesn't become a trend. :(
I've deathbombed at least twice, once with Reimu and once with Marisa.

I'm a little disappointed by the music (none of the songs are really catchy or outstanding), but stage 4+ will probably have a lot of great themes, so I'll just be patient for the full release.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 09:17:10 pm
The wolfgirl's song I loved immediately, the other ones slowly grew on me. It seems like they're the kind of songs that slowly endear themselves to you.

I was much the same way about "Let's Live In A Lovely Cemetery". I used to think it was a pointless, forgettable song; now it's one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 09:29:15 pm
I just figured out what SakuyaA's focused shot does. Holy shit that's innovative. Stopping enemies in place. It's probably been mentioned already but, y'know, in case it wasn't.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 26, 2013, 09:35:51 pm
It actually does that too? Huh, I didn't notice that before. Interesting. It seems for whatever reason that using the possessed weapons is for the most part better than going without them. Of course, I expect there to be a Stage 4 or 5 thing happening depending on whether you went for the possessed or not possessed version of each character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on May 26, 2013, 09:38:14 pm
http://thpatch.net/w/images/8/8e/Thcrap.zip (http://thpatch.net/w/images/8/8e/Thcrap.zip)
English patch is here. Just open thcrap_configure.exe, pick option 5 (english), confirm till it asks for the game path, paste the path to DDC so it won't bother with other games. It'll create a english game shortcut in game folder.
So far, only dialogues are there, but it's something :3.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 26, 2013, 09:38:47 pm
I think this and HM end the religion arc and start a new arc: the tsukumogami arc! After all, this, FS and HM all have tsukumogami as a focus, to varying majorities.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 09:41:56 pm
I just noticed something. When you shoot at the boss you absorb these faint little pellets. Shoot at the boss for like 2 seconds, stop, and then look at your character. What are they?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 26, 2013, 09:46:10 pm
I noticed the pellets, but I don't know what they are. I'll have to look at that at some point.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Greatest Dog on May 26, 2013, 09:56:50 pm
Pretty sure those are PIV items, only on a small scale.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 26, 2013, 09:57:50 pm
The wolfgirl's song I loved immediately, the other ones slowly grew on me.

That's interesting. I remember loving all of the themes immediately, and this doesn't happen to me so often... even while regarding about Zun's music. I'm slow overall to let a song "grow" on me... but if it's really good, then it will eventually happen for sure, even if it takes a while for that. (The wolfgirl's theme makes me think of halloween, btw) xD

Anyway, I know it's unrelated to the Music topic... but I also found the danmaku on this game to be quite hard. Not sure if it's as hard as SA or UFO, but it's definitively harder than TD (which is a good thing, because some challenge is always fun!)

I enjoyed the level of difficulty overall... it's challenging enough but at the same time it doesn't feel cheap for the most part. (And I just got a hard 1cc as well, hooray!)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Desu_Cake on May 26, 2013, 10:11:15 pm
I absolutely love Corrupted Sakuya's bomb. it's perfect for practising without worrying about dying.
Imaizumi's theme is wonderful, and Sekibanki is adorable, I love her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 26, 2013, 10:14:19 pm
Sakuya B is the new Reimu A. I sense graze abuse.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on May 26, 2013, 10:25:19 pm
You can download the demo, it worked for me~

How long does it take to download the demo? It took about 10 minutes for me. I think it takes about 10 or 20 minutes to download the demo.
Legally? From what I've heard, Tasofro made the HM demo downloadable on their site. I know ZUN is selling the DDC demo at Reitaisai, but I want to know if he'll make it available to download later (assuming that's not the case already).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 10:51:21 pm
I absolutely love Corrupted Sakuya's bomb. it's perfect for practising without worrying about dying.
It's also an awesome nostalgia from PCB; specifically, the Cherry Blossom Border. Notice how the bubble around Sakuya slowly shrinks - if you hit something during this time, everything on the screen clears, and the bomb is over. Loved that about PCB, love it about DDC.

I enjoyed the level of difficulty overall... it's challenging enough but at the same time it doesn't feel cheap for the most part. (And I just got a hard 1cc as well, hooray!)
That was my feeling, too. Like, "wow, this is fun!" during the challenging bits, instead of "wow this is %#$@&!!!!!", as was the case in UFO.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SpoonyGundam on May 26, 2013, 11:38:57 pm
That is strange. Maybe it's ZUN's way of referencing Hearn because according to the wiki on Nukekubi, " Lafcadio Hearn relates that the Nukekubi can be misidentified as Rokurokubi."

I looked into this a little earlier too, and it's not just that he relates that the nukekubi can be misidentified, it's literally what he himself does (http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/kwaidanJ.htm).

So I figure you're probably right. ZUN probably knows the difference, but Lafcadio Hearn/Koizumi Yakumo is so important that even his mistakes are canon.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tiamat on May 26, 2013, 11:42:40 pm
I looked into this a little earlier too, and it's not just that he relates that the nukekubi can be misidentified, it's literally what he himself does (http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/kwaidanJ.htm).

So I figure you're probably right. ZUN probably knows the difference, but Lafcadio Hearn/Koizumi Yakumo is so important that even his mistakes are canon.

Yukari: I am the representative of Gensokyo's reality. If I say rokurokubi can detach their heads, then rokurokubi can detach their heads!


Although ZUN says in the music comments that he's actually unsure if they can or not, I believe.  Too bad, cause personally I find the Hearn thing much funnier.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 11:49:23 pm
Sakuya B's bomb is really good for collecting point items. I got like 5 2.0 bonuses in the 3rd stage when I bombed liberally. It auto collects every point item on the screen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 11:52:21 pm
That was my feeling, too. Like, "wow, this is fun!" during the challenging bits, instead of "wow this is %#$@&!!!!!", as was the case in UFO.
...Eh. There's unfortunately one offender at the moment and it's the stage 3 midspell, plus stage 2's fight as a whole if you get bad RNG and you happen to slip. Doesn't change the fact that this is by far the best stage 1 boss in the series, or that 5/6 of stage 3's boss is amazing pure dodging patterns.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Raikaria on May 26, 2013, 11:53:34 pm
*Checks Wiki*

*Sees Cirno manages to be Stage 1 Midboss again*

Keep goin' Cirno.

Although apparently she's lost two wings.

Sakuya's portait is cool.

Stage 3 is in the Bamboo Forest? Wonder if that means Stage 4 may see Reisen. I've not played or seen about the plot yet. [Nor do I plan to until release]
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 11:54:34 pm
No way it's Reisen. Plus 100% guaranteed the entire cast is composed of freaks folklore. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 11:54:38 pm
Yukari: I am the representative of Gensokyo's reality. If I say rokurokubi can detach their heads, then rokurokubi can detach their heads!


Although ZUN says in the music comments that he's actually unsure if they can or not, I believe.  Too bad, cause personally I find the Hearn thing much funnier.

There's a youkai species in the same class as the rokurokubi that CAN detach their heads, actually.
Funny how this youkai is a cross between the rokurokubi and the dullahan, even though a similar thing already exists in Japanese mythology.

Eh, oh well. More Western Youkai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Raikaria on May 26, 2013, 11:55:38 pm
No way it's Reisen. Plus 100% guaranteed the entire cast is composed of freaks folklore. :V

Even as a midboss? Cirno manages to be Stage 1 MB, and they *are* in the Bamboo Forest.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 11:57:11 pm
As a serious reply, I'd be surprised to see a recurring character so late into the game. Kogasa in TD Stage 3 is ALMOST a counterexample, but, well, stage 3, demo etcetera.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 11:58:25 pm
Watch as Cirno returns as Extra midboss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SpoonyGundam on May 27, 2013, 12:10:25 am
Although ZUN says in the music comments that he's actually unsure if they can or not, I believe.  Too bad, cause personally I find the Hearn thing much funnier.

Hah, well fair enough. That's kind of funny too in its own way.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 27, 2013, 12:16:03 am
I like how the plot this time is focused on youkai. By the way... since we got even a Rokurokubi this time (And I thought ZUN would not be able to make such an ugly youkai look cute, but he did!) Then I suppose it'd be cool to see a Baku as well. Manipulation of dreams/etc... it'd be some fun stuff.

I also predict the last boss will be a really powerful Youkai, such as a Nurarihyon. But only time will tell.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tiamat on May 27, 2013, 12:17:08 am
There's a youkai species in the same class as the rokurokubi that CAN detach their heads, actually.

Yea, and Lafcadio Hearn mixes it up with the rokurokubi. That's where the Hearn joke comes from.

Maribel: And there was a rokurokubi in my dream, and it detached its head which went flying after me!

Renko: Er... Merry, Rokurokubis don't do that. That's a nukekubi.

Maribel: I know what a rokurokubi is, Renko -_-


(one thousand years later or in Merry's next dream or whatever the hell you think her relation to Yukari is...)

Sekibanki: I'm officially a rokurokubi? Are you sure I'm not a nu...

Yukari: You are a rokurokubi and that's final!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 27, 2013, 12:23:04 am
Yea, and Lafcadio Hearn mixes it up with the rokurokubi. That's where the Hearn joke comes from.

Well it was in a tale he collected, but he could have noticed it.

Eh.
I'm just nitpicking, now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 12:41:33 am
Words cannot describe how much I want functional spell practice right now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on May 27, 2013, 12:52:09 am
Yea, and Lafcadio Hearn mixes it up with the rokurokubi. That's where the Hearn joke comes from.

Maribel: And there was a rokurokubi in my dream, and it detached its head which went flying after me!

Renko: Er... Merry, Rokurokubis don't do that. That's a nukekubi.

Maribel: I know what a rokurokubi is, Renko -_-


(one thousand years later or in Merry's next dream or whatever the hell you think her relation to Yukari is...)

Sekibanki: I'm officially a rokurokubi? Are you sure I'm not a nu...

Yukari: You are a rokurokubi and that's final!

Okay, this line of jokes is making my night!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on May 27, 2013, 01:12:08 am
Yea, and Lafcadio Hearn mixes it up with the rokurokubi. That's where the Hearn joke comes from.
Given what we already know, I could easily see the whole thing being an in-joke where ZUN is researching the youkai with the rokurokubi in mind, gets corrected by someone and then becomes confused with the whole Hearn thing, and decides to run with it. Maybe the confusion over whether or not the rokurokubi is supposed to separate their head is what made its way into Gensokyo~
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on May 27, 2013, 01:41:08 am
Dammit, the werewolf is slapping my shit so hard I don't even. She's harder than Orin. I couldn't do ANY of the spells, and the non-spells wall me after one or two waves.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on May 27, 2013, 01:45:44 am
compare times you've fought orin versus times you've fought kagerou
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 27, 2013, 01:58:29 am
Don't worry, I'm sure ZUN will tone her down for the final version.

And by tone down I mean once you realize she isn't going to get easier in the full version you'll put your mind to it and realize you had the power within all along.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Genso on May 27, 2013, 02:01:12 am
I like how the plot this time is focused on youkai. By the way... since we got even a Rokurokubi this time (And I thought ZUN would not be able to make such an ugly youkai look cute, but he did!) Then I suppose it'd be cool to see a Baku as well. Manipulation of dreams/etc... it'd be some fun stuff.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend about something like this a long time ago concerning baku and ungaikyo (This was quite a while before DDC was even known). It involved an old legend that dreams could possibly be a way of conveying the true self while nightmares are a persons fears and malice and that these fears can corrupt a person to commit evil. Though I'd think a baku could serve it's own plot based on Mizuki Shigeru’s Mujara.

Was talking about DDC with a friend and I can only hope that one of the bosses is an ungaikyo just from seeing the mirror on the title screen. Mirrors are said to reveal someone's true self or their deepest desires (what it reveals or does depends on the legend and the origin of the legend), so I would hope that it's an ungaikyo (based on bloody Mary or some other western myth about mirrors?) that is stirring up a person's deep and dark parts of their souls. Though that's just me being a hopeless dreamer. :3

Though I would probably think that an amanojaku, like someone said, would be a plausible choice (hoping for this too since Nurarihyon was my favorite manga)  and all these other theories sound logical. I'm hoping that they are right so we can all bask in that person's moment of glory :P

On a different note. I love EVERYTHING about this game! The PoC gimmick, the music, the characters, and the shot types! Though I do think the game is WAY too easy, even on hard and lunatic. Still, this'll probably end up as my favorite game with Kagerou (found her to be pretty easy except when using Reimu A) topping my list of favorite characters next to Okuu.~
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Nyyl on May 27, 2013, 02:03:17 am
... Maybe the confusion over whether or not the rokurokubi is supposed to separate their head is what made its way into Gensokyo~
I'd believe it. I don't supposed it's too far-fetched to assume that the trail of "bullets" in this spell card (http://i.imgur.com/2K1Cb7J.jpg) of hers is meant to resemble a stretching neck. Maybe she's just a vague, confused hybrid :B
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on May 27, 2013, 02:05:55 am
compare times you've fought orin versus times you've fought kagerou
5 vs 40. Still, I don't think my first 5 runs against Orin went as badly :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: chum on May 27, 2013, 02:41:46 am
I recorded a demonstration video to show how dumb the game is right now. Hopefully ZUN will apply the necessary changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buAxFMJ4dZc
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gradius on May 27, 2013, 02:59:06 am
Finally the wait is over... and got to try on this demo... what I feel of this one so far...

I love the improved graphics and effects of this series... it's quite eye-catching to me... though I may not have the luxury to enjoy it if I'm playing at a higher difficulty...

Difficulty of the game... the real kick comes in at Lunatic Stage 3... the boss is really tough for me as she's quite fast with her spell attacks... but overall it's managable so far... and if it follows this way... Stage 4 and above will definitely prove to be quite a challenge...

Soundtracks... quite different from previous series... and I kinda like it too... especially Stage 3 boss theme... it's kind of cool and mischievous at the same time...

Reimu as usual is easy to use and her corrupted bomb is... my first reaction to that = O_O ... Sakuya corrupted seems to be a bit more powerful than others when it goes up against single target... am able to clear certain boss spells quite fast going head-on... and finally Marisa corrupted bomb... well... a bit OP...?

A bit surprised to see Cirno come back as a Stage 1 mid-boss... well probably her appearance has been long overdued... Stage 1 boss looks normal to me... and Stage 2... O_O ... detached head attacks...!!! Stage 3 boss... Werewolf... *shriek ...

Looking forward to the full version...!

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on May 27, 2013, 03:47:17 am
I'm surprised that this time there's almost no subtle hint of how the plot will move forward.  We just know that the three stage bosses were somewhat calm youkai who turned violent, and although they all seemed to act as if they were doing that on their own will, it was too unnatural to be a coincidence.

Mmm... I can't even think of a proper place stage 4 would take place at, or what a big baddie would be doing to turn peaceful youkai aggressive.  I had an idea it would be because they all saw their reflections on the water and that somehow did that to them.  But Kagerou wouldn't apply to this since she's in the bamboo forest.

Any theories anyone?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 27, 2013, 03:50:07 am
I really wish I would buy this demo, but I cannot buy anything online. I wish I would download it, but I don't want to enforce piracy. unless there is a official download to it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Dark Kitsune on May 27, 2013, 03:53:33 am
I've found that when using Sakuya (Corrupt), if you switch between focused and unfocused every second or two, it seems to do more damage. Kind of an interesting gimmick, not sure if it's intentional.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on May 27, 2013, 05:05:49 am
"I'm pretty good at impersonating monsters! 'When thar's a full moon, me turns into a wolf, raaawwr!'"
I'm starting to think Sakuya might be a little... special. >_>

This has been pretty awesome all around so far. The new characters are loads of fun. The simplified mechanics are very welcomed after having to chase after UFOs and spirits for extra lives and bombs - though I'm still a bit unclear on a few things. To boot, this may be the Touhou game with the best shot types and effects yet ("Flamethrower". All debates on this subject have been permanently settled.) The music didn't quite strike me as very outstanding at first but after a few runs through the game it has really started to grow on me. Really, if I had anything to complain about so far it's that it can feel a bit on the easy side at times... Kagerou excluded. This was worth the wait.

Speaking of which, isn't Kagerou the first Touhou character with an official "voice"? Granted she doesn't technically talk but, still... :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on May 27, 2013, 05:09:41 am
I've found that when using Sakuya (Corrupt), if you switch between focused and unfocused every second or two, it seems to do more damage. Kind of an interesting gimmick, not sure if it's intentional.
That reminds me Imperishable Night, in which you could do the same with Alice and Marisa to increase the damage output.


Dammit, the werewolf is slapping my shit so hard I don't even. She's harder than Orin. I couldn't do ANY of the spells, and the non-spells wall me after one or two waves.
To be honest, Orin was much harder. You just need to figure the spellcards of Kagerou out, her last spell involves quite some movement.


Also, I'd say Kagerou will be the extra stage midboss because of... (spoiler ahead)
"Kagerou Imaizumi's theme.

I tried giving it a midboss-ish feeling.
 Ehh, although it's stage 3.

By the way, since this full moon is real, she can transform too." -Quote from Touhouwiki.net


Full moon? Transformation? That should give everyone who played IN an instant flashback to Keine.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on May 27, 2013, 05:16:15 am
@Mayson: So just because ZUN did this once, you think he'll do it again in this different game? Interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 27, 2013, 05:27:55 am
I recorded a demonstration video to show how dumb the game is right now. Hopefully ZUN will apply the necessary changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buAxFMJ4dZc

I sincerely hope ZUN will fix these things for you in the full version.

EDIT: Also, Orin got a "voice" in SA, so this is actually the second time it's happened.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on May 27, 2013, 06:00:51 am
I recorded a demonstration video to show how dumb the game is right now. Hopefully ZUN will apply the necessary changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buAxFMJ4dZc
:(

Please ZUN. All you need is a penalty for bombing and 99% of your problems disappear.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on May 27, 2013, 06:08:54 am
@Mayson: So just because ZUN did this once, you think he'll do it again in this different game? Interesting.
Just a speculation in reaction to Amaterasus comment regarding Cirno as extra midboss.  :V Also, wouldn't be the first time. Zun did pull it in UFO with Kogasa too after all.

Regarding the comments on the difficulty: Don't forget that the difficulty level always sharply increases at stage 4, it has been like that since the Windows games essentially. So no point in judging the game as too easy before it even releases.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on May 27, 2013, 06:31:33 am
EDIT: Also, Orin got a "voice" in SA, so this is actually the second time it's happened.
Oh hey, that's right! Forgot about her, my bad.

...Kagerou's still awesome though. :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Polaris on May 27, 2013, 06:36:44 am
Also, I'd say Kagerou will be the extra stage midboss because of... (spoiler ahead)
"Kagerou Imaizumi's theme.

I tried giving it a midboss-ish feeling.
 Ehh, although it's stage 3.

By the way, since this full moon is real, she can transform too." -Quote from Touhouwiki.net


Full moon? Transformation? That should give everyone who played IN an instant flashback to Keine.

It's already the night of the full moon in stage 3, and she already transforms in stage 3, so there really isn't any reason for her to come back in the extra stage.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on May 27, 2013, 06:38:21 am
It's already the night of the full moon in stage 3, and she already transforms in stage 3, so there really isn't any reason for her to come back in the extra stage.
Actually, you're right.  :blush:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 07:32:58 am
I recorded a demonstration video to show how dumb the game is right now. Hopefully ZUN will apply the necessary changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buAxFMJ4dZc
:(

Please ZUN. All you need is a penalty for bombing and 99% of your problems disappear.
No.

The simple fix to this is for the bomb to stop canceling bullets. It can keep churning out power items, but every bullet that hits it should go right through it. Also, if it the bomb itself does some good damage to enemies / bosses, it should stop doing so. The point of using the bomb should be for the resources, after careful planning. (And, well, PoC. Shucks.)

There's also a fix to the bomb -> gain "PoC" thing. Just make it so you actually have to be above the PoC for bonuses to take effect. =.= Bombs can still auto-collect but you'll just get no bonuses from it because you're not at the top of the screen.

Also RE: this.
Dammit, the werewolf is slapping my shit so hard I don't even. She's harder than Orin. I couldn't do ANY of the spells, and the non-spells wall me after one or two waves.
Don't know how she compares to Orin or Shou, but she's certainly the hardest Stage 3 boss in the series. :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2013, 07:54:36 am
It still feels like we're visiting old locations to kick these Youkai girl's asses and try to hunt down the culprit where she might be hiding.
- Misty lake
- < cannot identify stage 2 proper, road to human village? >
- Mana leaking bamboo forest

They seem to be more outside locations where these rebelling youkai might be hiding/causing trouble. Also by going through the stages, I would almost say we visited, EoSD location, PCB location and a IN location so far. Would next stages be a remote location from MoF, SA or UFO?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hatateru on May 27, 2013, 08:01:21 am
I would almost say we visited, EoSD location, PCB location and a IN location so far. Would next stages be a remote location from MoF, SA or UFO?

I like where this is going
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Heian_Alien on May 27, 2013, 09:05:49 am
This game is better than I had expected. The characters have a new feeling to them without being out of place.(like Kokoro in a certain other game).
The music has taken a turn for the better, although it seems pretty hard to arrange. It's not just a melody or two anymore. It feels more complex now and is less catchy as a result.
The stages feel a bit on the easy side compared to other Lunatics, probably due to the resource gathering gimmick. The bosses are hard, especially Kagerou. Is her midboss spell even possible?!
Still,Rokurowhatsisname is not at Kogasa's level.

Do I seriously die to Cirno midboss spell now?
Is the Stage 1 boss actually at least threatening?
In my 2hu? :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on May 27, 2013, 09:17:50 am
Geez I'm dumb.  I've said previously stage 3 had no source of reflection but then I remembered the moon was being shown on the damn ground.  That makes every stage so far have a reflecting surface, I wonder if that has to do with the bosses' violence.  It also relates to the whole reverse/inverted/mirrored theme the game seems to have.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 09:31:02 am
The music has taken a turn for the better, although it seems pretty hard to arrange. It's not just a melody or two anymore. It feels more complex now and is less catchy as a result.
Yep, bingo, though I'm not sure about them being less catchy. :V I think arranges will just try to simplify things or work with one / two base tunes. I already have a good idea for a piano arrangement of Kagerou's theme, would you believe it?
The stages feel a bit on the easy side compared to other Lunatics, probably due to the resource gathering gimmick. The bosses are hard, especially Kagerou. Is her midboss spell even possible?!
The stages are really fun because PoC'ing is really risky and the constant stream of enemies is just great. Not very hard if you're ignoring the gimmick, yeah. As for the midboss spell... I wish I'd have been able to save that replay. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14499.msg979256.html#msg979256)
Do I seriously die to Cirno midboss spell now?
Is the Stage 1 boss actually at least threatening?
In my 2hu? :V
Blame the jellybeans. It's legitimately kind of challenging. As for the stage 1 boss... best stage 1 boss in the series. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2013, 09:31:35 am
There is no reflection in stage 2 though. And water is naturally to be known reflective. So far there hasn't been any hints of mirrors or anything. Unless I am missing things.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 09:37:22 am
I think the whole thing with mirrors is that the two routes (A and B) are "mirror" routes, where the character is much more violent in A, the violent mirror of the character. Ties up well with Roukan's theory.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Piranha on May 27, 2013, 09:44:01 am
Blame the jellybeans. It's legitimately kind of challenging. As for the stage 1 boss... best stage 1 boss in the series. :V

Aside from the fact I REALLY like her design and the new ZUN-style in this game: the boss fight itself is loads of fun. I love timing out the first spell (or capturing it at the very last second), because it grows stronger with every wave.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Flan27 on May 27, 2013, 10:10:53 am
I'd say that Wakasagihime is my favorite character so far.  I think it was the Dept. Heaven series that turned me on to mermaids.  By the way, the youkai in this game are indeed very youkai-ish.  I can see where Zun is coming from with his "Neo-Retro" thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on May 27, 2013, 10:23:42 am
Not only that but y'know, there's a huge mirror on the title screen.  That, and all times the screen's colors get inverted.   And yeah, the characters are oddly more violent when using their possessed weapons.  Maybe the plot will have to do with vengeful spirits again?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: GuppyForce on May 27, 2013, 10:31:20 am
I take back everything I said about the soundtrack being dissapointing. Really starting to like most of the tracks now. It's not godly, but it's an overall pretty good soundtrack.

And the danmaku gets a lot more interesting in Hard Mode than normal, and while gameplay videos of lunatic (and what I've gotten to) seem promising.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2013, 11:11:16 am
I think I am so confused in facts from both game articles and maintenance that I indeed forgot the huge green mirror in the opening screen. How silly of me.

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 11:12:48 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsTfxNkGOzg
Some of the things I talked about earlier. I'm loving these stages.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on May 27, 2013, 01:03:52 pm
Oh yess!  I've actually been so eager to see score runs of DDC, thanks a lot for that BT!  I always thought people would bomb more considering the huge number of power points you can get though.  They musn't give as much as graze I guess.

And hey Helepolis, it happens!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 01:06:23 pm
Sorry to let you down but that's not what you should be expecting. Look at the scoring thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14816.0.html) if you want some real strats - I was just playing around with graze. (though Stage 1 shouldn't be bomb-happy anyway)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Malyszeq on May 27, 2013, 01:09:30 pm
Someone mentioned Amanojaku here. that was one of my theories concernign the culprit of Hopeless Masquerade, but it can fit in this story so much better, than there ( ties with Bishamonten were a bit of misdirection in that case). I really hope that this time we will se one in action - I guess manipulation of behaviour/desires/will would be it's specialty. And it woudl probabbly be an oni  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: GuardianTempest on May 27, 2013, 01:24:39 pm
Listening to the music, it seems that ZUN is focusing on cymbals and other 'clashing' sounds...could there be a connection?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sparen on May 27, 2013, 01:46:42 pm
Listening to the music, it seems that ZUN is focusing on cymbals and other 'clashing' sounds...could there be a connection?

Perhaps. This game is pretty vicious in both player attacks and music. I mean, COME ON. Corrupt Reimu's bomb makes Reimu look like Flandre Scarlet on a rampage.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2013, 02:20:09 pm
If I have to assume the translations on the wiki for the demo prologue is to be true, then  I still don't see a relation to the mirror being shown on the opening screen. Either it is meant to show a symbolic appearance of "reflect upon your actions" or any sense.

The dialogues from Sakuya and Reimu express worry about their weapons. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Double_Dealing_Character/Story/Sakuya_A%27s_Scenario
Code: [Select]
Sakuya A
今日は何かこのナイフが I can't seem to hold back
抑えきれなくて…… this knife today...

Reimu A
このお祓い棒のことも I want to know about this
気になるしな purification rod, too.

Marisa seems to be heavily under the effect as she doesn't make any sense. As Roukan pointed out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14817.msg978738.html#msg978738). The weapons are having bad influence on the girls. It no longer needs to be a speculation if the dialogue translations are true. Not to mention we can clearly see Reimu going from questionable in Stage 1 to quite aggressive in Stage 3.  Marisa seems to be lost already from stage 3. Sakuya is swaying between it seems.

I like the story plot so far in ZUN's prologue. A sinister and devious plot this time has been set up. And someone already mentioned if the girls might have to beat each other up like in IN. That would make a blast if such thing occurred.

Now I am getting more and more hyped for the full version. Agh.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 27, 2013, 02:30:42 pm
Marisa does seem to be fighting the possession a little in her dialogue.
Code: [Select]
Marisa A/Possessed
I'm going to give you a full-body afro,
(Thinking)
I probably don't have to go that far...
or... do I?

She's already questioning it, but before that it seems she's completely under the spell of the possessed weapon. Hmm... of course, the black smoke has already been mentioned, so that's probably involved. I also think all three are trying to fight it, but it seems like they aren't succeeding. The only way for them to do that is to leave the weapons behind.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 27, 2013, 02:32:30 pm
(Disclaimer: The following dissertation comes from someone that has yet to see Stage 1 in action.)

So I've been thinking about the issue of Cirno's sprite, and how some people have taken issue with it, but have been unable to properly articulate why. I admit that (a) I found myself disliking it when I first saw it as well, and (b) I couldn't properly articulate to  myself why I disliked it either. After spending some time dwelling on it, I think I've realized what the problem is.

One of the many little touches I've been a huge fan of in these games is the design and animations of the boss sprites. In addition to things like waving arms, flapping wings, and wiggling legs, the sprites were routinely designed in such a way where you actually felt like you were squaring off against another person in a danmaku battle. Even in still images, their poses suggested obvious ways in which the sprites would animate to suggest movement around the battlefield (be it swift movement or lazy drifting), as well as obvious ways in which the sprite could attack with bullets, usually by having arms in various ready-to-fire positions that we've all grown accustomed to through Dragon Ball Z and countless other shounen franchises where people shoot energy from their limbs.

I look at the current Cirno sprite and see neither of these things. Back in EoSD and PCB, she would be leaning one way or the other, where a wing-flapping animation combined with drifting in the direction she was leaning made sense as a portrayal of movement, and she'd have one or both of her hands out a little in a way that attacking made sense. There is no obvious outlet for movement animation or attacking animation. Her attempt at perfect vertical symmetry has left both her body and her legs in an incredibly awkward position if she suddenly wants to move laterally, and having her arms akimbo does not lend itself to any sort of idea of where the bullets she shoots are coming from. Frankly, she looks superimposed on the screen, like you could take your cursor, hold-click her, and drag her across the screen like an application window with pose never changing and that's her movement animation. I honestly look at her and see nothing to suggest even how her pose would easily change to accommodate the needs to move and shoot.

Now, again, I have yet to see Stage 1 in action, so maybe there is a proper animation given to her. But just from looking at the stills that have been provided, I can't fathom what that proper animation could possibly be.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2013, 02:45:37 pm
Well in all fairness, you people are complaining about ZUN's Cirno sprite while I've seen nobody complaining about Dark Spark or the Red Magic Circle behind the boss during fights. Because that is just being lazy. At least he took the effort of designing or attempting a new Cirno sprite. As a danmakufu scripter I take more note to the overall animation and graphics than just bitching about 1 midboss.

Because Dark Spark is just extremely lazy and the red magic circle looks very off with the X/Y flipping/movement.

Nothing personal to you Kilga, this is just a general thing. If you're going to bitch at ZUN's work, at least do it fair and judge the entire picture. But I guess people just want to see what they want to see. If you ask me, I find the wolf head for 3rd boss pretty dull as well in terms of animation. So yea. Where do we start?

On the subject of sprite/animation. Let us not forget Tewi from Imperishable Night. She has exactly 4 sprite animations. 1 for idle ( not even an animation range ) and 3 for the movement left/right where she leans. ZUN didn't bother updating this in PoFV even.

Just my concern.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Genso on May 27, 2013, 02:47:12 pm
The plot for DDC kinda reminds me of the vampire incident in PMiSS. I wonder if the scale of this incident will be something like that.

Perhaps. This game is pretty vicious in both player attacks and music. I mean, COME ON. Corrupt Reimu's bomb makes Reimu look like Flandre Scarlet on a rampage.

And what's wrong with that? Though I do admit that Marisa's and Sakuya's A dialogue are pretty violent. Though nothing wrong with rampaging a bit.  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 27, 2013, 02:48:41 pm
Girls are now worshipping Khorne and are slaughtering.

Please wait warmly until it is ready.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on May 27, 2013, 02:50:21 pm
Now I am getting more and more hyped for the full version. Agh.
Has a release date been confirmed?

Quote
The stages are really fun because PoC'ing is really risky and the constant stream of enemies is just great.
I thought the same, but I'm also skeptical about the later stages because you can only get so dense before PoC-ing becomes impossible.
Quote
I already have a good idea for a piano arrangement of Kagerou's theme, would you believe it?
As long as you get rid of the intro and unfuck the chorus
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hatateru on May 27, 2013, 02:52:43 pm
Has a release date been confirmed?

I think it's on the 12th of August if I'm not mistaken. They say this year the sale of Touhou and Touhou related stuff gets pushed to the third day.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 27, 2013, 02:53:00 pm
Helepolis: I'm only commenting on what I've seen. I have yet to see Dark Spark or the other things you mentioned, and there hasn't been nearly the hullabaloo about those things as there has been about Cirno's sprite. I figured I would offer my thoughts (with the given disclaimer) since it seemed like no one else had been able to offer anything similar yet. (I'm also admittedly curious to see wha Sir Amat has to say in response, since he's good at thinking through his opinions.)

EDIT: Also, the complaining-about-lazy-bomb-animations ship sailed a long time ago with MoF.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on May 27, 2013, 02:59:05 pm
I think it's on the 12th of August if I'm not mistaken. They say this year the sale of Touhou and Touhou related stuff gets pushed to the third day.
That's great to hear; it's a lot earlier than I expected.

complaining-about-lazy-bomb-animations
MoF.
it's like people never played the 30 games before MoF or something
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 27, 2013, 02:59:26 pm
Just wondering, because I've seen Dark Spark already, but how is it lazy? Also, I don't really mind the new spell circle that much. It's unnecessary, sure, but I have no problems with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2013, 03:02:43 pm
I put a bloody screenshot in my article :V

You people! YOU PEOPLE! I shall use this corrupted Gungnir and... AND!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 27, 2013, 03:03:58 pm
Chill out, I saw it. So it's just a black version of Master Spark. So? I DON'T CARE. It blows shit up either way. I don't really care what it looks like either way. >.>
EDIT: Also, you might want to put down that Gungnir. No one wants to get hurt by a corrupted weapon, especially not me. ^^;
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 27, 2013, 03:05:26 pm
Hey, some of us don't like reading summary articles about games we haven't played yet. :<
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 27, 2013, 03:05:55 pm
Dark Spark is sufficiently metal.

ALLITERATOR APPROVES.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on May 27, 2013, 03:06:54 pm
Well in all fairness, you people are complaining about ZUN's Cirno sprite while I've seen nobody complaining about Dark Spark or the Red Magic Circle behind the boss during fights. Because that is just being lazy. At least he took the effort of designing or attempting a new Cirno sprite. As a danmakufu scripter I take more note to the overall animation and graphics than just bitching about 1 midboss.

Because Dark Spark is just extremely lazy and the red magic circle looks very off with the X/Y flipping/movement.

Nothing personal to you Kilga, this is just a general thing. If you're going to bitch at ZUN's work, at least do it fair and judge the entire picture. But I guess people just want to see what they want to see. If you ask me, I find the wolf head for 3rd boss pretty dull as well in terms of animation. So yea. Where do we start?

On the subject of sprite/animation. Let us not forget Tewi from Imperishable Night. She has exactly 4 sprite animations. 1 for idle ( not even an animation range ) and 3 for the movement left/right where she leans. ZUN didn't bother updating this in PoFV even.

Just my concern.
You seem to confuse a lack of quality for a lack of effort. Of course Dark Spark and the spell circle didn't take a lot of effort, but they look (as) appealing (as ever). On the other hand he might have put (much) more effort into Cirno's sprite, but many people find the outcome rather subpar. And people definitely have the right to think that without minding the reused elements. Not even saying that I agree (or disagree) with them, but yeah!
She does look better than IN Tewi though who just was dorky and fat and urgh
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 27, 2013, 03:08:13 pm
Cirno was onscreen for less than 30 seconds during my first playthrough.

Her new sprite might be an eyesore but at least it doesn't stick around for long.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on May 27, 2013, 03:10:40 pm
Dark Spark is sufficiently metal.
2EDGY

What's the big deal with it anyway? It looks exactly the same as every spark before it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2013, 03:10:57 pm
Dark Spark looks appealing but for it's name it should've done slightly more imo. But again yea this is just taste and opinions. I am sorry but the red magic circle is definitely not appealing at all to me. I'll let the dark spark for myself slip but the red magic circle is just unforgivable. It isn't even the reuse, it is just added X/Y rotation and toned down speed of Z rotation. At least he did colour altering for Dark Spark.  :V

Hey, some of us don't like reading summary articles about games we haven't played yet. :<
Well get to it then, you fabulous cape'd Taoist.

/me tosses Gungnirs around
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 03:22:46 pm
Cirno has animation for moving horizontally. Doesn't help her when she's spewing bullets in place though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: wailofthebanshee on May 27, 2013, 03:23:00 pm
Second boss's floating heads are adorable :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 27, 2013, 03:26:55 pm
I love the music in this game. Even the stage 1 boss music despite how much I think rock and anything related to it is garbage. I never thought I would like a touhou rock song besides Lunar Clock ~ Luna Dial. And Stage 3's boss music sounds a-lot like Heian Alien.

All aboard the hype train! Cho! Cho!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on May 27, 2013, 03:45:37 pm
(Danbo link) That's pretty much the mental image I got when I read that line in Marisa's B scenario (http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1427676)

Also "Wouldn't she have been stronger if she completely turned into a fish". Marisa knows what's up   :smug:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 04:07:59 pm
I kept thinking about this game throughout the day, and the first thing I did when I get home was fire it up. I honestly haven't played a Touhou game this addictive since IN.

For those of you concerned that PoC milking is going to get harder in later stages, you're probably right. But a sub-par player like myself was about to end Stage 3 with like 5 or 6 lives, so, I imagine some of you more skilled players could begin Stage 4 with even more than that. Which should help. Bear in mind, though, that it seems that losing 1 life = losing 2 bombs, which I reckon was done to balance things out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on May 27, 2013, 04:22:29 pm
So I'm not the only one who thinks all the bombs do really little damage, right?

Not that that's a bad thing. Dark Spark is also the exception, giving MarisaA an edge with an actual strong bomb.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: wailofthebanshee on May 27, 2013, 04:45:17 pm
I haven't tried them all yet, but MarisaB's bomb lasts like 10 seconds. It's p ridiculous.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 05:23:20 pm
Yeah I have no idea what you're talking about, Serela.  Reimu A's bomb lasts an eternity, Sakuya A's bomb does that "cherry border" thing, and you could clean your bathroom in the time it takes Marisa A's bomb to finish.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 27, 2013, 05:44:12 pm
Plus ReimuA's bomb is awesome. As well as her shottype. In fact I like all of the corrupted shottypes. I do wonder how the game will balance that out with the uncorrupted shottypes, though...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 05:51:21 pm
Yeah, Reimu A's bomb is hilarious. It's like she's got a mop and is just WHAP WHAP WHAP WHAP WHAP. Fed up of housecleaning!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yonowaaru on May 27, 2013, 06:02:26 pm
Am I the only one who immediately thought of Reimu as a grim reaper?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 06:16:39 pm
Plus ReimuA's bomb is awesome. As well as her shottype. In fact I like all of the corrupted shottypes. I do wonder how the game will balance that out with the uncorrupted shottypes, though...
They're already balanced out. Or, rather, it's not like the corrupted shottypes are better than the others or anything.
I'm actually not feeling enough difference between the shottypes. Maybe it'll come on its own.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 06:32:07 pm
Ugh this input lag is killing me! I've played with every possible configuration and gotten to the point where the game "feels" like it's playing at the normal speed, and yet the lowest slowdown rate I can get is 9%.

This wouldn't make any difference to me normally - I mean, if the game looks and feels as though it's running 60FPS, that's usually good enough for me - but it just so happens that I have developed a new-found interest in score runs, thanks to this game, and would love to take a shot at the High Score board. But the slowdown rate cap there is a very reasonable 5%. So looks like I'll be sitting that one out until there's either a patch for the input lag, or I find some other solution.

In the meantime, I'm working on ending Stage 3 with as massive a stock of lives and bombs as I can muster. If the first three stages are any indication, I have a feeling that the rest of the game is going to be like the first ten minutes of Saving Private Ryan.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 27, 2013, 06:52:27 pm
Wow. After dealing with Kagerou, a bad trauma resurfaced from my arcade rat days of getting owned by DarkStalkers' Jon Talbain/Gallon. Of course, by the time Night Warriors hit the locale arcades, I was getting used to the howls.

I can already see the Kagerou/Gallon fanarts on the horizon.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 27, 2013, 06:58:05 pm
By the way... I did some research on the kanjis of the characters, and found out their meanings somewhat (Not sure if it was posted before already, so, I'm sorry if it was)

赤蛮奇 -- Sekibanki

赤 (red/crimson/scarlet)
蛮 (barbarian/savage/brutal)
奇 (bizarre/strange)

So... I suppose her name altogether means something like "Bizarre crimson savage"

-------------------------

今泉 -- Imaizumi
今 = ima (present time/current time) for me the meaning of this seems a little vague
泉 = izumi (fountain)

影狼 -- Kagerou
影 = Kage (Shadow) but can also mean "light from the moon"
狼 = Kanji for wolf/Canis lupus

But I just don't know how to put all of this together on a single meaning.  Maybe "Moonlight Wolf from the fountain of the present" ?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 07:33:10 pm
"Moonlight wolf of the modern fountain" maybe? Nah, that's too clumsy. I wonder ..

Although it is fun to know what my family name would be in Japanese!

By the by, I'm not seeing any English patch yet (and nope, not using that independent one that involves a .js file ....), which has given me the amusing activity of reading the scenarios on the wiki. As has been said, Corrupted and Normal girls have totally different dialogue, and the effect is pretty funny. Sakuya B is like "Oh my, dear youkai, would you be ever so kind as to not make too much of a racket? Thank you." while Sakuya A's all "AHHH BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!"
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on May 27, 2013, 07:39:35 pm
lol trying to find meaning in touhou names from their kanji
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sanger Zonvolt on May 27, 2013, 07:42:12 pm
The demo just crashes on me as soon as I open it, dunno what I should do.  :wat:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 27, 2013, 07:47:05 pm
Rename the folder it's in or run it through applocale.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 27, 2013, 07:47:37 pm
The demo just crashes on me as soon as I open it, dunno what I should do.  :wat:

Remove the japanese characters from the game's folder. It happened with me as well, but after doing that I got the issue fixed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sanger Zonvolt on May 27, 2013, 07:54:43 pm
It worked, thank you saints.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on May 27, 2013, 09:18:57 pm
By the by, I'm not seeing any English patch yet (and nope, not using that independent one that involves a .js file ....)
(http://s7.postimg.org/6hcj5t749/Image1.png)

The patch is legit. It doesn't modify the exe directly and reapplies its modifications on the fly everytime the game is run through a few batch files and scripts, which is why it's so weirdly set up.

It's just not a very well-polished translation. :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 09:22:11 pm
I admit I'm maybe being unreasonably sceptical, but I'm gonna wait on good ol' Gensokyo.org for English patcherination.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on May 27, 2013, 09:28:00 pm
I only have one important question:

Is there fanart of Sekibanki in a Hamlet pose out there yet? :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 09:30:10 pm
By "Hamlet pose" I assume you mean the bit when Hamlet laments to Horatio about Yorick?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 27, 2013, 09:40:57 pm
Tch, you guys made me read the rest of the dialogue from the wiki.

Sekibanki: "I can't allow someone to look at me and not being scared."
Marisa: "No, you did surprise me there when your head took off."
Sekibanki: "Do you want to see me do that again?"
*BEGIN FIGHT*

...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: PhantomSong on May 27, 2013, 09:53:10 pm
I find Sekibanki so creepy...
Me: PUT YOU DAMN HEAD BACK ON!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: _cf on May 27, 2013, 09:59:28 pm
Regarding the boss themes, they're all very, uh... haunted-house-ish. I keep trying to figure which kind of sound they resemble, and this is the best I could remember (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHgsVB51lGo). It helps that this is the old band of the guy who does the scores for Tim Burton movies.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: M M on May 27, 2013, 10:37:39 pm
Liking it so far, it really feels like a mix of new and old. The only thing that disappointed me is the shooting being like TD (focusing changes your bullets).

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 10:39:35 pm
the shooting being like TD (focusing changes your bullets).

Imperishable Night would like to have a word with you.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 27, 2013, 10:46:47 pm
Please don't put Sekibanki on a demon horse. Please.

Seeing the Disney adaption of the Headless Horseman still terrifies me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gradius on May 27, 2013, 11:19:48 pm
Please don't put Sekibanki on a demon horse. Please.

Seeing the Disney adaption of the Headless Horseman still terrifies me.

You have just given them the idea...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 27, 2013, 11:38:34 pm
You have just given them the idea...

I-- ah, kinda walked into that one, didn't I?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on May 27, 2013, 11:44:53 pm
DRAKE DELIVERS

(http://i.imgur.com/w87tZNm.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2013, 11:47:36 pm
I know how Marisa feels. The voices often tell me to burn things, too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 27, 2013, 11:51:37 pm
DRAKE DELIVERS

(http://i.imgur.com/GOhgoFw.jpg?2)

Classic. ^^;
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gray21oh on May 27, 2013, 11:53:29 pm
I hate to drag on something I said before, but I think the current tracks grew on me... Except for Wagasamihime's theme, kinda sounds unordered to me.
I know how Marisa feels. The voices often tell me to burn things, too.
Do they tell you to laser things also?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kosachi on May 28, 2013, 12:07:22 am
DRAKE DELIVERS

(http://i.imgur.com/GOhgoFw.jpg?2)
At least Yorick stayed dead   :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on May 28, 2013, 12:28:54 am
DRAKE DELIVERS

(http://i.imgur.com/GOhgoFw.jpg?2)

This is hilarious.  And loved the touch of the cursed Hakkero telling Marisa to burn her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 28, 2013, 12:30:41 am
DRAKE DELIVERS

(http://i.imgur.com/GOhgoFw.jpg?2)

Can I hug you?

Also, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow maybe?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 28, 2013, 12:37:08 am
Yep. The Legend of the Cute Roku--thingy Who Looks like Orin.

Be afraid, people.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 28, 2013, 01:11:08 am
Yep. The Legend of the Cute Roku--thingy Who Looks like Orin.

Be afraid, people.

Maybe she could trick Youmu into thinking she was a ghost...

EDIT: I figured out who the culprit is.
Rikako had injected herself with nanomachines back in PoDD, and Marisa/Reimu got infected. Now, it spread everywhere they went, such as the lake, the road to the village/willows, and the forest. She used it to gain control of the youkai and weapons. She dubbed the system "Guns and Daughters of the Scientists."


As for the Extra boss...
And the kappa are in on it too.  They want to sell their weapons to increase fighting and profit for them. War economy and all that.
Therefore, Nitori.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: M M on May 28, 2013, 01:45:08 am
Imperishable Night would like to have a word with you.

You could choose individual characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 28, 2013, 02:02:37 am
Maybe she could trick Youmu into thinking she was a ghost...

EDIT: I figured out who the culprit is.
Rikako had injected herself with nanomachines back in PoDD, and Marisa/Reimu got infected. Now, it spread everywhere they went, such as the lake, the road to the village/willows, and the forest. She used it to gain control of the youkai and weapons. She dubbed the system "Guns and Daughters of the Scientists."


As for the Extra boss...
And the kappa are in on it too.  They want to sell their weapons to increase fighting and profit for them. War economy and all that.
Therefore, Nitori.

Rikako is brilliant. Do not let anyone else tell you otherwise.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: _cf on May 28, 2013, 02:31:47 am
I didn't read the whole thread, but was it mentioned yet that the difficulty tiers in DDC are named after gems? emerald (easy) -> aquamarine (normal) -> ruby (hard) -> the hope diamond (lunatic).

This could be a hint about the story/future bosses.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 28, 2013, 02:40:28 am
I didn't read the whole thread, but was it mentioned yet that the difficulty tiers in DDC are named after gems? emerald (easy) -> aquamarine (normal) -> ruby (hard) -> the hope diamond (lunatic).

This could be a hint about the story/future bosses.

The Wizard of Oz is the final boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aeteas on May 28, 2013, 03:22:57 am
I didn't read the whole thread, but was it mentioned yet that the difficulty tiers in DDC are named after gems? emerald (easy) -> aquamarine (normal) -> ruby (hard) -> the hope diamond (lunatic).

This could be a hint about the story/future bosses.

Now I'm curious as to what extra will be.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 28, 2013, 03:29:46 am
...hm.

Maybe the final boss is... An alchemist? A magician?

Wait! I just realized it! This is some experiment of Patchouli's or Alice's(or both) that has gone wrong, and the reason that Sakuya didn't know is because not even the magician in question knew at first, if she realizes that this is happening at all...

On another note, since we are talking about possessed objects and what not, should one expect Medicine Melancholy to appear in this game? I would surmise her to be a possible midboss, either of Stage 4 or Extra.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 28, 2013, 03:51:28 am
I didn't read the whole thread, but was it mentioned yet that the difficulty tiers in DDC are named after gems? emerald (easy) -> aquamarine (normal) -> ruby (hard) -> the hope diamond (lunatic).

This could be a hint about the story/future bosses.
This acutally reminds me of a Touhou OC I made (in my head). She's a magician who has ability to use different assortment of magic using different types of gemstones. Though I think boss like that would appear as the Extra Boss, as such ability doesn't fit this story as far as we know.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on May 28, 2013, 04:09:08 am
On another note, since we are talking about possessed objects and what not, should one expect Medicine Melancholy to appear in this game? I would surmise her to be a possible midboss, either of Stage 4 or Extra.
Did someone mention a minor interesting character getting some characterization. Sounds fucking awesome. However, I don't see it being a thing. Throwing in a previous character this late in the game seems a bit weird. Still, I'm all for it.

About the gems being mentioned. The only relevance I notice is that the title has those lense flairs all over them, like it's made of precious stones. I don't doubt that it will be relevant though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 28, 2013, 04:20:20 am
Gems?

Hmm. Touhou Super Heroines, maybe? Makes me think of Marvel's Infinity Gauntlet series.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on May 28, 2013, 08:12:16 am
It was mentioned a few times now that shooting bosses milks them for Power-Items but I don't think anyone mentioned that this is one drawback to using the cursed shot types as their focused shots are the only ones that don't make the enemies bleed out power.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on May 28, 2013, 08:21:40 am
It was mentioned a few times now that shooting bosses milks them for Power-Items but I don't think anyone mentioned that this is one drawback to using the cursed shot types as their focused shots are the only ones that don't make the enemies bleed out power.
I thought it was related to being focussed or unfocussed in general. Nice catch. I don't really see why they have that drawback other than story relevance, though. The cursed shot types aren't that much stronger. In case of Marisa the clean shot type is even better.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on May 28, 2013, 08:29:50 am
Has anyone encountered a bug where your character automatically moves to the left side of the screen and stays there?  If that happens, then exiting the game and going to the difficulty selection screen will result in the "cursor" (can't think a better way to describe this...) going to easy mode.

Things return to normal if I exit the game entirely, however.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kosachi on May 28, 2013, 09:57:39 am
Has anyone encountered a bug where your character automatically moves to the left side of the screen and stays there?  If that happens, then exiting the game and going to the difficulty selection screen will result in the "cursor" (can't think a better way to describe this...) going to easy mode.

Things return to normal if I exit the game entirely, however.
I don't think that's a glitch belonging exclusively to DDC as I have experienced this very same glitch in a few of the other games as well. I don't have the slightest idea what causes it though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: wailofthebanshee on May 28, 2013, 12:19:44 pm
The demo just crashes on me as soon as I open it, dunno what I should do.  :wat:
For me it crashes 70% of the time at the end of the first loading screen. The rest of the time it goes through and works just fine...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2013, 12:34:25 pm
I think the input lag that myself and others are experiencing with DDC is not due to the game, but rather to whatever graphics card driver you're using. On my machine, which uses the Nvidia 308 (I think?) driver, I get a slowdown rate of about 9% (or about 53FPS - hardly a noticeable difference at all, but a difference nonetheless). On my room-mate's Windows 7 machine, however, DDC runs at a flawless 60FPS.

So I reckon this means I'll be engaging in the always-fun task of installing different Nvidia drivers to see which one fixes the game for me. If I have to install a whole other OS I'll do it. This is the first time I've been interested in doing score runs, and I'm ready to go back to Linux Mint if that's what it takes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tsalop on May 28, 2013, 12:35:03 pm
I don't think that's a glitch belonging exclusively to DDC as I have experienced this very same glitch in a few of the other games as well. I don't have the slightest idea what causes it though.
Same here... Except for me the direction is not always the left corner.
From my experiences - this seems to happen when I have played the game long (e.g. 2 hours)...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2013, 12:40:24 pm
That sliding-to-one-side-of-the-screen thing is not exclusive to DDC and is rather an input error on the user side. I've seen it posted before regarding earlier games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on May 28, 2013, 01:15:52 pm
okay, this has bothering me for a while. For some reason, random rows and columns or pixels are missing when I play on 640*480. It's always the same rows/columns that don't show up (for example, the 8 in the bomb counter always looks quite similar to a 3, which has been annoying me all the time), as shown here:
(http://i.imgur.com/LlnDxfc.jpg)
does anybody else experience the same problem/know how to fix it? I believe it's there on higher resolutions as well, but not sure on that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on May 28, 2013, 01:43:14 pm
I think the input lag that myself and others are experiencing with DDC is not due to the game, but rather to whatever graphics card driver you're using. On my machine, which uses the Nvidia 308 (I think?) driver, I get a slowdown rate of about 9% (or about 53FPS - hardly a noticeable difference at all, but a difference nonetheless). On my room-mate's Windows 7 machine, however, DDC runs at a flawless 60FPS.

So I reckon this means I'll be engaging in the always-fun task of installing different Nvidia drivers to see which one fixes the game for me. If I have to install a whole other OS I'll do it. This is the first time I've been interested in doing score runs, and I'm ready to go back to Linux Mint if that's what it takes.
I'm using nVidia driver 311.06 and I have the flawless 60 FPS. Try that driver if you can find it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Piranha on May 28, 2013, 02:00:00 pm
The version 314.22 works for me, too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2013, 03:25:04 pm
I'm using nVidia driver 311.06 and I have the flawless 60 FPS. Try that driver if you can find it.
The version 314.22 works for me, too.
Thanks, guys. Finding the drivers isn't a problem - I can get them from the Nvidia site itself - it's the whole process of going into console, installing a new driver, and praying to the Hakurei God that I didn't utterly bork my graphics in the process.

Switching graphics drivers in Mint/Ubuntu is relatively painless. In Crunchbang - which is pretty much Debian - the process is a bit more involved.

Knowing which drivers actually work is a huge help for me, though, so I appreciate the input.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 28, 2013, 04:42:01 pm
I know how Marisa feels. The voices often tell me to burn things, too.

I CAN FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME.

IT IS A GOOD PAIN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2013, 04:52:27 pm
Well, turns out neither of those drivers are available for Linux. I forgot about that one little snag - Nvidia has a separate dev branch for different OS's.

SO! Any Linux users out there, who are able to run DDC at 60FPS, tell me: what driver are you using?

Also going to pose this question over in HME.

I CAN FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME.

IT IS A GOOD PAIN.
Had to Google the reference, feeling old now. :colonveeplusalpha:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gruidae on May 28, 2013, 04:52:49 pm
Guys, I don't know if it's been mentioned yet but Sakuya's A bomb is actually triggered.

First you activate it, then during a certain amount of time if you get hit by a bullet the shield detonates kinda like a Cherry Border and wipes off all bullets on screen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2013, 04:58:04 pm
That was mentioned, and it's one of the reasons why I lovelovelove Sakuya A.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 28, 2013, 05:11:44 pm
Here are my specs (http://speccy.piriform.com/results/Z4agopEJkcAsyTlVmHmkhOo)

I can run the game at fixed 60fps on any resolution, even when the input latency is set to "auto"

However... when I record with Fraps, the game drops to around 56~57fps, and keeps at it (including on 640x480). The only way to solve this is changing the input latency to "fast" through config-exe. This makes me able to record at fixed 60fps regardless of the resolution, however, it occasionally gives me a few lag-spikes as side effect.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2013, 05:14:00 pm
Remind me again: is the input latency the top or the bottom option in custom.exe?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 28, 2013, 05:41:35 pm
Remind me again: is the input latency the top or the bottom option in custom.exe?

(http://i.imgur.com/8mm9r7H.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on May 28, 2013, 06:23:28 pm
I CAN FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME.

IT IS A GOOD PAIN.
Oh god, I want her to try and talk to the final boss with this being the only thing she can say. Final boss: "Ok, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere, lets just fight".
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2013, 06:44:19 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/8mm9r7H.png)
I thank ye.

SOLUTION ACHIEVED!

I'm able to get the game to run at 60FPS. Here is the magical, three-pronged solution:

1. 1/2 framerate.
2. High input latency.
3. Run game in 640x480, windowed mode period. Full screen or windowed, it's a 0% slowdown.

NB: If you're running Linux, the nvidia 304.88 driver works just fine.

I think the input lag may actually be due to using 960x720. Can anyone else confirm this?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on May 28, 2013, 08:29:34 pm
It was mentioned a few times now that shooting bosses milks them for Power-Items but I don't think anyone mentioned that this is one drawback to using the cursed shot types as their focused shots are the only ones that don't make the enemies bleed out power.

Uh, actually neither Reimu or Sakuya's clean focused shots bleed power. Only Marisa's does iirc.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Greatest Dog on May 28, 2013, 08:45:19 pm
Uh, actually neither Reimu or Sakuya's clean focused shots bleed power. Only Marisa's does iirc.

I just tried it, and yeah, MarisaB is the only one to get power while focused.
If there's any comparisons I can make to these characters, it seems like
ReimuA = MoF MarisaC/IN Remilia in terms of covering attack area
ReimuB = Ten Desires Reimu (although not as potent as other post-MoF Needle Reimus)
MarisaA = The bomb type. You don't use it for the shot, you use the bombs and you use them liberally.
MarisaB = The new post-MoF Needle Reimu in terms of shot damage
SakuyaA = ... PCB SakuyaA, except actually capable of damage
SakuyaB = PCB ReimuB, though her focused shot is very narrow.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Stuffman on May 28, 2013, 09:39:59 pm
Another gimmick of Sakuya B worth noting is the "spearhead" of shots she gains at Power 2.00 and 4.00, which give her a somewhat noticeable damage increase if they're hitting. So she does more damage in "melee" range. It's generally too dangerous to use against bosses, but it rips big fairies apart pretty quickly so you can keep hitting the POC.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: kinoko on May 29, 2013, 03:14:01 am
How does the POC bonus work?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 29, 2013, 03:17:54 am
How does the POC bonus work?

20-59 point/power items = bomb slice
60+ = life slice
Every 5th slice is a life slice, I think. Dunno if it counts life slices as well or just bomb slices for this.

Also, the more points you get, the higher the multiplier bonus is.
60+ =2x
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 29, 2013, 03:18:49 am
How does the POC bonus work?

Collect enough point and power items you gain bonus which is multiplied depending on how much you collected. Similar to the blue UFOs in Touhou 12.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Soul Devour on May 29, 2013, 03:20:00 am
Alright, I've played around with every character, read up the story for each part and I think I'm ready to say my impressions.

I think, Marisa B bomb abuse aside, this has the makings of a very solid touhou game and could be a high tier one, depending on the later stages. The music is good most of the time and great occasionally so far, the gameplay is pretty tight and enjoyable, and the bosses and their patterns are pretty fun and challenging.

(All of the below are simply my own opinion, based off of my own experiences)

Reimu A: Decent shot type. The focused mode with the auto-homing stick is pretty neat and adds an extra bit of damage to bosses and a good chunk of damage to stage mobs. Unfocused charms are slow but pretty reliable. The bomb is kinda...eh.
Reimu B: Narrow range, but simple. Unfocused seems the same, focused are persuasion needles. I personally don't mind the narrow range and the damage they do is good enough for me. Awesome bomb, you can't beat Fantasy Seal or Heaven, whichever it is.
Marisa A: Love it. Flamethrower has a good range and does good damage. Unfocused lasers go pew pew. Dark Spark is amazing.
Marisa B: (Still) Love it. AoE bombs are a good thing and splash damage never hurts for stage enemies. Not as great for bosses, but eh, whatever. More lasers pew pew. Her bomb is broken, but it's still really a neat concept, like a modified Reimu B bomb from SA to collect power items instead of deal additional damage.
Sakuya A: The best shot type. Why is that? Unfocused damage is kinda blah, but the focused attack shines. Homing knives that slow the damage AND explode for splash damage? Yes please. SA Marisa C bomb cannot be beat, short term invincibility, auto-collection AND you can survive a hit (or get 3 bomb pieces back)? Yes please, it's nearly as broken as Marisa B.
Sakuya B: Eh...doesn't do it for me. The Unfocused damage is still blah and I'm not feeling any power behind the focused attack. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Bomb is ok (short-term invincibility, an auto-collect and a screen clear) but just feels like a subpar shot type.

Stage 1: Music is great (reminds me of Bad Apple a bit) and the pacing of the stage is fine. Cirno as the S1 midboss pleases me and it's totally in character for her spellcard to just be an amped version of her non-card. Mermaid boss (I'll learn her name eventually) was alright, her 2 non-cards and first spellcard didn't do much for me but her last spellcard is really fun, if a bit easy.

Stage 2: Stage themes are 2 for 2. Once again, the pacing of the stage is good, although it feels a bit easy, even on Lunatic. Sekibsnki's midboss appearance is hit and miss, the non-card is challenging and fun but her spellcard is very, very easy. What's up with that, S1 midboss cards being easier than the S2 midboss cards? Her boss fight is hella enjoyable though. I like the evolution of her non-cards and her spellcards have some nice gimmicks, although the difficulty between them is uneven. Her first card's trick is easy to figure out and capture, her second card isn't much harder, but it's tricky at times to deal damage, and her third is just right.

Stage 3: Oh baby, the best theme yet. This is what a Stage 3 should be, a good level of challenge and holy beep moments but nothing too overboard. There's a decent variety in the enemy types in this stage and a lot of risk vs reward opportunities. Definitely the best stage of the three. The music timings are spot on too, when Kagerou makes her appearance as a midboss and the chorus hits and just...damn. Speaking of the wolfgirl, she's hard. Like, she reminds me of Keine and the buttkicking I usually get from her. She doesn't have an easy spellcard in her deck and while everything of hers is pretty straight forward, non-cards included, she's just tough (ok, non-cards 2 and 3 are very learnable). Maybe I'm out of position on her spellcards but damn, she owns me.

Finally, the plot. I'm not talking about the plot at this time, I'll just join whatever conversation is happening (although it *is* quite interesting to see the differences in each character's behavior with and without their weapon...).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Majildian on May 29, 2013, 04:21:13 am
Sakuya A gets two autocollects per bomb, along with the amazing shot. I would say she's the best for survival.

Sakuya B is very very much the scoring character, being difficult to use due to low shot damage and no bomb damage, but the bomb can be abused to get incredibly high PIV from cancelling bullets.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 29, 2013, 06:09:27 am
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if during ZUN's visit in North America he will reveal the release date to DDC, if not have the full game ready before that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Piranha on May 29, 2013, 07:02:19 am
It COULD be released during the August Comiket, like with MoF and UFO. Also, both had a second trial version that was released mid July.
Just speculation from looking at the wiki, of course.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: iK on May 29, 2013, 07:57:38 am
I must say, Wakasagihime looks quite adorable in that ZUNart.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Piranha on May 29, 2013, 08:05:24 am
I must say, Wakasagihime looks quite adorable in that ZUNart.
IKR?

I like that design even better than Kagerou or Sekibanki.
There's something about the brush for the hair he's using (also for the PCs) and the designs themselves are also good this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Reddyne on May 29, 2013, 12:02:49 pm
I have to agree. Wakasagihime has a pretty, pretty outfit and she seems to have been spared from the occasional foibles of ZUNart. I'm not so much a fan of Sekibanki's attire, but her boss fight is oodles of gimmicky goodness. I like Kagerou and all - moreso than the other two - but the name sounds very boyish I guess? It feels a bit weird. Also since she's a werewoof she probably wears a long dress because her legs are too hairy.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 29, 2013, 12:38:25 pm
She likes to talk about how hairy she is, too. And with those clothes, you wouldn't really be able to tell anyway, so it's a bit TMI if you ask me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on May 29, 2013, 12:58:22 pm
I like Kagerou and all - moreso than the other two - but the name sounds very boyish I guess? It feels a bit weird.
Although it's not written the same way and has a different meaning, from what I've seen with a brief search her name is a homophone to a common japanese girl's name, so I wouldn't say it's boyish.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: marukyuu on May 29, 2013, 03:36:22 pm
Whoa, it only took two new Touhou games for me to come back to these forums :V

I found DDC kind of "meh" the first time I tried it, but now I'm addicted to it.

I'm digging the "back to the basics" approach ZUN has taken with this game.
In my opinion, gathering resources by going over the POC is a simple, yet deep mechanic. Timing the POC rushes correctly requires a bit of planning and a considerable amount of guts, at least if you're trying a no bombs 1cc. Ramming fairies or stray bullets while gathering resources actually feels like a mistake rather than a lost struggle against questionable (or just questionably complicated) game mechanics like in UFO or IN :V
In addition to this, it feels like the game wants you to use and abuse your bombs. The game showers you with resources, but it can and will take them back if you are not actively using them. I'm usually kind of stingy with bomb usage, so I'll have to learn to stop worrying and love the bomb (especially MarisaBroken :getdown:)

I didn't like the new characters at first, but they're growing on me (Wakasagihime in particular has a pretty cute design). The same goes for the music - it isn't subpar as I initially thought. Even though it isn't the best Touhou soundtrack (nothing beats Ten Desires' music in my opinion), it still manages to be nice and catchy.

As for the difficulty, I feel that, on Normal, the game is hard enough to be challenging and not too frustrating.
Stage 1 as a whole is pretty easy (as it should be). The game gets challenging when Sekibanki appears, and then comes Stage 3 with very few clear shots at the POC during the stage portion and its balls-to-the-wall hard boss fight. I can't remember any Stage 3 boss walling the player on Normal like Kagerou, but it's a tense and fun fight nonetheless.

I like the variety of shot types. I don't get what's awesome about ReimuA, though. To me, it feels like a hybrid between Remilia's focused options and Ran from Imperishable Night, with the homing properties and reach of the latter and the low mobility of the former. Her bomb is also unwieldy and doesn't feel powerful at all. I like simpler and direct shots such as ReimuB and SakuyaB better.
Although I'm undecided about SakuyaA's focused shot, I definitely love her bomb. Actually, I love both of Sakuya's bombs.
Marisa is still too fast for my liking, and I've never been a fan of Master Spark, even though I find Dark Spark's graphics pretty cool. Her only saving grace is her clean shot's decent damage output and broken bomb :V

Overall, I think the demo is a lot of fun, and I can see myself playing it obsessively for a long time, at least until the full version is released.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on May 29, 2013, 07:38:25 pm
She likes to talk about how hairy she is, too.
She's talking about her wolf-form/whatever that is during her spellcards. The translation patch phrases it as her fur getting matted rather than her getting hairy.

...Well, okay, I'm hoping she's talking about her wolf-form and that the wiki's translation (http://s24.postimg.org/y0vmvvxyr/kagerou_waoo2.jpg) isn't the most accurate of the two. >_>;

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on May 29, 2013, 08:37:33 pm
This is the last mention of hair in this thread.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 29, 2013, 09:01:08 pm
This is the last mention of hair in this thread.

Carry on.

But... every last inch of her's covered with hair!

Okay, fine.

Anyway, ReimuB is fun. Might try Sakuya A later, even though I don't like using possessed weapons.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hideki on May 30, 2013, 12:06:38 am
Now I have this overwhelming urge to photoshop her face onto Gaston.  Damn you all.

Also holy crap that Marisa B bomb.  It takes forever to go away.  I wonder if it is the longest lasting bomb in the series.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kosachi on May 30, 2013, 12:18:23 am
Also holy crap that Marisa B bomb.  It takes forever to go away.  I wonder if it is the longest lasting bomb in the series.
I believe SA's Mari/Nitori's Cherry Bo err... shield takes that title.

EDIT: Just verified, Mari/Nitori's shield last 15 seconds while DDC MarisaB's Bomb goes away after 8.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 30, 2013, 01:17:10 am
Am I the only one that thinks Sekibanki has a lot of similarities with this boss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSx40EVf7dQ)?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 30, 2013, 01:18:38 am
So it turns out my guaranteed 60FPS comes from 640x480, windowed. Which has made playing this game ... interesting. That itty bitty window can help me see total patterns better, which really helps me milk the shit out of the PoC, but I get in some pretty tight spaces.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: DSveno on May 30, 2013, 02:35:02 am
I have to agree. Wakasagihime has a pretty, pretty outfit and she seems to have been spared from the occasional foibles of ZUNart. I'm not so much a fan of Sekibanki's attire, but her boss fight is oodles of gimmicky goodness. I like Kagerou and all - moreso than the other two - but the name sounds very boyish I guess? It feels a bit weird. Also since she's a werewoof she probably wears a long dress because her legs are too hairy.

I like Sekibanki's theme, not much about her design, though. Kagerou has her "Waon~" that somehow makes want to come back for more bite :V. Wakasagihime is just cute, but I don't find anything else about her appealing aside from being cute.

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 30, 2013, 06:11:08 am
Am I the only one that thinks Sekibanki has a lot of similarities with this boss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSx40EVf7dQ)?
I was thinking something like this instead. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJsiLp4IC8o)

- - -

Looking at Danbooru, looks like Kagerou is the Belle of the Ball, so to speak.  The number of fanart of her is noticeably outpacing the other three.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 30, 2013, 09:30:31 am
Looking at Danbooru, looks like Kagerou is the Belle of the Ball, so to speak.  The number of fanart of her is noticeably outpacing the other three.
Sometimes the fandom really does know best!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 30, 2013, 06:49:33 pm
I was thinking something like this instead. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJsiLp4IC8o)

- - -

Looking at Danbooru, looks like Kagerou is the Belle of the Ball, so to speak.  The number of fanart of her is noticeably outpacing the other three.

I was thinking of Ms. Fortune...
Funny how the way Cirno is drawn on the Touhou Wiki homepage reminds me of Ms. Fortune...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 30, 2013, 11:04:01 pm
Marisa Broken is back!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kami-sama! on May 30, 2013, 11:21:07 pm
So anyways, this is technically my first Touhou game and I'm playing it on normal.
And loooooooooooooooooooooool I suck   :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 31, 2013, 04:26:46 am
Quote from: Marisa A, Stage 3
I'm gonna give you a full-body afro!
--hm.

I don't have to go that far...
Right...?


Well I know which character I'm playing with first in the full version, because WHAT IN THE ACTUAL HELL. :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on May 31, 2013, 05:22:49 am
What are the little pellet things that pop up and fly to your character when your shots hit something?
How do I stop crashing with Sakuya A?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: touhoumaniac on May 31, 2013, 06:50:15 am
What are the little pellet things that pop up and fly to your character when your shots hit something?
Those increase item value.


I'd like marisaB to stay the like she is now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on May 31, 2013, 07:03:43 am
random lunatic clear on stream with marisaB

i feel dirty using her bomb at all

zun please change so i can play marisaB without incredible guilt
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Reddyne on May 31, 2013, 11:30:40 am
random lunatic clear on stream with marisaB

i feel dirty using her bomb at all

zun please change so i can play marisaB without incredible guilt
And then ZUN changed DDC's MarisaB to the MarisaB of UFO.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 31, 2013, 12:18:27 pm
I have some speculation I would like to share with everyone.

The stage 4 boss gimmick: shot type based?
-if you are using a "corrupted" shot type you will fight one of the heroines in her "sane" version, trying to make you reason;
-if you are using a "sane" shot type you will stumble upon one of the heroines using her "corrupted" weapon and you will fight to stop her.

I had this on my mind and wanted to share it, what do you people expect from the stage 4 boss? Gimmick? Or just a normal fight?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 31, 2013, 12:30:47 pm
zun please change so i can play marisaB without incredible guilt
Danmaku is all about power, ze ☆!

I had this on my mind and wanted to share it, what do you people expect from the stage 4 boss? Gimmick? Or just a normal fight?
Has been speculated previously whether we are getting IN-ish stage 4 or not. Nobody knows.

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on May 31, 2013, 12:34:20 pm
I have some speculation I would like to share with everyone.

The stage 4 boss gimmick: shot type based?
-if you are using a "corrupted" shot type you will fight one of the heroines in her "sane" version, trying to make you reason;
-if you are using a "sane" shot type you will stumble upon one of the heroines using her "corrupted" weapon and you will fight to stop her.

I had this on my mind and wanted to share it, what do you people expect from the stage 4 boss? Gimmick? Or just a normal fight?
I prefer that the boss be a new character...  We've fought Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya as stage bosses before, so there won't be fun in fighting them again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on May 31, 2013, 12:40:00 pm
I'd be ok with ★Drizzly Magician★'s speculation; however, I kinda don't think it will happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 31, 2013, 12:44:24 pm
With my interests in Sekibanki, I kinda want to see an Ichabod Crane-type girl to appear.

But for some strange reason, Yumemi fits the role of Ichabod the most IMO. Dunno why...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 31, 2013, 12:45:04 pm
Imosa, Why did your avatar looked as if she was puking happily at first glance?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on May 31, 2013, 12:54:31 pm
Stage 4 boss will be a Frankengirl, Stage 5 will be a mad scientist's assistant, Stage 6 will be the mad scientist.

Extra will be Cirno.

You heard it here first, caw caw!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on May 31, 2013, 02:47:24 pm
So I was reading through SoPM and stumbled across this line in Byakuren's profile (like PMiSS style)

Quote from: SoPM
The scroll she carries (called the Sorcerer's Sutra Scroll) contains the sutras she needs to use her abilities. By saying "contains", it does not mean the sutras are written on paper, but the scroll itself is made purely of these incantations(*4).

Because of that, it is lighter than a paper scroll and the amount of content it can contain is almost infinite. Moreover, it is reputed that it does not deteriorate with time. It even comes equipped with an auto-chanting mode; simply wave it over your head and it will recite spells on its own, apparently.

It is said that she made it to while away the free time she had while sealed in Makai. Many of the materials found in Makai contain their own will. Sorcerer's Sutra Scroll also has its own will, meaning other people are unable to handle it. In Gensokyo, such items are called "cursed". Therefore, the Sorcerer's Sutra Scroll is cursed(*5).

Maybe a bit far fetched, but SoPM came out way before DDC. Are we sensing a possible link here with DDC? Then again, how did Reimu's Gohei, Marisa's Hakkero and Sakuya's knife got corrupted in the first place out of the blue. Or do we have a youkai which has been doing this since Makai is said to be having materials of corruption?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 31, 2013, 03:01:32 pm
Maybe a bit far fetched, but SoPM came out way before DDC. Are we sensing a possible link here with DDC? Then again, how did Reimu's Gohei, Marisa's Hakkero and Sakuya's knife got corrupted in the first place out of the blue. Or do we have a youkai which has been doing this since Makai is said to be having materials of corruption?

That's pretty interesting. My guess is that some youkai (the villain of th14) learned to manipulate the materials found in Makai to curse weapons NOT made there (the gohei, the Hakkero and the knives). Also the weapons now cursed have strange effects on the heroines while they use them (which could be a side effect of what this youkai did?).

Or it could be something entirely different to begin with.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on May 31, 2013, 03:02:28 pm
Maybe a bit far fetched, but SoPM came out way before DDC. Are we sensing a possible link here with DDC? Then again, how did Reimu's Gohei, Marisa's Hakkero and Sakuya's knife got corrupted in the first place out of the blue. Or do we have a youkai which has been doing this since Makai is said to be having materials of corruption?

Well, poltergeists are already a thing in Gensokyo even during PC-98 era so it might be one messing with their weapons. Or whoever is behind the youkai outbreak cannot directly affect humans with the thing she uses so she must use their weapons to slowly make them go insane.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on May 31, 2013, 03:03:48 pm
Helepolis: That is really cool. I kinda doubt there's a connection because that seems like too much plot for touhou, but I would be so exited if it were true. Also, the gif is actually about Tokiko writing a youma(?) book. For a truly skilled youkai writers, text just... flows out of them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on May 31, 2013, 03:29:58 pm
Well, poltergeists are already a thing in Gensokyo even during PC-98 era so it might be one messing with their weapons.
Clearly, the Prismriver sisters are pissed not to have been included in anything since PoFV and they've hatched a plan to replace the playable characters by taking over their weapons.

Three sisters, three weapons. Undeniable, empirical proof right there! :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on May 31, 2013, 06:19:57 pm
Stage 6 will be the mad scientist.
Rikako.
That is all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on June 01, 2013, 12:00:15 am
Danmaku is all about power, ze ☆!
I like her power just fine, it just cancels things forever and gives you a long time to deal free damage and gets you tons of resources. It's gross.

Drizzly: no
Toyo: very probably no
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 02:12:49 am
I prefer that the boss be a new character...  We've fought Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya as stage bosses before, so there won't be fun in fighting them again.

I've heard speculation that instead of Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya, you'll fight Youmu or Sanae depending on whether you're using your cursed weapon or not. This is based on ZUN's comment of "play it and find out" when asked why Youmu and Sanae weren't playable. Story-wise, it's also based on the fact that your characters get sort of bloodthirsty when using weapons. So when you're not using your weapon you fight Youmu because she's acting up from her swords and when you do use your weapons you fight Sanae because she's trying to stop the protagonists who are acting up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on June 01, 2013, 03:33:12 am
murderous youmu wer
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 01, 2013, 03:45:50 am
Stage 4 boss will be a Frankengirl, Stage 5 will be a mad scientist's assistant, Stage 6 will be the mad scientist.

Extra will be Cirno.

You heard it here first, caw caw!

All of this is probably correct, but Stage 5 boss will be a Ninja using huge amounts of backwards logic in regards to the western theme.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 01, 2013, 10:43:05 am
I've heard speculation that instead of Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya, you'll fight Youmu or Sanae depending on whether you're using your cursed weapon or not. This is based on ZUN's comment of "play it and find out" when asked why Youmu and Sanae weren't playable. Story-wise, it's also based on the fact that your characters get sort of bloodthirsty when using weapons.
Huh. That is interesting. I'm a bit Sanae'd out, to be honest, but Youmu returning as a stage boss would be neat. If for no other reason than to hear some Mystic Oriental Dream.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Piranha on June 01, 2013, 10:56:12 am
If for no other reason than to hear some Mystic Oriental Dream.

No other reason necessary.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 11:07:40 am
Huh. That is interesting. I'm a bit Sanae'd out, to be honest, but Youmu returning as a stage boss would be neat. If for no other reason than to hear some Mystic Oriental Dream.
She'd probably get a completely new theme song. That's the normal trend for recurring Windows bosses. Aya, Yuyuko, Marisa... I don't think there have been any exceptions. IN had remixes, but those were the first time those songs appeared in the Windows games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 01, 2013, 11:50:23 am
If one were to go by returning characters being bosses for stage 4, perhaps Alice should be put in consideration as well for this theory? Basically, Sanae vs Reimu, Alice vs. Marisa, and Youmu vs. Sakuya.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on June 01, 2013, 11:51:03 am
She'd probably get a completely new theme song. That's the normal trend for recurring Windows bosses. Aya, Yuyuko, Marisa... I don't think there have been any exceptions. IN had remixes, but those were the first time those songs appeared in the Windows games.
THEN AGAIN... Just think about the first three bosses of DDC, especially Kagerou. Her theme obviously is including parts similiar to UN Owen was her and we also know that ZUN just >loves< to give people nostalgia. So it's likely he would remix something from another Windows game. And then there is Ayas theme that gets used several times in the Windows games (Shoot the Bullet, Double Spoiler) and the themes of PoFV were almost all remixes (partially from IN / PCB).


That's pretty interesting. My guess is that some youkai (the villain of th14) learned to manipulate the materials found in Makai to curse weapons NOT made there (the gohei, the Hakkero and the knives). Also the weapons now cursed have strange effects on the heroines while they use them (which could be a side effect of what this youkai did?).

Or it could be something entirely different to begin with.
Two words: Shinki confirmed!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 11:53:09 am
If one were to go by returning characters being bosses for stage 4, perhaps Alice should be put in consideration as well for this theory? Basically, Sanae vs Reimu, Alice vs. Marisa, and Youmu vs. Sakuya.
Alice was never a "protagonist". She's been Marisa's sidekick, at best. The protagonist role in the shooters has traditionally been reserved for humans anyway. I'd say Futo is more likely than Alice, and Futo's not very likely.

THEN AGAIN... Just think about the first three bosses of DDC, especially Kagerou. Her theme obviously is including parts similiar to UN Owen was her and we also know that ZUN just >loves< to give people nostalgia. So it's likely he would remix something from another Windows game. And then there is Ayas theme that gets used several times in the Windows games (Shoot the Bullet, Double Spoiler) and the themes of PoFV were almost all remixes (partially from IN / PCB).
Magus Night was supposed to be a remix and then he got carried away and made a whole new song. I'm expecting something like that, if this happens. Familiar musical phrases? Sure. But only that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on June 01, 2013, 11:54:40 am
Alice was never a "protagonist". She's been Marisa's sidekick, at best. The protagonist role in the shooters has traditionally been reserved for humans anyway. I'd say Futo is more likely than Alice, and Futo's not very likely.
Sanae is not a human, though. She is a goddess. :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 11:55:41 am
Sanae is not a human, though. She is a goddess. :getdown:
She's an arahitogami. She's fully human and fully god. Like the Emperor of Japan. Not sure why this concept is so hard for some people.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on June 01, 2013, 12:12:27 pm
Alice was never a "protagonist". She's been Marisa's sidekick, at best. The protagonist role in the shooters has traditionally been reserved for humans anyway. I'd say Futo is more likely than Alice, and Futo's not very likely.
Magus Night was supposed to be a remix and then he got carried away and made a whole new song. I'm expecting something like that, if this happens. Familiar musical phrases? Sure. But only that.
Actually, he did full remixes in PoFV as I said. Some are close to not being altered at all, Mystias theme and Youmus theme are good examples for that. Not disregarding what you said and he doesn't do it often, but it does (and did) happen.


She's an arahitogami. She's fully human and fully god. Like the Emperor of Japan. Not sure why this concept is so hard for some people.
Hey, don't get so worked up over it. It was supposed to be funny.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 12:14:24 pm
Hey, don't get so worked up over it. It was supposed to be funny.
I suppose it's one of those jokes that's funny if you're not the guy who's been explaining this over and over again to people for years.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Captain Vulcan on June 01, 2013, 12:15:35 pm
She's an arahitogami. She's fully human and fully god.

A fact that Sanae is extremely proud of.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 12:16:52 pm
Actually, he did full remixes in PoFV as I said. Some are close to not being altered at all, Mystias theme and Youmus theme are good examples for that. Not disregarding what you said and he doesn't do it often, but it does (and did) happen.
I want to say those don't count as "bosses" since they're also playable, but the basic gist of my point is simply going to be that "PoFV doesn't count neener neener" which is hardly a good argument. It still seems way more analogous to Aya in MOF, Yuyuko in TD, and Marisa in FW though. Ensemble games just don't give him the luxury to compose new songs for every single character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on June 01, 2013, 01:14:15 pm
Just a quick question, what is the name of MarisaB's Bomb?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 01:34:19 pm
Just a quick question, what is the name of MarisaB's Bomb?
"Magic Absorber"
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 01, 2013, 02:31:59 pm
I'm pretty disappointed in the themes of the shot types. Their weapons are corrupt but then they uses them in both shot types? What's the point of inconveniencing the characters if you just give them an easy out. Also I heard there were supposed to be 3 shot types per person, was that wrong?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 02:35:58 pm
I'm pretty disappointed in the themes of the shot types. Their weapons are corrupt but then they uses them in both shot types? What's the point of inconveniencing the characters if you just give them an easy out. Also I heard there were supposed to be 3 shot types per person, was that wrong?
They don't use them in both shot types. The sprites even edit out their arms holding the weapons. I mean, I guess Sakuya throws knives anyway, but we can assume they're different knives. She doesn't have any other bullet types associated with her anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on June 01, 2013, 02:49:52 pm
She doesn't have any other bullet types associated with her anyway.
Then why didn't ZUN give her a new type of bullet :V ? I was hoping we should see something different from her than just knives.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 01, 2013, 03:31:52 pm
Then why didn't ZUN give her a new type of bullet :V ? I was hoping we should see something different from her than just knives.
This. With regards to Reimu and Marisa, I expected ZUN to have them borrow weapons from one of their friends. Marisa could get something goofy from Nitori and Reimu could get something horrible from, Yukari or Sanae. It works out best for Sakuya though. I have no idea who she could borrow from but she's been absent for years, so who has she met over that time, who would help her out here? Someone beyond the mansion, like... I still have no clue, Keine, maybe Youmu (they get along in Life of Maid)?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 01, 2013, 03:43:49 pm
This. With regards to Reimu and Marisa, I expected ZUN to have them borrow weapons from one of their friends. Marisa could get something goofy from Nitori and Reimu could get something horrible from, Yukari or Sanae. It works out best for Sakuya though. I have no idea who she could borrow from but she's been absent for years, so who has she met over that time, who would help her out here? Someone beyond the mansion, like... I still have no clue, Keine, maybe Youmu (they get along in Life of Maid)?
Well, Sakuya is one thing, but Reimu's always had her talismans (has she ever even used her gohei outside of fighting games before?) and Marisa's always had her Magic Missiles so why would you think they'd need to borrow weapons?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 01, 2013, 03:56:42 pm
So it turns out my guaranteed 60FPS comes from 640x480, windowed. Which has made playing this game ... interesting. That itty bitty window can help me see total patterns better, which really helps me milk the shit out of the PoC, but I get in some pretty tight spaces.
I wanted to talk about it using PM but I'm not allowed to do it yet (I don't have necessary amount of posts for now).
Like you, I'm using Linux Mint, NVidia GPU and have performance issues with DDC (average FPS is 58 and something like 30-40 in some parts of stage 2).
I did a quick check of previous games and noticed one thing. While there is no problems with 6-9 games, I have slightly less than 60 FPS in 10-14 games. Well, I know that my PC isn't new but the interesting thing is next. I started to play TH games quite recently. I did my 1CC Normal of SA at this New Year and still have a replay. I checked it now and noticed that FPS isn't constant 60, it always changes between 56-60. But the game shows that I recorded it at constant FPS 60 (and there are noticeable slows: I have some landmarks using music in 4 and 5 stages and now those moments in BGM are shifted a little).
So, my guess that there were some changes in Wine within half a year that made touhou games starting from TH10 play slower (there is a little chance that it related to NVidia drivers somehow but I doubt), I even checked it on clean wine prefix. Linux, unlike Windows, is more difficult to be polluted with applications so I don't thing that these slowdown are here because I installed something strange since that to slow my system (well, maybe I need to check it on clean OS but I prefer not to do it).
So... well, I'm not fond of current situation.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 01, 2013, 05:20:22 pm
Interesting, vector. One clarification: I'm using Crunchbang. If it's Wine then it's just a matter of trying an older prefix. If it's Nvidia, well, playing with drivers in Linux is always a PITA. Even if testing is fun.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 01, 2013, 06:11:13 pm
Well, Sakuya is one thing, but Reimu's always had her talismans (has she ever even used her gohei outside of fighting games before?) and Marisa's always had her Magic Missiles so why would you think they'd need to borrow weapons?
Honestly, I thought Reimu and Marisa were always using their gohei and mini-hakero. Like, they just  need those items to properly use their magic.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hanzo K. on June 01, 2013, 07:03:05 pm
Marisa only needs the Hakkero for sparks. Aside from that, she's just fine. Note how MarisaB's bomb isn't the spark, but MarisaA's is.

As for Reimu, the Gohei's just a ceremonial tool that also happens to be remarkably convenient for busting youkai heads.
It's like a baseball bat, you don't need it to play anything like baseball(such as stickball), but it's useful all the same.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 01, 2013, 08:16:34 pm
Interesting, vector. One clarification: I'm using Crunchbang. If it's Wine then it's just a matter of trying an older prefix. If it's Nvidia, well, playing with drivers in Linux is always a PITA. Even if testing is fun.
Oh, then I misread it. I just noticed that you mentioned Linux Mint so I thought that you use it.
I tried some older versions of Wine 1.5 (because it was December then I guess I was using 1.5.15 or something like that) but unfortunately it didn't help (maybe it was Wine 1.4 somehow...?), I still have slowdowns in SA and, of course, DDC.
So, remaining possible culprits are NVidia drivers, Linux kernel update, some strange background applications and... magic? Playing with NVidia drivers is definitely annoying and unsafe, and checking fresh system requires additional harddrive (I don't want to reinstall system just for that to find out that it doesn't change a thing). Both options are quite unpleasant.
One more thing - I remember that every (?) touhou game I played stressed my computer a lot (during playing, coolers in my system unit worked significantly louder) but not now - I'm not sure if I can differ the noise volume of when touhou game is working.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Starxsword on June 01, 2013, 08:59:43 pm
Quote
They don't use them in both shot types. The sprites even edit out their arms holding the weapons. I mean, I guess Sakuya throws knives anyway, but we can assume they're different knives. She doesn't have any other bullet types associated with her anyway.

She uses knives in her non-corrupted shot type too? I thought she was going to use playing cards or something. Oh well, that's too bad then.

Quote
Honestly, I thought Reimu and Marisa were always using their gohei and mini-hakero. Like, they just  need those items to properly use their magic.

What Hanzo said. Neither of them need to use weapons. In fact, Reimu hardly uses her Gohei. Kind of like Marisa doesn't even need her broom to fly, but she does, because it is witch like.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 01, 2013, 09:55:56 pm
Personally, I think it's neat that we get to see the girls dealing with regular weapons and "possessed" weapons. And it seems it's a pretty crucial part to the story, so I reckon that has a lot to do with the choice made.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 01, 2013, 10:20:08 pm
Ok so unlike other Touhou games DDC as you know is the first to be made for higher resolutions. The game seems to use a different file for text and common data. But you'll notice on higher resolutions that the text isn't aligned correctly and most of the stage stuff is still in a low quality like Reimu and some enemies.

I wonder will ZUN make bigger versions of every sprite.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sparen on June 01, 2013, 10:25:14 pm
Ok so unlike other Touhou games DDC as you know is the first to be made for higher resolutions. The game seems to use a different file for text and common data. But you'll notice on higher resolutions that the text isn't aligned correctly and most of the stage stuff is still in a low quality like Reimu and some enemies.

I wonder will ZUN make bigger versions of every sprite.

It's possible, and very likely. However, rendering the bullets to be a larger size isn't exactly easy given how packed they are. He'd have to re-sprite his bullets, and that's not favorable. Also, he still has to deal with the ugly Stage 2 pre-midboss background issue where the willow leaves move halfway across the screen, the alpha values for the background change, and where the camera view shifts over a certain amount of time, requiring the effects to be layered and rendered at a different angle.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 01, 2013, 10:38:57 pm
It's possible, and very likely. However, rendering the bullets to be a larger size isn't exactly easy given how packed they are. He'd have to re-sprite his bullets, and that's not favorable. Also, he still has to deal with the ugly Stage 2 pre-midboss background issue where the willow leaves move halfway across the screen, the alpha values for the background change, and where the camera view shifts over a certain amount of time, requiring the effects to be layered and rendered at a different angle.

You know I worded that wrong. What I mean by bigger is ZUN making the sprites more detailed for bigger screens as we can still see the characters and enemies have very low detail to them.

Basically ZUN should clean up everything and give them more detail.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 01, 2013, 11:06:06 pm
I think sprites are pretty low on the priorities list when it comes to "things to put more detail into making". Rather, he seems to leave the lavish touches to his bullet patterns and stage backgrounds, which I think makes a lot more sense to make pretty than an object that's like 15x15 pixels or however small sprites are.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on June 01, 2013, 11:19:41 pm
Basically ZUN should clean up everything and give them more detail.
This is something I've been curious about myself. Normally, when you make a game supporting multiple resolutions and you don't want to create a spritesheet per supported resolution, you create your sprites at the largest res and scale them down. The other way around (sprites made for smallest resolution, scaled up for larger ones) means the texture has to be stretched - it looks blurry if filtering is used, pixelated otherwise.

I'm not sure why ZUN offered these options. I can't run the highest res but the second-highest looks and plays the exact same (resolution-independant movement and properly scaled sprites to retain the exact same feel and mechanics). It's just a little blurrier than 640x480. :) It doesn't feel like ZUN done anything more than merely "support" these resolutions. Although, given that this is a demo, maybe we can assume ZUN has only worked on the lower-res version of the graphics and isn't showing off the full potential of the larger resolutions yet?

(Fake ninja edit: I suppose some modern video hardware may have started dropping support for 640x480, so maybe it's to offer alternatives?)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on June 02, 2013, 12:12:04 am
the first thing he really needs to fix is the stage 2 background

not sure what the fuck he did with that but it chugs
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on June 02, 2013, 12:18:06 am
the first thing he really needs to fix is the stage 2 background

not sure what the fuck he did with that but it chugs

If by "chugs" you mean "is what lags the game more than anything else," than yeah, it chugs. Interestingly, though, the only part that really lags for me is midboss Sekibanki, unless I'm in 1/2 FPS mode. Especially the nonspell.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 02, 2013, 12:59:12 am
Likewise for me. That stage is the make-or-break point for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 02, 2013, 04:59:07 am
Just played for the first time and boy is it great to play a game other then IN. Also, I went straight to Normal mode. I still had to use 1 continue on my second try but I think I can do it with a little more practice. Depending on what features are in the final game (besides spell practice which is the big plus), I could see this replacing IN as my favorite game. Actually do we know if there will be things like unlockable spell cards?
My stage 2 didn't lag, but I'm also playing on windows, so that may not be relevant.
I noticed that when switching between shot types, where Sakuya's arm disappears, some pixels from the arm are left over... that's just weird.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on June 02, 2013, 08:08:24 am
(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee487/KarisaMirisame/th14tr_overdrive.png)

Possible evidence that Overdrive spells return (if it isn't just leftover from TD)? I wouldn't be surprised, anyway. Both games so far with spell practice have had an additional set of above-Lunatic spellcards.

(Cheat Engine used for the screenshot. Difficulty is at 004f15d4, set it to 5 and Esc-R. 4 gives you Extra difficulty like usual. Both are as glitchy as in TD. The game didn't give me any Overdrive-exclusive spells like TD did though. Presumably there aren't any in the demo.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 02, 2013, 10:40:25 am
I find it funny that sprites looks better if I play it fullscreen in 640x480 than 1280x960. Well, any other graphics (HUD, menu etc) is better in higher resolution but it's not like I pay any attention to it during playing (unlike sprites). And I have a feeling that it plays smoother in low-res.
Anyway, I guess such kind of things are expected from alpha versions. I hope ZUN will fix lags in stage 2 and implement real hi-res support.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: GuppyForce on June 02, 2013, 12:03:00 pm
Ooh nice. Wakasagihime's last spell probably is her overdrive (and damn that'll be a pretty fun overdrive). I'd assume this one is Sekibanki's. As for Kagerou, all of them are already pretty damn challenging, though they probably have about the same overdrive potential
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on June 02, 2013, 03:32:09 pm
I think some one has posted this idea, but I think one of possible bosses in DDC might be a hobgoblin. Considering how ZUN likes to foreshadow stuff (Night Parade appearing in FS and then brought back in HM), the appearance of them in WaHH would easily mean an appearance of one of them as a proper character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 02, 2013, 03:58:32 pm
I think some one has posted this idea, but I think one of possible bosses in DDC might be a hobgoblin. Considering how ZUN likes to foreshadow stuff (Night Parade appearing in FS and then brought back in HM), the appearance of them in WaHH would easily mean an appearance of one of them as a proper character.
Where else does ZUN like to foreshadow?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on June 02, 2013, 05:17:59 pm
Where else does ZUN like to foreshadow?
To give some example, think about the "Unidentified" portion of PMiSS. In it had kappa, Dragon God, celestial, hermit, Eight Million Gods and Divine Spirits. Then came Nitori, Tenshi, Kasen and multiple gods. Heck, since hobgoblins are one of few youkais in Gensokyo to not have notable member, I find it rather likeable hobgoblin might appear in this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on June 02, 2013, 06:04:55 pm
Possible evidence that Overdrive spells return (if it isn't just leftover from TD)?
ZUN is notorious for building his games literally on top of his older ones and leaving in legacy code and settings. He's done the exact same thing (http://diceroller.site40.net/?page=touhou_08e#in_pha) with Imperishable Night, for instance. And MoF's hint system still has a LOT of usable-but-unused code up to at least UFO (http://diceroller.site40.net/?page=touhou_12e#hint), possible TD. Given his development pattern, one would expect to find the code for overdrive mode intact in DDC - it isn't evidence of anything though. ;)

Personally I'm hoping for something unique. IN gave its bosses (and even playable characters) unique spellcards that had to be unlocked by meeting certain in-game objectives. TD gave its bosses an upgraded version of one of their existing spellcards in exchange for unlocking all other difficulties for said spellcard. There's clearly still plenty to explore in a system like this and I doubt ZUN's creativity is anywhere near about to run out or that he'd be satisfied with simply reusing the exact same system as in a previous game. :)

----

Quick little aside - I just noticed the current translation patch for the demo seems to auto-update itself whenever run (which is pretty neat!). The translation for Kagerou's defeat dialog in Reimu A's route now uses the wiki's "because I get hairy" translation rather than using the original "fur getting matted" one. Gotta say, I liked their original take on it better though. ^^;
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on June 02, 2013, 08:54:17 pm
Quote
Quick little aside - I just noticed the current translation patch for the demo seems to auto-update itself whenever run (which is pretty neat!). The translation for Kagerou's defeat dialog in Reimu A's route now uses the wiki's "because I get hairy" translation rather than using the original "fur getting matted" one. Gotta say, I liked their original take on it better though. ^^;

Why, that's a new one. There is already a Translation Patch?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 02, 2013, 09:17:24 pm
There is a JavaScript patch (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Touhou_Patch_Center) which updates itself.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 03, 2013, 01:04:02 am
There is a JavaScript patch (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Touhou_Patch_Center) which updates itself.

The one for IN has super small text, I'll stick to the regular ones. But that's not the case for DDC.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: crotchpuncha on June 03, 2013, 07:54:22 am
So just ran through this Demo real quick on Normal. Used Reimu A. Really really like it. First it's beautiful. Really great to look at. I also like the return to simpler mechanics, tho I had hoped that also meant the return of bomb and 1up cards. Oh well, I don't mind that much. The bosses are dope. The second boss fucked me up the most, lot of bullets with long tails, kept crashing into them during my dodges. 3rd boss is fucking awesome. I love how she howls and transforms into a giant wolf head. So awesome.

The music is great to, I can't wait to hear some mixes for it.

I am even more excited for the full game then I was before.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 03, 2013, 08:42:24 pm
The one for IN has super small text, I'll stick to the regular ones. But that's not the case for DDC.

Which reminds me:

Is anyone else working on an English translation patch for DDC? I haven't seen anything on Gensokyo.org.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aqua Soo on June 03, 2013, 09:33:45 pm
Just making some observations and speculations...

> The bosses' music theme names all have the western monster names in Katakana at the end: Mermaid, Dullahan, Werewolf. Unless ZUN is just teasing us, I predict we will continue to see youkai with western equivalents as later bosses.
> Kishinjou. The Kanji for Kishin aren't the ones for "oni god," but the homophone is definitely intended. Maybe, for stage 4~6, the protagonists will infiltrate an youkai/oni stronghold?
> Those creepy shadows behind characters in  character selection...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on June 03, 2013, 10:57:34 pm
鬼神 is the basis of 神 in 怪力乱神 just to note
not that i think it's relevant in any way
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 04, 2013, 12:50:49 am
Which reminds me:

Is anyone else working on an English translation patch for DDC? I haven't seen anything on Gensokyo.org.
I'm pretty sure the normal group is going to do it, but they're waiting for the final version. No need to waste effort on a demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 04, 2013, 05:02:40 am
I just had a theory for the reason why Overdrives have a high default point value. Ok, so in extra modes of Touhou games the point values are always higher than they normally would be (a-lot higher), Overdrive mode in DDC has a base point of 100,000 per point item (assuming you're above the POC), Extra mode does not have a higher base point than the main game modes. Therefor ZUN might add Ultra mode himself rather than letting hackers do it.(since alot of stuff becomes impossible anyway).

Touhou even if it's not actually "Ultra" it may very well be something to sit in between Lunatic and Overdrive.(which could be renamed to extra given the current evidence)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2013, 05:03:57 am
It's probably just for overdrives in spell practice like TD
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rizado on June 04, 2013, 10:03:30 am
I have trouble with SakuyaA. Game crashes after I defeat tse second boss. Other characters (including SakuyaB) are fine.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on June 04, 2013, 12:43:05 pm
Since I have skipped alot of the thread now, I'm not sure if this has already been discussed, but this seems quite hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_EGRwLQer8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_EGRwLQer8)
Marisa is broken once again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on June 04, 2013, 05:03:15 pm
Does anyone have any idea how to play the replay properly (or could record a movie from it it if it works properly  :derp:), since it desyncs for me on the mermaid, and I've somehow managed to clear Lunatic on 1cc, but didn't record it live...
http://tinyurl.com/mx9uogr (http://tinyurl.com/mx9uogr)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 04, 2013, 08:52:45 pm
It's probably just for overdrives in spell practice like TD

But why would it need such a high point value if it's for spell practice? You don't get even get point items from spell practice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 04, 2013, 09:46:02 pm
Does anyone have any idea how to play the replay properly (or could record a movie from it it if it works properly  :derp:), since it desyncs for me on the mermaid, and I've somehow managed to clear Lunatic on 1cc, but didn't record it live...
http://tinyurl.com/mx9uogr (http://tinyurl.com/mx9uogr)
I have desync issue with your replay too.
It's still alpha so you're just out of luck. I dount that there is anything to fix it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2013, 09:55:36 pm
But why would it need such a high point value if it's for spell practice? You don't get even get point items from spell practice.
If you look at Ten Desires, it's -exactly- what he does in that game. There's no reason to think it's any different this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 04, 2013, 10:16:08 pm
If you look at Ten Desires, it's -exactly- what he does in that game. There's no reason to think it's any different this time.

Oh TD had a large point bonus for ODs I didn't know that. There goes my hopes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on June 04, 2013, 10:43:49 pm
I just managed to, God Almighty knows how, get another 1cc clear on lunatic (again thanks to SakuyA's lolbomb and ridiculous resource drops on s3), and this time no desync. Might be related to me not scrolling through the text and reading it this time around  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Space Flower on June 06, 2013, 07:21:10 am
Good for Sakuya, but next in line to go from Stage 5 Boss to playable is Rin, so I'm kind of anxious so see if the trend continues.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 06, 2013, 08:40:04 am
Good for Sakuya, but next in line to go from Stage 5 Boss to playable is Rin, so I'm kind of anxious so see if the trend continues.
That's an interesting speculation, didn't hear it before. But in that case Reisen was skipped (I can't consider PoFV) so it's more just a coincidence than an intention to make them playable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TrueShadow on June 06, 2013, 10:07:34 am
Anyine else thinking that the title Double Dealing Character Have something to do that the characters so far has both Eastern and Western (AKA double) charactersitics?
-Wakasagihime is a ningyo, also identified as a mermaid.
-Sekibanki is a rokurokubi that's also identified as a dullahan
-Kagerou is a werewolf, but of a Japanese wolf type

Good for Sakuya, but next in line to go from Stage 5 Boss to playable is Rin, so I'm kind of anxious so see if the trend continues.

I think the trend ends after the Moriya Shrine arc begin to be honest. I certainly won't expect playable Orin or Shou anytime soon. Just look at the pattern:
Sakuya - servant of Remilia the final boss, most likely to go out of Scarlet Devil Mansion
Youmu - servant of Yuyuko the final boss, most likely to go out of Hakugyokurou
Reisen - servant of Eirin and Kaguya the final bosses, most likely to go out of Eientei (there's Tewi but Tewi probably prefers doing her own thing rather than solving incidents)
Then look at the second arc:
Sanae - servant of Kanako the final boss, most likely to go out of Moriya Shrine, becomes playable after one skipped game
Orin - servant of...Satori the 4th stage boss? Likely to go out of Former Hell, but to gather corpses. She doesn't seem the type to solve incidents.
Shou - servant of Byakuren the final boss. Doesn't look like to go out much
Futo - servant of Miko the final boss. But I think Miko is the type to go out herself rather than sending servants.

That's an interesting speculation, didn't hear it before. But in that case Reisen was skipped (I can't consider PoFV) so it's more just a coincidence than an intention to make them playable.

Reisen still got included in the trend, though somewhat. She's one of the five initial characters of PoFV, with the other four being previous playable characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: GuardianTempest on June 06, 2013, 12:31:04 pm
I don't know why, but I love the howling sound effect Kagerou uses.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on June 06, 2013, 12:35:23 pm
Well it always amazes me people try quite hard to detect patterns in ZUN's ideas.

So far, there are no patterns for playable characters. It was proven faulty in the past and will be continue to be proven faulty in the future. ZUN doesn't make patterns, he makes stories. There is no such as girl X appears in Y because she was Z. (Hello Kogasa Ex).

Again: ZUN makes girls fit in the story, not patterns fit in the girls. Take a look at IN and SA teaming up motivations (ry.

The full release of Touhou (I guess Summer Ket?) will blow our minds as usual.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 06, 2013, 12:56:38 pm
Well it always amazes me people try quite hard to detect patterns in ZUN's ideas.

So far, there are no patterns for playable characters. It was proven faulty in the past and will be continue to be proven faulty in the future. ZUN doesn't make patterns, he makes stories. There is no such as girl X appears in Y because she was Z. (Hello Kogasa Ex).

Again: ZUN makes girls fit in the story, not patterns fit in the girls. Take a look at IN and SA teaming up motivations (ry.

The full release of Touhou (I guess Summer Ket?) will blow our minds as usual.
I agree with this. I don't like to speculate about what ZUN is thinking because speculations should be about touhou (although it is sometimes unavoidable). The other day, I thought it was weird that Ichirin was a representative for the Buddhists in HM, instead of Shou but in retrospect this makes a lot of sense because, while Shou is Byakuren's disciple, Byakuren actually worships Shou. You wouldn't send the object of your worship out as your errand boy. Ichirin seems like a much better person for something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on June 06, 2013, 01:13:58 pm
Well speculations are fine if they are based on sources like let us say previous game dialogues, endings (obvious spoiler). That way you can fiddle around and perhaps have some what suspicion of what is to come. But trying to find them or fuel them using "patterns" is just odd. Nobody expected Youmu to be playable in 10D. Nobody expected Sanae to be playable in UFO and nobody expected Sakuya to be playable in DDC.

It is not like ZUN is going to add another playable character suddenly in the full version.

And Shou + Byakuren is indeed a complex relationship so Akyuu claims. Except that is all left to our imagination, like Dark Tewi always claims.


Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Unfortunate on June 06, 2013, 02:33:28 pm
Well speculations are fine if they are based on sources like let us say previous game dialogues, endings (obvious spoiler). That way you can fiddle around and perhaps have some what suspicion of what is to come. But trying to find them or fuel them using "patterns" is just odd. Nobody expected Youmu to be playable in 10D. Nobody expected Sanae to be playable in UFO and nobody expected Sakuya to be playable in DDC.

It is not like ZUN is going to add another playable character suddenly in the full version.

And Shou + Byakuren is indeed a complex relationship so Akyuu claims. Except that is all left to our imagination, like Dark Tewi always claims.

Dark Tewi? First time I've heard about that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 06, 2013, 04:12:41 pm
@Heleopolis: Right, that's speculation based on stuff in touhou, not speculation based on stuff about ZUN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on June 06, 2013, 04:15:19 pm
Dark Tewi? First time I've heard about that.
It has nothing to do with DDC. Dark Tewi, how people call her because of her dark outfit and tan, features in a doujin called "Why did she leave the miniature garden, the oni is out" by Maruchira (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Maruchira)

The artist tells us through Tewi that ZUN's plot-holes and unexplained things gives us freedom to "shape" Gensoukyo as we like. Hence why Touhou's fanbase is large in the first place. Said page is here (http://i40.tinypic.com/fd4w75.jpg) (the doujin is pretty decent read).

Again, has nothing to do with DDC.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on June 06, 2013, 05:03:32 pm
Anyine else thinking that the title Double Dealing Character Have something to do that the characters so far has both Eastern and Western (AKA double) charactersitics?
-Wakasagihime is a ningyo, also identified as a mermaid.
-Sekibanki is a rokurokubi that's also identified as a dullahan
-Kagerou is a werewolf, but of a Japanese wolf type
I think you are onto something here. It seems believable because ZUN always mentions a lot about western and eastern stuff (especially eastern) and how he got his ideas.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Space Flower on June 06, 2013, 09:26:20 pm
I think you are onto something here. It seems believable because ZUN always mentions a lot about western and eastern stuff (especially eastern) and how he got his ideas.
I wonder what that would make Cirno's appearance in DDC?
On Orin, I totally get that oftentimes patterns are much moreso links the fans try to draw between points rather than frameworks Zun uses to place his points. After all, if a new character shows up, it will probably be contrary to old speculation and only create newer ideas. It was more of a 5A of a theory--I just like speculating.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on June 06, 2013, 09:48:27 pm
I wonder what that would make Cirno's appearance in DDC?
Stage 1 takes place over Misty Lake, Cirno's usual hangout. Pretty simple connection right there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 06, 2013, 10:09:49 pm
She'll also be returning as Extra boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: commandercool on June 07, 2013, 12:06:02 am
Finally set aside a few hours to take a look at the demo, following having read almost nothing about it.

-The weapon shot types seem like a lot more fun than the weaponless shot types. Assuming these will effect the story in some way, possibly alternate last boss?

-Marisa's conversation portraits are surprisingly sinister.

-Dullahan boss means maybe I'm one step closer to getting a mummy Touhou.(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz304/dummy2205/icon_eek.gif)

-Music didn't particularly impress me, but sometimes it takes awhile for me to warm up to Touhou music.

-Happy to see the aesthetic elements I liked back from Ten Desires, but for the most part not the ones I didn't.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 07, 2013, 03:39:36 am
She'll also be returning as Extra boss.

And I shall fight her as Marisa.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on June 07, 2013, 04:36:33 am
The following is also a pattern, kind of, but it is interesting if you think about it.
Stage 1 takes place in the Misty Lake, which was shown in EoSD.
Stage 2 takes place in the Human Village, but it was shown in IN, which might not make it a pattern anymore.
Stage 3 takes place in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost, which also takes place in IN too.
PCB takes place in the Hakugyokurou, which is basically another world, so IN has to put another stage to replace it.
Following this pattern, which I doubt is going to happen, but as I said is interesting:
Stage 4 should be a place in MoF since PoFV didn't really feature a whole new area besides Higan. The stage might be on Youkai Mountain.
Stage 5 would take place in the Underworld, which is in SA.
Stage 6 could take place in the Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum‎ which is obviously TD.
UFO is skipped because Makai is another world.
But this is just for if I were making the game. I'm pretty sure this won't happen. It's just a coincidence to have all familiar stages.

Cirno might have been placed in to have a Misty Lake midboss, and maybe because Cirno is really popular. I am also creeped out of the second boss. All the species so far have been new too.
The music can be catchy after a while. I really like the stage themes and the boss theme of stage 1. Also, stage 3's stage theme has the main theme of Touhou in it. Which the original Bamboo Forest of the Lost stage theme in IN has too. They also sound alike, so there is a chance the stage 3 theme is just a remix. But now that I think about it, stage 1's theme also sounds like it was the Misty Lake theme in EoSD, but made more upbeat and mysterious.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Space Flower on June 07, 2013, 05:13:03 am
Stage 1 takes place over Misty Lake, Cirno's usual hangout. Pretty simple connection right there.
It really is a simple connection. One wonders then, why it needs to be said.
I was wondering how Cirno would fit in among the new characters if that western-eastern idea were to hold true. It could very easily be that Cirno's appearance holds no intrinsic value, yeah.

Zun's really rocking it out with this one. "Hey look, a cute little mermaid!" *cue bass-heavy distorted guitar riffs*

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on June 07, 2013, 08:12:12 am
PCB takes place in the Hakugyokurou, which is basically another world, so IN has to put another stage to replace it.
PCB takes at more locations than just the Netherworld you know, just saying.

Following this pattern, which I doubt is going to happen, but as I said is interesting:
Stage 4 should be a place in MoF since PoFV didn't really feature a whole new area besides Higan. The stage might be on Youkai Mountain.
Stage 5 would take place in the Underworld, which is in SA.
Stage 6 could take place in the Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum‎ which is obviously TD.
UFO is skipped because Makai is another world.
But this is just for if I were making the game. I'm pretty sure this won't happen. It's just a coincidence to have all familiar stages.
Has been mentioned before we're most likely revisiting previous locations. After all, this is Gensokyo and it is not like as if Makai hasn't been visited before. After three familiar locations I am not quite sure if we can call it a coincidence any more. Stage 2 can be somehow questionable but 1 and 3 are spot on previous locations. Also there is no such thing as Stage 5 being SA, it could be MoF or 10D or maybe even UFO location. Otherwise Bamboo Forest would've been stage 4 and not 3 in DDC.

Cirno might have been placed in to have a Misty Lake midboss, and maybe because Cirno is really popular.
Again, popularity and patterns have nothing to do with ZUN's mindset. Girls are fit into stories, not into patterns. Visiting Misty Lake is the only reason for Cirno popping up. Could've been Daiyousei even you know.

Also, stage 3's stage theme has the main theme of Touhou in it. Which the original Bamboo Forest of the Lost stage theme in IN has too. They also sound alike, so there is a chance the stage 3 theme is just a remix.
Forgot the exact name of the original song but yes, it is the famous Title song we have which has been remixed as a stage songs few times. In IN it was called Retribution for the Eternal Night, if I am not mistaking. Always personally love the tune returning in the title songs.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hatateru on June 07, 2013, 09:49:19 am
It's called "Theme of Eastern Story", if I'm not mistaken, it's the leitmotif of Touhou. In fact you can hear some traces of this theme in Gensokyo Millenium and the beginning of Candid Friend.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 07, 2013, 11:00:39 am
Good for Sakuya, but next in line to go from Stage 5 Boss to playable is Rin, so I'm kind of anxious so see if the trend continues.
There's really a much simpler explanation. Stage 5 bosses are much more likely to be human, and humans are much more likely to be protagonists in main-series shooting games. Because of a rather explicit "youkai cause incidents, humans resolve them" thing that forms the basic core of ZUN's storytelling (not that he can't deviate from it when he wants to). I wouldn't expect Rin or Shou to ever be playable in a shooter because they're not human. Futo... maybe, but it's not entirely clear to me if shikaisen are counted as human or not.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 07, 2013, 11:15:56 am
There's really a much simpler explanation. Stage 5 bosses are much more likely to be human, and humans are much more likely to be protagonists in main-series shooting games. Because of a rather explicit "youkai cause incidents, humans resolve them" thing that forms the basic core of ZUN's storytelling (not that he can't deviate from it when he wants to). I wouldn't expect Rin or Shou to ever be playable in a shooter because they're not human. Futo... maybe, but it's not entirely clear to me if shikaisen are counted as human or not.
I think it's one of the most plausible explanation for playable characters.
So, if we consider it to be true, what other human (and partially human) characters are possible to become playable at some point in the future?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on June 07, 2013, 11:47:05 am
They're already balanced out. Or, rather, it's not like the corrupted shottypes are better than the others or anything.

Okay. So i guess being able to target the boss with powerful exploding daggers no matter where on the screen she's located and having a bomb, that in addition to saving your butt also grants you a lengthy moment of invincibility and restores 3 bomb pieces to you if you don't need it, in no ways make her less powerful than her uncorrupted counterpart who is weaker, doesn't have the same range and a bomb that isn't anywhere near as useful for survival. In fact, a bomb that is only good for gathering up lots of PiV which in itself doesn't really give her a benefit compared to the others since the shots don't compete against each other.

ReimuA is also easier to use than ReimuB due to her homing gohei thingy even though I don't particularly care for it. The only character I can see not having a way superior corrupted weapon counterpart is Marisa.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on June 07, 2013, 11:49:50 am
Again, popularity and patterns have nothing to do with ZUN's mindset. Girls are fit into stories, not into patterns.
The selection of playable characters in PCB/IN/PoFV is a pretty obvious pattern (add the previous stage 5 boss as a starting character), he just chose to abandon it because he wanted to reboot the series with MoF. And have a look at PoFV Youmu - the flower outbreak didn't affect the Netherworld, she just went out for the hell of it, which many other characters could have done as well. Why did Youmu make it into the game then over Keine or Patchouli or Suika or Ran? As a starting character with Sakuya and Reisen (a youkai, so it's not like he had to pick humans) no less?
Of course, this is the last instance of a clear pattern that I can detect (aside from simple stuff like Reimu/Marisa being the default playable characters), and it's been 8 years since then, but I still wouldn't discount some pattern building on ZUN's side.
I think it's one of the most plausible explanation for playable characters.
So, if we consider it to be true, what other human (and partially human) characters are possible to become playable at some point in the future?
always playable: Reimu, Marisa
stage 5 more-or-less humans: Sakuya, Youmu, Sanae, Futo
other in-game humans: Keine, Mokou, Miko (Eirin/Kaguya?)
printwork humans/half-humans: Rinnosuke, Akyuu, Kosuzu (I won't even begin to fathom that the Watatsukis are interested in incident resolution :derp:)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 07, 2013, 12:28:32 pm
Again, popularity and patterns have nothing to do with ZUN's mindset.
So I know about how ZUN loves the doujin mindset and not working for popularity, but is that really true? Why did ZUN make Fairy Wars? In a panel, I heard it was because ZUN saw Cirno as this really popular character, so he made Fairy Wars to be responsive to the fans. However, if he were making games for himself then he can't be making games because characters are popular.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 07, 2013, 12:43:11 pm
So I know about how ZUN loves the doujin mindset and not working for popularity, but is that really true? Why did ZUN make Fairy Wars? In a panel, I heard it was because ZUN saw Cirno as this really popular character, so he made Fairy Wars to be responsive to the fans. However, if he were making games for himself then he can't be making games because characters are popular.
Long before he made Fairy Wars, he made Cirno come back for a cameo appearance in PCB and playable in PoFV. She was already one of the most commonly recurring secondary characters. I don't think it's a stretch to say that ZUN himself is a fan of Cirno.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TrueShadow on June 07, 2013, 12:47:48 pm
Speculating what kind of youkai will appear next..
Ushi-oni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ushi-oni) <-> Minotaur
 namahage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namahage) <-> Ogre (although ogre is more commonly associated with oni)
Kirin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin) <-> Unicorn (inb4 Satsuki Rin)
Hitotsume-nyuudo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitotsume-ny%C5%ABd%C5%8D) <-> Cyclops
Nure-onna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nure-onna) <-> Medusa (quite a stretch, though...)

The selection of playable characters in PCB/IN/PoFV is a pretty obvious pattern (add the previous stage 5 boss as a starting character), he just chose to abandon it because he wanted to reboot the series with MoF. And have a look at PoFV Youmu - the flower outbreak didn't affect the Netherworld, she just went out for the hell of it, which many other characters could have done as well. Why did Youmu make it into the game then over Keine or Patchouli or Suika or Ran? As a starting character with Sakuya and Reisen (a youkai, so it's not like he had to pick humans) no less?

This. Wonder why you insist there's no pattern when there's an obvious one here? Same thing with Stage 4 bosses having different attacks depending on your character selection, or stage 5 bosses having bullet-affecting gimmicks. ZUN dropped the pattern after MoF, though.

Stage 1 takes place over Misty Lake, Cirno's usual hangout. Pretty simple connection right there.

Also Fridge Logic. The Misty Lake is the only plausible location in Gensokyo for a mermaid to live peacefully without being known.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on June 07, 2013, 01:24:46 pm
I can side with Limian's post about the mentioning of Human-ish players being playable due to the fact Touhou is mostly about kicking Youkai and other non-humans causing trouble. Since it is based on stories. If you're purely judging the appearance of girls / playable characters based on numbers and order of stages (like in some posts done), you haven't been paying attention to Touhou story lines/plots.

You're mentioning why Youmu is in PoFV. Well, who knows. Have you forgotten why Sakuya is in PCB? Even if those are silly plots (Sakuya going out to prevent SDM from starving) they remain ZUN-logic. A "reason" to go handle the unprecedented affair. Youmu had some reason according to ZUN to be in PoFV. And apparently Tewi as well. Why would Reisen, Shou or Rin be a playable character if it doesn't involve them in a "ZUN logical way". Patterns are fine, but they are not going to confirm a girl appearing in the next series. Why isn't Sanae in DDC? DDC so far sounds like a typical "Youkais causing trouble, need to kick their ass" which falls in the interest zone of Sanae (Youkai extermination is fun thing from UFO).


Besides, I just realise this: why are we discussing this? Shouldn't we be discussing the possible enemy Youkais for the full game? Or possible Ex stage? I think we already have dialogue translations and prologue.

Ah well I guess it makes things less boring on a friday afternoon :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 07, 2013, 01:34:57 pm
I suppose the question becomes whether or not ZUN wants to give the final boss a human subordinate, like he used to be fond of doing. Although I believe the actual explanation for that was that he wanted to make a game with human-youkai partner pairs (IN) and used EoSD and PCB as a means of introducing enough characters for it. And naturally he needed humans for the human-halves of the partnerships. Since then he hasn't introduced very many human bosses at all, other than Sanae.

On the other hand, in terms of "going back to tradition" it might be possible.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on June 07, 2013, 01:45:13 pm
Has anyone noticed this?
(http://i44.tinypic.com/otffjd.png)

And the epileptic effect when you pchunn. Probably Stage 6 boss is related to that thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 07, 2013, 04:12:11 pm
Has anyone noticed this?
(http://i44.tinypic.com/otffjd.png)

And the epileptic effect when you pchunn. Probably Stage 6 boss is related to that thing.
I'm not sure what that arrow is pointing too. The spiral? I'm not sure. I think that might just be a stylistic choice by ZUN. I also don't think the death effect has any relation to the final boss either. The thing is that I'm not sure what the death effect is in the canon. Do Reimu and Marisa actually explode and appear back at the bottom of the screen? Probably not. "death" is just a mechanic in the game, and not actually indicative of anything happening in the canon. 

Besides, I just realise this: why are we discussing this? Shouldn't we be discussing the possible enemy Youkais for the full game? Or possible Ex stage? I think we already have dialogue translations and prologue.
This sounds like a very good use of our time, and I like True Shadow's list there. I'll read it over.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on June 07, 2013, 06:37:22 pm
Well, again, I'm not sure if anyone has discussed this already, but what is everyones opinion about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_EGRwLQer8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_EGRwLQer8)
Would bombing be broken with the current score system?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on June 07, 2013, 10:10:41 pm
As that is, yes.

I haven't played the game yet, but from what I've seen, ZUN has created another suicide-and-bomb centered scoring system, which is fairly disappointing. It's very possible that he'll nerf MarisaB's bomb, but I don't think he'll do more than that. Bombspamming will be the heart of this game's scoring system. I'm not really surprised, and I wasn't planning on playing the game anyway. It just bugs me to see ZUN making games like that for no apparent reason.

At least the characters and music seem pretty awesome so far.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on June 07, 2013, 10:48:59 pm
I don't know if this is mentioned yet. but would it be possible to have a Mirror Youkai as the final boss?
Notice the big mirror on the Main screen. And in that mirror, that figure doesn't look like Reimu at the top. The figure in the mirror has a darker shade too.
And notice how in the mirror, only the rod part of the Gohei is showing. Is it a Shapeshifter? And would it mean that if you use Reimu A, the Shapeshifter will be Reimu , like a different boss for each player and their type.
And the name "Eastern Castle of Shining Needle" is kind of a spoiler.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Avakyon on June 07, 2013, 10:55:49 pm
Suicide/bomb systems aren't strictly bad on their own. EoSD scoring (which is actually based on a glitch anyway) has no major issues. GFW was death central but still managed to create an enjoyable system too. But the reason for that is several factors saving it. First, finishing with max lives is very important, which prevents another 10+ suicides from entering the route (unknown if DDC will have this). Secondly, the bomb return for death is 25% of one bomb. In DDC, each death returns 3 bombs, which is equivalent to 12 GFW deaths. That's a problem given the game also has no known anti-bomb/suicide mechanics. MoF prevented a use for such things by reducing PIV (something that would probably be welcomed to make a return...), bosses point items became power when not at full and other games like SA had high clear bonus. But like seen previously, the current resource requirements are possible to change as I assume they are just estimates of what will be required. Changing at least that will help something.

Apart from that I think it also has a problem with the bomb autocollect. It seems counter-intuitive to make a system of risky PoCing, then give the player a means to say "nope I'll just stay down here thank you" and for some characters, give them enough invincibility to make a safe trip for another collection. Then again, DDC is basically built over TD which had the exact same issue (system of risky boss shotgunning, take it away by making player almost constantly invincible) so maybe the series will be cursed until ZUN makes a new engine.

In any case, I'm pretty satisfied as long as there will be one enjoyable shot... thankfully it seems like they play fairly differently to each other so I just might get that.

(Forgot to add, surely Marisa B will be fixed, if not I will lose faith entirely. Nobody in their right mind would think she's fine the way she is.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 08, 2013, 02:47:49 am
I don't know if this is mentioned yet. but would it be possible to have a Mirror Youkai as the final boss?
Notice the big mirror on the Main screen. And in that mirror, that figure doesn't look like Reimu at the top. The figure in the mirror has a darker shade too.
And notice how in the mirror, only the rod part of the Gohei is showing. Is it a Shapeshifter? And would it mean that if you use Reimu A, the Shapeshifter will be Reimu , like a different boss for each player and their type.
And the name "Eastern Castle of Shining Needle" is kind of a spoiler.
I think a mirror youkai could be a pretty cool thing. I would be very fine if that became a theme here.
The mirror on the main page is pretty cool. I'm pretty sure that is Reimu's reflection but warped slightly. The reflection has also been flipped. Also, with the difficulties corresponding to gem stones, and gemstones being shiny... that's kinda like a reflection... which is something yous see in a mirror. It all kinda works.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rizado on June 08, 2013, 04:36:12 am
Nobody in their right mind would think she's fine the way she is.
But... I... Think so...
Well, you can actually not use bombs at all if they are glitchy for you. I have no problem with MarisaB bomb because it's fun  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Error on June 08, 2013, 08:52:04 am
Seeing as the game titles tend to relate to the final boss in some way...
Perhaps the final boss will be dual natured in some way?
Futakuchi-onna comes to mind, but there might be something that would fit better.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 08, 2013, 10:02:10 am
Seeing as the game titles tend to relate to the final boss in some way...
Perhaps the final boss will be dual natured in some way?
Futakuchi-onna comes to mind, but there might be something that would fit better.
This relationship is so forced to be called as such that I'd ignore it in final boss guessing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 08, 2013, 03:36:41 pm
Suicide/bomb systems aren't strictly bad on their own. EoSD scoring (which is actually based on a glitch anyway) has no major issues. GFW was death central but still managed to create an enjoyable system too. But the reason for that is several factors saving it. First, finishing with max lives is very important, which prevents another 10+ suicides from entering the route (unknown if DDC will have this). Secondly, the bomb return for death is 25% of one bomb. In DDC, each death returns 3 bombs, which is equivalent to 12 GFW deaths. That's a problem given the game also has no known anti-bomb/suicide mechanics.

Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying here, but a death in DDC costs you two bombs, and gives you three bomb fragments. You don't gain bombs by dying in DDC.

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on June 08, 2013, 04:51:32 pm
Story being rebelling weapons and the mirror theme showing up, maybe the final boss (or ex-boss) could be something about natural spirits? Like how some believe about everything in the world having its own spirit (or god).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 08, 2013, 05:00:03 pm
Story being rebelling weapons and the mirror theme showing up, maybe the final boss (or ex-boss) could be something about natural spirits? Like how some believe about everything in the world having its own spirit (or god).
How does the mirror theme fit into that? Also doesn't Shinto say everything has it's own spirit?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on June 08, 2013, 05:15:56 pm
Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying here, but a death in DDC costs you two bombs, and gives you three bomb fragments. You don't gain bombs by dying in DDC.
Assuming you die with no bombs in stock, you don't lose any, and you get three when you respawn. I'm not sure what you mean by it costing two, unless that has something to do with dying with lots of bombs, as opposed to none, which is what Feenixtrite was talking about.

So say you have no bombs left, you commit suicide, now you have three.

But anyway, I agree, bombs being used for score aren't intrinsically a bad thing. Bombing for bullet cancel items for instance doesn't really hurt the gameplay, I don't think. It's when they usurp the primary system itself that they're stupid. In this case, they ruin the whole POC thing by letting you collect the items from anywhere, at any time, at the touch of a button. Then they reward you with more lives so can just suicide for bombs and do it again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 08, 2013, 05:44:00 pm
So say you have no bombs left, you commit suicide, now you have three.

Oh, OK, I totally misunderstood you. You mean when you're out of lives altogether; not when you pichun with more lives available. Which does in fact cost you two bombs. I hadn't noticed this part of the mechanic because I haven't run out of lives in this game.

Bombing for bullet cancel items for instance doesn't really hurt the gameplay, I don't think. It's when they usurp the primary system itself that they're stupid. In this case, they ruin the whole POC thing by letting you collect the items from anywhere, at any time, at the touch of a button. Then they reward you with more lives so can just suicide for bombs and do it again.

Doesn't bombing more or less always result in some massive autocollect? How do bombs even come close to "ruining" the PoC thing? You don't have to bombspam.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on June 08, 2013, 05:48:05 pm
Doesn't bombing more or less always result in some massive autocollect? How do bombs even come close to "ruining" the PoC thing? You don't have to bombspam.
It didn't in SA, UFO and TD, so he had to program it back in

...which is pretty questionable, given the gimmick of the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on June 08, 2013, 05:49:49 pm
He changed it back because of the gimmick, which is the vexing part here.

I'm also pretty sure you always start with 3 bombs after a death, any death.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 08, 2013, 05:51:52 pm
But again, how does this "ruin" the PoC if you make the conscious decision to just ... not bombspam, but use them only when your life is in danger?

By the by, maybe it's just me, but deathbombing seems harder to do in this game. I think that, and losing 2 bombs per death, is a form of balance for the bombing autocollect (which, I might add, I don't remember anyone complaining about before).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on June 08, 2013, 06:06:15 pm
But again, how does this "ruin" the PoC if you make the conscious decision to just ... not bombspam, but use them only when your life is in danger?
It is advantageous for scorerunners to bomb over planning PoC routes.

Actually, to clarify, this isn't super true right now, but if the later stages have more items to collect (like every game in the series so far) it'll be much easier to bombspam for extends and suddenly b-b-b-d-b-b-b-d is a real strategy.

By the by, maybe it's just me, but deathbombing seems harder to do in this game. I think that, and losing 2 bombs per death, is a form of balance for the bombing autocollect (which, I might add, I don't remember anyone complaining about before).
You don't lose two bombs per death. You always start with 3 bombs after a death, along with 0 to 7 bomb pieces that you had before your death. (so if you died with 4 bombs and 7 pieces, you respawn with 3 bombs and 7 pieces, same with 1 bomb and 7 pieces)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on June 08, 2013, 06:17:05 pm
Doesn't bombing more or less always result in some massive autocollect?
You mean in Touhou games in general? They do I suppose, but there's generally been a penalty for using them. PCB, IN, and MoF directly damage your point item value. SA (and MoF) drops your power level so you get power items instead green stars, and has a big clear bonus to discourage suiciding. UFO encourages you not to collect the bombs in the first place, since blue and rainbow UFOs are much better for score. In TD, bombing was a purely rewarding action, so an ideal score run involved bombspamming. DDC likewise has no apparent penalty for bombing. It's only good for you. Though to be fair, the number of them available throughout the game will effect how often you can use them for scoring. As it is they seem extremely plentiful, but ZUN may increase the number of fragments needed, so that's up in the air I guess.

And I guess you can simply choose not to use them if you don't want to, and then in a sense they only "ruin" the scoring if choose to use them that way. I don't think that excuses ZUN's design choices though. Players are going to want to play competitively and all that. The game should be balanced on its own.

edit: cut by a bunch of people. But yeah, you can't really hold back on bombspamming and still play competitively. And then players who are competitive have a lot less to work with when it comes to planning and execution and all that, because the solution to many situations becomes "just bomb."

Making it harder to deathbomb wouldn't balance anything anyway. You're not deathbombing when you bomb for the auto collection, you just bomb when the screen's full of items/bullets. The feature could be removed completely and it would barely effect anything.

another edit:
Actually, to clarify, this isn't super true right now, but if the later stages have more items to collect (like every game in the series so far) it'll be much easier to bombspam for extends and suddenly b-b-b-d-b-b-b-d is a real strategy.
And this, yes. Even survival play is effected when you can use the bombs to easily get life fragments (which is the big deal with MarisaB right now).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on June 08, 2013, 06:21:34 pm
How does the mirror theme fit into that? Also doesn't Shinto say everything has it's own spirit?
Yeah, I haven't really read up on those things, but if everything has its own spirit, I guess someone who can influence it or manipulate it somehow would make it interesting.
The mirror theme was just something I thought of to show the true character behind everything, or something similair.
Since the main theme seems to be corruption, It seemed to make the most sense in my head if something were influencing major spirits  in some way.

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 08, 2013, 06:56:32 pm
You don't lose two bombs per death. You always start with 3 bombs after a death, along with 0 to 7 bomb pieces that you had before your death. (so if you died with 4 bombs and 7 pieces, you respawn with 3 bombs and 7 pieces, same with 1 bomb and 7 pieces)

OK I think we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about losing a life, i.e., to pichun, while still having lives left. This will result in losing two bombs.
Running out of lives seems to be what you're talking about.

The scorerunning point I think is valid with regards to bombs, thanks to more information that has been provided. There ought to be a way to play for score without relying heavily on bombs, and hopefully, that'll be provided.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Polaris on June 08, 2013, 07:04:40 pm
BT is saying that dying resets your bomb count. So if you died with 5 bombs, you'll "lose" two bombs in that your bomb count becomes 3 again. But you'll "gain" two if you died with only one bomb, and so on.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 08, 2013, 07:06:48 pm
Oh the things you learn.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on June 08, 2013, 07:42:12 pm
BT is saying that dying resets your bomb count. So if you died with 5 bombs, you'll "lose" two bombs in that your bomb count becomes 3 again. But you'll "gain" two if you died with only one bomb, and so on.
isnt that like every touhou game ???
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on June 08, 2013, 07:46:13 pm
isnt that like every touhou game ???

I considered saying that but I knew someone else would, and I'd be stealing someone else's post, or something.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on June 08, 2013, 07:46:32 pm
isnt that like every touhou game ???
Some of 'em let you keep your X bombs as long as X is greater than 3, but I forget which. UFO and...? Of course, even when that happens it's "bombs wasted" because you won't be getting those "free" 3 lives upon dying with 0, instead dying and keeping 6 (for example). Better to waste them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 08, 2013, 08:07:41 pm
It didn't in SA, UFO and TD, so he had to program it back in

...which is pretty questionable, given the gimmick of the game.

But in SA using Yukari's bomb fills the graze meter up to the max and it triggers a autocollect at the end. In UFO and TD you can easily move up to the top and back to the bottom.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on June 08, 2013, 08:24:38 pm
Some of 'em let you keep your X bombs as long as X is greater than 3, but I forget which. UFO and...? Of course, even when that happens it's "bombs wasted" because you won't be getting those "free" 3 lives upon dying with 0, instead dying and keeping 6 (for example). Better to waste them.

I think you mean free 3 bombs...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on June 08, 2013, 08:31:43 pm
Yes, I do.

Lives bombs bombs lives deaths pancakes explosions trance.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on June 08, 2013, 09:19:47 pm
isnt that like every touhou game ???
If I recall correctly, in TD you don't lose bombs if you die (but gain if you die while having less than the minimum).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lawence Codye on June 09, 2013, 01:06:39 am
Only thing I had a problem with in regards to the demo was the fps dropping which can't be right as I played every other Touhou game just fine without the lag...
Also noticed that depending on the size for the window you choose before playing the game, full-screen isn't possible & when it is, it is not really full-screen...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: GuppyForce on June 09, 2013, 01:09:12 am
By the by, maybe it's just me, but deathbombing seems harder to do in this game. I think that, and losing 2 bombs per death, is a form of balance for the bombing autocollect (which, I might add, I don't remember anyone complaining about before).
I'm actually deathbombing pretty well in this game. TD was the worst for me for deathbombing
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on June 09, 2013, 01:11:48 am
Only thing I had a problem with in regards to the demo was the fps dropping which can't be right as I played every other Touhou game just fine without the lag...
Also noticed that depending on the size for the window you choose before playing the game, full-screen isn't possible & when it is, it is not really full-screen...

Have you tried setting the game settings to Fast instead of automatic? that worked for me. try it out if you haven't.
It's the bottom most option, the one labelled 高速 if you are in doubt.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 09, 2013, 01:33:31 am
Only thing I had a problem with in regards to the demo was the fps dropping which can't be right as I played every other Touhou game just fine without the lag...
Also noticed that depending on the size for the window you choose before playing the game, full-screen isn't possible & when it is, it is not really full-screen...

The game will crash if you full screen in a resolution your monitor doesn't support. My laptop doesn't support the highest resolution the games offer so it crashes if I go full screen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on June 09, 2013, 08:52:37 am
Only thing I had a problem with in regards to the demo was the fps dropping which can't be right as I played every other Touhou game just fine without the lag...
Also noticed that depending on the size for the window you choose before playing the game, full-screen isn't possible & when it is, it is not really full-screen...
Only thing I remember doing was putting the resolution at the lowest, but then I still got fps drop during the charge effect and the stage 2 background.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: GuppyForce on June 09, 2013, 11:08:51 am
The game will crash if you full screen in a resolution your monitor doesn't support. My laptop doesn't support the highest resolution the games offer so it crashes if I go full screen.
Ah that explains it. For some reason it lags consistently unless my charger is plugger too (It's the only touhou game to do this). HM outright overheats my laptop to crash point (wtf)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on June 09, 2013, 12:26:02 pm
Ah that explains it. For some reason it lags consistently unless my charger is plugger too (It's the only touhou game to do this). HM outright overheats my laptop to crash point (wtf)

Probably need to change your power plan. On laptops when the battery level reaches a certain point it will slow down the cpu to save battery. But even then a Touhou game isn't cpu heavy at all. Especially if you have anything from the Core i series.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on June 09, 2013, 04:05:43 pm
Have you tried setting the game settings to Fast instead of automatic? that worked for me. try it out if you haven't.
It's the bottom most option, the one labelled 高速 if you are in doubt.
Okay, that got rid of all my lag. Thank you (even if it wasn't directed to me).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on June 09, 2013, 04:10:06 pm
Regarding this bomb discussion and scoring, there was a pretty smart solution he had developed himself a long time ago. Let's go back to the dreaded PC98 Era!

Back then in Mystic Square you were scoring with items and collecting them as at far at the top of screen as possible for the maximum point bonus. For each item you gathered your "item bar" for a lack of a better term increased and for each time it increased the range at which you received the maximum bonus for items increased too. With the maximum of that item bar it was possible to receive the maximum item value somewhere below the middle of the screen. Now, if someone bombed it still auto collected all items, but using a bomb or dying almost completely emptied the item bar and this made scoring itself harder. On that note, it took roughly two of six levels of the game to fill the item bar to the maximum, so losing it was quite harsh.

Now, if that feature was reimplemented in DDC *and* the item bar would strongly affect the item value (such as item display bar max = item value x4), then there would be a direct demerit to death bombing. In fact it would discourage both, bombing and dying. Deathbombing would be useful for survival but not scoring.


Edit: Little correction - It was not about POCing in Mystic Square.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 09, 2013, 11:13:02 pm
Going back to the Revisiting previous games theory - I think Stage 2 really is suppose to represent PCB. Obviously it takes place near the human village (And can't go all the way to Hakugokurou.) But the stage puts heavy significance as the fact that it takes place in a resting point under a large tree. Even one of the Dialogs (I think Marisa's) Makes mention of something like "I thought only that ghost could sleep under the willows like this."

Preedit: I suppose it's just "Phantoms" but I still feel it's suppose to be a symbolic reference to Yuyuko and Saigyou.
In any case, I don't think they're literally going to go from place to place, but I do feel like it's leading you around the previous games.

I'm also really suspicious about the black power that gathers when youkai appear/charge up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 11, 2013, 10:26:32 am
Regarding this bomb discussion and scoring, there was a pretty smart solution he had developed himself a long time ago.

Is that solution "graze, graze and graze some more"? Because that's the solution I found. Sekibanki is especially ripe for a lot of hilarious graze-whoring.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on June 13, 2013, 02:50:22 am
The post implies that the solution was to add a penalty for dying or bombing.

This was done in:
- Mystic Square (where it's quite difficult to recover your dream bonus once it decreases, effectively meaning a scorerun's primary goal is not dying or bombing)
- Perfect Cherry Blossom (where the penalty is smaller, but noticeable if you die a lot to the same boss)
- Mountain of Faith (dying penalty is huge, bombing isn't but bosses drop more point items if you're at 5 power)
Also IN, but it was negligible there (dying or deathbombing costs you around 500 time orbs). Bombing has no scoring benefit in that game, though, aside from auto-collecting in some parts of stage 4.

I'm hoping DDC will have a high stage 6 clear bonus, anyway. With the current system, it's the clear bonus that will make the difference between eight extra scoring suicides or not (compare clear bonuses in UFO/TD/EoSD with those in PCB/IN/MoF/SA/GFW). If it's sufficiently high (perhaps 50 million per life?), the resulting gameplay would be more like GFW, where you can afford to die sometimes, but finishing with maximum lives would still be a top priority.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on June 13, 2013, 03:09:43 am
You know, I actually have more of a problem with the fact that bullets cancelled from bombs can increase your base Point value by rather significant amounts. It gets rid of so much incentive for grazing outside of obvious attacks like Wakasagihime's first spell. Sure, a high clear bonus can also help deter bomb usage, but really, bombing doesn't need to be this lucrative on its own.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on June 13, 2013, 04:51:52 am
Hmm... that reminds me, among Touhou games with adjustable point item value, it seems DDC is the first since LLS where the scoring gimmick doesn't increase PIV directly (or decrease it, in the case of MoF's faith system). The dream bonus, borders, time orbs, faith system, communication gauge, UFO tokens (if collected during a UFO summon), and trance system all directly affect the PIV.

Perhaps it would have been better if auto-collect bonuses added to the base PIV by a few hundred to a few thousand, instead of (or in addition to?) giving a direct multiplier? (And with canceled bullet value reduced during bombs, like EoSD tried to do?) Not that we can expect that large of a change to occur.

Edit: Though that still wouldn't make the stage portions any less bomb-reliant. LLS-style scoring (bomb the stages for point multipliers, conserve resources during the bosses) is all right, but the POC system has more potential than that...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TrueShadow on June 18, 2013, 05:28:53 am
By the way, didn't ZUN state somewhere that he's planning to reveal Sakuya's past in future games? Maybe this new arc will revolve around that?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on June 18, 2013, 08:28:17 am
Where'd he say that?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AJS on June 18, 2013, 08:35:30 am
Quote from: ZUN
I blurred the finer details of Sakuya and Remilia's settings because I had planned to publicize
those somewhere eventually, but that occasion never arose (laugh)

What I will say is, Sakuya isn't from Gensokyo.
Sakuya Izayoi is a name given to her by Remilia, and her real name is different.

Anything else, I plan to reveal later, so for now, I'll keep my secrets.  (laugh)
From translations of ZUN's e-mail responses to fan questions here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails) on the Touhou Wiki.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on June 18, 2013, 10:33:12 am
I think the topic would be better discussed on a manga or book instead of a main game, as it'd otherwise put the bulk of the story in her route alone (unless he expands on Reimu and Marisa's past as well, I suppose).

At any rate, the story doesn't really seems to be going that way.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on June 19, 2013, 08:06:40 pm
I think the topic would be better discussed on a manga or book instead of a main game, as it'd otherwise put the bulk of the story in her route alone (unless he expands on Reimu and Marisa's past as well, I suppose).

At any rate, the story doesn't really seems to be going that way.
Its not like it has to be the focus of the game, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on June 19, 2013, 09:52:10 pm
Its not like it has to be the focus of the game, though.
The games don't really have room for sub-plots.

They barely have room for the main plot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on June 20, 2013, 01:16:39 am
Everything since PCB has been mostly subplot. Not sure where you're getting that idea from.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on June 20, 2013, 01:27:39 am
Everything since PCB has been mostly subplot. Not sure where you're getting that idea from.

What do you mean?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on June 20, 2013, 02:55:04 am
Everything since PCB has been mostly subplot. Not sure where you're getting that idea from.
What makes PCB any more relevant?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on June 20, 2013, 03:39:15 am
Not sure if I'm wording this right, but I think he means that the major characters from PCB onward have had deeper backstories, more references involved, and even dedicated arcs in games and supplementary materials.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lawence Codye on June 26, 2013, 01:20:45 am
Have you tried setting the game settings to Fast instead of automatic? that worked for me. try it out if you haven't.
It's the bottom most option, the one labelled 高速 if you are in doubt.

I'll try this out & see how it goes, I just hate not being able to play through the game without assistance or hindrance from the halved FPS...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on June 26, 2013, 01:41:32 am
For those with not-so-severe lag, I use a program called Razer Game Booster which temporarily shuts down programs to boost performance. DDC ran at around late 40s-early 50s and now runs at a flawless 60 FPS.

Link: http://www.razerzone.com/gamebooster
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lawence Codye on June 29, 2013, 12:27:06 am
Have you tried setting the game settings to Fast instead of automatic? that worked for me. try it out if you haven't.
It's the bottom most option, the one labelled 高速 if you are in doubt.
This worked wonders up until stage 3 & for half of it's boss fight which is good enough, thanks...

Also, I noticed the music in this Touhou game is a bit more similar to what I would expect to hear in other SHMUPS, mainly stage 2 & it's boss' theme.  I am also really REALLY hating about 3 to 4 of the shot types among the 6 of them I mean the only one I like a whole lot is Sakuya's first shot type.  It's like pretty much all of them either have no range or lacking in power more so then they should.  Reimu's second shot type is noticeably weaker then I remember it being, I don't know.  I liked the 1st stage & boss of the stage very much game play wise & same with the 3rd stage & it's boss but I didn't like either the second stage or it's boss too much game play wise.  This is from my experience in Normal & Hard difficulty though, I don't even give easy a go what so ever anymore since SA & Lunatic is better watched then ventured for me so can't wait until this demo is updated...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on July 01, 2013, 10:56:32 am
That's ridiculous. I installed windows and got flawless 60 FPS. Even though right now I use a crappy GPU (I lent mine for some time). So I guess, it's wine who has problems with this game, not my computer like I thought before.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 01, 2013, 02:01:31 pm
If the incidents on TH14 has been solved, what are you expecting on TH15?

i am hoping TH15 will be the last Touhou windows era game, then TH16 will be windows 9 era, Future Reimu became a God in casual clothes while Marisa died and revived as an Angel.
Windows 9 era will hint about the return of PC-98 characters like Mima while Windows era characters will stay and do nothing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Dark Kitsune on July 01, 2013, 04:13:22 pm
Here's my ideas on DDC's plot and meaning: (probably not too original)

There has been a lot of talk about the whole "reflection" theme with DDC so far.
The name suggests treachery, but the "double dealing" can also be linked with mirrors, like how one may appear to be working one way (the reflection you see), but actually be secretly working another way (their actual appearance; the flipped image of their reflection). And people's reflections have long been linked with their souls. Maybe something is sort of capturing and corrupting the youkai's souls through their reflection.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 01, 2013, 04:16:36 pm
I say it before and I'll say it once again:

Ungaikyo (Mirror Tsukumogami) or Doppelganger (To go with the current Western Monsters stuff) is gonna be the Final Boss, that or the Ex.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on July 01, 2013, 07:23:47 pm
If the incidents on TH14 has been solved, what are you expecting on TH15?

i am hoping TH15 will be the last Touhou windows era game, then TH16 will be windows 9 era,

Wat?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 01, 2013, 08:55:53 pm
Wat?

Because Touhou needs a fresh new start after TH15, i hope Reimu and Marisa will change their appearance.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on July 01, 2013, 08:58:55 pm
Maybe you should wait on the theory making until after TH14 itself actually comes out? :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on July 01, 2013, 09:17:02 pm
Because Touhou needs a fresh new start after TH15, i hope Reimu and Marisa will change their appearance.
You do realize what he was highlighting in your post, correct?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: PhantomSong on July 01, 2013, 09:25:36 pm
If the incidents on TH14 has been solved, what are you expecting on TH15?

i am hoping TH15 will be the last Touhou windows era game, then TH16 will be windows 9 era, Future Reimu became a God in casual clothes while Marisa died and revived as an Angel.
Windows 9 era will hint about the return of PC-98 characters like Mima while Windows era characters will stay and do nothing.
Marisa? Angel? Windows 9? WAT?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on July 01, 2013, 09:59:46 pm
Marisa? Angel?
technically that already happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCuxWD2GOoA#t=2m)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 02, 2013, 03:58:37 am
technically that already happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCuxWD2GOoA#t=2m)

Seihou takes place in 50+ years from the future, just maybe.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on July 03, 2013, 06:02:18 am
technically that already happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCuxWD2GOoA#t=2m)

Don't remind me of that game. I can't play it because Windows 7 and 8 requires DDA which is what's making the game run slow and the OS forbids disabling it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 03, 2013, 06:14:10 am
This game is kind of hard.
I like to think of it this way:
PCB
IN
TD
MoF
DDC
EoSD
UFO
SA
Double Dealing Character is pretty high up on the list. I think it's to make up for the lack of gimmicks.
I've also read something about a gimmick in this topic?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on July 03, 2013, 06:21:24 am
I thought DDC was kinda easy.(until stage 3)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 03, 2013, 07:38:36 am
Double Dealing Character is pretty high up on the list. I think it's to make up for the lack of gimmicks.
I've also read something about a gimmick in this topic?

There is a gimmick. It involves the PoC (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Double_Dealing_Character/Gameplay#Item_Collection_Bonus).

Depending on how many items you gather at the PoC, you can you either get a Bomb piece or a Life piece.

I thought DDC was kinda easy.(until stage 3)

After stage 3 and Kagerou's difficulty, I'm... worried about what is coming next, to be honest.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 03, 2013, 12:19:10 pm
Yeah, for real. A game doesn't shovel resources at you for the first 3 stages only to get easier from 4 onwards. Or I doubt DDC will anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on July 03, 2013, 12:39:26 pm
Yeah, for real. A game doesn't shovel resources at you for the first 3 stages only to get easier from 4 onwards. Or I doubt DDC will anyway.
Well it didn't get easier per se, but TD's difficulty (on Lunatic at least) peaked at Stage 3 and overall didn't get any harder past that. ZUN's done something like that before, but honestly we'll need to wait for DDC's full version before we can judge how prone to bombing it is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 03, 2013, 02:23:39 pm
On the other hand, TD's first three stages don't shower you with resources the way DDC does. That's why I'm bracing for impact here.

As you say, we won't know before the full game, but the totally groundless feeling I'm getting thus far from DDC is "here, have a crapload of lives and bombs - you'll need them!" Just my intuition, nothing more.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 03, 2013, 02:57:46 pm
My intuition says some thing different to me.

Like, I can hear ZUN's thoughts, it'll be like... "I'll nerf Kagerou for the full game, she turned out to be too hard. I don't play Lunatic myself so i don't really test these things but it's really challenging people and that wasn't intended already in stage 3 so she'll definitely be nerfed. Scoring and resources looks fine but MarisaB should probably be nerfed a bit too. Then we'll just make Stage 4,5 and 6 be slightly more complicated Sekibankis and shower people with lives so that my wife can feel good about clearing a shmup on the hardest mode."

Or something like that. Yeah, TD scepticism hasn't withdrawn yet.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 03, 2013, 03:10:40 pm
so that my wife can feel good about clearing a shmup on the hardest mode.

Stay classy bro.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 03, 2013, 05:45:03 pm
The wife in this case is a metaphor but yeah you are right. I am sorry, bad metaphor.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 03, 2013, 06:24:06 pm
Actually as I think of it, didn't ZUN mention her being an Easy Mode player? If so, that's one thing we have in common.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kirin no Sora on July 03, 2013, 07:47:31 pm
On the other hand, TD's first three stages don't shower you with resources the way DDC does. That's why I'm bracing for impact here.

As you say, we won't know before the full game, but the totally groundless feeling I'm getting thus far from DDC is "here, have a crapload of lives and bombs - you'll need them!" Just my intuition, nothing more.

Tengukami, I think that you may be onto something there. Because if you're right, then ZUN is not going to nerf anyone, and Kagerou is only a taste of how the rest of the game will be, which is going to sting once the full game comes out and people try their hand on Stage 4, which is where most Touhou games go "Okay, enough with the kid gloves. Let's play for real now.", and start eating up bombs and lives like it's going out of style.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 03, 2013, 07:51:41 pm
I wonder if the fourth boss will be different for each character, like EoSD, PCB, and IN. It is to make a player play all three scenarios.
Maybe if that comes true, the fifth boss will have a bullet affecting gimmick.
Sakuya with her time stopping ability
Youmu with her sword slash ability, also slows down time.
Reisen with the illusion ability.
These will probably not come true, but it's worth a shot.

I think DDC is hard because I can't beat stage 2 after so many attempts.
The second boss creeps me out too. Her head follows you...
And, it seems like all the bosses are of new species. They also seem to have a more japanese-like name. I thought this since TD. Not to be racist. No offense to those people.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 03, 2013, 09:22:47 pm
Because if you're right, then ZUN is not going to nerf anyone, and Kagerou is only a taste of how the rest of the game will be, which is going to sting once the full game comes out and people try their hand on Stage 4, which is where most Touhou games go "Okay, enough with the kid gloves. Let's play for real now.", and start eating up bombs and lives like it's going out of style.

I sincerely hope this is true. I definitely hope Kagerou is only a taste of things to come!

They also seem to have a more japanese-like name. I thought this since TD. Not to be racist. No offense to those people.

What do you mean by this? Aside from the occasional character with a non-japanese name (mostly from 6 and 7) pretty much all Touhou characters have Japanese names.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 04, 2013, 08:59:17 pm
They are more confusing in how it's pronounced.
Touhou 12 had names like Shou, Byakuren, Ichirin which I found easy to remember because they had less two letter syllables. Shou. I-chi-rin. Bya-ku-ren.
Then Touhou 13 got names like Mononobe, Toyosatomimi which I find harder to remember. Each syllable basically consisted of two letters. Mo-no-no-be. To-yo-sa-to-mi-mi.
It's not really, more japanese, it's just more confusing and harder to remember as the games go on.
I can't remember any of Touhou 14's character, after seeing the names for so many times.

And I hope there is no Window 9 era. I'm fine with ZUN staying in the window era.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 04, 2013, 09:04:27 pm
I can't remember any of Touhou 14's character, after seeing the names for so many times.

I remember them all except Sekibankis last name. Memorize harder :V

EDIT: Apparently because she doesn't have any. Forgot that part too. Three of four characters doesn't even have last names Lavalake. Come on now!  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 04, 2013, 11:36:04 pm
Oh yeah. Maybe it's just the fandom doesn't have much of these characters yet.
Now that I think about it. I seem to have remembered the second and third boss' first name.
I related Kagerou with Kaguya, because they both have something to do with the moon, and their names are kind of alike.
I related Sekibanki's name with Kouichi Sakakibara from the "Another" anime, because his last same and her first sound kind of alike, in my opinion.
I just need to remember Wakasagihime's.

Otherwise, I hope the next 3 bosses have two forms. A western form, and a japanese form. Like Keine, except with cultures. It goes along the lines of the theory of two cultures in this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sparen on July 05, 2013, 12:17:38 pm
Relating to alternate routes, I have a feeling that the choice of Shottype A or B (weapon or no weapon) will have an effect as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 05, 2013, 12:24:54 pm
And I hope there is no Window 9 era. I'm fine with ZUN staying in the window era.

I was under the impression he wasn't making new games custom fine-tuned to each iteration of the Windows operating system; there's PC-98, and then just Windows.

This "Windows 9" you mention does sound troubling. If 8 is for tablets, what will 9 be for?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on July 05, 2013, 01:05:03 pm
This "Windows 9" you mention does sound troubling. If 8 is for tablets, what will 9 be for?

With Windows 9 you take a corkscrew, bore a small hole into the corner of your head, and plug in a USB stick carrying the Touhou 19.5 demo.

Long live the new flesh.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sparen on July 05, 2013, 01:06:56 pm
Well, there's already MacOSX 9 Maverick which focuses on energy efficiency, speed (Safari is now 30x faster than Google Chrome, I think), and new file directory systems that feature tags., so Windows will be forced to respond with an even more streamlined OS. Also, I think that in a few years, the entire directory system will be changed, so that will require ZUN to use a new file system in order to fully utilize the new graphics, etc.

...So maybe the Windows 9 era WILL be different (then again, this is all conjecture).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 05, 2013, 06:28:45 pm
I like how the conversation is turning into a Window 9 Era conversation. -Sarcasm-

I went back and found a timeline of release dates of games. I just took notice of something.
Touhou 5 ~ 6 had a break in between.
Switching the era.
Environment Affecting theme starts.

Touhou 9 ~ 10 had a break in between.
Starting from scratch.
Religion theme starts.

Touhou 13 ~ 14 has a break in between.
I'm pretty sure this means the whole game has started from scratch.
Possibly, a new theme starts. Anyone think they know what this new theme is?

I'm pretty sure if there is a theme, ZUN won't switch to another era in the middle of the theme.
Plus, games usually get a difficulty curve on stage 4. It started in stage 3 now? Or is there a even bigger difficulty curve?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on July 05, 2013, 06:56:18 pm
This "Windows 9" you mention does sound troubling. If 8 is for tablets, what will 9 be for?

Tablets as well. M$ has a nasty habit of making releases of the "next big thing" really crappy then releasing a tolerable successor a couple of years later.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on July 05, 2013, 07:24:06 pm
Touhou 13 ~ 14 has a break in between.
I'm pretty sure this means the whole game has started from scratch.
Possibly, a new theme starts. Anyone think they know what this new theme is?

No, the engine remained mostly as it was in 10D, there was no rewriting from scratch like in other cases.

Also, you can say that there was also a break between Touhou 12 ~ 13 (decimal-numbered games don't count since they don't contribute anything to the "main arc"), so I think timeline doesn't matter.

New theme is a possibility, though. I remember someone suggesting there will be a "tsukumogami arc" from now on.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on July 05, 2013, 07:46:08 pm
UFO, TD, and DDC each had two-year intervals between their releases, but I don't see any indication of "era changes" in those periods. TD still kept to the religious theme of recent games, and DDC's "late" release is mostly likely because ZUN wanted to spend time with his wife (perfectly understandable). Also, neither game was redesigned from scratch, as others have mentioned.

Though there might be merit to the idea that the story arc might change, as HM seems designed as a culmination of all the religious forces that have been introduced lately (don't quote me on that though, I haven't looked into the game's final story yet).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 05, 2013, 08:19:39 pm
The only thing was, there were 3 games between UFO and TD. That also takes time and makes up for the two year break.
But then again... HM was released 2 years after TD. So I don't know.
And could be for the reason of spending time with his wife.
But I'm pretty sure this is not a religious theme anymore.

But, what about the difficulty curve of stage 3? Does it replace stage 4 or is there a bigger one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on July 05, 2013, 08:55:20 pm
But, what about the difficulty curve of stage 3? Does it replace stage 4 or is there a bigger one.

Don't underestimate ZUN. He can make the rest of the game so hard that even stage 3 will seem like a relaxing walk in the park.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on July 05, 2013, 10:02:56 pm
And I hope there is no Window 9 era. I'm fine with ZUN staying in the window era.

That doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 06, 2013, 04:07:26 am
I like how the conversation is turning into a Window 9 Era conversation. -Sarcasm-

I went back and found a timeline of release dates of games. I just took notice of something.
Touhou 5 ~ 6 had a break in between.
Switching the era.
Environment Affecting theme starts.

Touhou 9 ~ 10 had a break in between.
Starting from scratch.
Religion theme starts.

Touhou 13 ~ 14 has a break in between.
I'm pretty sure this means the whole game has started from scratch.
Possibly, a new theme starts. Anyone think they know what this new theme is?


TH01-05 - Dreadful PC-98 era
TH06-09 - Gensokyo`s entire environment era
TH10-13.5 - Great Religion Wars era
TH14-15 - The Last Rebellion (Reimu and Marisa dies after TH15)

ZUN is already married and he is getting old, after he made TH15, He must sell his Touhou Franchise to Amusement Makers because he doesn`t want his life to be complicated about his wife and games, so this is why he cares more about his wife until they have their son/daughter.

TH16 is about the new era and owned by Amusement Makers, PC-98 characters will return, Windows era characters is still active but they don`t show up.
Reimu turned into God with casual clothes after her death in TH15, Marisa turned into an Angel with pretty clothes after her death in TH15.

The game plot for the new era of TH16 and above is about God Reimu and Angel Marisa will go outside of Gensokyo to exterminate all Youkai all around Japan until the Youkais will go extinct.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kirin no Sora on July 06, 2013, 04:49:16 am
TH01-05 - Dreadful PC-98 era
TH06-09 - Gensokyo`s entire environment era
TH10-13.5 - Great Religion Wars era
TH14-15 - The Last Rebellion (Reimu and Marisa dies after TH15)

ZUN is already married and he is getting old, after he made TH15, He must sell his Touhou Franchise to Amusement Makers because he doesn`t want his life to be complicated about his wife and games, so this is why he cares more about his wife until they have their son/daughter.

TH16 is about the new era and owned by Amusement Makers, PC-98 characters will return, Windows era characters is still active but they don`t show up.
Reimu turned into God with casual clothes after her death in TH15, Marisa turned into an Angel with pretty clothes after her death in TH15.

The game plot for the new era of TH16 and above is about God Reimu and Angel Marisa will go outside of Gensokyo to exterminate all Youkai all around Japan until the Youkais will go extinct.

what. ...just, what.

There are no words to describe what has been said.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: LadyScarlet on July 06, 2013, 05:08:26 am
TH01-05 - Dreadful PC-98 era
TH06-09 - Gensokyo`s entire environment era
TH10-13.5 - Great Religion Wars era
TH14-15 - The Last Rebellion (Reimu and Marisa dies after TH15)

ZUN is already married and he is getting old, after he made TH15, He must sell his Touhou Franchise to Amusement Makers because he doesn`t want his life to be complicated about his wife and games, so this is why he cares more about his wife until they have their son/daughter.

TH16 is about the new era and owned by Amusement Makers, PC-98 characters will return, Windows era characters is still active but they don`t show up.
Reimu turned into God with casual clothes after her death in TH15, Marisa turned into an Angel with pretty clothes after her death in TH15.

The game plot for the new era of TH16 and above is about God Reimu and Angel Marisa will go outside of Gensokyo to exterminate all Youkai all around Japan until the Youkais will go extinct.
EXCLUSIVE CONCEPT ART OF GOD REIMU AND ANGEL MARISA
(http://i43.tinypic.com/npnio8.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jana on July 06, 2013, 06:38:04 am
<snip>

Amusement Makers is a college club.

Why would you ever think that someone would make a Touhou game about youkai going extinct anyway? The entire point of Gensokyo is that youkai can live relatively peacefully, separate from the outside world.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Piranha on July 06, 2013, 07:45:51 am

Am I missing a joke here?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on July 06, 2013, 08:05:14 am
You are all talking about Kagerou being such a sudden difficulty spike, but I don't really feel it. If there is a stage 3 boss that turned up the difficulty a lot from previous stage I think about Keine but not really anybody else. Her nonspells where really clustered, her final spell very claustrophobic.... actually everything about her attacks was really dense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 06, 2013, 03:01:50 pm
Amusement Makers is a college club.

Why would you ever think that someone would make a Touhou game about youkai going extinct anyway? The entire point of Gensokyo is that youkai can live relatively peacefully, separate from the outside world.

Oh i get it, then ZUN will sell touhou franchise to DANGOYA (the one who made Kekkai Gensou Rokukyou Mythical Mirror).

For the new era of Touhou
God Reimu can manipulate the boundaries anywhere (like Yukari`s ability), light energy shape-shifting ability and Spell card mixer.
Angel Marisa can control 10 mini-hakero flying around and her master spark is much bigger than ever, also her magic ability is similar to Sariel and Gengetsu.
Future Sakuya is a vampire hunter, her knives can shoot lasers while flying like funnels, if she can`t control her knives properly, it may explode in impact.
Future Youmu wears a high school uniform, she is a sword collector, she can summon 100,000 swords (Just like Gates of Babylon from Fate anime series).
Future Sanae is so casual and her new spellcards is all about Christian bible references.

Everytime they kill every single Youkai, Dead youkai will be reborn into human again, Good youkai will be sent to Gensokyo while Bad youkai will be killed.
Generic enemies are no longer small fairies, Walking Onis and Generic random small youkai will become the new generic enemies.
The final destination of their journey will be Kyoto, the place were indestructible overpowered Youkai live.

Konngara, Fake Amaterasu and Lilith will be the last final boss for the new era of touhou.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 06, 2013, 04:14:33 pm
Future Sakuya is a vampire hunter
Compared to this, everything else makes alot of sense.

About the game soundtrack, my opinion would be:
Stage themes are really good and the title theme is great.
Stage 1 boss theme is probably my favorite so far. It feels simple but catchy. Stage 2 boss theme has a nice melody but hasn't really caught my attention yet. Stage 3 boss theme feels strange. It is good, but the messy intro kind of ruins it for me.

Gameplay is solid and the new effects are appealing. But I don't really know why Reimus portrait in this game looks so weird to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TrueShadow on July 06, 2013, 05:57:57 pm
I think there's a clearly differentiation of eras here.

The first era has a one year break of game release after PoFV, during which we get Perfect Memento.
The second era has a one year break of game release after TD, during which we get Symposium. I think HM was supposed to be part of this era but was delayed since Tasofro had to make the game from scratch.

If this pattern doesn't break, this new era will probably end after TH17 and ZUN will release another Akyuu book before TH18.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 06, 2013, 06:17:31 pm
Oh i get it, then ZUN will sell touhou franchise to DANGOYA (the one who made Kekkai Gensou Rokukyou Mythical Mirror).

For the new era of Touhou
God Reimu can manipulate the boundaries anywhere (like Yukari`s ability), light energy shape-shifting ability and Spell card mixer.
Angel Marisa can control 10 mini-hakero flying around and her master spark is much bigger than ever, also her magic ability is similar to Sariel and Gengetsu.
Future Sakuya is a vampire hunter, her knives can shoot lasers while flying like funnels, if she can`t control her knives properly, it may explode in impact.
Future Youmu wears a high school uniform, she is a sword collector, she can summon 100,000 swords (Just like Gates of Babylon from Fate anime series).
Future Sanae is so casual and her new spellcards is all about Christian bible references.

Everytime they kill every single Youkai, Dead youkai will be reborn into human again, Good youkai will be sent to Gensokyo while Bad youkai will be killed.
Generic enemies are no longer small fairies, Walking Onis and Generic random small youkai will become the new generic enemies.
The final destination of their journey will be Kyoto, the place were indestructible overpowered Youkai live.

Konngara, Fake Amaterasu and Lilith will be the last final boss for the new era of touhou.
That is a very detailed story about the next era.
And Sakuya already tried to hunt vampires, but got defeated, hence why she is a maid of Remilia Scarlet. Isn't that right?
In my opinion, I hope ZUN gives the Touhou series to someone that is capable of coding like ZUN himself.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jana on July 06, 2013, 07:29:45 pm
<snip>

ZUN's been offered to sell Touhou before, and he's always said he never will. I doubt having a wife or kids would change that; he makes enough with his regular job.

It sounds like you should be writing your own fanfiction rather than saying that anyone would ever do any of these things officially.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 06, 2013, 08:43:33 pm
Also, Sakuya The Vampire Hunter is old fanon that pre-dates TVT and was likely thought up by Buffy fans from ff.net.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 06, 2013, 09:49:17 pm
Also, Sakuya The Vampire Hunter is old fanon that pre-dates TVT and was likely thought up by Buffy fans from ff.net.
Canon speculation, if it's possible, since Akyuu mentioned it in pmiss.

I found this fanmade theme well-made. Obviously a joke, but other than that quite catchy as well as trying to mimic the music style of ddc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyh8r0aPnJA&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyh8r0aPnJA&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

For the game, the oni theory is something I would like to see, considering the 4th deva has yet to be revealed (in case Kasen is one).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 06, 2013, 10:25:22 pm
Canon speculation, if it's possible, since Akyuu mentioned it in pmiss.
And by "mention" you mean "guesses, pulling the speculation out of thin air with nothing to back it up". If anything it's less reliable than some fanon, which might use evidence to back up their claims.

Either way this thread is turning into all kinds of stupid. Not really in a rule-breaking kind of way, but come on already. Between the Walfas and the truly dumb Christian Touhou speculation and bad slash going on here, I'm really, really inclined to say, "SO, hey, about that Touhou 14, huh?"
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on July 09, 2013, 05:41:17 am
What are these speculations? HERESY is what I say!  :getdown: Burn the heretics!

Anyway, I doubt ZUN will stop with Touhou anytime soon, it's his life project pretty much ever since he went to college. His own dreamworld he can share with the rest of the world. He will probably keep working on it until he has a late midlife crisis or turns 60, at which point he won't even sell the franchise but just stop it. And we - We will be the founding fathers of his religion (if Touhou isn't religion already that is)!


About the difficulty - I agree with Tengukami, there will be another difficulty spike in stage 4. There always has been. Suddenly fairies crowd the area heavily and POCing gets impossible without using bombs, stage bosses get really unpredictable or complex spell cards and require micromanagement. In the end you will again end up with 1 life and 2 bombs at the last boss and die on his last spell. That's how it always goes. It wouldn't be Touhou, if it was different.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TrueShadow on July 10, 2013, 08:59:13 am
In the end you will again end up with 1 life and 2 bombs at the last boss and die on his last spell.
:wat:

For the game, the oni theory is something I would like to see, considering the 4th deva has yet to be revealed (in case Kasen is one).
I don't think the 4th deva would be revealed so soon. Probably would be a while after WaHH ends.
Anyway, what do you think the 4th deva would be? Since we have Suika and Yuugi as the drunken sake-loving onis, then contrasted by Kasen as a hermit, I think it would be a bit weird returning to the drunken sake-loving oni again...My guess is that she didn't remain in Former Hell and kept working as a kishin in New Hell.

On a sidenote, I recently played Ayakashi Ghost Guild and it feels weird how in that game Shuten-doji is the mature and elegant lady of war while Ibaraki-doji is the childish underling...what a 180 from their Touhou counterparts.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on July 10, 2013, 03:03:31 pm
Touhou 12 had names like Shou, Byakuren, Ichirin which I found easy to remember because they had less two letter syllables. Shou. I-chi-rin. Bya-ku-ren.
Then Touhou 13 got names like Mononobe, Toyosatomimi which I find harder to remember. Each syllable basically consisted of two letters. Mo-no-no-be. To-yo-sa-to-mi-mi.

This is kind of late, but why are you comparing surnames to given names? Miko and Futo are of course two syllables each and really easy to remember. Probably easier than Byakuren which still annoys me to type every single time. And somehow I don't think you were intending to complain about Kamishirasawa or Yagokoro or other older characters with long surnames.

About the difficulty - I agree with Tengukami, there will be another difficulty spike in stage 4. There always has been. Suddenly fairies crowd the area heavily and POCing gets impossible without using bombs, stage bosses get really unpredictable or complex spell cards and require micromanagement. In the end you will again end up with 1 life and 2 bombs at the last boss and die on his last spell. That's how it always goes. It wouldn't be Touhou, if it was different.

TD stage 4 was pretty easy, wasn't it? It always felt like a stage 3 to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on July 10, 2013, 03:39:46 pm
TD stage 4 was pretty easy, wasn't it? It always felt like a stage 3 to me.
Glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way.

Plenty of people would argue UFO Stage 4 was a difficulty drop as well, not a spike. Honestly, given how inconsistent ZUN is at balancing stage difficulties across entire games, there really isn't much stock in claiming DDC Stage 4 will "definitely" be harder than Stage 3. As long as at least one stage in the second half is harder than Stage 3, however, I might let other easier stages slide.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 10, 2013, 04:23:20 pm
Oh, yeah, for the record I made no claims about Stage 4's in general, though they usually are the Fuck You stage. Rather, I was saying the resource shower in the first 3 stages of DDC -hints- at a spike to come. But even that is uncertain.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 10, 2013, 11:30:34 pm
I'm not complaining about the names. And I keep forgetting which of Miko's and Futo's names comes first. Because in Mononobe no Futo, I always just take the first word in the name and think it's the given name. Same with Miko.

About Touhou 14...
I never seemed to get that much resources so I don't know about the resource showering. I personally think it will get much harder because the first three stage are always a warm-up to the actual game.

And UFO was actually easy to me. I found it as easy as TD. Am I the only one? I got to stage 5 in UFO with 3 lives on normal, but I can't even 1cc TD on normal. I always die on stage 5 and 6...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on July 10, 2013, 11:38:27 pm
Yeah, I should probably clarify that my opinions on difficulty come from someone who's pretty much exclusively a Lunatic player. Obviously the order of games will shift on other modes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 11, 2013, 12:13:12 am
And I keep forgetting which of Miko's and Futo's names comes first.

l2 japanese name order.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 12, 2013, 08:18:44 am
1 month left for the release, time flies :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Clarste on July 12, 2013, 12:36:00 pm
I'm not complaining about the names. And I keep forgetting which of Miko's and Futo's names comes first. Because in Mononobe no Futo, I always just take the first word in the name and think it's the given name. Same with Miko.

Fujiwara no Mokou, Hieda no Akyuu. You just get used to it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 12, 2013, 01:30:36 pm
Fujiwara no Mokou, Hieda no Akyuu. You just get used to it.

Watatsuki no Toyohime/Yorihime. Reisen Udongein Inaba (Not hard, but I think is the longest one)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on July 12, 2013, 01:51:24 pm
Kamishirasawa was the hardest to remember for me, but now I can spell it no problem. Toyosatomimi was easy, though, since it's essentially three simple words I somehow knew by then.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 12, 2013, 02:05:58 pm
The only one I ever even sometimes choke on these days is Kitashirakawa.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SeasideCharizard on July 14, 2013, 09:56:42 pm
I don't recall this being asked before, so I'll ask now:
Is there a reason the "妖器" in Dark Spark is listed as "??" on the wiki, aside from having more than a few meanings? I can see why it would be left as that in the case a precise title can't be decided upon, although there are rather different, multiple translations for other spell cards as well, such as Orreries Universe's title being either Ritualic Space or Astronomical Instrument.

EDIT: ...Odd, it's apparently translated (as "Bewitched Weapon") in the translation page for the game, but not on the character profiles for all three of Reimu, Marisa and Sakuya.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Starxsword on July 14, 2013, 10:21:44 pm
I tend to translate 妖 into "evil" instead of bewitched. So, I would have called that Evil Weapon - Dark Spark or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 15, 2013, 12:01:47 am
Wouldn't "bewitched" make more sense, considering the whole story behind the game so far, i.e., that the weapons have been "possessed" and whatnot? 
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on July 15, 2013, 05:15:39 pm
Random question, but was the release date ever confirmed?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 15, 2013, 06:14:38 pm
Yes, the release date is August 12 if I remember right.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on July 15, 2013, 07:49:21 pm
I know it was estimated to be August 12th but I don't think it's been ~confirmed~ last I checked. So that's what I'm asking.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 15, 2013, 08:32:49 pm
It's in August, I think it's someday between 12-15th.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kirin no Sora on July 15, 2013, 09:25:18 pm
So it's within a month, then.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on July 15, 2013, 10:27:35 pm
Knowing usual Touhou release dates, it's most likely going to be released sometime during Comiket 84. So the 10th, 11th, or 12th of August.
And yeah, that's within a month. Get hype! ^^;
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 17, 2013, 05:43:48 pm
I have a theory on Stage 4 boss.

It's either Marisa (when using Reimu), Sakuya (when using Marisa) or Reimu (when using Sakuya), or a boss whose spells are different regarding which character you're playing as (like Marine Benefit's Stage 4 boss, Extra midboss and Extra boss).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on July 17, 2013, 06:57:44 pm
What would actually be really cool is if the boss you face depends on whether you're using a possessed weapon or not. For example, ReimuA could fight an unpossessed Marisa, ReimuB fights a possessed Sakuya, MarisaA meets unpossessed Sakuya, MarisaB gets possessed Reimu etc. 6 unique battles (or 3 unique battles with two variations each) might be a bit much on ZUN's part, and a new character instead would also be great, but I'm still fond of this idea - and we could maybe get remixes of Eastern Mystical Love Consultation and Casket of Star and Doll of Misery!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 17, 2013, 07:01:14 pm
I have a theory on Stage 4 boss.

It's either Marisa (when using Reimu), Sakuya (when using Marisa) or Reimu (when using Sakuya), or a boss whose spells are different regarding which character you're playing as (like Marine Benefit's Stage 4 boss, Extra midboss and Extra boss).
It would certainly be interesting to have one of the later bosses to kinda use attacks based on what corrupted weapon you use. Then if you don't use a corrupted weapon, the boss would have to, maybe use her own corrupted weapons/powers?

In that case each character would have one shottype with unique spellcards for the boss and one shottype with shared spellcards.
It wouldn't be that interesting really to fight Reimu/Marisa again as a boss, especially as a 4th one since it has happened so many times before. Sakuya, well, would be okay imo but I would still rather see another existing character appear again (see PC98 / barely appearing Windows character) or just an entirely new one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 17, 2013, 07:16:00 pm
I personally like to see mirror match-like scenario. Like, if you go with the corrupted weapon shottype, you fight the person who is causing it (not the final boss, but like her second-hand woman). However, if you go with weaponless shottype, the girl will summon your weapon and make it take a human form of its master, complete with copies of her spellcards.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 17, 2013, 08:35:33 pm
Stage 4 boss will be a shadow version of yourself. Stage 6 boss will be Dark Samus.

EX-Boss will be AU 313!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 17, 2013, 09:08:06 pm
Phantasm will be Rin Satsuki, of course.
But still, the choice of corrupted/uncorrupted shottypes will probably play a mayor role in the later part of the story and maybe even in a boss event.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 17, 2013, 09:13:40 pm
Stage 6 boss could work like Eirin/Kaguya in IN.

If you go with a corrupted shottype, you fight one boss (who is the one who corrupted your weapons), if you go with an uncorrupted shottype, you fight another boss (who isn't the one who corrupted your weapons).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 19, 2013, 02:29:54 am
Are they going to reuse other bosses or is Cirno going to be the only one?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on July 19, 2013, 03:22:08 am
I agree with the IN Eirin/Kaguya thing, that sounds pretty awesome. Personally would like to see more new characters imo.



also 24(?) days till the full version, get hype!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 19, 2013, 05:05:17 am
Now i change my mind, i create my own Poll.
who will be the new stage 4,5,6 and extra stage boss from TH14?

http://strawpoll.me/251446 (http://strawpoll.me/251446)
Please vote.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MewMewHeart on July 19, 2013, 05:37:56 am
Doppelganger, for the win!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 19, 2013, 06:12:49 am
That theory is possible. But I think it will be with new characters.
ZUN might make this so to insure that you play with every character and it creates more gameplay time.
It also doesn't have to be a stage 4 boss. It could be any boss, as long as it works.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 19, 2013, 06:18:10 am
I am personally thinking it might be a stage 5 boss, at least the way I presented the idea.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 19, 2013, 11:37:42 am
Web demo of DDC released. See my update thread in TARC.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Silent Harmony on July 19, 2013, 03:45:29 pm
Sweet, I wasn't expecting that until the full release! Time to give this game a shot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 19, 2013, 05:00:46 pm
Web update gives me a lower and more consistent slowdown rate.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Agent of the BSoD on July 19, 2013, 08:34:36 pm
I uploaded a copy of the web demo to Mediafire for faster download for others. It can be downloaded here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/705jh2n1mt29u37/setup_th14_001b.zip).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 20, 2013, 04:10:08 am
And of course when I do want to play a Touhou game even just so that I can say I have tried playing even one, I have noidea how to get it working :|
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on July 20, 2013, 05:14:11 am
Are you trying to install it with your Applocale set to Japanese? I remember that trying to do that messed up the installation path for the game (by substituting the "/" for a Yen symbol). If your Applocale is set to Japanese, change it back to English.

Or to whatever language it originally was.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 20, 2013, 05:33:40 am
I ahve no fraking clue what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on July 20, 2013, 06:58:43 am
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/change-the-system-locale
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Agent of the BSoD on July 20, 2013, 07:55:45 am
Are you trying to install it with your Applocale set to Japanese? I remember that trying to do that messed up the installation path for the game (by substituting the "/" for a Yen symbol). If your Applocale is set to Japanese, change it back to English.

Or to whatever language it originally was.
Never had any problems with the installers in Japanese locale before, that's odd. Even this one for DDC, it worked just fine, and I hardly ever change my locale to English.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on July 20, 2013, 09:19:45 am
I installed it without any locale manipulations no problem, and I have a different non-standard locale, so that isn't the issue.

Previous version had severe stage 2 lag due to background, it seems it's gone now. Runs smoothly on my rig. Thank you, ZUN. I'm definitely getting this one.

You know, I have an idea that dark energy making youkai act up and weapons turning into tsukumogami are unrelated, the former will be solved in main game and the latter in extra stage. Something like this happened before, with "flying treasure ship" and UFOs in UFO.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 20, 2013, 09:28:02 am
You know, I have an idea that dark energy making youkai act up and weapons turning into tsukumogami are unrelated, the former will be solved in main game and the latter in extra stage. Something like this happened before, with "flying treasure ship" and UFOs in UFO.

It could be a possibility. The stage 6 boss altered the weapons, and the Extra boss is taking advantage of the situation to make the Youkai rise up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on July 20, 2013, 03:20:02 pm
Never had any problems with the installers in Japanese locale before, that's odd. Even this one for DDC, it worked just fine, and I hardly ever change my locale to English.

I installed it without any locale manipulations no problem, and I have a different non-standard locale, so that isn't the issue.

Ah, damn, that's right, my problem with Applocales was with Hopeless Masquerade's patch. Nevermind, then.

What problem, exactly, are you having, ToyoRai? Error messages, crash to desktop, it doesn't even install?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 20, 2013, 04:04:00 pm
I forgot what the problem was. It donwloaded the game fine to the point where it installed the shortcut. When I tried to click it, it gave me some error mesage. I forgot what it was exacly especially since I accidentally erased the whole game file while I was searching any other options the game file had and I haven't bothered to upload another one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 20, 2013, 04:33:52 pm
Now i change my mind, i create my own Poll.
who will be the new stage 4,5,6 and extra stage boss from TH14?

http://strawpoll.me/251446 (http://strawpoll.me/251446)
Please vote.

You forgot to add Liquid Ocelot. It's obvious that he used Guns of the Patriots to control the weapons, and Sons of the Patriots to control the youkai.
... Then again, Rikako could be Gensokyo's version of Liquid Ocelot...

Chances are, the boss will be mirror-related, but I'll go with mad scientist.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on July 20, 2013, 04:43:46 pm
I forgot what the problem was. It donwloaded the game fine to the point where it installed the shortcut. When I tried to click it, it gave me some error mesage. I forgot what it was exacly especially since I accidentally erased the whole game file while I was searching any other options the game file had and I haven't bothered to upload another one.

Error message? I believe it has something to do with your video settings.

Open the config file that came with it and try setting the resolution lower and/or turning fullscreen off. That's what worked for my error message, at least, but yours could be different.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on July 20, 2013, 05:08:33 pm
My game alwats crashes if I try to play it on full-screen at the highest resolution; maybe that's what happened to you too. Try using windowed mode or a lower resolution.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 20, 2013, 05:24:24 pm
I reloaded the game, and the error messages says that it won't actiavte because d3dx9_43.dll is missing from the computer. I have no idea what it means unfortunaly. Doesn't help that everything else is also jsut random symbols (heck, what I assume is the config file is mainly just question marks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 20, 2013, 05:29:26 pm
I'll continue with my theories.

Stage 4 boss: Could be like Kasumi Shindou from Marine Benefit's Stage 4 (each character takes different spellcards), a returning character or a new one.
Stage 5 boss: Related to Stage 6 boss, probably you'll fight her because she wants to protect the final boss.
Stage 6 boss: Here's the interesting stuff. There are probably two Stage 6 bosses, like in Imperishable Night, but you don't choose which one you'll fight. If you're carrying the corrupted weapon, you'll fight an important boss, but not the one who started the whole incident (like Eirin). If you're not carrying any weapons, you'll fight the true boss (probably a Mirror Youkai since it's said that DDC is related to mirrors).
Extra Boss: Extra Midboss could be Kagerou on steroids or a returning character. Extra Boss is someone new (obviously), related to the story, who could have some kind of relationship to Stage 6 boss/bosses.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on July 20, 2013, 05:30:07 pm
I reloaded the game, and the error messages says that it won't actiavte because d3dx9_43.dll is missing from the computer. I have no idea what it means unfortunaly. Doesn't help that everything else is also jsut random symbols (heck, what I assume is the config file is mainly just question marks.
Using the instructions in the link I posted above, change your system locale to Japanese.

Also, put this (http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?d3dx9_43) in your game folder.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 20, 2013, 05:40:46 pm
Yay, I finally got it working! Now a quick control check and I can begin. I try to at least finish stage 1 and see if I can do anyting pass it since I am just trying it today.

this is gonna suck

EDIT: Okay, I went through all three stages with only two continues. So it didn't go as badly as I feared. Then again, I went through it on Easy Modo, so what I know. At least now I can say I have played one Touhou game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on July 20, 2013, 06:06:10 pm
Stage 6 boss: Here's the interesting stuff. There are probably two Stage 6 bosses, like in Imperishable Night, but you don't choose which one you'll fight. If you're carrying the corrupted weapon, you'll fight an important boss, but not the one who started the whole incident (like Eirin). If you're not carrying any weapons, you'll fight the true boss (probably a Mirror Youkai since it's said that DDC is related to mirrors).
Actually, Eirin is the one who set up the fake moon in IN; Kaguya rushed in to help her after you (as in, the player characters) defeat her and later undid your eternal night spell. Also, the stage 6 boss being entirely dependent on your shottype frankly doesn't sound like a good idea if it prevents shottypes from getting a good ending or scoring benefits.
Quote
Extra Boss: Extra Midboss could be Kagerou on steroids or a returning character. Extra Boss is someone new (obviously), related to the story, who could have some kind of relationship to Stage 6 boss/bosses.
Kagerou could work like a reverse Keine in that you fight her human form (if she even has one) during the extra stage.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 20, 2013, 06:13:42 pm
That's what I mean!

In Stage 3 you confront Kagerou on her werewolf form.
In Imperishable Night's Stage 3 you confront Keine in her human form.

So...
In Extra Stage you'll confront human Kagerou.
In Imperishable Night's Extra Stage you confront Keine in her hakutaku form.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 20, 2013, 06:17:23 pm
I bet Wakashihime will actually replace Kagerou. I mean, her ability is that she is stronger underwater, so maybe while underwater she gets a massive power gain.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 20, 2013, 06:20:47 pm
I bet Wakashihime will actually replace Kagerou. I mean, her ability is that she is stronger underwater, so maybe while underwater she gets a massive power gain.
Exactly my thought.
Sekibanki seems to be the one who understands the most of what's going on, but Wasakagihime is the only one so far which seems to have a power gain ability which she hasn't used yet.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 20, 2013, 06:26:31 pm
I think Yamamoto's got it. Looking forward to hot, non-furry Kagerou.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 20, 2013, 06:49:20 pm
Arielhime isn't going to be the EX midboss because Stage 1 bosses are never the EX midboss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 20, 2013, 06:56:47 pm
I can't think about Wakasagihime being EX midboss.

My EX midboss theory says that we'll confront Kagerou in her human form (like EXKeine being a hakutaku).

Sekibanki could be EX midboss too, but I don't think that could happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 20, 2013, 07:06:35 pm
In what sort of logic would apply that the human form of character is stronger than their beast form?No seriously, I myself cannot imagine Kagerou in her human form to be stronger than her werewolf form.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 20, 2013, 07:11:02 pm
In what sort of logic would apply that the human form of character is stronger than their beast form?No seriously, I myself cannot imagine Kagerou in her human form to be stronger than her werewolf form.
All sorts of ways - could be smarter in human form, and therefore more able to spin out harder danmaku; could be stronger by virtue of not having fur in the way, who knows?

Yeah, it's all speculation, but Yamamoto made a nice catch there. I mean, Stage 3 has a very specific Imperishable Night feel to it, in terms of art and music. Keine was the Stage 3 boss of IN. If the Extra midboss in IN was a human in beast form, the extra midboss of DDC could very well be a beast in human form. It fits pretty nicely, I think.

And watch as ZUN does something totally different.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 20, 2013, 07:18:15 pm
@Tengukami

Stage 3 reminded me lots of IN's Stage 3 (The whole bamboo forest thing), and the music felt like IN's. This, and Kagerou being a werewolf and showing up in her werewolf form made me speculate.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 20, 2013, 07:29:38 pm
Wakasagihime being Extra midboss would be a bad idea unless the boss of said Extra stage is another water related Youkai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 20, 2013, 08:26:24 pm
It`s already late July.

Why TH14 Silhouette cover hasn`t been released yet?  i wonder what is ZUN doing?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Quwanti on July 20, 2013, 09:09:57 pm
I'll continue with my theories.

Stage 4 boss: Could be like Kasumi Shindou from Marine Benefit's Stage 4 (each character takes different spellcards),...
Like Patchouli, Prismrivers, Reimu/Marisa or Satori.

I hope to see something like that.

It`s already late July.

Why TH14 Silhouette cover hasn`t been released yet?  i wonder what is ZUN doing?
Because he does that the day before the release date.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 20, 2013, 09:31:15 pm
Because he does that the day before the release date.

Interestingly enough, ZUN revealed Subterranean Animism's cover ten days (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/8425943/) (Aug 6th) before the game's release (Aug 16th).

I'm pretty sure it has been the day before release with the other games, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on July 20, 2013, 11:10:45 pm
Perhaps the ex boss will be the boss of the misty lake?  That'd explain it being underwater. 

Alternatively, everybody's making theories and in reality the ex boss will just be Aya
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 20, 2013, 11:45:34 pm
EXAya!?

"Ayayaya... RAYMOO HAKURAY! Eye heard ya dan't want to answah Aya's questions for her interveew, so eye'll just kick your Shrine Maiden @$$ *sudden camera spam* *pchunn*"

The EX boss could be someone with a relationship with Stage 6's. Or a returning character. Or Mima
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 21, 2013, 12:36:43 am
EXAya!?

"Ayayaya... RAYMOO HAKURAY! Eye heard ya dan't want to answah Aya's questions for her interveew, so eye'll just kick your Shrine Maiden @$$ *sudden camera spam* *pchunn*"

The EX boss could be someone with a relationship with Stage 6's. Or a returning character. Or Mima

EX Boss will obviously be Liquid Ocelot, who inspired the culprit to control the stuff after she saw him use Sons and Guns of the Patriots in the outside world/after he told her about it.


Anyway, in all seriousness, hoping for the water-powered mermaid.
Smarter Kagerou doesn't necessarily mean stronger. Maybe better tactics... so better spell cards... but I'll go with EX Kagerou as midboss and EX mermaid as boss.
...Maybe Hatate will be the EX boss because she wanted to do a report on it?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hatateru on July 21, 2013, 02:50:30 am
With this whole "double dealing" business, I think we might be getting a Kirin/unicorn or a Hikyuu/chimera. Ex mid boss will be Sekibanki on an undead horse :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on July 21, 2013, 03:45:18 am
Ex mid boss will be Sekibanki on an undead horse :V
dont get my hopes up man

I guess it'd be too much to also ask for a spinal cord whip, huh
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 21, 2013, 03:46:36 am
With this whole "double dealing" business, I think we might be getting a Kirin/unicorn or a Hikyuu/chimera. Ex mid boss will be Sekibanki on an undead horse :V

Headless Horsewoman of the Sleepy Village?

Super-mermaid please. At least there's an explanation for a power-up.

Actually, what if Liquid Ocelot was the Stage 6 boss, and Solid Snake was the EX Boss? Otacon could be the EX Midboss.
No, I'm not drunk or on any drugs. Why do you ask?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 21, 2013, 04:23:02 am
Better question, why not make a female youkai version of Solid Snake?

Also, Water god/godess sounds kinda cliche. Probably a Byrakuren/Merman/King cross or something (But female)? Who knows, plus it's the only way Wakasagihime will ever get a chance of being EX midboss. Said Water godess would probably be Waka's mom or something.

I dunno really....
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 21, 2013, 04:44:25 am
Better question, why not make a female youkai version of Solid Snake?

I highly approve of this motion.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Fumi on July 21, 2013, 07:25:37 am
So I was wandering on the wiki and I noticed they translated the prologue and

Quote
Clouds of unease were gradually beginning to cover the sky.
The sound of a huge building, creaking in the strong wind.
Discord echoed across Gensokyo.

And let's not forget the title of the game Touhou Kishinjou "Eastern Castle of Shining Needles"

So this means we got a castle in the sky confirmed?

Maybe Stage 4 will be our way on the clouds like in PCB

Stage 5 might be inside the castle

And Stage 6 might be a tower or a room inside.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 21, 2013, 08:35:49 am
Better question, why not make a female youkai version of Solid Snake?

We already have Nitori.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Quwanti on July 21, 2013, 10:09:34 am
So I was wandering on the wiki and I noticed they translated the prologue and

And let's not forget the title of the game Touhou Kishinjou "Eastern Castle of Shining Needles"

So this means we got a castle in the sky confirmed?

Maybe Stage 4 will be our way on the clouds like in PCB

Stage 5 might be inside the castle

And Stage 6 might be a tower or a room inside.
Well, at least for the three previous main titles, the title always referred to the location. So I think it is safe to say that we see a new building (castle) within Gensoukyou. If it's in the air? Nah.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on July 21, 2013, 01:24:12 pm
Quote
Clouds of unease were gradually beginning to cover the sky.
The sound of a huge building, creaking in the strong wind.

(http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/images/howl_6.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 21, 2013, 02:54:23 pm
(http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/images/howl_6.jpg)

Controlled by the Touhou version of Howl
Scientist confirmed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 21, 2013, 06:33:18 pm
"Eastern Castle of Shining Needles"

If that's true, the final boss/bosses will appear in a castle, and following Stage 3, it could happen like this:

Stage 4:
"Suddenly, a mirror appears in front of (character you're using). Before getting closer, (Stage 4 boss) appears in front of (character you're using) and they fight. (Character you're using) wins, and the mirror brings her to a mysterious castle filled with mirrors..."

Stage 5 is like PCB's but in a mirrored hall and Stage 6 is like PCB's but in a room.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 21, 2013, 07:40:13 pm
"Eastern Castle of Shining Needles"

Also, according to the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Double_Dealing_Character#cite_note-alt-1), part of the game's title (輝針城 - Kishinjou) is pronounced the same way as the word "Oni God" (which is written in a different way though, 鬼神).

Subtle hint or coincidence?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 21, 2013, 07:49:06 pm
Probably coincidence, given the way characters work.

I swear the wiki is turning into TVTropes more and more by the day.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 21, 2013, 07:50:07 pm
Suika is back! YAY!!!

That means we could confront an Oni. Or an Oni God. Or Yuugi, who's angry because Sakuya knive'd her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 21, 2013, 08:17:47 pm
And this is where I would say that Oni God would refer to one of the devas.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 21, 2013, 08:40:57 pm
So either a returning or new oni.

WYNAUT MAK IT HAV FREE HORNS!?!!?! (In proper english: Why not make it have 3 horns, Suika had 2 and Yuugi had 1, so it could make sense.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 21, 2013, 09:02:14 pm
Why the hell would we get another oni? *FACEPALM* We already have 2 of those, we don't really need another one.

But that really didn't stop ZUN from making Shou when we had Chen and Orin. So either another returning, or a new one.

WYNAUT MAK IT HAV FREE HORNS!?!!?! (In proper english: Why not make it have 3 horns, Suika had 2 and Yuugi had 1, so it could make sense.)

Tri-Horned Dragon Oni confirmed for Final Boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 21, 2013, 09:13:54 pm
Why the hell would we get another oni? *FACEPALM* We already have 2 of those, we don't really need another one.
Because there's atleast one oni deva left for the 4th one.
The other choices would be Kasen or, maybe, Konngara (which most likely isn't true since she seemed to be bleeding from her horn).

EDIT: nevermind, some error.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Polaris on July 21, 2013, 09:51:50 pm
Probably coincidence, given the way characters work.

I swear the wiki is turning into TVTropes more and more by the day.

I'd say ZUN is going for more clever wordplay here like he did with Shinkirou for th13.5. It looks a lot like he chose the kanji for the sake of making "kishin" work out instead of for the meanings of the kanji themselves.

The thing is that we've already been introduced to the concept of a kishin/oni god, but I dunno if that makes it more or less likely for it to appear in a Touhou game. Onis seem out of place with the rest of the story, so maybe as an extra boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on July 21, 2013, 10:58:27 pm
And this is where I would say that Oni God would refer to one of the devas.
No it doesn't.

Why the hell would we get another oni? *FACEPALM* We already have 2 of those, we don't really need another one.
WYNAUT MAK IT HAV FREE HORNS!?!!?! (In proper english: Why not make it have 3 horns, Suika had 2 and Yuugi had 1, so it could make sense.)
Well, even besides the fact that we know of an entire oni culture established underground and another culture of oni working for the Ministry of Right and Wrong, we know that we should have four oni making up the Big Four of the Mountain. Even assuming Kasen is the third, we have precedence and available room for the last. Personally I don't think this game will be that case, but we definitely have room for more oni.

But that really didn't stop ZUN from making Shou when we had Chen and Orin. So either another returning, or a new one.
None of those are the same type of youkai. Chen is a nekomata, Orin is a Kasha. Shou is a generic tiger youkai. But even if they were the exact same type of youkai it shouldn't be a big deal. Are you also perturbed by the fact that there are hundreds of kappa, hundreds of tengu, hundreds of moon rabbits?

I'd say ZUN is going for more clever wordplay here like he did with Shinkirou for th13.5. It looks a lot like he chose the kanji for the sake of making "kishin" work out instead of for the meanings of the kanji themselves.
I don't think it's apt to say that it was intended to be kishin just because that's what you see. We haven't even stepped into the guts of the game's plot yet, never mind what the game is actually about. "Kishin" can mean several things, not that many are used, but "shinjou" can have a pretty wide and varied number of meanings. But regardless, it still isn't necessary that he has a particular pun in mind at all, and I think it's much too early to say so.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 21, 2013, 11:06:10 pm
Think  about it for a moment:
NEKOmata = Old cat that suddenly gains 2 tails.
Kasha = Demon Cat Youkai
Tiger = Species of wild cat

I didn't mean that they were ALL the type of myth, merely just based on the same animal. In this case, a cat.

And if could you tell me how this explanation is right or wrong, feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on July 21, 2013, 11:23:37 pm
It isn't "wrong", I knew what you were getting at. It's just a bad complaint. Again, are you also perturbed by the fact that there are hundreds of kappa, hundreds of tengu, hundreds of moon rabbits? Is it also a problem that we got Hatate when we already have Aya? Does it not matter to you that the attributes and personalities of these three characters are completely different from each other and have little to nothing to do with them being feline-based at all, one of them not even having cat ears nor tail? As far as I can tell, you're choosing to ignore all of this and just moan at the amazingly huge number of youkai we have based on catlike myths.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on July 21, 2013, 11:26:41 pm
You do realize there's a big difference between a housecat and a tiger?
And the three are completely different type of youkai. Saying they're the same thing is wrong even if they are based off of the same animal.
I for one, by the way, am fine with another oni being revealed. I'm getting a feeling too that it might be one of the Four Devas, but who knows? Regardless, Drake's right about the oni (although the Ministry of Right and Wrong I thought was a fanon thing, Higan being definitely canon, though you're free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Cut: And Drake hits it right on the head. ^^;
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 21, 2013, 11:47:34 pm
I could get you're saying Drake, up until the fact that Nitori is pretty much the only "major" Kappa in the entire franchise  :V. We barely know about the other ones, we just know they're THERE. And Mitori's just a fan creation (assuming she IS a kappa, which I remember her being).

Plus in game canon, we only have 2 rabbits, and LIKE the kappa, we don't know the others aside from Reisen 2, who is only MANGA CANON. And if were talking about moon rabbits, there's only 1 that we ever know a lot about in the games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 21, 2013, 11:56:56 pm
For me, the thought chain goes "flying castle? -> traditional-style mechanism -> those intricate Japanese automaton dolls".

Some Japanese speculation:

-The castle is literal this time. It creaks in wind, meaning it's a Japanese wooden castle.

-There are still quite a few options. In terms of "entering fantasy", it can be a castled burnt down by fire, such as Edo castle; in terms of castle youkai, Himeji castle has a woman Nagakabe-hime (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%95%B7%E5%A3%81%E5%A7%AB) who lived in its highest attic, and offered prophecies to its master every year.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on July 22, 2013, 12:27:14 am
I could get you're saying Drake, up until the fact that Nitori is pretty much the only important Kappa in the entire franchise  :V. We barely know about the other ones, we just know they're THERE. And Mitori's just a fan creation (assuming she IS a kappa, which I remember her being).

Plus in game canon, we only have 2 rabbits, and LIKE the kappa, we don't know the others aside from Reisen 2, who is only MANGA CANON. And if were talking about moon rabbits, there's only 1 that we ever know a lot about in the games.
"only manga canon" wat
It doesn't matter that we only have a few with profiles or whatever. The point is that we have entire communities of a single type of youkai, and at any time we could have several more that become well-established just as Hatate has. Nitori isn't even "important", she's just one other kappa amidst the tons of others that we just happen to expand on. Your label of importance is just based on us having more information about them. Regardless, having a whole three characters that happen to share a similar animal in their myth is absolutely meaningless. They weren't even established for the same reasons or have anything to do with each other. They don't look alike, they don't act alike, one of them doesn't even look like a cat. How you manage to make this sound like a big deal astounds me.


For me, the thought chain goes "flying castle? -> traditional-style mechanism -> those intricate Japanese automaton dolls".
That's what I've been thinking too but I hope it isn't true because my notion for some original characters stem from that sort of story and settings :C
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 22, 2013, 12:41:24 am
OKAY OKAY. Now would you leave this "Another oni is a bad thing" topic to rot in hell please?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on July 22, 2013, 12:47:14 am
...But you brought it up in the first place. =_=;
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 22, 2013, 12:48:17 am
Maybe I could just edit my posts.  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 22, 2013, 01:57:24 am
Going back and editing your posts for that reason just confuses the conversation. If you want it to drop, you can always change the subject or not discuss it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 22, 2013, 02:30:20 am
Okay, let's get back to talking about why a doppelganger would be a good 4th stage boss  :3.

And I reverted the posts back.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 22, 2013, 03:42:15 am
Okay, let's get back to talking about why a doppelganger would be a good 4th stage boss  :3.

And I reverted the posts back.

Stage 4 I think will be something like this:

Reimu A fights Marisa B/Sakuya B, Marisa A fights Sakuya B/Reimu B, and Sakuya A fights Reimu B/Marisa B.
And
Reimu B fights Sakuya A/Marisa A, Marisa B fights Reimu B/Sakuya B, and Sakuya B fights Marisa A/Reimu A.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 22, 2013, 04:45:04 am
To be honest, I really want ZUN to follow the "youkais base on or take inspiration from western myths" motifs he has going on here. Like, kishin would be nice, but unless she takes stuff from some sort of mosnter from western myths, it wouldn't be the same. And I think some time ago I said he should put a hobgoblin somewhere in there.

On talk about gameplay, has any one noticed that the "exhaust" flames from MarisA's focus shot can harm enemies behind Marisa?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on July 22, 2013, 05:19:00 am
Frigging hobgoblins and now chupacabras as well.  Next time Remilia shows up she'll be trying to find her lost fish who ended up in the Misty Lake.  Who happens to be a Leviathan or Megalodon maybe. 
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 22, 2013, 07:31:07 am
Why should the fourth boss be of the playable characters?
I would prefer to have new characters even if it is only one. Recurring characters just fill in for missing spots in the Touhou roster.
That's just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 22, 2013, 10:40:26 am
Why should the fourth boss be of the playable characters?
I would prefer to have new characters even if it is only one. Recurring characters just fill in for missing spots in the Touhou roster.
That's just my opinion though.
Agreed, to have playable characters as the 4th boss again wouldn't really be fun and would just take up the spot for more interesting characters.
About the castle, would the quote "Eastern Castle of Shining Needles" have anything to do with it?
I first thought of pandaemonium. Blame my pc98 love.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 22, 2013, 01:24:45 pm
On talk about gameplay, has any one noticed that the "exhaust" flames from MarisA's focus shot can harm enemies behind Marisa?
I thought this was really cool. It just made the whole shot type that much more powerful.

I would also dislike seeing a stage 4 like that of IN. However, I simply want to see more Western Touhous. What kinda bothers me is people wanting new characters for the sake of having new characters. I really don't get the appeal of that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 22, 2013, 02:11:57 pm
What kinda bothers me is people wanting new characters for the sake of having new characters. I really don't get the appeal of that.
Quote
However, I simply want to see more Western Touhous.

You don't get the appeal of having new characters, yet you want new characters?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 22, 2013, 02:13:43 pm
Oh, I reckon wanting new faces can come from enjoying new story dimensions, new relationships, a living Gensokyo with new arrivals like any other country and so on. Seems totally understandable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 22, 2013, 02:47:57 pm
What he said. Wanting new characters is fine, but they should have something to do with the story. Having a new character just to have one is not a good thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 22, 2013, 02:51:36 pm
I like new characters but certainly not for story reasons.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 22, 2013, 03:18:43 pm
No, it was confusing. Its not even so important that the character be related to the story. What bothers me is the number of characters that seem to sink into obscurity, when instead ZUN could focus on existing characters and make them more interesting.
At the same time I don't mind seeing new characters. After all, there's not telling if a new character might be more popular, and if we're going to get a new character we might as well get one with western influence because, that's something new.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 22, 2013, 03:31:44 pm
No, it was confusing. Its not even so important that the character be related to the story. What bothers me is the number of characters that seem to sink into obscurity, when instead ZUN could focus on existing characters and make them more interesting.
Well, I think this is more a question of personal taste, but speaking solely for myself, I think we already have a pretty fleshed-out story going on, with major players who are already plenty interesting. But making existing characters more interesting isn't mutually exclusive with adding new ones, so yeah, I'd like to see both.

But either way, I'm not holding my breath. ZUN has gone on record as saying he likes leaving some things open-ended and unexplained. I think this lends itself to tending less to develop existing cast members and more adding cast.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 22, 2013, 03:56:24 pm
Well, I think this is more a question of personal taste, but speaking solely for myself, I think we already have a pretty fleshed-out story going on, with major players who are already plenty interesting. But making existing characters more interesting isn't mutually exclusive with adding new ones, so yeah, I'd like to see both.

But either way, I'm not holding my breath. ZUN has gone on record as saying he likes leaving some things open-ended and unexplained. I think this lends itself to tending less to develop existing cast members and more adding cast.
Sure, its personal taste. Do you mean we already have a pretty fleshed out story in 14 or in the touhou series in general?
It does seem like ZUN's style to leave things open-ended, and it's unfortunate that I don't completely agree with that style.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 22, 2013, 03:58:11 pm
It does seem like ZUN's style to leave things open-ended, and it's unfortunate that I don't completely agree with that style.

Haha, well, 'fraid there's little you can do about that, short of writing him a strongly-worded letter telling him to step his game up after all the money you've spent on his work!

e: Just poking fun here, by the by. It's fine to criticize an artist for their approach to their work. I do think, though, that there's little chance he'll be changing his MO anytime soon.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 22, 2013, 04:56:15 pm
Haha, well, 'fraid there's little you can do about that, short of writing him a strongly-worded letter telling him to step his game up after all the money you've spent on his work!

e: Just poking fun here, by the by. It's fine to criticize an artist for their approach to their work. I do think, though, that there's little chance he'll be changing his MO anytime soon.

*shrug* It all depends on how he things the series is doing and if he thinks its fine then that's that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 22, 2013, 09:52:31 pm
Thinking it over from a writing perspective, I think it's not controversial to say that there are some stories which could be fleshed out better. Nothing wrong with open ends, of course, as it's something I especially like about Gensokyo. Not just for what fans do with the unanswered questions, but also in how they add a strong emotive element of mystery to the place. But there are some stories that, I guess, feel like strong beginnings that could lead to even better stories with exploration. While some stories end in one clean arc (IN), there are others that make me want to see the story explored further (PCB, in particular regarding Yuyuko). But even these two casts were explored further, in manga format. This is partly why I've been pleased with the religious arc, even if the games themselves have been a little uneven. ZUN does like to take his time with a narrative. Further exploration of the existing cast is something he actively does. I expect he'll continue to do this, even as new characters get folded in, and form relationships with these characters more further developed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on July 23, 2013, 12:28:03 am
oh shit its the game cover (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/20835251/)

midget loli confirmed
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 12:31:43 am
(http://i.imgur.com/zq2kvbB.jpg)
Yep, final boss is a dwarf. A dwarf wearing a hat. And jumping.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 23, 2013, 12:32:39 am
I hope it's not like that stupid garden gnome from that one touhou fangame whose name I don't know.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 12:57:46 am
I hope it's not like that stupid garden gnome from that one touhou fangame whose name I don't know.
Rest assured ZUN will probably not be lifting from the fan dynasty.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gpop on July 23, 2013, 01:31:37 am
I hope it's not like that stupid garden gnome from that one touhou fangame whose name I don't know.
Holy shit I remember that from I dunno however long ago jesus christ
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 23, 2013, 01:35:59 am
She is small.... incredibly so... and is she wearing what it looks like Byakuren's Hat? (Ajirogasa, I think)

I can see her feet, and It does not looks to me like she is jumping... maybe she is indeed small?

Theory time! What kind of youkai are associated with curses?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on July 23, 2013, 01:42:08 am
(http://i.imgur.com/zq2kvbB.jpg)
Yep, final boss is a dwarf. A dwarf wearing a hat. And jumping.
I thought it was the reaper at first, but then I noticed the feet just a bit below the middle. She does appear to be walking rather than jumping, though. Either she's stretching her arms out or holding an object over her should (right between the "Project" and the top edge). Considering her small stature, she might be the extra boss.
Hmm, either she's stretching her arms out or holding an object over her should (right between the "Project" and the top edge). And looking at the bulge at the top, it seems like she's wearing a bowl or lampshade rather than a hood. Not sure if the emblem at the lower right is part of her or not. What mythological creatures would go with that?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 23, 2013, 01:43:56 am
Holy shit I remember that from I dunno however long ago jesus christ

Care to enlighten me?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on July 23, 2013, 01:44:24 am
Yes, it definitely looks more like a bowl. A tsukumogami, perhaps?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 23, 2013, 01:49:51 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issun-b%C5%8Dshi

Issun-boshi, whose story every Japanese has read as a child, used a bowl for a boat, chopsticks for oars, and a needle for a sword.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 23, 2013, 01:50:47 am
Care to enlighten me?

Touhou Jaeisho ~ The Last Comer.



And... if ZUN follows his western youkai that so far has be in this game... that Gnome/Dwarf theory seems more plausible
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 23, 2013, 01:54:34 am
Touhou Jaeisho ~ The Last Comer.



And... if ZUN follows his western youkai that so far has be in this game... that Gnome/Dwarf theory seems more plausible

Saw a bit of it, but I didn't see the gnome bit.
I don't think I want to, to be honest.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MewMewHeart on July 23, 2013, 01:58:19 am
Touhou Jaeisho ~ The Last Comer.
And... if ZUN follows his western youkai that so far has be in this game... that Gnome/Dwarf theory seems more plausible
If it's a Gnome/Dwarf then I know the first meme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR7EAdPUqvQ) that will come out...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on July 23, 2013, 01:59:10 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issun-b%C5%8Dshi

Issun-boshi, whose story every Japanese has read as a child, used a bowl for a boat, chopsticks for oars, and a needle for a sword.

Holy hell! I thought the same exact thing, seriously hoping it is Issun. Either way this cover looks really nice.

EDIT: this would actually make sense since all the bosses so far have western equivalents, so it would make sense for Issun's to be a gnome/dwarf
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on July 23, 2013, 02:01:02 am
The Ex boss is the "Gnome" people are talking about, Kingaut. 

And it's just me or a child looking final boss will be a bit underwhelming?  Then again Zun has his way with designs so hopefully she'll be as cool as the others. 
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 23, 2013, 02:07:16 am
Uh......no............
If it was that......thing, it would've gotten confirmed already. :V

And give me a good source, not a vandalized wiki article or bogus news report. No "I've heard it from somewhere" either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 23, 2013, 02:13:01 am
The silhouette, brought to you by the same people who did the HM silhouette.

(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/e71b7aec54e736d1de3f89f89a504fc2d5626923_zps07c70ee4.jpg)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/f8facf1b9d16fdfa5040c31eb58f8c5494ee7b23_zps95dbbf7f.jpg)


Unrelated: a Japanese creator's artwork (twitter (https://twitter.com/kagi55x))
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/BP0qe5MCIAE_dNX_zpscf41d35d.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 23, 2013, 02:14:53 am
Yoshi lol.

On a side note, the dwarf looks like it's going to be an underwhelming boss. Plus the concept itself is, BLECK.
I want a duck youkai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on July 23, 2013, 02:28:47 am
concept
lol'd
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 23, 2013, 02:30:55 am
Yoshi lol.

On a side note, the dwarf looks like it's going to be an underwhelming boss. Plus the concept itself is, BLECK.
I want a duck youkai.

Funny you say that... In Animal Crossing New Leaf, in the campsite, there was a yellow duck today named Joey... whose catchphrase was something like "Bleeeeeck", give or take several e's.

Anyway, back on topic, I'll bet on either something related to dwarves/gnomes, that fairy tale about Issun, or both.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on July 23, 2013, 02:41:29 am
Touhou Jaeisho ~ The Last Comer.
Nope. Periphery of Power. You couldn't really call it a game, though, and it was only a funny thing that happened around here years ago. I'd be surprised if SatorKoi was actually referring to this.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 23, 2013, 03:49:12 am
Gnome? You mean hobgoblin? Seriously now, they already exist in Gensokyo, you might as well make one a proper character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on July 23, 2013, 03:52:59 am
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/e71b7aec54e736d1de3f89f89a504fc2d5626923_zps07c70ee4.jpg)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/f8facf1b9d16fdfa5040c31eb58f8c5494ee7b23_zps95dbbf7f.jpg)
A new miko? with Ao Oni's head proportions
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 23, 2013, 04:07:21 am
i think
(http://i.imgur.com/WVAepcG.jpg)

a loli dragon girl maybe?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 23, 2013, 05:51:40 am
I like to see both new characters and old characters as long as they have a background, instead of just putting them in there for randomness.
50% of me is actually hoping at least one of the next bosses or even midbosses are of old, unexplained foes.
Long story short, I hope Rumia, Letty, all those other minor characters become at least a midboss.
They all appeared and left without any hint of their background. They act like a powerful version of the stage enemies. Nothing else.
It saddens me that they weren't anything to the story.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 23, 2013, 07:01:31 am
I want a duck youkai.
Would you really want that? The quack that moves millions is a scary thing to see.

The cover art looks... interesting. Certainly does look like a jumping elf/gnome with a bowl on it's head. I guess the long thing on the side is her hair?

It's the garden gnome incident! Will be interesting to see how ZUN makes a gnome (?) as a final/extra boss to be intimidating.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 23, 2013, 07:18:47 am
Another person's attempt (source (https://twitter.com/Lan_gb/status/359566855372931072)):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/BP1wJmACAAAm7a7_zps7291a0a4.png)

The Japanese internet is buzzing with speculation about One Inch Boy (see previous post), Snowhite, Hachi-kazuki-hime, the Princess who wore a bowl (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%89%A2%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A5%E3%81%8D) (a story in the Cinderella mode), Thumbelina, and more.

Meanwhile, here's a post from May, by a fan who managed to guess Prince Shoutoku before TD's release:
http://sorane880.blog47.fc2.com/blog-entry-576.html

He speculated the DDC boss is Onra/Ura (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B8%A9%E7%BE%85), an oni bandit lord who claimed to be a prince of Silla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silla). The story of his vanquishment at the hand of Prince Kibitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibitsuhiko-no-mikoto) is said to be the basis of the Momotaro legend.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 07:58:41 am
Barely part of final boss outline visible.
Fan response: "Underwhelming, sad, where's mah oni."

Some things never change...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 23, 2013, 08:25:15 am
oh shit its the game cover (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/20835251/)

midget loli confirmed

Oh hi there game cover. I have a feeling this is the Extra boss, not the Final, like EoSD and PCB's covers (IN started the "Final boss on the cover" trend, even though there was also a small Mokou silhouette on it).

Since ZUN aimed for a "retro theme" for this game, maybe he wanted the cover to have the same feel.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 28JFJ on July 23, 2013, 08:26:00 am
When I first looked at it I thought it was a sort-of Mirror Monster, as it looked like the boss was coming out of a mirror (the curved orange part of the box art)

I think I was thinking too much about that reflection on the title screen
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 09:26:41 am
For those concerned that possible-Issun-boshi would disrupt a Western monsters theme, Sekibanki already did that. Cuc's speculation, as always, is very plausible.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 23, 2013, 09:41:32 am
Keep in mind that Sekibanki has few reference to Dullahan, which comes from an Irish folklore tale. So where Sekibanki is base on a youkai, it still has a western counterpart. And I wish similar thing with any other boss int his game, if they are not directly base on western myth.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 23, 2013, 09:47:19 am
ZUN has watched LoTR, the girl at the cover's silhouette is a hobbit.

Extra Boss IMO
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 10:17:39 am
Keep in mind that Sekibanki has few reference to Dullahan, which comes from an Irish folklore tale. So where Sekibanki is base on a youkai, it still has a western counterpart.
Parallels are not uncommon when it comes to supernatural creatures across cultures. But Sekibanki is still very much a Japanese monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rokurokubi), even if you can find parallels in the west.

The "western monster theme" is something fans came up with on their own, ignoring this, so ZUN wouldn't actually be disrupting anything by putting, you know, Japanese monsters in a game that takes place in Japan.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 23, 2013, 10:38:40 am
Still still, it is not like she has nothing what ties into something in western myths. And if anything, that's all I need.
P.S: I know what Sekibanki is base on, there was no need to tell that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 10:46:30 am
P.S: I know what Sekibanki is base on, there was no need to tell that.
Well good, I was wondering if everyone forgot she's a Japanese monster, given the outcry over ZUN possibly breaking the non-existent Western monster theme.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 23, 2013, 10:51:24 am
Another person's attempt (source (https://twitter.com/Lan_gb/status/359566855372931072)):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/BP1wJmACAAAm7a7_zps7291a0a4.png)

Meanwhile, here's a post from May, by a fan who managed to guess Prince Shoutoku before TD's release:
http://sorane880.blog47.fc2.com/blog-entry-576.html

He speculated the DDC boss is Onra/Ura (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B8%A9%E7%BE%85), an oni bandit lord who claimed to be a prince of Silla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silla). The story of his vanquishment at the hand of Prince Kibitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibitsuhiko-no-mikoto) is said to be the basis of the Momotaro legend.
Well this makes the boss seem alot cooler imo c:
Sounds plausible too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Desu_Cake on July 23, 2013, 12:15:45 pm
Keep in mind that Sekibanki has few reference to Dullahan, which comes from an Irish folklore tale. So where Sekibanki is base on a youkai, it still has a western counterpart. And I wish similar thing with any other boss int his game, if they are not directly base on western myth.
Irish and Japanese mythology are uncannily similar anyway. I'd say it's just a coincidence.

My guess is that the new boss is the Youkai of Recycling, based on that symbol at the bottom.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 23, 2013, 12:24:07 pm
Satori confirmed for Touhou 14.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on July 23, 2013, 12:50:36 pm
Irish and Japanese mythology are uncannily similar anyway. I'd say it's just a coincidence.
Her theme is called "Dullahan Under the Willows", so there's at least a deliberate shout out to the Irish monster, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 12:55:15 pm
Ok, guys, sure. Have it your way and stick with this hilarious "ZUN goes western" theme . Final boss is Pyramidhead.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on July 23, 2013, 01:05:00 pm
... I just mentioned that there is a shout-out, not that it somehow proves the theory.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on July 23, 2013, 01:07:40 pm
Final boss is Pyramidhead.
That's not even a western folkslore creature...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 23, 2013, 01:43:28 pm
EX Boss is Tom Bombadil.
Of course, Tom likes being merry and stuff.
Aka Oni Bombadill.





Anyway, I hope we get Last Words again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 23, 2013, 02:19:32 pm
Final boss is Pyramidhead.

i think a youkai with eye of providence confirmed!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xJiXH07jfwc/T9CgvXIGqqI/AAAAAAAAACE/m2_adLyKneg/s1600/Eye_of_Providence_by_mutt2000.jpg)

If this thing appears then a new mysterious conspiracy appears and it is a preview of TH15.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 23, 2013, 02:20:10 pm
Anyway, I hope we get Last Words again.

Calling Sekibanki for Hydra-like spellcard
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 02:23:04 pm
... I just mentioned that there is a shout-out, not that it somehow proves the theory.
Oh, I don't mean anything by it. I have noticed though that there's a subset in the WTC who hope and expect that a Japanese dude making games that take place in Japan for a Japanese audience will somehow start producing Christian Touhous and leprechauns bosses or whatever, and are disappointed when this does not happen. That's a really weird thing to hope or expect, but I'm just having a laugh (hence Pyramidhead).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on July 23, 2013, 02:25:31 pm
No, it was confusing. Its not even so important that the character be related to the story. What bothers me is the number of characters that seem to sink into obscurity, when instead ZUN could focus on existing characters and make them more interesting.
At the same time I don't mind seeing new characters. After all, there's not telling if a new character might be more popular, and if we're going to get a new character we might as well get one with western influence because, that's something new.
I remember you saying that you want ZUN reusing characters when TD was still in production, right?

In this series, fleshing out characters is reserved for spin-offs and literary materials.  Touhou is known for its large amount of characters and constant introduction of new ones, so it has become the series's tradition and is something that people look forward to with each new installment.

Not letting a new mainstream Touhou game introduce new characters would be like a new Mega Man game with very little or no new Robot Masters or a new generation of Pokemon with very little new Pokemon.

I'm sure there will be an uproar if a new mainstream traditional SHMUP in the series introduces very few new characters...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Desu_Cake on July 23, 2013, 02:38:44 pm
Her theme is called "Dullahan Under the Willows", so there's at least a deliberate shout out to the Irish monster, if nothing else.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. :V
And all joking aside, I'm kind of expecting Zun to go for something pretty obscure for the final boss, rather than simply some sort of dwarf or hobgoblin.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 23, 2013, 03:28:59 pm
Judging by the image, it seems like the sixth boss/extra stage boss is a little girl. She could look or be about 12-18 years old.
I know that most Touhou characters do kind of look that young, but I think she might be childish.
Also, that braided hair/tail looks childish to me. Don't take this the wrong way but don't you think so?
I don't really approve of the Western mythical creatures theory because ZUN, a Japanese guy, lives in Japan, and makes games for the Japanese audience. It just doesn't seem likely.
I do approve of the mirror theory though. Especially since the title screen displays a mirror.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on July 23, 2013, 03:47:15 pm
I don't really approve of the Western mythical creatures theory because ZUN, a Japanese guy, lives in Japan, and makes games for the Japanese audience.
That doesn't mean anything. ZUN knows his shit about western mythology and isn't afraid of incorporating western creatures into his works. See Remilia and Flandre, Hobgoblins and Chupacabras, or, well, the DDC characters. I really have a feeling the western/eastern duality is going to be part of the double dealing motif, and it makes me curious how the rest of the cast pans out. Also, don't forget that ZUN is coming to the USA this year. This might be his way of acknowledging and catering to the western fanbase without alienating his native one (not that he really needs to fear that as the Scarlet sisters and eastern characters like Reimu and Aya are popular alike).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 03:51:57 pm
That doesn't mean anything.
Are you serious? ZUN's games are rife with Japanese mythology. The dude hangs out with historians of ancient Japan for fun. He's even talked in interviews about the Japanese-ness of his games. It's odd at best to hope or expect more Westernization in Touhou based on a few characters and the fact that he's flying to the US.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 23, 2013, 04:05:12 pm
Are you serious? ZUN's games are rife with Japanese mythology. The dude hangs out with historians of ancient Japan for fun. He's even talked in interviews about the Japanese-ness of his games. It's odd at best to hope or expect more Westernization in Touhou based on a few characters and the fact that he's flying to the US.

I agree. I can see him putting a few western references here and there, but nothing more than that.

Heck, the name of the franchise is "Touhou" (東方) which means "Eastern".
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on July 23, 2013, 04:24:21 pm
For those concerned that possible-Issun-boshi would disrupt a Western monsters theme, Sekibanki already did that. Cuc's speculation, as always, is very plausible.

^This should probably be emphasized more, and agreeing with you that no matter the western mythological references thrown around here and there, the likelihood that a purely western final boss (such as a Gnome) is to appear sort of holds no ground at all. The Issun Boshi theory at least does in that A. ZUN almost always uses a Shinto/Japanese Myth for the rest of the story (excluding EoSD), so that probably won't change here and B. considering Issun Boshi is gnome-like, I wouldn't be surprised if he throws a western parallel reference for the hell of it.

Anyhow like I said before, I'm fine with any outcome but I'm still holding my ground to the Issun Theory.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 23, 2013, 04:37:44 pm
Sir Amat, you seem incredulous at the idea that the Western Touhou Fanbase has unrealistic expectations founded in unwarranted self-importance and reacts in a strong negative manner when those expectatiions are not met. How long have you been posting on this forum again?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on July 23, 2013, 05:27:25 pm
Are you serious? ZUN's games are rife with Japanese mythology. The dude hangs out with historians of ancient Japan for fun. He's even talked in interviews about the Japanese-ness of his games. It's odd at best to hope or expect more Westernization in Touhou based on a few characters and the fact that he's flying to the US.
Oh, I didn't say "ZUN being Japanese doesn't necessarily indicate the presence of eastern creatures"; of course it does and eastern mythology has dominated the series by a longshot. What I inferred from Lavalake's remark is that ZUN being Japanese means that there is no place for western creatures in Touhou, and I think that's simply wrong. Maybe I was a bit rash there because upon rereading, s/he seems to be referring to the "all-western DDC" approach. If I misunderstood something here, sorry 'bout that.

Anyway, Sekibanki isn't a western character - she's a rokurokubi according to her profile -, but she's definitely a reference to western (and of course, eastern) mythology considering both her theme song and one of her spellcards have "dullahan" in her title. Likewise, the cover girl could very well be an eastern creature (as in, an issun-boshi), but she could also be a reference to western stories (gnomes, Thumbelina, you name them). I'm not saying ZUN is going to make all characters western, oh no, but based on this (perceived) pattern, it's very possible he's going to sneak in western references for each character. And it fits in very nicely with the Double Dealing theme. Also, ZUN's visit to the USA being related was just a small theory of mine, and hey, the timing is rather nice for that, but I'm not going to place any bets on that.
(on a side note, blurring the line between rokurokubi, nukekubi and dullahan for Sekibanki seems very much intentional and typical of ZUN because he loooves leaving things open-ended)

Sir Amat, you seem incredulous at the idea that the Western Touhou Fanbase has unrealistic expectations founded in unwarranted self-importance and reacts in a strong negative manner when those expectatiions are not met. How long have you been posting on this forum again?
Was this remark referring to me? I'm not expecting anything, I'm just speculating based on the title of the game and a pattern 3/3 newcomers in the game fit into (and now a fourth one that has potential to fit in as well). At the very least, this speculation is not completely unfounded, and it's definitely possible ZUN will pull something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 23, 2013, 05:35:21 pm
I am sure he is talking to Tengukami, not to you.

As for me, I guess I won't really throw a huge rage if the western references end, but maybe I might be bit dissapointed. A man can dream, and I have already said my dreams.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on July 23, 2013, 05:50:20 pm
I am sure he is talking to Tengukami, not to you.
I know he was talking to Tengukami, I was wondering whether he was talking about me. :V
Quote
As for me, I guess I won't really throw a huge rage if the western references end, but maybe I might be bit dissapointed. A man can dream, and I have already said my dreams.
I'm pretty much in the same boat. It seems like a cool secondary theme for the game. If ZUN keeps up both the western-eastern bridge theme and the references to previous games (stage 1/EoSD and stage 3/IN), I'll be very impressed by the amount of detail he's put into this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 23, 2013, 06:01:20 pm
@game2011: Yes, I've had this opinion for a while. I understand ZUN's tendencies, I'm just voicing my opinion.

When i first came into Touhou, I thought the universe was more multicultural. On one hand there are shrine maidens, on the other they are wearing dresses, on one hand the afterlife has a Japanese castle in it, but also Vampires just invaded. Spell tags and magic circles (looked western enough to me) are casually tossed across the screen.
Anyway, my point is that I kinda still hope that ZUN has enough interest in other cultures to include them in his game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 23, 2013, 06:02:18 pm
We might see Medusa in future games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 23, 2013, 06:06:15 pm
Hmmm,... I was wondering... is there a Western Version of an Ungaikyo (Mirror Tsukumogami), or a Western one for a Doppelganger?

I have those two on my games, so I am kind of wishing for them not to be here. Not that I will dislike them of course, but stilll
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on July 23, 2013, 06:14:36 pm
Isn't a Doppelgänger wholly Western anyways? It's a German word after all. Also, I don't think canon touhou will include a Doppelgänger, as Mamizou pretty much already does that job pretty well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 23, 2013, 06:22:17 pm
or a Western one for a Doppelganger?
Uh, you mean Japanese one? Because Doppleganger is a western monster (heck, the name "dopplegänger" comes from German and means "double walker"). Probably the closest thing what Japan has to doppelgänger is Ikiryo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikiry%C5%8D) but that is more like manifestation of person's soul created by strong grudge forwards some one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 23, 2013, 06:40:38 pm
My comment was not directed at any individual in particular, but at an unpleasant sentiment that was starting to gain some momentum over the last couple of pages. I love this forum, but it has demonstrated an exorbitant amount of self-importance time and time again (including, most recently, in the HM threads and during/after the MotKchan event), and I wanted to cut it off at the pass before it fully evolved in this thread as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 23, 2013, 06:57:31 pm
Sir Amat, you seem incredulous at the idea that the Western Touhou Fanbase has unrealistic expectations founded in unwarranted self-importance and reacts in a strong negative manner when those expectatiions are not met. How long have you been posting on this forum again?
A man can dream.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: arch on July 24, 2013, 04:19:52 am
I have a feeling that this game might have another phantasm stage (might be called something else though), the last and only game to have a phantasm stage was Touhou 7, 7 games later here we are at Touhou 14 with only Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya playable again just like PCB.

If there is a phantasm stage the silhouette on the cover might just be the boss of that stage.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 24, 2013, 04:54:08 am
I have a feeling that this game might have another phantasm stage (might be called something else though), the last and only game to have a phantasm stage was Touhou 7, 7 games later here we are at Touhou 14 with only Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya playable again just like PCB.

If there is a phantasm stage the silhouette on the cover might just be the boss of that stage.
Isn't the cover silhouette normally the stage 6 boss?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Polaris on July 24, 2013, 05:07:49 am
It's possible ZUN will break the pattern again and have the silhouette be the extra boss, like EoSD and PCB. At least, that's what I hope for. From her silhouette I feel like she's exactly the kind of double-dealing character fit for an extra boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 24, 2013, 06:33:20 am
I got a feeling that EOSD has western influence and referrences to religion.

Rumia as stage 1 boss represents Christianity because it is drawn with her arms spread out, claiming the pose appears to say, "The saint was crucified." referrence to Jesus Christ.
Cirno as stage 2 boss represents Hinduism because she is blue like Shiva, she is destructive like Shiva, ''I am the strongest'' is her quote, Shiva is very powerful Hindu god.
Hong Meiling as stage 3 boss represents Taoism because she is Chinese.
Patchouli as stage 4 boss represents Zionism because her magic circle has Star of David.
Sakuya as stage 5 boss represents...Atheism i think or maybe Lunarianism just because she might be a Lunarian and her theme is ''Lunar Clock ~ Luna Dial'' sounds like a Lunarian.
Remilia as stage 6 boss represents Satanism because  she is a Devil Vampire and her magic color is red.

EOSD is too western before DDC, now i`m betting the stage 6 boss for DDC might be a Dwarf/Gnome.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on July 24, 2013, 06:47:28 am
Flandre as EX Boss represents what the fuck are you talking about because she has rainbow-colored wings that don't make sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 24, 2013, 07:12:39 am
Flandre as EX Boss represents what the fuck are you talking about because she has rainbow-colored wings that don't make sense.

I think she represents Luciferian, it`s related to Satanism, and she is far too Destructive.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 24, 2013, 07:57:25 am
Luciferianism and Satanism aren't even the same thing. And Zionism is a political belief. Helps to know what you're talking about when pulling half-assed theories out of nothing but pure projection.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hakarin on July 24, 2013, 08:24:02 am
Isn't the cover silhouette normally the stage 6 boss?
Technically yes, the last time an EX boss was on the cover of a main series shmup game was PCB. However if ZUN went out of his way to draw some parallels between PBC and DDC it's not entirely unthinkable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 24, 2013, 01:32:47 pm
I know it`s fake but look what i found on Pixiv.
(http://i.imgur.com/I1CTRbk.jpg)

looks like a Youkai wearing a Ramen bowl hat.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 24, 2013, 01:37:58 pm
Her left arm wtf.

Those Pixiv guys know how to draw.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 24, 2013, 01:49:11 pm
Hong Meiling as stage 3 boss represents Taoism because she is Chinese.
That sounds like it could be racist. Just my thinking though.

And isn't PCB's sillhouette of the Phantasm boss Yukari?
I feel like we will still have new species of youkai in the next stages.
Every youkai so far have been of new species.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 24, 2013, 02:08:13 pm
EoSD's silhouette was the EX boss. PCB's silhouette was the PH boss. Everything from IN on was the Final boss  except for GFW and arguably StB, though IN had the EX boss silhouette on top of that.

Of course, people should know these things, because if you buy the games you can just check the jewel cases.

EDIT: I guess the DS silhouette qualifies as the DS boss, too, if we want to get technical. I also don't recall Soku having a silhouette, though I'm not at home to check right now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 24, 2013, 02:13:23 pm
EDIT: I guess the DS silhouette qualifies as the DS boss, too, if we want to get technical. I also don't recall Soku having a silhouette, though I'm not at home to check right now.

Soku has Cirno.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 24, 2013, 03:20:58 pm
I know it`s fake but look what i found on Pixiv.
(http://i.imgur.com/I1CTRbk.jpg)

looks like a Youkai wearing a Ramen bowl hat.
Strangely drawn, but I like the design overall (except maybe the hat).

Anyone knows what she's saying in the picture?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on July 24, 2013, 03:36:10 pm
I'm familiar with Issun-boshi's story, and he has nothing to do with weapons being possessed, so to say that the final boss is based off him because of a bowl-shaped hat is rather baseless...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 24, 2013, 03:43:26 pm
I won't spend two hours on Google Translate, but as much as I can translate, I think she's talking about thousands of something.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 24, 2013, 03:44:56 pm
Strangely drawn, but I like the design overall (except maybe the hat).

Anyone knows what she's saying in the picture?

さあ、千本目の武器をこちらに

Something about a "Weapon of thousand eyes" (千本目の武器)? I'm not sure though.

To anyone better at Japanese than me, feel free to provide a more accurate translation.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 24, 2013, 03:47:17 pm
@game2011 Well as I see it, the whole thing with weapons being possessed (and the situation with tsukumogami) is more like a side incident, with youkais running amok being the main incident. Then again, what way would Issun-boshi related to that one as well.

Also, I think the bowl hat is a nice touch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 24, 2013, 03:51:23 pm
She's saying something like "now, here's the weapon of Thousand Eyes..."
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on July 24, 2013, 03:57:54 pm
Even if unrelated, it's weird how both people above have Sekibanki icons.  :wat:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 24, 2013, 04:00:49 pm
I'm sorry Cirno, Cheeeeeen, Parsee and Kyouko, but Sekibanki is now my favorite Stage 2 boss.

Deal with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on July 24, 2013, 04:10:16 pm
I know it`s fake but look what i found on Pixiv.
(http://i.imgur.com/I1CTRbk.jpg)

looks like a Youkai wearing a Ramen bowl hat.
Interesting how whoever edited this image actually bothered editing the score.

...though I think they forgot the point item value.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Flan27 on July 24, 2013, 05:23:28 pm
She's saying something like "now, here's the weapon of Thousand Eyes..."

More like "Well then, give me the 1000th weapon."
目 here is like the -th number suffix in english (10th, 11th, etc.)  It doesn't mean eye.

This character seems to be based on Benkei.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 24, 2013, 05:39:16 pm
Nah Karisa, it's just the stage 5 and 6 cash-in. They have a lot of items  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 24, 2013, 10:45:35 pm
Hm, according to the new intro for DDC, Sakuya has acquired a new sword, which is what's rampaging, rather than her knives...
Issun had a sword...
It seems like a safe bet to me that the final boss will be (partially) based on Issun.

Maybe it's Frodo with a sword and the One Ring...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 24, 2013, 10:57:56 pm
Movie references? In my Touhou?

Let's get hyped for the next Comiket then...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on July 25, 2013, 03:10:55 am
Then we also got our location for the last stage / extra stage. It's a volcano.  :yukkuri:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 25, 2013, 03:36:26 am
Armor-encased being with a mace confirmed as EX boss, and a Gollum-like as the EX Midboss.
You can't disprove this, technically.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 25, 2013, 03:58:22 am
Then we also got our location for the last stage / extra stage. It's a volcano.  :yukkuri:
Well, if we end up visiting past locations in this game even further, we might end up in Old Hell at the final stage (as long as we don't skip PoFV)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on July 25, 2013, 11:00:55 am
Armor-encased being with a mace confirmed as EX boss, and a Gollum-like as the EX Midboss.
You can't disprove this, technically.
If your goal is to constantly spam extreme randomness instead of actually discussing the game, then please stop bothering . Now and then being silly is not an issue for the sake of fun, but don't overdo it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 25, 2013, 11:49:00 am
Well, if we end up visiting past locations in this game even further, we might end up in Old Hell at the final stage (as long as we don't skip PoFV)
In that case, I wonder if it would be like in PoFV.
Reimu: If this keeps up, I have to go to a place I don't normally go to.
If the "culprit" isn't hiding in one of the old places ofc, but that would be kind of strange.

The final boss will probably still be something eastern.
I don't think something like a gnome will appear.

More like "Well then, give me the 1000th weapon."
目 here is like the -th number suffix in english (10th, 11th, etc.)  It doesn't mean eye.
I like this version :p
Gives an interesting look on the corruption of weapons theme.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on July 26, 2013, 01:44:21 am
I don't think anyone has pointed it out yet, but there's also a bird in the silhouette: right underneath her foot, in the bottom left corner.
Also, this is my first post as a MotK member, so if I make any mistakes I apologize.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TrueShadow on July 26, 2013, 02:06:36 am
If the game is vaguely based on Issun-boshi, then I get the feeling Issun-boshi herself will be the EX boss, while the final boss will be the oni she supposedly slain.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 26, 2013, 02:29:21 am
Hmmm... so far, then, a Doppelganger an Issun-boshi look to be the most plausible choices.

Argh! ZUN!! Why couldn't you wait when it was like 1 week before the release of the game!! I...Just...can't...wait...for...it!!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 26, 2013, 04:04:30 am
The wiki has been updated with a larger cover art image, at 613 x 606.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:Th14cover.jpg

Here's an even larger image (from D-Stage), but it has been trimmed on four sides (click to enlarge):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/2900031400245_0_l_zpsf5247b28.jpg)

My friend's analysis:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/2fda3ac79f3df8dc6c901f65cc11728b461028ae_zps5b0aa232.png)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/d597b8014a90f60373180cb33812b31bb151edab_zps1870b43f.png)

She's pinching with her right thumb and index finger.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Banim on July 26, 2013, 05:29:52 am
I'm really curious about that thing she has around her. Any idea of what could it be? Personally, it kinda reminds me of a wheel... a very distorted one at any rate. But it's probably some sort of weapon or even some sort of device she's sitting on. But, supposedly Ichirin is already a wanyuudou or a katawa-guruma, so it seems unlikely this new character could be either of those.

I found this pic in Deviantart, of a katawa-guruma...
http://ehime.deviantart.com/art/Katawaguruma-21640239

I don't think that's a common depiction of this type of youkai, though, but I virtually know nothing about them besides the name... but I kinda see a resemblance I guess?

Anyway, I tend to agree that the design of the character in the cover, or what we can see anyway, seems more fitting for an Extra or even Phantasm boss... The Isshun-boshi extra boss with an oni being the final stage boss theory seems more likely.

So I still really wanna know what's that thing around her... assuming it's part of her design.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on July 26, 2013, 05:30:47 am
Really? To me, it looks like she's outstretching her hand and bending her wrist as well. At least, that's what I thought when I saw the cover.
 
On the subject of the bird in the corner, I talked to a few of my fellow Touhou fans on a different forum and they said the bird might be a fenghuang. And just to add to the 'every youkai has a western counterpart' theme, the fenghuang's western counterpart is the phoenix.

Sadly, I don't know of any legends involving fenghuang (a downside of being a western Touhou fan is not knowing much about Japanese legends) so if someone could find something that might tie the theory into what we already know about the game, I would love that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 26, 2013, 06:37:26 am
It's indeed 鳳凰, "Chinese phoenix" (Mandarin: fenghuang, Japanese: hou'ou). The basic idea about them is simple: they are the noblest of all birds.

Since it's not a prominent part of the image, it's probably unrelated to the story.

Original source found out by that Japanese fan who's really good at it: (1 (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/359677582372904962), 2 (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/359683298710126593), 3 (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/360517256633008128)):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/thimg201307232334430000_zps357270e2.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Polaris on July 26, 2013, 06:53:33 am
When the bird was first pointed out, I thought back to Momotarou again, with his animal companions that included a bird. The theory by the fan that cuc posted a little while ago about Onra/Ura (and by extension Ki no jou and Kibitsuhiko-no-mikoto) might be right after all. Then again, I can't make the connection between that story and the game's plot about youkai rebellion, so I don't know if it actually holds. (The whole Ki no jou = Kishinjou connection is really tempting, though.)

Really curious as to what the weird symbol thing is, too, and how it connects to the character. If it was something obvious in the myths/legends then it would probably have been found out by now, so I guess it's something ZUN invented instead of lifting it directly from a myth. It could be something like Byakuren's scroll.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hatateru on July 26, 2013, 06:57:10 am
It's indeed 鳳凰, "Chinese phoenix" (Mandarin: fenghuang, Japanese: hou'ou). The basic idea about them is simple: they are the noblest of all birds.

Since it's not a prominent part of the image, it's probably unrelated to the story.

Original source found out by that Japanese fan who's really good at it: (1 (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/359677582372904962), 2 (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/359683298710126593), 3 (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/360517256633008128)):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/thimg201307232334430000_zps357270e2.png)

Actually a fenghuang/hou'ou was among one of my guesses for a new character in DDC, namely because phoenixes are relevant in both Western and Eastern mythology and therefore would be pretty "double dealing" itself. 

My other guesses were kirin/unicorn, hikyu/chimera, ushi-oni/minotaur, daidarabochi/titan, hydra/orochi and kinnara/harpy.

But on hindsight they do seem pretty far fetched now..
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on July 26, 2013, 06:59:30 am
Good point. Now that that's out of the way, I was also having a conversation on what the final boss's ability might be with a few friends.
The final boss's ability might be something like, 'The ability to animate objects', and the stage 5 boss has  'Manipulation of Will'.

Manipulation of Desire wouldn't work, as Miko already can hear desires, but if someone controls your will, you have no control anymore. It would explain why all the youkai want to be exterminated by the crazy shrine maiden, because they're not in control of themselves.

I'm also going to say it here, there's a high chance Mamizou will be a midboss. After all, the title of her stage is 'Raise the Flag of Rebellion', and ZUN even said that the title would tie into the next game. There's a good chance she's partially responsible for something.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 26, 2013, 07:51:57 am
The final boss's ability might be something like, 'The ability to animate objects', and the stage 5 boss has  'Manipulation of Will'.
Why's that, I ask? Like, it argee with the powers, but I think it would be fitting that the final boss has the "Manipulation of Will" and stage 5 boss having the "The ability to animate objects". The fact that the youkai rebellion is the main incident and the weapon possession is there as a side dish. I think I have said this before, but I think the stage 5 boss is the one behind the weapon possession to corrupt the heriones so that the one behind the youkai rebellion can succest.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on July 26, 2013, 07:57:35 am
I should have switched those two. Sorry about that. It's like 12 am here and my brain isn't working properly  :V

Continuing on with the revised version of the ability theory, I wonder which youkai would actually have an ability like that. We've already seen the bit about Onra and Issun, but I don't know if mythology describes them with those kinds of abilities.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on July 26, 2013, 11:08:48 am
This is probably quite insane, but the hole in the middle of her body made me think of something. It looks a little like her upper body could be disconnected from her lower body. Is there a youkai like that? Sure, we already have Sekibanki who detaches one part of her body from the other, but...
Also, to fit into that image I'm seeing comes the strange object surrounding her. It looks a little like it could be a spine (obviously not counting the big swirly thing in the middle of it).

On mentioning the swirly thing, I just want to remind everyone that there are swirls EVERYWHERE in the game. When bosses appear or charge attacks, when fairies are killed, on the right half of the screen and probably elsewhere. I assume the swirly thing is responsible for the dark clouds that "make the youkai rebellious".
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 26, 2013, 12:25:18 pm
Yeah, Like 7TC7, my number one concern is that precarious hole in the center of the character... what's going on there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 26, 2013, 12:36:55 pm
I myself think that her sleeves are just darn huge but are either detached sleeves or the sleeve suddenly expand at certain point and the hole is a gap between her sleeves and torso. Here (http://images.wikia.com/guilty-gear/images/d/d1/Ggxx_cs_an.jpg) is good example with detached sleeves, though you have to think it so that his sleeves aren't made of same cloth and Here (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=34366461)(Pixiv link, SFW) when the sleeves is attached to the clothing but just ends at one point
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 26, 2013, 12:58:34 pm
I myself think that her sleeves are just darn huge but are either detached sleeves or the sleeve suddenly expand at certain point and the hole is a gap between her sleeves and torso. Here (http://images.wikia.com/guilty-gear/images/d/d1/Ggxx_cs_an.jpg) is good example with detached sleeves, though you have to think it so that his sleeves aren't made of same cloth and Here (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=34366461)(Pixiv link, SFW) when the sleeves is attached to the clothing but just ends at one point
All of which is fine until you look at how thin that makes the characters torso.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Desu_Cake on July 26, 2013, 01:58:19 pm
Yeah, it's pretty certainly the gap between her sleeve and torso. Now that I look at it more closely, I'd say she isn't particularly short at all, just in some sort of weirdly-drawn sitting pose.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on July 26, 2013, 02:00:52 pm
All of which is fine until you look at how thin that makes the characters torso.
That could be simply a side-effect of Zun-art.

I mean look at Sakuya's hand.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 26, 2013, 02:02:17 pm
All of which is fine until you look at how thin that makes the characters torso.
Yes, especially when you look at these images:
My friend's analysis:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/2fda3ac79f3df8dc6c901f65cc11728b461028ae_zps5b0aa232.png)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/d597b8014a90f60373180cb33812b31bb151edab_zps1870b43f.png)
It makes it look like she only got her spine or something else really thin in that spot holding her lower and upper body together.
Unless ZUN just messed up here, as said by Sagus.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 26, 2013, 02:12:09 pm
I don't think there's a hole in her torso.

If you look at it carefully, you can see that this character has low-hanging sleeves. The "hole" is a gap between the sleeve and the body - the character is seated, or doing some kind of "Cossack dance" (although probably something like it rather than an actual Cossack dance - maybe someone here better versed in tradition east Asian dance can provide some better examples). When you compare the width of her arms to what would be the width of her waist, it's more or less in proportion.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 26, 2013, 02:45:55 pm
I don't think there's a hole in the character either, I know that's created by the sleeve. I'm just talking about the image.
What I'm looking at is how thin the torso is in comparison to the length of the arms and legs.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 26, 2013, 03:01:45 pm
D'at sleeves.

I think her right hand is doing the peace symbol so it's maybe a hippie youkai :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on July 26, 2013, 03:17:03 pm
If the game is vaguely based on Issun-boshi, then I get the feeling Issun-boshi herself will be the EX boss, while the final boss will be the oni she supposedly slain.

I was thinking something like that.
After all, why would a character based on Issun cause these things to happen?

Wonder what role, if any, this bird will play...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 26, 2013, 03:22:38 pm
Where do you even see this birf? I have looked at the cover for a while and I see no bird in there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on July 26, 2013, 03:40:22 pm
Where do you even see this birf? I have looked at the cover for a while and I see no bird in there.
Look at the background, beneath the characters shoes. I would say that because it's just in the background, it doesn't have a large significance to the character.
Though, since it is a phoenix, the first thing that comes to mind is the theme of reincarnation.
(But that would be the western theme, the eastern theme seems to be a royal one, or the birth of someone noble.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hatateru on July 26, 2013, 04:51:58 pm
I don't think there's a hole in the character either, I know that's created by the sleeve. I'm just talking about the image.
What I'm looking at is how thin the torso is in comparison to the length of the arms and legs.

Actually it does appear proportionate when you take into account how our bellies usually "suck in" when we bend slightly over in a sitting position (which is exactly what I think this girl on the cover is doing). I'm sticking to the 'gap between sleeve and torso' perspective.

On the other hand, I think that pattern is just there for stylistic purposes. That or it might be the girl's own cool weapon should the pattern really turn out to be part of the portrait?

EDIT: I think she's holding a sake dish in her left hand. I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 26, 2013, 05:01:54 pm
Actually it does appear proportionate when you take into account how our bellies usually "suck in" when we bend slightly over in a sitting position (which is exactly what I think this girl on the cover is doing).
That, and it being something like a 3/4 profile, which is also slimming.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on July 26, 2013, 06:48:51 pm
Mokou for Stage 4 midboss, calling it now
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on July 26, 2013, 07:17:50 pm
Why would Mokou be a Stage 4 midboss? I mean, it does make some sense, seeing as Stage 3 takes place in the forest, but maybe Stage 4 is somewhere completely different. Besides, Mokou is human- a youkai rebellion wouldn't affect her at all.
Oh well. If Stage 4 is still in the bamboo forest I would say that the midboss would be a certain mischevious youkai animal who leads a whole species of youkai Tewi

Also, DDC and PCB are the only two games where Cirno is a midboss and Sakuya, Marisa, and Reimu are playable. I'm calling another Phantasm boss for this game
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 26, 2013, 07:28:24 pm
What if Sekibanki is Extra Stage midboss (like Chen), and the Extra Stage boss has a relationship with the (maybe) Phantasm Boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on July 26, 2013, 07:38:20 pm
That's actually what I was thinking too. But Sekibanki isn't a shikigami, and it doesn't hint anything about it in her profile. It seems that Sekibanki was just a random youkai affected by the rebellion.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 26, 2013, 08:26:32 pm
Thinking that things from previous games will return is one thing, but thinking they have to be the same way as they were before is another thing. You saying that Sekibanki cannot be a EX Mid-boss because se ain't a shikigami is what I mean by that.
Also, if the stages are revisits to older places in game order, level 4 would be something from PoVF
bets on Nameless Hills with Medicine as mid-boss since she is a Tsukumogami
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on July 26, 2013, 08:52:03 pm
Actually... yea, you're right. Or maybe it will be another case of Kogasa's random midboss appearance and Sekibanki wants to have another danmaku match with the shrine maiden/witch/maid because of her complete and utter failure to frighten the heroine in Stage 2 with her head danmaku because she's gotten more powerful.
But then the EX Stage would have to take place in the human village... which means Keine is the Extra boss and then Rinnosuke is the Phantasm boss
Don't mind me, I'm just having some fun here :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eashiftzr1 on July 27, 2013, 01:29:45 pm
It's going to be a long time until I can try this, since I'm starting with EoSD.

By the way, is Japanese difficult to learn?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on July 27, 2013, 04:12:02 pm
It's going to be a long time until I can try this, since I'm starting with EoSD.
No it won't. Once this game comes out you can drop EoSD, skip a touhous 7 through 13.5 and then you can play this game. Seriously, don't feel you need to play these games in order.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 27, 2013, 04:46:36 pm
It's going to be a long time until I can try this, since I'm starting with EoSD.

By the way, is Japanese difficult to learn?

You don't really need to learn the whole timeline and play all the games to understand the saga :V

And yes, japanese is hard to learn.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 27, 2013, 05:50:16 pm
Fortunately, all the games have English patches and the official written works have translations.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ふねん1 on July 27, 2013, 06:04:39 pm
And yes, japanese is hard to learn.
We're English-speakers. We don't really have a right to call other languages difficult. :V

As for eashift's point, you don't have to play the games in order. While you may have a different view, I normally don't bother with the story when actually playing the games - I play them for the danmaku first and foremost. If I do want to read into the story, I'll just go to the Wiki page when I feel like it. As for the games themselves, again, don't feel restricted. If one of the later games interests you more than an earlier one, go ahead and give that one a shot first.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Messiah on July 28, 2013, 02:52:48 am
Is that a Loli shinki? :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Peachblossoms on July 28, 2013, 05:13:32 am
Does anybody else get a halloweeny feel from the entire games ambiance?
Definitely stage 2s boss and the entire of stage 3 in general
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kirin no Sora on July 28, 2013, 04:03:39 pm
I was thinking about that image, and I think that the circle thing in the portrait may just be a mirror(the extensions could be anything, so I'll not try to guess on that part), which implies that this may be the mirror youkai that we're looking for. She could even be mimicking the image of Issun-boshi(which I have seen that someone before me has already stated this part as a theory), possibly out of respect for the person or something.

Also, I have a question. Has there been a touhou game where two different mid-bosses had shown up in a stage? It would make for a interesting surprise if that happened somewhere during gameplay, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on July 28, 2013, 04:23:34 pm
Also, I have a question. Has there been a touhou game where two different mid-bosses had shown up in a stage? It would make for a interesting surprise if that happened somewhere during gameplay, wouldn't you say?

The only example I remember is Marine Benefit (which is a fanmade game, though), where Kasumi and Megumi both appear as mid-bosses of stage 6 Lunatic.

Unless you want to count Alice who appears two times in PCB stage 3, before the actual boss fight. Or Orin (cat form) in SA stage 4.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on July 28, 2013, 04:26:05 pm
Expies of Yuki and Mai appeared in Samidare extra... but then again, that's not exactly Touhou either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on July 28, 2013, 05:00:46 pm
Unless you want to count Alice who appears two times in PCB stage 3, before the actual boss fight. Or Orin (cat form) in SA stage 4.
The LLS stage 4 midboss also makes two appearances. We've had dual midbosses as well (Daiyousei/Lily in FW extra and the two strange disks in SoEW stage 3).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on July 28, 2013, 05:50:54 pm
Orin also appeared as Stage 6 midboss and Stage 5 midboss/boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on July 28, 2013, 06:43:54 pm
Also, I have a question. Has there been a touhou game where two different mid-bosses had shown up in a stage?
If you mean two different characters at different times (as opposed to two midbosses at the same time or the same midboss multiple times), I'm pretty sure there haven't been any instances in the official games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 28, 2013, 06:46:17 pm
Unless you want to count Alice who appears two times in PCB stage 3, before the actual boss fight. Or Orin (cat form) in SA stage 4.
If you really want to stretch it, there's also how Mystia appears as a midboss, and then attacks you as the stage boss immediately after the midboss fight is over.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Fumi on July 28, 2013, 06:51:16 pm
Also, I have a question. Has there been a touhou game where two different mid-bosses had shown up in a stage? It would make for a interesting surprise if that happened somewhere during gameplay, wouldn't you say?

Well... at least for windows games...

PCB Stage 3: Alice appears 2 times, second time in Hard and Lunatic declares a Spell Card
MoF Stage 3: Appears a first time, then flees and returns to declare a Spell Card
SA Stage 4: Orin appears at the beginning of the stage and midway through it
FW Extra Stage: Dai and Lily White appear at the same time midway through the Stage

But two different bosses more than 1 time? In the official games it has never happened
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on July 28, 2013, 07:29:05 pm
Well, maybe not quite what you are looking for, but the extra stage of LLS has three seprate bosses: light orb midboss, Mugetsu who is followed right away with Gengetsu. Ans this is only taking account that you fight them one at the time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 29, 2013, 02:33:55 am
I was thinking of Concealed the Conclusion's stage 4 midbosses of Chen and Ran in this instance.
Chen appears first, and then after you defeat her, both her and Ran appear.
Does this count? Though it's a fan-game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 29, 2013, 02:38:18 am
FYI, here's a summary about the Princess Who Wore a Bowl:

Once, there was an old man who wanted a daughter. He prayed to the Kannon of Hase Temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hase-dera), and his wife gave birth to a daughter. When her mother passed away, Kannon told the daughter to put a big bowl on her head. When she did, the bowl was stuck and couldn't be taken down.

The girl was mistreated by her stepmother. She attempted to drown herself, but the bowl kept her from sinking. She was rescued by an aristocrat, and became a servant in his family. The noble man's fourth son fell in love with the girl, but his mother was against marrying a woman of low birth. So his older brothers set up a contest: if she can win against all their wives, the son can marry her.

The night before the contest, the bowl broke, revealing her beautiful face. She won the contests of singing, dancing and knowledge. They lived happily ever after.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Monkeypro257 on July 30, 2013, 08:22:56 am
The silhouette from the TH14 cover makes me very curious!  :wat:

I'm just hoping that the 4,5,6th, and EX stages have new characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eashiftzr1 on July 31, 2013, 12:05:36 am
And yes, Japanese is hard to learn.

I think that learning Japanese really isn't that hard, but learning the alphabet, and remembering all the symbols, and what they mean, is the hard part.

So, challenge accepted, because I want to :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 31, 2013, 02:59:31 am
The game is done.

ZUN's tweets today (July 31):

At 8 AM:
Quote
ZUN: (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/362356709169172481) I asked the wife to help with debugging, then it ended up lasting till this morning.

ZUN: (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/362356709169172481) The wife said the game was too hard, but I think it should be easy. I can average over 6 remaining lives at Normal.

At 11 AM:
Quote
ZUN: (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/362400299320745985) The CD was burnt. The bamboo grove was burnt.
Note: the second sentence is a palindrome. It reads the same in reverse: takeyabu yaketa.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Monkeypro257 on July 31, 2013, 03:10:36 am
YES! The game is finally finished! Let's see the new characters, ZUN!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on July 31, 2013, 03:37:22 am
Takeyabu Yaketa?

is it the name of stage 6 boss or extra stage boss? whatever.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on July 31, 2013, 09:56:45 am
ZUNwife seems to be a devoted debugger / playtester for him. Always useful to have such a person around.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 31, 2013, 12:32:33 pm
ZUN himself, the dude who made the game, has 6 lives after a 1cc.

I don't know if this means the game will be very hard or very easy.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on July 31, 2013, 12:45:37 pm
He said it'd be easy BECAUSE of that. I'm banking on a big UFO-like difficulty spike between the difficulties, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 31, 2013, 01:14:02 pm
Did he specify difficulty? If not, one can always guess that he might've been playing a lower one? Or maybe that he's reasonably adept at his own game and know how to squeeze a good chunk of resources out of it.

Or maybe i'm just grasping at straws because I really don't want to see my favorite doujin developer fall even deeper.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 31, 2013, 01:35:22 pm
He specified that he averaged 6 lives after a 1cc on normal.
But maybe lunatic will be a lot harder.
It might be like PCB in terms of difficulty.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 31, 2013, 01:58:30 pm
Well, having him die that much on Normal mode might be a good sign maybe? Normal modes are usually extremely easy to no-miss after all. Then again, I don't know anything about ZUN's capability so maybe it's just that ZUN sucks.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on July 31, 2013, 02:02:58 pm
Well, having him die that much on Normal mode might be a good sign maybe? Normal modes are usually extremely easy to no-miss after all. Then again, I don't know anything about ZUN's capability so maybe it's just that ZUN sucks.  :V

IIRC, on one of the interviews done to him, he was asked if he was any good at Lunatic, and he responded something among the lines of "Well, someone has to test for bugs on lunatic, after all"
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 31, 2013, 02:08:13 pm
Well, having him die that much on Normal mode might be a good sign maybe? Normal modes are usually extremely easy to no-miss after all.
That's my thinking, too.

I mean he made the game, and still finished Normal with six lives? I think the prevailing theory that there's going to be a steep ramp-up in difficulty for the latter three stages might prove true.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on July 31, 2013, 02:18:02 pm
I hope so.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on July 31, 2013, 03:02:16 pm
Or there are very few resources.
I, myself, am really bad at Touhou and can only 1cc on easy with an average of 1 life left.
So I hope the game is on the easy side in easy mode and normal, and on the hard side for hard and lunatic. Like TD.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on July 31, 2013, 03:10:26 pm
There won't be a shortage in resources. However it seems you guys are underestimating thd strength of a 6 spare finish run.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 31, 2013, 03:16:29 pm
Sure, from any other player, BT. But from the guy who made the game? Sounds like it'll be tough.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on July 31, 2013, 03:20:08 pm
See what I said in the other thread. He said it was easy.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 31, 2013, 03:51:42 pm
Again, you are ignoring this is the guy who made the game.

Put another way: how your average player finishing Normal with 6 lives holds up is one thing. That's pretty good, though not stellar. Now consider this is the guy who wrote the actual code for the game, who made it from scratch, finishing this same way. I think it's pretty uncontroversial to see this as a significant and telling indication that the latter stages are probably pretty hard. That's "indication", by the way; not "iron clad proof".

But we'll all know in a matter of days anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on July 31, 2013, 04:05:48 pm
Toooo be fair, the original sentence has no subject (Japanese grammar, you know). It could be that ki-san (his wife) is the one who averaged 6 lives remaining at Normal, despite complaining about difficulty.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on July 31, 2013, 04:06:52 pm
Toooo be fair, the original sentence has no subject (Japanese grammar, you know). It could be that ki-san (his wife) is the one who averaged 6 lives remaining at Normal, despite complaining about difficulty.
That would be a totally different story, yes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on July 31, 2013, 04:13:02 pm
I agree that it's not proof but it's hard to argue with the opinion of the guy who made the entire series. :V But yes this is pretty pointless.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Banim on July 31, 2013, 06:36:23 pm
I just had a crazy thought, maybe I can look back at it when the full game is released and have a laugh.

The weird thing around her could be some sort of spinning wheel, and her right hand gesture is because she pricked her finger, or indicates sewing/weaving, or something like that. Maybe we are looking at a Sleeping Beauty / Princess Who Wore a Bowl character mix here. Mostly, I thought of this because of the title of the game, Eastern Castle of Shining Needles.

Alternatively, this is another drunk Oni and she is wearing a bowl just because.

Or maybe that's not a bowl at all, when comparing actual character art to the silhouettes it's easy to see how you could interpret things differently and miss tiny details. Kinda like when I thought Miko was holding a scythe when it was in fact two separate things.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on August 01, 2013, 03:23:25 am
C'mon guys don't overthink him getting 6 lives remaining on a 1cc.  I mean, there IS a MarisaB availiable and he didn't say who he played as. 
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Star King on August 01, 2013, 03:35:29 am
Time to interrupt this conversation in order to make an outlandish claim, so that I can declare myself supreme overlord of predictions if I happen to be right:

Remilia will be the Extra midboss.

*rides off into the night*
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 01, 2013, 05:06:22 am
C'mon guys don't overthink him getting 6 lives remaining on a 1cc.  I mean, there IS a MarisaB availiable and he didn't say who he played as.
It would be even worse if he didn't balance out MarisaB.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Greatest Dog on August 01, 2013, 05:27:17 am
Provided that MarisaB still retains the strongest forward-focus type in the game, I can deal with the bomb being nerfed.
I mean, ReimuB might be the Needle Reimu but she still has homing properties. Although, maybe SakuyaB could deserve a stronger focused shot?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 01, 2013, 06:23:46 am
ReimuA's bomb needs a bit more range, and a bit more oomph to deserve the range and wacky movement you get during it. Her shottype is good enough as it is; possibly too good. Having both an omnidirectional superhoming shot and a strong homing area-specific shot gives you access to tons of stage planning and in general is pretty game-flattening.

ReimuB's needles need to do more damage, maybe. Everything else is fine.

MarisaA is pretty much fine as she is.

MarisaB's bomb needs to be massively nerfed on the invul / bullet cancel (i.e. the period it's on screen), and the power item spawning. I think it's a good utility bomb and could be done well if its overwhelming brokenness is fixed. I currently use MarisaB and feel incredibly guilty every time I bomb. Her shots are fine.

SakuyaA's focus shot is cool, but much too powerful for the utility it gives you. Homing, enemy slowdown, explosion damage? This shouldn't be nearly as strong as it is. On the other hand, her unfocus shot you might as well never use because of how overwhelmingly better her focus shot is.

SakuyaB needs some buffing. The unfocus shot is actually fine (as it is with A), but her focus shot is in dire need of help, especially at lower powers. I think it's intended to give you a Galuda feel to it, but at this point it's more like you're using Ageha's shot with Tateha's rapier. The shottype itself is great (a bit of coverage on her sides and behind her would be nice), but it's so underwhelming I left her for MarisaB just because her shot actually has some power behind it. I think it would really benefit from additional shotgun damage as well, which would pair nicely with her bomb, which is also super cool. I'd say the stars you get back might be better off as just two, but really it just needs to be balanced against how much MarisaB gets.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on August 01, 2013, 06:54:05 am
Speaking of SakuyaA, I read somewhere that the explosion/slower speed causes the bosses to shoot less bullets. It's probably bs, but it's worth an ask.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sahgren on August 01, 2013, 07:25:08 am
I've heard that as well. Seems like a tad much to give her given everything else that shottype has.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 01, 2013, 08:34:50 am
Bosses no, but as I said, it slows down enemies. When the shots hit an enemy, they slow down or stop moving and they stop shooting bullets.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on August 01, 2013, 08:46:13 am
I've found that very easy to notice with the stage 3 big fairies that shoot those blue bullets which explode.  If you shoot them with SakuyaA they basically slow down to the point they don't shoot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on August 01, 2013, 03:29:47 pm
That helps make up for "ugh stop piling all your knives onto two popcorn fairies sakuyaA"

She's so good on bosses still, though. Especially the third one >_> High damage -and- homing? Yes please. Plus dat bomb
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on August 01, 2013, 03:38:03 pm
Bosses no, but as I said, it slows down enemies. When the shots hit an enemy, they slow down or stop moving and they stop shooting bullets.
I'm pretty sure the bosses are actually effected. I don't think it slows down the bullets, but it seems to effect the rate at which they appear. I recall having an easier time supergrazing the mermaid's first spell with SakuyaA, seemingly because my shots slowed it down. I could be mistaken though. In fact, I'll double check.

edit: I guess I was wrong. huh

Either way SakuyaA is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 01, 2013, 04:47:11 pm
To avoid Sakuya A piling knives on a minor fairy, toggle Shift. Does wonders for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 01, 2013, 10:32:13 pm
I recall having an easier time supergrazing the mermaid's first spell with SakuyaA, seemingly because my shots slowed it down.
You probably just noticed how the pattern has a sort of disjointed acceleration when unfolding and mistook it for SakuyaA powers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Ginko on August 02, 2013, 12:58:14 am
I also thought maybe SakuyaA had some effect on bosses, seeing how Kagerou erases her own bullets when she dashes through them.

Especially, I noticed on her last spellcard on lunatic, she sometimes cancels one whole ring of purple bullets she just shot in a corner when SakuyaA is used, while I never noticed that happening with other characters.

But I didnt really study that point, that's just over a few runs. Did anyone else noticed that thing with SakuyaA or another character ?

Then again I'd favor the idea that her shot has no effect on bosses, seeing how weird it would for ZUN to manage the balance with any changes in patterns an effect would cause.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Fumi on August 02, 2013, 02:37:34 am
From what I read but haven't tested is the fact that SakuyaA does not slows down bosses but instead she slows down the counter.
I only read it but I have yet to test if it's true.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 02, 2013, 03:18:10 am
I have never played as Sakuya A but I will give it a try to find out about this theory.
Touhou 14 is coming out soon. About 3 more weeks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on August 02, 2013, 03:31:07 am
More like one and a half
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on August 02, 2013, 06:30:24 am
Touhou 14 is coming out soon. About 3 more weeks.
You know, the thing is released in next week's Comiket, not three weeks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 02, 2013, 07:14:20 am
Wasn't thinking straight at the time. Thought Comiket was somewhere in the 20ths of August.
But, that just makes it sooner. Get ready to have all your grants either come true, come close, or miss by so much.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on August 02, 2013, 08:52:32 am
I could be wrong but I think SakuyaA also slows Sekibanki's head down. 

(For some reason I keep thinking of the "my name is Hong Meiling" video whenever I see so many knives stuck on her head.  Must be the red hair.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on August 02, 2013, 12:55:43 pm
But the main question is, is SakuyaA broken or not?
Those it need to be nerfed in any way?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 02, 2013, 04:49:00 pm
Broken? No, I don't think so. I think people are maybe a little quick to use that word. 
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 02, 2013, 10:54:00 pm
SakuyaA's focus shot is cool, but much too powerful for the utility it gives you. Homing, enemy slowdown, explosion damage? This shouldn't be nearly as strong as it is. On the other hand, her unfocus shot you might as well never use because of how overwhelmingly better her focus shot is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 02, 2013, 11:16:20 pm
Totally agree. But making the most of the focus shot can get a little tough; toggling Shift to home in on what you actually want to hit. The unfocused has a decent spreadshot at full power, but you have to be at least midscreen for it to be very effective. That's what's weird about SakuyaA, to me - stages are harder than bosses. For me, at least.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on August 03, 2013, 01:50:56 am
She's not so overpowered in stages, from what I can see. It's mainly against bosses, where the idea of homing + high power is kind of absurd, especially considering how Kagerou tends to be hard to stay under. She's not "broken," yes, but she should probably do less damage.

I'll admit I'm kind of disappointed with the shots in this game. Homing types are annoying by default, especially when it's infallible superhoming. Everything else is just kind of a narrow forward beam. MarisaA seems like the most interesting, if only because it's a fucking flamethrower, and the bomb seems less abusable than others.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 03, 2013, 02:02:16 am
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm just in love with SakuyaA. She makes it possible for even bad players like me to feel that are doing good sometimes. :)

And the bomb is sick fun on the stages. Pop one and go PoC like mad without risking death!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2013, 02:06:16 am
The relative stage difficulty of SakuyaA is what tips things away from Way Too Powerful for me, both for survival and scoring, unfocused or focused. Boss fights though, yes, they are cake. Shame about that.

The bomb is interesting, though, with the bonus from not taking the "cherry bonus" thingy. And you still get the autocollect.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 03, 2013, 02:41:23 am
Boss fights though, yes, they are cake. Shame about that.

Pls try Lunatic Kagerou just one time, creditfeed if you need to, and see if you still believe that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2013, 02:54:37 am
I do mean compared to stages, but I'll take your word for it where Lunatic is concerned!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rizado on August 03, 2013, 07:06:34 am
Please, stop saying these ridiculous things about MarisaB and SakuyaA. MarisaB bomb can be helpful for massive collecting only on Lunatic, sometimes on Hard. On Normal it's pretty useless for it. And it's not need to be nerfed. C'mon, think about less skilled players! This bomb can be very useful for them!
Then SakuyaA... No, she is NOT broken and her slowdown is a feature. Look, she is a Yuuka in this game with her sadistic knives! Maybe you think that her knives are OP, but again they are useful, especially for Kagerou and all Lunatic stages/bosses. So don't say bad things about her.
Of course, it's just my opinion, but hey, we need some diversity sometimes, don't we? I mean, we have characters this strength not every game.
As for game cover. I really hope that this girl is Extra boss, not Stage 6. Please, ZUN!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 07:51:15 am
Flaws that apply to Lunatic apply also to Normal and whatever else, so you have no point there. SakuyaA kills boss patterns way too fast and effortlessly. MarisaB turns any boss pattern into free resource farming.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 03, 2013, 08:04:16 am
Er, I'm thinking about players of all skill levels. It just becomes more apparent how powerful those shot types are when on Lunatic, since it's the one with the most bullets. I think instead you're looking too far into what I said and are just thinking "oh no! he wants my favorite types nerfed!". Even if that wasn't the case, if you want to ignore the existing problems on higher difficulties for the sake of Normal, you're being a hypocrite. Think about the more skilled players.

Have I said how MarisaB should be nerfed? Would you like to know? Put a cap on the number of power items you can retrieve per bomb. Limiting you to only be able to get two pieces out of each bomb would mean you get a maximum of six pieces per life, one of them being a life piece. With this, you couldn't spam bombs for free lives, nor bombs. Are lower difficulties affected by this? No. Additionally, I would let the bomb run out sooner than it does. Currently it takes about nine seconds to vanish, and during that whole period you can shotgun while invincible. Limit it to less time and it's less abuseable. Does this affect lower difficulties? Yes, but the problem exists on all of them.

As for SakuyaA, limit the range of its homing, soften how much slower the enemies get, and nerf its explosion damage. Changing how slow the enemies get will vastly affect Lunatic, but if the enemy you're hitting doesn't shoot many bullets to begin with (i.e. lower difficulties), then it isn't as big of a deal slowing them down in the first place. She doesn't need a huge nerf, but it's apparent her focused shot is overpowered. Her unfocused shot on the other hand needs buffing. The fact that you say "it's useful!" for both shot types means either you can't see how powerful they are, or you don't care and just want your personal favorites to stay as powerful as they are.

Seriously, jeez, it's a critique of how the shot types are balanced. ZUN's shot type balancing does need work in basically every game to some extent, and in particular he has bigger balancing problems with gimmicky characters. Balancing the shot types out gives you more diversity in that people can actually use a multitude of shot types and not just using one or two types because they're just better. Do you acknowledge how overpowered ReimuA was in SA? The other characters might as well not exist if your goal is just to win. Is that diversity? No.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: PhantomSong on August 03, 2013, 08:51:29 am
Please, stop saying these ridiculous things about MarisaB and SakuyaA. MarisaB bomb can be helpful for massive collecting only on Lunatic, sometimes on Hard. On Normal it's pretty useless for it. And it's not need to be nerfed. C'mon, think about less skilled players! This bomb can be very useful for them!

MarisaB bomb; On Normal it's pretty useless for it.
What the hell are you talking about?
EH-HEM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V70PMGFZAxE)

Marisa B's bomb is too overpowered no matter the difficulty. With the ability to get a lot of power items when it just TOUCHES a bullet and the length it lasts to where you can constantly pound the enemy IS WAY TOO OVERPOWERED. As semi-demonstrated in this video.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 03, 2013, 09:14:34 am
Have I said how MarisaB should be nerfed? Would you like to know? Put a cap on the number of power items you can retrieve per bomb. Limiting you to only be able to get two pieces out of each bomb would mean you get a maximum of six pieces per life, one of them being a life piece. With this, you couldn't spam bombs for free lives, nor bombs. Are lower difficulties affected by this? No. Additionally, I would let the bomb run out sooner than it does. Currently it takes about nine seconds to vanish, and during that whole period you can shotgun while invincible. Limit it to less time and it's less abuseable. Does this affect lower difficulties? Yes, but the problem exists on all of them.
What about making it so you can't hide inside your bomb for like 4 full seconds after use? Make it so bullets don't actually cancel when they come into contact with it and it's suddenly much harder to PoC and definitely harder to trivialize the patterns.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on August 03, 2013, 09:36:20 am
What about making it so you can't hide inside your bomb for like 4 full seconds after use? Make it so bullets don't actually cancel when they come into contact with it and it's suddenly much harder to PoC and definitely harder to trivialize the patterns.

Yeah, and make the bomb lose its main point. Though I agree lower duration and faster movement would balance things out.

...Am I the only one who find all this balance talk funny, especially given that full game is finished already?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on August 03, 2013, 09:41:30 am
I like how you are getting on each others necks by discussing how to nerf shottypes while it's all up to ZUNs whims anyways. I have the strange feeling he won't change much on the shottypes if he didn't change them much or at all between the first demo and the web-demo. (did he actually ever majorly change a shottype between demo and full game?)
It's obvious that many touhou-shottypes, if you know about there strange properties, can break a game but there is no one telling you to use these strange properties. If you are just playing normally and not abusing some things, it doesn't really matter, right?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on August 03, 2013, 10:01:05 am
I actually don't mind if some shots turn out stronger and some weaker. That adds an additional difficulty diversity and makes sure players don't just park on one shot style if they want to be taken seriously (see "Now do it with Marisa" meme). As long as it's not IN's "so weak they time out spellcards" or MoF MarisaB's "bosses die in 5 seconds" kinds.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Greatest Dog on August 03, 2013, 10:14:38 am
Hey, as long as the shots are all usable like it seems right now (with the exception of SakuyaB being kinda weak at the moment), then who are we to complain?
It's not like SA where you have one good Forward type, two poor man's variants of the Forward type, a bomb type, and... whatever Patchouli and Alice count as.

(I admit that I used ReimuC to 1cc SA Lunatic, though).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 03, 2013, 10:18:35 am
I like how you are getting on each others necks by discussing how to nerf shottypes while it's all up to ZUNs whims anyways. I have the strange feeling he won't change much on the shottypes if he didn't change them much or at all between the first demo and the web-demo. (did he actually ever majorly change a shottype between demo and full game?)
So because he may never see me post and go "oh hey that guy might be onto something", it's pointless to criticize the existing decision? Is it pointless to criticize once the game is already done and released? That makes no sense. It's just discussion, and what I'd personally like to see changed in the shot types. The only reason I might reply on edge is because some guy is telling me not to criticize something because he doesn't see what's wrong with it.

And yes: off the top of my head he fixed SanaeB in UFO so that bombing on one pattern wouldn't damage the next pattern, along with her shot trajectory. I'm sure there's more.

It's obvious that many touhou-shottypes, if you know about there strange properties, can break a game but there is no one telling you to use these strange properties. If you are just playing normally and not abusing some things, it doesn't really matter, right?
Are you kidding. Are you really going down that route. What.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on August 03, 2013, 11:03:30 am
By the way, SakuyaB's gimmick is milking PIV items while shooting focused (think Guwange's coin stream at high chain). Does it have a great impact on scoring now? It might turn out that way in full game, in which case we'd have a deliberate "weak but good for scoring" shottype.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on August 03, 2013, 11:11:13 am
So because he may never see me post and go "oh hey that guy might be onto something", it's pointless to criticize the existing decision? Is it pointless to criticize once the game is already done and released? That makes no sense. It's just discussion, and what I'd personally like to see changed in the shot types. The only reason I might reply on edge is because some guy is telling me not to criticize something because he doesn't see what's wrong with it.

Nono, don't understand me wrong. I don't meant to say you can't criticize ZUNs decisions or discuss how to make them better, that's what this thread is for, i guess, but I feel like it's pointless to get angry at eachother about something like that. Sorry, I just felt like this and some of the speculation on the finalboss went a bit far for what they are. Don't mind me if you think all is allright, though.

Are you kidding. Are you really going down that route. What.

I guess I am, because I don't really know what you are getting at with that comment. If you tell me what you mean I'm happy to listen. It's fairly easy to not abuse MarisaBs bomb in DDC or MarisaBs Level 3 Laser in MoF or Malicecanon in IN. It's your own choice to use them to there full "gamebreaking" extend - I feel gamebreaking isn't really the right word for them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 03, 2013, 11:50:29 am
I guess I am, because I don't really know what you are getting at with that comment. If you tell me what you mean I'm happy to listen. It's fairly easy to not abuse MarisaBs bomb in DDC or MarisaBs Level 3 Laser in MoF or Malicecanon in IN. It's your own choice to use them to there full "gamebreaking" extend - I feel gamebreaking isn't really the right word for them.

What you are talking about there is restricting yourself from using the options you are given because the options aren't tested thoroughly enough. You can't just choose to ignore certain things and still expect to keep up with the competition. World records in MoF uses MarisaB's laser glitch for example for speed kills when it's worth it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on August 03, 2013, 12:17:39 pm
What you are talking about there is restricting yourself from using the options you are given because the options aren't tested thoroughly enough. You can't just choose to ignore certain things and still expect to keep up with the competition. World records in MoF uses MarisaB's laser glitch for example for speed kills when it's worth it.

Okay, you are right. I didn't really think about competitions or speedrunning when making my statement. That's why I said "If you are just playing normally and not abusing some things, it doesn't really matter, right?". It was really just my opinion from my own perspective. My bad.  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rizado on August 03, 2013, 12:40:40 pm
because some guy is telling me not to criticize something because he doesn't see what's wrong with it.
Well, it's YOUR opinion that they are broken. And in MY opinion they aren't. Why I said not to blame SakuyaA and MarisaB? Because you said it like YOUR opinion is universal truth and they MUST be nerfed. Then I pointed that it's just MY opinion, but you anyway trying to critisize me because of it. What's your problem? We all have opinions on some things. Why I can't post my thoughts and you can only because my opinion is different?
Don't want to use MarisaB bomb? Then don't use it, it's not big deal. Game is already finished and I'm sure that ZUN didn't change game at all (in terms of shottypes and characters).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2013, 12:47:15 pm
Guys, there is literally nothing you can say once the Panel Of Experts here decide that ZUN has failed again, so you may as well just let it go.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rizado on August 03, 2013, 01:24:16 pm
Welp, hope the rest of the levels will have also AWESOME music like three previous/existing. Although I don't like "Dullahan under willow" much, but other tracks... yum!
Speaking of bosses. I think there will be mirror yokai who caused the trouble with the weapons. But will she be the Last boss (Stage 6) or not? And I really hope that Stage 6 boss isn't that one from cover because... I just don't feel Stage 6 from her, I feel Extra.
Also wonder will ZUN ever make another Phantasm stage?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 03, 2013, 03:26:32 pm
You can find out on the next episode Comiket.
About the players, I normally play as ReimuA so noting affects me.
There's no need to yell at each other for their opinions. I think we should change the subject because ZUN might not have fixed the problem.

So, I pretty sure the game will be harder than TD.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on August 03, 2013, 03:29:55 pm
Well, it's YOUR opinion that they are broken. And in MY opinion they aren't. Why I said not to blame SakuyaA and MarisaB? Because you said it like YOUR opinion is universal truth and they MUST be nerfed. Then I pointed that it's just MY opinion, but you anyway trying to critisize me because of it. What's your problem? We all have opinions on some things. Why I can't post my thoughts and you can only because my opinion is different?
Don't want to use MarisaB bomb? Then don't use it, it's not big deal. Game is already finished and I'm sure that ZUN didn't change game at all (in terms of shottypes and characters).
What you're saying is basically "your opinion is different from mine so shut the fuck the up." The entire point of a discussion is people with differing opinions communicating with each other. Obviously Drake's going to defend his point; that's how arguing works. You, on the other hand, are covering your ears with your hands and telling everyone to go away. If you don't want to hear people talk about the game, then don't come to a thread the very purpose of which is talking about the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2013, 04:55:43 pm
Ok, seriously. Drop the personal attacks. The elitism reeks, and it contributes nothing.

EDIT: To put it another way -

Totally Fine:
"I think [Character X] is broken/totally balanced because of X, Y and Z"
"I disagree. Consider the fact that A, B and C."
and so on.

Less OK:
"I'm right, you are wrong. Because of reasons that I will not specify."
"Shut up, you pleb, and come back when you play Lunatic."
and so on.

We get some great game discussions here. There is no reason for anyone to be telling anyone else to shut up or get out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: DATAMOSHLOLIRAVE on August 03, 2013, 06:34:37 pm
Guys, there is literally nothing you can say once the Panel Of Experts here decide that ZUN has failed again, so you may as well just let it go.

im an expert zun is good

believe me im an expert
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 03, 2013, 06:41:39 pm
It is my opinion that everything you have to say is objectively false. If you have any objections, let me refer you to my replay page.  ;)

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Silent Harmony on August 03, 2013, 06:53:19 pm
Ok, seriously. Drop the personal attacks. The elitism reeks, and it contributes nothing.
Guys, there is literally nothing you can say once the Panel Of Experts here decide that ZUN has failed again, so you may as well just let it go.
Tengukami, I really love when you post, but something about these last two really rub me the wrong way. It almost like you're telling people to stop calling each other out while at the same time calling out the Lunatic players who are complaining (legitimately) about ZUN's history of shot-type balancing. Marisa's bomb in the trial is rediculous. (http://youtu.be/m_AsOYx82K8) It just is.

Also I have no problem with out "panel of experts" complaining about a game/genre they take seriously. I mean that's like saying fighting game professional players shouldn't complain when there's imbalance there. And I haven't seen a "panel" person send an uneducated claim, they back up their complaints with ways to fix the perceived problem. It's the people defending ZUN who are saying "I'm right, you're wrong" for the most part.

And honestly, the only Lunatic-related "attack" I've seen in this thread was Zengeku at the the top of the page, and I'm pretty sure even that was tongue-n-cheek.


*sigh* Sorry, carry on.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: King L on August 03, 2013, 06:59:07 pm
I play to the demo and it is very easy... Normally, I play at Normal, but I play at Lunatic for this demo!!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 03, 2013, 07:34:22 pm
And honestly, the only Lunatic-related "attack" I've seen in this thread was Zengeku at the the top of the page, and I'm pretty sure even that was tongue-n-cheek.

Yeah, you're right, that definitely wasn't an attack.  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on August 03, 2013, 07:40:09 pm
Okay, took some time to research scores, and SakuyaB is indeed the highest scorer even this far. This will likely stay true in full game, since PIV only goes up, and she does it faster than anyone. While MarisaB is close behind, I predict a difficulty spike, so suiciding for bombs might need to be dropped.

On another note, SakuyaA bomb has a few drawbacks. First, initial bullet cancel only affects stuff within the circle. Fast bullets and lasers (if we'll have them further on) stay a problem. Second, you can't move for a second after activation AND getting hit. Worst case, this can make you a sitting duck and you bomb again or die anyway. I think these points balance it out. We'll see for sure in full game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2013, 07:52:21 pm
Tengukami, I really love when you post, but something about these last two really rub me the wrong way.

Well, thanks for that reasoned response. Let me elaborate.

The first quote was a semi-humorous remark about a thing that happens a lot on this site, in that there are a core group of players who find faults with pretty much every game ZUN has made. Some of their complaints are totally legit, some of them are ridiculous. Either way, this is a thing that happens, and once their opinions are set, they seldom change.

The second quote doesn't even single out any one particular person or group of people. It is a request that there be an informed discussion. This is why I used the example, "I think [Character X] is broken/balanced because X, Y and Z" - like Drake did - with a retort being something like, "I disagree. Consider for example A, B and C", like myself and C.Angel did. That's an informed discussion of the game. What I think is less cool is when difficulty level is used as a sort of "my opinion matters more" bludgeon (as Zengeku jokingly referred to; it is something that can happen in these discussions) or probably my least favorite device of all: "I'm just stating my opinion", which is usually code for, "I cannot defend my point with actual evidence, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway and throw a capslock hissy fit if I'm contradicted with actual evidence."

I'm not accusing any one individual or group of people of bad behavior, but as we were already moving into capslock and "why don't you leave the thread" territory, I was just dropping a reminder that we can have these sometimes very heated discussions like grown-ups if we want to.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: chum on August 03, 2013, 10:24:31 pm
I captured VoWG once and this game doesn't have VoWG I think it needs more VoWG
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 03, 2013, 10:36:32 pm
That's a very valid point. Everything needs more VoWG after all. That is indisputable. I can only think of few other things that would do more good for shmups, I can link you to my dropbox if you wanna know more.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2013, 10:40:37 pm
My dream shmup is, in fact, nothing but successive boss fights, each one using VoWG, over and over again, at increasingly higher difficulty. No stages, no dialogue, and no music save for AC/DC's "Highway to Hell", played at faster speeds with each stage.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 03, 2013, 10:41:40 pm
Ammy it's a good thing you said that (previous post), because I was about to explode over what I saw as defending Rizado for awful reasons. Woop.
longpost is long warning warning

Well, it's YOUR opinion that they are broken. And in MY opinion they aren't.
Two opinions are not given equal weight just because they are opinions. You can't just hide behind "it's my opinion!" and expect that nobody can touch you; that isn't how discussion works. If you want to be taken seriously, give actual reasons why people should think your opinions hold any ground. An opinion means nothing without information behind it.
Quote
Why I said not to blame SakuyaA and MarisaB? Because you said it like YOUR opinion is universal truth and they MUST be nerfed.
I never said my opinion is universal truth or anything of the sort. What I did do is state what parts of each shot type were off-balance in relation to the output of the other characters and their individual ability to crush the game. If you really wanted me to, I could back all of those statements up with data and replays. It would waste a bunch of my time, but I could. The point is that any sufficiently-aware player, and by that I mean any player who's been playing Touhou enough that they actually have the ability to compare and contrast the pros and cons of certain shot types (basically, Normal players), should be able to come to these conclusions themselves just by playing the different characters, or by watching other people play them. I shouldn't even have to explain this, this is so silly.

MarisaB's bomb is utterly broken on Lunatic and is still abuseable on Hard, as shown in many many videos already. It isn't abuseable (at least so far) on Normal and Easy. My suggested solution was to put a limit on the bomb such that only the abuses themselves are affected. If you have an issue with this suggestion, please let me hear it. I'm not going to brush you off because you play a lower difficulty, but so far you haven't said anything to back up your stance.

I also don't think SakuyaA is broken, and I never said it was. Unlike some other Touhou games, there isn't a massive power difference in shot types so far. If SakuyaA stayed the way she is, it wouldn't be a big deal. She's just very strong, and she also has a ton of utility. Generally, shot types with a lot of utility (i.e. Homing Reimu) are the weaker shot types, because that's just how you balance power and utility. If you didn't, it would overwhelm other shot types and would be able to easily crush the game.

Quote
Then I pointed that it's just MY opinion, but you anyway trying to critisize me because of it. What's your problem? We all have opinions on some things. Why I can't post my thoughts and you can only because my opinion is different?
Because you read my post and basically said "You're wrong, stop picking on these characters". It was a flat-out content-less reply in disagreement with a post I actually put thought into. It's an insult.
You can post your thoughts and opinions all you like. If I disagree with those opinions, I might reply to them by posting my thoughts and opinions. That's all fine and dandy, but as I said above, you need to actually back up your opinion, or it means nothing. If you weren't actually replying to me and had just said "I like the shot types how they are" or whatever, that's fine I can just ignore you. But it's like you're poking a beehive with a stick and then go "why did the bees sting me I was only having fun poking their hive with a stick".
Quote
Don't want to use MarisaB bomb? Then don't use it, it's not big deal. Game is already finished and I'm sure that ZUN didn't change game at all (in terms of shottypes and characters).
This is the same thing 7TC7 said and it's an absolutely empty argument. I don't even know where this sort of argument comes from out of people's heads, it's so silly. The fact that a shot type or bomb or whatever is unbalanced, just because it's on the player's side, doesn't mean it gets a free pass from criticism-land. If by explosion the shot type were instant-homing and killed every enemy on the screen and canceled bullets, would it still be fine as long as players who thought it was a terrible idea just ignored it and played pacifist? No, jeez. Just don't use the bomb? Well crap, now you don't have a bomb to use at all anymore. (Which, by the way, is my current problem, as I mentioned before!) If the exploit is super-duper broken like MoF's MarisaB, since the community will see that you weren't playing with the same rules, they won't acknowledge any accomplishment with it as equivalent to others anyways, so the whole argument of "just don't use it and let other people do what they want" is shallow and redundant of a suggestion at best. Even having all that said, it doesn't even matter that some people want to have an even playing ground, it's still friggin busted.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2013, 11:19:26 pm
I don't think powering down SakuyaA's focus shot would hurt, that's for sure. It's challenging to use it well, though, and the unfocused spread is only of real utility close to the PoC. I could go either way on the bomb. I like the combination of the autocollect that I like in the other shottype I use, ReimuA, and the border bonus thing from PCB. ReimuA's homing shots, I think, are pretty powerful.

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 03, 2013, 11:39:33 pm
Her bomb is definitely nice, yeah. I personally prefer bombs with minimal effects, so both SakuyaA and B's bombs work well for me.

As for ReimuA's shots though, you can look over at the shot data sticky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,181.0.html) and see that homing Reimu is always near the bottom end of the ranking. They aren't necessarily "weak", they're just weak relative to other characters. I'm not entirely sure how DDC Reimu stacks up, but considering ZUN is using the same shot behaviour as 10D Reimu I doubt it's changed much.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 04, 2013, 01:53:14 am
I like using Reimu A because it helps a lot in spells where I can't always be under the boss.
I usually play easy or normal, so I'm pretty bad and will sometimes move away from the boss just to dodge bullets.
Without using Reimu A's homing shots, I would be timing out a lot of spells.
I personally am 50/50 on this. I would like the shots to stay the same to create a variety, and for the different difficulties.
But the shots are kind of overpowered at the same time too.
I can't play Touhou 14 demo right now, so I can't test any farther.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Greatest Dog on August 04, 2013, 06:01:27 am
With the exception of SakuyaB being kind of on the weak side, even at close range, I'm still overall impressed with how every shot is -capable- of being used well.
I mean, we don't have anything like MarisaB from UFO, right?

ReimuA is pretty powerful considering the utility. I'd almost consider her akin to MoF MarisaC with how you can clear stages with it. But the bomb is fairly short range.
That never stopped people from using ReimuB in PCB, did it?
ReimuB is very 10D like. Which isn't a bad thing. Although it bothers me that her needles are too spaced out to entirely hit a boss.
I immediately dismissed MarisaA as a terrible shot only useful for her bomb but ever since I learned that she has (quite potent!) shotgun damage, I've been using her most.

And everyone else has already discussed MarisaB and Sakuya enough for me to say anything.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 04, 2013, 11:22:55 am
With the exception of SakuyaB being kind of on the weak side, even at close range, I'm still overall impressed with how every shot is -capable- of being used well.
I mean, we don't have anything like MarisaB from UFO, right?

UFO MarisaB is capable of being used well (http://score.royalflare.net/th12/replay12/th12_ud0ecf.rpy), what are you talking about.
 ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gray21oh on August 05, 2013, 03:15:48 am
Hopefully I didn't miss much with how this discussion is going.

I tend to enjoy the game the most playing with ReimuA. It's powerful, it's good on some bosses and while the bomb is of short range, I think it's strong enough so it sorta balances out. I don't think I need to comment on ReimuB, basic TD shot type except the needles have wider reach. I guess thats a bit of a downside though since it doesn't beat bosses up fast?
MarisaA just screamed shotgun, and it does a serviceable job at it. I'd compare it to MarisaB in EoSD/PCB. MarisaB's bombs I will say are admitingly broken, enough so that it would probably be hard to see your power go below 2.00.
I believe you all know my dislike for Sakuya right? It's a tad more apperent here. I will say SakuyaA is fun to mess around with, but it's irritating when trying to bomb for items. Yet again I always get a sense of LLS in this game whenever I see a bunch of items fall and I find it impossible to get up to the border so I suppose thats why. I can defenitly see the balance with SakuyaB, but it's too weak for my personal liking. Most of the time I play casually and really only try to high score whenever I get an itch for it.

On a bit of a leftover note here, for as long as I've been playing the demo I've found the difficulty on hard devil-ish. That could be just me accustomed to how TD's hard difficulty is but even then, I think when compared to hard on SA it's a tad more jerkish.

Short summary: Shot types are okay, Hard is balls of the walls, can't wait till release and hope some screen leaks are fake.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengar Zombolt on August 05, 2013, 03:30:09 am
can't wait till release and hope some screen leaks are fake.
Worry not, ZUN never leaks any screenshot of unreleased material. They're all fanmade.
Of course I could be wrong but the track record speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gray21oh on August 05, 2013, 06:12:17 am
Worry not, ZUN never leaks any screenshot of unreleased material. They're all fanmade.
Of course I could be wrong but the track record speaks for itself.
I think It's because some others are buzzing around that there are all these leaks for the game (i.e. a theme for Mima and some rumored LB screen cap). Maybe it's just where I'm looking that's making me so tense. Cause I am one of those people that aren't to fond of major spoilers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on August 05, 2013, 07:31:11 am
Quick show of hands, who's first exposure to characters, especially the final boss and extra stage boss, is in the actual game?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 05, 2013, 09:53:04 am
This interview has a new DDC screenshot on the middle left (click to enlarge).
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/wam942_issue_04_cs1e1_1000x_zpse59a0138.jpg)

The editor says the danmaku in it looks like staff and musical notes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 05, 2013, 10:00:38 am
>New Screenshot
:D
>Can't see anything notable in it
D:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 05, 2013, 10:49:25 am
Hmm... ZUN wouldn't release a random screenshot willynilly. He should not reveal the important characters at this stage, which means this is most likely from Stage 4.

Surprisingly, this screenshot has added weight to my pet theory: DDC's Stage 4 will pay homage to PCB Stage 4. DDC's Stage 4 boss will either be music-related, or will be the Prismrivers again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Arcorann on August 05, 2013, 10:54:08 am
This interview has a new DDC screenshot on the middle left (click to enlarge).
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/wam942_issue_04_cs1e1_1000x_zpse59a0138.jpg)

The editor says the danmaku in it looks like staff and musical notes.
Close-up of the screenshot. (http://coolier.sytes.net/th_up4/img/th4_5594.jpg) Wouldn't you know it, we can't see anything useful at all.

EDIT: Embedded:
(http://i.imgur.com/8NYUkCp.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 05, 2013, 11:03:21 am
Thanks for the close-up, Arcorann. At least we can see something.
And I hope this new boss is not Prismrivers Sister. Though I am guessing this (new) boss uses some sort of stringed instrument, considering how it looks like she is dropping notes out of strings (or maybe its a music sheet, you decide)
EDIT: Actually, I think the boss int he screenshot is none of Prismrivers Sisters. The reason is because when you face Sekibanki or Kagerou as mid-bosses, you don't see their names in upper-left corner. If you were facing against Cirno, however, her name is still shown. So its safe to assume its a new boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 05, 2013, 11:16:13 am
It has five lines, like a normal sheet.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 05, 2013, 11:20:22 am
Yeah, I put the music sheet as a after though  since first thing what came in mind was stringed instrument.

inb4 the boss in Layla's ghost
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kafuu on August 05, 2013, 11:36:30 am
We all forgot about her. (http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/sonikkut/Th06RinSatsuki.jpg)
edit: changed image link
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kilgamayan on August 05, 2013, 12:39:16 pm
It's the fourth PrismReznor sister, the one that plays the accordion. She was kicked out of the group but has come back for revenge in the prevalent rage.

We all forgot about her.

Please do not link to that Wiki. Use en.touhouwiki.net instead.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: 7TC7 on August 05, 2013, 12:43:14 pm
We all forgot about her.

That was actually the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the abundance of yellow-ish color (even though the yellow coloring of rin satsuki is only fan made).
But considering everything, a poltergeist like the Prismrivers would fit in within the east/west-theme some are expecting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 05, 2013, 12:54:15 pm
PrismReznor
Frismrazzers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 05, 2013, 02:51:12 pm
In the name of all that is sacred, I sincerely pray that this is not the Prismriver's return. Mind you, I make that prayer for entirely selfish reasons, as fighting them was the only decidedly unfun part of PCB for me (even annoying little Chen wasn't all bad).

On the other hand, if it is them, I have to give ZUN props for coming up with these girls for a cameo. Sorta defies any expectations. Unless you're cuc, that is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: CyberAngel on August 05, 2013, 04:09:16 pm
A bit of a wild idea, but is there a Japanese analog of Pied Piper? If so, consider we might be on track of the one who made those youkai act up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Malyszeq on August 05, 2013, 04:32:50 pm
The story is about items becoming tsukumogami, so maybe it's a Biwa-bokuboku, or shamisen-choro?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 05, 2013, 06:28:31 pm
I can't even see the character behind all that light blocking the way, but her attacks definitely look very cool.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MewMewHeart on August 05, 2013, 07:07:58 pm
Inb4theprismriversisterscomeback.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Shizzo on August 05, 2013, 07:09:21 pm
So the stage really happens at the sky doesn't it?  It's hard to say what exactly are those circles under Reimu though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Fumi on August 05, 2013, 07:20:40 pm
On a side note. It's a midboss and probably a new character.
Why?
The lack of upper-left corner name which only appears for characters already introduced and she has only one star, midbosses normally have 1 spell which, without counting the non-spell is always shown with a star.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 05, 2013, 07:21:06 pm
Inb4theprismriversisterscomeback.  :V
slowpoke.jpg
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 05, 2013, 07:39:12 pm
It's gotta be Layla. Or someone who relates to Siren.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MewMewHeart on August 05, 2013, 07:56:44 pm
slowpoke.jpg
I love you too Tengu. Caw caw!  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 05, 2013, 08:57:06 pm
Noone cares about frismrazzers. We're having a new musical toho and I'm adopting her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tengukami on August 05, 2013, 09:06:12 pm
I hope you're right. Gensokyo needs more musicians.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: PhantomSong on August 05, 2013, 09:08:49 pm
Noone cares about frismrazzers. We're having a new musical toho and I'm adopting her.
Shutupshutupshutup! Frismrazzers SHALL RETURN!

Also... the subject seems to be enveloped in effects. Expect latency on this boss as well.
(The yellow aura looks cool )
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kirin no Sora on August 05, 2013, 11:48:50 pm
We all forgot about her.

I am all for the introduction of the Kirin, at long last.

Yay for Rin Satuski's grand debut! It's about damn time!

It's gotta be Layla. Or someone who relates to Siren.

The former would be very odd, and Mystia Lorelai technically qualifies for the latter, maybe.

That said, if the fourth boss is actually Mystia, then color me surprised.

As for my predictions...

I think that it may be a composer, baton and all, rather than an actual music player. A director of a orchestras, and someone who has a much closer tie to the cause of the incident than the first three bosses, as Stage Four bosses tend to be.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gray21oh on August 06, 2013, 12:56:30 am
More than likely I'd say that this boss would be somebody new, but who knows...

It could be Lily White wearing spiked clothes and decided to take up music while it's not spring.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 06, 2013, 01:07:07 am
I am all for the introduction of the Kirin, at long last.

Yay for Rin Satuski's grand debut! It's about damn time!

The former would be very odd, and Mystia Lorelai technically qualifies for the latter, maybe.

That said, if the fourth boss is actually Mystia, then color me surprised.

As for my predictions...

I think that it may be a composer, baton and all, rather than an actual music player. A director of a orchestras, and someone who has a much closer tie to the cause of the incident than the first three bosses, as Stage Four bosses tend to be.

ZUN should pull a capcom and come out with the first male boss in Touhou.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on August 06, 2013, 04:37:48 am
ZUN should pull a capcom and come out with the first male boss in Touhou.
I remember in an interview he said he originally thought of Myouren to be UFO's final boss, but having an old man as the final boss would be too weird

(But I mean, he turned the Prince into a woman, so...)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 06, 2013, 05:12:57 am
The note bullets are already contained in the web trial version as "bullet5.png".

4 colors for eighth notes, 8 colors for quarter rests.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/bullet5_zps82721453.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 06, 2013, 05:24:50 am
Has any of the previous games featured those quarter note bullets? I can atleast tell that those octave bullets look different to what we ahve seen before.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gpop on August 06, 2013, 05:49:54 am
Has any of the previous games featured those quarter note bullets? I can atleast tell that those octave bullets look different to what we ahve seen before.
The Prismrivers had quarter note bullets in both PCB and PoFV, but I believe they were different sprites and were just solid red notes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 06, 2013, 05:50:07 am
They've changed. These note bullets have a much more obvious hitbox, and are going to work in a manner similar to 10D's arrow bullets. I'm a bit scared of the rest bullets though, they don't seem to have a very well-defined hitbox indication.

At the very least, I for one am thankful that they aren't add-blended in-game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MewMewHeart on August 06, 2013, 06:35:56 am
They've changed. These note bullets have a much more obvious hitbox, and are going to work in a manner similar to 10D's arrow bullets. I'm a bit scared of the rest bullets though, they don't seem to have a very well-defined hitbox indication.

At the very least, I for one am thankful that they aren't add-blended in-game.
Let us not speak of Ten Desire arrow bullets... I'M LOOKING AT YOU MOEHERMIT!  :matsuriscowl:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Helepolis on August 06, 2013, 07:03:02 am
From sprite sheet they look like animating music notes. So prepare to dodge wobbly wobbly music notes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on August 06, 2013, 09:28:59 am
UFO MarisaB is capable of being used well (http://score.royalflare.net/th12/replay12/th12_ud0ecf.rpy), what are you talking about.
 ;) ;) ;) ;)
I fail to see how Marisa B contributed to anything here that Sanae B couldn't do. Still, holy fuck ! Gratz, I suppose.

Anyone else can feel some incoming reveal about Sakuya in their bones? I mean, it's been a long time and it's a perfect opportunity while she's still here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 06, 2013, 10:58:07 am
They've changed. These note bullets have a much more obvious hitbox, and are going to work in a manner similar to 10D's arrow bullets. I'm a bit scared of the rest bullets though, they don't seem to have a very well-defined hitbox indication.

At the very least, I for one am thankful that they aren't add-blended in-game.
Let's just hope they won't bounce around and just go straight down.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Haganeproductio on August 06, 2013, 02:40:01 pm
The Prismriver sisters' notes were already annoying and now more notes? Oh god, this doesn't mean good.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 06, 2013, 03:03:01 pm
I fail to see how Marisa B contributed to anything here that Sanae B couldn't do. Still, holy fuck ! Gratz, I suppose.

Haha, why are you saying gratz? It's not my run lol. Unless you mean gratz on proving my point so splendidly.   :)

With regards to the rest of your post; the point wasn't to show that MarisaB necessarily can do something that SanaeB can't do (unless you want to count shooting backwards) but merely to showcase that if you are skilled enough you can get very beautiful results out of MarisaB. The guy implied that MarisaB was incapable of being used well and I wanted to show him that it simply isn't true.

It feels silly for me to defend Marisa given that I've always been terrible at using her but MarisaB really isn't half as bad as people make her sound like. She's weaker, harder to use, has a weaker bomb and doesn't really give you any benefits over the other characters and given that UFO is widely considered a quite difficult game even to clear normally without any restrictions or scoring efforts, it's natural that she'd be considered pretty much useless. However, a skilled enough player like the japanese superplayer monster powerhouse called Shin you aren't really bothered by her drawbacks. Think of her as some sort of hardcore mode in a different kind of videogame that removes healthbars, makes enemies harder to kill among other things i suppose.  :V

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Greatest Dog on August 06, 2013, 04:37:57 pm
The guy implied that MarisaB was incapable of being used well and I wanted to show him that it simply isn't true.

Yea, I should have worded that differently (especially when I knew about that score already...). Still, it's like you said. Weaker, difficult to use, weak bomb and the "spread" part is largely negligible to kill anything faster than any other shot while the reverse shot has very niche uses. As much as I would have loved to show off and get a Lunatic 1cc with her rather than SanaeA (Which people don't regard that highly, do they?), just... no. I couldn't.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 06, 2013, 04:42:40 pm
I can't say for sure what the general consensus is but if i were to divide characters up into ease-of useness i would say that top tier characters are SanaeB and ReimuA while SanaeA, MarisaA and ReimuB are mid-tier and MarisaB is the only one that's really hard to use.

So if you were using SanaeA for the purpose of not clearing the game with an "overpowered" character then I'd say she served the purpose.

EDIT: Now, back to the topic on hand. Sorry for the derailing everybody.  :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on August 06, 2013, 04:52:14 pm
I always liked her more than MarisaA because you can't move during MarisaA's bomb. And her shots are blinding.

These note bullets have a much more obvious hitbox,
I don't know if I'd say that. PoFV notes were just disks with the image of a note on them (plain circles, in other words), and PCB's were never actually used as a weapon. These new ones look annoying because the glowing ring around them (which presumably represents the actual shape of the bullet) seems like it would be hard to see when they're close to each other, or your hitbox.

The rest bullets don't seem like something that would be fired at you like a normal bullet, at least. They'll probably drift sideways or something. Hopefully.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 07, 2013, 02:12:41 pm
I thought about Ten Desires for a while and thought that the song name "Raise the Flag of Rebellion" implied that Mamizou was a big part of the next game. This has been said already. I don't know if the next game is Hopeless Masquerade, or Double Dealing Characters. Now you might say why Hopeless Masquerade is one of my options. It is, because Mamizou was a big part in the game. And there was a sense of rebellion in the fighting and tournament. I felt like it was rebelling that Gensokyo had no religion, so all the religion leaders tried to make Gensokyo believe in their rituals and ceremonies.

If it isn't Hopeless Masquerade, then it should be Double Dealing Characters. Double Dealing Characters also has that rebellion vibe. Except it is much more obvious and is the main problem, unless the corrupted weapons are the main problem. We still don't know which one is the main problem and which one is the side dish. If the main one is the rebellion, I feel like Mamizou is the final boss. If the rebelling problem is just a side effect, then Mamizou can be the fifth stage boss, or the extra stage boss. I think that she would qualify as a fifth stage boss if she is included in the final game.

Anything I get wrong or you disagree on?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on August 07, 2013, 02:41:31 pm
I thought about Ten Desires for a while and thought that the song name "Raise the Flag of Rebellion" implied that Mamizou was a big part of the next game. This has been said already. I don't know if the next game is Hopeless Masquerade, or Double Dealing Characters. Now you might say why Hopeless Masquerade is one of my options. It is, because Mamizou was a big part in the game. And there was a sense of rebellion in the fighting and tournament. I felt like it was rebelling that Gensokyo had no religion, so all the religion leaders tried to make Gensokyo believe in their rituals and ceremonies.

If it isn't Hopeless Masquerade, then it should be Double Dealing Characters. Double Dealing Characters also has that rebellion vibe. Except it is much more obvious and is the main problem, unless the corrupted weapons are the main problem. We still don't know which one is the main problem and which one is the side dish. If the main one is the rebellion, I feel like Mamizou is the final boss. If the rebelling problem is just a side effect, then Mamizou can be the fifth stage boss, or the extra stage boss. I think that she would qualify as a fifth stage boss if she is included in the final game.

Anything I get wrong or you disagree on?
I think this is the rebellion game implied by "Raise the Flag of Rebellion". I don't think there's any way Mamizou will be the final boss. What a let down that would be. 5th stage boss, I could go with that. Seems like a stretch but still.
I also have a feeling that the weapon thing will be more a gimmick rather then a real plot point. Like, maybe some boss will have a power which could explain the weapons and maybe someone will even make that connection in game but I think that will be it. I don't really have a reason so much as I just think ZUN should stay away from the situation of the actual player. ZUN's games show 3 people doing the same thing at the same time and never running into each other, and that would be a pain to explain in plot terms, in game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on August 07, 2013, 03:29:18 pm
I hope stage 4,5,6 and extra stage boss`s new danmaku bullets will shoot animal shape bullets without shapeshifting.

Remember the fan-made game called ''The Last Comer''?
the stage boss shoots animal shape bullets too.


Do you think that ZUN is aware about touhou fan-made games like from Tasofro`s other touhou games that aren`t canon?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on August 08, 2013, 02:02:29 am
Quote
Do you think that ZUN is aware about touhou fan-made games like from Tasofro`s other touhou games that aren`t canon?
I'm sure it's pretty much impossible for him not to know
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on August 08, 2013, 03:34:15 am
<snip>
I thought the implied rebellion was the youkai against Miko, hence Mamizou crossing the border to lead it, only to find out the four PCs already beat her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: T3hCoM on August 08, 2013, 11:57:36 pm
I thought about Ten Desires for a while and thought that the song name "Raise the Flag of Rebellion" implied that Mamizou was a big part of the next game. This has been said already. I don't know if the next game is Hopeless Masquerade, or Double Dealing Characters. Now you might say why Hopeless Masquerade is one of my options. It is, because Mamizou was a big part in the game. And there was a sense of rebellion in the fighting and tournament. I felt like it was rebelling that Gensokyo had no religion, so all the religion leaders tried to make Gensokyo believe in their rituals and ceremonies.

If it isn't Hopeless Masquerade, then it should be Double Dealing Characters. Double Dealing Characters also has that rebellion vibe. Except it is much more obvious and is the main problem, unless the corrupted weapons are the main problem. We still don't know which one is the main problem and which one is the side dish. If the main one is the rebellion, I feel like Mamizou is the final boss. If the rebelling problem is just a side effect, then Mamizou can be the fifth stage boss, or the extra stage boss. I think that she would qualify as a fifth stage boss if she is included in the final game.

Anything I get wrong or you disagree on?

Seems kinda weird to have her as a regular boss in this game, considering she was already a boss on TD. I could see her as the EX midboss, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on August 09, 2013, 02:55:26 am
I'm pretty sure the bosses are actually effected. I don't think it slows down the bullets, but it seems to effect the rate at which they appear. I recall having an easier time supergrazing the mermaid's first spell with SakuyaA, seemingly because my shots slowed it down. I could be mistaken though. In fact, I'll double check.

edit: I guess I was wrong. huh

Either way SakuyaA is ridiculous.
WAIT

I was right after all. She does affect the firing rate of bosses. I confirmed it with Karisa, and it can indeed be used to graze Wakaface's spell more easily.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kafuu on August 09, 2013, 03:10:13 am
FYI, here's a summary about the Princess Who Wore a Bowl:

Once, there was an old man who wanted a daughter. He prayed to the Kannon of Hase Temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hase-dera), and his wife gave birth to a daughter. When her mother passed away, Kannon told the daughter to put a big bowl on her head. When she did, the bowl was stuck and couldn't be taken down.

The girl was mistreated by her stepmother. She attempted to drown herself, but the bowl kept her from sinking. She was rescued by an aristocrat, and became a servant in his family. The noble man's fourth son fell in love with the girl, but his mother was against marrying a woman of low birth. So his older brothers set up a contest: if she can win against all their wives, the son can marry her.

The night before the contest, the bowl broke, revealing her beautiful face. She won the contests of singing, dancing and knowledge. They lived happily ever after.
I found this pic on 2ch
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/sonikkut/1375973901835.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on August 09, 2013, 03:39:31 am
Hasa-dera is almost a given by now, huh?

Well, if that's the case, I am highly expective of her plot involvement, Ability and, most important, Music Theme~
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: PhantomSong on August 09, 2013, 07:30:10 pm
Seems kinda weird to have her as a regular boss in this game, considering she was already a boss on TD. I could see her as the EX midboss, though.
Two words:
Yuyuko Saigyouji
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on August 09, 2013, 07:46:14 pm
Two more: Aya Shameimaru.
I can't see Mamizou really involved in this though. That would be a second time in a row she, a new girl in Gensokyo suddenly turned out to be the partner of the incident perpetrator (first being HM). That's another ZUN-girlfriend tier popularity boost.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: T3hCoM on August 09, 2013, 08:03:41 pm
Two words:
Yuyuko Saigyouji

What I meant was two appearances IN A ROW. Forgot to clarify that.

Two more: Aya Shameimaru.
I can't see Mamizou really involved in this though. That would be a second time in a row she, a new girl in Gensokyo suddenly turned out to be the partner of the incident perpetrator (first being HM). That's another ZUN-girlfriend tier popularity boost.

If the "this game's incident is caused by the previous game's incident (not counting the fighting/spin-off games)" trend is still going, that could be an excuse to involve her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on August 09, 2013, 11:16:42 pm
Well, even if Mamizou isn't a boss she should at least show up in a stage. 
Quick question, how many times has dialog been delivered by someone who isn't going to be fighting. Kanako does it in SA, right?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Limian on August 09, 2013, 11:26:09 pm
Kanako? I know Suwako talks in ReimuA's extra stage, but it could be that Kanako appears for other shottypes.
There's also Mima, Shinki and Eirin in their respective penultimate stages (and Yumemi in the cutscene before Chiyuri's battle, if you want to count that). Reimu also speaks before Sakuya fights Yukari in IaMP and there's probably other examples in the fighters. And if we want to stretch it, Genji in SoEW and your partners in SA and IN (if you use a solo character).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on August 10, 2013, 04:20:50 am
Mm.. isn't the game supposed to come out like right now? Possible download later tomorrow? I believe comiket has already started.. Surprised by the lack of posts!
Touhou things are being sold on the last day.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 10, 2013, 06:45:59 am
Mm.. isn't the game supposed to come out like right now? Possible download later tomorrow? I believe comiket has already started.. Surprised by the lack of posts!
Please do not talk about piracy. You should support ZUN by buying his games so he can get more beer! so he can continue making the games!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kimmachinima on August 10, 2013, 02:51:39 pm
A newbie question: SakuyaA's bomb does something or it's just buggy? I'm really confused about that, because I've seen no pratical effect of it in-game.

Thanks~
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on August 10, 2013, 03:12:00 pm
Please do not talk about piracy. You should support ZUN by buying his games so he can get more beer! so he can continue making the games!
Fixed. Seriously though, I doubt touhou pays too many of the bills. Slightly less seriously though, the beer directly leads to the making of games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Serela on August 10, 2013, 03:15:55 pm
Please do not talk about piracy. You should support ZUN by buying his games so he can get more beer! so he can continue making the games!
also because Don't Talk About Piracy is one of the big forum rules
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Anre on August 10, 2013, 03:44:44 pm
Where did you see piracy in his post? Not all people live in Japan. Those who don't - download games from online shops. Is this wrong in any way?

Actually, I haven't noticed by this moment that forum has premoderation. Thus it's really strange why the post was even shown, then deleted and the quotes of some guys later didn't. I guess some person feels better playing the king? A king of paranoid captchas (implying registration and posting)...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Quwanti on August 10, 2013, 03:46:01 pm
A newbie question: SakuyaA's bomb does something or it's just buggy? I'm really confused about that, because I've seen no pratical effect of it in-game.

Thanks~
It clears the bullets around here, but not the whole screen. Then a "timer" starts (a big circle around Sakuya), which when disappears grants her 3 bomb pieces. During that time she can be hit, but can't die. It will only autocollect all the items.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drayen on August 10, 2013, 03:59:36 pm
Yea, basically sakuya's A is pretty overpowered since it somewhats let you double dip the bomb.. not as overpowered as marisaB forever-lasting bomb though!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Janitor Morgan on August 10, 2013, 04:34:24 pm
Where did you see piracy in his post? Not all people live in Japan. Those who don't - download games from online shops. Is this wrong in any way?

ZUN doesn't distribute digitally; I'll let that answer your question.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 10, 2013, 04:52:13 pm
Maybe its just me not bothering to check it out, but since you people say the game comes out during the last day of COmiket, when IS the last day of this year's Comiket? I guess it doesn't matter that much, as unless its tomorrow, I will probably be at school when the first footage/screenshots come out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on August 10, 2013, 04:58:32 pm
I recall that when Ten Desires came out, the wiki already had their names at the very least at 11:00 PM (Mexico Time, at least)

So... if history repeats itself, tomorrow around that time should happen that as well (Which is... umm...36 hours from this post)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 10, 2013, 09:21:34 pm
Actually, I haven't noticed by this moment that forum has premoderation. Thus it's really strange why the post was even shown, then deleted and the quotes of some guys later didn't. I guess some person feels better playing the king? A king of paranoid captchas (implying registration and posting)...
i like the passive-aggressive pokes showing through the guise of "didn't read the rules lol", good job please continue
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on August 11, 2013, 01:56:49 am
A newbie question: SakuyaA's bomb does something or it's just buggy? I'm really confused about that, because I've seen no pratical effect of it in-game.

Thanks~
I realize this was already answered, but I think it was a little vague, so I'll also explain it.

When you use SakuyaA's bomb, it clears a few bullets around you and auto-collects items (and does fail spells, unlike SA MarisaC's similar bomb).
If you're hit within a certain amount of time after that, it clears all bullets and auto-collects items again.
If you're not hit within that time, you recover 3 bomb parts (meaning you only spent 5/8 of a bomb).

So SakuyaA's bomb can give you two bullet clears for 1 bomb, or one for 5/8 of a bomb, The trade-off is that it does no damage.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Formless God on August 11, 2013, 02:01:22 am
How long will it take for Jaimers to perfect Stage 6 this time?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Giratina93 on August 11, 2013, 02:20:20 am
How long will it take for Jaimers to perfect Stage 6 this time?

Judging from his perfect run of Ten Desire's Stage 6... if the games around the same level of easiness as TD, then within 24 hours of getting it. But if it's as hard as Stage 3 leads up to believe... It may take him a little while.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 11, 2013, 02:38:39 am
It better take him a while. We need a hard game after last time!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 11, 2013, 05:22:56 am
Considering spell practice it'd probably take less than a day whatever it turns out to be.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: EthanSilver on August 11, 2013, 05:28:26 am
When you use SakuyaA's bomb...
In addition, Sakuya A can "death-bomb" during her bomb to cancel out (most) bullets hitting her for free (ie, hitting "bomb" as a bullet hits you will "eat" up the bullet rather than making you lose the bomb's effect). Try it out with the autobomb patch for a good example. Some bullets don't seem to be cancelable though, such as lasers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 11, 2013, 03:22:38 pm
So, when is estimated leak start time? I want to know how early I need to sleep.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: not ZUNs wife on August 11, 2013, 06:43:04 pm
So, when is estimated leak start time? I want to know how early I need to sleep.

Let's see, it's almost 4 AM at Comiket at the time of this message. So I'd wager around 12 hours.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on August 11, 2013, 07:22:03 pm
 9 hours before the actual release.

once it is already noon, TH14 new characters will be revealed!
musical youkai might be stage 4 boss, stage 5 boss might be the mirror youkai, stage 6 boss might be the girl who wear a bowl hat.
ex-midboss might be mamizou, then who will be the extra stage boss?

now i`m off to bed and see what`s gonna happen?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 11, 2013, 07:34:46 pm
Hopefully the leaks come before 9 a.m. where I live (UTC +3 those who wonder my timezone).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mino ☆ on August 11, 2013, 07:39:42 pm
DDC HYPE!  ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 11, 2013, 07:41:12 pm
I'm looking forward to spending 8 hours of lectures refreshing. (not really)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 11, 2013, 07:49:48 pm
Calling bets right now. I'm going to guess what their abilities are :3

Stage 4 boss, if the music loli, has the ability to make music come alive and beat the crap out of Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya

Stage 5 boss (I've already stated this) has the ability to animate objects.

Stage 6 boss has the ability to control will.

I have no idea what the EX-Boss is supposed to do. It's like impossible to guess by what's going on in the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on August 11, 2013, 08:10:48 pm
In addition, Sakuya A can "death-bomb" during her bomb to cancel out (most) bullets hitting her for free (ie, hitting "bomb" as a bullet hits you will "eat" up the bullet rather than making you lose the bomb's effect). Try it out with the autobomb patch for a good example. Some bullets don't seem to be cancelable though, such as lasers.
I saw your post about that earlier, and tried it but almost never managed to get it (and I have significantly higher than a 50% rate at consistently deathbombing in MoF). It doesn't seem exploitable non-TAS without getting lucky, even if you deliberately ram bullets. I think it might be a frame-precise glitch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Monkeypro257 on August 11, 2013, 08:19:43 pm
Does anyone have any ideas to which spell cards seem to make the most sense to having an Overdrive difficulty?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on August 11, 2013, 08:25:44 pm
I'd lol if Kagerou's final spell got an overdrive, holy shit would that be unimaginably hard.

Also really hype for this!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Darkness1 on August 11, 2013, 09:07:29 pm
I would guess that the rebellion ability and "object animation" ability belongs to the EX and final boss each.
HYPE
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 11, 2013, 09:11:22 pm
I'd lol if Kagerou's final spell got an overdrive, holy shit would that be unimaginably hard.

Also really hype for this!

Is the return of Last Words possible?
Hoping for those so there would be more unique spells, and another song due to Last Words having their own theme.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: not ZUNs wife on August 11, 2013, 09:12:02 pm
Hype indeed. I'll probably wake up at 8 just to slap F5 and watch the game explode in slow motion across the internet.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 11, 2013, 10:31:20 pm
Does anyone have any ideas to which spell cards seem to make the most sense to having an Overdrive difficulty?

Selflessly requesting ALL OF THEM!

I can think of 6 spells already that could use a challenge-adding makeover.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 11, 2013, 10:34:21 pm
Imagine if Sekibanki's final spell shot lasers at the speed and quantity of Byakuren's second nonspell.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 11, 2013, 10:40:48 pm
I am also thinking Wakasagihime's first spell could be awesome if it got a speed/density upgrade.

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mino ☆ on August 11, 2013, 10:43:59 pm
Wakasagihime's first spell with two crossing spirals instead of one!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 11, 2013, 11:00:58 pm
TBH the first spell is reasonably dense, it just needs the bullets to spawn closer so that circlegrazing is impossible.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: PhantomSong on August 11, 2013, 11:13:05 pm
I'm hoping DDC isn't like PCB and more based on bullet patterns than aesthetics . I mean, a good chunk of the boss patterns do seem to be random. I don't know, what do you guys think?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: nintendonut888 on August 11, 2013, 11:35:19 pm
I'm hoping DDC isn't like PCB and more based on bullet patterns than aesthetics . I mean, a good chunk of the boss patterns do seem to be random. I don't know, what do you guys think?

I think it strikes a perfect balance between aesthetics and patterns. Then again, I would compare it to PCB, so different standards? :V

Anyway, I am really looking forward to this. Depending on what the second half looks like, DDC may become my new favorite Toohoo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on August 11, 2013, 11:52:53 pm
Game is being released tommorow.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 12:09:32 am
I literally worked at adjusting my sleeping schedule (thank god for vacation) so I could stay up as late as possible for this.  I get so excited watching streams whenever a new game gets released, then guessing what the character is based on what we see before the wiki updates!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on August 12, 2013, 12:11:54 am
So did I. A traditional Touhou release all-nighter ahoy. Any livestreams or news already?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aya Reiko on August 12, 2013, 12:27:07 am
ZUN doesn't distribute digitally; I'll let that answer your question.
I kinda wish he did, though...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 12:29:29 am
I'm just gonna make RPGMaker Sprites of the characters from the demo for now...because I have nothing better to do while I wait!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gpop on August 12, 2013, 12:34:56 am
I kinda wish he did, though...
This would be a question of mine if I could go to AWA
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Flan27 on August 12, 2013, 12:38:11 am
Aaahhh, it's going to come out today, I think.  Japan is like, 16 hours ahead of the US, but I still don't really know what that means for the exact time it will become available.  It was good fun trying to find a source and freaking out when the demo came out, so I guess we can only look forward to similar craziness tonight.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 12, 2013, 12:46:15 am
The game is coming out not to long from now. Hype is overwhelming right now. :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 12, 2013, 12:57:33 am
just another friendly reminder that touhou games are retail and talk about "finding" them is not exactly hiding any rum-drinking swashbuckling dubloon-plundering intentions

don't want to walk the plank if you catch my drift
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sungho on August 12, 2013, 01:05:16 am
Might not be the best place to ask, but does anyone know the reason why Comiket has a different schedule this summer?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 01:07:36 am
yaaar har fiddle dee dee
being a pirate is not alright with the Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
don't be a pirate on Touhou 14
we are not pirates


I mean, what
no, I wasn't singing
what are you talking about
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lreaper9 on August 12, 2013, 01:09:25 am
Froths at mouth* how many more hours!?  Stream stream stream stream  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 01:12:04 am
I think about 6 or so. Time to stay up until 3 am again!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 01:13:12 am
Get ye hype.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 12, 2013, 01:19:22 am
What are you talking about Drake. Didn't you know that all MoTK'ers are in Japan at comiket time?

Surely they are just having difficulty finding ZUN's booth.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 01:31:43 am
I wonder how everything's going at Comitek.
Some of my friends estimated that they sold the first copy 30 minutes ago, but I don't believe them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 12, 2013, 01:46:48 am
The game is already sold out. This time ZUN's reserve lasted about 1 hour.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gpop on August 12, 2013, 01:53:31 am
The game is already sold out. This time ZUN's reserve lasted about 1 hour.
holy shit
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sagus on August 12, 2013, 01:53:45 am
The game is already sold out. This time ZUN's reserve lasted about 1 hour.
huh

Just curious, but do you know how many copies he usually has?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gray21oh on August 12, 2013, 01:54:33 am
The game is already sold out. This time ZUN's reserve lasted about 1 hour.
How many copies is there usually estimated to be?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sakurei on August 12, 2013, 01:57:32 am
he usually sells 1000 copies. that seems to have been the case until now, anyway (from what I have heard) and a little before he was done, ZUN twittered that he'd only seel 1 copy each person, so people must have been buying more than 1 copy, causing him to run out faster.

according to zengeku, GFW didn't even last an hour (he was there at the time etc)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 02:01:11 am
It actually doesn't surprise me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 02:05:31 am
The game is already sold out. This time ZUN's reserve lasted about 1 hour.

oh my god, are you serious
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mino ☆ on August 12, 2013, 02:07:44 am
http://t.co/hzac1WKZya

Assuming no one's posted this already. It's a pic of DDC's back cover.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 02:10:42 am
I'm actually more surprised that he can handle 1000 customers in a hour. That's like, what, 3 seconds per person? It makes sense that some of them buys multiple copies.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 02:12:42 am
How long until someone streams it?

he usually sells 1000 copies. that seems to have been the case until now, anyway (from what I have heard) and a little before he was done, ZUN twittered that he'd only seel 1 copy each person, so people must have been buying more than 1 copy, causing him to run out faster.

according to zengeku, GFW didn't even last an hour (he was there at the time etc)

(http://i.imgur.com/96heeiH.jpg)

I guess someone managed to buy more than one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on August 12, 2013, 02:13:00 am
I want moar images :O

BTW ZUN didn't fix Reimu's right knuckle, I am sure that she can beat Unzan in a boxing duel using that hand.

BTW2 from the disk cover I translated something like:

"System requirements: 十分高速なCPU ( A CPU fast enough)" so specific xD
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on August 12, 2013, 02:14:25 am
oh hey the heart bullets are back yay


obligatory "where dat stream at"
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on August 12, 2013, 02:16:56 am
http://t.co/hzac1WKZya

Assuming no one's posted this already. It's a pic of DDC's back cover.

Arrows in what looks like TD Stage 4, expanding suns /w hearts, and interesting knive patterns?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 02:22:41 am
Dangit, my brother kicked me off the main computer to mess around on the internet.
He doesn't understand the importance of this! I'm sure if he didn't hate Touhou, he'd be sitting next to me!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 12, 2013, 02:24:12 am
From the back cover:
Quote
Just as the tools are causing confusion by acting on their own,
the normally calm youkai begin to run amok.
This is the greatest crisis of Gensokyo...

There are reported to be 21 songs in this game, more than the usual 17.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on August 12, 2013, 02:25:54 am
holy crap!

possible Phantasm stage or something of the like?

jesus this just keeps getting better and better!

edit: also guess that alternate route theory seems more plausible now
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 02:29:00 am
I found this on tumblr... anyone know if this is legit?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/941047bed11ddd8d6117e5d882c714a7/tumblr_mrebzvdE5b1s3pj4zo1_500.jpg (http://24.media.tumblr.com/941047bed11ddd8d6117e5d882c714a7/tumblr_mrebzvdE5b1s3pj4zo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mino ☆ on August 12, 2013, 02:30:17 am
I found this on tumblr... anyone know if this is legit?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/941047bed11ddd8d6117e5d882c714a7/tumblr_mrebzvdE5b1s3pj4zo1_500.jpg (http://24.media.tumblr.com/941047bed11ddd8d6117e5d882c714a7/tumblr_mrebzvdE5b1s3pj4zo1_500.jpg)

No, that's fake. That image has been going around for like 2 days now. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 02:30:28 am
Oooh more music than usual!  I don't care if there's an alternate route or a second Extra stage (whether it's called Phantasm or something else).  Or even if it's got some certain trigger!  Anything will be cool.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 02:31:19 am
Well, damn. Looks like I'm staying up all night tonight.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on August 12, 2013, 02:31:40 am
From the back cover:
There are reported to be 21 songs in this game, more than the usual 17.

Last Word and Phantasm Stage plx
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 02:33:08 am
No, that's fake. That image has been going around for like 2 days now. :V

AH ok... good, because my god that drawing is soo ZUN but at an extreme level.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TheTeff007 on August 12, 2013, 02:35:02 am
1   .-   Title Screen
2   .-   Stage 1
3   .-   Boss 1
4   .-   Stage 2
5   .-   Boss 2
6   .-   Stage 3
7   .-   Boss 3
8   .-   Stage 4
9   .-   Boss 4
10   .-   Stage 5
11   .-   Boss 5
12   .-   Stage 6
13   .-   Boss 6
14   .-   Boss Last Spell
15   .-   Extra Stage
16   .-   Extra Theme
17   .-   Phantasm Stage
18   .-   Phantasm Boss
19   .-   Ending
20   .-   Staff Roll
21   .-   Last Word Theme


Maybe it's like this?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gpop on August 12, 2013, 02:35:42 am
Heart bullets in DDC

KOISHI CONFIRMED FOR DDC *shot*
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 02:36:47 am
This game gets better and better by the second.
I'm so excited now... when I wake up tommorow the fandom will have exploded :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mino ☆ on August 12, 2013, 02:36:47 am
1   .-   Title Screen
2   .-   Stage 1
3   .-   Boss 1
4   .-   Stage 2
5   .-   Boss 2
6   .-   Stage 3
7   .-   Boss 3
8   .-   Stage 4
9   .-   Boss 4
10   .-   Stage 5
11   .-   Boss 5
12   .-   Stage 6
13   .-   Boss 6
14   .-   Boss Last Spell
15   .-   Extra Stage
16   .-   Extra Theme
17   .-   Phantasm Stage
18   .-   Phantasm Boss
19   .-   Ending
20   .-   Staff Roll
21   .-   Last Word Theme


Maybe it's like this?

That was my original theory, but Phantasm seems too good to be true.

I think it might be like two different final bosses or something depending on if you used the cursed weapon or not.

Or maybe different stage 4s or something.

Time will only tell.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 02:38:52 am
Heart bullets in DDC

KOISHI CONFIRMED FOR DDC *shot*

Satori has used them too!

Satori con- *also shot*
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Messiah on August 12, 2013, 02:39:34 am
Anemic Reimu. Do not want.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 02:42:16 am
If there's a Phantasm, it all makes sense. 'Cause, you know, 7 x 2 = 14
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Karisa on August 12, 2013, 02:44:35 am
If there's a Phantasm, it all makes sense. 'Cause, you know, 7 x 2 = 14
By that logic, Marisa confirmed for a stage 4 boss of Touhou 16. Because 2, 4, 8, 16, obviously.

Anyway, I wouldn't be too surprised by there being another theme for the final spell. It'd fit with DDC's PCB parallels (shot types are Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya A/B, Cirno as stage 1 midboss), and it's not like PCB is the only official Touhou game with a final spell theme (it's in 1, 7, 8, 10.5, 12.3 apparently). Maybe I'm just expecting one after hearing one in Mystical Power Plant, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: T3hCoM on August 12, 2013, 02:48:36 am
Perhaps it could an alternate Stage 4 and/or 6 boss, like in IN? Keep in mind IN also had 21 songs.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 02:52:43 am
Only time can tell- Oh, who am I kidding. Pop those suckers into your computers and show them screenshots!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 12, 2013, 03:07:07 am
spoilers are start


Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 03:08:11 am
so many lives
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 03:09:32 am
Stormy... eh? Could this be the first main-game appearance of Iku?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:09:42 am
And so it begins. And maybe I haven't noticed this, but does those Yin Yang Orbs look infected?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:09:59 am
Looking cool!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 03:11:48 am
hi alice when did you dye your hair
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 12, 2013, 03:12:08 am
During game installation, a message would say you can wait and eat some snack.

For DDC full version, the snack is zunda-mochi, which is a mochi with smashed soybean fillings. It's a specialty of Sendai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:12:19 am
hi alice when did you dye your hair

And start wearing black.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:13:53 am
And start wearing black.
Emo Alice is emo
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:14:16 am
Don't link to 4chan in here, please.

- New character. Tsukumo Benben
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:15:11 am
Great, we now have a spoony bard
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:15:20 am
She looks real nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 03:15:41 am
I really like that design.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on August 12, 2013, 03:15:47 am
she's my waifu

What time does Comiket end? Or did it already end?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Monkeypro257 on August 12, 2013, 03:16:00 am
I wish I can buy the game already!!!

I need more info.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 03:18:16 am
She looks a little like Hieda no Akyuu.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 03:18:23 am
Don't link to 4chan in here, please.

- New character. Tsukumo Benben

This explains the musical bullets.

Is this really EMO Alice?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: nintendonut888 on August 12, 2013, 03:18:31 am
Wow, that name, and that design...I know her nickname to be already.

Ben Jammin'.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:18:37 am


But wait, there's more!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 03:18:49 am


bam world record rule 34

what do i win
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 03:19:06 am
ZUN's art really has improved since he started. She looks really cute, and I like how her guitar is

EDIT: And she has a sister?!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on August 12, 2013, 03:19:14 am
So the mid-boss of stage four is nameless?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 03:19:46 am
Invasion of the schoolgirls?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:20:23 am
The new musical duo every one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 03:20:55 am
Move over Prismriver sisters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:21:16 am
And they'll put on a music festival with the Prismrivers, Kyoko and Mystia!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:21:46 am
So the mid-boss of stage four is nameless?

It is being theorized that Based on conditions, you fight one or the other.

Also:



Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on August 12, 2013, 03:21:50 am
Oh wait, that new screenshot shows the mid-boss's official artwork, so maybe we do know her name...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:22:02 am
The second one looks like a Vocaloid
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 03:22:35 am
It is being theorized that Based on conditions, you fight one or the other.

Also:



That face of hers...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:23:23 am


uh
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 12, 2013, 03:23:59 am
Is that the stage 5 boss? She looks like a vampire for some reason.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 03:24:16 am
lol Reimu is not amused.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 03:24:30 am
The eyes of the midboss seem to be spaced too widely... as in the gap between them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 03:25:15 am


uh

What's her name? The transcribed part is unreadable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on August 12, 2013, 03:25:58 am
What's her name? The transcribed part is unreadable.

Kijin Seija from what I can tell
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:26:14 am
Seija Kijin
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:26:32 am
lol Reimu is not amused.

She usually isn't!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Quwanti on August 12, 2013, 03:27:46 am
Gameplay of the 4th to 6th stage boss on nicovideo. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21573607)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 03:27:55 am
oh lawd she's doing the SHAFT stare
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 03:28:02 am
Kijin Seija from what I can tell

Thanks.

Looks like the streams are happening.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21573607
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rei Scarlette on August 12, 2013, 03:29:34 am
So I noticed we are over 1000 posts, and going fast as expected. New topic time, or is that not really necessary?

That aside, these shots are certainly looking interesting. My copy can't arrive soon enough.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 03:30:00 am
Awww, Seija's so cute.
Totally calling that her and Seiga are going to get confused way too many times.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:30:14 am


Oh dear god.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 03:31:38 am


Oh dear god.

... That's the final boss?

But she is so young and cute.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on August 12, 2013, 03:31:53 am
holy fuck ahahahaha this is going to be amazing


jesus christ some of these spells are super dense even on normal, can't wait for lunatic!

Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:32:05 am
Incidentally, Benben's sister's name is Yatsuhashi.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 03:32:31 am
So adorable~
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 03:32:43 am
ZUN combined the myths... Should've known...
Oh, Issun used a bowl.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:32:57 am
Holy this is gonna be fun!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 03:33:13 am
ramen bowl hat :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Nimono on August 12, 2013, 03:33:15 am


Oh dear god.
Is...is that supposed to be Issun-boshi? Wow, I expected something more western considering how the first three bosses had western analogues...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 03:33:36 am


Oh dear god.

Someone finally beat Suika in loliness?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:33:49 am
So the final boss really is base on Issun Boshi (instanly reconnise by the mallet)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rei Scarlette on August 12, 2013, 03:34:57 am
Awww, Seija's so cute.
Totally calling that her and Seiga are going to get confused way too many times.

At least as often as people get Tojiko/Tokiko mixed up, I bet. It's... understandable, I guess, but it bothers me how often that is :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 03:35:18 am
So the final boss really is base on Issun Boshi (instanly reconnise by the mallet)
Don't forget the bowl-hat woman legend.
Oh, it was the bowl Issun traveled in.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 12, 2013, 03:35:43 am
Oh fuck, I leave for a few and come back to a shitload of pictures.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Quwanti on August 12, 2013, 03:36:35 am
Never expected to see the screen flipover gimmick in Touhou. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 12, 2013, 03:38:18 am
Isn't that the Panquin? Or whatever the ship from UFO was called.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:39:53 am
Never expected to see the screen flipover gimmick in Touhou. :V

That will be my undoing...I have trouble with stuff coming from behind since most cards don't utilize that!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 03:40:13 am
Never expected to see the screen flipover gimmick in Touhou. :V

It's nice to see an interface screw for the 5th boss again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 03:40:50 am
The stage 6 boss, Sukuna Shinmyoumaru, is like Issun Boshi right? well. She made herself bigger and took the weapons, because she wanted to pick up some chicks.

I am calling it now, Sukuna is a player, out to capture all the ladies of Gensokyo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 03:41:48 am


Oh dear god.
So I guess it's clear now that the perpetrator of the tsukumogami is this Sukuna, Seija is probably an oni(might even be a deva) if her name and horns is any indication, and two musician sisters/pair. This leave the Youkai rebellion for the extra boss or maybe we'll get something different.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Genso on August 12, 2013, 03:41:54 am
YES! Reversed controls! Been waiting for this gimmick! I am so happy I could cry! TT^TT
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 03:43:48 am
So I guess it's clear now that the perpetrator of the tsukumogami is this Sukuna, Seija is probably an oni(might even be a deva) if her name and horns is any indication, and two musician sisters/pair. This leave the Youkai rebellion for the extra boss or maybe we'll get something different.

Adding spoiler tags. Anyway, yeah, now we wait for the extra bosses. How long does that normally take guys?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 03:43:52 am
omg the final boss spawns a giant bowl and rides in it ahahahaha
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on August 12, 2013, 03:45:18 am
alright it is official this is by far the best final boss I've seen holy hell, and i love the little dance she does in her sprite
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: zferolie on August 12, 2013, 03:45:52 am
omg the final boss spawns a giant bowl and rides in it ahahahaha

I can't wait to see the videos of this show up on youtube. Nicovideo is going too slow for me right now
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:46:27 am
Sukuna makes the PC grow huge, with a huge hitbox to boot.  Then throws knives at them

Best boss fight?

Best boss fight.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 03:47:24 am
Sukuna makes the PC grow huge, with a huge hitbox to boot.  Then throws knives at them

Best boss fight?

Best boss fight.
THE DOUJINS

THINK OF THE DOUJINS
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:48:26 am
Sukuna makes the PC grow huge, with a huge hitbox to boot.  Then throws knives at them

Best boss fight?

Best boss fight.

I think I was screaming with delight upon seeing that part.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 03:48:32 am
Sukuna makes the PC grow huge, with a huge hitbox to boot.  Then throws knives at them

Best boss fight?

Best boss fight.

Agreed.



It's so deliciously evil.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Nimono on August 12, 2013, 03:48:46 am
Sukuna makes the PC grow huge, with a huge hitbox to boot.  Then throws knives at them

Best boss fight?

Best boss fight.
oh you have got to be kidding me


ahahahahaha this is going to be so much FUN XD
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 03:49:21 am
aaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAA
I cannot wait for this to come onto JBox
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 03:50:06 am
So... how long until extra?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mino ☆ on August 12, 2013, 03:50:23 am
STREAM GUYS.

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv148559891
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Genso on August 12, 2013, 03:51:33 am
In the last 15 minutes, this game has become my new favorite.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:51:43 am
Thanks to certain people, I found out that Seija might be base on Amanojaku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanojaku)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on August 12, 2013, 03:53:02 am
Ha!  Reference to Attack on Titans in one of the final boss's spell cards!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 03:53:11 am
That would...make sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 03:54:26 am
Agreed.



It's so deliciously evil.

The shrine maiden's stature matches her ego.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gpop on August 12, 2013, 03:55:54 am
so guys

How does it feel to be the fresh prince of Bel Air in Stage 5?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 03:56:57 am
I wonder why three of the new characters are barefoot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 03:57:29 am
I wonder why three of the new characters are barefoot.

"I feel like drawing toes today"
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 03:58:04 am
ZUN wants to practise drawing feet?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mino ☆ on August 12, 2013, 03:58:36 am
New link for stream:

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv148561506
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 04:00:17 am
I wonder why three of the new characters are barefoot.
barefeet, giantess, shaft tilt, ahegao

this game is fetishes ho
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Black Mage on August 12, 2013, 04:00:29 am
I wonder why three of the new characters are barefoot.

ZUN trying to master new stuff, I guess.  He surely improved, just compare the new characters with this:

(http://i.imgur.com/PpP3xNJ.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zil on August 12, 2013, 04:02:42 am
THE DOUJINS

THINK OF THE DOUJINS
Yes. The porn of the DDC characters will be unparalleled. I can't wait.

If I'm not mistaken, the stage 5 bosses theme is another Power of Darkness remix.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jana on August 12, 2013, 04:03:08 am
Stage 4 is very reminiscent of PCB, and 5/6 were probably throwbacks to IN (down to the sixth boss's title). All that remains to be seen is Extra now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 04:03:17 am
also see through skirts on stage 4 boss
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 12, 2013, 04:08:13 am
Oh no, not the Oval Bullets, anything but that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Gpop on August 12, 2013, 04:10:42 am
But seriously looking at all these characters, you can't get any more loli than that.

I swear, if EX stage is ANY MORE LOLI, I will swear off Koishi for the week. I mean goddamn.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 12, 2013, 04:13:03 am
That stage 5 boss looks so fun. I need to see someone perfect the whole thing on Lunatic.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Validon98 on August 12, 2013, 04:14:54 am
Watching those stages was a thing. I am terrified but at the same time I have to give a hand to ZUN for the Stage 5 boss gimmick. And to the Stage 6 survival. Holy crap it's so deceptively hard.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drayen on August 12, 2013, 04:18:15 am
I predict the final boss will overload touhou hentai boards with loli feet fetish...

I REALLY hope the 4 new tracks mean phantasm stage and last words.. that would leave 1 extra track for something else. I just hope Zun would make last words hard to unlock just like IN had you go out of your way to unlock everything. Ten desire's overdrives were fun but really lackluster : O
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hinacle on August 12, 2013, 04:21:50 am
...Is it just me or does the final boss not have her mallet on the cover of the game...?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 04:22:41 am
So here's what I take from the video:
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 04:24:35 am
Her 5th is a Shingeki parody, aptly named 進撃の小人(meaning "Attack on Midget").
:o
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Messiah on August 12, 2013, 04:25:07 am
Didn't like the other 3 bosses. Didn't like the poses. Liked last boss' right feet. Liked that badass Reimu bomb.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 04:29:08 am
Extra scares me from what's been shown so far...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jana on August 12, 2013, 04:32:23 am
I love the Extra boss's suit~
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 12, 2013, 04:32:55 am
The extra stage boss looks like C.Viper in a MJ costume.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 04:34:09 am

Anyway, even Reimu was surprised by the appearance of the EX boss.
By NSFW the tag means "too awesome".
Thanks, Jana.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 04:34:59 am
Extra boss looks like she's just chillin' in her portrait.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on August 12, 2013, 04:35:26 am
Yes, that image is a spoiler.
Um...  That link has a NSFW pic down in the row of pictures...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 04:35:37 am
If you're wondering, she doesn't seem to be related to the Tsukumo sis due of not sharing their family name though the two of them are extra mid-boss
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Blue on August 12, 2013, 04:36:46 am
Oh my goodness the extra boss has drum-based danmaku. I think we have another music trio here, even if she's not related to the Tsukumos.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 04:37:29 am
Um...  That link has a NSFW pic down in the row of pictures...
...Huh. Sometimes I'm glad I fail to notice certain things.
I'll just remove that link then.
Guess you should also edit that quote.
Sorry.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 04:38:16 am
That Ex boss
She's amazing
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 04:39:27 am
That first card, I just can't.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on August 12, 2013, 04:39:46 am
Soo... what IS her name? for as I am adding them to the navbox as we speak.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jana on August 12, 2013, 04:40:04 am
I'll just remove that link then.

I edited your post with a direct link to the image, so it should be fine now!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 04:40:27 am
Raiko Horikawa
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: an unmatched sock on August 12, 2013, 04:41:52 am
I told myself I wouldn't spoil any of it for me, and leave everything as a surprise for when I finally acquire the game.

Then I started reading all of the posts through the spoilers due to curiosity and temptation.

So much for that :V

I can at least keep most of the spells hidden from me, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 04:42:03 am
I edited your post with a direct link to the image, so it should be fine now!
Oh, I see.
Thanks, Jana.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 04:43:18 am
is the extra boss supposed to be the thunder drum youkai?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 04:44:41 am
is the extra boss supposed to be the thunder drum youkai?
Apparently, yes.
Wonder how that fits into the plot...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on August 12, 2013, 04:46:29 am
so wait is she basically the Shinto god Raijin?

(http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/slideshows/raijin-Tawaraya-Sotatsu-Thunder-Left-edo-era-kennin-ji-kyoto.jpg)

or least a thunder oni or something
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zakari on August 12, 2013, 04:48:29 am
Good morning everyone, let`s see how`s the new touhou this time?

>stage 4 boss a musician
>stage 5 boss another oni
>stage 6 boss bowl hat-chan
>ex boss dat drums and casual clothes


mfw..............


(http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/f7fcce5bcd4fa03aef3a52dc0a605bde1375783474_full.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/qFpNCEe.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Suikama on August 12, 2013, 04:50:15 am
#tw epilepsy
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on August 12, 2013, 04:52:59 am
Re-posted the normal run on YT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_fkp7IHhpo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_fkp7IHhpo)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 04:53:05 am
Yeah, that's kinda harsh on the eyes, Zakari.

Also do we officially know what any of the new characters are classified as?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatwFan123 on August 12, 2013, 04:57:48 am
So here's what I take from the video:
  • Sukuna is the one who starts the rebel for the small people/youkai tribe since they're angry because the others sees them as weak and Reimu didn't even realize they exist. What lead her to do this is the secret treasure, that mallet, which apparently has the power to make things bigger(as you can see in her 2nd spellcard and make our hitbox bigger in her 4th spellcard), so she's probably weak without it and it's implied that she probably enlarged herself with it.
    She uses the 輝針剣(roughly "Shining Needle Sword" ) in her 3rd spellcard, this is probably the one in the cover art. Her 5th is a Shingeki parody, aptly named 進撃の小人(meaning "Attack on Midget").
    The one in the video is ReimuB and she didn't mention anything about the tsukumogami, so the screenshot from Edible is probably ReimuA.
  • Seija is probably an acquaintance of Sukuna and joins the rebellion for the same reason. Her ability is probably to mirror things as we can see during her fight(and it's hella awesome!).
  • The sisters are a Tsukumogami, and you get to fight a different one for the boss depending on which weapon you choose, A fights Benben and B fights Yatsuhashi.

1) Attack on titan reference...? in TOUHOU?! God that anime is everywhere now...
2) yes she is...she probably has relation with suika and Yuugi too...her defeated looks....is very hentai...
3) Benten (Biwa) is probably biwabokuboku...and probably based on this : http://www.gov-online.go.jp/pdf/hlj_ar/vol_0020e/26-28.pdf
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Space Flower on August 12, 2013, 04:58:52 am
Something's wrong with this game
the bullets are coming from below
ffffffjdflkjsdofj
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 05:00:43 am

Anyway, even Reimu was surprised by the appearance of the EX boss.
By NSFW the tag means "too awesome".
Thanks, Jana.
She looks like an office lady, that pose... doujin material, right there. And yeah, she's totally Raijin.
And since the sisters know about the rebellion but Seija didn't recognize them, I guess the one behind the rebellion are Sukuna and Seija while the one behind the tsukumogami is this Raiko, though they might actually work together since Sukuna mentions the tools if you take the A route. The sisters also mention that they gained power not too long ago from the within the castle, which is why I think they worked together or maybe it's the other ability of Sukuna's mallet.

Now I'm off to Pixiv to see who's going to make the fastest fanpic.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aya Reiko on August 12, 2013, 05:06:02 am
So here's what I take from the video:
  • The sisters are a Tsukumogami, and you get to fight a different one for the boss depending on which weapon you choose, A fights Benben and B fights Yatsuhashi.
How long before we get Kogasa-Tsukumo pics?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tsalop on August 12, 2013, 05:10:55 am
Re-posted the normal run on YT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_fkp7IHhpo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_fkp7IHhpo)
Well... Judging by this video, this might be easier than TD in normal.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 05:16:35 am
Seems like the winner is some guy from 4chan with Benben art.
Though this guy takes the cake since he managed to snuck in Sukuna. http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=37744571
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Burcaresti on August 12, 2013, 05:17:49 am
Well... Judging by this video, this might be easier than TD in normal.

Not with the stage 5 reverse shmuck going on.
I'm never going to reach Stage 6.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on August 12, 2013, 05:18:39 am
I fell in love with the Extra Boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: ToyoRai on August 12, 2013, 05:21:15 am
This game probably has the least amough of hats of TOuhou games
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tsalop on August 12, 2013, 05:21:24 am
Not with the stage 5 reverse shmuck going on.
I'm never going to reach Stage 6.
Somehow I am already having nightmares about the reversed controls... I kind of hoped it would be in Extra.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 05:23:35 am
This game probably has the least amough of hats of TOuhou games
Final boss totally makes of for it though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: teefa85 on August 12, 2013, 05:24:44 am
Somehow I am already having nightmares about the reversed controls... I kind of hoped it would be in Extra.

Seconded.  If the fact that the controls are reversed doesn't get me...the bullets coming from what would usually be behind me will!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 05:26:29 am
I think this may be my new favorite Touhou game.
Such glorious boss fights. These reverse screen/giant hitbox fights are going to be fun...
Now I have an incentive to choose a Shot Type A.
Such glorious music.
All we need now are a Phantasm stage and Last Words.

Also, conspiracy/stupidity time. Last time, I promise
It's obvious that the Metal Gear series foreshadowed many Touhou things...
A snake working with/using a raven? Mind readers?
An achievement in Rising Revengance being called Thunder God? A line in a song including "The man in the mirror"?
Liquid Ocelot taking control of people/weapons?
Also, both Touhou and MG are video game series!
/jokingdone

Anyway... yeah, this game may just overtake IN as my favorite game in the series.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 12, 2013, 05:30:03 am
OH MY GOD WHAT
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: not ZUNs wife on August 12, 2013, 05:32:36 am
Hype indeed. I'll probably wake up at 8 just to slap F5 and watch the game explode in slow motion across the internet.

And so I did exactly that. I'm not going to spoil myself with gameplay videos before I can give it a shot, but the screenshots and rumors have gotten me excited so far. We're in that lovely border between speculation and canon.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Aya Reiko on August 12, 2013, 05:34:12 am
Soooo...

Does anyone have any intel on the characters aside from the names?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on August 12, 2013, 05:58:08 am
@Kingault

We already have Nitori!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 05:59:00 am
Soooo...

Does anyone have any intel on the characters aside from the names?
With the current video and the screenshot that we have now, I'm afraid what I put in my previous posts are all I can get.
The rest is up to those that have bought the game. Who's buying it here?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 12, 2013, 05:59:29 am
So is the reason for the ++ songs known yet?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 06:05:46 am
So is the reason for the ++ songs known yet?
You fight different boss on stage 4 depending on the weapon you chose, so I guess that's one extra song.
And wow, lots of Benben art(NSFW too). I agree that she looks nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: PJ on August 12, 2013, 06:08:55 am
You fight different boss on stage 4 depending on the weapon you chose, so I guess that's one extra song.
There's more than just one extra song, though. There's four extras.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 12, 2013, 06:09:36 am
i drew benben porn (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=37745360)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Eric on August 12, 2013, 06:13:00 am
(http://i.imgur.com/DC56jGd.jpg?1)

i don't even know why i did this but les get it

seriously this is probably going to be my favorite character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: TresserT on August 12, 2013, 06:13:51 am
I see someone's beaten extra... so I take it no phantasm? (And that survival spell! YES!)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on August 12, 2013, 06:14:09 am
I've ordered the game. It should arrive this morning.

It's 8am in England, btw.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 06:16:06 am
i drew benben porn (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=37745360)
So it was you! Didn't notice the artist name.
Give Drake a round of applause guys, fastest rule 34 for a new Touhou game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Critz on August 12, 2013, 06:17:52 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkOmQxvfcw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkOmQxvfcw)
Extra stage clear.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 06:22:35 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkOmQxvfcw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkOmQxvfcw)
Extra stage clear.
Thanks, Critz! Now let's see what I can get from it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tsalop on August 12, 2013, 06:22:47 am
"Drum up resistance" and "Raise the Flag of Rebellion!"
I wonder what is the title of the next Extra...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 12, 2013, 06:33:18 am
...That survival spell is ingenious.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Yatakarasu on August 12, 2013, 06:38:24 am
At first I was like what the hell is going on in that survival. Then it became awesome.

That boss song is also amazing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: monhan on August 12, 2013, 07:02:46 am
Okay then, this is what I get, though I might be wrong
Sukuna and Seija wanted to start a rebellion for the small tribe and started all this when Sukuna got the mallet. Other than making things bigger, the mallet also seems to be able to give magic powers(or conscience) to tools, which were given to Benben, Yatsuhashi, and Raiko who were just tools(their instruments, probably). Raiko took advantage of her and takes all the magic power she needs until she no longer needs the mallet. From here, the three went to start a rebellion for the freedom of tools from humans control.
I dunno what her ability is but for the connection to Raijin, there's the fact that you're fighting her in the middle of the storm that she made and she generates thunder balls. She herself is not the god Raijin, though she might as well become one now. Since there's others who can utilize lightning, maybe hers is "manipulation of storms"?
In the end, Reimu let her go(but not before saying that tools should just shut up and be used, what a bitch) and Raiko obeys. After that she says that she, and maybe the sisters, are going to held a concert(Prismriver vs Tsukumogamis incoming!) and finish the conversation by quoting a certain drummer from the outside world.
The heroine's weapons are probably acting up because of the mallet. As for whether Sukuna helped Raiko willingly or not(probably by saying that she'll help with the rebellion), that's probably in the ending.

But remember that this is ReimuB, who knows what she'll say if you use the cursed weapon.
That's all I guess, I'll leave the rest to the experts and those that have the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Greatest Dog on August 12, 2013, 07:26:47 am
so uhhh
how quickly do we get a vpatch for 90FPS stuff?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Error on August 12, 2013, 08:25:48 am
Lets see...
At first glance i thought the EX boss was male. Derp.
I keep seeing keg or beer glass danmaku. I know its drums, but still...
It seems like the last card has that rhythmic element of the survival.


Also, everything about stage 5 is wonderful.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Wind God Guy on August 12, 2013, 08:50:12 am
I love the EX boss, so much swag
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jaimers on August 12, 2013, 09:13:28 am
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21574959

Hard Mode 1cc.

Game looks super tough.   :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: not ZUNs wife on August 12, 2013, 09:34:21 am
It's leaked. But yes, forum rules and all, so I won't condone searching for it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 12, 2013, 09:48:14 am
I bet we'll have videos of all stages NMNB'd and all cards timed out by the time I get home in six hours. B(
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: not ZUNs wife on August 12, 2013, 10:18:19 am
Holy shit stage 5 ghafasada uuiuii is this real life>>>>
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drake on August 12, 2013, 10:29:38 am
Lunatic is fucking brutal.

MarisaB is still broken, just ever-so-slightly less broken.

Shinmyoumaru is half nice half GODAWFUL SHITCAKES WHY WOULD ZUN DO THIS NO NO NO.

music is nice

stage 4b boss best thing ever
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on August 12, 2013, 10:31:51 am
Just played on Easy :v

OMG STAGE 5 CAN'T GET ANY BETTER

And Stage 6 is wat.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: BT on August 12, 2013, 10:48:22 am
I approve the sexiness of this game after seeing it ON HARD. Grinning uncontrollably. Thinking this might take a while to clear without bombs!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: DSveno on August 12, 2013, 10:48:50 am
Goddamn. I don't know I am getting rusty or the game is harder, but I'm struggling to just 1cc Normal.

Also, does the boss change in stage 4 depends on which character you're using? Playing as MarisaA, I got to meet, Benben, was it?
Stage 5 is just, holy shit. It's not just flipping the stage, but also the control.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on August 12, 2013, 10:52:30 am
In Stage 4, playing as the A type leads you to Benben, and playing as the B type leads you to the other one. The same with Extra Stage
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Hatateru on August 12, 2013, 11:09:18 am
I've only just realized, ZUN brought back the stage 4 gimmicks based on playable characters :v

That aside, it was really cool of ZUN to include a Shingeki no Kyojin reference in one of Sukuna's spellcards~
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 12, 2013, 11:21:28 am
Actual Verified info:

Some anti-virus software may report a false alarm with th14.exe.

The game may crash when Stage 4 2nd SC ends on Lunatic.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jaimers on August 12, 2013, 11:22:23 am
Hard 1cc.

Lunatic is pretty nuts. I'd say it's about UFO difficulty for sure if not harder. Kagarou has not been changed at all since the demo either.

In fact lunatic is so hard it's literally impossible.
And with that I mean it crashes every single time on the stage 4 boss's second spellcard.  :X
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Drayen on August 12, 2013, 11:44:58 am
BTW theres only 17 songs.. seems like 21 songs was a troll, im really disappointed now, no overdrives either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Rin Kaenbyou on August 12, 2013, 11:57:08 am
The game crashes for me, is there a full version patch for XP?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Zengeku on August 12, 2013, 12:03:13 pm
After two long years of strife, ZUN finally managed to cook up a launch glitch worse than in Ten Desires. Good job charging money for this ZUN  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on August 12, 2013, 12:09:11 pm
Stage 4 has a pretty cool background, and a spoony bard.

Stage 5 is oh god why ZUN the inverted controls they hurt my soul. :ohdear:

So it was the Final Boss the one on the cover, huh. And based on Issun-boshi, like many predicted. :V

Dat extra boss. :V

So far, I'm pleased with what I see. :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 12, 2013, 12:09:57 pm
Yes, there is an XP patch. I'll upload it soon.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Arcorann on August 12, 2013, 12:14:13 pm
No need:

I seem to remember there being a patch somewhere but I don't remember where it was. Anyway, here's how the Japanese are fixing it:

* Download the software from http://www7.atwiki.jp/win2000/pages/17.html
* Run fcwin2k.exe. There's a checkbox for English.
* In the topmost box select your TH14 executable (the button to the right is Browse, or you can drag it into the box).
* Select "Windows 7" for OS Ver. and press CompatSave.<-- probably unnecessary
* Check the boxes "Checksum" and "Executable" and click Rewrite.

You may have to exit and reopen the program before the last step.

In truth, you can use a hex editor to fix it as well (change the byte at 0x00000170 from 06 -> 04 and in custom.exe change the byte at 0x00000138 from 06 -> 04).
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: HyperGumba on August 12, 2013, 12:16:34 pm
Looks like this is one hell of an easy Ex Stage. Managed to get to the seventh card on my first run, which is amazing compared to my usual two cards in other games on my first try, given the condition I get even through the stage portion.

I was doing decent on my first game, but when I got to the fifth boss, I got screwed up so badly. Quite easy for a fifth stage on Normal, but the suprise made me use up two continues on my first playthrough, since Stage 6 didn't get any easier than this.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Jaimers on August 12, 2013, 12:25:50 pm
Actual Verified info:

Some anti-virus software may report a false alarm with th14.exe.

The game may crash when Stage 4 2nd SC ends on Lunatic.

I tried disabling my anti-virus but the game would still crash after the 2nd card.
It works on Hard and below so I don't see why it wouldn't work on lunatic.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Arcorann on August 12, 2013, 12:44:13 pm
Does this occur with both stage 4 bosses' second spellcards? If not, try switching to the other shot type.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Reddyne on August 12, 2013, 12:46:18 pm
The spell card gimmicks sound so much fun. I haven't had any chance to really see them in action yet, but it sounds like ZUN got pretty creative with them and that's an encouraging sign. Also:

Stage 4 - Benben and Yatsuhashi have instruments with glowing strings with notes and the like that have the same glow.
Stage 5 - Seija has tri-colored hair and a single-layered dress that has 3 different patterns, each with a different color and a ribbon that's upside down just because.
Stage 6 - Shinmyoumaru has a heavily detailed kimono, bent needle, ornate painted mallet, bowl, and... cool rainbow-colored thing that encircles her.
Extra Stage - Raiko's set of drums

Touhou 14 - DDC (Dicking Diligent Cosplayers)
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: The Noodles Guy on August 12, 2013, 12:48:10 pm
Shinmyoumaru is too cute, shame I couldn't get to her in Normal. Seija and her screen flipping spells took out all of my lives.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Wind God Guy on August 12, 2013, 01:00:15 pm
 Man, Marisa B is so brokennns.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: wailofthebanshee on August 12, 2013, 01:09:41 pm
Man, Marisa B is so brokennns.
I was saying this since day 1 of the demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Imosa on August 12, 2013, 01:10:16 pm
So I'm just comparing the sprites that I've seen in the past 24 hours. That would be stage 4,5,6 and extra. The stage 4 characters look different. The hair is smoother.

Also just noticed, good job on Tsukumo Benben's left hand ZUN. That's not the art of someone trying to cover hands with sleeves. Fingers look a little stubby but that's a brave move.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Kingault on August 12, 2013, 01:12:34 pm
Actual Verified info:

Some anti-virus software may report a false alarm with th14.exe.

The game may crash when Stage 4 2nd SC ends on Lunatic.

True. AVG seems to do this for most/all of the thX.exe files.
Better make sure to set up an exception for it. It gets annoying when AVG decides to delete the .exe file.

Ah, there's a patch for the glitch, not related to the antivirus thing, already? Nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on August 12, 2013, 01:16:12 pm
So I checked the sound test and found only 17 tracks.  Does that mean the phantasm stage stuff is false?

Also, what's with the bug of sometimes getting locked in moving in one direction...?  It happened in the demo, and it's still around...  The only way to resolve that is to exit the game entirely...

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: homing curvy laser on August 12, 2013, 01:29:32 pm
Life as a giant seems pretty hard :(
And wow, Shinmyoumaru's theme is amazing, and I love how the same melody plays on stage 6, her fight and the ending.

By the way, apparently you can unlock Extra even if you 1cc the game on Easy :V Slip-up on ZUN's part?
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Mayson on August 12, 2013, 01:32:30 pm
By the way, apparently you can unlock Extra even if you 1cc the game on Easy :V Slip-up on ZUN's part?
Fairie Wars had that, too. He probably does it whenever he deems the normal mode too hard.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: cuc on August 12, 2013, 01:51:47 pm
I see a tool has already been posted. In any case, here's the modified .exe files, and a tiny program that can change any .exe and .dll to Windows XP compatible.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=E04D86FB0C8F489C!130&authkey=!AEJIgBSXBh64QSA
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tsalop on August 12, 2013, 01:58:11 pm
Also, what's with the bug of sometimes getting locked in moving in one direction...?  It happened in the demo, and it's still around...  The only way to resolve that is to exit the game entirely...

Thanks in advance!
Actually I am not sure if there is any way to resolve that... This bug has happened to me in every single Touhou game since EoSD and still does...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: game2011 on August 12, 2013, 02:05:28 pm
It happens in all the Windows games?  Never ran into them until this one...
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: SatorKoi57 on August 12, 2013, 02:08:06 pm
I posted a comment on critz's video.
It got thumbed down because I was "talking shit" about the Stage 6 boss being a loli.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Tsalop on August 12, 2013, 02:12:14 pm
It happens in all the Windows games?  Never ran into them until this one...
Well, to me it has happened... Usually if I leave the game paused for long time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: not ZUNs wife on August 12, 2013, 02:18:10 pm
Also, what's with the bug of sometimes getting locked in moving in one direction...?  It happened in the demo, and it's still around...  The only way to resolve that is to exit the game entirely...

It's not a problem with the games, it's because some computers can't handle many keypresses from certain keys at a time. There's a tool (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=219.0) to remap keys, which helps a bit.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Necrotek on August 12, 2013, 02:22:03 pm
It sounds similar to what I experience sometimes under Wine if I leave the game that long that auto OS lock activates. If I unlock it and try to play, every ~10-15 second I get a control lock (I can't control my character who will fly the same direction before I lost the control) for several seconds so I have to restart the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lreaper9 on August 12, 2013, 02:26:29 pm
Well, overall this game satisfies me.  It's colorful, if not a bit of an odder feel.  However, all the characters have flair, and hits the right notes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: wailofthebanshee on August 12, 2013, 02:30:17 pm
I'm liking this a lot more than the last two.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Lavalake on August 12, 2013, 02:32:41 pm
I was going to say:
"Inb4 the stage 2 boss is the shikigami of the Extra boss who is the shikigami of the Phantasm."
But then everything was revealed way too fast. I only left for some hours.
I really like the extra boss. That beer drum looks nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
Post by: Edible on August 12, 2013, 02:35:18 pm
Since the game is now out and character hype has cooled a bit since they've all been revealed, I'm going to lock this thread and create another.  Please watch warmly etc.